Status of Legal Challenges to Obama Health Reform Law

December 13, 2010

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:09 pm
    Boonedoggle says:
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    All the more reasons why we should go to a single payer system.

    Admittedly, our health insurance CEO’s who receive $35 million per year in compensation will be replaced by Government administrators content to earn $135K per year, but more money can be directed toward patient care, rather than underwriting directed rationing models.

  • December 14, 2010 at 7:02 am
    wudchuck says:
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    health insurance we all do need but the cost of the medical itself is getting out of hand. if we allow this masquerade of all folks have to have insurance, it’s only going to increase the costs. how folks think it will reduce it is beyond me. how many folks live in section 8 housing? how many folks already on social security because of a handicap? how many folks rely on medicaid before they retire? how many folks will finally quit their job and force the gov’t to provide them for health insurance and social security? there are folks that just work just for having the medical and dental bene’s. what the gov’t can do, is allow everyone the opportunity to have health insurance! do not mandate that everyone has to have one. there are a few religions that don’t believe in the 21st century of medcines, you can’t make them get insurance. have we so focused ourselves on the mandate of health insurance we have not looked into our backyard and seen the gas prices rising AGAIN! you would think that after the BP disaster, they might rethink about the cost of gas and the associated products. here’s what is going to happen – price of gas goes up and that will be passed from the retailer to the consumer in a variety of ways, such as shipping and recieving costs; producing items because of the need for oil products;

    now the rich will enjoy being rich because they can afford elaborate health care, gas gussling cars, elaborate lifestyles and a variety of other things… but the middle of the road and below, their mandatory items to live by will go up and they will eventually have to apply for bankruptcy or poverty.

  • December 14, 2010 at 7:24 am
    Sarah says:
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    Now all these lazy liberals who would rather spend their days in some theoretical discussions of how they would like the government to take care them and of everyone else and provide healthcare, income redistribution and protect the weakest minded of our species from failure. Karl Marx and Stalin thought the same way and there philosophies were proven to be worst thing for the people who supported there plans, So you think that George Soros’s pupet Obama,Reid and Pelosi knows a better way to bring forth Communism/Socialism. Well I am not buying anything that George Soros wants for our country. The term “Fundamentally Change” our country was first coined by George Soros.

    REPEAL AND REPLACE HEALTHCARE!
    REPLACE OBAMA 2012

  • December 14, 2010 at 10:25 am
    Boonedoggle says:
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    Your comments regarding increasing costs of medical services are on-point, but the third party payer (i.e. private insurance) mechanism is simply siphoning off enormous amounts of funds that could be better directed toward patient care.

    Please explain to me how the typical Aetna policyholder acquired value from contributing to the Aetna’s CEO 2008 compensation package of $38.12 million?

    How many claim denials or policy cancellations are required to pay for the Health Insurance executives personal use of their companies corporate jets?

    How bout the huge amounts of money health insurers pay for lobbying or political donations?

    Most every other industrialized country in the world has an efficient single payer mechanism for providing basic health care. There is no reason why a similar system in the USA need to preclude
    allowing private “Cadillac” plans, offered in the private open market to allow the “above and beyond” benefits.

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm
    Sarah says:
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    The reason why the CEO makes so much money is because the company has to pay it to get that kind of talent. He earns it and you do not! The same reason that Tiger Woods makes so much money, He earns it. If he didnt someone would not pay him so much. That is the wonderful thing about our great country, Our country rewards hard work, sacrifice and talent with great riches and penalizes those who dont. So get off your A*s and go make enough to pay your health insurance premiums. Idiot!

    If not move to France.

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:32 pm
    TN says:
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    keeps up like this and it’s going to be class ACTION warfare and the only people benefiting(again) will be the lawyers.

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:33 pm
    Reality says:
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    Please remember that there is an investment portion to underwritng profits. Most CEOs of major corporations are earning investment profit… not direct U/W profit.

