My mom had Hartford until she was hit with a $900 rate increase on her first renewal. No, I’m not kidding. Mom doesn’t have stellar credit if that’s what they based the increase on, it was no different when she first signed up with them. She does have a clean driving record. Hartford/AARP used to be a good deal for the old crowd. If this is SOP, no wonder they’re in trouble.
I echo Sputnik’s comment. I place alot of manufacturing with Hartford and have a sizeable book. I dislike Travelers and refuse to do business with them. I would not want to be part of Travelers at all, especially since they announced they are goign to be pushing direct sales big time. I am also concerned as I also heard a rumor that another potential buyer is Erie, which they have been tough here in Ohio.
Travelers did not say they were going to push direct “big time” and you seem to have had no problem with Hartford’s AARP. I have Travelers and you should hope it’s Travelers that does the deal as they are great to work with. Erie does not have the capital and will be unable to raise it.
It’s always bad to lose another player…especially one with the name and rep of a Hartford. But this really isn’t that bad of a deal. So if Travelers or Zurich or another national (who has the cash) buys them out…what happens?
What happens is that you have a fairly vanilla book that is now out on the street. Whatever company that buys it will retain maybe half…then the rest will be easlily scooped up by the some 160 other players in the P&C marketplace.
As I said…sad to see Hartford maybe go….but this isn’t an AIG situation where they were the only market for what they did.
And on a side note…..Hartford got greedy people. Their life division sucked the blood out of the P&C side the past few years. Poor, poor management by having life develop to such a position where this could happen. It’s a shame.
Another company/carrier complaining because the way they do business is not profitable. Let’s just dump it, they say is the solution. Baloney. It takes a little innovation, a little CHANGE. But like most financial companies, they are afraid of change. They don’t want to change. They remain inflexible in their thinking. I know of some pretty savy people who would be giant assets to their company, but as long as the company philosophy remains cookie cutter, they will only hire what fits in their thinking. Look where that’s getting them. I suggest a little thinking outside of the box and get back into the business of making money and providing some leadership in the market.
Hartford without P&C is no longer Hartford, just another dime a dozen life company.
Someone here said that if HIG folds some of the other 160 P&C companies will snap up the biz. I see what you are saying but this will be the death of another national carrier.
If you have a risk with operations in 6 states in a few time zones that kicks out just about all the regionals and leaves you with just a few national competitors. This is not good for the marketplace and insureds will feel the hurt on this.
If this is true it sounds like the end of the company to me….they built the company on P&C and it’s sustained it for 199 years. Now the flippin life side is going to kill it and they keep that?
I’m a former Hartford agent who then became a Hartford underwriter. My Hartford stock is pretty close to worthless anyway, guess they might as well fold.
Market Watcher had this one pegged a long time ago – and he/she also predicted all of the problems with West Bend and Selective. Take a look at West Bend just getting nailed with a NEGATIVE by AM Best, and Selective’s stock is in the tank.
After they dumped 90% of their independent agencies in Fla- some, including my agency, had been them since the 20’s. Rewrote a huge chunk of our PAP through AARP directly.
Rates have gone up so they’re not that great this year, but when they did it we couldn’t compete.
Nope. Not shedding a tear after they way they’ve been doing business for the last few years.
What so concerned about? Hartford falls. Kemper is gone. Fireman’s Fund NOTTA. WHERE IS Aetna, ING, Continental ??? And yet, every time a carrier goes bye-bye, agents start crying about having no more choices. Well, for every one that goes bye-bye, about 5 more emerge! Hanover is back. Harleysville is back. Who heard of QBE 5 years ago?!?!? And they are kicking butt !
Why would any carrier that had been selling their reserves for years in a high risk market want to sell in hard times? It’s like Enron making an end run on potential BK proceedings. Commonly known as take the money and run.
