“House Republicans, who have voted to repeal or cut funding for the law three dozen times, intend to vote again next week on another repeal that is expected to pass the House. As before, that effort will go nowhere in the Democratically controlled Senate.
Both the letter and the vote are largely symbolic but could signal growing Republican determination to get out in front of the administration’s public outreach program with a message that could reinforce already widespread public dislike for the law.”
If I were a Republican, I would be livid that my elected officials were wasting so much time and effort on symbolic votes and futile letters.
Why aren’t they coming up with something better instead? Re-craft the law, re-write it, do SOMETHING. Don’t just dig in your heels, stick your fingers in your ears, and say “la-la-la-la I can’t hear you.”
What a bunch of incompetent, do-nothing, nincumpoops.
“If I were a Republican, I would be livid that my elected officials were wasting so much time and effort on symbolic votes and futile letters.”
If I were an American I would be livid that my governement was spending $150 million to push forth a partisan issue. My tax dollars to promote something I disagree with? Put the shoe on the other foot Libby. If Republicans were in charge of the White House and proposed to spend $150 million of taxpayers funds to push an agenda you disagreed with, you’d be fine with that? Huh?
Duh. The Iraq War. Heard of it? I didn’t agree with that, but it happened anyway.
My point is it’s OK to not be fine with it, but do something constructive. Don’t write meaningless letters and waste everyone’s time on “symbolic” votes. Put your heads together and figure out what would be better. The American people are not as stupid as politicians would like to believe. If someone came up with something that made more sense, I’d be all for it – regardless of party. The problem is, no-one has. And I, for one happen to believe that healthcare is a very important issue in America today, so just saying leave everything the way it was is not an option for me.
So, I say “come up with something better or quit acting like a big crybaby with your little tantrums, Boehner.” It’s not becoming for a man of your stature.
Wrong argument Libby. I didn’t see the Bush administration spending taxpayer dollars to promote the war, they spent money waging the war which Congress approved on a bipartisan basis, not with the support of but one political party as Obamacare was passed.
Dave says: “If I were an American I would be livid that my governement was spending $150 million to push forth a partisan issue. My tax dollars to promote something I disagree with?”
They spent TRILLIONS of dollars on the Iraqi war that was a total partisan issue for Dubya. And it was my tax dollars on something I disagreed with. How is that the wrong argument, Dave?
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No to mention, Congress approved this Act and the Supreme Court upheld it. Have your temper tantrum, but don’t be two-faced about it.
May 22, 2013 at 8:48 am
Dave says:
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“They” didn’t spend trillions on the Iraq war, it was around one trillion over the entire term of the conflict. Meanwhile Obama runs up for a trillion in deficit spending every year and will add about $10 trillion over his 8 year term, mostly in social services, not the military.
Partisan issue? Really Libby? Do you remember how Hillary Clinton and John Kerry and a large number of other Democrats voted on that? Or did you conveniently forget that?
Get your facts straight before your next mindless rant.
Libby libtard, there is a big difference between the guvmint spending on a social progra, and spending to advertise a social program. It reminds me of Obama marketing the Mexicans about our freeloader program.
Since it passed the Supreme Court test, it isn’t going anywhere. On the other hand, it will take the GOP’s attention away from gun control, immigration, etc.
So Boehner broke away from the tavern and tanning bed long enough to draft another meaningless letter, eh? It’s no wonder, with actions such as these, congress has the lowest approval rating ever.
“Republicans are taking advantage of the timing of uncertainty and a lack of education about the health reform law before the administration has time to tell its positive, popular aspects,” said Julie Barnes, a healthcare expert.
Hate to disappoint Ms. Barnes, but there are aboslutely no positive aspects of Obamacare. Let me guess, Ms. Barnes is a liberal Democrat disguised as healthcare expert.
You have a great moniker Paul. Don’t you think it is interesting that the in the tank unions who really pushed for Obamacare are now jumping up and down screaming about the oncoming train wreck and the huge escalation in premiums around the corner? The Roofers Union actually called for the law to be overturned. They are afraid they can’t keep their hard won benefit packages and will have to throw their members onto the exchanges. What reason would a worker still have to join a union if his benefits went away. They are now asking for subsidies from HHS for their membership. It is estimated that the bill will cost an additional $500 Billion with a B if they get the subsidies they are looking for. The previous estimate of $3.6 Trillion over 10 years will end up at over $4 Trillion. This is called implosion for our liberal friends.
So Paul, I am soliciting your input on an article I saw on Politifact today about a family practice doctor in Maine who decided to not take insurance, Medicare or Medicaid from his patients. He also cut his fee in half on his treatment of patients. He said he doesn’t have time to fill out the volumes of paperwork and file claims with insurance companies on his patients. Seems like a good way to cut the cost of healthcare, don’t you think? He lost a few patients as a result, but he figures he will more than make up for it with the cost of compliance, staff salaries etc. My guess is that Sebelius and the IRS already have him on the watch list and he will be audited.
Is this another welfare program about offering jobs and spending millions to train those who can’t get a job on how to further screw up a government program or is it about spending on healthcare for those who claim to actually need it?
It just needs to go. The country cant afford it.
I cant afford any more taxes. I cant afford any more expenses. Ive had a sinus infection for 6 weeks. Dont want another doc bill so I am trying to fight through it.
Hey FFA, I hope you are feeling better now. We will all feel better when this dastardly bill implodes as it appears to be doing now. I think it is interesting that one of the big promoters was Max Baucus, the venerable Democratic Senator from Montana who saw the light at the end of the tunnel and it was an oncoming train wreck. By the way, he is choosing not to run for re-election. Hmm! I wonder if he is dodging his constituents and doesn’t want to explain why this is the worst bill ever passed in Congress.
“to persuade enough young, healthy people to sign up for coverage to keep costs from soaring.”
First of all young, healthy people have no jobs or money
Healthy consumers are necessary to compensate for the added risks of insuring older or sick people, who use more healthcare services and are expected to sign up in large numbers.
In other words, the hard working middle class are needed to make this work just like everthing else in America, they just keep sucking us dry and expect us to pay for everything and work our butts off for what…..?