    This investment portion helps to creat even larger reserves and helps a company grow capital and lower prices – the problem is that the COST of healthcare is skyrocketing. Our president is too dumb to figure that one out.

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:34 pm
    Sarah says:
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    In regards to your position, Every CEO should make minimum wage and your elected officials should be the ones to decide how much he gets paid. That goes for Bank of America, Ford, 3M, Zerox, IBM, Etc……

    Liberal Socialist Democrats need to get off the class warfare and thank every rich person for hiring someone and buying one of those gas gusseling SUV’s and putting all those carpenters to work building their mansion and hiring the captain and crew to their enormous yachts.

    At least the President has figured it out with the Bush Tax Cuts…. Why cant you?

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:35 pm
    Maxwell says:
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    “The reason why the CEO makes so much money is because the company has to pay it to get that kind of talent.”

    That’s the biggest bunch of BS I’ve heard today. Aetna’s CEO did not found the company he works for. There was no personal risk involved in his position.

    This is why the gap between the haves and have nots is growing so wide.

    Boonedogle is absolutely right.

    Sarah is a suck-up and a moron.

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    wudchuck says:
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    well, in many cases these $$$ for a CEO is an approved solution by the board of directors and shareholders. some packages are straightout, others are based on company metrics (similar to professional ball players contracts). some of these packages can actually break a company because of the huge salary. in many cases, i bet they could have found someone as talented to run a company for way less. question would be how would a change of policy for mandated health coverage affect insurance companies, HUGE, because folks now have to purchase a policy. is it fair? NO! why? because as an american i have a choice of choosing a healthcare. like i have the right to purchase a car and drive with proper id and insurance. again, i have a choice! if i don’t use any medical for that year, are you going to reimburse me for being a great patient? NOT LIKELY! if my religion says that GOD can heal me and not man, are you going to penalize me? YES, according to the bill. but in reality, here’s the issue at stake. it is my choice to have the insurance and it should not be mandated that i have to have it. what it should be is that we can allow folks to have the ability to get health insurance.

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:40 pm
    Walter says:
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    Pretty darn funny. So your point is that a nameless, faceless technocrat making $135k a a year(?) is going to make the same if not better quality decisions about my healthcare than an executive paid to provide a comeptitively priced product and make money for shareholders? If you buy that, ask any person who used to live under the Soviet yoke how well THAT system worked.
    How about this-lets take away health insurance, dental insurance and vision insurance and make people buy directly from the provider. I think that prices would fall rapidly and with a market driven solution, people would then be able to make rational choices as far as how to spend their own money on the amount and quality of health care they want to purchase. Right now, I am held hostage to a health insurance company droid who has told me that a surgical procedure I want has to be done “in network” and oh by the way, there is no “in network dr” within 50 miles of me willing to do the surgery for what they are willing to pay and they won’t pay a dime for the “out of network dr”. The price for me to do this on my own dime is about $12k. This is for a procedure which will take about 20 minutes and I can go to work the next day. And for this, I pay almost $400/month in health insurance for my family and I with a $1250 deductible.
    And the gov’t is somehow going to do this better????
    Do away with all this crap, let me have my insurance money back and let me find my own dr and cut the best deal I can for myself.

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:43 pm
    Tom (just Tom) says:
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    You’re complaining about a 50 mile drive? How old are you, 80?

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:43 pm
    Anonymous says:
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    If he didnt earn the money someone else would be there. If not the company would go broke and could go broke if he does not earn the money he makes. The board of directors of a large corporation elects the very best person for the job and the competition is severe. I can tell by your post that you are not aware of the politics and perseverance it takes to make it to the top of a major fortune 500 company. If they do not perform another CEO is put in place, it happens all the time as it should, it is called survival of the smartest in large corporations.

    Every CEO will earn what they get eventually, or they will be let go and replaced by someone with more talent or potential.

    Its like atheletes, All of the best basketball players, baseball players either earn their money or get cut from the team.

