I am one that does not want to be led to the traugh to eat. The BO’s health care is the beginning of the end of America as we know it. BO will be known as the president that moved America to socialism. What a horrible legacy to follow such a book smart young man.
John, Socialism, as defined by Webster is: “economic and political system, aiming at public or government ownership of means of production, etc.” Can you explain how Obamacare and the setting up of exchanges from which PRIVATE health insurance companies can bid for business in any way fits the definition of socialism?
Thank you Fred. It’s obvious that UW and John did not read the article. The Healthcare Exchange is a Republican idea. It also bolster’s the private insurance market and would reduce costs over time. Finally, it gives state budget a breather from the intense pressure they are facing right now. This is a wasted effort anyway. The Congress (Republicans mainly) will vote to block funding and the Senate (Democrats mostly) will go the other way. I wonder how the creation of exchanges gets “into your healthcare” or “ends America as we know it”. Of course you guys can’t give us specifics can you? Nothing but the usual hyperbolic BS. It’s not even entertaining.
Excuse me but didn’t Polsey say somehthing to the effect, when the powers that be SHOVED Ocare down our throaths, “We have to pass it so you’ll know what’s it.” or somthing on that order? And you complain about this? Specifics? We never had any specifics provided to us ether…
It is the beginning of the change. States can’t afford it even with the Fed Govt subsidies. If you have not watched or read, don’t write. It will make you look smarter.
As those of us in the business have seen numerous rate increases after the passage of this bill, how does Obamacare lower costs for the consumer? I don’t care if the exchanges are set up. Costs will continue to escalate because we cannot deny coverage for pre-existing conditions and we have to cover children to age 26. Companies react to these things by increasing rates. If we end up with single payer, the government will control our lives completely and the Death Panels will reconstitute and many will be denied care because it is not cost effective and seniors will be told they can’t have care because their useful life is over. Just go home and take a pain pill.
Agent – Maybe you can explain to me exactly what a private health insurance company brings to the table that’s worth the extra billions in overhead cost that they create? No one has ever been able to tell me why they’re needed. The gov’t runs Medicare and the VA very effectively (with much lower delivery cost) without a private health insurance company being in the middle. Please help me understand. Thanks.
Fred: I think you forgot that doctors and hospitals that still take Medicare patients overcharge privately insured patients due to the underpayments of the Medicare program. This should not be interpreted as delivering healthcare in a cost effective manner. As a veteran I’ve received medical care from a VA hospital and I will say I was satisfied with the care I received. However, the VA is a different animal than Medicare in that they have their own medical staffs and hospitals so it is not apples to apples to compare their efficiencies with private insurance companies. Private insurance companies do try to manage costs, eliminate unnecessary procedures and through independent agents, more efficiently match people to the policies that best serves their health insurance needs. These are some of what they bring to the table for, as you put it, the extra billions.
Bob: My private carrier negotiates reduced rates with some providers which greatly reduces the insurance company costs but results in an overcharge to the uninsured (for doctors and hospitals that will still take these patients) and those insured though insurance companies for which reduced rates haven’t been negotiated. “This should not be interpreted as delivering healthcare in a cost effective manner.”
Medicare also tries to manaage costs and eliminate unnecessary procedures and can be changed to become more effective at doing this. Changes in medical malpractice liability would go a long way toward making this easier to accomplish.
And I really don’t think it’s that tough to match people with policies that meet their needs. Ask what they can pay and match them to the policy they can buy.
Sorry but I’m still not seeing anything close to a payback for those extra billions.
May 4, 2011 at 3:31 pm
agent says:
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Obviously Fred, you have never run a business. The overhead you mention is their overhead, not the taxpayers overhead. The government is the most inefficient, wasteful and cost prohibitive way to do Healthcare. The whole idea of this administration is to rid themselves of the Private market which despite your statement does pay millions of claims each year. They employ around 400,000 employees and they pay taxes, unlike Jeffery Imelt at GE. I don’t think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We just need to reform the system with a better plan and return competition to the marketplace.
agent, are you suggesting that private insurance carriers don’t include the overhead costs and salaries of 400,000 employees in the cost of the policies? Or, for that matter, your commission?
I pay these costs either way, it’s just a matter of who I write the check to.
But you are correct that private carriers pay millions of claims each year. For those that can afford the cost, the system works just fine.