Right Draetish, a lot of the failure to launch crowd living in mom’s basement have no intention of enrolling or even trying to get a job. They aren’t even counted on unemployment figures anymore. Hey, they have 3 squares, laundry done, can download apps on their iphone and collect their benefits without hitting a lick. So much for getting a college education. They are not qualified to work with their liberal arts degrees so who would hire them?
Where do you live? I live in Washington. To attempt and deny that there is a crowd who lives off the government is denying a very real problem.
Just a small example:
I know a girl who makes $19,000 a year. She has 2 kids. Her tax return, is $6,800. Do the math. She would normally owe $800 in income tax. that’s a swing of $7,600 dollars, or 40%. Pick your choice. She gets a tax cut that increases her annual income as if she were making almost $26,000 a year. Nearly the pay of a starting teacher. Day care? Paid for. Food stamps, $300 per month. $3,600 plus $12,000 for daycare. $15,600 worth of benefits. Now she makes $41,600 a year. I’m not done. She also will get assisted housing. Not sure how much that is, let’s say it’s half of the normal low end rent of $800 around here. $4,800 plus $41,600 now she makes $46,400. Oh yeah, and she will get free schooling if she decides to go.
Now my sister went to college. She had to pay for that. She makes $50,000 a year. She doesn’t get day care assistance. She doesn’t get food stamps. She pays more like $4,000 in income tax. She pays full day care now for her child. She doesn’t get food stamps. She doesn’t get housing assistance. I’m not saying she should.
Do you or do you not see the problem?
The person who was lazy and has children gets their college paid for, and earns as much as someone who didn’t and busts their butt. Which do you want to be? Easy or hard?
Becuase I will tell you now, there is a HUGE section of the washington population 20-30 year olds who do this, not small, HUGE and they are exclusive Obama supporters. Exclusive.
Bob this is exactly why minimum wage is fine…everything valuable is handed to them for free ……….
May 15, 2013 at 8:39 am
jw says:
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Agent’s comment specifically applies to kids without jobs. Your example is a single parent with a job. Do you have any examples that support Agent’s contention that the jobless college graduates living with their parents are receiving government suuport?
May 15, 2013 at 8:45 am
jw says:
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And, one more thing about your example… I’ve been there. I was the single mother with two kids who had a low paying job. I could have stayed home with my kids and received support, but I chose a job and assistance, like the example you provided. I eventually got a better paying job, in fact I moved up and off assistance quickly.
I doubt she could afford day care and rent and food on $19K per year.So, would you rather that mother stay home and never get any skills or work her way up the job skills ladder? If the alternatives are temporary support versus forever support, which do you choose?
May 15, 2013 at 9:55 am
Nebraskan says:
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Bob, the problem you are complaining about isn’t new, nor is it exclusive to the Obama supporters. This has been ongoing for a long time now. My sister graduated high school 20 years ago and was told by her high school counselor that it would be best if she just got pregnant because that was the only way she would be able to get any “assistance”.
Those of us that have always been in the lower middle class have known of this game, but some of us, myself, my sister, your sister, refuse to play that game.
May 15, 2013 at 11:52 am
bob says:
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JW I will start with you:
I was listing an example of how the government does in fact pay for people’s living. It was not meant to be a direct comparison. Nebraskan should know by now when someone basically is stating that the government is allowing people to live off it, which Agent has made clear is his problem.
Nebraskan: I don’t care where it started. I care that Obama continues it. When we tightened welfare in the 90’s, women in those situations actually were more likely to climb higher. Not less likely. And you are wrong about what people prefer. Many women in Washington prefer to be $19,000 in earnings getting a tax refund that pushes their income up to $26,000, higher if you consider their social security taxes are only based on $19,000. Obama does seek in many ways to expand what the government gives out. It is relevant that we already give out enough, which was Agent’s point.
The problem I am talking about is we spend too much. We give enough to the poor. We do not need to make sure there is incentive to stay on the government payroll.
May 15, 2013 at 12:16 pm
bob says:
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Nebraskan:
I should probably note in another post recently I commented that Bush W expanded child tax credits when talking to Libby.
My statement was that we should not be doing such things to buy votes.
My comment specifically directed that it’s been an issue a long time and we don’t need to further expand government assistance and discourage climbing to the top.
May 15, 2013 at 12:18 pm
Nebraskan says:
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Bob, you don’t know what women want.
My point is you (and Agent) are generalizing based on a feeling. Find me a specific set of data that supports what you are saying. I gave three examples to your one. Please note, I graduated from a high school that had the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the country. And I can tell you, while there were girls who stood out in this category, it certainly was far from the majority.
Have a good day.
May 15, 2013 at 12:22 pm
bob says:
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My oh my, Nebraska, I meant JW was wrong about the living off the government preference.
I just put it into your section by mistake.
Yes. My dad taught us not to even take assistance for college even though we were hispanic and there were 7 of us. He had this thing where toughness and strength was more important than receiving aid.
It worked well for us.
May 15, 2013 at 12:30 pm
bob says:
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Nebraskan,
The only number I need to show you that shows you are wrong is welfare numbers.
Assuming they each received only $15,000 divide it out: That’s 76 million recipients. And $15,000 is a huge number to give them each. This means the recipients are likely higher in number. There are only about 325 million Americans.
That would be 1 in every 4 people. It is not some small minority.
You try to state that I work in “generalizations”. No. I don’t. I am a numbers guy. And I know people. I know people do this. If you are trying to deny this then you are denying a real problem.
Governments go bankrupt off of dead beats. Not people who “cannot” support themselves. A small portion of the population mathmatically cannot bankrupt the nation. Also a true statement is that it is not possible that 1 in 4 people cannot support themselves, regardless of effort or choice. This leaves it that the majority of the deficit is those who choose not to. Not those in a bad spot.
It’s math. Simple math when you think about it.
May 15, 2013 at 12:38 pm
bob says:
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Nebraskan,
Something I’ll have to state on your “You don’t know what women want” comment:
I know that many women prefer to have kids and stay on the welfare payroll. This is by the numbers. As I showed you below 1/4 Americans is a low number. 1/2 of the total population are women. Women are the primary recipients of welfare. Women are the primary recipients of children custody.
Maybe I’ll change it so you don’t start some sexist argument: PEOPLE do not like to work when they can get things for free, as a result, women who more often get the kids, and more often get the welfare, tend to like to stay on welfare.
