Agree “Worried Taxpayer”. No company or entity is too big to fail. That was one of the arguments. One great thing about American business is that when a large company fails (and it should have been AIG) there are plenty of people, with money and more prudent strategies, to pick up the carcass and turn into something better.
so, why are we so worried? it’s not the gov’t job to settle contracts. since those contracts were signed by the company and approved by their board of directors, they have to be honored. if america is so worried, then you should become and active investor of a company and become and active shareholder. but the gov’t should not be questioning this activity because it was before the bailout. with all the secrecy of paying things to here and there, including those investors that were paid. problem, an investor knows that there are risk associated that money. they should have not sued or asked for their full investment back. this company (AIG) has made many fools and the money we will probably never see. which means as a taxpayer, i should not have to pay any taxes (LOL – that will probably never happen either).. but where will it end? will the gov’t ever stop giving money? will it ever stop wasting on taxpayer dollars on frivilous meetings — steroids, toyota, and many others…
so, how do we stop this mess?
1) limit time in office w/in the gov’t…
2) any meeting that does not to be addressed as a national crisis or issue, and is held, should be charged to the states for their budget (this would alleviate the reason for spending the fed $$) just to show that this individual has to put their name on something…
3) recoup of any money given, including foreign aid – stop waiving it to come back to us, afterall, we already in debt!
A business associate pointed out, as this debacle was coming to the fore, “Capitalism without bankruptcy is like religion without hell.” Would bankruptcy have prevented these “no or poor performance” bonuses? “The legislation actually made it easier to pay these bonuses out.” Sounds like the government was outsmarted during the bailout process, the private sector proving more savvy than the public. Or, are they all members of the same club? Does one have the others’ back? The public’s pocket continues to be picked.
Funny thing…. look at the headline of the article and it reminds me of what the Dems have been doing for years… they just reward the bottom of the barrel failures. As I heard at a meeting of community bankers the other day.. “When did America go from being the land of equal opportunity to the land of equal end results?”
We have rewarded failure on the Govt level for so long and they get upset when it is done on the private sector.
Next corporate decision will go like this…. “Who cares if we lose the lion share… Uncle Sam will print more and bail us out”.
Which just backs up my saying that there should be no such thing as “Too big to fail”. We should have let them go down and bitten the bullet way back when. NOW the politicians want to jump on that wagon…too little too late. A free market system only works efficiently when we keep our grubby little hands off of it…ALL the time.
what AIG did with credit default swaps was wrong and irresponsible – no question. But what amazes me is that the banking deregulation that generated this product (credit default swaps) all goes back to Clinton, Charlie Rangel and Chuck Schumer and their desire to make sure everyone lives the “American Dream” of homeownership – whether they could afford it or not, whether they were responsible enough to save $$$ for it or not. WHAT ABOUT Rangel and Schumer??? Those losers should bail us out with their cash lined pockets…read this @ WSJ.com http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574376720192072820.html
Wudchuk – yes, these attorneys/politicians do need term limits – if the president has to have a term limit so should these idiots.
This whole thing cracks me up! There are all these people out there worrying about the dreaded “S” word (socialism), many of them members of Tea Party movement. Well, this is the Free Market baby, and this is what happens. Does anybody really think that anyone is going to be able to tell a corporation how to pay their employees? Talk about socialism! I don’t understand it but if there is a company out there that is willing to pay for incompetence, that’s the free market. Congress and the present and past administrations should have had the guts to let them fail. They should be more concerned with regulating the risks rather than worrying about amounts of money being paid to employees. But then, that makes too much sense and we all know that NO politician has any sense.
Well suttonmom, once the government bailed out AIG they all became employees of mine as a taxpayer. So THIS is socialism, this is not the free market. And yes, since I am funding your nonsense with my tax dollars I should get a say in if, how and how much of a bonus you should get. We SHOULD have let them fail, but we did NOT. That is not the free market.
Cher, I don’t know why you are getting huffy with me cause it’s not my nonsense. I’m just pointing out that all those people who are afraid of socialism don’t really want a free market either. They want to be able to tell corporations how to compensate their employees. They want a market that is risk free. If you have a market like that, it isn’t a free market.
Voters have for decades rewarded politicians who have failed; with additional terms in office. Those who headed those failed companies, are now the regulators (they got rewarded, too). Now, when those who failed in the private sector fail, why not reward them too? What came first – the politicians or the private sector?
The problem I have with this whole situation is that we are the ones who “get the bill” for all of these failures.
In retrospect, the method of the bailout was all wrong. The U.S. government didn’t owe the counterparties or the financial executives anything and AIG was effectively bankrupt. The government had every right and duty to the taxpayers to let AIG go down and then agree to payout whatever rescue money was indicated by necessity and good judgement. These payments would then be totally negotiable and did not have to relate at all to what the “now” bankrupt AIG owed or didn’t owe either under contract or otherwise. As usual, we screwed up.
