If I was handed the responsibility of turning around one of these battleships, I would expect minimal compensation until the job was complete, then a large stock/cash bonus once the target was reached. Giving bonus compensation until the job is complete is not what the average citizen expects.
I would say until they have paid back the government (we taxpayers) they should not be receiving bonuses. Their bonus is the satisfaction once they pay us back. They are paid handsome salaries and don’t need anything else now.
Agree or disagree with the bailout of AIG, I think it is a bit disingenuous for the armchair pontificators to tell everyone what they would and would not do in this situation.
How many of us would really work for peanuts or some back-loaded deal based on a promise of future compensation? For heaven’s sake, people whine about getting a 2% raise when they thought they deserved a 3.5% raise (chump change compared to the money everyone simply expects AIG executives to simply walk away from).
And, by the way, there are ton of industries or companies that are in one way or another propped up by the government via targeted tax credits, subsidies or some form of “your scratch my back, I’ll scrath yours” patronage.
AIG just happened to be a huge deal with everyone based on its magnitude and timing. Let’s exhibit a bit of intellectual honesty by admitting this is a just a major example of business as usual for the federal government.
The tax code is complicated by design and will not be deconstructed by either party. In addition, both parties have proven incapable (probably better described as uninterested) of attacking the massive spending problem.
The reality of the matter is there really is no difference in whether the demon of the day is the AIG bailout, Government Motors, the tax code, entitlements, military spending, etc. Unfortunately, the electorate continues to empower politicians who perpetuate and worsen a system based on power derived from confiscation of income / wealth and spending other people’s money.
This forces everyone to engage in the patronage game and pay homage at the government altar in order to secure some sort of an advantage. It will not change until the electorate demands so. It stands to reason, then, that the situation is just as the electorate wants it. Sad, but very true.
Help me understand the role you are looking for government to pay. When and where was government run correctly? What is the golden age you want us to return to?
And by the way, given that the one year bonus (or back-loaded deal) we are talking about here is more than the average American will make in a lifetime and after salary, more in 3 months than the average American makes in a lifetime, tell me, where can I sign up? I think I can take the suffering.
It just keeps on keeping on – we, the lowly taxpapers keep getting the “raw” deal, the rich get richer and we continue to pay for it -this is disgusting and disappointing. Why not come out with a FLAT TAX ACROSS THE BOARD for EVERYONE regardless of who you are ie..say 15% that way the poor probably won’t have to pay, the middle income will get some break and the rich will finally pay what they s/h/been paying all along!! unfortunately it probably will not happen until the “piggy’s fly”!
J.S. – The point is I am not looking government to play a role in this type of situation. If you are looking for an example, how about Calvin Coolidge or William Howard Taft for starters. Presidents whose compass was driven more by minding our own business relative to world affairs, relying on the free market instead of government intervention and a Constitutional basis for federal legislation. They were not perfect, but a whole lot better than our current den of thieves.
Do we really need a tax code consisting of thousands of pages? Do we really need a monstrous and oppressive federal government and the associated fiscal insanity? If you or anyone else believes the answer is “yes” then I guess we’ll simply have to agree to disagree.
The problem is I and many others who would answer with an emphatic “no” are stuck with it unless we choose to move to another country. If a locality or state is mismanaged, then one can choose to move to another town or state. The commmunities’ and states’ ability to compete for business and residents is a critical element of our republic. A competitive system, by its very nature, can help keep everyone honest.
Unfortunately, the federal government’s monopoly is a killer, especially when they extend their reach beyond enumerated powers. Short of moving abroad and giving up one’s citizenship, we really don’t have much choice now do we?
And on the topic of the “suffering” you reference, it’s all relative and you know it. Some kid making minimum wage can’t imagine having the huge sums of money driven by an income of $50,000 and wonders how anyone with an income at this level could ever want for anything. What problems or “suffering” could there be for anyone making that kind of money?
Then he/she gets on in life and works up to a $50,000 salary. All of a sudden he finds the $50,000 is very nice, but he/she certainly wants more than the lifestyle it brings. He cannot even imagine having a six figure salary and can’t believe anyone making six figures could want for anything.
He/she then gets to six figures and the cycle continues.
Do these people make a ton of money? You bet they do. But let’s not forget that the vast majority of them have worked very hard and sacrificed to achieve. Instead of demonizing or criticizing them, it would probably be more appropriate to mind one’s own business or possibly give them a bit of respect for their achievements.
