Don’t you see? This is the beginning of the collapse of the insurance industry. Maybe now people will understand how this unregulated giant has been the spine of our prosperity. The Spine that wasn’t visible to the naked eye until the flesh was torn from it. Now you can see how it is connected to every aspect of our living economy. And now, you can see how it is broken and say to yourself “hmmm, I guess it was crucial to our economic survival”.”Can we fix it now?”
Answer with a question, “Have we discovered a medical procedure to cure a broken back, which caused paralysis?”
Liberty – who are you kidding? This is becuase you and all of your Regional Markets have been buying business on the street for 50 cents on the dollar, for about the last 3-4 years!! And now your financials are suspect, and you took a $7 billion gulp that was overpaid for! You’ll likely lose 15-25% of what you bought as you make the switch from Lib Mutual Regional paper to Safeco on P/L, and vice versa on C/L. The best news in this whole thing is that Lib Mutual will be quiet in 2009 – finally! And the rest of us can actually get on to properly pricing business to exposure.
EMC Insurance Group Inc. (Nasdaq: EMCI) today announced that losses associated with Hurricanes Gustav and Ike are expected to range from approximately $8.2 million to $9.0 million, or $0.39 to $.43 per share after tax.
Property and casualty insurer Harleysville Group Inc. – rated A minus by AM Best – said Tuesday that it holds $11 million worth of securities from investment bank Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and mega-insurer American International Group.
Shares of State Auto Financial Corp. fell sharply Monday after an analyst downgraded the insurance company’s stock, calling it overpriced after steep gains last week.
Cincinnati, which still holds securities of American International Group Inc worth about $81 million as of September 15, sees an impairment charge of about $50 million from securities related to the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Cincinnati said it had sold most of the $24 million of Lehman preferred stock and debt securities held at June 30, and expects to take a related charge of $9 million in third quarter.
United Fire & Casualty Co. (UFCS) projected up to $20 million in third-quarter pretax losses from hurricanes Gustav and Ike and added a default by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. (LEHMQ) would cut earnings by another $4 million.
Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services it has lowered its outlook on Selective Insurance Group Inc. and its subsidiaries to negative from stable, citing concerns that recent profitability has not been as strong as the ratings agency expected at the current rating level, as well as the decline in capital adequacy since the end of 2006 and relative to peers.
Big Turtle,
What on earth are you talking about? The insurance industry is coming down? AIG was by every definition a non-standard company, specializing in charging the firestorm of underwriting and investment risk. Liberty has been one of the most active insurers in M&A activity of late. These companies are, at no rate, an indication of an industry’s health. With a slowing in CAT activity (even in a soft market) many companies are quite robust…Today!
hey liberty policy holder…go to geico.com for your free rate quote. I saved…and their day to day business is not tied to investments. I feel good about Buffet being sole owner!!
Has Liberty grown too quickly? Appears the S & P folks are just giving us a heads up on whats to come. I’ll heed that warning and beging to move my business!
The rumors are true! Despite the A- rating, the company has a stable outlook, which is more than I can say for various other companies…..besides, the WA Ins Commissioner wouldn’t give the deal a thumbs up if he didn’t look into this merger closely. Being a strong advocate for the consumer such as he is, he has a tendancy to be overly cautious on these things. Good or bad, it’s a done deal!
I could be wrong, but I don’t believe ANY of the Liberty Mutual direct business is changing any names. I believe what is happening is changes to the Independent channel, aka Agency Markets.
Those marketets, such as America First, will be changing to Safeco for Personal Lines. The Safeco commercial lines will be changing to the Regional Commmercial carrier name.
Right?
So, I would not be concerned with Liberty’s advertising return. There will always be Liberty Mutual policies on the street.
There are several more – especially regionals – that need to be looked at by AM Best and S&P. How does cincy keep their Best rating after all that they have disclosed in 2008? My guess is that AM Best can’t figure out the mess, because cincy can’t even figure it out.
CINCINNATI – Property and casualty insurer Cincinnati Financial Corp. said Tuesday its 2008 results will be hurt by investments in troubled financial institutions Lehman Brothers, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and AIG.
The company said it is making “modest revisions” to its full-year outlook as a consequence of recent events, including the economy’s decline. It said it will disclose more specifics at an investor conference later this week and at investor meetings next week.