But for the rest, not so much. Emergency rooms don’t really do routine mammograms, pap smears, cholesteral checks,etc. The earlier something is found, the better the outcome overall. For the uninsured, those better outcomes aren’t available. Also, not such a great place for chemotherapy, radiation therapy, etc. We already have “death panels”. They look at net worth.
May 4, 2011 at 2:42 pm
D says:
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It will reduce costs over time and some states can afford it now. That much I have read, genius.
Where DO you people get your stuff cause it makes for great stand up comedy…
In that vein, please explain to me what exactly a “Death Panel” is, and what authority it would have? I’m quite sure that whatever description you give of powers and authority wouldn’t hold up to constitutional scrutiny by the US Supreme court.
The Liberal think tank believes that the country can absorb 30 million new healthcare consumers with a shrinking doctor base and do it for a lower cost without rationing care. Doctors are leaving the profession rather than taking Medicare & Medicaid patients. How is this system going to work with government bureaucrats making life and death decisions and telling doctors they can’t treat patients? You may not like the term “Death Panels”, but it will be the reality if Obamacare is fully implemented. Personally, I don’t look forward to seeing some government health clinic doctor and being told I cannot have treatment if I have a serious health issue.
So agent, as I understand your comment, your solution is to deny those potential 30 million new healthcare consumers access to the system, thus assuring your place in line and keeping your costs low. Your humanity and selflessness are truly inspirational.
As I said earlier, we already have death panels. It’s when the hospital or doctor’s office admissions person tells you to go away because you can’t pay.
The Premable to the Constitution talks about promoting the general welfare and securing blessings of liberty to all of the people of this country. How can this happen unless everyone has reasonable access to the healthcare system?
Spoken like a true believer in Progressive Socialism. No where in the Constitution does it say that the Federal Government has a duty to provide healthcare to the citizens or compel them to buy a product on pain of a fine or tax. This is a Progressive idea and they like to interpret the Constitution as a living document to interpret however they choose. Our founding fathers were very wise to set up a limited government whose main duty was to provide for the common defense and they feared the Big Government philosophy of the nanny state where entitlements would overwhelm the government like they are presently. The country already has unbearable debt with current entitlements and Obamacare will add trillions to it. Completely unsustainable and unaffordable no matter much you want the benefits. We are broke or haven’t you heard.
So being over 1 TRILLION dollars in debt isn’t broke?
I would not want to be your credit card company.
May 4, 2011 at 6:03 pm
UW says:
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No, Stephen, we’re broke. Our national debt is over 13 trillion and our GDP is around 14.7 trillion. So, Mr Keynes wanna-be, exactly how much of the Bush-era tax cuts would have to expire to pay back this debt? Really, think about it…
May 4, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Some Insurance Guy says:
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I have a few rebutals to this.
1)Why were these 30 million people uninsured in the first place? Did they wait until they were sick to get insurance? Why were they not paying into the system prior to needing health insurance? There is a reason why pre-exisiting conditions are excluded from coverage, and its not just because “insurance companies are greedy and dont want to pay out”, its because many people wouldn’t buy insurance until they have a pre-exisiting condition, and that is not economicaly fesible for an insurance company to pay out more then it takes in. Regardless of what some people say, I do not know anyone that had insurance and then was dropped as soon as they got sick.
2) Hospitals have to service someone if they are in a life threatening condition, regardless if they are able to pay.
3) What about my right to make and spend my money the way I want, instead of the government taking it by force?
My biggest issue I have with the healthcare bill is that it does nothing to address the COST of health insurance. It seems as if no one in congress that passed the bill asked themselves “Why does health insurance cost so much?”
Address the COST of insurance, then we can talk about getting everyone insured.
This bill did nothing to increase competition since companies cannot sell across state lines. It addressed nothing about Tort Reform for malpractice since the Trial Lawyers have the Democrats in their pocket. It did nothing to fix the fraud and waste in Medicare and Medicaid which is a horrible problem. Doctors, hospitals, vendors, pharma has had a gravy train for years and they don’t want their applecart upset. This is why healthcare costs can’t be brought into line.
Well stated agent. I’m not sure about the last part of your post, but I agree with the first part regarding no increase in competition and not addressing tort reform.