People do prefer to stay on welfare. When Clinton was pushed by republicans to cut on welfare, the amount of people who climbed up went up. Not down. Thus showing that people wanted to stay on the government payroll.
May 17, 2013 at 5:16 pm
FFA says:
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Neb says – “Bob, you don’t know what women want”
She is correct – no man knows what women want.
May 15, 2013 at 8:35 am
jw says:
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Just curious – what benefits are these kids collecting?
draetish, People like Planet, Celtica & Libby don’t care if the middle class has to work their butts off to pay for the ones who are sucking us dry. Their whole theory is that there will be hoards of young, healthy adults who will flock to the exchanges for coverage to offset the ones who need a lot of medical attention. Wrong! Young, healthy adults think they are invincible and will pay the tax until they get sick and need it and they know they can’t be turned down due to their condition. The sick will flock in because they don’t have coverage and know they will be subsidized on the premiums. The government is more than happy to provide them with “free” healthcare and raise our taxes to pay for it. What a scam!
“McConnell, citing the event, delivered his own message about the healthcare law and women on Thursday.
“There are many … small businesswomen who will see their dreams crushed under the weight of Obamacare’s nearly 20,000 pages of regulations,” he said on the floor of the Senate.”
That’s a load of BS. Small business owners (under 50 full time equivalent employees) don’t have to offer health insurance under the ACA. There is no penalty to those employers under 50 FTE for not offering coverage. They can offer coverage or not.
Furthermore for those small employers with under 25 employees, they can purchase their small group coverage in an Exchange and qualify for a tax credit toward the cost of the insurance they provide their employees, up to 50% (depending on # of employees and average annual wages to determine eligibility for the tax credit).
And lastly, I think more women are thrilled to have certain preventive procedures and screenings (think annual exams and PAPS, cervical cancer screenings, mammograms, birth control, breast pumps for nursing mothers) covered at no cost share for in-network providers, than are having their “dreams crushed” by Healthcare Reform.
DS I’m a female and I don’t want to pay for every woman’s birth control pills and abortions. And small businesses are not those with only 50 employees or less. Those are the businesses and employees that really get screwed because they are not required to offer coverage, probably won’t because it will be unaffordable (back to the free abortions).
Obamacare should be expanded and enhanced, not repealed. The Medicaid expansion should be strengthened, programs to address skyrocketing costs created, and IPAB given real teeth. If the country can afford wars in the mideast, it can afford health care for all its citizens.
Dear Independent Agent Guy: Well said! Why did we give the lifeblood of our soliders to the mideast and then spend billions in rebuilding it when our infrastructure is crumbling at home. Why is it patriotic to rebuild another country yet socialist to rebuild our own country -?
If you remember Obama said we would “exit Iraq in his first 16 months, exit Afghanistan in his first term, close Guantanamo etc. What did he do?
Has not closed Guantanamo, Did not exit Iraq in 16 months, escalated the war in Afghanistan and helped start a war in Libya and Syria to the point where his administration will soon be sending weapons to support the rebels.
How did he fund it? He used the American credit card and borrowed the money to finance the war from China. He financed the war. For Democrats that means we don’t have the money for Obamacare and we have to pay back China for his war policy.
Sargent, let’s not forget he gave $250 Million to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt for weapons that are likely to be used against Israel. We have Sequester popping up all over the place for Americans and we continue to fund regimes that are not friendly to us.
How much expansion and ehancement do you need Independent? A bill that started out with a price tag of $900 Billion over 10 years is already up to $3.6 Trillion and rising. Now, they want to spend another $150 million to educate the American people on its merits. Now, they will have to hire a bunch of Navigators to help people through a 10 page application to get a Medicaid styled policy. Programs to address skyrocketing prices???? After this bill was passed, costs have skyrocketed unmercifully. Companies have seen the handwriting on the wall and know they will have to take several million new sick people. How do you think costs will go down by taking on all these people?
The only programs that can do that are reduced payments to doctors, which Obama has already implimented, and reduced reimbursements to hospitals, which Obama has also already implimented.
Obamacare should be repealed.
11 billion on a budget, $150 million just to educate people on getting insurance. That’s $225 per head of an increase in insurance costs due to Obama getting the government involved in health insurance. This is not a debatable number. A $225 additional cost due to government intervention.
You want a public OPTION and I need to emphasize that, then fine. However, I think more likely due to your “bite” comment, you want to get rid of health insurance and switch to only single pay. That is wrong to do.
Let’s be honest when talking about what benefits people. And this plan, increases costs and mucks up the private system.
They need to be given less teeth and less ability to add $225 of costs per head of the 49 million. Do some math.
Let’s see, they call it the “Affordable healthcare Act” How affordable is it?
* Increased taxes
*Skyrocketing Insurance premiums
*Hidden and increased fees And
*If you have quality healthcare now you could get stuck with up to a 40% tax
Besides that it is at least a trillion dollars over budget and it is not implemented until 2014.
Affordable? Have you seen the stories in recent days that premiums are now expected to increase 100 – 400% as a result of Obamacare? Wonder how they’ll try to spin THAT one?
wvagt, Premiums in my state have not been projected to be that much of an increase in the individual and small group market – most of the carriers are asking for low teens or less. That is trend with what we’ve been seeing in the last few years anyway, not a skyrocketing 100-400% increase.
Sargeant Major, the Cadillac/Excise tax in 2018 is based on the COST of your plan, not the benefits. We have a group with a SUPER rich plan (like $500 deductible, $10 office visit copays, 100% paid in network etc) and even their plan premium is still not even 70% of the premium it would have to be to be subject to that penalty. Honestly looking at the plans of all of our groups, even the very rich union group plans, we feel only an incredibly small, teeny tiny amount may be subject to the Excise tax.
I just love hearing what people think about the ACA. My coworkers and I (employee benefits/life & health agents) are studying it every day, every source out there, talking to all of our carriers, listening to every webinar, hearing multiple attorneys talk about it, following every development in our states exchanges/marketplaces, and true there are many regulations and fees, but it’s honestly not as bad as people make it out to be!
Yes it is that bad DS. If the unions are upset about it, what does that tell you about what is coming? Read the Forbes article sometime when you get a chance. Their assessment is 46-146% increases on the way depending on the age and sex of the applicant. When you are comparing apples to oranges, it is easy to be misled.
