Is it true that the Chinese are funding the war and we are somewhat indebted to them?
If true, I wonder what the Govt is going to do about the drywall issue. Will the insurance companies be made to pay anyway, regardless of policy exclusions?
I agree with the other poster who mentioned asbestos. Were the installers at risk? Here we go with the BI claims.
The law office of Atty Sokolov is already making TV commercials for future airing.
Down here in SoFl, lawyers are gearing up to fight this monster. But I think they are going after a very dry well.
1. Assuming that the GCs have the right insurance is one thing, but how many GCs have folded up shop by now?
2. Subcontractors have been getting squeezed for years by the GCs as a result many do not have GL or WC or workers with a SS#. So after years of suppling fake COIs to GCs (who looked the other way out of greed)Many of these sub contractos do not even have insurance, and most like the GCs have folded up thier tents and moved away.
3. Ditto the building supply centers that provided the drywall, unless they are Loews or Home Depot, they will also go belly up before paying big judgements.
Lawyers cannot sue what is not there….
And finnally, observing the mish mash of GCs Subs, Subs of Subs and Subs of Subs of Subs who brought along some guy…., who is going to be able to unwind all of that to prove that x contractor installed x drywall into the house at 1234 Evergreen Lane?
I am afraid that these homeowners will never see a penny, and be stuck with a house that needs more in repairs then it is actually worth.
Yep’n, them Republicans are always right. Need to cut taxes, so we need to cut back on regulation–don’t need no fancy gummint regulators. Don’t need no big gummint. But, gol dang it, a bunch of this junk came in from overseas, dumped on our free market by them furriners.
And then there’s that access to courts and justice thing. We don’t need no big plaintiff lawyers clogging up our system. (Actually, we know its true that business vs. business litigation is what clogs our courts, but beating up on plaintiff attorneys is easier and gets that ‘motional response we need to control the electorate).
But, what? You mean our state regulators (states’ rights are big with ‘Publicans, sort of resonates with that Confederate flag, race-baiting thing we like) have let us down on inshorance regulation? And those Republican judges all the way up to the Supreme Court routinely favor big capital and big companies over little companies? We aint got none of that legal recourse comin’ to us? My company, my life’s work is gone?
Maybe we should start rethinkin’ what’s been going on since that Reagan fellow told us we were special ’cause were we were ‘Mericans and were entitled and could buy anything we wanted (using money borrowed from those same furriners to buy these fancy McMansions with the bad wallboard inside–ouch, my head hurts!!) and didn’t have to work so hard…
So how many of the GC’s that have gone out of business will now become CDI’s (Chinese Drywall Inspectors) Charge $250 to inspect a home for sulphur ridden drywall and tarnishing metal and then offer to replace the drywall for the homeowner. No coverage will likely be found under most policies in Florida at least, and there are thousands that are out there that need gutted. This could have been a conspiracy by the builders to create a need for additional work down the road or it may be a way for the Obama administration to put more people to work, by making others sick.
Ok, for real now. THis is going to be like a mini asbestos problem that goes on for years. The real estate contract will likely need a disclaimer that the drywall is not contaminated and the home inspectors will now have something else to look for and collect an additioanl fee for and the lawyers get rich once again at the cost of someone else.
And, Hyena, if higher taxes meant a more EFFECTIVE government, we might not be so against them but…… it doesn’t. Way to “profile” Republicans, you bigot. The Cambridge police department would be soooo proud of you.
Dear Hyena,
Yall mut be Dimicrat MOORON. cause we all knows dat all de McMansions gone bak to de banks cause of dis OBAMA iconimi. jes weight for govmint healthcre! I is a Puplik scool gradiate.
The hyena is non-partisan but merely empirical and feasts on rot while laughing!
As for criticisms “bring’em on.”
Maybe people will wake up from the Reagan slumber and realize the world is passing the indolent, poorly educated, spoiled, arrogant and poorly led U.S. by. It is not a partisan issue. It’s an American survival issue, although the Republicans, now reduced to a small, racist, regional party, filled with courtly manners, quaint accents, yet bereft of ideas that will do any good, did and currently do a great job of screwing up the country–unprecedented. As Mr. Rogers would say–Can you say Yes? There, I knew that you couldn’t.
Good work, y’all. Looking forward to Say-rah finishing the job and leading us off that final cliff. As Colbert says, commenting on textbook revisions by Christianists in Texas, two and five don’t have to equal seven. No! Not if you’re Jesus!
Republicans are racists. What an intelligent statement. When did Barbara Boxer switch parties? If Democrats give a rip about poor people, the little guy (however, you’d like to characterize them), why have they not won The War on Poverty? Answer: Because they keep promising wealth for votes and the underclass continue to buy it, in spite of the fact that the message is now crossed generations. Dems aren’t necessarily educated. They just have ZERO shame when it comes to selling people (including illegal aliens) a bill of goods.
Thanks Hyena for proving without a doubt that stupidity knows no bounds. Your moronic assessment of people with thoughts and beliefs other than your own shows your bigotry and inability to have a rational discussion of the issues and facts. Keep your stupidity to yourself as I for one am sick of hearing self righteous idiots like yourself preach the “gospel”.
If government wanted to change anything they could do it. After all…they are the ones who wrote and passed all of the stupidity we are living with now. So, I don’t care if you are republican, democrat, independent or any other party you can name, there are 545 of them and millions of us and we just sit back and let them tell us what to do. Stop buying cheap goods (you get what you pay for) and start being a nation that produces what it needs again, with quality control. If you don’t produce something worth buying you go out of business and someone who will produce a good product takes your place.
Hyena, you’ve written some of the best stuff I’ve seen posted in a while. Keep it coming!
Brokette, you were quick to rip Hyena apart for calling Republicans racist, but I didn’t see an equal comment directed at griff123 for calling Dems morons. Not very educated of you…
MeMe, I agree that this country needs to get on the ball when it comes to creating more affordable, quality goods. However, it’s naive to think that we can live in a self-sufficient bubble without imports/exports. What I’m stumped over is how lead and toxin-filled products from China keep making across our borders and into our homes? Where’s the regulation on this stuff?
OH, you mean the regulation that our government has for importing cheap goods that kill us. If Americans continue to buy this crap, they will keep shipping it here. Here a task that you will probably not be able to complete. Go to any store and try to find something that is made out of metal that is made in America. Or any article of clothing that is made here, or an electronic device, hell even the automobiles that are assembled here have foreign made parts. The simple answer is those countries are willing to do it cheap and we are lazy fargin bastages. Why do we allow anything imported from China, after the melamine contamination, the posion toothpaste, the lead paint and toys that are contaminated with poisons and drywall is NOT the last thing we will hear of. The answer is money. And don’t think for a minute that the democrats are equally responsible for anything that has happened to this country. They are all liars they just have to different conventions. Obama sure has not done anything to stop the import of Chinese goods that will kill us or make us sick and he DAMM sure ain’t not publican.