May 5, 2011 at 1:21 pm
Amazed says:
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Agent, there are some companies that do sell over state lines. Assurant is one of them. I used to be in health care but got when old OB shoved Ocare down our throats. Assurant is avaialbe in almost every state in the nation. So, if you move to another state, your health insurance goes with you. Unlike BC/BS, if you move out of state, you have to get BC (not called the same in another state) but under the same company.
Ocare is more Oscare then anything else.
May 6, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Consider this says:
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2 years ago, a woman is diagnosed with breast cancer. Her husband works for the state, so they have adequate insurance. Not great insurance so she had to pay a lot out of pocket for specific treatments. Fast forward to today, what if her husband beat her but she can’t leave because she has a pre-existing condition and can’t get health insurance. What if her husband got laid off, or fired? Would she become one of the 30 million? Do you think she deserves it? Do you think others may be in the same situation?
And your solution addresses the cost of health insurance…..how?
Address the cost of health insurance, and then we can talk about pre-exisiting conditions. Adding 30 million people to the health insurance pool will only increase costs for everyone, for the reason that insurance companies will have more people that have these conditions which will cause the company to cover them for a loss, so in order to cover these losses, they will have to increase the rates for everyone else, which will only make health insurance MORE pricey.
I hate the idea, but the only solution I can come up with right now is having state pool just like flood. It should not be used as a long term solution mind you, but it would be something.
In conclusion, other western countries deliver HC for 1/2 the cost with better outcomes, somehow managing, to varying degrees, to by-pass private HC markets. Bye, bye til later. :)
Fred, what an imbecilic statement to make. Tell us who these other western countries are that are delivering HC for 1/2 the cost while bypassing the private market. If you mean Great Britain, their system is so unaffordable it is bankrupting them and recently caused them to lay off 500,000 health care workers. Had the US done the reforms right instead of passing the current monstrocity, we would be seeing decreases in cost instead of upward spiraling costs.
Check the World Health Organ. rankings. Twenty some countries are ranked ahead of us. Also, check Dr. Aaron Carroll’s blogs. If you guy’s would turn off FOX you might learn something.
Great Fred! The World Health Organization is a bastion of Progressive Socialist thought under the auspices of the UN. If these countries are so great with their health care, why do their people still come to the US for treatment and surgery? Is it because their “better” system has a few shortcomings or the treatment is not available or they have to wait a year because of rationing. That happens all the time in Canada and Great Britain.
Fred. Where do you get your “facts”? I guess you don’t get out much. EVERYTHING you have said is dead wrong, ignorant and distorted. I’m so tired of listening to you poor old socialist proressives. I’m so tired of presenting real facts and statistics and trying to explain the successes of capitalism and freedom to you all! I’m to the point now that I hope you just move to those “other western countries” you love so much and add to their unsustainable social overhead.
Does anyone believe that adding another Governmental Entity to the States will not result in severe mismanagement of funds, bloated administrative salaries and layers of political pay back appointments. We do not need the government dictating our health plans or adding cost (yes they will) take a look at the schools that states currently operate.
Wisconsin is a prime example of the Teachers Unions getting generous benefits at the expense of the taxpayers. Most states have these teachers unions negotiating these sweetheart deals. The so called Exchanges are another layer of bureaucracy. We will have the Feds telling all the States how to run them in order to keep the funds coming. It is called enslavement and is furthering the aims of the Progressive Socialists who want to control all aspects of our lives.
Let’s not forget the 5 Freedoms we lose w/obamacare. 1. Freedom to choose what’s in your plan. 2.Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living or pay your real costs. 3.Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage. 4.Freedom to keep your existing plan according to the bill. 5. Freedom to choose your doctors.
Those 30 million uninsured…could it be they were uninsured because they can’t afford to pay the premium? Obamacare expects you to pay a premium or be fined or jailed. We better start building more prisons.
Those 30 million uninsured…they’re going to need doctors, nurses, lab technicians, hospital beds, pharmacists, Xrays, MRI’s, Cat scans, etc. Is Obama churning out enough trained medical personnel and equipment to handle that influx. Of course not! Net result: those medical personnel that are currently handling fewer people will have to schedule appointments much further out into the future, delaying routine services by months, if not years.