One thing my state is considering with this expanded Medicaid fiasco is a bill to be voted on that would take able bodied adults off of Medicaid after the 48 month. This does not apply to seniors, the disabled or children. So, if you are able bodied and on medicaid you will either have to pay or go to the federally run healthcare insurance exchange and off the state payroll.
Sargent, have you seen the new Exchange App yet? They reduced the number of pages to complete from 15 to 10. Is that progress or what? The brain dead Obama voters will still have trouble answering the numerous questions on it and will need “Navigators” at our expense.
Sargent, I was sorry to see the story of Dave Bing quitting as Mayor of Detroit. He pretty much had an impossible job there with the way things are with the City Council, the unions, the graft and corruption at every turn. I think he tried hard, but they are incorrigible there. No wonder the state appointed a master to run the city. Perhaps they can get rid of a bunch of the offenders and sweet heart contracts that have bankrupted this once proud city.
On Friday, Obama will personally host a White House event to promote the law’s benefits for women, who will get free coverage for preventive services such as mammograms.
Mammograms have been paid for by insurasnce companies since 2009 as well as pap smears. A little misleading.
And as for pap smears and mammograms being handled by insurance,
Please note:
Screening for prostate cancer was and is a very, very serious issue regarding men’s side. It was not a matter of gender. It was a matter of how to integrate it.
Just as this was not an issue of gender with women and mammograms.
Personally, I don’t think this matters one way or the other. I was initially against Obamacare, and still am to an extent, but in my opinion, this should all be second to the nearly $17 trillion deficit. I currently work overtime to cover the tax increase from January. I guess I’ll work more next year.
Whether someone is a Democrat or a Republican, we are all going to suffer in the wallet if we don’t pay back what is owed. Unfortunately, most of what has been borrowed has come from Social Security and the like. Our actual debt to another nations pales in comparison to what we owe our own people. Both Democrats and Republicans have contributed to the debt, so both are at fault.
While I am not an Obama fan, I do realize there isn’t much he can do with this country. We were failing before he took office. We have been failing since the late 70’s. If you take the money borrowed back then, and turn it into todays dollars, it isn’t much different.
The economy will fail at some point. It isn’t going to be because of who is in the White House. It will be because WE, as Americans, let it happen.
Health coverage for all is a good idea. Giving money to nations burning our flag is not. Some moves we make as a supposed “Union” of states is almost comical. As some intelligent investors have already pointed out, we are already past the point of no return. Is it Obama’s fault? No. Is it Bush’s fault, no. Both Presidents did what they could to keep the country running at the time. We may disagree with how they did it, but I’ve yet to see a candidate from either party have ALL the answers. At this point, I don’t believe it matters. We are further in debt per person than Greece was/is. Eventually the Arabic nations will stop accepting the dollar as the fallback currency, then we will all realize the blame game didn’t go anything to right the ship. Of course it will be too late by then…
You make some good points uct. You were right that this nation was foundering before Bush took office or Obama. I trace it back to Slick Willy’s administration with all the new spending, the attempt at Hilarycare, the rise of Terrorism under his watch, the scandals attached to him, impeachment but not removed due to him lying before a Federal Grand Jury about having an intern under his desk. I suppose it depends on what the definition of is is. The Progesssive Socialists have their hooks into the country now and it will take a big effort to send them packing. We can start by winning back the Senate from the incorrigible Harry Reid who had kept a lot of good legislation from being passed by throwing House Bills in the waste basket.
Yo, Agent, you been drinking the tea party kook-ade again? Clinton left the economy in a very healthy state with a nearly $500 billion surplus. Bush was the spender. Two wars financed by tax cuts. Go figure how that crashed the economy. Chickens do home to roost, you know.
The attempt at Hillarycare was innovative and didn’t cost you a dime. Maybe it was better than Obamacare. Maybe not. But it sure got by the Supreme Court, didn’t it?
If terrorism arose during Clinton’s watch, then I guess this is confirmation from your side that Bush WAS asleep at that wheel during his watch.
Yeah, Clinton lied but people died under Bush.
Progressive Socialist. Good one. If we have progress with social programs, we will be a better country for it. But I know that you’re thinking commie, commie, commie. And I’m thinking if the Supreme Court passed it, then maybe, just maybe you have a chip on your right shoulder.
As I asked before: Which law could Bush have passed to revamp Clinton’s failures regarding national security?
I only say Clinton’s failures, because as you are a partisan fool, you have neglected to realize Clinton also took no action regarding flight regulations on air marshalls, what could go on a flight, and cockpit defense proceedures. Bush did not sleep on the watch. Neither Clinton or Bush was responsible for terrorist attacks on our nation, though one of the two, certainly made sure terrorists know you do it, you get a war. And countries now know you hide a terrorist, you go against UN sancations, you get a war. Obama seems to have acted similarly with Ghadaffi. He got lucky that didn’t blow up. He intervened in a matter in which someone violated UN Sanctions. So did Bush.
So while YOU drink the cool-aide, I’ll continue to show you that you’re a fool.
To do with the tax cuts, and the “clinton” surplus: Clinton was at the right place at the right time. It was not clinton that caused that surplus. There was a world global economic boom, oil costs were low, and both those were nothing to do with him. Canada cut taxes, and they did better with their surpluses. Clinton raised them, and our jobs went over seas, and our revenues did not, I repeat, DID NOT beat Canada’s. Now moving on:
The tax cuts helped with a recession that started in 2001, one that was a Clinton left bubble that popped. After that recession, our economy grew rather than contract. Had it contracted, our revenues and deficits would have been worse. Most economists agree, that because the economy did not slip into a recession, the revenues we received from the tax cuts were deficit neutral. Don’t show me some stupid source that compares revenues without comparing the recession of 2001’s affect on revenues.
You are so poorly educated, and so partisan, it’s quite ridiculous.
Bob, I think Celtica and Libby are conjoined twins since their brain spouts off the Progressive liberal talking points which are a joke. Maybe she has been going to Obama’s church in Chicago since she had the comment on the chickens coming home to roost. As usual, you handed her head to her. Everyone knows that Bush inherited a recession from Clinton and his tax plan was pulling the nation out of it when 911 hit and that changed everything. They think Bush should have done nothing about the attack and blame him for the deficit. Congress gave him the authority to go after the evildoers and he did. These liberal wusses make me sick.