Check the article above and many more. Why do you think the payment through AIG to GS was never negotiated? The same reason Bear Stearns was allowed to collapse. To make sure the former GS employees- most of our treasury department – and biggest contributor to our House and Senate candidates- didn’t lose a dime. As a matter of fact, GS stockholders made a fortune on the fall of Bear Stearns.
GS recouped EVERY DIME they risked because we, the taxpayers, actually gave it to them to be put on the books as profit. By funneling it through AIG Paulson and Bernanke made sure GS didn’t have to pay it back.
Our Gov’t isn’t stupid- the private sector didn’t ‘pull one over on them’. They all made damn sure none of them lost a dime and we paid the bill.
Follow the money.
exactly my point from several articles earlier, why should it matter the size of the company. or or or, was it that the congressman (several of them) had invested in AIG and knew they would not see any money back from them. um.. has anyone looked into that? if so, i think we might a way to sue UNCLE SAM/congress for not being unbiased and only saving their tails.
as far as wall street – they don’t control these companies either. it’s up to the shareholders to control the company policy and contracts, especially in controlling who’s on the board of directors and the payment contracts. if the contract does not have a bad clause section and only a reward section, you are bound to lose not matter what. again, this is not wallstreet’s responsibility nor our gov’t. if a mom & pop company can fail, why not a big one?!
Conceptually the private sector does not reward failure. Our Government as it sits today rewards failure. Not just in the case of the bailouts, but now as a philosophy (system).
Take from those who work hard and pay taxes, and give to those who often choose a different lifestyle.This is not the America many of us grew up in.
The Bailouts were corrupt and wrong, and without the bailouts there would be no bonuses, because there probably wouldn’t have been an AIG left standing without the taxpayers. AIG, General Motors, Chrysler, and Saks should have reaped what they sowed, instead of burdening America with their poor decisions.
The jobs bill was a joke, and we sure don’t need a repeat. The Health Care Bill is also filled with corruption, and opportunity to gain for a few.
Unfortunately I and many other Americans have become disappointed in the way our Nation is being governed by a few politicians. Today Congress approval rating stands at 14%. Need I say more?
Agree “Worried Taxpayer”. No company or entity is too big to fail. That was one of the arguments. One great thing about American business is that when a large company fails (and it should have been AIG) there are plenty of people, with money and more prudent strategies, to pick up the carcass and turn into something better.
contract contract contracts!
so, why are we so worried? it’s not the gov’t job to settle contracts. since those contracts were signed by the company and approved by their board of directors, they have to be honored. if america is so worried, then you should become and active investor of a company and become and active shareholder. but the gov’t should not be questioning this activity because it was before the bailout. with all the secrecy of paying things to here and there, including those investors that were paid. problem, an investor knows that there are risk associated that money. they should have not sued or asked for their full investment back. this company (AIG) has made many fools and the money we will probably never see. which means as a taxpayer, i should not have to pay any taxes (LOL – that will probably never happen either).. but where will it end? will the gov’t ever stop giving money? will it ever stop wasting on taxpayer dollars on frivilous meetings — steroids, toyota, and many others…
so, how do we stop this mess?
1) limit time in office w/in the gov’t…
2) any meeting that does not to be addressed as a national crisis or issue, and is held, should be charged to the states for their budget (this would alleviate the reason for spending the fed $$) just to show that this individual has to put their name on something…
3) recoup of any money given, including foreign aid – stop waiving it to come back to us, afterall, we already in debt!
A business associate pointed out, as this debacle was coming to the fore, “Capitalism without bankruptcy is like religion without hell.” Would bankruptcy have prevented these “no or poor performance” bonuses? “The legislation actually made it easier to pay these bonuses out.” Sounds like the government was outsmarted during the bailout process, the private sector proving more savvy than the public. Or, are they all members of the same club? Does one have the others’ back? The public’s pocket continues to be picked.
I agree Chuck C.
Funny thing…. look at the headline of the article and it reminds me of what the Dems have been doing for years… they just reward the bottom of the barrel failures. As I heard at a meeting of community bankers the other day.. “When did America go from being the land of equal opportunity to the land of equal end results?”
We have rewarded failure on the Govt level for so long and they get upset when it is done on the private sector.
Next corporate decision will go like this…. “Who cares if we lose the lion share… Uncle Sam will print more and bail us out”.
Which just backs up my saying that there should be no such thing as “Too big to fail”. We should have let them go down and bitten the bullet way back when. NOW the politicians want to jump on that wagon…too little too late. A free market system only works efficiently when we keep our grubby little hands off of it…ALL the time.
what AIG did with credit default swaps was wrong and irresponsible – no question. But what amazes me is that the banking deregulation that generated this product (credit default swaps) all goes back to Clinton, Charlie Rangel and Chuck Schumer and their desire to make sure everyone lives the “American Dream” of homeownership – whether they could afford it or not, whether they were responsible enough to save $$$ for it or not. WHAT ABOUT Rangel and Schumer??? Those losers should bail us out with their cash lined pockets…read this @ WSJ.com http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574376720192072820.html
Wudchuk – yes, these attorneys/politicians do need term limits – if the president has to have a term limit so should these idiots.
