How about not rolling it out? How about defunding it and repealing it and starting over with private market solutions and no government interference? Small business does not want this and will only get waivers from it or stop providing the benefit altogether.
If you remember, the reason we don’t leave this to “private market solutions” is that “private market solutions” haven’t worked, have led to hyper-inflated health care costs, soaring insurance premiums, and millions of uninsured.
Businesses, especially insurance companies, have only one incentive: make as much money as possible. I’m not suggesting that businesses should have any other goal. That’s what businesses do. But don’t expect business to solve our problems. They have no interest in solving problems.
Whether you like it or not, a government solution is the only way. Maybe you don’t like this particular government solution. But don’t for a minute think that that the private market is going to help.
I’m going to have to lean a little on the other point of view’s point of view. When you’re paying $12k plus for health insurance through an HMO, not to mention copays and deductibles for each family member, any relief is welcome and the private market doesn’t seem to be interested in anything put raising the cost to keep coverage every year.
The private market solutions you speak of failed for a few reasons.
1. Government putting restrictions on them (such as not being able to sell across state lines)
2. Baseless lawsuits
3. People and the lawyers that back them, trying to ‘get rich quick’ from the system
As I have stated before, the issue I have with Obamacare is that it does not address the COST of health care. Lower the cost of health care, and the private market will do well with it.
I am so glad our leaders thought this through carefully and accounted for all contingencies. It would be terrible if there was some appointed person who made uninformed decisions on the fly without proper knowledge on the industry. A arbitrary decision by a political operative could be disastrous to an entire industry, actually two, so we are all fortunate our leadership has contemplated that in the extensive legislation.
I totally agree! I mean, how bad would it be if one of the elected offcials that backed this bill said something like, oh maybe something like that “we need to pass this bill so we can see what is in it”. How horrifying would that be?
Absolutely right. Here’s something from the HHS website:
From 1999 to 2009, health insurance premiums skyrocketed while Americans’ wages and cost of living grew at a much slower rate. Premiums more than doubled, rising by over $7,500 for the average family with employer-sponsored insurance. The cost of an employer-based family coverage plan rose from 12 to 22 percent of family income over the decade. Health insurance costs jumped as a percentage of private sector compensation from 5.4 to 7.3 percent from 1999 to 2009, eroding workers’ wages. Small businesses were particularly hard hit. The proportion of small employers offering health insurance dropped from 65 to 59 percent between 1999 and 2009. Part of the reason for rising costs has been reduced competition: these increases occurred at a time of tremendous consolidation in the insurance markets, both national and local.
********
So next time someone says “leave it to the private market,” remind them that the private market is the problem, not the solution.
I notice you are all talking about health “insurance” when you say the private market is the “problem.” What about healthcare costs? Are those not going up? If healthcare costs are going up, are health insurance companies causing that? What about other types of insurance that pay for healthcare costs under certain circumstances (auto liability, no fault, homeowners liability, etc). Are the rates for those types of insurance going up as well? Is there a “private market” problem in those lines of insurance? I don’t know the answers to these questions–I’m just asking because I’d like to know.
I can explain why healthcare costs are going up…which in turn causes health insurance premiums to go up:
Someone without insurance has a heart attack and is taken vi aambulance to the emergency room where he is placed in intensive care after emergency open-heart surgery.
Who pays for the ambulance? Who pays for the doctors fees? Who pays for the hospital charges? Who pays for the lab? The list goes on and on.
The answer: No one pays. The hospital, the doctor, the lab, they all eat the cost and then what do they do? They turn around and start charging higher rates because they know that the next person who walks in the door has health insurance and the health insurance company will pay.
Don’t let anyone tell you the lie that health care costs have risen because of frivolous lawsuits against doctors causing the doctors and hospitals to raise their prices to cover their med mal premiums. That’s a load of bunk.
The problem in this country is that we way too many people without insurance who utilize our health care system and those without insurance pass those costs on to those of us with health insurance.
Frankly, I’m tired of subsidizing all of the people who claim that it’s their choice whether they purchase insurance or not. Shame on them for hiding behind the tired excuse of “personal responsibility,” becuae their lack of it causes the rest of us to pay.
Insurance companies and medical care providers have no incentive to fix the problem because they are all doing quite well with the status quo. Pharmaceutical companies, doctors, hospitals…none of them are suffering in this economy.