May 14, 2013 at 7:27 pm
bob says:
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Agent,
I try. It takes lots of research.
Libby lately I’ve been debating with a little less. Celitica is the extreme one these days.
May 14, 2013 at 11:12 pm
stupid says:
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problem is, “if we have social programs we will be a better country for it”. Wrong! Free obamaphones, handouts for every imaginable expense for non producers does not make us a better place. As Reagan said, the best welfare IS A JOB.
The founder of the popular conservative blog RedState, Erick Erickson, has admitted the free phones began before Obama.
May 15, 2013 at 12:02 pm
bob says:
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JW is correct on this one.
However, to reiterate, Obama seeks to expand what the government gives out.
Most of the states that do wireless assistance passed it as a state funding. Not a federal one. Obama seeks to change federal issues.
May 15, 2013 at 4:19 pm
Agent says:
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Bob, I agree with you about Celtica. She makes Libby look mild by comparison. Libby is her cheerleader though and both need a frontal lobotomy.
May 15, 2013 at 12:42 pm
stupid says:
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JW – Obamaphone program started before Obama for sure, but as with every handout program, he bastardized and enlarged it. He now wants their broadband internet to be free. Oh yippee they won’t have to give up a single pint of colt.
stupid wrote, “Oh yippee they won’t have to give up a single pint of colt.”
Hey stupid,
Care to enlighten us who the “they” is in your world view?
General question – can you get just a pint of Colt 45? I thought they only came in 40’s. That’s the only way I’ve ever bought one. I prefer Mickey’s when going the malt liquor route, though. Preferably the little grenades and not the 40 oz.
stupid wrote, “Oh yippee they won’t have to give up a single pint of colt.”
Hey stupid, care to enlighten us who the “they” is in your world view?
On a side note, can you buy just a pint of Colt 45? I thought it only came in a 40. That’s the only way I’ve ever bought one, anyhow. Though, when drinking malt liquor, I prefer Mickey’s in the little grenades. That stuff was the main driver of my freshman 15 back in the college days.
Sounds like JW worked the system as it should be worked. Dont mind lending a hand to get on the feet, but the life timers on the system should be sent to a different country or something.
Neb comes from Alaska.
Obama Care is here to stay. When Mitt lost, that was ball game sure as the Cubs Season was over my April 15th and the Sox by April 30th. I dont like it. But, not much the govt does these days is even worth getting excited for. Its all about them taxxing working people and increasing the cost of doing business. Wish Quinn would go joing Rod, Jesse JR, Sandy, Ryan, Silver Scoop people, Grey Lord people, Barry Levine, ect….
FFA, there is hope on the horizon. We have three major scandals going on with this administration that just may bring it down or create the lamest of ducks for the next few years. I was telling one of my partners that Obama may have to wag the dog pretty soon to deflect all the attention away from himself and his cohorts in crime. The media seems to be waking up now since the AP scandal on tapping the reporters phones. They didn’t like that at all and judging from the grilling they are doing now to Holder, they may just find that investigative reporting is fun and let’s see what else we can dig up. It will be a rich environment to dig in.
FFA, In keeping with their recent issues on scandals, this “Transparent” government promoted Susan Rice, the serial liar of Benghazi as National Security Advisor, then they just nominated the wife of Cass Sunstein, the infamous Czar hiding in the WH basement as UN Ambassador. She has made the statement in the past comparing America to the Nazi’s of WW11. What a great Ambassador she is sure to make. Wow, you couldn’t possibly make a movie about this since it is crazier than fiction.
FFA –
I know they have no shot, but I’ll be watching The Bulls tonight. I’m sure Miami will close them out, but what a series out of Chicago against Brooklyn. We’ll get Rose back next year and should have a contender again. Tough to be taken seriously as a competitor when you’re missing Rose, Heinrich, and Deng. It’s good to see some of the bench guys getting good minutes and experience, though. Jimmy Butler has become a pretty darn good player. On the starting lineup, Noah is showing some offensive improvement as well. I’m looking forward to seeing a healthy roster next season. It would be nice if we could find a decent free agent to sign. We’re still missing a piece. Boozer isn’t the answer. He’s all right, just not the player that puts Chicago over the top.
Goose Island has some pretty good Belgians out right now. That Pere Jaques is a terrific beer. Sofie will taste really good on a hot day, too.
D Rose is a whinning cry baby. Pro Foot Ball Playes have come back from worse quicker. Now, Noah & Robinson – got spme scrappers there. Getting the job done no matter what.
Rose? Put a skirt on him and trade him to the WNBA.
FFA, perhaps there should be a clause in Rose’s contract taking away some of that $30 million he received for sitting through his “injury”. I have seen pro football players play with a cast on their arm after breaking it. Quarterbacks play with broken ribs and wear a flack jacket.
Charles Barkley has a quote – “If Jordan didn’t do it, it can’t be done.” Jordan never had to bounce back from a torn ACL and lead his team to a Championship. And, his mere broken ankle took away most of his sophmore season. Not to mention, short of a 63 point performance, he didn’t do much in the post season, either. So, Sir Charles believes Rose made the right choice. Time will tell, of course. But, I’m okay with Rose taking his time. The Bulls weren’t going to win it this year anyhow. I’d like to see you or Agent tear your ACL and then try to play a single minute in the NBA after rehabbing. Yes, NFL players have come back more quickly. But, they play a max of 16 games in the regular season, don’t have to play every play, and get rest in between offensive/defensive sets they do play. Football to basketball is apples to oranges, guys. I think that may well be the very place where the cliche originated. Certainly something along the lines of, “not even the same ballpark.” C’mon now! I will type this now and you’ll remember it later, you are going to eat those words about Derek Rose. Eventually they’ll be saying, “you mess with The Bulls, you get the thorns.”
Yes, Nate Robinson and Joakim Noah are workhorses and I love those guys! It’s an all-to-famous quote in Chicago, but, “wait ’til next year.”
May 17, 2013 at 10:50 am
FFA says:
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Team and his own physician cleared him to play long time ago. He chose to sit himself.
Nephew – union electrician (commercial) tore his ACL. 8 weeks back climbing ladders.
He milked this one – no doubt about it.
