No one should ever be able to escape the consequences of their actions. Ever, under any circumstances.
I would like to see every official of the government held to account as an individual for every single consequence of their actions.
Even better if the corporate veil could be not only pierced, but destroyed; every officer, employee and stockholder personally responsible under the law for every action taken by the entity.
I find this to be beyond Offensive.
These men were doing their jobs in a time to total TERROR and anyone that goes after them should be Ashamed to look themselves in the Mirror.
Have they Forgotten the TERROR?
I Just Pray none of us has to see it again, but with actions like this, you can bet it will. Shameful.
Sherry-
Perhaps yopu are ignorant of the Geneva Convention and the US agreement to not torture. In addition, have you heard of habeas corpus? No one has the right to violate human rights in the name of going after terrorists, especially not the US AG. Maybe you need to study the Constitution and Rules of Law a bit more so that you understand that our country is so great because we do afford rights to all people, even suspected terrorists.
All of this crap about protecting the rights of terrorist will prove to be a fatal mistake for many in the future as they now know to what extent we will go and where we will not go to defend ourselves. Dont think that this is a law enforcement issue, thats what happened prior to 9/11/01. We will be hit again and liberal judges and media along with the Obama administration will be to blame for it.
Beth, The Geneva Convention does not apply to Terrorist! PERIOD. They are not soilders wearing a uniform from a country who signed the accords.
So a little water in the nose of a guy who wants to kill you is not necessarily a bad thing in my book. Stop being a wuss. Thats why the Iranians are laughing at Obama. They know he is a wuss and they will do nothing for him because of it.
Oh and I forgot Habeus Corpus and the US constitution only applies to US Citizens while in the United States. This does not apply to foriegn born Terrorist. So yes it would apply if it were some towel head in Dearborn MI who was born here but goes outside his house and cheers when two planes ram into a skyscraper. Yes he has the protection of Habeous Corpus, but dont let me get my hands on him. Then Habeous Corpus would apply to me.
This wasn’t an act of civil disobedience. How quick we forget the thousands of individuals who died due to this act of war. It is easy to ignore, like the Speaker of the House, the actions taken at this time of crisis prevented further attacks on our country.
Why do you always have to bring everything back to the current administration? We had eight years of total corruption and you defend that? Were you not around when Obama was elected by an overwhelming majority?
Just because something is legal or not legal does not necessarily make it right or wrong. Laws are created by politicians and politics change over time, one way or the other. You need to dig deeper than just stating torture is illegal, therefore it was wrong. You must remember the time and circumstances around 9/11/2001. Hiroshima was illegal, but was it wrong? I remember watching those people jump out the windows of the twin towers, the screaming people. I can still smell the acidic smell of the smoke in the aftermath. The crying families and the funerals, but most of all I remember the paper flyers all over Manhattan with the pictures of missing people that a family member had taped on a wall or window. I remember because, I WAS THERE! working for AIG. I do not fault the CIA or our President at the time for doing everything in their power to prevent another event. If I could have gotten my hands on one of those three high level terrorist, I would have killed them. Not a question in my mind. In a comparison, water boarding would have been something they would have wished for.
Sam, you exposure your ignorance with your statement of “US constitution only applies to US Citizens while in the United States. This does not apply to foreign born Terrorist.” Since the Constitution is a document to stipulate the form and function of the Federal Government, it does indeed cover terrorists. The point of the constitution is to provide for a clear articulation of the rules and role of government – it is not meant to stipulate the laws with regard to the population (this is the realm of State Constitutions). So indeed, if the Constitution says something like no unreasonable punishment or indefinite detention is allowed (as it does), that rule still applies to the Government even if they are interning a terrorist, provided he is within the control of the US Gov’t. For the Federal Gov’t to be Constitutionally allowed to disregard the inalienable rights of these enemy combatants, it would require an amendment specifically stating Gov’t can disregard the rights of non-citizens. Since we have no such amendment yet, terrorist are vested with the same rights as you have, technically.
