State Farm needs to start excluding certain breeds as the other companies have already been doing and maybe they wouldnt pay so many claims. Citizens excludes animal liability other companies do as well so maybe they should file the same.
Perhaps the reason that they don’t is due to the fact they may consider it a cost of doing business. If they are willing to accept all breeds of dog when writing the policy, that’s a strong selling point for someone that owns one of those breeds.
IE, German Shepards are beautiful dogs, intelligent, obedient, and easily trained. They’re also considered a “agressive” breed, and a number of carriers excluded coverage for them. Who would you go with if you owned such a dog; a company that could provide liability coverage in the unlikely event of a bite occurring? or would you write coverage with a carrier that would leave you swinging in the wind the first time a claim occurs?
If I could get a carrier to accept the so-called “agressive” breeds, I’d gladly write with them.
I should have specified that I’m in Florida and State Farm no longer writes policies here, if you dont have them already you’re out of luck. People here have almost no choice of company’s willing to offer them home insurance so we basically take what we can get and almost none cover animal liability. That being said, I’ve been an agent for 20 years and have seen my fair share dog bite claims, mostly german shepards. Cost of doing business is not worth it when you pay out $300,000 for a dog bite.
When you read the article and you’ll see that their average cost is $38k in the state of Florida, and presumably somewhere between 140-154 claims this past year (looks like they were placed between Pennsylvania and Minnesota in number of claims)
Assuming this is average, it put them at about ~$5.8M in claims costs. Presumably they’re earning more in liability coverage premiums from their existant clients then they’re paying out, or they’d not keep writing the coverage.
Insurers do not share their loss data with their own agents let alone the public. They consider everything a trade secret. If
State Farm is shelling out about $12M for their $30K average bite
in CA, while taking in how much to cover all sorts of Liability
claims on HO’s only – $175M? Dog bites may represent one of the
highest loss categories at @ 7%. If true, what does that mean?
Nothing, because it’s only a small part of the puzzle. Pets are
common. We need to cover them. Insurers need to make a profit.
Policy holders need to be much more responsible. Welcome to America – the land of irresponsibility. If I got hurt, it must be
someone else’s fault. And on the corporate size, if I can’t figure
out how to do business better, it’s got to be that crazy overly
demanding customer’s fault! This is the stuff that opportunities
and E&O lawsuits are made of.
FYI, insurance companies share loss information with not only their agents, but all of their employees. Tracking loss ratio is an important part of an agent’s job; as it can impact not only their income, but other aspects of their job as well. Agents are the frontline underwriters and it’s important that they write good business (good meaning insuring people and property that are less likely to have a loss). Yes, insurance companies do care about making a profit—all businesses do. If companies don’t make a profit they can’t stay in business. Insurance companies care about writing good business so they can keep the loss ratio lower so they can pay claims, especially in the event of a catastrophic loss where claims can easily rise into the billions of dollars.
As a final thought, reading through the comments posted on this site, maybe we all need to be a little more open minded to EVERYONE’S experiences and points of view. It’s okay for us to have our own perspectives and thoughts, but being less judgmental will benefit society as a whole.
November 9, 2011 at 5:53 pm
MrInsBrokerSF says:
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Don’t know why GS was offended or disappointed by anyone’s opinions or judgment on this subject?
We all understand business needs to make a profit to survive.
If you are in the insurance business, then you should know how much better it is than it gets public credit for, as well as all of those areas where it badly fails, and needlessly disappoints the public. I know my clients, I know my loss ratios, and I know my experience. I also know no company we’ve done business with in fifty-five years has ever provided anyone but the department of insurance any specific loss data exclusive of what I get in my agency. We’ve never been told the number of fires, thefts, or anything else, only dollar losses. Unless an insurer is very big, most reinsure for CAT losses, so the argument that paying dog bite claims would prevent them from paying a CAT loss is ridiculous. For over forty years I’ve done my best to underwrite for profit, and learned no one can predict where a loss will occur. Obviously, some characteristics are unacceptable, but leadership requires both discipline, and logic. A little creativity can go a long way. Insurance is a business based on discrimination, and contract law. Judgment is critical. Society benefit greatly when good judgment is excercised by leaders in business and in government. These days we see little to brag about in either arena. Consumers should not have to lose in order for insurers to win. Balance is needed. One poster suggested Animal Liability should be cut out as a separate line. My preference would be to see a line item breakdown of loss costs by cause. I wouldn’t be surprised if many line items would not individually be profitable,
but loss leaders are not a new concept either are they? As government continues to fail to partner with insurers to craft laws and policies that serve everyone’s needs, insurers resort to the tradition of bailing out, and communities are left to accept whatever emergency patch government creates to fill the gap. Wheather it be sink holes, hurricanes, tornados, floods, or earthquakes, challenges are serious. I hope that insuring animals for reasonable owners would be less problematic than it is at present. An the person who posted about being cancelled for the only claim in twenty years is a very sad example of what’s wrong
with corporate thinking. No underwriting, no creativity, no adjustments, no flexability, no respect, non-renewal!