Of course, as a generous, caring nation we want to take care of our sick. The question is will we be able to? I’m old enough to have lived within our current private sector health industry and I’m quite satisfied with the services I get. I’ve been around long enough to hear doctors turn away Medicare patients because the amount they are reimbursed by our government won’t cover their costs. These are good, caring doctors, but they have bills to pay, staff to pay, etc.
Can we improve upon the current system? Sure? But a 2200 page bill that no one read and thus could not have analyzed scares the heck out of me. What I take away from that vote is…buried in all those pages is a lot of payola to lobbyists, promises to wanna be bureaucrats of cushy government jobs (paid for by us the taxpayers), and a President who wanted his legacy that he was the one that got this passed, when presidents going back 100 years couldn’t (maybe because all of those prior legislators saw the folly in letting the government run amuk in our health care).
I’m hearing an exchange of talking points above that are direct quotes churned out by the pro-Obama care lobby. Of course, it sounds wonderful and caring to say people can’t be turned away because of a pre-existing condition or to cover your child until they’re 26. Congress could have done both of these things without creating a new government bureaucracy simply by mandating it to all health care providers. There were so many more opportunities to really fix the COSTS of health care that this bill doesn’t even begin to address, like tort reform as as starter.
Let’s get our blinders off, people, and really look at what this bill will do to this country.
I like your post a lot Joan. The system that will be in place if Obamacare survives the challenges is daunting for this country. No one on the Progressive side can say that there will be enough doctors to care for the influx of all these 30 million or so. There will be severe rationing of care. The Progressives hate the term “Death Panels”, but in effect, care will be denied to seniors because their useful life is over and they are cost effective. They will be told to take a pain pill because treatment is denied. This is in effect a death sentence to many. This redistribution of wealth scheme to give another entitlement to the have nots will bring this country down. That is why it needs to be overturned.
Progressive Socialists desire to control every aspect of our lives. They could care less about the freedom’s we will lose. The whole plan is full of lies and distortions about what it will do. Remember Nancy Pelosi saying they had to pass it to see what was in it? We saw what was in it and it is the worst piece of legislation ever passed in Congress. If the plan was so good, how come 222 major companies and unions have asked for a waiver. They know how bad it is and how unaffordable it is and want no part of it.
Barrack, thanks for getting Osama, now back to business… get out of my healthcare.
I am one that does not want to be led to the traugh to eat. The BO’s health care is the beginning of the end of America as we know it. BO will be known as the president that moved America to socialism. What a horrible legacy to follow such a book smart young man.
John, Socialism, as defined by Webster is: “economic and political system, aiming at public or government ownership of means of production, etc.” Can you explain how Obamacare and the setting up of exchanges from which PRIVATE health insurance companies can bid for business in any way fits the definition of socialism?
Thank you Fred. It’s obvious that UW and John did not read the article. The Healthcare Exchange is a Republican idea. It also bolster’s the private insurance market and would reduce costs over time. Finally, it gives state budget a breather from the intense pressure they are facing right now. This is a wasted effort anyway. The Congress (Republicans mainly) will vote to block funding and the Senate (Democrats mostly) will go the other way. I wonder how the creation of exchanges gets “into your healthcare” or “ends America as we know it”. Of course you guys can’t give us specifics can you? Nothing but the usual hyperbolic BS. It’s not even entertaining.
Excuse me but didn’t Polsey say somehthing to the effect, when the powers that be SHOVED Ocare down our throaths, “We have to pass it so you’ll know what’s it.” or somthing on that order? And you complain about this? Specifics? We never had any specifics provided to us ether…
sorry for the typos, I know how damn critical some of you can be…
It is the beginning of the change. States can’t afford it even with the Fed Govt subsidies. If you have not watched or read, don’t write. It will make you look smarter.
As those of us in the business have seen numerous rate increases after the passage of this bill, how does Obamacare lower costs for the consumer? I don’t care if the exchanges are set up. Costs will continue to escalate because we cannot deny coverage for pre-existing conditions and we have to cover children to age 26. Companies react to these things by increasing rates. If we end up with single payer, the government will control our lives completely and the Death Panels will reconstitute and many will be denied care because it is not cost effective and seniors will be told they can’t have care because their useful life is over. Just go home and take a pain pill.