Also, next year winning something will enable people to forget about it.
And, remember Jordan play the game of his life while fighting the flu? Soon as the wistle blew he would colapse on the floor. Pippen would pick him up. Game on – ready to roll.
May 17, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Agent says:
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Planet, I know you prefer basketball more than football. You seem to denigrate football players by saying they only play 16 games in a season. Tell me, do basketball players get their bell rung on almost every play. Do running backs who go through the line and run into 260 lb linebackers have it easy. They play with all kinds of injuries that sideline players in other sports. It takes them all week to get over the normal bumps and bruises from the prior week. Many wear knee braces to help protect prior injuries. You are right about one thing, there is no comparison between football and basketball. Football is far more brutal on the human body from head to toe.
May 17, 2013 at 6:20 pm
FFA says:
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Planet Says “I’d like to see you or Agent tear your ACL and then try to play a single minute in the NBA after rehabbing”
I would certianly do it for $30M. I’ld do it for League Minn. Especially after team and personal docs cleared me.
Hell, I came back before Doc cleared me from a torn Meniscus and hit my only ever stand up tripple on the S Ball field. My professional Park District Career spanned 25 years. Was kind of commical. Walk up to bat with a limp. Watch the Out Field pull in. Hit it over their heads and run the bases with out a limp. Suckered them but good.
IRS targeting groups who said they don’t like to pay taxes, who are filed as 501 Cs but undoubtedly have a political slant doesn’t quite seem like a “scandal” to me. Is it right to target specific groups? NO! And, I’m just as upset at this as I was when IRS was targeting Greenpeace, Life The Universe Church, and the NAACP under President Bush. So, I for one, am being consistent on that one. Benghazi is a political circus, not a scandal. What about the 60 who died in embassies around the world when, again, President Bush was in office? Again, consistency here, please. Now, the AP is a curious situation and I am very interested in this. That could prove to be an actual scandal, although I highly doubt it goes all the way to President Obama. He’s just simply not that naive. First Amendment rights on the line there so let’s watch that one develop. As far as the lame duck comment goes, Agent, Congress has been refusing to act for over 4 years now. We the people need some action. Changing the legal BAC to .05 is not the type of legislation we need, either.
Planet, it is interesting to note that Media Matters, MoveOn.org have the same status as Conservative groups and their applications sailed right through without comment or trouble. Conservative groups have never said they don’t want to pay taxes, they just want limited government and accountability of the government and to stop the waste, fraud rampant in the government. Why did they put the Billy Graham organization through the cauldron when all they have ever done is good for the country and the world. Wake up Planet. You are also wrong about Benghazi and Americans died with no help even attempted even though the plane was on the tarmac in Tripoli, less than an hour away and then your bad actors tried to blame a stupid video on it and changed their talking points 12 times. It is nauseating and you should be ashamed to support these people. If you think there are not a lot of bad people in charge of our government, you are naive and I feel sorry for you. By the way Planet, the House has been acting for the past 4 years only to be stymied by your favorite guy Dirty Harry who won’t even allow legislation to be voted on. Who is not acting here? They are bad news and you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
We knew from day one it was an Al Quieda attack. They reported that it was an attack in response to a video.
The difference may seem small to you, but to the public the difference between:
It’s 9/11 2012, we just got attacked by Al Quieda Again (to a president who is declaring he has finally made us safe where Bush failed, and said the war with Al Quieda is over more or less)
and
Some guys just bombed us because of a video.
Is huge. They did alter the evidence, they did try as hard as possible to state that something/someone else was responsbile for the attack. We had people testify who knew nothing about a video who were second in command. If someone is going to say a video did it, and they disregard the number 2, it’s a scandal.
Benghazi was all about public opinion and image.
And while you say you are balanced, then you would see that Iraq was the wild goose chase, which Bush gave speeches on all the time stating what we were doing, while Obama’s benghazi is not, and Obama has not given speeches all the time. His only official commentary afterward didn’t even come from him. It came from a rep who basically said “everybody knows the republicans are out to get us” in regards to testimoney from PEOPLE. Yes. The republicans are controlling those people!
As opposed to a huge banner on an aircraft carrier embazoned “Mission Accomplished???” And following up a few years later to state we’re not concerned with finding bin Laden anymore?
Bob, you crack me up. You try to say you are not partisan, but you defend Bush with every breath you have.
Benghazi is trivial compared to finding NO WMD’s IN ALL OF IRAQ.
And Agent, how is going after Saddam Hussein Bush’s way of going after Al Qaeda? If that was his mission, he should have invaded Saudi Arabia. That’s where most of those terrorists came from.
I noticed that again after over a week and this article has died out in views,
Your and planet’s comments are liked far past the norm, plus 50 since the sites died out.
Where as mine are now minus 50.
Is it you, planet, or Celitica who tries to hide my arguments?
I find it more than a little funny that when you cannot win an argument with what actually happened, one of you tries so hard to hide my comments.
Your control issues, dishonesty, and refusal to talk about facts shows what type of person you are, but also, reflects the current democratic party. Just keep saying it until it’s true, and stomp out those bad guys by any means necessary eh?
Side comment: I have never dislike clicked any posts on this site. Not once.
You want an honest debate on any issue with Bush w you pick the topic. I’m tired of your vitriol.
Pick the 5 top topics you think make him a horrible president.
You will lose this debate forewarning.
I will pick my five favorite things about him. You will have to say how they were bad. I will have to point out directly how your 5 items are bull and show you the acts relevant (such as the retirement accounts Bush W created, medicare expanded for prescriptions, such as how the CRA issues caused the collapse, and you by counter, how medicare being expanded was bad, how those retirement accounts would have been bad, and show exactly which regulations were taken away which lead to the collapse. Naming the regulations will not be enough, you will have to tie it together in order to demonstrate how, in your own words)
Do we really have to treat this like a 10th grade thesis paper? I feel like a teacher talking to a kid.
If you lose, you will shut, your pretentious mouth about Bush w. If you have nothing terrible, you will accept that you were partisan.
Ready to lose?
Here’s hint: I’ve already gone over all of this and you’ve already lost the debate several times. So I already know your replies, and know your beliefs, and know they are not only wrong, they are partisan whereas mine are strictly facts, facts cannot be partisan.