Are there dishonest and undeserving business executives of all types and incomes? Absolutely. But by the same token there are dishonest and undeserving janitors, car salesmen, underwriters, police officers, etc. who make more than someone else.
I think we need to get off the high horse, stop fixating on everyone else and take care of our own business. In many cases, there are legitimate reasons driving one’s achievement and there are legitimate reasons why others don’t achieve.
And, for heaven’s sake, maybe somone working as a janitor for the local school system is completely happy and content with his/her life and achievements.
During the period you mention, the U.S. was a second class power with sweatshops, child labor, etc, not an era I wish to return to.
And thank you for your accurate description of greed and how it corrupts. Daily, we see stories of executives who drove their company into bankruptcy paying themselves massive bonuses to stick around during the process. And they call teachers greedy.
I’m curious, Maxine, how you will define poor, middle and rich. Regardless, you say 15% flat across the board and then exempt all of the poor (not sure who) and give breaks to the middle (not sure who). Is that much different than what we have now?
And, by the way, be careful what you wish for because many of the rich you seem to resent would LOVE to pay only 15% as it would represent a fairly significant tax cut.
In case it has gotten past you all these years, but the upper income levels pay a disproportionate share of the income tax compared to their relative share of the country’s income.
And, yes, J.S. the free market takes care of sweat shops and other workplace issues. We had a steady stream of immigrants coming to the U.S. for jobs and opportunists took advantage of a glut of people in desperate need for work.
As business has to compete for labor, working conditions, compensation and benefits must improve in order for a business to attract good labor.
Greed is everywhere, but individuals and the free market identify it, expose and eliminate it.
You act as if these executives peform all these despicable activities in a vacuum with no accountability. Stockholders, customers, fellow employees, competition, etc. have the power to punish immoral and unacceptable behavior. There is also a little thing called rule of law to address illegal behavior.
However, just because you don’t like it and resent those making a lot of money does not necessarily make it wrong or illegal.
The real greed that far too often goes almost completely overlooked is in government. And, by the way, I’m not sure how brought teachers into this. Do you resent them, too?
If I was handed the responsibility of turning around one of these battleships, I would expect minimal compensation until the job was complete, then a large stock/cash bonus once the target was reached. Giving bonus compensation until the job is complete is not what the average citizen expects.
I would say until they have paid back the government (we taxpayers) they should not be receiving bonuses. Their bonus is the satisfaction once they pay us back. They are paid handsome salaries and don’t need anything else now.
Agree or disagree with the bailout of AIG, I think it is a bit disingenuous for the armchair pontificators to tell everyone what they would and would not do in this situation.
How many of us would really work for peanuts or some back-loaded deal based on a promise of future compensation? For heaven’s sake, people whine about getting a 2% raise when they thought they deserved a 3.5% raise (chump change compared to the money everyone simply expects AIG executives to simply walk away from).
And, by the way, there are ton of industries or companies that are in one way or another propped up by the government via targeted tax credits, subsidies or some form of “your scratch my back, I’ll scrath yours” patronage.
AIG just happened to be a huge deal with everyone based on its magnitude and timing. Let’s exhibit a bit of intellectual honesty by admitting this is a just a major example of business as usual for the federal government.
The tax code is complicated by design and will not be deconstructed by either party. In addition, both parties have proven incapable (probably better described as uninterested) of attacking the massive spending problem.
The reality of the matter is there really is no difference in whether the demon of the day is the AIG bailout, Government Motors, the tax code, entitlements, military spending, etc. Unfortunately, the electorate continues to empower politicians who perpetuate and worsen a system based on power derived from confiscation of income / wealth and spending other people’s money.
This forces everyone to engage in the patronage game and pay homage at the government altar in order to secure some sort of an advantage. It will not change until the electorate demands so. It stands to reason, then, that the situation is just as the electorate wants it. Sad, but very true.
Help me understand the role you are looking for government to pay. When and where was government run correctly? What is the golden age you want us to return to?
And by the way, given that the one year bonus (or back-loaded deal) we are talking about here is more than the average American will make in a lifetime and after salary, more in 3 months than the average American makes in a lifetime, tell me, where can I sign up? I think I can take the suffering.