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:54 pm
    Tiresis says:
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    Sarah

    Your political bent is getting in the way of your common sense here. Just because you keep screaming about class warfare (yet another GOP/right wing sound byte and propaganda poeice that you swallow hook, line and sinker) doesn’t make what Boondoggle and Maxwell are saying any less relevant.

    You do NOT have to pay that amount of money to get talent; this is a myth perpetrated by the insular good old boys who serve on interlocking and common boards of directors. This compensation issue has become a self perpetuating cycle controlled by this rarefied group.

    The compensation this country pays to its top CEO level is way out of line and has been for a long time.

    Ain’t nobody worth 38m a year unless he built his own company from the ground up…like a Bill Gates (who, by the way, has pledged to donate half his wealth).

    WHAT talents exactly are worth 38m, Sarah? The ability to swing a good golf club? Get serious. Cehck out some of the compensation levels paid to CEOs who are supposedly working for not for profits who get tax benefits paid for by you and me. This NFP deal is the biggest scam around; and these guys are paid very, very handsomely….for exactly what? A lot of these health insurers are allegedly nfps as well…..When are you going to challenge the egregious abuses of our tax system, our healthcare delivery system, and our corporate compensation without screaming inaccurate and unappropriate right wing propaganda bytes?

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:56 pm
    wudchuck says:
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    have you not heard that some of the regular folks can make great decisions, because many decisions of some of the wealthy guys are more to put money in their pockets and to help the needy! how many times has congress given themselves a raise w/o a blink of watching the national budget growing? they make more than enough money! if you are so into that the wealthy are the ones that can make solutions, i think you had better check again. the working majority is always about making their lives better but how many times have we seen the gov’t step in and take our liberties away or rights or privies? how long can you allow congress to get away with things? it’s not always about the president… remember, congress has to send it there to begin with…

  • December 14, 2010 at 12:58 pm
    Vlad says:
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    Sarah,
    Your use of the terms “liberal” and “socialist” are redundant.

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:08 am
    Mike N says:
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    You are a perfect example of why leftists cannot be trusted in any way, shape, or form. If you truly believe all you write, then start a health insurance carrier. If you really believe that low-cost healthcare can be delivered by low-level, low-paid beuracrats, then please start a company to prove your postulate.

    But, the problem with leftists is they never do that. Rather, they choose instead to take freedoms from people and turn them over to the government to try and run a pipe dream (examples: Social Security – BROKE and BANKRUPT, Medicare – BROKE & BANKRUPT, etc.), hoping it all works. And, of course, when it doesn’t, what do they do? Not blame the program and their limited vision. Rather, they blame EVERYONE ELSE.

    So, to review, if you feel there should be health carriers who model themselves on YOUR ideology, stop harrassing voters and start one. In other words, put YOUR money where your mouth is, instead of putting MY MONEY where your mouth is.

    What utter fools…

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:10 am
    Realist says:
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    BHO pays no attention and has NO respect for our Constitution as well as for the Courts. The sheep are being led down a path and productive people are being taxed out of existance. Why then you know it alls, don’t we all pay the same auto insurance premium????????? You must believe that is fair too??!!?? No discrimination regardless of the FACTS.

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:20 am
    Fred says:
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    First, SS and Medicare have an administrative cost of around 2% v private HC companies that run around 15% to 20%. SS checks seem to come in on time every month and Meidcare bills get paid without some CEO making millions. Funding issues are up to Congress not the administator.

    Finally, our personal tax rates, in 2009 and 2010, have been the lowest of the past 50 years. They are also the second lowest among industrized countries. Look it up. Please stop complaining about your tax burdens.

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:24 am
    Mike N says:
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    Vlad – I agree, and have pushed for some time to stop usinglanguage that is meaningless. “Liberal” refers to liberty, which is anathema to all programs espoused by the left, which steal individual liberty and remand it to the federal government. In all honesty, since this group of people is consistently trying to move this country to the left, away from freedom, I call them “leftists”. “Socialist” is not quite right, as there are many within that group who are far to the left of socialism, like the entire leadership of the democrat party.

