In the words of Archie Bunker, “would you feel better if they had all been pushed outa winders?”
Check the overall violent crime rates per 100,000 population … you’ll find that violent crime actually is highest in places that have very strict gun laws. Matter of fact, you have to put an asterisk by many of the states with strict gun laws, because IL doesn’t even REPORT all categories of violent crime to the FBI stat-trackers.
Of course, since those statistics don’t further the “Violence Policy Center’s” anti-GUN (note they aren’t really anti-VIOLENCE) agenda, those statistics don’t get mentioned.
For those of you having trouble understanding the flaw in the VPC’s thought process, allow me to use an analogous argument: “medical malpractice deaths would be higher in states where doctors were allowed, versus states where doctors were NOT allowed.” Hmmm …
“VPC is a 501(c)(c) working to reduce violence in America through gun bans and other restrictions on second amendment rights.”
“Gun rights advocates have been critical of the accuracy and scientific validity of VPC’s reports, charding that the conclusions have already been decided regardless of the statistics. They charge that the VPC has a track record of making allegations for which there is no proof”
I’d rather see a further breakdown of the fire-arm related deaths. We don’t really have enough to go on here.
Additional Categories:
– Deaths resulting from use of a firearm while committing another violent crime.
– Deaths resulting from use of a firearm while committing a property crime.
– Deaths resulting from use of a firearm by a member of a known violent organization, gang, etc.
– Deaths resulting from use of a properly registered firearm in the possession on the registered owner.
– Deaths resulting from the accidental discharge of a firearm.
– Deaths resulting from the use of a firearm to defend life or property of an owner.
– Deaths resulting from the use of a firearm by a memeber of the police.
…and finally…
– Deaths of people the world is probably better off without anyway.
Presumably suicide deaths by firearm are included too. Remove the firearm from that equation and what happens? A distressed individual can still kill themselves with a salad fork.
It’s all too easy to blame firearms for violent crime. Thing is I can’t rmember the last time my gun(s) turned on me…
It’s not firearms, it’s people! If firearms were totally banned and confiscated (as improbable as it may be), the people who are committing violent crimes would find another weapon of choice. Just look at the prison system. They make knives out of toothbrushes… should we ban toothbrushes?
Maybe we’ll get good legislation when it is decided where the blame should ultimately go… weapons or the people who use the weapons.
PS – and don’t give me the excuse of innocent children getting ahold of daddy’s gun. Daddy needs to be responsible and obviously he wasn’t.
The US is the only civilized nation that has in excess of 20,000 deaths by firearms in the world! The right to bear arms was written when we were occupied by the British and the Supreme Court was never going to rule that individual gun ownership was unconstitutional. The biggest fact that is ignored is that many guns are purchased legally and re-sold illegally for a profit in states having tough laws like NY. The NRA celebrates the fact that they have successfully worked to get the ban on assault rifles removed. How many more innocent people will die because of the high profits that come from the LEGAL sale of guns that are sold on street corners and dingy apartments. It’s a sick culture.
Ira, how many people died because McDonalds allowed them to eat themselves into cardiac arrest? What about drunk drivers? More people die from drunk driving accidents than guns (people using guns to kill people rather).
Bottom line, if we ban guns, we will have to ban everything else. America = freedom and frankly, it is frightening to know that our freedoms might be taken away.
All in favor of gun control raise your right hand, as in “Zig Heil!” That’s right, the Nazis outlawed guns. In fact look at almost any modern genocide and you’ll see one common factor: the regime in power outlawed and confiscated guns before beginning their slaughter.
Gee! Let’s give all the guns to government! After all, look how they’ve never hurt anybody!
Yeah, and if there were less guns, there would be more knife related deaths. Guns are just tools that insane people can use to kill people. Cars, knives, poison, bats, hammers, very high cliffs, rivers, etc., are also effective tools. lol
I agree this article as presented does not belong in IJ.
With freedom comes risk and responsibility. People who believe gun control is about crime I feel are misled.
I am truly saddened by the turn this country is taking.
Just glad I am old enough to have enjoyed the pleasures of freedom that was fought so hard to preserve over the years and so easily lost in less that one day in November 2008.
Simple logic escapes these people. If you’ve ever know someone who was killed by a gun that was purchased legally but resold illegally, see how you react. All the responses to my initial post solidifies the small mindness of the average gun owner. Can you chew gum at the same time?