My how the pendulum has swung. Ayer got his recognition in the hard GL market of the 80s… too much of a risk taker apparently. Then to introduce a banking model for “sales” and force it onto the underwriting staff having people work late into the night… alienating top talent…
I don’t see Zurich making a play at this time. They have yet to finalize the 21st Century deal. Besides, I’m pretty sure Zurich will have (and has had prior to the capital market issues) its sights set on an east coast regional to complement Farmers, which is primarily mid-west and west.
Atta Girl, That is exactly what the US needs, not just insurance carriers, but everyone needs to begin thinking outside the “that’s the way we always do it” box.
This seems to be as trend for companies from my home town. Aetna and CIGNA sold their P&C side and became Health insurers.
Hartford’s financial services is four times larger than the P&C side and who wants to be in financial services these days. The P&C is the only part of the business worth anything.
Better hope Travelers buys them than Zurich. Remember what Zurich did to Maryland Casualty and every other American company they brought in the past.
Are you ignoring the right-side of your monitor when you read the IJ? Yes, Travlers is writing direct (PPA). As of now they claim the rates are the same as the agent channel. And that’s probably more a function of their inability (in terms of IS & Product Management)to develop a “direct only” product than it is to support the IA channel exclusively. Can’t blame them I guess.
For all of those who are crying about Hartford going bye-bye, don’t worry. The Hartford name will live on; although the arrogant Stag flavored Kool-Aid drinking attitude in the ivory tower might change. They’ll most likely need to learn how to speak German or French! Look for ALLIANZ, and possibly AXA to make a play. I don’t think the Chinese or Japanese will jump in here. This is too big for the Aussies, QBE; but QBE does have their sights set much lower and are looking at a regional on the EAST COAST – hmmmmmm. You’ve read the name here many times.
ALLIANZ will likely keep Fireman’s Fund for big property and national accounts; and Hartford will do AARP stuff and small commercial. Not a bad bag for Allianz. (how many points on that stag??)
I have heard of QBE…here in IL they bought General Casualty, a nice regional insurer out of WI. They do a great job, but I was wondering which east coast regional that Market Watcher was referring to. And no, their rates are a little high in IL. They do some nice stuff on BOPs and their HO product has some nice coverages.
We’re in Alabama, and QBE is great on commercial lines if it fits their program. I write quite a few manufacturing risks with them that Auto Owners wouldn’t touch and QBE has some fantastic rates on contractors GL down here. Haven’t had any personal lines experience w/ them.
No ties to Market Watcher. He’s much better than me at predicting stuff. But if i were a guessing man i would say that QBE is looking hard at Selective or Harleysville. (both East Coast Regionals that would fit what they are looking for?) Selective would make the most sense for them. Especially since Selective has no clue what they want or what direction they are going. But I have no idea.
As for General Casualty in Illinois, they screwed up in their Personal Lines but are tyring to make changes to make it right. I also heard that QBE has been looking at some Personal Lines carriers if they can find a really good platform and automation. That is waht QBE does – they buy !!! And they BUY! And they buy some more !!
General Casualty also screwed up with their contracting strategy in Illinois, but they’ve rebounded in everything else. They are one of our strongest and most consistent carriers, and we’re actually consolidating some books and moving business to GC. Feed them good business, and look out, they’ll start to stretch their appetite and really get tough. QBE wants to grow, but be profitable, and they have very good people!
In IL, I have General Casualty, which is owned by QBE and they do a great job on their HO product. I primarily use them for personal lines along with Erie, and I actually use Erie to write manufacturing, restaurants and they are hard to beat on contractors in IL.
Read the comments made by Presidents or CEO’s of Harleysville and Selective. They are right where they want to be? At a 106 combined and a 101 combined? And Selective claims that it took favorable reserve development to get to their 101. Nice. Readign between the lines. These two are set up for sale.
QBE is tough in Illinois. you are talking about QBE Special Programs? We’ve seen General Casualty tough on some stuff, but it is mostly target program business.
I still believe that Hartford is going to Allianz, and will be the small business arm for Allianz in the U.S. with Fireman’s Fund handling large accounts and national accounts.