Agent – Maybe you can explain to me exactly what a private health insurance company brings to the table that’s worth the extra billions in overhead cost that they create? No one has ever been able to tell me why they’re needed. The gov’t runs Medicare and the VA very effectively (with much lower delivery cost) without a private health insurance company being in the middle. Please help me understand. Thanks.
Fred: I think you forgot that doctors and hospitals that still take Medicare patients overcharge privately insured patients due to the underpayments of the Medicare program. This should not be interpreted as delivering healthcare in a cost effective manner. As a veteran I’ve received medical care from a VA hospital and I will say I was satisfied with the care I received. However, the VA is a different animal than Medicare in that they have their own medical staffs and hospitals so it is not apples to apples to compare their efficiencies with private insurance companies. Private insurance companies do try to manage costs, eliminate unnecessary procedures and through independent agents, more efficiently match people to the policies that best serves their health insurance needs. These are some of what they bring to the table for, as you put it, the extra billions.
Bob: My private carrier negotiates reduced rates with some providers which greatly reduces the insurance company costs but results in an overcharge to the uninsured (for doctors and hospitals that will still take these patients) and those insured though insurance companies for which reduced rates haven’t been negotiated. “This should not be interpreted as delivering healthcare in a cost effective manner.”
Medicare also tries to manaage costs and eliminate unnecessary procedures and can be changed to become more effective at doing this. Changes in medical malpractice liability would go a long way toward making this easier to accomplish.
And I really don’t think it’s that tough to match people with policies that meet their needs. Ask what they can pay and match them to the policy they can buy.
Sorry but I’m still not seeing anything close to a payback for those extra billions.
Obviously Fred, you have never run a business. The overhead you mention is their overhead, not the taxpayers overhead. The government is the most inefficient, wasteful and cost prohibitive way to do Healthcare. The whole idea of this administration is to rid themselves of the Private market which despite your statement does pay millions of claims each year. They employ around 400,000 employees and they pay taxes, unlike Jeffery Imelt at GE. I don’t think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We just need to reform the system with a better plan and return competition to the marketplace.
agent, are you suggesting that private insurance carriers don’t include the overhead costs and salaries of 400,000 employees in the cost of the policies? Or, for that matter, your commission?
I pay these costs either way, it’s just a matter of who I write the check to.
But you are correct that private carriers pay millions of claims each year. For those that can afford the cost, the system works just fine.
But for the rest, not so much. Emergency rooms don’t really do routine mammograms, pap smears, cholesteral checks,etc. The earlier something is found, the better the outcome overall. For the uninsured, those better outcomes aren’t available. Also, not such a great place for chemotherapy, radiation therapy, etc. We already have “death panels”. They look at net worth.
It will reduce costs over time and some states can afford it now. That much I have read, genius.
Oh how I love the “Death Panels” line.
Where DO you people get your stuff cause it makes for great stand up comedy…
In that vein, please explain to me what exactly a “Death Panel” is, and what authority it would have? I’m quite sure that whatever description you give of powers and authority wouldn’t hold up to constitutional scrutiny by the US Supreme court.
The Liberal think tank believes that the country can absorb 30 million new healthcare consumers with a shrinking doctor base and do it for a lower cost without rationing care. Doctors are leaving the profession rather than taking Medicare & Medicaid patients. How is this system going to work with government bureaucrats making life and death decisions and telling doctors they can’t treat patients? You may not like the term “Death Panels”, but it will be the reality if Obamacare is fully implemented. Personally, I don’t look forward to seeing some government health clinic doctor and being told I cannot have treatment if I have a serious health issue.
So agent, as I understand your comment, your solution is to deny those potential 30 million new healthcare consumers access to the system, thus assuring your place in line and keeping your costs low. Your humanity and selflessness are truly inspirational.
As I said earlier, we already have death panels. It’s when the hospital or doctor’s office admissions person tells you to go away because you can’t pay.
The Premable to the Constitution talks about promoting the general welfare and securing blessings of liberty to all of the people of this country. How can this happen unless everyone has reasonable access to the healthcare system?
Spoken like a true believer in Progressive Socialism. No where in the Constitution does it say that the Federal Government has a duty to provide healthcare to the citizens or compel them to buy a product on pain of a fine or tax. This is a Progressive idea and they like to interpret the Constitution as a living document to interpret however they choose. Our founding fathers were very wise to set up a limited government whose main duty was to provide for the common defense and they feared the Big Government philosophy of the nanny state where entitlements would overwhelm the government like they are presently. The country already has unbearable debt with current entitlements and Obamacare will add trillions to it. Completely unsustainable and unaffordable no matter much you want the benefits. We are broke or haven’t you heard.