Incorrect. The hospital writes off their losses on their taxes. So the hospital doesn’t “eat the cost” they just pass it to the government, which yes, we the taxpayers end up paying.
So, in the end, the taxpayers end up getting screwed.
I see that you say “Don’t let anyone tell you the lie that health care costs have risen because of frivolous lawsuits against doctors causing the doctors and hospitals to raise their prices to cover their med mal premiums. That’s a load of bunk.”.
I read an article on here not too long ago stating that everysingle doctor WILL be sued before they are 65. Not “maybe sued” WILL….BE….SUED. You mean to tell me that that has little to no effect on the costs of health care?
Just what exactly is “Minimal Health Benefits”? Oh yeah, I forgot Pelosi said “We have to pass it to find out what’s in it.” And obviously, we still don’t know what is in it. Minimal health benefits that are going to cost the rest of a lot more then we ever bargained for because our premiums are astronomically high now and are going to go even higher because now we have to pay for the 40M who some have chosen not to pay for their insurance (some of which are the 20 something crowd who think the are invincible). Medicaid took care of the others who, some of which know how to “work the system”. And Cook County Hospital took care of the rest. St Jude’s still takes children whose parents do not have the means to provide the treatments for children struck with cancer and they are angels here on earth. As for someone who had a heart attach and does not have insurance, some if not all hospitals, will cover the whole expense. I worked in the health care industry, and have had clients that had all bills paid for by the hospital who had suffered a heart attach. You just have to prove that you are a hardship case and they will work with you. Obamacare is going to bankrupt us more then he has already with his first stimulus package and now he’s trying to do it again with is second stimulus package which is a total repeat of the first one. IF we didn’t pass the first stimulus unemployment would increase over 8%. Guess he was WRONG. And now he’s giving us the same old crap he gave us before, only now we are wiser, at least I hope we are for our sake. Solyndea should have been an eye opener. What an astronomical waste of the tax payer’s money. I hope Holder looses his job over the “Fast and Furious” that he knew “nothing about” and I also hope that Obama goes down with him. What did you people expect when you voted a committee party planner in to the highest political office in this country? Hillary had more experience then Obama ever had. What in the blazes were you all thinking when you put this most inexperienced person in office? Oh, I forgot you wanted to vote for change, and also you wanted to vote for the first half black/half white man (you all forget he is half white as well ) in office so you all could “make history”. I hope you’re all pleased with yourselves – you should did make history. I have one question – Was this the change you wanted? Or expected?
“Oh yeah, I forgot Pelosi said “We have to pass it to find out what’s in it.””
If you listened to what she actually said, you would know that what you’ve written there is a distortion. What she actually said was “”We have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it, away from the fog of controversy.”
What did she mean by that? What she was trying to say was that,at the time of the bills passage, many politicians were not looked at what the law will do, they were instead looking at the politics of the bill. So she was really saying, “look, once the bill is passed, and the law is in effect, you will see the benefits of the bill.”
Come on, do you honestly think that Nancy Pelosi, one of the chief architects of the law, didn’t know what was in it? She knew what was in it, obviously.
OK, maybe you think that this was some huge conspiracy. The law was so secret, even those that wrote it, didn’t know what it was they had written! Yeah, that’s the ticket!
OK, it’s been almost two years since the bill was signed into law. Have you read it yet? What particular provision is it that you don’t like?
Maybe you don’t like it that insurance companies have to insure children up to the age of 26 on their parents’ policies. I thnk most people would agree that’s a good thing.
Maybe you don’t like it that insurance companies can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. I thnk most people would agree that’s a good thing.
Maybe, and I’m just guessing here, but maybe the only thing you can really point to about why you hate the law so much is that the government no can mandate that you take personal resposibility to purchase health insurance. This is where you draw the line!
It’s OK for the government to draft you into military service in times of war. It’s OK for the government to force you to pay taxes. It’s OK for the government to force you to take time off work tos erve jury duty. It’s Ok for the government to incarcerate you for crimes. It’s OK for the government to be able to execute you for certain crimes. But No Way Jose, can’t make me purchase an insurance policy!
I love the Republican response to who pays for the uninsured’s medical costs: Die, or let friends, neighbors and church’s step in to help.
