I suppose they feel they have to try but see no way Obamacare will be overturned. The only sure way to overturn it is legislatively however I doubt the repubs will ever get the 2/3 vote they need to do so. Like it or not; we are stuck with this….
well, it’s going to be a battle to at the supreme court level, since it’s partly a matter of state soveriegnty. matter of fed’s going to fine or raise taxes to accomplish this feat. personall, it should be an option and not mandated…
Fortunately SCOTUS still has a relatively strong view of the constitution. Obama and his minions has clearly tread all over states rights – among other constitutional issues. There’s a chance this will get overturned.
Can anyone say “Fort Sumpter?”
I am so sick of these senators or congress people putting words in my mouth. Where were these states when the INSURERS WERE FILING THE RATE INCREASES IN THEIR STATES!Had the states done the right thing from the beginning we wouldn’t be in this mess. At least our current government is taking accountability and offering a solution other then KILL BILL-just kookey talk!
OI have read several opinions that the supremecy clause will trump the law suit and unfortunately that is probably correct. The wiser course of action is individual than class action suit alleging the law is infringing on our individual constitutional rights. the Feds or states can regulate and dictate terms on any voluntary activity (owning a vehicle, driving a vehicle etc) but cannot dictate you engage in that activity i.e. buy insurance
GRAY CAT: THE ONLY WAY TO OVER-RIDE THIS IS WITH ENOUGH VOTES AFTER THE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS. EACH INDIVIDUAL NEEDS TO FIND OUT HOW THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS VOTED AND VOTE AGAINST THEM!!!! I AM NOT DEMO NOR REPUB. YOU CAN BET YOUR A**, I WILL VOTE FOR THOSE WHO LISTENED TO THE PEOPLE AND VOTED AGAINST IT—DEMO OR REPUB!
CHECK OUT THE TEA PARTY!
The Tea Party is made up of a bunch of middle-class (at best) Republicans who have a lot of anger, but not a lot of well thought-out messages.
If this law is repealed, which it won’t be, then I want a new one put in place that says the following: no insurance = no medical care. If you don’t have auto insurance, EVERYTHING comes out of your pocket. Why should health care be any different? Oh right, because the people of this country want to have their cake and eat it too…
DEAR DUH: I AM A MEMBER OF THE TEA PARTY AND NOT A REPUBLICAN WITH A LOT OF ANGER! JUST FED UP WITH OBAMA AND HIS SPENDING AND HIS HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!! SEVERAL LOCAL RACES HAVE BEEN WON BY THOSE THAT SUPPORT WHAT THE TEA PARTY IS—-CONTROL BACK TO THE INDIVIDUAL AND NOT JUST GOVERMENT HAND-OUTS!!!
If an insurers paid out $101,500,000 per month in Oregon for 250,000 individual insureds claim payments and expensed another 11,000,000 in expenses to do that, then the average premiums are $450 per insured per month.
If claims payments go up 4% for medical inflation, and utilization goes up 11% (more people using more services causing more claim payouts) then the $450 rate has to go up 15% to stay even, or $517.50. So why should insurers keep the rate at $450?
I guess you are saying insurers should operate at a loss until they go bankrupt?
Oh, buy the way, health insurers in Oregon, per the state’s report made less than 1% profit last two years, and less than 3% prior eight year, and the Great Omama even said the cost isn’t in insurance company profits.
So, why shouldn’t the price go up, if the cost and number of claims go up? Are you an idiot, zelot, liberal with only emotional charged rhetoric to spew like the rest?
Not a lot of anger, huh? What’s with the message in all caps then? Anyway, I sure hope you voiced the same fervor during the last administration, with its unprecedented spending. I love how ‘spending’ is the new hot topic, but Republicans (or Tea Partyers) didn’t seem to care much when it was in the name of oil for money.
There is no way any federal court will rule in favor of states on this issue. To do so would upset to power congress has always had to affect interstate commerce. These AGs (Republicans – go figure) know they have no shot but they will think nothing of wasting their state’s and the court’s time and money in their pursuit to play politics. If they really feel they can affect changes in this bill they should zero in on this quote from this article:
“While the bill has been signed into law, the critical details of its implementation are far from fixed”
They are barking up the wrong tree here. Implementation is the only side of this equation where these folks, who say they care about health care (big laugh), can do something that really helps.
Mike, go back under your rock. Are you actually employed somewhere? If so, you are stealing money. Go read a book and try to come up with something semi-intelligent.
Where were you Tea Party morons when Medicare Part D was passed? Read up on who wrote the bill and rammed it (Reconciliation!!) down our throats. HTey same guys are now criticizing Obama and making stuff up (pulling the plug on Grandma) along the way. Then look at the implemenation of Part D. and try to figure it out. Tea Party is not Repbulican? Where were you guys over the last 9 years where the last group of idiots who held the majority (congress, senate, white house) took a budget surplus and turned it into perpetual red ink. What was the Republican response to the broken health care system when they were the majority?
I LIKE THE WAY ALL CAPS LOOK! SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ANYONE THAT HAS A DIFFERENT OPTION THAN YOU!!!!!!!BET YOU ARE A DEMO!!!!!FREE EVERYTHING AS OBAMA WILL PAY FOR EVERYTHING FOR ME!
Yes, the Repubs did spend alot of money we didn’t actually have- but does that give the Dems a free pass to spend over 400% more?
Have you compared this years budget deficit to previous years? The current CBO estimated budget deficit for 2009 was $1.85 Trillion USD- that one year is about equal to the entire 8 years of Bush deficits. More bad news, the CBO estimate for 2010 deficits is over $1.2 Trillion.