Beth, I dont think you and I agree on what should be done regarding the legal situation with the prior administration. Nor do I believe they should be subject to legal proceedings. I believe they should be given an award for keeping us safe for the last 8 years. Sorry.
Right on! Thanks to the two parties that you mention in your last sentence, we’re on our way down the s___ chute. Will lawyers still be allowed to sue, once we formally become a Socialist Republic?
May I suggest that we simply employ Islamic interrogation tactics and punishment. The enemy neither fears nor respects the USA for being nice to them. We could behead all of the remaining terrorists in Gitmo and save Barry Obama some time so he can work on important stuff like getting the Olympics to Chicago.
My friends who were murdered on 9 11 are looking down on us and wondering what happened to America
Sam, I would have agreed with you if you left out the stupid towel head comment. This is not a productive use of language. On the other hand, even the French are laughing at the stupidity of our current President. All our old friends in the world now know they are not of value to us. Beth, I don’t listen to Beck, but I glanced at one of his old books in the store last night and he makes a lot more sense than any liberal poster I have read on this site and others. Liberals accuse conservatives of having closed minds when the most closed minded people in this country are liberals.
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin.
The omission of those key qualifiers-“essential” and “little”- makes all the difference in the world. Ben Franklin has been hijacked to endorse an untenable and deadly view that no sacrifice of any liberty for any amount of safety at any time should ever be made. Funny how liberals always forget to use all the words in a quote.
I will retract the towel head comment when I hear one muslim american say – Allah Bless America or come out publicly against radical islamist’s. I have yet heard a cleric publicly form a protest against Alqueda. When I see and hear this I will retract my towel head comment.
It appears as though we want to pit a bunch of boy scouts agains a band of trained terrorists. I wonder what kind of merit badge we get for that? Thank heavens the VP and those other patriots were protecting us. I guess now we have to interrogate now by withholding ice cream.
Nobody, your right, Liberals argue with an emotional outburst of feelings backed up by laws made by socialist politicians. Conservatives use logic and reason backed up by personal responsiblity. Funny how when liberals protest they are peaceful and when conservative elderly people show up its a mob. Well the country now has awakened for its apathy towards government and now is alive with desent. Heres another correct quote for my liberal friends,
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson
Anyone else notice that the JBL (Jack Boot Lickers) who are tumescent at the thought of a police state (as long as Republicans are running it) are unable to get basic grammar right (‘terrorist’ when they mean ‘terrorists’)
It was on the watch of President Bush that we got hit, FYI.
No, I’m not a trial lawyer, but I do not believe that corporations should have the rights of an individual, nor do I believe that believing that one is acting in the best interest of one’s state excuses crfime (Adolph Eichmann was a law abiding patriot, by his lights and those of most of his fellow citizens).
Gosh, for someone who is so hoity toity you need to learn how to spell. It’s ‘crime’ not ‘crfime’. And no, he’s not a trial lawyer he just plays an obnoxious person in real life.
In just a few months this current administration has demonstrated a far greater amount of corruption than any perceived corruption in the Bush Administration.
“Posted By: nobody important
Comment:
Accuracy in facts don’t matter to liberals Sam, only their feelings.”
haha… really??? like the towel head comment and the crazy repeating of the nonsense spewed by Glenn Beck, et al, are based on fact?? really?? this subject is going to stir emotion, period, so don’t try to pretend like all these posts defending the alleged sending of an innocent man to a foreign country to be tortured simply due to the color of his skin or nation of origin in the name of keeping us safe is not about emotion.
If, what this person is alleging is true, it is wrong, plain and simple. In no way would I defend a terrorist or in any way “protect” him via the Constitution, and neither would any of our leaders of any party; my concern is the innocents that get punished in the name of security. The “towel head” language throwing bigots on this sites seem to feel differently, and that is simply Un-American in my opinon. Nobody should be treated like a terrorist unless they are one… and you can’t just imprison 70 people without evidence for fear that they “might” be a terrorist… that’s just not American… to hear this defended by the same people calling our President Hitler or communist is INSANE… it is Hitler that rounded up innocents, and it is the communists that throw their enemies in prison without evidence.