I can see it now: Our church is holding a bake sale to pay the $1,000,000 hospital bill for the emergency surgery and month long intensive care stay. We only need to sell 2,000,000 cookies at 50 cents each! Or how about people posting on Facebook: Hey, friends and family, I need to raise $2,500 a week to pay for my dialysis. Can you all pitch in?
So what I am gathering from Pelosi’s statement “Let’s pass this bill, regardless of any concerns the American people might have” I saw her statement as either ignorant, or in your case, as a middle finger to the American voters.
I’d like to ask you the same question you asked Amazed. Have YOU read the 2400 page bill? I have only read a little bit of it. I have little to no trouble reading an insurance contract, but I can’t make heads or tails of that bill.
If insurance companies have to carry children up to age 26, that means they will have to charge more for their care. So I say it is not a 100% good thing.
Covering pre-exisiting conditions goes completely against the ideas behind insurance. People will just pay the fine, or dodge it somehow until they get a pre-exisiting condition. Then they will magicly buy insurance since “hey, they HAVE to cover me now!”
I think you are missing the point of “person responsibility” You can not FORCE someone to be responsible for themselves. The minute you force someone to be responsible, it is no longer called “being responsible”, but “obligated”.
In extreme situations, yes it is ok for the government to draft for military service. One of the duities that the government has to its people is “provide for the general defense”. When there is a shortage of enlisted men and women, then a draft is made.
Part of providing for the general defense requires funding. Taxing is ok, but when the government starts funding more and more stuff that less and less people what, that is when taxation becomes an issue.
Jury duty, I have my issues with. Its a double edged sword. As is capital punishment.
One of the many problems with this health care law is that there is no opt-out option for the individual. Auto insurance is mandated in many states, but if you don’t have a car and you will not be driving on public roads, then you do not have to buy it.
Take a look at the average amount that registered republicans pay to charities that cover medical costs vs the average amount that registered democrates pay toward charities that cover medical costs. Does that sound like “the republicans’ response is to die”? Nice generalization by the way.
How about not rolling it out? How about defunding it and repealing it and starting over with private market solutions and no government interference? Small business does not want this and will only get waivers from it or stop providing the benefit altogether.
If you remember, the reason we don’t leave this to “private market solutions” is that “private market solutions” haven’t worked, have led to hyper-inflated health care costs, soaring insurance premiums, and millions of uninsured.
Businesses, especially insurance companies, have only one incentive: make as much money as possible. I’m not suggesting that businesses should have any other goal. That’s what businesses do. But don’t expect business to solve our problems. They have no interest in solving problems.
Whether you like it or not, a government solution is the only way. Maybe you don’t like this particular government solution. But don’t for a minute think that that the private market is going to help.
I’m going to have to lean a little on the other point of view’s point of view. When you’re paying $12k plus for health insurance through an HMO, not to mention copays and deductibles for each family member, any relief is welcome and the private market doesn’t seem to be interested in anything put raising the cost to keep coverage every year.
The private market solutions you speak of failed for a few reasons.
1. Government putting restrictions on them (such as not being able to sell across state lines)
2. Baseless lawsuits
3. People and the lawyers that back them, trying to ‘get rich quick’ from the system
As I have stated before, the issue I have with Obamacare is that it does not address the COST of health care. Lower the cost of health care, and the private market will do well with it.
I am so glad our leaders thought this through carefully and accounted for all contingencies. It would be terrible if there was some appointed person who made uninformed decisions on the fly without proper knowledge on the industry. A arbitrary decision by a political operative could be disastrous to an entire industry, actually two, so we are all fortunate our leadership has contemplated that in the extensive legislation.
I totally agree! I mean, how bad would it be if one of the elected offcials that backed this bill said something like, oh maybe something like that “we need to pass this bill so we can see what is in it”. How horrifying would that be?
My list I have respectfully submitted to the secretary politereat her highness Ms. Sebelius:
1) Free Pot
2) Free Viagra
3) Did I mention free pot?
Thats all I need.