It’s all my fault.
But ain’t it great Obamie has to deal with it. And that ol girl Pelosi, she gets more crap imported to Califormia than anywhere else is the US. Bet her Mcmansion doesn’t have non of this smelly wall board in it, she knows to buy non chinese stuff.
Way to go Brokette,
Hyena sounds more like a member of ACORN or the SEUI then an Insurance person. By the way the Goverment school system and the Teachers union is the reason we have such an undereducated youth today and have you seen the College curriculem lately? Don’t throw any7 anti union garbage at me hyena – I am a former Teamster and I know unions first hand. The Good ones are ok the bad one like the SEUI and the Teachers are horrible.Barbara Boxer the dumbest person in Washington D.C. and a Racist. Stop throwing around negatives and work for true reform in our country.
You sound more like a Hyena than not! A doglike carnivore of the family Hyaenidae, of Africa, southwestern Asia, and south central Asia, having a coarse coat, a sloping back, and large teeth and feeding chiefly on carrion, often in packs. Sounds just like a democrat to me.
This is typical for the Chinese. They have no regard for their own safety with regards to pollution so I would never expect them to provide exports that are any better. I have no issue with importing what we need. We just have to know the source.
Sounds like profiling to me.
Hyena will start in about that if your not careful. I can see it now, “Racism, its not just about the black, but also the Chinese”.
Hey, wasn’t there a story this weekend where a black man was breaking into his own house with a crowbar, and the neighbors called the police ? And the nice white police offer responded and the black man acted like a J*C*A*S, refusing to provide ID. And Obama said “I don’t have the facts but that police officer was STUPID”. Sounds like Bama is the racist to me!
Out of all these comments maybe three of them are on point about the drywall. I hate politics and the political fighting that goes on in this comment section. I’m just a lowly claim adjuster trying to keep up on things that affect my job. Can’t we find somewhere else for the political diatribes and stick to the insurance issues. I do want to give a thumbs up to Jim for the Johnny Dangerously reference. Great Movie.
In this case, it turned political because the hyena immediately blamed the Republicans for defective Chinese products. I think he blamed Reagan.
On point though, this one will be good for defense counsel. If I were a targeted GC or Sub, I think I’d be shutting my business down, and reopening under another corporation. It will be interesting to see how the new coverage defenses work out on this one.
The EIFS claims in the 90’s ended up being paid by the mfg insurance carriers. Attorney’s gave up on the contractors for all the reasons outlined. In this case, there are no mfg to go after, so the importer is going to be on the hook. Will this create tighter underwriting of chinese imports? Not yet and tainted drywall has been an issue for over a year.
well, have we learned our lessen yet? you wonder why we purchased cheaply made chinese items? supposedly the feds have restrictions on some goods like lead% and many other items. but are we as a country so indebted to the chinese, that we as a country allow these things to happen or the chinese will take over our country because we owe them so much debt?
i think we need to step back and take a look at our trading situation. cheaply made things from china or should we be interested in getting our economy online, but purchasing american made items. items that already meet our guidelines on produced goods. how can our country believe in itself, if we keep purchasing many non-usa made items?
Government in China is primarily interested in control of the population from a political and military support point of view. The Mao way of thinking is still prevelant, however, capitalism to a certain extent is keeping the young, tech happy population appeased. Environment, health, and control of manufacturing is down on the list of priorities. Example: Almost 80% of the population over 18 smokes.
With the bad press the Chinese have had recently with lead, dog food, dry wall, etc, the priorities as regards QC will have to be adjusted if they want to be a major player in the western markets. Wake up call for the Chinese once again.
I disagree with the contents of the article. The Total Pollution Exclusion Endorsement precludes coverage for “‘bodily injury’ or ‘property damage’ which would not have occurred but for the actual, alleged or threatened discharge, dispersal, seepage, migration, release or escape of ‘pollutants.'” “Pollutants” are defined as “any solid, liquid, gaseous or thermal irritant or contaminant including smoke, vapor, soot, fumes, acids, chemicals and waste.” Because the claims for property damage and personal injury are a result of a pollutant, coverage is completely barred by the Total Pollution Exclusion Endorsement.
The author of this article seems to think general liability coverage under the builder’s insurance policy will still likely apply to property damage to contents and bodily injury claims by occupants. I don’t see that possible if the Total Pollution Endorsement is present on the policy.
I believe you may have misread that portion of the article. Did you see the portion where he stated the following:
Unfortunately, many general liability policies that are sold to contractors include a Total Pollution Exclusion that does not allow the exception that is mentioned in the above paragraph. The presence of the Total Pollution Exclusion (or similar exclusion) on a policy will allow the insurance carrier to take the position of denial of all damages and legal defense.
Sorry FOWIF – I did not completely respond to your question. There are cases allegedly in 13 separate states with the concentration being in Florida and Louisiana. SC has minimal cases as does GA, WV, VA, CA, AL, TX and even MS (surprisingly).
Is anyone surprised? The Chinese put lead in childrens toys and poison in baby formula! Seriously, when are Americans going to wake up and STOP USING products manufactured in China??? We need to stop importing these products!
Here is what we know thus far, we have more questions than answers though there is much to be learned about the effects of the CDW. There is enough known about the product to enable us to identify it with reasonable certainty. The CDW contains levels of strontium sulphide which are higher levels than in American dry wall; also the CDW contains 5% organic material. We saw evidence that in allot of the contaminated homes, the plastic around the wiring had been penetrated and the gases can reach as far as 5 feet below the concrete slab.
It appears the damage is more severe than first thought in some homes when inspected completely. Just pulling samples does not give a full picture of the collateral damage. Some of the experts argue that, once the exposed to the sulphide, deterioration is progressive and will continue even if the dry wall is removed. There are a number of highly qualified and reliable experts who agree that the only remedy for this problem is removal and replacement of the dry wall as well as the exposed soft wire. There are still some investigations underway that exploring less invasive and costly means of repair. We still do not know of any generally accepted remedial measures, short of removal and replacement, which will definitely eliminate the problem. The most puzzling phenomena was that in some homes tested when they went back the next day to take air samples those sample came back negative. Now how is that, when the first set of samples comes back positive? It is still unclear about the health effects but in private sessions with some toxicologist they feel there may be some bad adverse health effects depending on the exposure time.
Ok to complicate matters, standard comprehensive general liability insurance policies which typically cover general contractors may not afford much relief. Many of the policies include absolute pollution exclusions which bar coverage for any losses arising from “pollution”. Even policies that do not have absolute exclusions typically offer only partial coverage. Thus, one of the most expensive items of repair — the cost of removing and replacing the drywall is likely not covered. If this is the case a home owner may be left pursuing enormous damages from contractors, suppliers or manufactures with little or no available insurance coverage. Unless these defendants have substantial assets, home owners could be left with very limited options.