June 14, 2012 at 4:56 pm
MrInsBrokerSF says:
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All of the statistics I’ve seen printed by industry trade press have suggested the average dog bite claim costs are relatively small compared to both the average cost, and the highest cost claims. Further, if all loss causes were judged as insurable
simply based on profit they generate, many other loss causes
might then be excluded. That’s neither good public policy, good
business, nor good PR. If you think that insurers are losing
money on HO Liability premiums, ask yourself why those premiums
are so low compared with property premiums?
In Ohio where they don’t write Pit Bulls, they still ranked number 3 in the nation. How do you justify breed restrictions? Frankly animal liability should be a separate line of business regardless of breed.
There are carriers who will insure animal liability when it is excluded under the homeowners policy. Even Pit Bulls. Since no companies writing in Florida will allow animal liability when you own a restricted breed you can write them a separate policy to pick up the exposure. It would be nice to have it on the home policy but that is not going to happen in Florida.
Theoretically, just about anything can be insured for a price, but practically, that’s not the average agent’s experience. We get email ads from wholesalers every day, and read numerous trade magazines, and have not yet seen any open market for a supplmental (stand alone) “Dog Liability” in California. Not saying there is no such thing – just I’ve never seen it. Why would it be kept a secret that the poster didn’t share the name? It seems far less likely that any insurer could make money if all they did was insure
Dog Liability taking all breeds. Not to minimize the danger, but to put it into perspective: we insure these things called cars, jet skis, and boats, that maim and kill people regularly, so I think we should be able to also insure people’s pets and farm animals.
I’m a MN. Am.Fam. customer for better than 20 yr. and a home owner /Ins. customer of theirs for over 15 yrs. I also was recienty in a car wreck the other driver @ 100 at fault and my wife was seriously hurt, My concern was “if the shoe was on the other foot” so I bought higher coverage for our other car and an umbrulla polcicy. 7 mos. ago my dog bit a guy with such a “vicious” attact that it caused 6 stiches and cost Am. Fam. $350 on the medical claim (victom “so” tramatized he felt it wasn’t neccary to sue for liabl.) THEY’RE CANCELLING MY HOME OWNERS !!! (oh and it was the first and only claim)
Don’t feel like your alone. My dog got into a tiff with a dog down the street. Their dog racked up $2,600 in vet fees. I got sued. I filed claim and insur.co. just paid it saying cost to much to go to court. I have been with them 30+yrs. second claim (1st. roof wind damage 2K) They are also cancelling my home owners! Been fighting them for over yr. with insur. commissioner. Hearing next week.
Why was your dog off your property? LEASH LAW. I’d of sued you too. It’s always the other persons’ fault when your pets or your kids cause trouble. If your gonna have them then take responsibility. People like you make people like us pay more for insurance. No body to blame but yourself. LESSON LEARNED !!! Should of paid it out of your own pocket, maybe it would of hurt more. Did you ever considered the injuried dog, or the family that owned it!! Good for the insurance company one less liability. I hope they win.
Even though dog training is a great tool, and there is a large segment of dog owners who think letting their dogs run off leash is no problem – my experience is that training is demanding, and I’m guilty as the next person of not putting more effort into it.
What I do to compensate is I never let our dog off leash outside
unless he’s behind our locked gate. When people see our most
incredibly beautiful boy, they’re all drawn to him. They often say does he bite? I reply – of course he does – see those teeth!
Then if they’re not too timid, I tell them to offer the back of their hand for a sniff, not fingers.
Stating the obvious may be necessary to make your point, but being mean doesn’t add to the strength of your argument. It would be great if all insurers were more responsible and proactive about
educating the public about safety issues, and what we can all do to make our communities safer for us and our pets. They don’t. Just like they will pay to fix your roof, and haul off a fallen tree from your property, but they’re too cheap and stupid to create
an incentive for homeowners to trim that same tree before it falls!