It just keeps on keeping on – we, the lowly taxpapers keep getting the “raw” deal, the rich get richer and we continue to pay for it -this is disgusting and disappointing. Why not come out with a FLAT TAX ACROSS THE BOARD for EVERYONE regardless of who you are ie..say 15% that way the poor probably won’t have to pay, the middle income will get some break and the rich will finally pay what they s/h/been paying all along!! unfortunately it probably will not happen until the “piggy’s fly”!
J.S. – The point is I am not looking government to play a role in this type of situation. If you are looking for an example, how about Calvin Coolidge or William Howard Taft for starters. Presidents whose compass was driven more by minding our own business relative to world affairs, relying on the free market instead of government intervention and a Constitutional basis for federal legislation. They were not perfect, but a whole lot better than our current den of thieves.
Do we really need a tax code consisting of thousands of pages? Do we really need a monstrous and oppressive federal government and the associated fiscal insanity? If you or anyone else believes the answer is “yes” then I guess we’ll simply have to agree to disagree.
The problem is I and many others who would answer with an emphatic “no” are stuck with it unless we choose to move to another country. If a locality or state is mismanaged, then one can choose to move to another town or state. The commmunities’ and states’ ability to compete for business and residents is a critical element of our republic. A competitive system, by its very nature, can help keep everyone honest.
Unfortunately, the federal government’s monopoly is a killer, especially when they extend their reach beyond enumerated powers. Short of moving abroad and giving up one’s citizenship, we really don’t have much choice now do we?
And on the topic of the “suffering” you reference, it’s all relative and you know it. Some kid making minimum wage can’t imagine having the huge sums of money driven by an income of $50,000 and wonders how anyone with an income at this level could ever want for anything. What problems or “suffering” could there be for anyone making that kind of money?
Then he/she gets on in life and works up to a $50,000 salary. All of a sudden he finds the $50,000 is very nice, but he/she certainly wants more than the lifestyle it brings. He cannot even imagine having a six figure salary and can’t believe anyone making six figures could want for anything.
He/she then gets to six figures and the cycle continues.
Do these people make a ton of money? You bet they do. But let’s not forget that the vast majority of them have worked very hard and sacrificed to achieve. Instead of demonizing or criticizing them, it would probably be more appropriate to mind one’s own business or possibly give them a bit of respect for their achievements.
Are there dishonest and undeserving business executives of all types and incomes? Absolutely. But by the same token there are dishonest and undeserving janitors, car salesmen, underwriters, police officers, etc. who make more than someone else.
I think we need to get off the high horse, stop fixating on everyone else and take care of our own business. In many cases, there are legitimate reasons driving one’s achievement and there are legitimate reasons why others don’t achieve.
And, for heaven’s sake, maybe somone working as a janitor for the local school system is completely happy and content with his/her life and achievements.
During the period you mention, the U.S. was a second class power with sweatshops, child labor, etc, not an era I wish to return to.
And thank you for your accurate description of greed and how it corrupts. Daily, we see stories of executives who drove their company into bankruptcy paying themselves massive bonuses to stick around during the process. And they call teachers greedy.
I’m curious, Maxine, how you will define poor, middle and rich. Regardless, you say 15% flat across the board and then exempt all of the poor (not sure who) and give breaks to the middle (not sure who). Is that much different than what we have now?
And, by the way, be careful what you wish for because many of the rich you seem to resent would LOVE to pay only 15% as it would represent a fairly significant tax cut.
In case it has gotten past you all these years, but the upper income levels pay a disproportionate share of the income tax compared to their relative share of the country’s income.
And, yes, J.S. the free market takes care of sweat shops and other workplace issues. We had a steady stream of immigrants coming to the U.S. for jobs and opportunists took advantage of a glut of people in desperate need for work.
As business has to compete for labor, working conditions, compensation and benefits must improve in order for a business to attract good labor.
Greed is everywhere, but individuals and the free market identify it, expose and eliminate it.
You act as if these executives peform all these despicable activities in a vacuum with no accountability. Stockholders, customers, fellow employees, competition, etc. have the power to punish immoral and unacceptable behavior. There is also a little thing called rule of law to address illegal behavior.
However, just because you don’t like it and resent those making a lot of money does not necessarily make it wrong or illegal.
The real greed that far too often goes almost completely overlooked is in government. And, by the way, I’m not sure how brought teachers into this. Do you resent them, too?