Ira, I can understand where you are coming from. I would be upset w/ gun owners as well if someone close to me was killed by a gun, but you fail to understand the logic. If the killer didn’t use a gun, they would have used something else, lol.
Nazis banned guns? Easy there big guy. The Brits and other free, western European nations ban gun ownership too.
The right to bear arms. In the grand scheme of things how important is this really? There are too many guns out there to enact controls. It’s a lost cause. So, I would not worry about your cherished rights. One assault weapons ban leads to the gun companies to make small modifications to get around the ban anyway. There are way too many guns out there for realistic gun control. It is what it is. There are a lot of guns out there and a lot of nut jobs too as well as good responsible people. So, all you good and bad people out there who love there guns, you probably have nothing to worry about. Relax.
I am disappointed in the bias of this article, and the lack of objective reporting. It is not the “simple math” described in the article. The supporting facts behind the VPC’s analysis are controversial at best. Can we at least try to come up with an insurance related tie-in for this article rather than a political soapbox opportunity?
The answer I expected from you all. Small minded, look in a mirror. I’m off to another issue. This is one that many simply will never get because of the bias The one thing we can agree on is it shouldn’t be here in the IJ.
Chill, Chili. If each ethnic in the US committed crimes that were equal to or less than each ethnic group’s percentage of the population, then the US would have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
It’s the people – not the weapons.
UK crime isn’t much lower than that of the US.
Switzerland has the most heavily-armed populace in the world, but one of the world’s lowest crime rates.
Name calling and belittling of fellow insurance professionals instead of basing your argurment on subtance is not very appealing.
Someone has stolen a car and then gets into an accident, Ira’s logic = ban cars.
Someone misuses alcohol and is in a fatal accident, Ira’s logic = ban alcohol.
Here’s a thought..how about prosecuting the criminals based upon the current laws.
BTW-My home was invaded by six gun-weilding teenagers who stole guns from another home but that incident does not disway me from my beliefs and convictions.
What was disturbing was that because they were “juvies’ we received no restitution, they did no jail time, they were never tried under the the current “committing a crime with a gun law”, and did not face federal charges for filing off the serial numbers and defacing of firearms which, according to my understanding, is a prosecutable offense.
Exactly, hence, my posting of silly headlines. The study is meaningless and misleading. Is there any wonder why we get bad laws, when lawmakers site such studies as being the basis for the need for more intrusive, ineffective laws.
To paraphrase Ben Franklin, ‘Those who value security from government over freedome will end up with neither.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, ‘A government that has the power to give to you anything, also has the power to take from you everything.
Joe: You missed my point by a mile. Bringing the Nazis into this argument is lame. I was saying that Britain is a free, not fascist, society and they outlaw guns. Look at Switzerland’s ethnic make up. I would contend that is the reason for the low crime rate, not the fact that the are “armed to the teeth” You gave no stats to back up your contention of Britain’s crime rate by the way.
I also say there are too many guns in this country to enact effective gun control. So we should all move on and accept the fact that the gun lobby here is very strong and there is no good way to control gun ownership. Happy shooting:)
One more e-mail and let’s move on guys! I am deeply disturbed aobut that home invasion and the fac that they were “juvies’ and did no jail time, etc.
I did my time in ‘Nam and belive in this country. I am not against gun ownership as confirmed by the Supreme Court. My point is that too many guns are purchased legally in ‘iron pipline’ states and then re-sold at enormous profits in otehr states such as NY. There needs to be a system in place to provide law enforcement officials at all levels, particularly at the local levels to have access to all gun sales. If purchased as a means for profit, and used in the commission of a crime, the penalties should be severe.
Chill, see Stanford Law Review, Spring of 2007 and Harvard Law Review of Fall 2008. Yes, these bastions of conservatism found that gun control laws don’t have any impact on crime; that states with carry and conceal and/or the most freedom for gun ownership have the lowest crime rates.
Most interestingly, these articles looked at the victims and perpetrators and found that the greatest plurality of gun violence occurs between criminals. In other words, one thug killing another. I’ve no problem with this latter fact.
Move on so that you can get in the last word? Ummm. I believe that it was when I was on the high school debate team that I last was presented with this tactic.
Just one question for those who belive that gun control laws need to be stricter.
If you make the sale of firearms a crime, would guns still be available?
Now let’s see, we made the sale of drugs a crime and that law sure worked.