TERM LIMITS FOR EVERYONE OF THE GOOD OLE BOYS IN CONGRESS!!!
REMEMBER, WE HAVE ONLY 200 PLUS DAYS TO GET THE WORD OUT TO “VOTE THEM OUT” THEN THE NEWBIES WILL UNDERSTAND WHO THEY WORK FOR!!!!
IT IS TIME TO TAKE BACK AMERICA!
AMEN!!!! Texas Agent
And another “AMEN” to that, term them, churn and boot them out! Give us all back our Beloved America!!
This whole thing cracks me up! There are all these people out there worrying about the dreaded “S” word (socialism), many of them members of Tea Party movement. Well, this is the Free Market baby, and this is what happens. Does anybody really think that anyone is going to be able to tell a corporation how to pay their employees? Talk about socialism! I don’t understand it but if there is a company out there that is willing to pay for incompetence, that’s the free market. Congress and the present and past administrations should have had the guts to let them fail. They should be more concerned with regulating the risks rather than worrying about amounts of money being paid to employees. But then, that makes too much sense and we all know that NO politician has any sense.
Well suttonmom, once the government bailed out AIG they all became employees of mine as a taxpayer. So THIS is socialism, this is not the free market. And yes, since I am funding your nonsense with my tax dollars I should get a say in if, how and how much of a bonus you should get. We SHOULD have let them fail, but we did NOT. That is not the free market.
Cher, I don’t know why you are getting huffy with me cause it’s not my nonsense. I’m just pointing out that all those people who are afraid of socialism don’t really want a free market either. They want to be able to tell corporations how to compensate their employees. They want a market that is risk free. If you have a market like that, it isn’t a free market.
Voters have for decades rewarded politicians who have failed; with additional terms in office. Those who headed those failed companies, are now the regulators (they got rewarded, too). Now, when those who failed in the private sector fail, why not reward them too? What came first – the politicians or the private sector?
The problem I have with this whole situation is that we are the ones who “get the bill” for all of these failures.
In retrospect, the method of the bailout was all wrong. The U.S. government didn’t owe the counterparties or the financial executives anything and AIG was effectively bankrupt. The government had every right and duty to the taxpayers to let AIG go down and then agree to payout whatever rescue money was indicated by necessity and good judgement. These payments would then be totally negotiable and did not have to relate at all to what the “now” bankrupt AIG owed or didn’t owe either under contract or otherwise. As usual, we screwed up.
If Wall Street does not stop these obscene bonuses for failure, they’re going to find an angry mob.
And that mob won’t be demanding the bonuses be cut off.
They’ll be demanding HEADS be cut off.
You Big Business morons better fix this before it fixes YOU.
Check the article above and many more. Why do you think the payment through AIG to GS was never negotiated? The same reason Bear Stearns was allowed to collapse. To make sure the former GS employees- most of our treasury department – and biggest contributor to our House and Senate candidates- didn’t lose a dime. As a matter of fact, GS stockholders made a fortune on the fall of Bear Stearns.
GS recouped EVERY DIME they risked because we, the taxpayers, actually gave it to them to be put on the books as profit. By funneling it through AIG Paulson and Bernanke made sure GS didn’t have to pay it back.
Our Gov’t isn’t stupid- the private sector didn’t ‘pull one over on them’. They all made damn sure none of them lost a dime and we paid the bill.
Follow the money.
exactly my point from several articles earlier, why should it matter the size of the company. or or or, was it that the congressman (several of them) had invested in AIG and knew they would not see any money back from them. um.. has anyone looked into that? if so, i think we might a way to sue UNCLE SAM/congress for not being unbiased and only saving their tails.
as far as wall street – they don’t control these companies either. it’s up to the shareholders to control the company policy and contracts, especially in controlling who’s on the board of directors and the payment contracts. if the contract does not have a bad clause section and only a reward section, you are bound to lose not matter what. again, this is not wallstreet’s responsibility nor our gov’t. if a mom & pop company can fail, why not a big one?!
Conceptually the private sector does not reward failure. Our Government as it sits today rewards failure. Not just in the case of the bailouts, but now as a philosophy (system).
Take from those who work hard and pay taxes, and give to those who often choose a different lifestyle.This is not the America many of us grew up in.
The Bailouts were corrupt and wrong, and without the bailouts there would be no bonuses, because there probably wouldn’t have been an AIG left standing without the taxpayers. AIG, General Motors, Chrysler, and Saks should have reaped what they sowed, instead of burdening America with their poor decisions.
The jobs bill was a joke, and we sure don’t need a repeat. The Health Care Bill is also filled with corruption, and opportunity to gain for a few.
Unfortunately I and many other Americans have become disappointed in the way our Nation is being governed by a few politicians. Today Congress approval rating stands at 14%. Need I say more?