Rumor Man. I heard Lib Mutual Regional should have that deal done by 3rd Qtr of 2009? Sorting through Safeco and Indiana mess, and then rolling Harleysville in after acquisition? State Auto isn’t sitting in a ver good position either. But that is no surprise.
Interesting theory. I do wonder if the Red Umbrella will be picking them up for sure. I think they have aspirations of being the next State Farm and have worsening claims service.
I have been an employee for 10years and I have been seeing tenured employees such as myself being let go for unknown reasons. There are too many insignificant chiefs being overly compensated and none of the valued-dedicated employees being compensated. They are way overpriced and they expect us to save clients that are saving $500+ going with other companies!!! LOL!!! (That is part of our performance metric.:((( Like everybody else in the coporated world…no, I don’t feel sorry for them….I am also a victim of foreclosure and a single mother trying to raise a 13year old daughter and still find time for a balanced home life….IMPOSSIBLE with The Hartford!!!
Have one on me! I am very, very disappointed with The Company that I used to be so proud to represent. They even sent our OT to India…absolutely shitty! (I was a victim of our economy and work this job, home based business and raising a teenage daughter.
Can you provide more insight, you being an insider and all? Do you work on the P&C side or the Life side? I always wondered what Hartford’s company culture was like.
I am just very disappointed…it is like they are looking for ways to dispose of tenured employees…perhaps my pension? I transferred over from the P&C agency side to the AARP side….everybody is pricing us out and cancelling their policies. They outsourced our OT to India!!! I am very ashamed of that…if our customers knew 80% of our AARP customers would be out the door in a heartbeat. I am not sure if I should be looking for employment since I am planning on relocating anyways and starting over. I am a 45year old mother trying to survive…I’ve already kissed my 401 goodbye due to trying to save my home which ended up in foreclosure anyways. Like I saw…the fat get fatter and the rich get richer. The Hartford does not put up with questioning their ethics.(
I have been a agent representing The Hartford since 1981. The company is disfunctional and has been for decades. They have this stuck corporate culture that they are the best and do not value agents or employees. Ramani Ayer is totally out of touch with the street, I would hope another carrier will buy them streamline them and make them competitive and change the way they look at their employees and agency partners.
This could be a positive development for employees and agents if they sell to the right company. Liberty? Travelers? Allianz ? State Farm? It would have to be a large carrier with capital and vision.
I can’t see Liberty purchasing TheHartford. Not after they (Liberty) went on that shopping spree scooping up Ohio Casualty and Safeco. Even though it would be a good thing as it would put TheHartford out of its misery.
My mom had Hartford until she was hit with a $900 rate increase on her first renewal. No, I’m not kidding. Mom doesn’t have stellar credit if that’s what they based the increase on, it was no different when she first signed up with them. She does have a clean driving record. Hartford/AARP used to be a good deal for the old crowd. If this is SOP, no wonder they’re in trouble.
Oh boy…
I echo Sputnik’s comment. I place alot of manufacturing with Hartford and have a sizeable book. I dislike Travelers and refuse to do business with them. I would not want to be part of Travelers at all, especially since they announced they are goign to be pushing direct sales big time. I am also concerned as I also heard a rumor that another potential buyer is Erie, which they have been tough here in Ohio.
why would they sell p&c? I don’t get it
Makes you wonder about the overall health of the company when they’re trying to sell their best assets.
Uhhh because they HAVE TO … Holy SCHNAP!
This is crazy … as a Hartford Agent with a substantial amount of small business placements with this carrier … this is highly alarming.
A different carriers UW philosophy will kill this great P&C powerhouse. Kind of like how Liberty Mutual destroyed Golden Eagle [ imho ]
Not good news at all.
Travelers did not say they were going to push direct “big time” and you seem to have had no problem with Hartford’s AARP. I have Travelers and you should hope it’s Travelers that does the deal as they are great to work with. Erie does not have the capital and will be unable to raise it.