Let’s all use a little common sense and make sane, rational, arguments. But, this Beck-ification of our discourse is sickening.
1) someone earlier made a true statement, that terrorists don’t belong to any country. because of that don’t lay claim to any geneva convention protection.
2) rights of the individual is important, because if we did not have this why would we allow the suspected folks in GTMO the right to counsel. a right to a trial. problem i have with this one, is the right to a speedy trial. how long do they have to be held in jail?
3) i know we all agree that terrorism is wrong. we would all like that everyone just get along with each other. here in america we do allow religious freedom and in many states/cities you will see synagoges of both muslim and jewish. they can actually live together and the churches in some case are beside each other. we can get along, so not all muslims are the bad guys you make them out to be. just because a few bad apples, we claim them all bad? how many german-americans here in the US, would be very upset that you called them HITLER or connected with that regime? i know i would because i am an army-brat and my mother is german. so get off the bandwagon about one nation or another is bad or good. we, as a country, are like individuals, are unique. its just a matter of respect w/o bias to any human traits.
4) it was right to stop and check folks, but to retain w/o actual factual knowledge? this i do find as a problem. they should have compensated that individual for retention and sent to syria who in turn was tortured. this would be like the police had a warrant and broke into my house only to find out they had the wrong house. they will have to pay damages to my house and my emotional distress.
And of course the public comments by liberals during the Bush administration were all dignified and respectful. Rubbish. Typical response from a liberal. You have never read a Beck book so you are an expert. You complain about shouting and don’t recall the whining from James Carvill and all the Clinton hitmen in the 90’s. Typical response, ok for you, not ok for your opponents. If you understood history at all you would know that politics have always been dirty. People that think their lives are going to be less due to lying politicians have a right to emotional responses. Political discourse, even when it doesn’t agree with you viewpoint or mine, is certainly part of our right to free speech. By the way, I did complain about the towel head comment. That type of automatically charged word or phrase doesn’t advance any arguements. Last refuge of people unable to come up with a real point.
When it is all said and done by all sides, take a moment and pray for the people who are protecting your rights to say and write the things you want to here or anywhere in this great country.
I will only add that one of my sons is leaving his chosen career in the military because the current administration just does not care for the soldiers on the ground.
“Former Attorney General John Ashcroft and one of his hardline lieutenants” … I see another begining to yet another “totally un-biased” recounting of the news and history.
How about just reporting the news accurately and without your personal bias’s thrown into the article to make you feel better. The only thing scarier than any possible mistakes made by Ashcroft is the way professional reporters just cannot report the news in an unbiased fashion anymore … this is what may be the down fall of our country not the terrorists.
And as for Ashcroft and his hardline lietenant … I thank them for their service.
I am all for spirited debate, but have grown very weary of the mindless and baseless accusations relative to Beck, Rush, Rove, Hannity, O’Reilly, etc.
It’s very easy to make the now chic complaints about these people. However, what I NEVER hear or read is something intellectual who accuse them of being so dangerous. What have they done or said that is so terribly wrong? I continue to wait for something substantive in lieu of name calling and hysteria.
Sure, these individuals have a take or an opinion. Sure, they can be polarizing. Everyone certainly has every right to disagree with their opinions or takes. But the undeniable fact is that they are simply reacting to and forming an opinion on things done, said and/or written by Obama, Pelosi and others on the left — nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, disagree all you want because passionate debate is a good thing. However, let’s not trivialize things by ignoring facts, statements and/or actual events.
No one should ever be able to escape the consequences of their actions. Ever, under any circumstances.
I would like to see every official of the government held to account as an individual for every single consequence of their actions.
Even better if the corporate veil could be not only pierced, but destroyed; every officer, employee and stockholder personally responsible under the law for every action taken by the entity.