Full-year investment income is now expected to decline more than 10 percent from 2007, the company said.
President and CEO Kenneth Stecher also said in the statement that continued pressure on the economy and insurance prices is weighing on its property and casualty business. He said the company’s earlier estimate that full-year 2008 premiums would decline no more than 5 percent now appears overly optimistic, although he did not provide a new estimate.
Boy. That kind of response to a downgrade, blasting the rating agency for (as I read it) being incompetent at what they do, is sure gonna make S&P even more anxious to raise Liberty when things start getting better. Sheesh.
Or was it supposed to be a shot across the bow for the other rating agencies?
I was hired by Liberty Mutual Group to establish their Marine Risk Engineering program in April 2006 for a subsidiary ‘Liberty International Underwriters’ and I can verify that they have been gobbling up opportunities left and right. LIU posted strong earnings repeatedly and suffered no losses during my tenure. I resigned in June 2008 because upper Management treated Risk like it was non-existant. They virtually ignored my pleadings for support which after 1 1/2 years I gave up and moved on.
I know they’re close to their financial limits on coverages and currently have no ‘real’ Risk programs in effect.
If they were to experience multiple large losses they could be in serious trouble. As for the ‘Responsibility’ commercial, I don’t put much faith in its accuracy after witnessing the things I did during my tenure.
hmmm
Don’t you see? This is the beginning of the collapse of the insurance industry. Maybe now people will understand how this unregulated giant has been the spine of our prosperity. The Spine that wasn’t visible to the naked eye until the flesh was torn from it. Now you can see how it is connected to every aspect of our living economy. And now, you can see how it is broken and say to yourself “hmmm, I guess it was crucial to our economic survival”.”Can we fix it now?”
Answer with a question, “Have we discovered a medical procedure to cure a broken back, which caused paralysis?”
Liberty – who are you kidding? This is becuase you and all of your Regional Markets have been buying business on the street for 50 cents on the dollar, for about the last 3-4 years!! And now your financials are suspect, and you took a $7 billion gulp that was overpaid for! You’ll likely lose 15-25% of what you bought as you make the switch from Lib Mutual Regional paper to Safeco on P/L, and vice versa on C/L. The best news in this whole thing is that Lib Mutual will be quiet in 2009 – finally! And the rest of us can actually get on to properly pricing business to exposure.
Hey, I told you that you shouldn’t have raised my premium in this soft market without any reported loss in 10 years!
EMC Insurance Group Inc. (Nasdaq: EMCI) today announced that losses associated with Hurricanes Gustav and Ike are expected to range from approximately $8.2 million to $9.0 million, or $0.39 to $.43 per share after tax.
Property and casualty insurer Harleysville Group Inc. – rated A minus by AM Best – said Tuesday that it holds $11 million worth of securities from investment bank Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and mega-insurer American International Group.
Shares of State Auto Financial Corp. fell sharply Monday after an analyst downgraded the insurance company’s stock, calling it overpriced after steep gains last week.
Cincinnati, which still holds securities of American International Group Inc worth about $81 million as of September 15, sees an impairment charge of about $50 million from securities related to the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Cincinnati said it had sold most of the $24 million of Lehman preferred stock and debt securities held at June 30, and expects to take a related charge of $9 million in third quarter.
United Fire & Casualty Co. (UFCS) projected up to $20 million in third-quarter pretax losses from hurricanes Gustav and Ike and added a default by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. (LEHMQ) would cut earnings by another $4 million.
Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services it has lowered its outlook on Selective Insurance Group Inc. and its subsidiaries to negative from stable, citing concerns that recent profitability has not been as strong as the ratings agency expected at the current rating level, as well as the decline in capital adequacy since the end of 2006 and relative to peers.
Big Turtle,
What on earth are you talking about? The insurance industry is coming down? AIG was by every definition a non-standard company, specializing in charging the firestorm of underwriting and investment risk. Liberty has been one of the most active insurers in M&A activity of late. These companies are, at no rate, an indication of an industry’s health. With a slowing in CAT activity (even in a soft market) many companies are quite robust…Today!
You, sir or madam, are an EGGHEAD!
Big turtle…you just been poned!
hey liberty policy holder…go to geico.com for your free rate quote. I saved…and their day to day business is not tied to investments. I feel good about Buffet being sole owner!!