It’s always bad to lose another player…especially one with the name and rep of a Hartford. But this really isn’t that bad of a deal. So if Travelers or Zurich or another national (who has the cash) buys them out…what happens?
What happens is that you have a fairly vanilla book that is now out on the street. Whatever company that buys it will retain maybe half…then the rest will be easlily scooped up by the some 160 other players in the P&C marketplace.
As I said…sad to see Hartford maybe go….but this isn’t an AIG situation where they were the only market for what they did.
And on a side note…..Hartford got greedy people. Their life division sucked the blood out of the P&C side the past few years. Poor, poor management by having life develop to such a position where this could happen. It’s a shame.
Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze = Dead
Another company/carrier complaining because the way they do business is not profitable. Let’s just dump it, they say is the solution. Baloney. It takes a little innovation, a little CHANGE. But like most financial companies, they are afraid of change. They don’t want to change. They remain inflexible in their thinking. I know of some pretty savy people who would be giant assets to their company, but as long as the company philosophy remains cookie cutter, they will only hire what fits in their thinking. Look where that’s getting them. I suggest a little thinking outside of the box and get back into the business of making money and providing some leadership in the market.
Turn on your TV Rick, you dont see those Trav commercials talking about their agents do you?
Click on their online adds, everything is DIRECT now….F-them
Heidi…step back from the keyboard…take a deep breath…
That always works for me.
credit scoring & aarp= bad news for a good company
-and if it is Travelers, then you know where that umbrella will be going !
er-yes: you’re right
I guess their little ploy to buy a token S&L in order to stand in line for some taxpayers money didn’t work so well.
Is the IA market drying up?
They do have at least a $2 billion stake in the company.
Hartford without P&C is no longer Hartford, just another dime a dozen life company.
Someone here said that if HIG folds some of the other 160 P&C companies will snap up the biz. I see what you are saying but this will be the death of another national carrier.
If you have a risk with operations in 6 states in a few time zones that kicks out just about all the regionals and leaves you with just a few national competitors. This is not good for the marketplace and insureds will feel the hurt on this.
If this is true it sounds like the end of the company to me….they built the company on P&C and it’s sustained it for 199 years. Now the flippin life side is going to kill it and they keep that?
I’m a former Hartford agent who then became a Hartford underwriter. My Hartford stock is pretty close to worthless anyway, guess they might as well fold.
Market Watcher had this one pegged a long time ago – and he/she also predicted all of the problems with West Bend and Selective. Take a look at West Bend just getting nailed with a NEGATIVE by AM Best, and Selective’s stock is in the tank.
After they dumped 90% of their independent agencies in Fla- some, including my agency, had been them since the 20’s. Rewrote a huge chunk of our PAP through AARP directly.
Rates have gone up so they’re not that great this year, but when they did it we couldn’t compete.
Nope. Not shedding a tear after they way they’ve been doing business for the last few years.
What so concerned about? Hartford falls. Kemper is gone. Fireman’s Fund NOTTA. WHERE IS Aetna, ING, Continental ??? And yet, every time a carrier goes bye-bye, agents start crying about having no more choices. Well, for every one that goes bye-bye, about 5 more emerge! Hanover is back. Harleysville is back. Who heard of QBE 5 years ago?!?!? And they are kicking butt !
Hey, who heard of QBE 5 MINUTES ago?
Not to mention the whole Zurich/Farmers thing…. Don’t look now folks, they ar becoming a big time player around here…
They seemed poised for a huge bump if Hartford folds.
After all we have been through in the past 20 or so years – I am getting depressed. Think I’ll go drink a beer.
Hey, Welcome to the new insurance world that we are living in!!!!!!!
Life is going to be a lot different from now on.
Why would any carrier that had been selling their reserves for years in a high risk market want to sell in hard times? It’s like Enron making an end run on potential BK proceedings. Commonly known as take the money and run.
Maybe Zurich will be interested.