    “Leftist” is really the only term that encmpasses all the elements of that deranged, slave-state mentality. And it really captures their desire to move the country as far to the left as possible, creating a freedom and rights-free monolithic fed, where all us individuals are forced to shut-up and kneel to mother government.

    What I always wonder is this: What happens to a person that causes them to abandon all desire for individual freedoms and responsibilities, instead demanding that all society take responsibility for their care? And I’m not referring to the handicapped. I’m referring specifically to those who are able in body and mind, but simply decide others should have to work, and take time away from our lives and families, on their behalf.

    It’s like a mental illness.

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:32 am
    Tiresis says:
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    Thanks Fred. Agree with you.

    furthermore, those that claim that the govt ruined SS, note that our illustious congress has been robbing that fund blind for decades; had the monies collected have been put truly into a “trust fund” and not used for general revenues, we wouldn’t have these issues. And so how is cutting the contribution 2% this year going to help that situation?

    As for Medicare, the drug addition under the Bush admin sealed that fate at the outset. You want to talk about unfunded? And how can you justify not letting the govt negotiate volume pricing on pharmaceuticals? That was a non starter out of the box.

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:36 am
    Mike N says:
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    You forgot to mention Social Security and Medicare are BROKE and BANKRUPT, having been grossly mismanaged by those worthless beauracrats and selfless politicians you so highly value. Those entrusted with operations of these programs have also stolen money (“lockbox” – HA! HA! HA!) from these programs to buy-off more votes by spending that same money elsewhere.

    BTW, if a private insurance company did what politicians and those managing these operations had done, they would be in jail right now, having been frog-marched publicly. Yet you espouse expansion of a system where those responsible for ruining the programs are instead allowed to continue forward, suffering no consequence for their mis-deeds.

    Private insurance companies are responsible to shareholders, clients, the market, and the lagal framework established for both accounting practices and fraud. And corporations can be brought down for fraud (Enron, World Comm, Madoff, etc.) Your heros in government are not held responsible and the fed cannot be brought down. If so, over 500 people (Congress, Senate, White House) would be brought up on fraud charges for GAAP violations alone.

    In the govt model, the democrats just keep stealing the money and tell you to pound sand and pay for their graft.

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:39 am
    Mike N says:
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    So, you point out government ruined SS, yet you want the government to ooperate our healthcare system in its entirety? Are you completely daft? What on earth are you smoking, as I want some of that passed over here.

    Why not let the felons run our prisons? Why not let child molestors run daycare? Why not let robbers run the bank? Oh wait. That’s what you are literally proposing!

    Please, THINK before you write.

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:45 am
    Tiresis says:
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    Mike, you need to go pay your copay and get some help…in anger management.

    The point made in a prior post is still valid; the cost to deliver the healthcare admin is significantly lower and also quite efficient; it is cost effective.

    When you crab about the costs, think the cheats and frauds (both on service receivers as well as service deliverers) which pervert the system.

    When you talk about giveaways, let’s also make sure that not only the Dems are indicted, but also the GOP who plays along until every election when it gets people like you to believe their propaganda.

    And while you see a “left wing” plot to abrogate personal freedoms and foster in government control over all I lives, I would tend to see a right wing plot to dismantle all social programs and social safety nets to create a economic underclass that can serve eventually as quasi slave labor for the ruling corporate classes. SEE HOW RIDICULOUS THAT SOUNDS? Well, that is how your rants sound to me. Watch what labels and terms you so lossely and inaccurately and inappriopriately bandy about.

  • December 14, 2010 at 1:56 am
    Tiresis says:
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    Don’t be an idiot, Mike. The bureaucrats and the worker bees make the system flow and are very cost effective. The elected officials of all of our past congresses have robbed the funds. The point is, the admin is MUCH more cost effective than in private healthcare…and always will be.