You make some pretty good points with the info. provided. First addressing you question I was outside doing yard work and the dog was with me. I honestly can’t account for every minute but she has never wondered off. The incident happened around 4:30 but the dog was in the house at 4:15 (time mix up I don’t know) There is another dog in the neighborhoom looks just like mine. If the neighbor had called me I would have gone over and resolved it by paying if we could reasonably conclude at fault. You are right in that people are responsible for their animals and kids. I just didn’t know so I turned to my insur.co to find out being the injured dogs owner didn’t want to resolve it personnaly. As it turned out They just didn’t want to fool with it paid it and cancelled my insur. Think I should have shelled out 2,600 bucks on the possibility…..and yes I know I should have been paying more attention to the where a bouts of the dog. LESSON LEARNED.
What happened?
I know some insurers won’t count a storm claim against you, because it’s a risk beyond your control. The dog fight is generally a controlable thing. Still the court system shouldn’t be so expensive that it intimidates people or insurers into paying off simply because it’s cheaper to cave in than to make your case.
Also, you’ll note that no insurer I’m aware of every publishes a
list or explanation of their rules that would tell a policyholder
what things would A) cause your premium to increase, or B) cause them to cancel your Homeowners policy. With such an important product, why isn’t’ anyone including the so called consumer advocates focusing any light on that subject?
MrinsBrokerSF…The 2ed paragraph is right on the mark. My policy is 57pages long and the word “dog” appears no ware. They have general language that says you will “reduce risk” file a claim and you are told dump the dog after they pay the claim. I said no because I wanted them to represent me because of the fact I didn’t know, crist if I knew I would have paid it myself. They didn’t care all they knew it was cheaper to pay than go to court. So they paid the claim, cancelled me and I get a rap sheet showing a dog bite which results in me running around for insurance. I went to Insur. Commission bitching about not being told the raminfication of filing a claim. Comm. said to bad the policy had a reduce risk clause. Then I bitched about Insur. not investigating incident and just paying claim for bottom line reasons. Problem is policy says they have the option to settle claim without your concent.
As to your question “What happened?” Waiting for Comm. ruling. I’am just I little guy trying to keep his 12yr. old dog, they are a multi billion dollar company. What do you think? I’am screwed.
Depending on what state you live in, you may or may not have options. Some insurer may offer to insure you with a policy that excluded pet liability. You might be able to accept that. Dumping you pet is generally not an acceptable option, I’d rather sell my house.
When you shop for new policies, the insurers will normally only be
able to see or track claims in a 3-5 year time window, but if you
like their quote, and apply to purchase a new policy, you can expect the application to ask if you own any pets, and if they have ANY bite history. They’re essentially giving you dog a life
sentence whether it’s earned or not.
You said you weren’t even convinced that your dog was the one who
bit the other dog. Unfortunately, without being able to prove that
at the time, it seems like you got tagged as it. Whichever dog it
was, will be more likely to do it again under the right conditions.
Too bad I don’t have the magic wand to solve this mess. Personally, I think that other than those people who are really
irresponsible and criminal, the rest of us shouldn’t have to face
the problem you have. All I can offer you is a cyber hug, and best
wishes. The insurance industry is great, but it’s far from perfect.
June 16, 2012 at 6:28 am
Hank says:
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Early in this incident I sent them a waiver of libility but they said no. I understand you can’t waive a tort before it happens but I thought I would give it a shot so I’am ok with them saying no. My only two options are put the dog down or pay another insur. co double because of this claim. If I put her down I’m no better than my insurance co. because just like them it’s for economic reasons. I know insurance companies have a obligation to all their policy holders to reduce risk. If my dog was a biter I would be the first to get rid of her. I don’t want someone getting hurt. At 12yrs. she is near the end anyway so maybe nature will resolve this before I have to. As far as my 39yr relationship with my insurance co. we are done. I will take my insurance someware else. I hope they enjoyed the 75K I’ve given them over the years because they will not see another dime from me. I’m sure they could care less. Thank you for your posts. By your post name and knowledge of the industry you must be a broker. This has been quite a learning experience for me. I plan on going to the State committe on insurance and try to get some of these problems resolved through inacting some legislation. It’s the least I can do to maybe save someone else for going through this. Thanks.
May 13, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Steve Jensen says:
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I would be even more interested to know what type of Dogs are the most frequent bite offenders. Since most breeds are discriminated against at the inception of a new Homeowner’s policy, I suspect these dog bites are coming from common breed like a Lab, Poodle, etc.
I’m no expert on these stats, but my experience and guess is that small dogs probably make up most of the bites, but do a lot less damage per bite than the larger more powerful dogs. Excellent training tapes and live trainers are available, but most people fail to take advantage of them.