I find this to be beyond Offensive.
These men were doing their jobs in a time to total TERROR and anyone that goes after them should be Ashamed to look themselves in the Mirror.
Have they Forgotten the TERROR?
I Just Pray none of us has to see it again, but with actions like this, you can bet it will. Shameful.
Sherry-
Perhaps yopu are ignorant of the Geneva Convention and the US agreement to not torture. In addition, have you heard of habeas corpus? No one has the right to violate human rights in the name of going after terrorists, especially not the US AG. Maybe you need to study the Constitution and Rules of Law a bit more so that you understand that our country is so great because we do afford rights to all people, even suspected terrorists.
Will the next Republican administration be seeking charges against Speaker Pelosi and President Obama?
All of this crap about protecting the rights of terrorist will prove to be a fatal mistake for many in the future as they now know to what extent we will go and where we will not go to defend ourselves. Dont think that this is a law enforcement issue, thats what happened prior to 9/11/01. We will be hit again and liberal judges and media along with the Obama administration will be to blame for it.
How can even anyone think about something like this when Roman Polanski is still free???
Beth, The Geneva Convention does not apply to Terrorist! PERIOD. They are not soilders wearing a uniform from a country who signed the accords.
So a little water in the nose of a guy who wants to kill you is not necessarily a bad thing in my book. Stop being a wuss. Thats why the Iranians are laughing at Obama. They know he is a wuss and they will do nothing for him because of it.
Oh and I forgot Habeus Corpus and the US constitution only applies to US Citizens while in the United States. This does not apply to foriegn born Terrorist. So yes it would apply if it were some towel head in Dearborn MI who was born here but goes outside his house and cheers when two planes ram into a skyscraper. Yes he has the protection of Habeous Corpus, but dont let me get my hands on him. Then Habeous Corpus would apply to me.
This wasn’t an act of civil disobedience. How quick we forget the thousands of individuals who died due to this act of war. It is easy to ignore, like the Speaker of the House, the actions taken at this time of crisis prevented further attacks on our country.
Why do you always have to bring everything back to the current administration? We had eight years of total corruption and you defend that? Were you not around when Obama was elected by an overwhelming majority?
“Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.”
Just because something is legal or not legal does not necessarily make it right or wrong. Laws are created by politicians and politics change over time, one way or the other. You need to dig deeper than just stating torture is illegal, therefore it was wrong. You must remember the time and circumstances around 9/11/2001. Hiroshima was illegal, but was it wrong? I remember watching those people jump out the windows of the twin towers, the screaming people. I can still smell the acidic smell of the smoke in the aftermath. The crying families and the funerals, but most of all I remember the paper flyers all over Manhattan with the pictures of missing people that a family member had taped on a wall or window. I remember because, I WAS THERE! working for AIG. I do not fault the CIA or our President at the time for doing everything in their power to prevent another event. If I could have gotten my hands on one of those three high level terrorist, I would have killed them. Not a question in my mind. In a comparison, water boarding would have been something they would have wished for.
Finally some sane people in the Insurance industry who don’t get all of their news from Rove and Beck.
Sam, you exposure your ignorance with your statement of “US constitution only applies to US Citizens while in the United States. This does not apply to foreign born Terrorist.” Since the Constitution is a document to stipulate the form and function of the Federal Government, it does indeed cover terrorists. The point of the constitution is to provide for a clear articulation of the rules and role of government – it is not meant to stipulate the laws with regard to the population (this is the realm of State Constitutions). So indeed, if the Constitution says something like no unreasonable punishment or indefinite detention is allowed (as it does), that rule still applies to the Government even if they are interning a terrorist, provided he is within the control of the US Gov’t. For the Federal Gov’t to be Constitutionally allowed to disregard the inalienable rights of these enemy combatants, it would require an amendment specifically stating Gov’t can disregard the rights of non-citizens. Since we have no such amendment yet, terrorist are vested with the same rights as you have, technically.
Just because we disagree with you we’re insane??? That figures.