Bottom line, the only people who would not be able to get a firearm are those law abiding citizens who probably aren’t going down the street shooting at people.
I live in Texas where we are required to have at least 5 guns each by state law. No kidding people here are allowed to pack guns while driving, walking, etc. If someone is trying to steal something you are expected to shoot them. If you don’t kill an intruder you may go to the mental institution. The only things having such loose gun laws does here is prevent and stop crime in its tracks. Maybe y’all need to take a look at the fact most kids here are rifle and pistol qualified at the gun range by Jr. High (12-13 years old). If you teach you children that guns aren’t toys but they do work real well for hunting, target practice, stopping illegals from breaking in and raping your dog, etc. guns are great. Those 3 states listed in the article are composed of a bunch of liberal Obama pantywastes and don’t mean much of anything.
Exactly. A few years ago, a shooting at a W.Va. or Va. law school was stopped, because one of the students went to his car, got his gun, and shot the killer. Of course, only Fox News dealt with the aspect of the shooting.
The same thing happened at a high school in Alabama a few years earlier. The hero was an asst. principal who retrieved his gun from his car and shot the killer.
VT had a very strict gun control policy. If it hadn’t had such a silly policy, either the deranged killer never would’ve tried to commit the massacre, or he would’ve been shot by another student to at least limit the damage.
As the old saying goes: If guns are outlawed, then only the criminals will have guns.
Read the biographies of Mao and Lenin. They fought against gun control as revolutionairies and instituted gun control as leaders.
Communism – over 100M murdered in less than 75 years.
Couldn’t agree more. I took the NRA safety course at age 12.
Also, when I was in high school, we all had shotguns, target pistols, .22 and more powerful weapons in our cars (most of us drove to school) and never had one shooting. Even when two guys got into a fight, no one ever thought of pulling a gun.
VPC Legislative Director Kristen Rand stated, “More guns means more gun death and injury. Fewer guns means less gun death and injury. It’s a simple equation.”
What an outright lie. If that was the case then why is Utah ranked 35th when there are huge numbers of gun owners and concealed weapon permit holders in this state? Answer that Kristen. Better yet get your facts straight. And the only reason seven out of the fifteen states that rank higher than Utah make it almost impossible to own a gun, so naturally their numbers of gun related deaths would be lower. Duh. The bottom line is that if you are going to be a state that values the right to bear arms, i.e., the constitution, then you have got to do thorough background checks, but more importantly you have to punish those that break the law, period. Wake up Kristen, smell the coffee.
The founding fathers were more concerned with the people having a means to defend against their own government if that government became oppressive. In otherwords like what a lot of the jackasses in Washington D.C. seem to be striving to achieve present day.
Enough already before this gets overheated. Everyone had their say and let’s leave it already. Get overly nasty isn’t gonna get your point over. Understand?
This article does not belong in IJ, or anywhere facts are supposedly presented. VPC and their ilk try to stick this same old song anywhere they think people are stupid enough to believe it. Their words are slightly different each time but there are no verifiable facts; there have been many studies that have shown that more lawabiding citizens with guns mean less crime. That being said, people should think about their personal position. If you do not wish to own a gun, I have no quarrel with you but I don’t want you to force anyone else into your position. Let everyone do their own thing. That ‘free country’ thing.
How many homes have “Gun Free Zone” signs on their front door? Far fewer than those with ADT alarm signs, I would wager. Have you ever noticed that there are no headline gathering attacks in places where people are known to carry guns? Do you know why?
President Obama has publicly declared his support for the Second Ammendment and few politicians ran on a gun hater platform in the last election. This was a new position for Obama and he was trying to get elected, but I ‘hope’ he wasn’t lying and won’t ‘change’ his new position. Banning guns is a ‘third rail’ of politics; touch it and pay the price.
The police will always arrive in time to put up the yellow tape that says “Crime Scene”, but until then you are on your own. When someone is kicking in a door or window, there are two sounds that will stop the attack: the sound of a police siren and the ‘kachink’ of a shotgun chambering a round. The ‘kachink’ can be heard between 20 and 50 minutes before the siren sound. It is your choice whether you want to ‘kachink’ or wait for the siren. Please let others make their own choice. We call that ‘freedom of choice’.
When Florida passed the first concealed carry law, the gun haters said there would be more crime, “gunfights at the OK Corral”, “blood running in the streets”, “shootouts in traffic jams”, but alas none of it was true. Now about forty states permit concealed carry, and there are still no bloodbaths caused by permit holders. Florida passed the carry law in ‘self defense’ because tourists were being robbed and that is bad for business. Smart politicians in Florida.