Dog bites can be serious, but I think after reading this it might be something the companies should have a separate endorsement for or maybe put a Deductible in for owners who do not disclose they have a dog and it bites someone. I’m not sure if breeds should be excluded, but I also don’t think the wording in NY actually does that on the policy or if it is just to decline a risk initially. What about the people who buy a Pit Bull or German Shepard 2 years after the policy is written? Most insured’s do not call us when they buy a new dog.
I do alot of home inspections/appraisals for numerous insurance companies in my region. I have been bitten by dogs a total of 7 times in 8 years. The dogs that appear to be the most likely to bite are the cattle dogs. I have been bitten by McNabbs, Queenslands & Border Collies and thats it. Never been bitten by a “vicious” dog such as Pit Bull, Doberman, Rottwieler or Chow. Every time an insureds dogs had bitten me I had to file a report with the insured’s agent and I can tell you they never took the claim serious. They either made a joke of it or just took the information and never bothered to do anything about it. The insureds didn’t even have their policies cancelled. So why do they make a big deal about dog bites if they are not going to do anything about it. I have even been back to the same homes and they still have the same insurance carrier and the same dog. All the dogs bites did break the skin but thankfully no stitches were needed. So if you ask me the insurance companies don’t do anything when the dog has shown aggressive behavior then they get what deserve. I wonder why I never got any money from being bitten by a dog when the insurance companies are crying about paying out on dog bite claims. Do something with the information you have on dogs and quit crying about paying claims. If you do your job right your job will be done right. If you bury your head in the sand get ready to open your check books. I have no sympathy for you.
One person’s experience being bitten is not statistically a good predictor for extrapolation to the larger world of a city, county, state or country. What’s unfortunate is that local government doesn’t keep these stats, the local SPCA may not, and insurers do not provide an open data base where the public can a list of bites
by breed, by frequency, and severity, and also by circumstances.
In CA we see a growing trend of police shooting people’s dogs that
are enclosed in the resident’s back yard. The police want access,
the dog does it’s job of defending it’s territory, and rather than
backing off, they shoot the dog. No criminal offense for the police killing an innocent pet.
It’s cecome too common for people and corporations to take the easy
way in dealing with their problems. No innovation, no creativity, often no compassion.
I’ve been doing insurance appraisals/inspections for the past 7 years and I have been bitten 7 times by McNabbs, Queenslands and Border Collies. Each time I had to file a report to the insurance agent and carrier. Everytime it was either made into a joke or just shrugged off as a one time occurance. They never offered me any money or even asked if I needed to see a doctor. So why cry about paying out millions in dog bite claims when there is prior evidence that a dog has bitten someone or that they might bite someone in the future. If most companies would do something about aggressive dogs when a problem is brought to their attention then they could save alot of money. But if you want to bury your heads in the sand then get ready to open up your check books. I’m tired of insurance companies crying about paying out millions of dollars in claims. They have information that they choose to ignore and only deal with when a claim occurs. Do you job right and you wont have to worry about what happens in the future. I’m wondering where is my money for all the dog bites as I have not recieved a penny from you guys. I’m just thankfull that even though all bites broke the skin and drew blood that I did not need any stitches. So I say quit crying and do your job right.
I also used to do inspections, and the most persisent issues I had with dogs are the chihuahua ankle-biters. Dogs in my experience telegraph their intentions pretty well, so unless you surprise them it surprises ME that you’ve been bitten so many times.
You ever talk with a U.S.Postal Service letter carrier?
Power company meter reader?
Anyone else doing deliveries?
People covered by Workers’ Comp. are covered when injured by a dog on the job. The appraiser bitten 7X may be self employed? He could’ve sued each time, but then he’d likely not get any new appraisal jobs. Maybe he didn’t bring the right kind of doggie treats, or pepper spray?
This works out to an average $30,623.31 paid out per claim, which says something about the problem of dogs not kept under control by their owners.
If you love dogs, which I do (three Labs at home plus cats, etc.) then you know that there are pet owners who refuse to keep their dogs properly fenced on their property, or keep overly aggressive animals (in Los Angeles, pit bulls are a big problem) or just don’t understand that pet ownership is a responsibility as well as a privilege.
In California, dangerous animals give rise to owner liability under Civil Code section 3342, better known as the “Dog Bite Statute.”
And, by the way, in California, there is no “every dog gets one free bite” standard when it comes to injury claims.
The standard jury instruction (CACI 463) says that there is liability when an injured plaintiff proves:
1.That the defendant owned the dog;
2.That the dog bit the plaintiff while he/she was in a public place or lawfully on private property;
3. That the plaintiff was injured;
4. That the defendant’s dog was a substantial factor causing plaintiff’s harm.
Irresponsible owners should be held liable for the injuries their animals cause. Of course, it’s always better to head off the harm in the first place.