Let me say that Again, because you liberals are trying to rewrite history:
WMD’s were not the reason we went to Iraq.
The word WMD was not even said when Bush w made the speech about going to war with Iraq. It was quoted toward the beginning, it was not even the main point toward when the war began. The main point toward when the war began was that Saddam was not abiding by any un sanctions. He was like a jock parading around stating the U.S. wouldn’t do anything. We lost respect while that guy did his peacock dance. Bush W quoted 16 UN Sanctions, he said Iraqis would be liberated, no WMD. Most of the time the axis of evil was talked about. Saddam did help Al Quieda just after the attack. It’s not an opinion.
While we did try to inspect for WMDS that is not what lead to the war.
We have talked about this, you were wrong, you refused to admit it.
Now Clinton on the other hand: His you will not defy the will of the world speech, where he sad Saddam had used weapons of mass destruction and would do so again, that was what he said before he bombed Iraq. So Clinton actually DID use the WMD argument to attack Iraq. So we aren’t having this debate any longer. You’re wrong, admit it.
Do you deny that Clinton bombed Iraq? Do you deny that he had the will of the world speech in which he said Saddam had used wmds and would again? Hold your precious partisan president to the same standard as Bush, you freaking 2 year old. Your emotions are getting in the way of your analytical abilities.
Bob – I have not liked or disliked one post on this article, or any other, in the past 6 months. So, I will expect an apology for your over-the-top “vitriol” towards me in that respect. If people don’t like your comments, it is not my doing. Maybe you should re-read some of them to find out the reason.
I will not debate with you about Bush, because you will not accept anything I say and will twist my words as you have always done in the past.
I’m not here to pick a fight with you about Bush or anything else. Only to say you call yourself non-partisan, while your partisanship shows through in almost every post you make.
May 16, 2013 at 3:52 pm
Libby says:
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Saddam not abiding by any UN sanctions had everything to do with WMD’s. That’s what the sanctions were all about. And your statement “We lost respect while that guy did his peacock dance” sounds just like something Bush W would have said and it is NOT a reason to invade a country. Sorry, that argument does not fly and lays a big peacock egg.
May 16, 2013 at 5:41 pm
bob says:
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Libby:
The 16 UN sacntions were not limited to WMDS.
16 sanctions for one program?
BUZZZ wrong. Now I’m going to yet again show you don’t know what you’re talking about, as I had to ask this same question when I asked “where was osama bin laden found”:
What were the Iraq U.N. Sanctions? GO.
I’ve had it with YOU twisting things and trying to appear that you know what you’re talking about. You did not even know until I informed you where Bin Laden was found. You guessed, incorrectly.
I talk over your comments because your points are moot. You have not had one single point against bush other than non verifiable facts. While I bring up DIRECT links of Obama suing citibank, you then state oh he was just 1 of 4 attorneys. It is not me being partisan holding our people accountable. You have refused to state Obama’s failures. I mentioned Bush W.’s child tax credit being something that allowed people to stay on government pay roll of a form. That isn’t partisan.
I mentioned vitriol in reply to you stating I stuck on my guns for bush. You stick in your “vitriol” guns against Bush. And yes, you are guilty of a form of “hate crimes” against bush w. When you speak without facts about Bush w, that is a form of hate as you aren’t researching your comments. Believing he fabricated 9/11 is a flat out lie, a bigoted one at that. I point out Benghazi mainly because Obama did lie. I noticed you didn’t direct my comment on Benghazi other than to state it was evidence i was partisan. Whether or not I am does not negate that they lied.
I will not give an apology for stating you speak vitriol about George W.
I am getting fed up with you in this post again. You may find my comments demeaning, but the way you speak of bush is far beyond it. FAR beyond demeaning. FAR FAR FAR beyond it. Let me say that again FAR beyond.
He’s you know just some guy who started a war with another nation what, for the hell of it and because he’s a bad guy according to you.
He passed tax cuts to stop a recession from hitting after the tech bubble, which you cannot deny burst under Bush’s watch, and in response to 9/11 destroying the world trade center, which you cannot deny affected trade (economy) and we DID NOT go into recession, and the deficits were lower than Obama’s. These are the facts. Yet you say, in partisan form “a war financed by two tax cuts”.
WRONG. That is partisan, that is rewriting history, and repurposing what those tax cuts were for and what they for a FACT did. They halted a recession.
We barely got by the dot com boom kicking our butt. Tech firms are still on the low.
So, instead though, in partisan form you blame Bush for the recession, you blame the bush tax cuts for our deficit (a lie) you state that bush w financed the wars with tax cuts (a gross over exaggeration for effect, not for the purpose of facts) and go no some hate spree.
It is NOT appropriate. I will reply as always stating that it is wrong.
Really, Bob. There you go putting words in my mouth again. Point out where I have ever said: “you blame Bush for the recession, you blame the bush tax cuts for our deficit (a lie) you state that bush w financed the wars with tax cuts.” As far as a hate crime against Dubya, I’ll agree with that. Hate is a strong word, but it about sums up how I feel about that moron. We will never agree about him. He was the worst president in recent history and should have been tried for treason. Enough for you? Cuz I got much, much, much more hate I can spew towards him. Let me repeat, MUCH more hate.
As far as Obama goes, I’m ready for him to be gone. He’s not been effective for the past year or more and Congress continues to be gridlocked. Hilary in 2016!
May 16, 2013 at 10:45 am
Captain Planet says:
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Here’s a real scandal – CIA director hand delivers evidence of potential terrorist attack on major metropolitan area, most likely by aircraft, to President Bush in Crawford, TX. President Bush then goes on longest Presidential vacation in history. Then, since that wasn’t long enough, head’s to his brother’s state in FL. Never takes any action on the evidence provided. 9/11 ensues.
No use Captain. I’m sure Agent will say the NY Times is a left-wing, commie rag that pushes the progressive agenda and nothing else. It will have to come from Fox News for it to be credible.
Actually Libby, the NY Times has a proven record of left wing positions and that is not just Fox News saying it. Many other sources say the same thing. I think it is interesting that even they are questioning what is going on in DC along with AP and others since their phone records were tapped. This administration has painted itself into a corner with these three scandals and just firing an IRS chief one month before he was due to leave will not be adequate. Holder should have been gone after the Fast & Furious debacle where he hid his incriminating papers at the White House under executive privilege. They were probably used for firewood on cold days to cover the tracks. Now, he doesn’t seem to know anything about what was going on with his minions below him. He never seems to know anything and just uses the ruse that it is under investigation and hopes it goes away.