    Don’t you think that maybe the rule in the new law limiting non medical payouts to 15 or 20% might not have been a way to force efficiency so that people MAY have a better chance of purchasing health insurance by perchance making it more affordable? Or do you not think that a lot of dollars are diverted for other things….like high priced lobbyists, perhaps? You fail to see the “social” issues of a private healthcare industry, but only the “capitalistic” ones. If, with the services that it has chosen to render, it cannot perform both equitably and affordably, then its reason for being ceases to exist. I would venture to say that with its unfair business practices, its consolidation of companies available (nationally and within the states), its inefficient delivery system and fraud prevention initiatives, and its excessive upper management compensation, that this industry may well be cooking its own goose.

    Do YOU think that the healthcare insurers are “all that they can be?”

  • December 14, 2010 at 2:05 am
    nobody important says:
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    Please change your name Tiresis. You should call yourself tired old arguments. Your arguments are cut and paste garbage. The only CEO’s I know worked long and hard to get there and harder once they got there. That’s not true of every one, but I don’t use the every one of a class is bad arguments you moronic liberal shills use. Someone started calling you Cassandra. I didn’t connect you to that poster, but you use the same tired old arguments she used to use. Liberals always think they are smarter and usually aren’t. In your case I would say you aren’t.

  • December 14, 2010 at 2:08 am
    nobody important says:
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    SS and Medicare are two of the most corrupt programs in history. Do a little checking before posting, Fred. There has been a lot in the news the last few years about it. I think a private company can do a lot better than some government drone who has no performance requirements and can never be fired.

  • December 14, 2010 at 2:11 am
    nobody important says:
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    There’s another tired old arguement from Tiresis, Bush did it. Try having a thought instead of cutting and pasting other people’s trash.

  • December 14, 2010 at 2:21 am
    Realist says:
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    Why don’t we all pay the same auto premiums to be fair?????

  • December 14, 2010 at 2:49 am
    Vlad says:
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    … Lawrence O’Donnell don’t have a problem with the word “socialist”.
    Why can’t those on this board (and those in Washington) that want government run healthcare be honest with themselves?

  • December 14, 2010 at 3:02 am
    asdhfkljasd says:
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    Because the American public knows what socialism has and is doing to the european nations.

    It’s simply a bad system… just like communism, just like fascism.

    FREEDOM is the difference and FREEDOM is what makes this country great. You know the whole reason why brave Americans give their lives.

  • December 14, 2010 at 3:03 am
    Tiresis says:
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    you people are feeding off your own venom.

    you rants are stifling free expression and exchange of ideas.

    Too bad you have copted this site for your own narrow minded purposes. But, in true narrow minded fashion, you refuse to challenge yourselves and come up with pragmatic answers that answer pragmatic questions…just same old, same old.

    I assume you all have little earpieces so you can get your propaganda direct from Citizen Rove. Let’s hope you can continue to live in your dream world.

    OK, boys….goosestep on command…….

  • December 14, 2010 at 3:19 am
    nobody important says:
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    You are doing the real ranting Same Tired Arguments/Cassandra. But I have to admit I’m mad. I’m mad that people like you are so ready to surrender your freedom, my money and all of our property to redistribute the so called unfair balance in this country. I don’t come close to making $250,000 a year, but just because someone else does it doesn’t make them bad. It’s not your money to spend! Your arguments are tripe and you are the only truly mad (insane) person on this posting. Just another liberal, all feeling and no facts.

  • December 14, 2010 at 3:34 am
    Mike N says:
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    While I do not think the insurers are “all they can be”, I KNOW FOR A FACT, the government is wirhtless, as are the “workers” who make the scams they put together run “so smoothly”. “Government work” is a scam. And, most importantly, your belief the government can effectively run these programs runs counter to reality (and their own track record) is akin to belief in the Tooth Fairy.

  • December 14, 2010 at 3:41 am
    nobody important says:
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    I would thank Cassandra/Tiresis for an intellectually stimulating afternoon argument, but her points require no intellect, just the ability to regurgitate liberal talking points. I have always been curious on how some people will swallow any point, however pointless.

