What part of corruption and fraud do we not understand? Both of these markets were rotten to the core. Because of their shady transactions, bid rigging, manipulation, the taxpayers had to bail them out to the tune of $182 Billion. These guys should be where Bernie Madoff is currently instead of getting a new trial.
Youngin, the culture of corruption has been going on for years with these markets doing illegal things. Perhaps you don’t remember the bid rigging with Marsh. They also were manipulating reserves on WC to make themselves look better than they were. Liberty Mutual sued them on that and won a settlement. Of course, the major damage were the sub prime mortgage mess that set off the failure of the company and was the last straw that led to the big bailout. If you have a major market doing all these things and getting sued right and left, someone was instigating this at the company level and then they were paying themselves huge bonuses at the same time. AIG is a shell of its former self and the taxpayers will never see the whole return no matter how many assets they sell.
BOTH of these markets were “rotten to the core,” and “culture of corruption?” Gen Re? What planet are you from? They are all Boy Scouts who self-reported this transaction to the DOJ.
August 2, 2011 at 3:01 pm
anti agent says:
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culture of corruption at Gen Re? What planet are you from? They are Boy Scouts and they are taking the fall for the Evil Empire’s malfeasance.
Finally, sanity has prevailed. This whole case has been a poster-child for witchhunt. Why were these fine people (e.g., ever heard of the Bornheutter-Ferguson loss development method?) the targets for runaway prosecutorial zeal while the instigators of the finite-re transaction – Greenberg and Buffett – were conspicuously unbothered? Compare all this to the global collapse of mortgage securitization has come and stayed without a single prosecution for the associated bona-fide crimes.
Ah yes, the old BF method, or as I like the call it, the “start with the number you think it should be and credibility-weight it with reality”, method.
Hi all I am just a regular person with no banking or insurance experience, but I am a business person and have been working for 30 years and I can state, without reservation, that the culture of a company — good, bad or whatever it is — comes from the top down. So to William’s point, Greenberg and Buffett benefitted financially from these transactions and should have been held accountable ALONG with the rest of them. And, while I am at it– let’s thank our friends in the Bush administration for opening the floodgates, removing control and oversight and making all this possible ;) for the privileged few who became mega wealthy at the expense of all us poor middle class working folk.
I agree with much of what you say, but you didn’t go back quite far enough. It was under the Clinton Administration when the sub prime mortgage mess started and people were given mortgages who had no hope of paying for them. Fannie & Freddie were allowed to run wild which eventually led to the meltdown. Bush did warn Congress 17 times to reign in Fannie & Freddie and Barney & Chris disregarded the warnings. However, Bush did not have the spine to go to the American people to demand change and his SEC guy was asleep at the switch and was complicit in what happened later. Everything else that happened with Goldman, JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers, AIG and a whole host of companies was greed selling all these mortgage backed securities as solid investments. All those guys should be in cells next to Bernie Madoff for their roles and somehow they are still around.
New Trial!
This time do it right and get ALL of the Greenburgs
What part of corruption and fraud do we not understand? Both of these markets were rotten to the core. Because of their shady transactions, bid rigging, manipulation, the taxpayers had to bail them out to the tune of $182 Billion. These guys should be where Bernie Madoff is currently instead of getting a new trial.
Are you saying taxpayers had to bail out AIG because of shoddy insurance transactions?
Youngin, the culture of corruption has been going on for years with these markets doing illegal things. Perhaps you don’t remember the bid rigging with Marsh. They also were manipulating reserves on WC to make themselves look better than they were. Liberty Mutual sued them on that and won a settlement. Of course, the major damage were the sub prime mortgage mess that set off the failure of the company and was the last straw that led to the big bailout. If you have a major market doing all these things and getting sued right and left, someone was instigating this at the company level and then they were paying themselves huge bonuses at the same time. AIG is a shell of its former self and the taxpayers will never see the whole return no matter how many assets they sell.
Wow, your response was unexpectedly informed, articulate, and well-reasoned. I’ll stand down now.
BOTH of these markets were “rotten to the core,” and “culture of corruption?” Gen Re? What planet are you from? They are all Boy Scouts who self-reported this transaction to the DOJ.
culture of corruption at Gen Re? What planet are you from? They are Boy Scouts and they are taking the fall for the Evil Empire’s malfeasance.
Would those without means or money receive similar justice?
The lawyers just love it. They will get paid, probably with taxpayer dollars to get these crooks off.
Finally, sanity has prevailed. This whole case has been a poster-child for witchhunt. Why were these fine people (e.g., ever heard of the Bornheutter-Ferguson loss development method?) the targets for runaway prosecutorial zeal while the instigators of the finite-re transaction – Greenberg and Buffett – were conspicuously unbothered? Compare all this to the global collapse of mortgage securitization has come and stayed without a single prosecution for the associated bona-fide crimes.
Ah yes, the old BF method, or as I like the call it, the “start with the number you think it should be and credibility-weight it with reality”, method.
Agent, you have no idea what you are talking about, but it is entertaining to read.
Hi all I am just a regular person with no banking or insurance experience, but I am a business person and have been working for 30 years and I can state, without reservation, that the culture of a company — good, bad or whatever it is — comes from the top down. So to William’s point, Greenberg and Buffett benefitted financially from these transactions and should have been held accountable ALONG with the rest of them. And, while I am at it– let’s thank our friends in the Bush administration for opening the floodgates, removing control and oversight and making all this possible ;) for the privileged few who became mega wealthy at the expense of all us poor middle class working folk.
I agree with much of what you say, but you didn’t go back quite far enough. It was under the Clinton Administration when the sub prime mortgage mess started and people were given mortgages who had no hope of paying for them. Fannie & Freddie were allowed to run wild which eventually led to the meltdown. Bush did warn Congress 17 times to reign in Fannie & Freddie and Barney & Chris disregarded the warnings. However, Bush did not have the spine to go to the American people to demand change and his SEC guy was asleep at the switch and was complicit in what happened later. Everything else that happened with Goldman, JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers, AIG and a whole host of companies was greed selling all these mortgage backed securities as solid investments. All those guys should be in cells next to Bernie Madoff for their roles and somehow they are still around.