State Farm needs to start excluding certain breeds as the other companies have already been doing and maybe they wouldnt pay so many claims. Citizens excludes animal liability other companies do as well so maybe they should file the same.
Perhaps the reason that they don’t is due to the fact they may consider it a cost of doing business. If they are willing to accept all breeds of dog when writing the policy, that’s a strong selling point for someone that owns one of those breeds.
IE, German Shepards are beautiful dogs, intelligent, obedient, and easily trained. They’re also considered a “agressive” breed, and a number of carriers excluded coverage for them. Who would you go with if you owned such a dog; a company that could provide liability coverage in the unlikely event of a bite occurring? or would you write coverage with a carrier that would leave you swinging in the wind the first time a claim occurs?
If I could get a carrier to accept the so-called “agressive” breeds, I’d gladly write with them.
I should have specified that I’m in Florida and State Farm no longer writes policies here, if you dont have them already you’re out of luck. People here have almost no choice of company’s willing to offer them home insurance so we basically take what we can get and almost none cover animal liability. That being said, I’ve been an agent for 20 years and have seen my fair share dog bite claims, mostly german shepards. Cost of doing business is not worth it when you pay out $300,000 for a dog bite.
Your name already gave away your location.
When you read the article and you’ll see that their average cost is $38k in the state of Florida, and presumably somewhere between 140-154 claims this past year (looks like they were placed between Pennsylvania and Minnesota in number of claims)
Assuming this is average, it put them at about ~$5.8M in claims costs. Presumably they’re earning more in liability coverage premiums from their existant clients then they’re paying out, or they’d not keep writing the coverage.
Insurers do not share their loss data with their own agents let alone the public. They consider everything a trade secret. If
State Farm is shelling out about $12M for their $30K average bite
in CA, while taking in how much to cover all sorts of Liability
claims on HO’s only – $175M? Dog bites may represent one of the
highest loss categories at @ 7%. If true, what does that mean?
Nothing, because it’s only a small part of the puzzle. Pets are
common. We need to cover them. Insurers need to make a profit.
Policy holders need to be much more responsible. Welcome to America – the land of irresponsibility. If I got hurt, it must be
someone else’s fault. And on the corporate size, if I can’t figure
out how to do business better, it’s got to be that crazy overly
demanding customer’s fault! This is the stuff that opportunities
and E&O lawsuits are made of.
FYI, insurance companies share loss information with not only their agents, but all of their employees. Tracking loss ratio is an important part of an agent’s job; as it can impact not only their income, but other aspects of their job as well. Agents are the frontline underwriters and it’s important that they write good business (good meaning insuring people and property that are less likely to have a loss). Yes, insurance companies do care about making a profit—all businesses do. If companies don’t make a profit they can’t stay in business. Insurance companies care about writing good business so they can keep the loss ratio lower so they can pay claims, especially in the event of a catastrophic loss where claims can easily rise into the billions of dollars.
As a final thought, reading through the comments posted on this site, maybe we all need to be a little more open minded to EVERYONE’S experiences and points of view. It’s okay for us to have our own perspectives and thoughts, but being less judgmental will benefit society as a whole.
Don’t know why GS was offended or disappointed by anyone’s opinions or judgment on this subject?
We all understand business needs to make a profit to survive.
If you are in the insurance business, then you should know how much better it is than it gets public credit for, as well as all of those areas where it badly fails, and needlessly disappoints the public. I know my clients, I know my loss ratios, and I know my experience. I also know no company we’ve done business with in fifty-five years has ever provided anyone but the department of insurance any specific loss data exclusive of what I get in my agency. We’ve never been told the number of fires, thefts, or anything else, only dollar losses. Unless an insurer is very big, most reinsure for CAT losses, so the argument that paying dog bite claims would prevent them from paying a CAT loss is ridiculous. For over forty years I’ve done my best to underwrite for profit, and learned no one can predict where a loss will occur. Obviously, some characteristics are unacceptable, but leadership requires both discipline, and logic. A little creativity can go a long way. Insurance is a business based on discrimination, and contract law. Judgment is critical. Society benefit greatly when good judgment is excercised by leaders in business and in government. These days we see little to brag about in either arena. Consumers should not have to lose in order for insurers to win. Balance is needed. One poster suggested Animal Liability should be cut out as a separate line. My preference would be to see a line item breakdown of loss costs by cause. I wouldn’t be surprised if many line items would not individually be profitable,
but loss leaders are not a new concept either are they? As government continues to fail to partner with insurers to craft laws and policies that serve everyone’s needs, insurers resort to the tradition of bailing out, and communities are left to accept whatever emergency patch government creates to fill the gap. Wheather it be sink holes, hurricanes, tornados, floods, or earthquakes, challenges are serious. I hope that insuring animals for reasonable owners would be less problematic than it is at present. An the person who posted about being cancelled for the only claim in twenty years is a very sad example of what’s wrong
with corporate thinking. No underwriting, no creativity, no adjustments, no flexability, no respect, non-renewal!