When is the last time you reviewed an itemized bill from a doctors office or hospital? Medical providers (not all) have been forced to charge more in order to get the crumbs they get! Who are you kidding? Let’s stick with the issues! It’s not necessary for you to personally attack anyone, unless maybe you are a product of your environment. I would have hoped that this would be a intelligent open discussion. Where did you get your facts?
…they didn’t scream about medicare D because the tea party isn’t “for” anything except getting rid of Obama because they just don’t like him. I’ll leave the “why” up to you.
Mr. Nugget. The Bush administration never put Iraq war spending in the budget. When Obama came in, it was one of the first moves the OMB did under his watch. Also, the new (not so new anymore) guy inherited much of what was put in place (Part D. etc.) by the old Bush guard.
To Texas Agent: I don’t have a problem at all when someone has a different opinion. Quite the contrary, actually. I just don’t appreciate hypocritical opinions based on one-sided research (i.e. only 1/2 the facts).
The Government is overwelming itself to the point of collapse, then everyone will look to it for support. Thats when you have the pieces in place for Socialism or Communism. If you dont believe it look at Venezuela and Chavez. Everyone loved him now no media coverage allowed, he has his own television show and he gave away everyones property to the poor.
If the poor is the majority then you only need to satisfy them and you can get elected in a democracy if and when it gets too bad, you go to Socilism or Communism.
ok, first of all congress waste toooo much money… look at the various committees that have to have their name in the news over things that are not a matter of national interest, for example the baseball steroids.
we hear the phrase interstate commerce… first of all healthcare is not interstate commerce. they are like banking institutions, why do you think we can’t just transfer money from one bank to another w/o having to take the money in cashier or cash to get to an out of state bank. so it will be shot down! you can not regulate that it has to be purchased. if it were that was, why not regulate that we all get a free education this includes college/university degrees! we don’t mandate that every get a vehicle to drive, but we do mandate they have coverage in case of an accident. if they want to so-call this to interastate commerce, then they need to think about how to handle all road laws being the same, how come in some states we can text and drive, other states we can have a radar detector, on some states, the police will allow us to run 65 despite it’s only 55… i think the gov’t over stepped its authority!
Health Insurance in Oregon, an annual report prepared by the Department of Consumer and Business Services (DCBS), focuses on the role of commercial health insurance in Oregon found at the following website:
Want to see really high administrative costs? Try our State plan, the Oregon Medical Insurance Pool for comparison, or worse yets, the Oregon Health Plan. So, just what is the lower cost alternative, private plans or State plans?
So it sounds like it was pretty much mirrors the Medicate Advantage Plan…..financially failing….paid for by federal monies! I don’t profess to know all the answers but would hope that somehow we will be able to make a difference and stand up for what’s right! And I certainly on believe 50% of what I see and nothing what I hear, and always like to know the source. If there was more transparency in government and giant corporations maybe all of this could have been avoided.
Ok, I think that what we should do is overturn the Obamacare as you call it. As I see it, anyone who works and has healthcare or not, is paying for those who do not have healthcare anyway, so I think we should let well enough alone. NOT. I If anyone of you nay sayers can come up with a plan that will protect me, the working fool, from having to pay the medical bills of those whe choose not to insure themselves because they know that people like me will continue to pay taxes and their bills, and if you can come up with a plan that will protect me from having to pay for the illegal immigrants health care ALONG WITH PAYING FOR MY OWN HEALTH CARE… Bring it forward! I will listen, anything is better than listening to stupid politics–It is not about Dem or Repub-It is about US folks. Use the energy you expend here to help design a good program!
OK here you go:
1) The two (now third) largest entitlements were enacted by democrat majorities and signed by democrat presidents. Social Security, Medicare and now Obamacare
2) 47% of households pay zero income tax.
3) Dept of Defense fiscal year to date spending 273,929,000,000.
4) Health and Human Services spending year to date 342,045,000,000.
5) Social Security Administration year to date spending 308,563,000,000
6) Current year to date budget deficit 651,602,000,000.
I got the info form this right wing website that anyone can checkout. http://fms.treas.gov/mts/mts0210.pdf
Go ahead libs, let’s see your arguments.
Dear Duh and the rest of those who want to see America destroyed: WAKE UP! This plan does not go into effect till 2014, which most dumb citizens don’t realize. WE WILL BE BROKE BY THEN AND WE ARE ALL SCREWED. LOOK AT CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK.
Good job vlad!
Sad thing is the people who voted for the current sitting President and congress think they will save money or get health care for free. Nothing is for free. It might well be free on the front side, but think of this or they should. If the tax paying base (who own businesses) pay more they pass on that added cost to who? ALL of the people including the 46% who are for Obamacare. What does that mean. HaHa. The very people who supported this bill and Legislation will end up paying more somewhere else. Guess they havent figured out that the old bait and switch plan(oldest sales tool in the book) was used to cause them to support something that simply wont work because the paying people will get tired of paying and paying and paying. Come Novemeber, best thing to do is express ourselves with a 100% turn out at the voting booth and eliminate the legislators who supported any part of this. Lets get rid of them with the system that currently supports them. We are the people and we can make this change but we have to get out and vote. I for one will not vote for anyone who supports taking my freedoms and independence away which includes freedoms of choice. Funny, the entire world wants what we have and come here for healthcare and to earn livings because of opportunity. Our own government is thwarting opportunity. We must get rid of them. Ifd truth be known(and they wont tell) the legislators have created an incredible golden goose by holding the jobs they hold. They get away with almost anything and protect each other no matter what. We need to take that away. Vote Vote Vote.
…but a D- for achievement.
1) 32 million uninsured? Please cite your source. Did they count everyone in the US and count those that had and those that did not have insurance?