It will be interesting to see how much the plaintiff’s attorney’s will want to invest in this pursuit. Construction Defect coverage/litigation has evolved and matured….most carriers have gotten smart and written better policies….and rightly so. The industry cannot afford to insure the quality of anyone’s work. 10 years ago, it would have been a great case. Today, the firms who pursue it may go under with expenses.
Carriers defend these cases much more vigorously and successfully now than they did in the past. I don’t know which side you’ll end up on, but whichever it is, I’m sure there is someone that will oppose your opinion. Reminds me of Radon….wait a few days and it’s gone.
Louisiana judges have a different idea about pollution exclusions, and I’m sure they won’t let insurers off the hook with that one.
And, good luck buying something that ISN’T made in China. The US demands cheap stuff, and they deliver. Until we’re willing to produce it or demand better quality that we’re willing to pay for, it’s what we’ll get. China did assasinate the Chinese equivallent of the head of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, so they seem to be paying attention.
When will we all learn that we live in the best place on this planet, at least for now, when will we learn that as americans we have enacted or at least attempted to enact standards of living and production. Do you really think that another country really cares about us americans….no wake up dont buy the crap in the first place buy american in the end if we dont we will pay for it anyway…look at our own industry we are ALL paying for those mistakes too admit it or not think it through and you will come to the conclusion that it makes only good sense
I know this probably won’t work but, the US government should start deducting the damage values Americans are sustaining from Chinese made products out of the debt payments to China. It wouldn’t surprise me if the cumulative damages Americans have sustained is greater than the debt to China.
This defective Chinese Drywall problem, invading our real estate, coupled with hidden or obscure “gotcha” clauses in insurance policies allowing insurers to deny claims, has caused and will continue to cause serious financial loss and delay, unless fixed.
Where were the regulators when these defective materials were imported?
And, equally as important, where were the insurance regulators to prohibit this kind of exclusionary language to creep quietly into the insurance policies?
Under our current state-by-state insurance regulatory system in the US, even if one or two or more state insurance regulators are on the ball (many are) and even if that select group prohibited this type of “gotcha” denial language in the policies, that would not be enough.
There could still be many other state insurance regulators out there that would take no action, and who would allow these defective/deceptive insurance policies.
Bottom line — To be successful in your claim right now, you are still left to the luck of the draw, depending on the state that you are in. That shouldn’t be.
This Chinese Drywall situation is a prime example of the need for stronger product regulatory oversight and inspection, and a call for a uniform national insurance standard, with strong enforcement tools. Congress is considering this very concept now. It needs to be implemented.
I’m not sure why you would consider a form titled “Exclusion: Damage To Work Performed By Subcontractors On Your Behalf” (CG2294), a “gotcha” clause. It seems pretty obvious from the name of the exclusion what it excludes.
The purpose of General Liability insurance is to indemnify the insured for accidentally injuring someone or causing property damage. I assure you, that results in payments being made every day!
It is NOT the purpose or intent of the insurer to guarantee the quality of the workmanship. When you hire a roofer to put on a roof, if he accidentally breaks your window, fine, we’ll pay for it. But when your roof is simply of poor quality, we aren’t going to buy you a new one. Call your contractor!
General Liability insurance IS NOT A WARRANTY.
Trust me, you could not even afford to purchase GL insurance, if insurers had to guarantee the quality of everyone’s work. Do you understand this?
It’s not “hidden obscure gotcha clauses”, and it doesn’t “need to be fixed”. We aren’t going to become a warranty! Buy one, or hire a reputable contractor that stands behind his work.
So what law firm do you work for?
The fix has already occurred in the policies, it was infact the exclusion you refer to. This fixed the problem of attorney going after insurance companies just because the policy did not exclude what was never intended to be covered by the policy.
I can not foresee a policy that will cover foreign made products installed on behalf of a contractor by a subcontractor. This is a product liability and there are policies available to cover this type of claim, they also have exclusionary language because an insurance policy will never cover everything.
I give you an A for effort, but most folks in the industry understand the problems and most of them are a result of lawyers going after carriers for things that the policies were never intended to cover.
I feel sorry for these folks, I have many clients that are affected and my own house was built during this time period. But I blame the government for allowing this crap to be imported without proper testing. But a lawyer can not make any money suing the government so they go after he next target, insurance companies.
hows about you go after the people that are responsible for making this poisonous stuff, the Chinese… I would love to see a lawyer sue a communist country for this.
I’m always amused by those who protest over the discussion of politics that inevitably creeps into our posts. This happens because our current government–from the federal to the smallest city level–is populated by people who see their job as injecting themselves into every nook and cranny of our lives. We live in an age where politics affects EVERYTHING. And if you don’t believe it, look at what our government wants to do to our health care/insurance system. They have ZERO business sticking their noses into this area of endeavor. They’re subsidizing the purchase of new cars to appease the environmentalists. So I hope you’ll forgive those of us who have the eyes to see. You keep living in your naive compartmentalized world.
Well, at least they were not covered with lead. While there will be certainly be lawsuits against the contractors, and subs, there will be another party joined in the suits. The brokers and agents are clear defendants in these suits. When the article discusses possible endorsements which could bring coverage back into the policy, the suit will allege that the agents should have known about these endorsements and offered them to the contractors. The failure to do so will be cited as negligence on the part of the agent to protect the contractor. The net will be cast wide and the agent will clearly be part of the catch.
Well, at least they were not covered with lead. While there will be certainly be lawsuits against the contractors, and subs, there will be another party joined in the suits. The brokers and agents are clear defendants in these suits. When the article discusses possible endorsements which could bring coverage back into the policy, the suit will allege that the agents should have known about these endorsements and offered them to the contractors. The failure to do so will be cited as negligence on the part of the agent to protect the contractor. The net will be cast wide and the agent will clearly be part of the catch.
I don’t understand your post. the reason for these “gotcha” clauses is so that the only claims paid are for those perils that are agreed upon in the underwriting. Actuarially sound rates must be based on the loss experience used to create those rates. If you want coverage for Chinese drywall, find a carrier that will agree to do so, along with an actuarially sound price. This is not “gotcha” but rather getting what you pay for; having a loss develop like this, or like asbestos, requires that the premium is based on an expectation of a probable loss. But most folks think that insurance should just pay everything no matter what the cause. On another point, why should anyone expect Congress to do anything but muck it all up, as they usually do when insurance is seens as being “unfair”; just look at the Florida property market and you’ll get a good idea of how political debate yields a “fair” premium base. NOT!
Brokette, you have made my day. I will stop reading IJ because I have had my fill of folks “who have eyes” and feel compelled to tell me what is wrong with my naive compartmentalized world. So since you feel it is OK to talk down to me, allow me to do the same to you: SHOVE IT WHERE THE SUN DON’T SHINE!
Hi, the point of my note is that my legal brethren will seek every party even remotely connected to this debacle to find negligence, some form of coverage, and limits. Agents and Brokers e&o will be a potential source of money and they will be part of the lawsuits. The logic of having actuarially sound rates, adeguate premiums, clear endorsements, will mean nothing once the lawsuits start.
You simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
First of all, third party General Liability coverage has nothing to do with “named perils”. That is a first party concept..that you insure your own property for certain named perils…Liability coverage does not deal in PERILS at all, ever. In liability insurance, so long as the facts of the loss meet the insuring agreement, and coverage is not EXCLUDED OR OTHERWISE LIMITED,it’s covered. The fact that there are Exclusions, causes there to be NO COVERAGE. You cannot go out and find someone willing to cover defective work product….you cannot buy that….it is not “insurance”…it is a “warranty”…no one sells it~!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas McGowan…how you are turning this into agent E and O is equally as mysterious…you can’t buy endorsements to cover defective work….they don’t exist..the endorsements referenced are to spell out to every nimrod who thinks defective work is covered, that in fact, it is NOT.
There may be lots of defendants if plaintiff’s lawyers want to play, but that doesn’t mean anyone is going to pay.
There was no coverage for asbestos either but millions of dollars have been spent to defend those cases and millions more have been allocated for settlements.
John Mansfield, Owens Corning, Stearns Brakes and numerous other companies were weakened or destroyed in that minefield.
I cannot fault the plaintiff attorneys for their creativity or their advocacy on behalf of their clients. It is horrific that many who lost their homes to Katrina now are suffering with Chinese drywall claims. Those cases are extremely sympathetic and Judge Fallon presides over the very venue that still suffers from that open wound.
None of us know what will happen ultimately…We do know that it will change the landscape for many entities…few of which will be positive (changes).
True….but, the policies written back in the 70’s are vastly different that those written today. While it is unfortunate that the product MAY BE defective, I don’t really think the plaintiff lawyers motivation to accept these cases is driven by the desire to “help their client”…it’s driven by a desire to figure out how to manipulate the system into a paycheck for themselves.
Although I don’t specifically know the Judge which you refer to, generally Louisiana judges are rather loose with insurers money. Judges can write the policies by erroneous interpretation if they want, but eventually Louisiana residents and business will pay, through higher prices and lack of insurers from which to choose. These things always come back to bite you. IT’S NOT A WARRANTY.
Sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities. I was merely making a cogent argument for my point of view. I see that you are a cunning linguist utilizing all the monosyllabic words you learned in grade school. Bravo, sir!
Come on, guys. Let us be a little nicer here. I happen to COMPLETELY agree with the coverage explanation as put forth by our friend. But, as we joked about in law school – if a dog bites your client, sue GM, it has more money. Well, at least it used to. We do not need bitterness or rancor here, we all just need to recognize that there could be massive lawsuits, and there will be, over this issue. A class action is a possibility. Let us think about the similar problems which arose involving external insulation finishing systems. If the mold which arose due to trapping moisture could not be remediated, there were massive claims for ripping off walls and even some for claiming that the value of the house had been destroyed in its entirety. AND, of interest, not of possibility but of fact, in many of those claims agents ACTUALLY were sued. And, the defense of those claims cost a fair amount of money. And, knowing some of the attorneys involved, there ACTUALLY were settlements made. These were not issues of fairness, or the correct policy interpretation, but simply of seeking recompense on the part of a client from any possible party. The insurance industry oftentimes is very right, but there is still the likelihood of some massive defense costs. Keep it nice guys tom
The industry learned alot from EIFS. Most of them have new updated reinforced notgonnahappen Exclusions, which they anticipate will be challenged again. I’m sure someone will want to be the challenger, and it will cost insurers and insureds lots of money to defend. It’s definitely good for the lawyers, but not so good for society.
However, I’m still not tracking on the earlier post about Agent’s Errors and Ommissions..I can’t foresee how an agent could have given this type of coverage….it didn’t exist to give.
And your post says “Claims agents” were sued…not sure if you mean claims personnel or agents? I am not aware of any claims personnel who were personally sued for their handling and had to pay any settlements. If Agents, I welcome your version of their “error” or “omission”.
Yes, Tom, I agree that any fool can sue and often does. :-) I think the insurance industry is tired of being the bad guy in all of this. Everytime a large loss occurs the insurance industry is called upon to make it “all better”. China is putting out some very dangerous products and we (our government regulators who beat domestic companies into submission) appear incapable or unwilling to do anything about it. We look to insurance to become the social remedy. China’s the bad guy here and something needs to be done to curtail these imports. Perhaps another “beer summit”? :-o
Sorry for the somewhat quickly typed comments. There actually were agents who were sued (not claims people) on the basis that 1) that the agents should have advised the clients that there was no coverage(gosh, maybe they could have found it from another source) 2) most interestingly, agents were sued and asked whether they had exhausted ALL possible markets to find possible coverage – sort of the Lloyds claim (I am a “name” there and am not sure if anyone EVER asked for this coverage) 3)incredibly, that there SHOULD have been coverage as the forms were confusing and therefore that coverage might apply. You have to admit, these were clever tom
I think all agent should start invading the lawyer and legal forums so we can give our insight as to how WE think the world should be and why attorney are always seeking someone to pay the bill even if they are not the party that is at fault or responsible.
I just want to puke when I see this crap, apparently there are alot of lawyers that just believe no one should be personally responsible for anything but it is always the fault of others and lets go sue.
READ YOUR FRIGGING POLICIES, thats why insurance companies print them and mail them to you, for you to read.
Thanks for clarifying…I assumed you meant agents. However, I don’t see it as “clever” that the attorney’s went after the agents…..I call it desperate. The bottom line is that General Liability insurance was NEVER INTENDED to provide a warranty of anyone’s work…….whether you are a roofer, a cakebaker, or a muffinmaker, it is NOT the purpose of liability insurance to warrant the work itself. What next, the vanilla doesn’t taste good?
I dare any contractor to approach the Lloyd’s market and ask for all aspects of their work to be “warranted” and see what kind of premium quote you get, if any. In fact, Lloyd’s will wonder why contractors are calling them, because they aren’t seeking insurance at all.
The contractors wouldn’t even considering doing that, because they have no idea the ravenous nature of plaintiff’s lawfirms, as it pertains to construction related claims. For now.
Is it true that the Chinese are funding the war and we are somewhat indebted to them?
If true, I wonder what the Govt is going to do about the drywall issue. Will the insurance companies be made to pay anyway, regardless of policy exclusions?
I agree with the other poster who mentioned asbestos. Were the installers at risk? Here we go with the BI claims.
The law office of Atty Sokolov is already making TV commercials for future airing.
Down here in SoFl, lawyers are gearing up to fight this monster. But I think they are going after a very dry well.
1. Assuming that the GCs have the right insurance is one thing, but how many GCs have folded up shop by now?
2. Subcontractors have been getting squeezed for years by the GCs as a result many do not have GL or WC or workers with a SS#. So after years of suppling fake COIs to GCs (who looked the other way out of greed)Many of these sub contractos do not even have insurance, and most like the GCs have folded up thier tents and moved away.