Move on if you like; far be it from me to tell you to do it. Do your own thing. Let everyone else do theirs. Believe what you want to believe, but leave everyone else out of it. Pass no more laws that make no sense. Peace, brothers and sisters.
I will forgive IJ for publishing this junk article. Please, don’t make it a habit because we already have lots of other sources for this kind of gun hater junk. The other sources are the ones that are currently in financial trouble because of a lack of readership. Please stick to facts and insurance where you are the best.
I like the part about shooting the illegals raping your dog. They need to be shot especially if it’s one of your hunting dogs. Nothing worse than an illegal raping your dog. This is a great use for your guns.
IrA, please back up your 20,000 to 30,000 deaths a year statistic by quoting the source, page, paragraph(s), and give a complete statistical description of the input data. Please use something that is not part of the VPC or any other gun-hater group. Even if your numbers are true (which they are not) keep in mind that more people than that die from auto accidents each year, but we still have not banned cars. There are lots of countries that have or had higher gun deaths than the numbers that you cite and guns were banned there.
I have one question for you and you must answer it “yes” or “no”, you may not use any qualifiers or “buts”.
Here is the scenario: I am walking down the street late at night. It is really dark and two guys are beating you with baseball bats. You fall down but they keep beating you. It appears that you will soon be beaten to death if you are not already dead. I am carrying a concealed gun and could easily stop the brutality simply by displaying my gun and telling the guys to back off.
Here is the question: Should I get involved and try to save your life? Remember, you must answer yes or no. If you say anything else, you lose. If you do not answer the question, you lose.
It’s clear to me from your last post as to why you favor gun control. You are a very angry person with hate for conservatives that certainly is sociopathic, if not psychotic; however, Ira, most people don’t have your deepseated anger and psychosis. In my opinion, you couldn’t and shouldn’t be allowed to own any weapon more deadly than a wet string.
Also, in my opinion, your type of spewing isn’t dialogue, but just plain hate and anger typical of someone with your supposedly liberal views, which views aren’t liberal in the classic sense, but simply totalitarian (which is both or either fascist or communist – they’re the same).
Should your health plan include mental health coverage, I would suggest that you please avail yourself of this coverage.
I’m getting sick of the all the comments being left here. This is the only civilized (use that term roughly) country that has 20,000-30,000 gun deaths a year. The gun culture in this country is a deeply entrenched psychosis. The way people totally look over the all these deaths and look at the NRA as gospel have shown them for the venom spewing, nasty fools they are. I voted for Obama as I voted for Bush teh first time out. Teh fomer needs a chance to make a fresh start, the latter is a total idiot who can’t even speak properly. Next time, get Limbaugh to run. That fat gasbag drug user has made millions on his hate platform
While I like the fact that this piece shows numbers that are being used instead of relying on opinion and bias, the conclusions that higher gun ownership leads to higher gun-related deaths is faulty. Nevada, the state listed as having the 5th highest gun-related death rate, has a gun ownership rate of just over 30%, far less than other states where gun deaths are much lower. That fact from the very same VPC press release just “happened” to be neglected in many of the articles based on the findings. Gun-related deaths also include police-involved shootings, another fact which is often overlooked.
More states are enacting right-to-carry laws in the recent years, and the violent crime rates committed with firearms have dropped by almost 50%. These are facts based on published statistics, and I don’t need to leave out information to make it look impressive or sensational. Gun ownership does not directly relate to gun deaths.
In the words of Archie Bunker, “would you feel better if they had all been pushed outa winders?”
Check the overall violent crime rates per 100,000 population … you’ll find that violent crime actually is highest in places that have very strict gun laws. Matter of fact, you have to put an asterisk by many of the states with strict gun laws, because IL doesn’t even REPORT all categories of violent crime to the FBI stat-trackers.
Of course, since those statistics don’t further the “Violence Policy Center’s” anti-GUN (note they aren’t really anti-VIOLENCE) agenda, those statistics don’t get mentioned.
For those of you having trouble understanding the flaw in the VPC’s thought process, allow me to use an analogous argument: “medical malpractice deaths would be higher in states where doctors were allowed, versus states where doctors were NOT allowed.” Hmmm …
Per Wikipedia:
“VPC is a 501(c)(c) working to reduce violence in America through gun bans and other restrictions on second amendment rights.”