America is not broke. We are the richest nation on the planet. We need to enforce the corporate tax rate and let the Bush tax cuts expire.
So being over 1 TRILLION dollars in debt isn’t broke?
I would not want to be your credit card company.
No, Stephen, we’re broke. Our national debt is over 13 trillion and our GDP is around 14.7 trillion. So, Mr Keynes wanna-be, exactly how much of the Bush-era tax cuts would have to expire to pay back this debt? Really, think about it…
I have a few rebutals to this.
1)Why were these 30 million people uninsured in the first place? Did they wait until they were sick to get insurance? Why were they not paying into the system prior to needing health insurance? There is a reason why pre-exisiting conditions are excluded from coverage, and its not just because “insurance companies are greedy and dont want to pay out”, its because many people wouldn’t buy insurance until they have a pre-exisiting condition, and that is not economicaly fesible for an insurance company to pay out more then it takes in. Regardless of what some people say, I do not know anyone that had insurance and then was dropped as soon as they got sick.
2) Hospitals have to service someone if they are in a life threatening condition, regardless if they are able to pay.
3) What about my right to make and spend my money the way I want, instead of the government taking it by force?
My biggest issue I have with the healthcare bill is that it does nothing to address the COST of health insurance. It seems as if no one in congress that passed the bill asked themselves “Why does health insurance cost so much?”
Address the COST of insurance, then we can talk about getting everyone insured.
This bill did nothing to increase competition since companies cannot sell across state lines. It addressed nothing about Tort Reform for malpractice since the Trial Lawyers have the Democrats in their pocket. It did nothing to fix the fraud and waste in Medicare and Medicaid which is a horrible problem. Doctors, hospitals, vendors, pharma has had a gravy train for years and they don’t want their applecart upset. This is why healthcare costs can’t be brought into line.
Well stated agent. I’m not sure about the last part of your post, but I agree with the first part regarding no increase in competition and not addressing tort reform.
Agent, there are some companies that do sell over state lines. Assurant is one of them. I used to be in health care but got when old OB shoved Ocare down our throats. Assurant is avaialbe in almost every state in the nation. So, if you move to another state, your health insurance goes with you. Unlike BC/BS, if you move out of state, you have to get BC (not called the same in another state) but under the same company.
Ocare is more Oscare then anything else.
2 years ago, a woman is diagnosed with breast cancer. Her husband works for the state, so they have adequate insurance. Not great insurance so she had to pay a lot out of pocket for specific treatments. Fast forward to today, what if her husband beat her but she can’t leave because she has a pre-existing condition and can’t get health insurance. What if her husband got laid off, or fired? Would she become one of the 30 million? Do you think she deserves it? Do you think others may be in the same situation?
And your solution addresses the cost of health insurance…..how?
Address the cost of health insurance, and then we can talk about pre-exisiting conditions. Adding 30 million people to the health insurance pool will only increase costs for everyone, for the reason that insurance companies will have more people that have these conditions which will cause the company to cover them for a loss, so in order to cover these losses, they will have to increase the rates for everyone else, which will only make health insurance MORE pricey.
I hate the idea, but the only solution I can come up with right now is having state pool just like flood. It should not be used as a long term solution mind you, but it would be something.
In conclusion, other western countries deliver HC for 1/2 the cost with better outcomes, somehow managing, to varying degrees, to by-pass private HC markets. Bye, bye til later. :)
Fred, what an imbecilic statement to make. Tell us who these other western countries are that are delivering HC for 1/2 the cost while bypassing the private market. If you mean Great Britain, their system is so unaffordable it is bankrupting them and recently caused them to lay off 500,000 health care workers. Had the US done the reforms right instead of passing the current monstrocity, we would be seeing decreases in cost instead of upward spiraling costs.
Check the World Health Organ. rankings. Twenty some countries are ranked ahead of us. Also, check Dr. Aaron Carroll’s blogs. If you guy’s would turn off FOX you might learn something.