All of the statistics I’ve seen printed by industry trade press have suggested the average dog bite claim costs are relatively small compared to both the average cost, and the highest cost claims. Further, if all loss causes were judged as insurable
simply based on profit they generate, many other loss causes
might then be excluded. That’s neither good public policy, good
business, nor good PR. If you think that insurers are losing
money on HO Liability premiums, ask yourself why those premiums
are so low compared with property premiums?
In Ohio where they don’t write Pit Bulls, they still ranked number 3 in the nation. How do you justify breed restrictions? Frankly animal liability should be a separate line of business regardless of breed.
There are carriers who will insure animal liability when it is excluded under the homeowners policy. Even Pit Bulls. Since no companies writing in Florida will allow animal liability when you own a restricted breed you can write them a separate policy to pick up the exposure. It would be nice to have it on the home policy but that is not going to happen in Florida.
Theoretically, just about anything can be insured for a price, but practically, that’s not the average agent’s experience. We get email ads from wholesalers every day, and read numerous trade magazines, and have not yet seen any open market for a supplmental (stand alone) “Dog Liability” in California. Not saying there is no such thing – just I’ve never seen it. Why would it be kept a secret that the poster didn’t share the name? It seems far less likely that any insurer could make money if all they did was insure
Dog Liability taking all breeds. Not to minimize the danger, but to put it into perspective: we insure these things called cars, jet skis, and boats, that maim and kill people regularly, so I think we should be able to also insure people’s pets and farm animals.
Raider fans like pit bulls, mystery solved!
LOL
I’m a MN. Am.Fam. customer for better than 20 yr. and a home owner /Ins. customer of theirs for over 15 yrs. I also was recienty in a car wreck the other driver @ 100 at fault and my wife was seriously hurt, My concern was “if the shoe was on the other foot” so I bought higher coverage for our other car and an umbrulla polcicy. 7 mos. ago my dog bit a guy with such a “vicious” attact that it caused 6 stiches and cost Am. Fam. $350 on the medical claim (victom “so” tramatized he felt it wasn’t neccary to sue for liabl.) THEY’RE CANCELLING MY HOME OWNERS !!! (oh and it was the first and only claim)
Don’t feel like your alone. My dog got into a tiff with a dog down the street. Their dog racked up $2,600 in vet fees. I got sued. I filed claim and insur.co. just paid it saying cost to much to go to court. I have been with them 30+yrs. second claim (1st. roof wind damage 2K) They are also cancelling my home owners! Been fighting them for over yr. with insur. commissioner. Hearing next week.
Why was your dog off your property? LEASH LAW. I’d of sued you too. It’s always the other persons’ fault when your pets or your kids cause trouble. If your gonna have them then take responsibility. People like you make people like us pay more for insurance. No body to blame but yourself. LESSON LEARNED !!! Should of paid it out of your own pocket, maybe it would of hurt more. Did you ever considered the injuried dog, or the family that owned it!! Good for the insurance company one less liability. I hope they win.
Even though dog training is a great tool, and there is a large segment of dog owners who think letting their dogs run off leash is no problem – my experience is that training is demanding, and I’m guilty as the next person of not putting more effort into it.
What I do to compensate is I never let our dog off leash outside
unless he’s behind our locked gate. When people see our most
incredibly beautiful boy, they’re all drawn to him. They often say does he bite? I reply – of course he does – see those teeth!
Then if they’re not too timid, I tell them to offer the back of their hand for a sniff, not fingers.
Stating the obvious may be necessary to make your point, but being mean doesn’t add to the strength of your argument. It would be great if all insurers were more responsible and proactive about
educating the public about safety issues, and what we can all do to make our communities safer for us and our pets. They don’t. Just like they will pay to fix your roof, and haul off a fallen tree from your property, but they’re too cheap and stupid to create
an incentive for homeowners to trim that same tree before it falls!