3. Ditto the building supply centers that provided the drywall, unless they are Loews or Home Depot, they will also go belly up before paying big judgements.
Lawyers cannot sue what is not there….
And finnally, observing the mish mash of GCs Subs, Subs of Subs and Subs of Subs of Subs who brought along some guy…., who is going to be able to unwind all of that to prove that x contractor installed x drywall into the house at 1234 Evergreen Lane?
I am afraid that these homeowners will never see a penny, and be stuck with a house that needs more in repairs then it is actually worth.
Yep’n, them Republicans are always right. Need to cut taxes, so we need to cut back on regulation–don’t need no fancy gummint regulators. Don’t need no big gummint. But, gol dang it, a bunch of this junk came in from overseas, dumped on our free market by them furriners.
And then there’s that access to courts and justice thing. We don’t need no big plaintiff lawyers clogging up our system. (Actually, we know its true that business vs. business litigation is what clogs our courts, but beating up on plaintiff attorneys is easier and gets that ‘motional response we need to control the electorate).
But, what? You mean our state regulators (states’ rights are big with ‘Publicans, sort of resonates with that Confederate flag, race-baiting thing we like) have let us down on inshorance regulation? And those Republican judges all the way up to the Supreme Court routinely favor big capital and big companies over little companies? We aint got none of that legal recourse comin’ to us? My company, my life’s work is gone?
Maybe we should start rethinkin’ what’s been going on since that Reagan fellow told us we were special ’cause were we were ‘Mericans and were entitled and could buy anything we wanted (using money borrowed from those same furriners to buy these fancy McMansions with the bad wallboard inside–ouch, my head hurts!!) and didn’t have to work so hard…
Gollee! Shucks! Can’t Say-rah help no more?
.
So how many of the GC’s that have gone out of business will now become CDI’s (Chinese Drywall Inspectors) Charge $250 to inspect a home for sulphur ridden drywall and tarnishing metal and then offer to replace the drywall for the homeowner. No coverage will likely be found under most policies in Florida at least, and there are thousands that are out there that need gutted. This could have been a conspiracy by the builders to create a need for additional work down the road or it may be a way for the Obama administration to put more people to work, by making others sick.
Ok, for real now. THis is going to be like a mini asbestos problem that goes on for years. The real estate contract will likely need a disclaimer that the drywall is not contaminated and the home inspectors will now have something else to look for and collect an additioanl fee for and the lawyers get rich once again at the cost of someone else.
And, Hyena, if higher taxes meant a more EFFECTIVE government, we might not be so against them but…… it doesn’t. Way to “profile” Republicans, you bigot. The Cambridge police department would be soooo proud of you.
Dear Hyena,
Yall mut be Dimicrat MOORON. cause we all knows dat all de McMansions gone bak to de banks cause of dis OBAMA iconimi. jes weight for govmint healthcre! I is a Puplik scool gradiate.
The hyena is non-partisan but merely empirical and feasts on rot while laughing!
As for criticisms “bring’em on.”
Maybe people will wake up from the Reagan slumber and realize the world is passing the indolent, poorly educated, spoiled, arrogant and poorly led U.S. by. It is not a partisan issue. It’s an American survival issue, although the Republicans, now reduced to a small, racist, regional party, filled with courtly manners, quaint accents, yet bereft of ideas that will do any good, did and currently do a great job of screwing up the country–unprecedented. As Mr. Rogers would say–Can you say Yes? There, I knew that you couldn’t.
Good work, y’all. Looking forward to Say-rah finishing the job and leading us off that final cliff. As Colbert says, commenting on textbook revisions by Christianists in Texas, two and five don’t have to equal seven. No! Not if you’re Jesus!
Time to wake up.
Republicans are racists. What an intelligent statement. When did Barbara Boxer switch parties? If Democrats give a rip about poor people, the little guy (however, you’d like to characterize them), why have they not won The War on Poverty? Answer: Because they keep promising wealth for votes and the underclass continue to buy it, in spite of the fact that the message is now crossed generations. Dems aren’t necessarily educated. They just have ZERO shame when it comes to selling people (including illegal aliens) a bill of goods.
Thanks Hyena for proving without a doubt that stupidity knows no bounds. Your moronic assessment of people with thoughts and beliefs other than your own shows your bigotry and inability to have a rational discussion of the issues and facts. Keep your stupidity to yourself as I for one am sick of hearing self righteous idiots like yourself preach the “gospel”.
If government wanted to change anything they could do it. After all…they are the ones who wrote and passed all of the stupidity we are living with now. So, I don’t care if you are republican, democrat, independent or any other party you can name, there are 545 of them and millions of us and we just sit back and let them tell us what to do. Stop buying cheap goods (you get what you pay for) and start being a nation that produces what it needs again, with quality control. If you don’t produce something worth buying you go out of business and someone who will produce a good product takes your place.
The only difference between the parties is that the Dems let the money slip through the poor people’s fingers before they steal it.
To Difference:
Now THAT’S funny because there is a modicum of truth to it.
Thanks for the laugh!!
Hyena, you’ve written some of the best stuff I’ve seen posted in a while. Keep it coming!
Brokette, you were quick to rip Hyena apart for calling Republicans racist, but I didn’t see an equal comment directed at griff123 for calling Dems morons. Not very educated of you…
MeMe, I agree that this country needs to get on the ball when it comes to creating more affordable, quality goods. However, it’s naive to think that we can live in a self-sufficient bubble without imports/exports. What I’m stumped over is how lead and toxin-filled products from China keep making across our borders and into our homes? Where’s the regulation on this stuff?
OH, you mean the regulation that our government has for importing cheap goods that kill us. If Americans continue to buy this crap, they will keep shipping it here. Here a task that you will probably not be able to complete. Go to any store and try to find something that is made out of metal that is made in America. Or any article of clothing that is made here, or an electronic device, hell even the automobiles that are assembled here have foreign made parts. The simple answer is those countries are willing to do it cheap and we are lazy fargin bastages. Why do we allow anything imported from China, after the melamine contamination, the posion toothpaste, the lead paint and toys that are contaminated with poisons and drywall is NOT the last thing we will hear of. The answer is money. And don’t think for a minute that the democrats are equally responsible for anything that has happened to this country. They are all liars they just have to different conventions. Obama sure has not done anything to stop the import of Chinese goods that will kill us or make us sick and he DAMM sure ain’t not publican.
It’s all my fault.
But ain’t it great Obamie has to deal with it. And that ol girl Pelosi, she gets more crap imported to Califormia than anywhere else is the US. Bet her Mcmansion doesn’t have non of this smelly wall board in it, she knows to buy non chinese stuff.