2) An estimate is not a fact. CBO scored for future receipts and expenditures. If I have 100 to invest and expect a 100% return, then CBO would tell me I have 200 at the end of the year. You and I both know 100% is not possible, but CBO only scores what is given them. Projections are a guess, I gave you actual numbers on receipts and disbursements. Other than the 32,000,000 figure you gave all other figures you gave are not facts, but projections.
3) Polls are opinions. Please do not confuse these with facts.
Thanks for the effort, but it is achievement that counts.
PS thank you TxLady for your kind words.
Yes, Vlad. You Googled some facts that may (or may not) be relevant to the new health care laws. This does not consitute an argument and it certainly does not make you superior to liberals. The point of my post was to show that anyone can find ‘facts’ at any time to support any position. They don’t mean much unless you put them in context and your rationale at this point is in line with the typical conservative approach – complain and snivel but offer no real solutions.
The most pathetic part is that you refuse to acknowledge how deeply flawed our current health care system is while simultaneously refusing to find any good in the new laws. Also typical of the conservative way of thinking – glass is always half empty and I’ll throw a temper-tantrum if I don’t get my way. Nothing postitive has come out from the Right in a very long time. Republicans swooped in with the last administration and repeatedly beat-down the country until it turned into a sorry shell of what it used to be (while making millions to put into their own pockets with the avian-flu scare, the “war on terror” in our own country, and the war in Iraq). I’m tired of the partisan politics in the country, but people like you make it hard to work as a team when you throw the all-emcompassing ‘liberals’ word around and pretend like only one side has all of the answers. Grow up.
Hey Duh, what the hell is wrong with you? Everything liberals touch turns to crap. Are you aware of what is happening in California and New York. Are you aware social securtity is officially bankrupt? What is your president doing or saying about this? NOTHING. Yes, health care needs fixing, but Barry’s plan is not the answer. Oh, by the way, did you hear Stupak is retiring? Another liberal heading for the hills rather than face an embarassing defeat in November. Go back to your free medical marijuana.
I commend you for your remarks of which have been valuable! For the record don’t assume that everyone that has commended the fed’s in doing something is a LIBERAL
…to your post but so little space and time.
1) I did not google my facts but got them from the Treasury Department. You got a problem with the numbers, then take it up with Tim Geithner.
2) I never said our system of health care delivery wasn’t deeply flawed, it is. But putting bureaucrats in charge is not a solution. I am a capitalist and prefer capitalism.
3) Never said I was superior to anyone. I do not have a Harvard law degree, but a community college BS in Marketing.
4) I will not get into an argument about the war on terror, only to state this: We as a nation need to put every resource to defeat these radicals that want to kill us.
5) You are correct about the Republicans (not the right). They did not offer solutions to the problems faced and were properly not elected in ’06 and ’08. Why vote for socialism lite (aka medicare prescription drug 2003) when you can get full blown socialism (obamacare 2010).
If my facts are wrong, please show me and I will be the first to admit my error.
HEY, I AM NOT AS ANGRY AS I AM SCARED!!!I FORSEE HAVING TO FIRE EMPLOYEES BECAUSE OF THE HEAVY TAX BURDENS THAT ARE ALREADY STARTING! HOW ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS? THINK YOUR POLICY WILL GO DOWN-NOT A CHANCE!
WE ARE THE GREATEST COUNTY IN THE WORLD, EVERYONE WANTS TO COME HERE AND BE LIKE US—-SO WHY CHANGE IT? WHY ROB FROM THE RICH AND GIVE TO THE POOR—WHY ROB FROM THE WORKING AND GIVE TO THE LAZY? I WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS OBAMA! NOT BECAUSE HE IS BLACK BUT BECAUSE HE IS OUT TO DESTOY OUR FREEDOMS AND MAKE US A THIRD-WORLD COUNTRY!!!
Solutions are out there. It’s just that liberals are in super majority rule and the legislature is inept at the complexity of the insurance industry, and it’s too easy to attack the industry as it’s so productive politically to do so. Removal of the industry is also desired, one less conservative portion of American to contend with, and replacing it with government workers is also a plus for the cause.
Now, if you can get past that, try the next step: The “fault” doesn’t lie at anyone’s feet, other to day than those who use this flawed system. The system allows for us, the users, to demand to be fixed, and to fail to demand transperancy due to a lack of financial incentive to be responsible with the dollars spent to be fixed.
Examples, just try and shop back surgery. For that matter, schedule yourself for back surgery and try and get a price before the operation is performed.
Also, if you are recieving coverage from your employer, you have little to no appreciating for it, you pay little or nothing for it. Its a benefit you are to use.
Also, it’s too easy to live a sedentary life drinking diet colas but growing into obesity, when you know your doctor can give you a pill, and you’re fixed. Joint wear out, get a replacment, and so on.
Many state insurance departments require mandated coverages where special interests have gained access, this needs removed, so people can voluntarily purchase a low coverage option.
States can set up PPO networks as well, paying for higher quality and success rates and removing or limiting payment to providers who don’t perform, or who are escalating costs by duplicate services.
PPO’s can also be provided some form of Tort Immunity such is within the Federal Tort Claims Act, or various State Tort Claim’s Act.
This is doable people, if we can get the super majority to want this, or remove the super majority and negotiate. Problem is Liberals can’t support much of this, as it’s damaging to Union influence, government employees and attorney’s
The Federal Government has no authority to force the States to comply with this health care law. We still have a constitution which limits the Federal Governments reach. Read the 10th amendement. This can easily be defeated by the States by useing Jeffersons advice of nullification or as Madison refered to it as interposition.