“Gun rights advocates have been critical of the accuracy and scientific validity of VPC’s reports, charding that the conclusions have already been decided regardless of the statistics. They charge that the VPC has a track record of making allegations for which there is no proof”
I’d rather see a further breakdown of the fire-arm related deaths. We don’t really have enough to go on here.
Additional Categories:
– Deaths resulting from use of a firearm while committing another violent crime.
– Deaths resulting from use of a firearm while committing a property crime.
– Deaths resulting from use of a firearm by a member of a known violent organization, gang, etc.
– Deaths resulting from use of a properly registered firearm in the possession on the registered owner.
– Deaths resulting from the accidental discharge of a firearm.
– Deaths resulting from the use of a firearm to defend life or property of an owner.
– Deaths resulting from the use of a firearm by a memeber of the police.
…and finally…
– Deaths of people the world is probably better off without anyway.
Presumably suicide deaths by firearm are included too. Remove the firearm from that equation and what happens? A distressed individual can still kill themselves with a salad fork.
BAN ALL SALAD FORKS NOW!
It’s all too easy to blame firearms for violent crime. Thing is I can’t rmember the last time my gun(s) turned on me…
It’s not firearms, it’s people! If firearms were totally banned and confiscated (as improbable as it may be), the people who are committing violent crimes would find another weapon of choice. Just look at the prison system. They make knives out of toothbrushes… should we ban toothbrushes?
Maybe we’ll get good legislation when it is decided where the blame should ultimately go… weapons or the people who use the weapons.
PS – and don’t give me the excuse of innocent children getting ahold of daddy’s gun. Daddy needs to be responsible and obviously he wasn’t.
Are you kidding me? Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. If they start banning gun possession, then what’s next? Cars, medicine, fast food?
I fear this is going to get worse w/ the current administration. Say bye bye to our right to bear arms.
Yay for more Gov’t control!
The US is the only civilized nation that has in excess of 20,000 deaths by firearms in the world! The right to bear arms was written when we were occupied by the British and the Supreme Court was never going to rule that individual gun ownership was unconstitutional. The biggest fact that is ignored is that many guns are purchased legally and re-sold illegally for a profit in states having tough laws like NY. The NRA celebrates the fact that they have successfully worked to get the ban on assault rifles removed. How many more innocent people will die because of the high profits that come from the LEGAL sale of guns that are sold on street corners and dingy apartments. It’s a sick culture.
This article is a bunch of crap. It shouldn’t be in the IJ. It has nothing to do with insurance.
The VPC are a bunch of anti-gun pussies!
Ira, how many people died because McDonalds allowed them to eat themselves into cardiac arrest? What about drunk drivers? More people die from drunk driving accidents than guns (people using guns to kill people rather).
Bottom line, if we ban guns, we will have to ban everything else. America = freedom and frankly, it is frightening to know that our freedoms might be taken away.
NRA Bob; you are so right on!
All in favor of gun control raise your right hand, as in “Zig Heil!” That’s right, the Nazis outlawed guns. In fact look at almost any modern genocide and you’ll see one common factor: the regime in power outlawed and confiscated guns before beginning their slaughter.
Gee! Let’s give all the guns to government! After all, look how they’ve never hurt anybody!
Are the findings of this “study” that states with higher gun ownership rates have higher gun-related death rates? That seems kind of obvious to me!
Yeah, and if there were less guns, there would be more knife related deaths. Guns are just tools that insane people can use to kill people. Cars, knives, poison, bats, hammers, very high cliffs, rivers, etc., are also effective tools. lol
I agree this article as presented does not belong in IJ.
With freedom comes risk and responsibility. People who believe gun control is about crime I feel are misled.
I am truly saddened by the turn this country is taking.
Just glad I am old enough to have enjoyed the pleasures of freedom that was fought so hard to preserve over the years and so easily lost in less that one day in November 2008.
So they spent money on this Dumb *** Study?
Simple logic escapes these people. If you’ve ever know someone who was killed by a gun that was purchased legally but resold illegally, see how you react. All the responses to my initial post solidifies the small mindness of the average gun owner. Can you chew gum at the same time?
Ira, I can understand where you are coming from. I would be upset w/ gun owners as well if someone close to me was killed by a gun, but you fail to understand the logic. If the killer didn’t use a gun, they would have used something else, lol.