Way to go Brokette,
Hyena sounds more like a member of ACORN or the SEUI then an Insurance person. By the way the Goverment school system and the Teachers union is the reason we have such an undereducated youth today and have you seen the College curriculem lately? Don’t throw any7 anti union garbage at me hyena – I am a former Teamster and I know unions first hand. The Good ones are ok the bad one like the SEUI and the Teachers are horrible.Barbara Boxer the dumbest person in Washington D.C. and a Racist. Stop throwing around negatives and work for true reform in our country.
You sound more like a Hyena than not! A doglike carnivore of the family Hyaenidae, of Africa, southwestern Asia, and south central Asia, having a coarse coat, a sloping back, and large teeth and feeding chiefly on carrion, often in packs. Sounds just like a democrat to me.
Uh, Not Quite–who died and left me in charge of policing the message boards?
This is typical for the Chinese. They have no regard for their own safety with regards to pollution so I would never expect them to provide exports that are any better. I have no issue with importing what we need. We just have to know the source.
Sounds like profiling to me.
Hyena will start in about that if your not careful. I can see it now, “Racism, its not just about the black, but also the Chinese”.
Hyena, Help me out….
Hey, wasn’t there a story this weekend where a black man was breaking into his own house with a crowbar, and the neighbors called the police ? And the nice white police offer responded and the black man acted like a J*C*A*S, refusing to provide ID. And Obama said “I don’t have the facts but that police officer was STUPID”. Sounds like Bama is the racist to me!
Out of all these comments maybe three of them are on point about the drywall. I hate politics and the political fighting that goes on in this comment section. I’m just a lowly claim adjuster trying to keep up on things that affect my job. Can’t we find somewhere else for the political diatribes and stick to the insurance issues. I do want to give a thumbs up to Jim for the Johnny Dangerously reference. Great Movie.
In this case, it turned political because the hyena immediately blamed the Republicans for defective Chinese products. I think he blamed Reagan.
On point though, this one will be good for defense counsel. If I were a targeted GC or Sub, I think I’d be shutting my business down, and reopening under another corporation. It will be interesting to see how the new coverage defenses work out on this one.
The EIFS claims in the 90’s ended up being paid by the mfg insurance carriers. Attorney’s gave up on the contractors for all the reasons outlined. In this case, there are no mfg to go after, so the importer is going to be on the hook. Will this create tighter underwriting of chinese imports? Not yet and tainted drywall has been an issue for over a year.
“And the Chinese walls came tumbling down.” “Stack-a-lee and Willie”…………….
Never trust the Chinese or the Russians. Is that to political?
well, have we learned our lessen yet? you wonder why we purchased cheaply made chinese items? supposedly the feds have restrictions on some goods like lead% and many other items. but are we as a country so indebted to the chinese, that we as a country allow these things to happen or the chinese will take over our country because we owe them so much debt?
i think we need to step back and take a look at our trading situation. cheaply made things from china or should we be interested in getting our economy online, but purchasing american made items. items that already meet our guidelines on produced goods. how can our country believe in itself, if we keep purchasing many non-usa made items?
Government in China is primarily interested in control of the population from a political and military support point of view. The Mao way of thinking is still prevelant, however, capitalism to a certain extent is keeping the young, tech happy population appeased. Environment, health, and control of manufacturing is down on the list of priorities. Example: Almost 80% of the population over 18 smokes.
With the bad press the Chinese have had recently with lead, dog food, dry wall, etc, the priorities as regards QC will have to be adjusted if they want to be a major player in the western markets. Wake up call for the Chinese once again.
I disagree with the contents of the article. The Total Pollution Exclusion Endorsement precludes coverage for “‘bodily injury’ or ‘property damage’ which would not have occurred but for the actual, alleged or threatened discharge, dispersal, seepage, migration, release or escape of ‘pollutants.'” “Pollutants” are defined as “any solid, liquid, gaseous or thermal irritant or contaminant including smoke, vapor, soot, fumes, acids, chemicals and waste.” Because the claims for property damage and personal injury are a result of a pollutant, coverage is completely barred by the Total Pollution Exclusion Endorsement.
The author of this article seems to think general liability coverage under the builder’s insurance policy will still likely apply to property damage to contents and bodily injury claims by occupants. I don’t see that possible if the Total Pollution Endorsement is present on the policy.
I believe you may have misread that portion of the article. Did you see the portion where he stated the following:
Unfortunately, many general liability policies that are sold to contractors include a Total Pollution Exclusion that does not allow the exception that is mentioned in the above paragraph. The presence of the Total Pollution Exclusion (or similar exclusion) on a policy will allow the insurance carrier to take the position of denial of all damages and legal defense.
From what little I’ve read these claims and lawsuits seem to be primarily in Florida.
Does anyone have knowledge of these being filed or seen elsewhere in the US?
If so, where and what are those numbers?
The cases have been consolidated and are in Federal Court in Louisiana under the direction of Judge Fallon.
Sorry FOWIF – I did not completely respond to your question. There are cases allegedly in 13 separate states with the concentration being in Florida and Louisiana. SC has minimal cases as does GA, WV, VA, CA, AL, TX and even MS (surprisingly).
Is anyone surprised? The Chinese put lead in childrens toys and poison in baby formula! Seriously, when are Americans going to wake up and STOP USING products manufactured in China??? We need to stop importing these products!
any world on problems with S. Korean drywall? Mine is decent; holds paint and artwork; but it does have an odd smell of wet dog..pleas help
Here is what we know thus far, we have more questions than answers though there is much to be learned about the effects of the CDW. There is enough known about the product to enable us to identify it with reasonable certainty. The CDW contains levels of strontium sulphide which are higher levels than in American dry wall; also the CDW contains 5% organic material. We saw evidence that in allot of the contaminated homes, the plastic around the wiring had been penetrated and the gases can reach as far as 5 feet below the concrete slab.
It appears the damage is more severe than first thought in some homes when inspected completely. Just pulling samples does not give a full picture of the collateral damage. Some of the experts argue that, once the exposed to the sulphide, deterioration is progressive and will continue even if the dry wall is removed. There are a number of highly qualified and reliable experts who agree that the only remedy for this problem is removal and replacement of the dry wall as well as the exposed soft wire. There are still some investigations underway that exploring less invasive and costly means of repair. We still do not know of any generally accepted remedial measures, short of removal and replacement, which will definitely eliminate the problem. The most puzzling phenomena was that in some homes tested when they went back the next day to take air samples those sample came back negative. Now how is that, when the first set of samples comes back positive? It is still unclear about the health effects but in private sessions with some toxicologist they feel there may be some bad adverse health effects depending on the exposure time.
Ok to complicate matters, standard comprehensive general liability insurance policies which typically cover general contractors may not afford much relief. Many of the policies include absolute pollution exclusions which bar coverage for any losses arising from “pollution”. Even policies that do not have absolute exclusions typically offer only partial coverage. Thus, one of the most expensive items of repair — the cost of removing and replacing the drywall is likely not covered. If this is the case a home owner may be left pursuing enormous damages from contractors, suppliers or manufactures with little or no available insurance coverage. Unless these defendants have substantial assets, home owners could be left with very limited options.