The Supreme Court has been here before. Not sure of the date early 1800’s when the fugitive slave law was passed by congress. The law was an attempt to force each state to catch fugitive slaves and return them to the owners. The northern states used the authority of interposition and nullification to refuse to comply. Remember the power of the Federal Government is limited by the constitution. The interstate commerce clause won’t work here, this is an area that has been traditionally handled by the states.
ok, so let’s see here’s one fact i don’t see this as a fact but trying to get the americans to buy into this:
$143 billion: The estimated reduction in the deficit from the bill over the next 10 years (obviously, it will cost more than that to enact).
truthfully, we are not! in fact it’s going to cost not just more to enact but to keep intact. i think what most folks don’t realize, we have tooo many folks illegally in this country. are we going to pay for their medical? probably underneath this new bill. we already have folks that are legal, who don’t have coverage. we have folks that have been laid off, who don’t have health insurance. but the gov’t felt we needed mandated coverage and every has to have it or else! this is what gets me. yes, it be nice to have medical coverage for all, but to mandate that we have to pay for it or be fined/taxed for it just does not make sense.
look at the auto insurance, how many folks are driving without the insurance? yet, we mandate that we have it by the states because it’s a priviledge to drive a vehicle. in one state, you have to have insurance just to have that drivers license, but many get the insurance, then drop that insurance once they get a license. the state does not do a good job in following up on that and suspend/fine them for being without. so imagine how this healthcare is going to go? afterall, the states will not follow this bill, many already have enacted laws to invalidate that the fed’s can’t mandate/fine for not carrying coverage. we just took a census, do you really think we are going to keep tabs? we are not keep very good tabs on the illegals or getting them out of the country. so, who’s going to pay for all this? i can only see the deficit going up and up!
Also interesting that yesterday another poll indicated that only 12% of people polled approved of the law as written. Hardly anyone except Duh (appropriate name) thinks this does anything useful.
It looks to me as if compromise is no longer a good way to conduct the people’s business.
In 1883, Otto von Bismark, Chancellor for the Imperial German Government, persuaded the Reichstag to introduce compulsory medical insurance. They have had it since then.
Teddy Roosevelt said “”The supreme duty of the Nation is the conservation of human resources through an enlightened measure of social and industrial justice,” the platform said. “We pledge ourselves to work unceasingly in State and Nation for … the protection of home life against the hazards of sickness, irregular employment and old age through the adoption of a system of social insurance adapted to American use.”
The Germans have been accused of many things, but not being lazy or spendthrift.
Teddy Roosevelt’s 1912 platform included “”The supreme duty of the Nation is the conservation of human resources through an enlightened measure of social and industrial justice,” the platform said. “We pledge ourselves to work unceasingly in State and Nation for … the protection of home life against the hazards of sickness, irregular employment and old age through the adoption of a system of social insurance adapted to American use.”
All this ideological posturing I read here makes for good conversation, but is worth little in solving problems.
I own an insurance agency. Our premiums went up 100% last year, 40% the year before. Unable to pay for it,neither myself or my employees enjoy health insurance now.
For those of you who feel that really isn’t a problem, you should try for a year and see what you think at the end of the year.
If you don’t work for a large company, aren’t old enough for Medicare, poor enough for MedicAid, work for the government or wealthy — Our current system is broken.
Let’s have some full disclosure on these libertarian rants — how old are you?, do you have health insurance ?, if so are you paying for it directly?, do any of your family accept medical insurance from (Gasp!) the government (Medicare, etc)?, Social Security ?
Americans were told in the 90’s that the clinton’s plan would result in outrageously expensive and rationed medical care — the efficient private market would get the job done.
Well, guess what, we now pay 50% more than other countries and receive less favorable outcomes. Why do we want to continue down that path ?
My sense is that, some people don’t like Obama and therefore the Health Care Bill must be bad. I also think that a lot of this moaning is coming from the favored few who will now start paying a small amount of tax on income over $250,000. One of the many sweet heart deals the wealthy have said is their “entitlement”. Why in the world shouldn’t they pay taxes on their full income like most Americans.
Republicans had 8 years to govern — and when George W. Bush walked out of the White House, I think everyone would have to agree that the country wasn’t in as good shape as when he walked in (elected by the Supreme Court).
This is a real problem — Americans should be embarrassed that we tolerate such a pathetic system.
Or does the right just figure “I’ve got mine–the rest of you lazy bums just aren’t working hard enough”.
The top end of incomes in this country have had radical tax reductions in the past 30 years. I really can’t see that the country has benefited from that.
Unfortunately, here in WA State we have a renegade rightwing political ideologue occupying the AG’s office (until we can recall him, anyway). The majority of the people in this State are adamantly opposed to his political posturing and squandering of scarce public funds on this useless exercise.
Get your head outta your *** and get on board. The CT people don’t support this bill. Quit riding Dodds jock and start representing the people.
Sorry…even a joker needs to get serious sometimes.
I suppose they feel they have to try but see no way Obamacare will be overturned. The only sure way to overturn it is legislatively however I doubt the repubs will ever get the 2/3 vote they need to do so. Like it or not; we are stuck with this….
well, it’s going to be a battle to at the supreme court level, since it’s partly a matter of state soveriegnty. matter of fed’s going to fine or raise taxes to accomplish this feat. personall, it should be an option and not mandated…
Fortunately SCOTUS still has a relatively strong view of the constitution. Obama and his minions has clearly tread all over states rights – among other constitutional issues. There’s a chance this will get overturned.
Can anyone say “Fort Sumpter?”
This is not “Obamacare”. This is “Madoff-Care”. “Enron-Care” works, too.
I am so sick of these senators or congress people putting words in my mouth. Where were these states when the INSURERS WERE FILING THE RATE INCREASES IN THEIR STATES!Had the states done the right thing from the beginning we wouldn’t be in this mess. At least our current government is taking accountability and offering a solution other then KILL BILL-just kookey talk!