I think it is you who is small minded.
Nazis banned guns? Easy there big guy. The Brits and other free, western European nations ban gun ownership too.
The right to bear arms. In the grand scheme of things how important is this really? There are too many guns out there to enact controls. It’s a lost cause. So, I would not worry about your cherished rights. One assault weapons ban leads to the gun companies to make small modifications to get around the ban anyway. There are way too many guns out there for realistic gun control. It is what it is. There are a lot of guns out there and a lot of nut jobs too as well as good responsible people. So, all you good and bad people out there who love there guns, you probably have nothing to worry about. Relax.
What dribble. States with the most miles drive also have the highest accidents/fatalities.
I am disappointed in the bias of this article, and the lack of objective reporting. It is not the “simple math” described in the article. The supporting facts behind the VPC’s analysis are controversial at best. Can we at least try to come up with an insurance related tie-in for this article rather than a political soapbox opportunity?
I didn’t need a study to figure out this one.
The answer I expected from you all. Small minded, look in a mirror. I’m off to another issue. This is one that many simply will never get because of the bias The one thing we can agree on is it shouldn’t be here in the IJ.
Chill, Chili. If each ethnic in the US committed crimes that were equal to or less than each ethnic group’s percentage of the population, then the US would have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
It’s the people – not the weapons.
UK crime isn’t much lower than that of the US.
Switzerland has the most heavily-armed populace in the world, but one of the world’s lowest crime rates.
We expected that answer from you as well… calling others small minded, when you had nothing really to back up your opinion.
Yes this should not be in IJ, what the heck were they thinking.
Correcting my prior headline posting. This is the one I figured out on my own w/o a study.
Ira:
Your left wing rhetoric is showing.
Name calling and belittling of fellow insurance professionals instead of basing your argurment on subtance is not very appealing.
Someone has stolen a car and then gets into an accident, Ira’s logic = ban cars.
Someone misuses alcohol and is in a fatal accident, Ira’s logic = ban alcohol.
Here’s a thought..how about prosecuting the criminals based upon the current laws.
BTW-My home was invaded by six gun-weilding teenagers who stole guns from another home but that incident does not disway me from my beliefs and convictions.
What was disturbing was that because they were “juvies’ we received no restitution, they did no jail time, they were never tried under the the current “committing a crime with a gun law”, and did not face federal charges for filing off the serial numbers and defacing of firearms which, according to my understanding, is a prosecutable offense.
Exactly, hence, my posting of silly headlines. The study is meaningless and misleading. Is there any wonder why we get bad laws, when lawmakers site such studies as being the basis for the need for more intrusive, ineffective laws.
To paraphrase Ben Franklin, ‘Those who value security from government over freedome will end up with neither.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, ‘A government that has the power to give to you anything, also has the power to take from you everything.
Joe: You missed my point by a mile. Bringing the Nazis into this argument is lame. I was saying that Britain is a free, not fascist, society and they outlaw guns. Look at Switzerland’s ethnic make up. I would contend that is the reason for the low crime rate, not the fact that the are “armed to the teeth” You gave no stats to back up your contention of Britain’s crime rate by the way.
I also say there are too many guns in this country to enact effective gun control. So we should all move on and accept the fact that the gun lobby here is very strong and there is no good way to control gun ownership. Happy shooting:)
One more e-mail and let’s move on guys! I am deeply disturbed aobut that home invasion and the fac that they were “juvies’ and did no jail time, etc.
I did my time in ‘Nam and belive in this country. I am not against gun ownership as confirmed by the Supreme Court. My point is that too many guns are purchased legally in ‘iron pipline’ states and then re-sold at enormous profits in otehr states such as NY. There needs to be a system in place to provide law enforcement officials at all levels, particularly at the local levels to have access to all gun sales. If purchased as a means for profit, and used in the commission of a crime, the penalties should be severe.
Now that makes sense. I agree w/ your logic. GJ
Chill, see Stanford Law Review, Spring of 2007 and Harvard Law Review of Fall 2008. Yes, these bastions of conservatism found that gun control laws don’t have any impact on crime; that states with carry and conceal and/or the most freedom for gun ownership have the lowest crime rates.
Most interestingly, these articles looked at the victims and perpetrators and found that the greatest plurality of gun violence occurs between criminals. In other words, one thug killing another. I’ve no problem with this latter fact.