  • December 14, 2010 at 3:50 am
    Mike N says:
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    Of course it counds ridiculous, because it is.

    I realize it’s tough for leftists to understand this (considering the ideology is reflexive and emotional, rather than logical and sensible), but freedom is a zero sum game. Either rights and freedoms lie with the individual (as set forth in the Constitution and Bill of Rights), or with the government.

    You agree my rights should be stripped from me and taken by the government. Why on earth would anyone get mad at some fool attepting to steal their rights and freedoms?

    The very fact this has to be presented to you and entered into reality in your world is indication of either how little time you’ve devoted to understanding these topics, or what little education you’ve received in natural rights, The Constitution, and our democratic republic. Which is it?

    More importantly, why are you so cowardly as to want to give away your rights? I realize you most likely have done nothing to earn these rights. But, still, what has gone wrong with your mind that you no longer feel freedom is important? And, why do you feel the need to steal rights away from me, my family, and every other American in this country?

    See, this is whay leftist ideology leads ultimately to fascism. The government takes your rights away, one-by-one, until you are a no longer an individual. The government then takes over corporations (healthcare bill, GM, Chrysler, etc.), forcing the corporations to do their will (pay, services, products, offerings, etc.), not what the markets/people determine through economic freedom. Then, the government regulates all of it. This is where we are currently.

    And, unlike you, I like freedom, innovation, and a lack of government oversight on every single aspect of our lives.

    Once again, based upon what you’ve writeen here, you are a weak-mided child who needs mother government to “protect” you from all life’s issues and do your thinking for you. In other words, your parents failed.

  • December 14, 2010 at 3:57 am
    Mike N says:
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    Please keep in mind, “goosestepping” was performed chiefly by leftists, such as the National Socialist Party of Germany(better known as “Nazis”) and the Italian Army of WWII (better known as fascists), as well as the USSR, North Koreans, Red Chinese, and Cuba (i.e. communists).

    So, when you refer to “goosestepping”, please ensure you are aware of the fact it’s the international dance of leftists.

    Tiresis, you are a child. At least go find your mom and try the boilerplate leftist garbage on her first. That way, at least the most embarrassing posts can be avoided in the future.

    Perhaps the tiniest bit of coherence with the arguments? Is that really too much to ask for?

  • December 14, 2010 at 4:10 am
    Realist says:
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    You Libs all want to pay the same auto premiums too, huh?
    It’s only FAIR……….

  • December 14, 2010 at 4:12 am
    Wayne says:
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    There are so many disagreements posted it is difficult to decide where to start but I’ll try.

    There is nothing our governments do that cannot be done better and more efficiently by private enterpprise.

    CEOs make a lot of money because they can. If the stockholders don’t think they are worth it, they wouldn’t pay them that much and others wouldn’t be willing to purchase the company’s stock if the administrative costs were excessive; its called Capitalism.

    Class warfare is also mentioned, although I’m not sure how it fits into the discussion, I’ll just point out that when the Bush tax cuts were proposed and passed, it was touted by the Democrats and the media as a tax cut for the rich but now that they are about to expire, it seems it was a tax cut for everyone. I think that points to a bias against people who make a lot of money and a look at revenue showing the top 5% of wage earners pay more than 50% of the taxes collected and yet it is argued they aren’t paying their fair share proves it.

    As far as the government mandating I buy a product, I am sure that my premium will be tax deductible, I fully intend to deduct it. I am confident that the government will warrant the insurance they forced me to buy and I am sure that when this happens pigs will fly.

    It is not the business of the US Government to determine what products and services I need to have and short of collecting certificates of insurance from everybody, there is no way for them to track that what you declare as your insurer is true.

    Summing up, a single payer system will not work because those of us with some extra money will work outside the system, just as they do today in Canada, England and much of Europe. The American people are too stubborn to allow the government to pry this much into their private lives and there aren’t enough prison cells for all of the folks who will ignore the law if it should remain intact.