I hope to live long enough to one day see a company that is man (or woman) enough to take a rating decrease without squealing like a stuck pig.
Has Liberty grown too quickly? Appears the S & P folks are just giving us a heads up on whats to come. I’ll heed that warning and beging to move my business!
cooking the books?
that’s exactly why I switched to GEICO!!!
Hmmm. Could those rumors about Liberty paying agents and extra 5% override through the end of the year be true? Nahhh.
next year when the rates harden for everyone we agents will get a raise
After Safeco bought Am. States it was downgraded to A-. Took them about 3-4 years to get back to A rating. I would look for the same here.
Ok if Liberty is moving P/L to Safeco paper what about the MILLIONS spent on the Ad campaing ie Responsibility (which one awards).
Another thought: How is Liberty Mutual vrs Safeco regarding credit scoring….It might be good news or lousy news when renewal time comes….
Wait and see…..
I think S&P are onto something here..
Liberty is absolutley giving away their business here in the northeast. Cutting prices to the bone!!!!
The rumors are true! Despite the A- rating, the company has a stable outlook, which is more than I can say for various other companies…..besides, the WA Ins Commissioner wouldn’t give the deal a thumbs up if he didn’t look into this merger closely. Being a strong advocate for the consumer such as he is, he has a tendancy to be overly cautious on these things. Good or bad, it’s a done deal!
Dear DC – don’t be so rash to jump to Geico.
I was with the gekko for a year and went from $3,600 to $2,800 AND got another 10% off of both HO policies because I bundled them together.
And that was after esurance made me laugh with a $4,400 quote for the auto.
All in all, LM came through well on a really clean loss record. Anything is possible!
And, what do you mean “unregulated”??? Are you for real? There aren’t too many things that are more regulated than insurance.
Now, I’ll go with you on the interweaving, and very high importance of a healthy insurance market. We are the grease that keeps our economy in motion.
Hmmm…
I could be wrong, but I don’t believe ANY of the Liberty Mutual direct business is changing any names. I believe what is happening is changes to the Independent channel, aka Agency Markets.
Those marketets, such as America First, will be changing to Safeco for Personal Lines. The Safeco commercial lines will be changing to the Regional Commmercial carrier name.
Right?
So, I would not be concerned with Liberty’s advertising return. There will always be Liberty Mutual policies on the street.
There are several more – especially regionals – that need to be looked at by AM Best and S&P. How does cincy keep their Best rating after all that they have disclosed in 2008? My guess is that AM Best can’t figure out the mess, because cincy can’t even figure it out.
CINCINNATI – Property and casualty insurer Cincinnati Financial Corp. said Tuesday its 2008 results will be hurt by investments in troubled financial institutions Lehman Brothers, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and AIG.
The company said it is making “modest revisions” to its full-year outlook as a consequence of recent events, including the economy’s decline. It said it will disclose more specifics at an investor conference later this week and at investor meetings next week.
Full-year investment income is now expected to decline more than 10 percent from 2007, the company said.
President and CEO Kenneth Stecher also said in the statement that continued pressure on the economy and insurance prices is weighing on its property and casualty business. He said the company’s earlier estimate that full-year 2008 premiums would decline no more than 5 percent now appears overly optimistic, although he did not provide a new estimate.
Who is Allianz getting ready to add to the fold? I’ve heard rumblings that they are the next ones to pull the trigger? Who are they looking to buy?
Boy. That kind of response to a downgrade, blasting the rating agency for (as I read it) being incompetent at what they do, is sure gonna make S&P even more anxious to raise Liberty when things start getting better. Sheesh.
Or was it supposed to be a shot across the bow for the other rating agencies?
I was hired by Liberty Mutual Group to establish their Marine Risk Engineering program in April 2006 for a subsidiary ‘Liberty International Underwriters’ and I can verify that they have been gobbling up opportunities left and right. LIU posted strong earnings repeatedly and suffered no losses during my tenure. I resigned in June 2008 because upper Management treated Risk like it was non-existant. They virtually ignored my pleadings for support which after 1 1/2 years I gave up and moved on.
I know they’re close to their financial limits on coverages and currently have no ‘real’ Risk programs in effect.
If they were to experience multiple large losses they could be in serious trouble. As for the ‘Responsibility’ commercial, I don’t put much faith in its accuracy after witnessing the things I did during my tenure.