Rick Hollister CEI, CMR, CLI
Environmental Administrators, Inc
rhollister@environmentaladministrators.com
Tallahassee, Fl
It will be interesting to see how much the plaintiff’s attorney’s will want to invest in this pursuit. Construction Defect coverage/litigation has evolved and matured….most carriers have gotten smart and written better policies….and rightly so. The industry cannot afford to insure the quality of anyone’s work. 10 years ago, it would have been a great case. Today, the firms who pursue it may go under with expenses.
Carriers defend these cases much more vigorously and successfully now than they did in the past. I don’t know which side you’ll end up on, but whichever it is, I’m sure there is someone that will oppose your opinion. Reminds me of Radon….wait a few days and it’s gone.
Louisiana judges have a different idea about pollution exclusions, and I’m sure they won’t let insurers off the hook with that one.
And, good luck buying something that ISN’T made in China. The US demands cheap stuff, and they deliver. Until we’re willing to produce it or demand better quality that we’re willing to pay for, it’s what we’ll get. China did assasinate the Chinese equivallent of the head of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, so they seem to be paying attention.
The courts upheld the flood exclusions… although they made it a tough fight.
When will we all learn that we live in the best place on this planet, at least for now, when will we learn that as americans we have enacted or at least attempted to enact standards of living and production. Do you really think that another country really cares about us americans….no wake up dont buy the crap in the first place buy american in the end if we dont we will pay for it anyway…look at our own industry we are ALL paying for those mistakes too admit it or not think it through and you will come to the conclusion that it makes only good sense
I know this probably won’t work but, the US government should start deducting the damage values Americans are sustaining from Chinese made products out of the debt payments to China. It wouldn’t surprise me if the cumulative damages Americans have sustained is greater than the debt to China.
This defective Chinese Drywall problem, invading our real estate, coupled with hidden or obscure “gotcha” clauses in insurance policies allowing insurers to deny claims, has caused and will continue to cause serious financial loss and delay, unless fixed.
Where were the regulators when these defective materials were imported?
And, equally as important, where were the insurance regulators to prohibit this kind of exclusionary language to creep quietly into the insurance policies?
Under our current state-by-state insurance regulatory system in the US, even if one or two or more state insurance regulators are on the ball (many are) and even if that select group prohibited this type of “gotcha” denial language in the policies, that would not be enough.
There could still be many other state insurance regulators out there that would take no action, and who would allow these defective/deceptive insurance policies.
Bottom line — To be successful in your claim right now, you are still left to the luck of the draw, depending on the state that you are in. That shouldn’t be.
This Chinese Drywall situation is a prime example of the need for stronger product regulatory oversight and inspection, and a call for a uniform national insurance standard, with strong enforcement tools. Congress is considering this very concept now. It needs to be implemented.
I’m not sure why you would consider a form titled “Exclusion: Damage To Work Performed By Subcontractors On Your Behalf” (CG2294), a “gotcha” clause. It seems pretty obvious from the name of the exclusion what it excludes.
The judges might have upheld the flood exclusions, simply because the homeowner’s could pursue FEMA? Don’t know…just wondering.
Edge,
The purpose of General Liability insurance is to indemnify the insured for accidentally injuring someone or causing property damage. I assure you, that results in payments being made every day!
It is NOT the purpose or intent of the insurer to guarantee the quality of the workmanship. When you hire a roofer to put on a roof, if he accidentally breaks your window, fine, we’ll pay for it. But when your roof is simply of poor quality, we aren’t going to buy you a new one. Call your contractor!
General Liability insurance IS NOT A WARRANTY.
Trust me, you could not even afford to purchase GL insurance, if insurers had to guarantee the quality of everyone’s work. Do you understand this?
It’s not “hidden obscure gotcha clauses”, and it doesn’t “need to be fixed”. We aren’t going to become a warranty! Buy one, or hire a reputable contractor that stands behind his work.
So what law firm do you work for?
The fix has already occurred in the policies, it was infact the exclusion you refer to. This fixed the problem of attorney going after insurance companies just because the policy did not exclude what was never intended to be covered by the policy.
I can not foresee a policy that will cover foreign made products installed on behalf of a contractor by a subcontractor. This is a product liability and there are policies available to cover this type of claim, they also have exclusionary language because an insurance policy will never cover everything.
I give you an A for effort, but most folks in the industry understand the problems and most of them are a result of lawyers going after carriers for things that the policies were never intended to cover.
I feel sorry for these folks, I have many clients that are affected and my own house was built during this time period. But I blame the government for allowing this crap to be imported without proper testing. But a lawyer can not make any money suing the government so they go after he next target, insurance companies.
hows about you go after the people that are responsible for making this poisonous stuff, the Chinese… I would love to see a lawyer sue a communist country for this.
I really don’t need more politics in these “insurance” discussions but I did enjoy the humor in Hyena’s posts. thanks for the laugh!
I’m always amused by those who protest over the discussion of politics that inevitably creeps into our posts. This happens because our current government–from the federal to the smallest city level–is populated by people who see their job as injecting themselves into every nook and cranny of our lives. We live in an age where politics affects EVERYTHING. And if you don’t believe it, look at what our government wants to do to our health care/insurance system. They have ZERO business sticking their noses into this area of endeavor. They’re subsidizing the purchase of new cars to appease the environmentalists. So I hope you’ll forgive those of us who have the eyes to see. You keep living in your naive compartmentalized world.
Well, at least they were not covered with lead. While there will be certainly be lawsuits against the contractors, and subs, there will be another party joined in the suits. The brokers and agents are clear defendants in these suits. When the article discusses possible endorsements which could bring coverage back into the policy, the suit will allege that the agents should have known about these endorsements and offered them to the contractors. The failure to do so will be cited as negligence on the part of the agent to protect the contractor. The net will be cast wide and the agent will clearly be part of the catch.
Well, at least they were not covered with lead. While there will be certainly be lawsuits against the contractors, and subs, there will be another party joined in the suits. The brokers and agents are clear defendants in these suits. When the article discusses possible endorsements which could bring coverage back into the policy, the suit will allege that the agents should have known about these endorsements and offered them to the contractors. The failure to do so will be cited as negligence on the part of the agent to protect the contractor. The net will be cast wide and the agent will clearly be part of the catch.
I don’t understand your post. the reason for these “gotcha” clauses is so that the only claims paid are for those perils that are agreed upon in the underwriting. Actuarially sound rates must be based on the loss experience used to create those rates. If you want coverage for Chinese drywall, find a carrier that will agree to do so, along with an actuarially sound price. This is not “gotcha” but rather getting what you pay for; having a loss develop like this, or like asbestos, requires that the premium is based on an expectation of a probable loss. But most folks think that insurance should just pay everything no matter what the cause. On another point, why should anyone expect Congress to do anything but muck it all up, as they usually do when insurance is seens as being “unfair”; just look at the Florida property market and you’ll get a good idea of how political debate yields a “fair” premium base. NOT!