You make some pretty good points with the info. provided. First addressing you question I was outside doing yard work and the dog was with me. I honestly can’t account for every minute but she has never wondered off. The incident happened around 4:30 but the dog was in the house at 4:15 (time mix up I don’t know) There is another dog in the neighborhoom looks just like mine. If the neighbor had called me I would have gone over and resolved it by paying if we could reasonably conclude at fault. You are right in that people are responsible for their animals and kids. I just didn’t know so I turned to my insur.co to find out being the injured dogs owner didn’t want to resolve it personnaly. As it turned out They just didn’t want to fool with it paid it and cancelled my insur. Think I should have shelled out 2,600 bucks on the possibility…..and yes I know I should have been paying more attention to the where a bouts of the dog. LESSON LEARNED.
What happened?
I know some insurers won’t count a storm claim against you, because it’s a risk beyond your control. The dog fight is generally a controlable thing. Still the court system shouldn’t be so expensive that it intimidates people or insurers into paying off simply because it’s cheaper to cave in than to make your case.
Also, you’ll note that no insurer I’m aware of every publishes a
list or explanation of their rules that would tell a policyholder
what things would A) cause your premium to increase, or B) cause them to cancel your Homeowners policy. With such an important product, why isn’t’ anyone including the so called consumer advocates focusing any light on that subject?
MrinsBrokerSF…The 2ed paragraph is right on the mark. My policy is 57pages long and the word “dog” appears no ware. They have general language that says you will “reduce risk” file a claim and you are told dump the dog after they pay the claim. I said no because I wanted them to represent me because of the fact I didn’t know, crist if I knew I would have paid it myself. They didn’t care all they knew it was cheaper to pay than go to court. So they paid the claim, cancelled me and I get a rap sheet showing a dog bite which results in me running around for insurance. I went to Insur. Commission bitching about not being told the raminfication of filing a claim. Comm. said to bad the policy had a reduce risk clause. Then I bitched about Insur. not investigating incident and just paying claim for bottom line reasons. Problem is policy says they have the option to settle claim without your concent.
As to your question “What happened?” Waiting for Comm. ruling. I’am just I little guy trying to keep his 12yr. old dog, they are a multi billion dollar company. What do you think? I’am screwed.
Depending on what state you live in, you may or may not have options. Some insurer may offer to insure you with a policy that excluded pet liability. You might be able to accept that. Dumping you pet is generally not an acceptable option, I’d rather sell my house.
When you shop for new policies, the insurers will normally only be
able to see or track claims in a 3-5 year time window, but if you
like their quote, and apply to purchase a new policy, you can expect the application to ask if you own any pets, and if they have ANY bite history. They’re essentially giving you dog a life
sentence whether it’s earned or not.
You said you weren’t even convinced that your dog was the one who
bit the other dog. Unfortunately, without being able to prove that
at the time, it seems like you got tagged as it. Whichever dog it
was, will be more likely to do it again under the right conditions.
Too bad I don’t have the magic wand to solve this mess. Personally, I think that other than those people who are really
irresponsible and criminal, the rest of us shouldn’t have to face
the problem you have. All I can offer you is a cyber hug, and best
wishes. The insurance industry is great, but it’s far from perfect.
Early in this incident I sent them a waiver of libility but they said no. I understand you can’t waive a tort before it happens but I thought I would give it a shot so I’am ok with them saying no. My only two options are put the dog down or pay another insur. co double because of this claim. If I put her down I’m no better than my insurance co. because just like them it’s for economic reasons. I know insurance companies have a obligation to all their policy holders to reduce risk. If my dog was a biter I would be the first to get rid of her. I don’t want someone getting hurt. At 12yrs. she is near the end anyway so maybe nature will resolve this before I have to. As far as my 39yr relationship with my insurance co. we are done. I will take my insurance someware else. I hope they enjoyed the 75K I’ve given them over the years because they will not see another dime from me. I’m sure they could care less. Thank you for your posts. By your post name and knowledge of the industry you must be a broker. This has been quite a learning experience for me. I plan on going to the State committe on insurance and try to get some of these problems resolved through inacting some legislation. It’s the least I can do to maybe save someone else for going through this. Thanks.
I would be even more interested to know what type of Dogs are the most frequent bite offenders. Since most breeds are discriminated against at the inception of a new Homeowner’s policy, I suspect these dog bites are coming from common breed like a Lab, Poodle, etc.
I’m no expert on these stats, but my experience and guess is that small dogs probably make up most of the bites, but do a lot less damage per bite than the larger more powerful dogs. Excellent training tapes and live trainers are available, but most people fail to take advantage of them.
Dog bites can be serious, but I think after reading this it might be something the companies should have a separate endorsement for or maybe put a Deductible in for owners who do not disclose they have a dog and it bites someone. I’m not sure if breeds should be excluded, but I also don’t think the wording in NY actually does that on the policy or if it is just to decline a risk initially. What about the people who buy a Pit Bull or German Shepard 2 years after the policy is written? Most insured’s do not call us when they buy a new dog.