OI have read several opinions that the supremecy clause will trump the law suit and unfortunately that is probably correct. The wiser course of action is individual than class action suit alleging the law is infringing on our individual constitutional rights. the Feds or states can regulate and dictate terms on any voluntary activity (owning a vehicle, driving a vehicle etc) but cannot dictate you engage in that activity i.e. buy insurance
GRAY CAT: THE ONLY WAY TO OVER-RIDE THIS IS WITH ENOUGH VOTES AFTER THE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS. EACH INDIVIDUAL NEEDS TO FIND OUT HOW THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS VOTED AND VOTE AGAINST THEM!!!! I AM NOT DEMO NOR REPUB. YOU CAN BET YOUR A**, I WILL VOTE FOR THOSE WHO LISTENED TO THE PEOPLE AND VOTED AGAINST IT—DEMO OR REPUB!
CHECK OUT THE TEA PARTY!
The Tea Party is made up of a bunch of middle-class (at best) Republicans who have a lot of anger, but not a lot of well thought-out messages.
If this law is repealed, which it won’t be, then I want a new one put in place that says the following: no insurance = no medical care. If you don’t have auto insurance, EVERYTHING comes out of your pocket. Why should health care be any different? Oh right, because the people of this country want to have their cake and eat it too…
DEAR DUH: I AM A MEMBER OF THE TEA PARTY AND NOT A REPUBLICAN WITH A LOT OF ANGER! JUST FED UP WITH OBAMA AND HIS SPENDING AND HIS HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!! SEVERAL LOCAL RACES HAVE BEEN WON BY THOSE THAT SUPPORT WHAT THE TEA PARTY IS—-CONTROL BACK TO THE INDIVIDUAL AND NOT JUST GOVERMENT HAND-OUTS!!!
Dear I refuse to let them put words in my mouth.
If an insurers paid out $101,500,000 per month in Oregon for 250,000 individual insureds claim payments and expensed another 11,000,000 in expenses to do that, then the average premiums are $450 per insured per month.
If claims payments go up 4% for medical inflation, and utilization goes up 11% (more people using more services causing more claim payouts) then the $450 rate has to go up 15% to stay even, or $517.50. So why should insurers keep the rate at $450?
I guess you are saying insurers should operate at a loss until they go bankrupt?
Oh, buy the way, health insurers in Oregon, per the state’s report made less than 1% profit last two years, and less than 3% prior eight year, and the Great Omama even said the cost isn’t in insurance company profits.
So, why shouldn’t the price go up, if the cost and number of claims go up? Are you an idiot, zelot, liberal with only emotional charged rhetoric to spew like the rest?
Not a lot of anger, huh? What’s with the message in all caps then? Anyway, I sure hope you voiced the same fervor during the last administration, with its unprecedented spending. I love how ‘spending’ is the new hot topic, but Republicans (or Tea Partyers) didn’t seem to care much when it was in the name of oil for money.
There is no way any federal court will rule in favor of states on this issue. To do so would upset to power congress has always had to affect interstate commerce. These AGs (Republicans – go figure) know they have no shot but they will think nothing of wasting their state’s and the court’s time and money in their pursuit to play politics. If they really feel they can affect changes in this bill they should zero in on this quote from this article:
“While the bill has been signed into law, the critical details of its implementation are far from fixed”
They are barking up the wrong tree here. Implementation is the only side of this equation where these folks, who say they care about health care (big laugh), can do something that really helps.
Mike, go back under your rock. Are you actually employed somewhere? If so, you are stealing money. Go read a book and try to come up with something semi-intelligent.
Where were you Tea Party morons when Medicare Part D was passed? Read up on who wrote the bill and rammed it (Reconciliation!!) down our throats. HTey same guys are now criticizing Obama and making stuff up (pulling the plug on Grandma) along the way. Then look at the implemenation of Part D. and try to figure it out. Tea Party is not Repbulican? Where were you guys over the last 9 years where the last group of idiots who held the majority (congress, senate, white house) took a budget surplus and turned it into perpetual red ink. What was the Republican response to the broken health care system when they were the majority?
I LIKE THE WAY ALL CAPS LOOK! SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ANYONE THAT HAS A DIFFERENT OPTION THAN YOU!!!!!!!BET YOU ARE A DEMO!!!!!FREE EVERYTHING AS OBAMA WILL PAY FOR EVERYTHING FOR ME!
Yes, the Repubs did spend alot of money we didn’t actually have- but does that give the Dems a free pass to spend over 400% more?
Have you compared this years budget deficit to previous years? The current CBO estimated budget deficit for 2009 was $1.85 Trillion USD- that one year is about equal to the entire 8 years of Bush deficits. More bad news, the CBO estimate for 2010 deficits is over $1.2 Trillion.
When is the last time you reviewed an itemized bill from a doctors office or hospital? Medical providers (not all) have been forced to charge more in order to get the crumbs they get! Who are you kidding? Let’s stick with the issues! It’s not necessary for you to personally attack anyone, unless maybe you are a product of your environment. I would have hoped that this would be a intelligent open discussion. Where did you get your facts?
…they didn’t scream about medicare D because the tea party isn’t “for” anything except getting rid of Obama because they just don’t like him. I’ll leave the “why” up to you.
Tx agent. Why are you so angry? Take a vacation or something….Chill, bro.
Mr. Nugget. The Bush administration never put Iraq war spending in the budget. When Obama came in, it was one of the first moves the OMB did under his watch. Also, the new (not so new anymore) guy inherited much of what was put in place (Part D. etc.) by the old Bush guard.
To Texas Agent: I don’t have a problem at all when someone has a different opinion. Quite the contrary, actually. I just don’t appreciate hypocritical opinions based on one-sided research (i.e. only 1/2 the facts).