  • December 15, 2010 at 8:12 am
    Boonedoggle says:
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    Class warfare? Socialism? Entitlement to corporate jets? Wow? what crazy answers!

    My point is that some services are better suited to government, rather than private delivery. A good parallel can be fire protection. Early in our country’s history fire protection was provided by private competitive fire companies, often financed by fire insurance companies. Indeed they did advertise thru colorful firemarks.

    Nevertheless, society found that redundant fire departments were not the most efficient means of delivering public safety, and public fire departments were created.

    Applying the logic of many posters in this thread, I suppose they want to return to multiple, private, for profit fire protections companies.

    American way you say?

  • December 15, 2010 at 9:27 am
    Really? says:
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    Boonedoggle, saying that it makes sense for the government to handle health care because they handle our fire stations doesn’t make any sense.

    That’s the equivalent of saying the private industry should handle the military because they handle vehicle production.

    Two unrelated items. Fire stations have nothing to do with the our freedoms – it is simply the government’s job to protect us. Not take away our freedoms.

    You argument is just plain dumb. Sorry, I had to say it.

  • December 15, 2010 at 9:29 am
    joan the underwriter says:
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    Single payer is not the answer, as we see other countries are failing miserably from it. There is not enough money out there to pay for every illness, disease, cough, flu, etc for every single person. Anyone in insurance knows that the cost of care is going up and that throwing money at the problem isn’t going to solve it. Taking money from the “rich” wouldn’t solve it. Non-partisan studies are out there to show that you could take every penny from the rich and you could still not pay for all medical care for all citizens. The dollars are just not there. So, while the left is screaming about CEO pay and taking from the rich- the logic of it falls flat.

    We can’t have everything we want. We can’t have everything “free”, “cheap” or “reasonable”. Life doesn’t work that way, no matter how unfair it is. Some people are going to have more than us and we have to just accept it rather than look for ways to take what they have away. Living life being envious or jealous of others and wanting to “knock them down a notch” is no way to live. If the focus of our lives is worrying about what others have that we don’t- we live pathetic lives. Our focus should be on how to better ourselves or our situation- not on taking from someone else.

    Obviously neither side has the answers or we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in. It isn’t all Bush’s fault and it isn’t all Obama’s fault. It is all of our faults because we allow our government and politicians to play these games with us. They sit in Washington living the high life with tons of money, freebies galore, and pretend that what they are doing is “for the best” when all they really want is for us to keep electing them to power. Each sides’ “flock” follows what they are told, spews the talking points for their side, and re-elects the morons who cause most of the problems. The whole thing is disgusting.

  • December 16, 2010 at 2:16 am
    Tiresis says:
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    You all have proved my point beyond a reasonable doubt; you spew the propaganda and stifle others.

    OH, and by the way, for all of you politically science challenged, when I studied these things at a highly regarded institution with highly respected professors, Nazism was a RIGHT WING combo of the military, the industrial and the political segments. this, of course, led to the creation or at minimum the apologia for using slave labor and all the other good things that came with Nazism. By your own silly,misconstruals and definitions of socialism and communism, as well as liberalism and progressivism, clearly you can see that these isms approach opposite sides of the spectrum.

    ‘If you are going to label, let’s get the labels straight.

  • December 16, 2010 at 2:34 am
    Tiresis says:
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    And furthermore, there has ALWAYS been debate in this country about stirct interpretation vs. looser interpretation of the Consitution…of whether it is static or living document, whenther things must be re interpreted or changed (as in amending) as situations change.

    There has always been debate in this country about what level of social care we owe our fellow citizens.

    There has always been debate about graduated vs. flat taxes in this country.

    To think that those differently placed on those spectrums that you are are anti freedom, anti Constitution, anti American or socialist or communist is sheer ridiculousness. That you see those of us fellow citizens that disagree with your point of view on these spectrums as involved in some sinister plot is even more ridiculous.



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