Absolutely right. Here’s something from the HHS website:
From 1999 to 2009, health insurance premiums skyrocketed while Americans’ wages and cost of living grew at a much slower rate. Premiums more than doubled, rising by over $7,500 for the average family with employer-sponsored insurance. The cost of an employer-based family coverage plan rose from 12 to 22 percent of family income over the decade. Health insurance costs jumped as a percentage of private sector compensation from 5.4 to 7.3 percent from 1999 to 2009, eroding workers’ wages. Small businesses were particularly hard hit. The proportion of small employers offering health insurance dropped from 65 to 59 percent between 1999 and 2009. Part of the reason for rising costs has been reduced competition: these increases occurred at a time of tremendous consolidation in the insurance markets, both national and local.
********
So next time someone says “leave it to the private market,” remind them that the private market is the problem, not the solution.
I notice you are all talking about health “insurance” when you say the private market is the “problem.” What about healthcare costs? Are those not going up? If healthcare costs are going up, are health insurance companies causing that? What about other types of insurance that pay for healthcare costs under certain circumstances (auto liability, no fault, homeowners liability, etc). Are the rates for those types of insurance going up as well? Is there a “private market” problem in those lines of insurance? I don’t know the answers to these questions–I’m just asking because I’d like to know.
I can explain why healthcare costs are going up…which in turn causes health insurance premiums to go up:
Someone without insurance has a heart attack and is taken vi aambulance to the emergency room where he is placed in intensive care after emergency open-heart surgery.
Who pays for the ambulance? Who pays for the doctors fees? Who pays for the hospital charges? Who pays for the lab? The list goes on and on.
The answer: No one pays. The hospital, the doctor, the lab, they all eat the cost and then what do they do? They turn around and start charging higher rates because they know that the next person who walks in the door has health insurance and the health insurance company will pay.
Don’t let anyone tell you the lie that health care costs have risen because of frivolous lawsuits against doctors causing the doctors and hospitals to raise their prices to cover their med mal premiums. That’s a load of bunk.
The problem in this country is that we way too many people without insurance who utilize our health care system and those without insurance pass those costs on to those of us with health insurance.
Frankly, I’m tired of subsidizing all of the people who claim that it’s their choice whether they purchase insurance or not. Shame on them for hiding behind the tired excuse of “personal responsibility,” becuae their lack of it causes the rest of us to pay.
Insurance companies and medical care providers have no incentive to fix the problem because they are all doing quite well with the status quo. Pharmaceutical companies, doctors, hospitals…none of them are suffering in this economy.
Incorrect. The hospital writes off their losses on their taxes. So the hospital doesn’t “eat the cost” they just pass it to the government, which yes, we the taxpayers end up paying.
So, in the end, the taxpayers end up getting screwed.
I see that you say “Don’t let anyone tell you the lie that health care costs have risen because of frivolous lawsuits against doctors causing the doctors and hospitals to raise their prices to cover their med mal premiums. That’s a load of bunk.”.
I read an article on here not too long ago stating that everysingle doctor WILL be sued before they are 65. Not “maybe sued” WILL….BE….SUED. You mean to tell me that that has little to no effect on the costs of health care?
btw, I love the name “Expert Novice” :)
Just what exactly is “Minimal Health Benefits”? Oh yeah, I forgot Pelosi said “We have to pass it to find out what’s in it.” And obviously, we still don’t know what is in it. Minimal health benefits that are going to cost the rest of a lot more then we ever bargained for because our premiums are astronomically high now and are going to go even higher because now we have to pay for the 40M who some have chosen not to pay for their insurance (some of which are the 20 something crowd who think the are invincible). Medicaid took care of the others who, some of which know how to “work the system”. And Cook County Hospital took care of the rest. St Jude’s still takes children whose parents do not have the means to provide the treatments for children struck with cancer and they are angels here on earth. As for someone who had a heart attach and does not have insurance, some if not all hospitals, will cover the whole expense. I worked in the health care industry, and have had clients that had all bills paid for by the hospital who had suffered a heart attach. You just have to prove that you are a hardship case and they will work with you. Obamacare is going to bankrupt us more then he has already with his first stimulus package and now he’s trying to do it again with is second stimulus package which is a total repeat of the first one. IF we didn’t pass the first stimulus unemployment would increase over 8%. Guess he was WRONG. And now he’s giving us the same old crap he gave us before, only now we are wiser, at least I hope we are for our sake. Solyndea should have been an eye opener. What an astronomical waste of the tax payer’s money. I hope Holder looses his job over the “Fast and Furious” that he knew “nothing about” and I also hope that Obama goes down with him. What did you people expect when you voted a committee party planner in to the highest political office in this country? Hillary had more experience then Obama ever had. What in the blazes were you all thinking when you put this most inexperienced person in office? Oh, I forgot you wanted to vote for change, and also you wanted to vote for the first half black/half white man (you all forget he is half white as well ) in office so you all could “make history”. I hope you’re all pleased with yourselves – you should did make history. I have one question – Was this the change you wanted? Or expected?