Move on so that you can get in the last word? Ummm. I believe that it was when I was on the high school debate team that I last was presented with this tactic.
USMC 1969 – 1977
7th Marines
9th Marines
USNB, MCSF, Philly
Just one question for those who belive that gun control laws need to be stricter.
If you make the sale of firearms a crime, would guns still be available?
Now let’s see, we made the sale of drugs a crime and that law sure worked.
Bottom line, the only people who would not be able to get a firearm are those law abiding citizens who probably aren’t going down the street shooting at people.
I live in Texas where we are required to have at least 5 guns each by state law. No kidding people here are allowed to pack guns while driving, walking, etc. If someone is trying to steal something you are expected to shoot them. If you don’t kill an intruder you may go to the mental institution. The only things having such loose gun laws does here is prevent and stop crime in its tracks. Maybe y’all need to take a look at the fact most kids here are rifle and pistol qualified at the gun range by Jr. High (12-13 years old). If you teach you children that guns aren’t toys but they do work real well for hunting, target practice, stopping illegals from breaking in and raping your dog, etc. guns are great. Those 3 states listed in the article are composed of a bunch of liberal Obama pantywastes and don’t mean much of anything.
Exactly. A few years ago, a shooting at a W.Va. or Va. law school was stopped, because one of the students went to his car, got his gun, and shot the killer. Of course, only Fox News dealt with the aspect of the shooting.
The same thing happened at a high school in Alabama a few years earlier. The hero was an asst. principal who retrieved his gun from his car and shot the killer.
VT had a very strict gun control policy. If it hadn’t had such a silly policy, either the deranged killer never would’ve tried to commit the massacre, or he would’ve been shot by another student to at least limit the damage.
As the old saying goes: If guns are outlawed, then only the criminals will have guns.
Read the biographies of Mao and Lenin. They fought against gun control as revolutionairies and instituted gun control as leaders.
Communism – over 100M murdered in less than 75 years.
Couldn’t agree more. I took the NRA safety course at age 12.
Also, when I was in high school, we all had shotguns, target pistols, .22 and more powerful weapons in our cars (most of us drove to school) and never had one shooting. Even when two guys got into a fight, no one ever thought of pulling a gun.
People kill people, not weapons.
VPC Legislative Director Kristen Rand stated, “More guns means more gun death and injury. Fewer guns means less gun death and injury. It’s a simple equation.”
What an outright lie. If that was the case then why is Utah ranked 35th when there are huge numbers of gun owners and concealed weapon permit holders in this state? Answer that Kristen. Better yet get your facts straight. And the only reason seven out of the fifteen states that rank higher than Utah make it almost impossible to own a gun, so naturally their numbers of gun related deaths would be lower. Duh. The bottom line is that if you are going to be a state that values the right to bear arms, i.e., the constitution, then you have got to do thorough background checks, but more importantly you have to punish those that break the law, period. Wake up Kristen, smell the coffee.
The founding fathers were more concerned with the people having a means to defend against their own government if that government became oppressive. In otherwords like what a lot of the jackasses in Washington D.C. seem to be striving to achieve present day.
Government should fear incurring the wrath of its people, not visa versa.
Enough already before this gets overheated. Everyone had their say and let’s leave it already. Get overly nasty isn’t gonna get your point over. Understand?
This article does not belong in IJ, or anywhere facts are supposedly presented. VPC and their ilk try to stick this same old song anywhere they think people are stupid enough to believe it. Their words are slightly different each time but there are no verifiable facts; there have been many studies that have shown that more lawabiding citizens with guns mean less crime. That being said, people should think about their personal position. If you do not wish to own a gun, I have no quarrel with you but I don’t want you to force anyone else into your position. Let everyone do their own thing. That ‘free country’ thing.
How many homes have “Gun Free Zone” signs on their front door? Far fewer than those with ADT alarm signs, I would wager. Have you ever noticed that there are no headline gathering attacks in places where people are known to carry guns? Do you know why?
President Obama has publicly declared his support for the Second Ammendment and few politicians ran on a gun hater platform in the last election. This was a new position for Obama and he was trying to get elected, but I ‘hope’ he wasn’t lying and won’t ‘change’ his new position. Banning guns is a ‘third rail’ of politics; touch it and pay the price.