Cloward and Piven – Google it!
The Government is overwelming itself to the point of collapse, then everyone will look to it for support. Thats when you have the pieces in place for Socialism or Communism. If you dont believe it look at Venezuela and Chavez. Everyone loved him now no media coverage allowed, he has his own television show and he gave away everyones property to the poor.
If the poor is the majority then you only need to satisfy them and you can get elected in a democracy if and when it gets too bad, you go to Socilism or Communism.
THIS IS OBAMA’S PLAN!
ok, first of all congress waste toooo much money… look at the various committees that have to have their name in the news over things that are not a matter of national interest, for example the baseball steroids.
we hear the phrase interstate commerce… first of all healthcare is not interstate commerce. they are like banking institutions, why do you think we can’t just transfer money from one bank to another w/o having to take the money in cashier or cash to get to an out of state bank. so it will be shot down! you can not regulate that it has to be purchased. if it were that was, why not regulate that we all get a free education this includes college/university degrees! we don’t mandate that every get a vehicle to drive, but we do mandate they have coverage in case of an accident. if they want to so-call this to interastate commerce, then they need to think about how to handle all road laws being the same, how come in some states we can text and drive, other states we can have a radar detector, on some states, the police will allow us to run 65 despite it’s only 55… i think the gov’t over stepped its authority!
Health Insurance in Oregon, an annual report prepared by the Department of Consumer and Business Services (DCBS), focuses on the role of commercial health insurance in Oregon found at the following website:
http://insurance.oregon.gov/health_report/health-report_intro.html
Want to see really high administrative costs? Try our State plan, the Oregon Medical Insurance Pool for comparison, or worse yets, the Oregon Health Plan. So, just what is the lower cost alternative, private plans or State plans?
So it sounds like it was pretty much mirrors the Medicate Advantage Plan…..financially failing….paid for by federal monies! I don’t profess to know all the answers but would hope that somehow we will be able to make a difference and stand up for what’s right! And I certainly on believe 50% of what I see and nothing what I hear, and always like to know the source. If there was more transparency in government and giant corporations maybe all of this could have been avoided.
Ok, I think that what we should do is overturn the Obamacare as you call it. As I see it, anyone who works and has healthcare or not, is paying for those who do not have healthcare anyway, so I think we should let well enough alone. NOT. I If anyone of you nay sayers can come up with a plan that will protect me, the working fool, from having to pay the medical bills of those whe choose not to insure themselves because they know that people like me will continue to pay taxes and their bills, and if you can come up with a plan that will protect me from having to pay for the illegal immigrants health care ALONG WITH PAYING FOR MY OWN HEALTH CARE… Bring it forward! I will listen, anything is better than listening to stupid politics–It is not about Dem or Repub-It is about US folks. Use the energy you expend here to help design a good program!
OK here you go:
1) The two (now third) largest entitlements were enacted by democrat majorities and signed by democrat presidents. Social Security, Medicare and now Obamacare
2) 47% of households pay zero income tax.
3) Dept of Defense fiscal year to date spending 273,929,000,000.
4) Health and Human Services spending year to date 342,045,000,000.
5) Social Security Administration year to date spending 308,563,000,000
6) Current year to date budget deficit 651,602,000,000.
I got the info form this right wing website that anyone can checkout.
http://fms.treas.gov/mts/mts0210.pdf
Go ahead libs, let’s see your arguments.
But Vlad, it’s for the children. (the usual liberal excuse for taking our money and liberty)
Dear Duh and the rest of those who want to see America destroyed: WAKE UP! This plan does not go into effect till 2014, which most dumb citizens don’t realize. WE WILL BE BROKE BY THEN AND WE ARE ALL SCREWED. LOOK AT CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK.
…and I expect no responses. (At least a response based upon fact).
is that what they said to our parents, it’s for the kids!
so where is the money coming from? afterall, is not medicare/medicaid running out of money by the time i retire?
High Five Vlad! Nice job on the research, great presentation of the facts.
Here are some facts for you, Vlad:
32 Million: The estimated number of currently uninsured Americans who will receive coverage under the bill.
$143 billion: The estimated reduction in the deficit from the bill over the next 10 years (obviously, it will cost more than that to enact).
$16 billion: The amount drug manufacturers would pay the US between 2011 and 2019.
$47 billion: Health insurers would pay $47 billion over the same period.
$132 billion: Government payments to Medicare Advantage would be reduced by $132 billion over 10 years.
46%: The percentage of Americans in favor of health care reform, according to a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll.
45%: The percentage of Americans against the bill according to the same poll.
36%: The percentage of Americans who think the bill is a “good idea,” according to the same poll.
Was the bill perfect? No. But that’s what amendments are for…
Good job vlad!
Sad thing is the people who voted for the current sitting President and congress think they will save money or get health care for free. Nothing is for free. It might well be free on the front side, but think of this or they should. If the tax paying base (who own businesses) pay more they pass on that added cost to who? ALL of the people including the 46% who are for Obamacare. What does that mean. HaHa. The very people who supported this bill and Legislation will end up paying more somewhere else. Guess they havent figured out that the old bait and switch plan(oldest sales tool in the book) was used to cause them to support something that simply wont work because the paying people will get tired of paying and paying and paying. Come Novemeber, best thing to do is express ourselves with a 100% turn out at the voting booth and eliminate the legislators who supported any part of this. Lets get rid of them with the system that currently supports them. We are the people and we can make this change but we have to get out and vote. I for one will not vote for anyone who supports taking my freedoms and independence away which includes freedoms of choice. Funny, the entire world wants what we have and come here for healthcare and to earn livings because of opportunity. Our own government is thwarting opportunity. We must get rid of them. Ifd truth be known(and they wont tell) the legislators have created an incredible golden goose by holding the jobs they hold. They get away with almost anything and protect each other no matter what. We need to take that away. Vote Vote Vote.