Now if the nationals would stop appointing every agency and becoming a prostitute we might be more concerned…
Don’t all of these companies go out of business because of operations other than P&C?
My how the pendulum has swung. Ayer got his recognition in the hard GL market of the 80s… too much of a risk taker apparently. Then to introduce a banking model for “sales” and force it onto the underwriting staff having people work late into the night… alienating top talent…
Glad I sold my stock last year at $88.
I don’t see Zurich making a play at this time. They have yet to finalize the 21st Century deal. Besides, I’m pretty sure Zurich will have (and has had prior to the capital market issues) its sights set on an east coast regional to complement Farmers, which is primarily mid-west and west.
Gee, maybe Liberty will buy them too! They’ve managed to suck up several companies the past few years.
Atta Girl, That is exactly what the US needs, not just insurance carriers, but everyone needs to begin thinking outside the “that’s the way we always do it” box.
Maybe AIG (sorry AIU) should buy them…I’ve heard they got money
This seems to be as trend for companies from my home town. Aetna and CIGNA sold their P&C side and became Health insurers.
Hartford’s financial services is four times larger than the P&C side and who wants to be in financial services these days. The P&C is the only part of the business worth anything.
Better hope Travelers buys them than Zurich. Remember what Zurich did to Maryland Casualty and every other American company they brought in the past.
Not sure what he’s up to……………
Whats this with Travelers and Direct?
Back the truck up a minute? What can you share with us there … More bad news!
Are you ignoring the right-side of your monitor when you read the IJ? Yes, Travlers is writing direct (PPA). As of now they claim the rates are the same as the agent channel. And that’s probably more a function of their inability (in terms of IS & Product Management)to develop a “direct only” product than it is to support the IA channel exclusively. Can’t blame them I guess.
For all of those who are crying about Hartford going bye-bye, don’t worry. The Hartford name will live on; although the arrogant Stag flavored Kool-Aid drinking attitude in the ivory tower might change. They’ll most likely need to learn how to speak German or French! Look for ALLIANZ, and possibly AXA to make a play. I don’t think the Chinese or Japanese will jump in here. This is too big for the Aussies, QBE; but QBE does have their sights set much lower and are looking at a regional on the EAST COAST – hmmmmmm. You’ve read the name here many times.
ALLIANZ will likely keep Fireman’s Fund for big property and national accounts; and Hartford will do AARP stuff and small commercial. Not a bad bag for Allianz. (how many points on that stag??)
MW,
Interesting…you think QBE is making a play like they did on General Casualty?
Which East Coast regional are you referring to?
Golden Eagle destroyed themselves. They were going into receivership. The state begged LM to take it over.
If you haven’t heard of QBE you need to get on board. You’re missing out on a great product w/ great rates.
Look for Liberty Mutual to snap this up. Or maybe Farmers (Foremost), or even Nationwide to expand their IA channel.
In exactly what zip code is the QBE rating model producing grear rates? Zip codes outside of the USA not allowed.
I have heard of QBE…here in IL they bought General Casualty, a nice regional insurer out of WI. They do a great job, but I was wondering which east coast regional that Market Watcher was referring to. And no, their rates are a little high in IL. They do some nice stuff on BOPs and their HO product has some nice coverages.
I echo his comments…I would actually use Auto-Owners, Erie and GC to kick butt in IL.
We’re in Alabama, and QBE is great on commercial lines if it fits their program. I write quite a few manufacturing risks with them that Auto Owners wouldn’t touch and QBE has some fantastic rates on contractors GL down here. Haven’t had any personal lines experience w/ them.
No ties to Market Watcher. He’s much better than me at predicting stuff. But if i were a guessing man i would say that QBE is looking hard at Selective or Harleysville. (both East Coast Regionals that would fit what they are looking for?) Selective would make the most sense for them. Especially since Selective has no clue what they want or what direction they are going. But I have no idea.