The police will always arrive in time to put up the yellow tape that says “Crime Scene”, but until then you are on your own. When someone is kicking in a door or window, there are two sounds that will stop the attack: the sound of a police siren and the ‘kachink’ of a shotgun chambering a round. The ‘kachink’ can be heard between 20 and 50 minutes before the siren sound. It is your choice whether you want to ‘kachink’ or wait for the siren. Please let others make their own choice. We call that ‘freedom of choice’.
When Florida passed the first concealed carry law, the gun haters said there would be more crime, “gunfights at the OK Corral”, “blood running in the streets”, “shootouts in traffic jams”, but alas none of it was true. Now about forty states permit concealed carry, and there are still no bloodbaths caused by permit holders. Florida passed the carry law in ‘self defense’ because tourists were being robbed and that is bad for business. Smart politicians in Florida.
Move on if you like; far be it from me to tell you to do it. Do your own thing. Let everyone else do theirs. Believe what you want to believe, but leave everyone else out of it. Pass no more laws that make no sense. Peace, brothers and sisters.
I will forgive IJ for publishing this junk article. Please, don’t make it a habit because we already have lots of other sources for this kind of gun hater junk. The other sources are the ones that are currently in financial trouble because of a lack of readership. Please stick to facts and insurance where you are the best.
Just something to think about.
Consider the source before believing anything from the Brady Bunch!!!
Ira,
I bet you voted for Obama and like the job he is doing.
I like the part about shooting the illegals raping your dog. They need to be shot especially if it’s one of your hunting dogs. Nothing worse than an illegal raping your dog. This is a great use for your guns.
IrA, please back up your 20,000 to 30,000 deaths a year statistic by quoting the source, page, paragraph(s), and give a complete statistical description of the input data. Please use something that is not part of the VPC or any other gun-hater group. Even if your numbers are true (which they are not) keep in mind that more people than that die from auto accidents each year, but we still have not banned cars. There are lots of countries that have or had higher gun deaths than the numbers that you cite and guns were banned there.
I have one question for you and you must answer it “yes” or “no”, you may not use any qualifiers or “buts”.
Here is the scenario: I am walking down the street late at night. It is really dark and two guys are beating you with baseball bats. You fall down but they keep beating you. It appears that you will soon be beaten to death if you are not already dead. I am carrying a concealed gun and could easily stop the brutality simply by displaying my gun and telling the guys to back off.
Here is the question: Should I get involved and try to save your life? Remember, you must answer yes or no. If you say anything else, you lose. If you do not answer the question, you lose.
Ira,
It’s clear to me from your last post as to why you favor gun control. You are a very angry person with hate for conservatives that certainly is sociopathic, if not psychotic; however, Ira, most people don’t have your deepseated anger and psychosis. In my opinion, you couldn’t and shouldn’t be allowed to own any weapon more deadly than a wet string.
Also, in my opinion, your type of spewing isn’t dialogue, but just plain hate and anger typical of someone with your supposedly liberal views, which views aren’t liberal in the classic sense, but simply totalitarian (which is both or either fascist or communist – they’re the same).
Should your health plan include mental health coverage, I would suggest that you please avail yourself of this coverage.
God bless you. I’ll pray for your recovery.
I would like to vote for IrA. I vote just leave his dumbass there to get beat to death with the bats. Since he didn’t vote screw em!
I’m getting sick of the all the comments being left here. This is the only civilized (use that term roughly) country that has 20,000-30,000 gun deaths a year. The gun culture in this country is a deeply entrenched psychosis. The way people totally look over the all these deaths and look at the NRA as gospel have shown them for the venom spewing, nasty fools they are. I voted for Obama as I voted for Bush teh first time out. Teh fomer needs a chance to make a fresh start, the latter is a total idiot who can’t even speak properly. Next time, get Limbaugh to run. That fat gasbag drug user has made millions on his hate platform
While I like the fact that this piece shows numbers that are being used instead of relying on opinion and bias, the conclusions that higher gun ownership leads to higher gun-related deaths is faulty. Nevada, the state listed as having the 5th highest gun-related death rate, has a gun ownership rate of just over 30%, far less than other states where gun deaths are much lower. That fact from the very same VPC press release just “happened” to be neglected in many of the articles based on the findings. Gun-related deaths also include police-involved shootings, another fact which is often overlooked.
More states are enacting right-to-carry laws in the recent years, and the violent crime rates committed with firearms have dropped by almost 50%. These are facts based on published statistics, and I don’t need to leave out information to make it look impressive or sensational. Gun ownership does not directly relate to gun deaths.