A Ferrari would be perfect for my garage, unfortunately I can’t afford one… So I don’t buy one.
…but a D- for achievement.
1) 32 million uninsured? Please cite your source. Did they count everyone in the US and count those that had and those that did not have insurance?
2) An estimate is not a fact. CBO scored for future receipts and expenditures. If I have 100 to invest and expect a 100% return, then CBO would tell me I have 200 at the end of the year. You and I both know 100% is not possible, but CBO only scores what is given them. Projections are a guess, I gave you actual numbers on receipts and disbursements. Other than the 32,000,000 figure you gave all other figures you gave are not facts, but projections.
3) Polls are opinions. Please do not confuse these with facts.
Thanks for the effort, but it is achievement that counts.
PS thank you TxLady for your kind words.
Dear duh your post can be summed up best with this picture:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/chainchompboke/vader-fail.jpg
Vlad….well done!
…hitting an Obama fastball. (If he could ever get one over the plate.)
To all with your kind words, THANK YOU.
Work on your rational friends and relatives that mistakenly fell for the hope and change.
Yes, Vlad. You Googled some facts that may (or may not) be relevant to the new health care laws. This does not consitute an argument and it certainly does not make you superior to liberals. The point of my post was to show that anyone can find ‘facts’ at any time to support any position. They don’t mean much unless you put them in context and your rationale at this point is in line with the typical conservative approach – complain and snivel but offer no real solutions.
The most pathetic part is that you refuse to acknowledge how deeply flawed our current health care system is while simultaneously refusing to find any good in the new laws. Also typical of the conservative way of thinking – glass is always half empty and I’ll throw a temper-tantrum if I don’t get my way. Nothing postitive has come out from the Right in a very long time. Republicans swooped in with the last administration and repeatedly beat-down the country until it turned into a sorry shell of what it used to be (while making millions to put into their own pockets with the avian-flu scare, the “war on terror” in our own country, and the war in Iraq). I’m tired of the partisan politics in the country, but people like you make it hard to work as a team when you throw the all-emcompassing ‘liberals’ word around and pretend like only one side has all of the answers. Grow up.
Hey Duh, what the hell is wrong with you? Everything liberals touch turns to crap. Are you aware of what is happening in California and New York. Are you aware social securtity is officially bankrupt? What is your president doing or saying about this? NOTHING. Yes, health care needs fixing, but Barry’s plan is not the answer. Oh, by the way, did you hear Stupak is retiring? Another liberal heading for the hills rather than face an embarassing defeat in November. Go back to your free medical marijuana.
I commend you for your remarks of which have been valuable! For the record don’t assume that everyone that has commended the fed’s in doing something is a LIBERAL
As valuable as a 1.4 trillion deficit not counting health care. Say what? Of course, blame Bush.
…to your post but so little space and time.
1) I did not google my facts but got them from the Treasury Department. You got a problem with the numbers, then take it up with Tim Geithner.
2) I never said our system of health care delivery wasn’t deeply flawed, it is. But putting bureaucrats in charge is not a solution. I am a capitalist and prefer capitalism.
3) Never said I was superior to anyone. I do not have a Harvard law degree, but a community college BS in Marketing.
4) I will not get into an argument about the war on terror, only to state this: We as a nation need to put every resource to defeat these radicals that want to kill us.
5) You are correct about the Republicans (not the right). They did not offer solutions to the problems faced and were properly not elected in ’06 and ’08. Why vote for socialism lite (aka medicare prescription drug 2003) when you can get full blown socialism (obamacare 2010).
If my facts are wrong, please show me and I will be the first to admit my error.
HEY, I AM NOT AS ANGRY AS I AM SCARED!!!I FORSEE HAVING TO FIRE EMPLOYEES BECAUSE OF THE HEAVY TAX BURDENS THAT ARE ALREADY STARTING! HOW ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS? THINK YOUR POLICY WILL GO DOWN-NOT A CHANCE!
WE ARE THE GREATEST COUNTY IN THE WORLD, EVERYONE WANTS TO COME HERE AND BE LIKE US—-SO WHY CHANGE IT? WHY ROB FROM THE RICH AND GIVE TO THE POOR—WHY ROB FROM THE WORKING AND GIVE TO THE LAZY? I WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS OBAMA! NOT BECAUSE HE IS BLACK BUT BECAUSE HE IS OUT TO DESTOY OUR FREEDOMS AND MAKE US A THIRD-WORLD COUNTRY!!!
Solutions are out there. It’s just that liberals are in super majority rule and the legislature is inept at the complexity of the insurance industry, and it’s too easy to attack the industry as it’s so productive politically to do so. Removal of the industry is also desired, one less conservative portion of American to contend with, and replacing it with government workers is also a plus for the cause.
Now, if you can get past that, try the next step: The “fault” doesn’t lie at anyone’s feet, other to day than those who use this flawed system. The system allows for us, the users, to demand to be fixed, and to fail to demand transperancy due to a lack of financial incentive to be responsible with the dollars spent to be fixed.
Examples, just try and shop back surgery. For that matter, schedule yourself for back surgery and try and get a price before the operation is performed.
Also, if you are recieving coverage from your employer, you have little to no appreciating for it, you pay little or nothing for it. Its a benefit you are to use.
Also, it’s too easy to live a sedentary life drinking diet colas but growing into obesity, when you know your doctor can give you a pill, and you’re fixed. Joint wear out, get a replacment, and so on.
Many state insurance departments require mandated coverages where special interests have gained access, this needs removed, so people can voluntarily purchase a low coverage option.