As for General Casualty in Illinois, they screwed up in their Personal Lines but are tyring to make changes to make it right. I also heard that QBE has been looking at some Personal Lines carriers if they can find a really good platform and automation. That is waht QBE does – they buy !!! And they BUY! And they buy some more !!
General Casualty also screwed up with their contracting strategy in Illinois, but they’ve rebounded in everything else. They are one of our strongest and most consistent carriers, and we’re actually consolidating some books and moving business to GC. Feed them good business, and look out, they’ll start to stretch their appetite and really get tough. QBE wants to grow, but be profitable, and they have very good people!
AL Agent,
In IL, I have General Casualty, which is owned by QBE and they do a great job on their HO product. I primarily use them for personal lines along with Erie, and I actually use Erie to write manufacturing, restaurants and they are hard to beat on contractors in IL.
Read the comments made by Presidents or CEO’s of Harleysville and Selective. They are right where they want to be? At a 106 combined and a 101 combined? And Selective claims that it took favorable reserve development to get to their 101. Nice. Readign between the lines. These two are set up for sale.
QBE is tough in Illinois. you are talking about QBE Special Programs? We’ve seen General Casualty tough on some stuff, but it is mostly target program business.
I still believe that Hartford is going to Allianz, and will be the small business arm for Allianz in the U.S. with Fireman’s Fund handling large accounts and national accounts.
Rumor Man. I heard Lib Mutual Regional should have that deal done by 3rd Qtr of 2009? Sorting through Safeco and Indiana mess, and then rolling Harleysville in after acquisition? State Auto isn’t sitting in a ver good position either. But that is no surprise.
Interesting theory. I do wonder if the Red Umbrella will be picking them up for sure. I think they have aspirations of being the next State Farm and have worsening claims service.
I have been an employee for 10years and I have been seeing tenured employees such as myself being let go for unknown reasons. There are too many insignificant chiefs being overly compensated and none of the valued-dedicated employees being compensated. They are way overpriced and they expect us to save clients that are saving $500+ going with other companies!!! LOL!!! (That is part of our performance metric.:((( Like everybody else in the coporated world…no, I don’t feel sorry for them….I am also a victim of foreclosure and a single mother trying to raise a 13year old daughter and still find time for a balanced home life….IMPOSSIBLE with The Hartford!!!
Have one on me! I am very, very disappointed with The Company that I used to be so proud to represent. They even sent our OT to India…absolutely shitty! (I was a victim of our economy and work this job, home based business and raising a teenage daughter.
Hey Honey,
Can you provide more insight, you being an insider and all? Do you work on the P&C side or the Life side? I always wondered what Hartford’s company culture was like.
I am just very disappointed…it is like they are looking for ways to dispose of tenured employees…perhaps my pension? I transferred over from the P&C agency side to the AARP side….everybody is pricing us out and cancelling their policies. They outsourced our OT to India!!! I am very ashamed of that…if our customers knew 80% of our AARP customers would be out the door in a heartbeat. I am not sure if I should be looking for employment since I am planning on relocating anyways and starting over. I am a 45year old mother trying to survive…I’ve already kissed my 401 goodbye due to trying to save my home which ended up in foreclosure anyways. Like I saw…the fat get fatter and the rich get richer. The Hartford does not put up with questioning their ethics.(
I have been a agent representing The Hartford since 1981. The company is disfunctional and has been for decades. They have this stuck corporate culture that they are the best and do not value agents or employees. Ramani Ayer is totally out of touch with the street, I would hope another carrier will buy them streamline them and make them competitive and change the way they look at their employees and agency partners.
This could be a positive development for employees and agents if they sell to the right company. Liberty? Travelers? Allianz ? State Farm? It would have to be a large carrier with capital and vision.
I can’t see Liberty purchasing TheHartford. Not after they (Liberty) went on that shopping spree scooping up Ohio Casualty and Safeco. Even though it would be a good thing as it would put TheHartford out of its misery.
You can stand under my umbrella ella ella…
Don’t wory Hartford, if you choose us, we will take care of you.
Our management at least has a clue.