Beth, I dont think you and I agree on what should be done regarding the legal situation with the prior administration. Nor do I believe they should be subject to legal proceedings. I believe they should be given an award for keeping us safe for the last 8 years. Sorry.
Right on! Thanks to the two parties that you mention in your last sentence, we’re on our way down the s___ chute. Will lawyers still be allowed to sue, once we formally become a Socialist Republic?
May I suggest that we simply employ Islamic interrogation tactics and punishment. The enemy neither fears nor respects the USA for being nice to them. We could behead all of the remaining terrorists in Gitmo and save Barry Obama some time so he can work on important stuff like getting the Olympics to Chicago.
My friends who were murdered on 9 11 are looking down on us and wondering what happened to America
Sam, I would have agreed with you if you left out the stupid towel head comment. This is not a productive use of language. On the other hand, even the French are laughing at the stupidity of our current President. All our old friends in the world now know they are not of value to us. Beth, I don’t listen to Beck, but I glanced at one of his old books in the store last night and he makes a lot more sense than any liberal poster I have read on this site and others. Liberals accuse conservatives of having closed minds when the most closed minded people in this country are liberals.
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin.
The omission of those key qualifiers-“essential” and “little”- makes all the difference in the world. Ben Franklin has been hijacked to endorse an untenable and deadly view that no sacrifice of any liberty for any amount of safety at any time should ever be made. Funny how liberals always forget to use all the words in a quote.
Accuracy in facts don’t matter to liberals Sam, only their feelings.
I will retract the towel head comment when I hear one muslim american say – Allah Bless America or come out publicly against radical islamist’s. I have yet heard a cleric publicly form a protest against Alqueda. When I see and hear this I will retract my towel head comment.
It appears as though we want to pit a bunch of boy scouts agains a band of trained terrorists. I wonder what kind of merit badge we get for that? Thank heavens the VP and those other patriots were protecting us. I guess now we have to interrogate now by withholding ice cream.
Are you a trial lawyer?
Nobody, your right, Liberals argue with an emotional outburst of feelings backed up by laws made by socialist politicians. Conservatives use logic and reason backed up by personal responsiblity. Funny how when liberals protest they are peaceful and when conservative elderly people show up its a mob. Well the country now has awakened for its apathy towards government and now is alive with desent. Heres another correct quote for my liberal friends,
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson
Well we are awake now!
Anyone else notice that the JBL (Jack Boot Lickers) who are tumescent at the thought of a police state (as long as Republicans are running it) are unable to get basic grammar right (‘terrorist’ when they mean ‘terrorists’)
It was on the watch of President Bush that we got hit, FYI.
No, I’m not a trial lawyer, but I do not believe that corporations should have the rights of an individual, nor do I believe that believing that one is acting in the best interest of one’s state excuses crfime (Adolph Eichmann was a law abiding patriot, by his lights and those of most of his fellow citizens).
Gosh, for someone who is so hoity toity you need to learn how to spell. It’s ‘crime’ not ‘crfime’. And no, he’s not a trial lawyer he just plays an obnoxious person in real life.
In just a few months this current administration has demonstrated a far greater amount of corruption than any perceived corruption in the Bush Administration.
“Posted By: nobody important
Comment:
Accuracy in facts don’t matter to liberals Sam, only their feelings.”
haha… really??? like the towel head comment and the crazy repeating of the nonsense spewed by Glenn Beck, et al, are based on fact?? really?? this subject is going to stir emotion, period, so don’t try to pretend like all these posts defending the alleged sending of an innocent man to a foreign country to be tortured simply due to the color of his skin or nation of origin in the name of keeping us safe is not about emotion.