States can set up PPO networks as well, paying for higher quality and success rates and removing or limiting payment to providers who don’t perform, or who are escalating costs by duplicate services.
PPO’s can also be provided some form of Tort Immunity such is within the Federal Tort Claims Act, or various State Tort Claim’s Act.
This is doable people, if we can get the super majority to want this, or remove the super majority and negotiate. Problem is Liberals can’t support much of this, as it’s damaging to Union influence, government employees and attorney’s
The Federal Government has no authority to force the States to comply with this health care law. We still have a constitution which limits the Federal Governments reach. Read the 10th amendement. This can easily be defeated by the States by useing Jeffersons advice of nullification or as Madison refered to it as interposition.
Well, of course. But what of the liberal states, like Oregon? They support the legislation.
Ok, what of states that get this to the supreme courts, who are being replaced with liberal legislate from the bench, constitutional interpretors?
This hangs so on a thread, the fundimentals of what this country was based on.
Damn, Obama really meant change!
The Supreme Court has been here before. Not sure of the date early 1800’s when the fugitive slave law was passed by congress. The law was an attempt to force each state to catch fugitive slaves and return them to the owners. The northern states used the authority of interposition and nullification to refuse to comply. Remember the power of the Federal Government is limited by the constitution. The interstate commerce clause won’t work here, this is an area that has been traditionally handled by the states.
ok, so let’s see here’s one fact i don’t see this as a fact but trying to get the americans to buy into this:
$143 billion: The estimated reduction in the deficit from the bill over the next 10 years (obviously, it will cost more than that to enact).
truthfully, we are not! in fact it’s going to cost not just more to enact but to keep intact. i think what most folks don’t realize, we have tooo many folks illegally in this country. are we going to pay for their medical? probably underneath this new bill. we already have folks that are legal, who don’t have coverage. we have folks that have been laid off, who don’t have health insurance. but the gov’t felt we needed mandated coverage and every has to have it or else! this is what gets me. yes, it be nice to have medical coverage for all, but to mandate that we have to pay for it or be fined/taxed for it just does not make sense.
look at the auto insurance, how many folks are driving without the insurance? yet, we mandate that we have it by the states because it’s a priviledge to drive a vehicle. in one state, you have to have insurance just to have that drivers license, but many get the insurance, then drop that insurance once they get a license. the state does not do a good job in following up on that and suspend/fine them for being without. so imagine how this healthcare is going to go? afterall, the states will not follow this bill, many already have enacted laws to invalidate that the fed’s can’t mandate/fine for not carrying coverage. we just took a census, do you really think we are going to keep tabs? we are not keep very good tabs on the illegals or getting them out of the country. so, who’s going to pay for all this? i can only see the deficit going up and up!
Also interesting that yesterday another poll indicated that only 12% of people polled approved of the law as written. Hardly anyone except Duh (appropriate name) thinks this does anything useful.
It looks to me as if compromise is no longer a good way to conduct the people’s business.
In 1883, Otto von Bismark, Chancellor for the Imperial German Government, persuaded the Reichstag to introduce compulsory medical insurance. They have had it since then.
Teddy Roosevelt said “”The supreme duty of the Nation is the conservation of human resources through an enlightened measure of social and industrial justice,” the platform said. “We pledge ourselves to work unceasingly in State and Nation for … the protection of home life against the hazards of sickness, irregular employment and old age through the adoption of a system of social insurance adapted to American use.”
The Germans have been accused of many things, but not being lazy or spendthrift.
Teddy Roosevelt’s 1912 platform included “”The supreme duty of the Nation is the conservation of human resources through an enlightened measure of social and industrial justice,” the platform said. “We pledge ourselves to work unceasingly in State and Nation for … the protection of home life against the hazards of sickness, irregular employment and old age through the adoption of a system of social insurance adapted to American use.”
All this ideological posturing I read here makes for good conversation, but is worth little in solving problems.
I own an insurance agency. Our premiums went up 100% last year, 40% the year before. Unable to pay for it,neither myself or my employees enjoy health insurance now.
For those of you who feel that really isn’t a problem, you should try for a year and see what you think at the end of the year.
If you don’t work for a large company, aren’t old enough for Medicare, poor enough for MedicAid, work for the government or wealthy — Our current system is broken.
Let’s have some full disclosure on these libertarian rants — how old are you?, do you have health insurance ?, if so are you paying for it directly?, do any of your family accept medical insurance from (Gasp!) the government (Medicare, etc)?, Social Security ?
Americans were told in the 90’s that the clinton’s plan would result in outrageously expensive and rationed medical care — the efficient private market would get the job done.
Well, guess what, we now pay 50% more than other countries and receive less favorable outcomes. Why do we want to continue down that path ?
My sense is that, some people don’t like Obama and therefore the Health Care Bill must be bad. I also think that a lot of this moaning is coming from the favored few who will now start paying a small amount of tax on income over $250,000. One of the many sweet heart deals the wealthy have said is their “entitlement”. Why in the world shouldn’t they pay taxes on their full income like most Americans.
Republicans had 8 years to govern — and when George W. Bush walked out of the White House, I think everyone would have to agree that the country wasn’t in as good shape as when he walked in (elected by the Supreme Court).
This is a real problem — Americans should be embarrassed that we tolerate such a pathetic system.
Or does the right just figure “I’ve got mine–the rest of you lazy bums just aren’t working hard enough”.
The top end of incomes in this country have had radical tax reductions in the past 30 years. I really can’t see that the country has benefited from that.
Unfortunately, here in WA State we have a renegade rightwing political ideologue occupying the AG’s office (until we can recall him, anyway). The majority of the people in this State are adamantly opposed to his political posturing and squandering of scarce public funds on this useless exercise.