I do alot of home inspections/appraisals for numerous insurance companies in my region. I have been bitten by dogs a total of 7 times in 8 years. The dogs that appear to be the most likely to bite are the cattle dogs. I have been bitten by McNabbs, Queenslands & Border Collies and thats it. Never been bitten by a “vicious” dog such as Pit Bull, Doberman, Rottwieler or Chow. Every time an insureds dogs had bitten me I had to file a report with the insured’s agent and I can tell you they never took the claim serious. They either made a joke of it or just took the information and never bothered to do anything about it. The insureds didn’t even have their policies cancelled. So why do they make a big deal about dog bites if they are not going to do anything about it. I have even been back to the same homes and they still have the same insurance carrier and the same dog. All the dogs bites did break the skin but thankfully no stitches were needed. So if you ask me the insurance companies don’t do anything when the dog has shown aggressive behavior then they get what deserve. I wonder why I never got any money from being bitten by a dog when the insurance companies are crying about paying out on dog bite claims. Do something with the information you have on dogs and quit crying about paying claims. If you do your job right your job will be done right. If you bury your head in the sand get ready to open your check books. I have no sympathy for you.
One person’s experience being bitten is not statistically a good predictor for extrapolation to the larger world of a city, county, state or country. What’s unfortunate is that local government doesn’t keep these stats, the local SPCA may not, and insurers do not provide an open data base where the public can a list of bites
by breed, by frequency, and severity, and also by circumstances.
In CA we see a growing trend of police shooting people’s dogs that
are enclosed in the resident’s back yard. The police want access,
the dog does it’s job of defending it’s territory, and rather than
backing off, they shoot the dog. No criminal offense for the police killing an innocent pet.
It’s cecome too common for people and corporations to take the easy
way in dealing with their problems. No innovation, no creativity, often no compassion.
I’ve been doing insurance appraisals/inspections for the past 7 years and I have been bitten 7 times by McNabbs, Queenslands and Border Collies. Each time I had to file a report to the insurance agent and carrier. Everytime it was either made into a joke or just shrugged off as a one time occurance. They never offered me any money or even asked if I needed to see a doctor. So why cry about paying out millions in dog bite claims when there is prior evidence that a dog has bitten someone or that they might bite someone in the future. If most companies would do something about aggressive dogs when a problem is brought to their attention then they could save alot of money. But if you want to bury your heads in the sand then get ready to open up your check books. I’m tired of insurance companies crying about paying out millions of dollars in claims. They have information that they choose to ignore and only deal with when a claim occurs. Do you job right and you wont have to worry about what happens in the future. I’m wondering where is my money for all the dog bites as I have not recieved a penny from you guys. I’m just thankfull that even though all bites broke the skin and drew blood that I did not need any stitches. So I say quit crying and do your job right.
I also used to do inspections, and the most persisent issues I had with dogs are the chihuahua ankle-biters. Dogs in my experience telegraph their intentions pretty well, so unless you surprise them it surprises ME that you’ve been bitten so many times.
You ever talk with a U.S.Postal Service letter carrier?
Power company meter reader?
Anyone else doing deliveries?
People covered by Workers’ Comp. are covered when injured by a dog on the job. The appraiser bitten 7X may be self employed? He could’ve sued each time, but then he’d likely not get any new appraisal jobs. Maybe he didn’t bring the right kind of doggie treats, or pepper spray?
This works out to an average $30,623.31 paid out per claim, which says something about the problem of dogs not kept under control by their owners.
If you love dogs, which I do (three Labs at home plus cats, etc.) then you know that there are pet owners who refuse to keep their dogs properly fenced on their property, or keep overly aggressive animals (in Los Angeles, pit bulls are a big problem) or just don’t understand that pet ownership is a responsibility as well as a privilege.
In California, dangerous animals give rise to owner liability under Civil Code section 3342, better known as the “Dog Bite Statute.”
And, by the way, in California, there is no “every dog gets one free bite” standard when it comes to injury claims.
The standard jury instruction (CACI 463) says that there is liability when an injured plaintiff proves:
1.That the defendant owned the dog;
2.That the dog bit the plaintiff while he/she was in a public place or lawfully on private property;
3. That the plaintiff was injured;
4. That the defendant’s dog was a substantial factor causing plaintiff’s harm.
Irresponsible owners should be held liable for the injuries their animals cause. Of course, it’s always better to head off the harm in the first place.