“Oh yeah, I forgot Pelosi said “We have to pass it to find out what’s in it.””
If you listened to what she actually said, you would know that what you’ve written there is a distortion. What she actually said was “”We have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it, away from the fog of controversy.”
What did she mean by that? What she was trying to say was that,at the time of the bills passage, many politicians were not looked at what the law will do, they were instead looking at the politics of the bill. So she was really saying, “look, once the bill is passed, and the law is in effect, you will see the benefits of the bill.”
Come on, do you honestly think that Nancy Pelosi, one of the chief architects of the law, didn’t know what was in it? She knew what was in it, obviously.
OK, maybe you think that this was some huge conspiracy. The law was so secret, even those that wrote it, didn’t know what it was they had written! Yeah, that’s the ticket!
OK, it’s been almost two years since the bill was signed into law. Have you read it yet? What particular provision is it that you don’t like?
Maybe you don’t like it that insurance companies have to insure children up to the age of 26 on their parents’ policies. I thnk most people would agree that’s a good thing.
Maybe you don’t like it that insurance companies can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. I thnk most people would agree that’s a good thing.
Maybe, and I’m just guessing here, but maybe the only thing you can really point to about why you hate the law so much is that the government no can mandate that you take personal resposibility to purchase health insurance. This is where you draw the line!
It’s OK for the government to draft you into military service in times of war. It’s OK for the government to force you to pay taxes. It’s OK for the government to force you to take time off work tos erve jury duty. It’s Ok for the government to incarcerate you for crimes. It’s OK for the government to be able to execute you for certain crimes. But No Way Jose, can’t make me purchase an insurance policy!
I love the Republican response to who pays for the uninsured’s medical costs: Die, or let friends, neighbors and church’s step in to help.
I can see it now: Our church is holding a bake sale to pay the $1,000,000 hospital bill for the emergency surgery and month long intensive care stay. We only need to sell 2,000,000 cookies at 50 cents each! Or how about people posting on Facebook: Hey, friends and family, I need to raise $2,500 a week to pay for my dialysis. Can you all pitch in?
Give me a break.
You give me a break OPOV.
So what I am gathering from Pelosi’s statement “Let’s pass this bill, regardless of any concerns the American people might have” I saw her statement as either ignorant, or in your case, as a middle finger to the American voters.
I’d like to ask you the same question you asked Amazed. Have YOU read the 2400 page bill? I have only read a little bit of it. I have little to no trouble reading an insurance contract, but I can’t make heads or tails of that bill.
If insurance companies have to carry children up to age 26, that means they will have to charge more for their care. So I say it is not a 100% good thing.
Covering pre-exisiting conditions goes completely against the ideas behind insurance. People will just pay the fine, or dodge it somehow until they get a pre-exisiting condition. Then they will magicly buy insurance since “hey, they HAVE to cover me now!”
I think you are missing the point of “person responsibility” You can not FORCE someone to be responsible for themselves. The minute you force someone to be responsible, it is no longer called “being responsible”, but “obligated”.
In extreme situations, yes it is ok for the government to draft for military service. One of the duities that the government has to its people is “provide for the general defense”. When there is a shortage of enlisted men and women, then a draft is made.
Part of providing for the general defense requires funding. Taxing is ok, but when the government starts funding more and more stuff that less and less people what, that is when taxation becomes an issue.
Jury duty, I have my issues with. Its a double edged sword. As is capital punishment.
One of the many problems with this health care law is that there is no opt-out option for the individual. Auto insurance is mandated in many states, but if you don’t have a car and you will not be driving on public roads, then you do not have to buy it.
Take a look at the average amount that registered republicans pay to charities that cover medical costs vs the average amount that registered democrates pay toward charities that cover medical costs. Does that sound like “the republicans’ response is to die”? Nice generalization by the way.