Brokette, you have made my day. I will stop reading IJ because I have had my fill of folks “who have eyes” and feel compelled to tell me what is wrong with my naive compartmentalized world. So since you feel it is OK to talk down to me, allow me to do the same to you: SHOVE IT WHERE THE SUN DON’T SHINE!
Hi, the point of my note is that my legal brethren will seek every party even remotely connected to this debacle to find negligence, some form of coverage, and limits. Agents and Brokers e&o will be a potential source of money and they will be part of the lawsuits. The logic of having actuarially sound rates, adeguate premiums, clear endorsements, will mean nothing once the lawsuits start.
Stat guy and Thomas McGowan:
You simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
First of all, third party General Liability coverage has nothing to do with “named perils”. That is a first party concept..that you insure your own property for certain named perils…Liability coverage does not deal in PERILS at all, ever. In liability insurance, so long as the facts of the loss meet the insuring agreement, and coverage is not EXCLUDED OR OTHERWISE LIMITED,it’s covered. The fact that there are Exclusions, causes there to be NO COVERAGE. You cannot go out and find someone willing to cover defective work product….you cannot buy that….it is not “insurance”…it is a “warranty”…no one sells it~!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas McGowan…how you are turning this into agent E and O is equally as mysterious…you can’t buy endorsements to cover defective work….they don’t exist..the endorsements referenced are to spell out to every nimrod who thinks defective work is covered, that in fact, it is NOT.
There may be lots of defendants if plaintiff’s lawyers want to play, but that doesn’t mean anyone is going to pay.
There was no coverage for asbestos either but millions of dollars have been spent to defend those cases and millions more have been allocated for settlements.
John Mansfield, Owens Corning, Stearns Brakes and numerous other companies were weakened or destroyed in that minefield.
I cannot fault the plaintiff attorneys for their creativity or their advocacy on behalf of their clients. It is horrific that many who lost their homes to Katrina now are suffering with Chinese drywall claims. Those cases are extremely sympathetic and Judge Fallon presides over the very venue that still suffers from that open wound.
None of us know what will happen ultimately…We do know that it will change the landscape for many entities…few of which will be positive (changes).
True….but, the policies written back in the 70’s are vastly different that those written today. While it is unfortunate that the product MAY BE defective, I don’t really think the plaintiff lawyers motivation to accept these cases is driven by the desire to “help their client”…it’s driven by a desire to figure out how to manipulate the system into a paycheck for themselves.
Although I don’t specifically know the Judge which you refer to, generally Louisiana judges are rather loose with insurers money. Judges can write the policies by erroneous interpretation if they want, but eventually Louisiana residents and business will pay, through higher prices and lack of insurers from which to choose. These things always come back to bite you. IT’S NOT A WARRANTY.
Sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities. I was merely making a cogent argument for my point of view. I see that you are a cunning linguist utilizing all the monosyllabic words you learned in grade school. Bravo, sir!
Come on, guys. Let us be a little nicer here. I happen to COMPLETELY agree with the coverage explanation as put forth by our friend. But, as we joked about in law school – if a dog bites your client, sue GM, it has more money. Well, at least it used to. We do not need bitterness or rancor here, we all just need to recognize that there could be massive lawsuits, and there will be, over this issue. A class action is a possibility. Let us think about the similar problems which arose involving external insulation finishing systems. If the mold which arose due to trapping moisture could not be remediated, there were massive claims for ripping off walls and even some for claiming that the value of the house had been destroyed in its entirety. AND, of interest, not of possibility but of fact, in many of those claims agents ACTUALLY were sued. And, the defense of those claims cost a fair amount of money. And, knowing some of the attorneys involved, there ACTUALLY were settlements made. These were not issues of fairness, or the correct policy interpretation, but simply of seeking recompense on the part of a client from any possible party. The insurance industry oftentimes is very right, but there is still the likelihood of some massive defense costs. Keep it nice guys tom
The industry learned alot from EIFS. Most of them have new updated reinforced notgonnahappen Exclusions, which they anticipate will be challenged again. I’m sure someone will want to be the challenger, and it will cost insurers and insureds lots of money to defend. It’s definitely good for the lawyers, but not so good for society.
However, I’m still not tracking on the earlier post about Agent’s Errors and Ommissions..I can’t foresee how an agent could have given this type of coverage….it didn’t exist to give.
And your post says “Claims agents” were sued…not sure if you mean claims personnel or agents? I am not aware of any claims personnel who were personally sued for their handling and had to pay any settlements. If Agents, I welcome your version of their “error” or “omission”.
Yes, Tom, I agree that any fool can sue and often does. :-) I think the insurance industry is tired of being the bad guy in all of this. Everytime a large loss occurs the insurance industry is called upon to make it “all better”. China is putting out some very dangerous products and we (our government regulators who beat domestic companies into submission) appear incapable or unwilling to do anything about it. We look to insurance to become the social remedy. China’s the bad guy here and something needs to be done to curtail these imports. Perhaps another “beer summit”? :-o
Sorry for the somewhat quickly typed comments. There actually were agents who were sued (not claims people) on the basis that 1) that the agents should have advised the clients that there was no coverage(gosh, maybe they could have found it from another source) 2) most interestingly, agents were sued and asked whether they had exhausted ALL possible markets to find possible coverage – sort of the Lloyds claim (I am a “name” there and am not sure if anyone EVER asked for this coverage) 3)incredibly, that there SHOULD have been coverage as the forms were confusing and therefore that coverage might apply. You have to admit, these were clever tom
I think all agent should start invading the lawyer and legal forums so we can give our insight as to how WE think the world should be and why attorney are always seeking someone to pay the bill even if they are not the party that is at fault or responsible.
I just want to puke when I see this crap, apparently there are alot of lawyers that just believe no one should be personally responsible for anything but it is always the fault of others and lets go sue.
READ YOUR FRIGGING POLICIES, thats why insurance companies print them and mail them to you, for you to read.
Thanks for clarifying…I assumed you meant agents. However, I don’t see it as “clever” that the attorney’s went after the agents…..I call it desperate. The bottom line is that General Liability insurance was NEVER INTENDED to provide a warranty of anyone’s work…….whether you are a roofer, a cakebaker, or a muffinmaker, it is NOT the purpose of liability insurance to warrant the work itself. What next, the vanilla doesn’t taste good?
I dare any contractor to approach the Lloyd’s market and ask for all aspects of their work to be “warranted” and see what kind of premium quote you get, if any. In fact, Lloyd’s will wonder why contractors are calling them, because they aren’t seeking insurance at all.
The contractors wouldn’t even considering doing that, because they have no idea the ravenous nature of plaintiff’s lawfirms, as it pertains to construction related claims. For now.