If, what this person is alleging is true, it is wrong, plain and simple. In no way would I defend a terrorist or in any way “protect” him via the Constitution, and neither would any of our leaders of any party; my concern is the innocents that get punished in the name of security. The “towel head” language throwing bigots on this sites seem to feel differently, and that is simply Un-American in my opinon. Nobody should be treated like a terrorist unless they are one… and you can’t just imprison 70 people without evidence for fear that they “might” be a terrorist… that’s just not American… to hear this defended by the same people calling our President Hitler or communist is INSANE… it is Hitler that rounded up innocents, and it is the communists that throw their enemies in prison without evidence.
Let’s all use a little common sense and make sane, rational, arguments. But, this Beck-ification of our discourse is sickening.
1) someone earlier made a true statement, that terrorists don’t belong to any country. because of that don’t lay claim to any geneva convention protection.
2) rights of the individual is important, because if we did not have this why would we allow the suspected folks in GTMO the right to counsel. a right to a trial. problem i have with this one, is the right to a speedy trial. how long do they have to be held in jail?
3) i know we all agree that terrorism is wrong. we would all like that everyone just get along with each other. here in america we do allow religious freedom and in many states/cities you will see synagoges of both muslim and jewish. they can actually live together and the churches in some case are beside each other. we can get along, so not all muslims are the bad guys you make them out to be. just because a few bad apples, we claim them all bad? how many german-americans here in the US, would be very upset that you called them HITLER or connected with that regime? i know i would because i am an army-brat and my mother is german. so get off the bandwagon about one nation or another is bad or good. we, as a country, are like individuals, are unique. its just a matter of respect w/o bias to any human traits.
4) it was right to stop and check folks, but to retain w/o actual factual knowledge? this i do find as a problem. they should have compensated that individual for retention and sent to syria who in turn was tortured. this would be like the police had a warrant and broke into my house only to find out they had the wrong house. they will have to pay damages to my house and my emotional distress.
***
so where do we stand?
Father of 2 Soldiers,
I offer my deepest gratitude to you and your children for the sacrifices given on our behalf.
Thank you.
And of course the public comments by liberals during the Bush administration were all dignified and respectful. Rubbish. Typical response from a liberal. You have never read a Beck book so you are an expert. You complain about shouting and don’t recall the whining from James Carvill and all the Clinton hitmen in the 90’s. Typical response, ok for you, not ok for your opponents. If you understood history at all you would know that politics have always been dirty. People that think their lives are going to be less due to lying politicians have a right to emotional responses. Political discourse, even when it doesn’t agree with you viewpoint or mine, is certainly part of our right to free speech. By the way, I did complain about the towel head comment. That type of automatically charged word or phrase doesn’t advance any arguements. Last refuge of people unable to come up with a real point.
When it is all said and done by all sides, take a moment and pray for the people who are protecting your rights to say and write the things you want to here or anywhere in this great country.
I will only add that one of my sons is leaving his chosen career in the military because the current administration just does not care for the soldiers on the ground.
“Former Attorney General John Ashcroft and one of his hardline lieutenants” … I see another begining to yet another “totally un-biased” recounting of the news and history.
How about just reporting the news accurately and without your personal bias’s thrown into the article to make you feel better. The only thing scarier than any possible mistakes made by Ashcroft is the way professional reporters just cannot report the news in an unbiased fashion anymore … this is what may be the down fall of our country not the terrorists.
And as for Ashcroft and his hardline lietenant … I thank them for their service.
Glenn
I am all for spirited debate, but have grown very weary of the mindless and baseless accusations relative to Beck, Rush, Rove, Hannity, O’Reilly, etc.
It’s very easy to make the now chic complaints about these people. However, what I NEVER hear or read is something intellectual who accuse them of being so dangerous. What have they done or said that is so terribly wrong? I continue to wait for something substantive in lieu of name calling and hysteria.
Sure, these individuals have a take or an opinion. Sure, they can be polarizing. Everyone certainly has every right to disagree with their opinions or takes. But the undeniable fact is that they are simply reacting to and forming an opinion on things done, said and/or written by Obama, Pelosi and others on the left — nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, disagree all you want because passionate debate is a good thing. However, let’s not trivialize things by ignoring facts, statements and/or actual events.