Great Fred! The World Health Organization is a bastion of Progressive Socialist thought under the auspices of the UN. If these countries are so great with their health care, why do their people still come to the US for treatment and surgery? Is it because their “better” system has a few shortcomings or the treatment is not available or they have to wait a year because of rationing. That happens all the time in Canada and Great Britain.
Fred. Where do you get your “facts”? I guess you don’t get out much. EVERYTHING you have said is dead wrong, ignorant and distorted. I’m so tired of listening to you poor old socialist proressives. I’m so tired of presenting real facts and statistics and trying to explain the successes of capitalism and freedom to you all! I’m to the point now that I hope you just move to those “other western countries” you love so much and add to their unsustainable social overhead.
Does anyone believe that adding another Governmental Entity to the States will not result in severe mismanagement of funds, bloated administrative salaries and layers of political pay back appointments. We do not need the government dictating our health plans or adding cost (yes they will) take a look at the schools that states currently operate.
Wisconsin is a prime example of the Teachers Unions getting generous benefits at the expense of the taxpayers. Most states have these teachers unions negotiating these sweetheart deals. The so called Exchanges are another layer of bureaucracy. We will have the Feds telling all the States how to run them in order to keep the funds coming. It is called enslavement and is furthering the aims of the Progressive Socialists who want to control all aspects of our lives.
Let’s not forget the 5 Freedoms we lose w/obamacare. 1. Freedom to choose what’s in your plan. 2.Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living or pay your real costs. 3.Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage. 4.Freedom to keep your existing plan according to the bill. 5. Freedom to choose your doctors.
Need I say more?
Those 30 million uninsured…could it be they were uninsured because they can’t afford to pay the premium? Obamacare expects you to pay a premium or be fined or jailed. We better start building more prisons.
Those 30 million uninsured…they’re going to need doctors, nurses, lab technicians, hospital beds, pharmacists, Xrays, MRI’s, Cat scans, etc. Is Obama churning out enough trained medical personnel and equipment to handle that influx. Of course not! Net result: those medical personnel that are currently handling fewer people will have to schedule appointments much further out into the future, delaying routine services by months, if not years.
Of course, as a generous, caring nation we want to take care of our sick. The question is will we be able to? I’m old enough to have lived within our current private sector health industry and I’m quite satisfied with the services I get. I’ve been around long enough to hear doctors turn away Medicare patients because the amount they are reimbursed by our government won’t cover their costs. These are good, caring doctors, but they have bills to pay, staff to pay, etc.
Can we improve upon the current system? Sure? But a 2200 page bill that no one read and thus could not have analyzed scares the heck out of me. What I take away from that vote is…buried in all those pages is a lot of payola to lobbyists, promises to wanna be bureaucrats of cushy government jobs (paid for by us the taxpayers), and a President who wanted his legacy that he was the one that got this passed, when presidents going back 100 years couldn’t (maybe because all of those prior legislators saw the folly in letting the government run amuk in our health care).
I’m hearing an exchange of talking points above that are direct quotes churned out by the pro-Obama care lobby. Of course, it sounds wonderful and caring to say people can’t be turned away because of a pre-existing condition or to cover your child until they’re 26. Congress could have done both of these things without creating a new government bureaucracy simply by mandating it to all health care providers. There were so many more opportunities to really fix the COSTS of health care that this bill doesn’t even begin to address, like tort reform as as starter.
Let’s get our blinders off, people, and really look at what this bill will do to this country.
I like your post a lot Joan. The system that will be in place if Obamacare survives the challenges is daunting for this country. No one on the Progressive side can say that there will be enough doctors to care for the influx of all these 30 million or so. There will be severe rationing of care. The Progressives hate the term “Death Panels”, but in effect, care will be denied to seniors because their useful life is over and they are cost effective. They will be told to take a pain pill because treatment is denied. This is in effect a death sentence to many. This redistribution of wealth scheme to give another entitlement to the have nots will bring this country down. That is why it needs to be overturned.
Progressive Socialists desire to control every aspect of our lives. They could care less about the freedom’s we will lose. The whole plan is full of lies and distortions about what it will do. Remember Nancy Pelosi saying they had to pass it to see what was in it? We saw what was in it and it is the worst piece of legislation ever passed in Congress. If the plan was so good, how come 222 major companies and unions have asked for a waiver. They know how bad it is and how unaffordable it is and want no part of it.