Oh, Agent. According to you, the Dems are all conniving and scheming while the Reps are sitting in their pews with their halos on straight. I’d make sure my own yard was cleaned up before pointing fingers at others. Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Here’s something to know, when one party dominates the other, especially in the 18-24 age range, and has done so since FDR that party IS the more corrupt of the two.
They blamed the republicans for every single recession since FDR. They blamed them for racism. They blamed them for women not having rights. They blame them for not progressing, and they make it public.
At worst, we call you socialists. At best, you call us corporate supporters (while your party was in bed with Comcast in Washington, shut down a shipping company in Oregon, and as soon as one of you got control in Ohio they tried to shut out UPS from being competitive with Fed ex by passing flight regulations, THIS HAPPENED get over it, it was democrats) who want the elderly to die, and put the women back in the kitchen.
Sound about right?
We don’t believe republicans have halos over their heads.
There is no way in heck that democrats are better though. And that’s the point.
I have not heard one, not even one, criticism from you about Obama. Planet actaully has. I’ll give him credit for that.
I’ve seen Agent plenty of times say specific areas he disagreed with Bush W on.
How does a party dominating in the 18-24 age range make them corrupt??? Maybe that party just speaks more to the youth and has more to offer because it is open minded and more tolerant. Something young people are before they become all jaded and turn into fat, wealthy, republicans who care only for the economy and how much money is in their pockets and nothing about society or trying to make the country (world) a better place for EVERYONE – not just themselves.
All you and Agent talk about is the economy and how much money is coming out of your pockets. You judge an administration by how well you are doing financially and on NOTHING else.
And BTW, you still owe me an apology for calling me dishonest in trying to manipulate and hide your comments. I did no such thing. People just don’t like you.
May 17, 2013 at 11:49 am
Agent says:
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Bob, I see you are having an interesting discussion with Libby again. She should invest in Michelle Malkin’s book named Culture of Corruption. Maybe she could learn something about her exalted leaders. I was surprised to see her say she was ready for Obama to be gone, but just said he has not been an effective leader for the past few years. Hello! Maybe she should tune into the real news instead of reading the Huffington Post. In addition to all the aggregious incidents leading to the current crop of scandals, Obama just appointed the woman at the heart of the IRS scandal to head the enforcement division of IRS for Obamacare. What could possibly go wrong with that appointment? This woman should be prosecuted and put in jail for her actions, not promoted to enforce this terrible law on the citizens.
May 17, 2013 at 1:23 pm
Libby says:
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They’re all corrupt, Agent. Reps don’t have the best reputation for honesty and integrity. Watergate? Karl Rove? WMD’s? Ring a bell? It’s time to climb off your high horse and open your eyes and get your nose out of Bob’s butt.
May 16, 2013 at 2:09 pm
Nebraskan says:
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I have a question and it is not an attempt to sway anyone one way or the other. How does this affect companies that hire contracted employees from a staffing agency?
Libby, It is amazing that you continue to defend your Progressive Socialist leaders as they continue to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. The Holder & Miller hearings were very revealing as to the scope of the corruption. I have never heard so many I don’t know, I don’t recall, I can’t answer that, I don’t know who ordered that, it is under investigation non answers in all the years I have been paying attention. If you were paying attention, you may have a few questions too. Perhaps it is all ok with you what is going on. If so, your judgment of right & wrong is called into question.
I dont know a lot about OBamacare except for the excessive taxxes and premiums we now pay, but I think Libby is correct. Who ever wtites their check will be the responsible party for the Insurance.
We are headed to a temp / part time work force. People will have to hold 2 or 3 part time jobs to make ends meet.
I know I’ll never hire full time again.
Finally through my wifes thick skull about living in this good awefull state I am in. We will be looking out of state in the next few weeks.
Thanks, I hope things play out. I am just so fed up with what goes on in this state.
I have a nursing home the state owes over $300K. With out that getting paid quickly, all the coverage will lapse. About $10K annual commissions on that account. Ive lost most of my state funded business last year and now it looks like year #2 of Workers Comp reform is going to drain the rest of it.
I spite of it all, business is up this year ahead of where I was two years ago.
FFA, you have a right to be fed up with Illinois. I don’t know how you have stood it this long. They give a new meaning to the term “armpit of America”. I know there are a lot of good people in the state, but the bad seem to keep getting these lousy politicians elected so it never changes for the better. They are about as unfriendly to business as it gets. I wonder who they will end up taxing if good businesses like yours continue to leave in droves. California has the same problem. When will they ever learn?
Agent – There is nothing wrong with my judgment. I just don’t care anymore. These things seem trivial when there is so much going on in the world. Perhaps if we focused on the matters at hand instead of trying to one up each other, things could get better. Just sayin.
May 16, 2013 at 10:07 pm
Captain Planet says:
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FFA – you should check out Des Moines, seriously. One of the top 3 insurance cities in the US. We are only 5 hours away from Chi-town in case you want to visit for a ball game or watch the puck drop, and you can watch the Cub up-and-comers with our AAA Iowa Cubs. We are actually doing really well here. Forbes can attest. I don’t think we really even saw the recession here. The restaurants remained full and housing didn’t take near the hit it did elsewhere. Our schools are excellent, crime is low, and our downtown is constantly being improved, upgraded, and renovated. Not to mention, no tolls and our roads are better maintained. Should you check us out, make sure to look into Zombie Burger, High Life Lounge, and El Bait Shop. Can’t go wrong with any of them. Good luck in your search, FFA. Go Blackhawks!
What are the State Income taxes – Personal & Corporate? WI offers lower property taxes, no sales tax on food and gas about thirty cents cheaper then the Chi Suburbs.
Of course, everywhere is going to be lower then IL, just what is the lowest? I dont want to be any more the three hours away from my lake. North Eastern Iowa is on my radar.
I also have my Indiana Business to consider as well as my elderly parents I am trying to manage through end of life.
All in the mean time, business has popped. My producer alone has popped for $250K in the 1st quarter and looking like that again for 2nd q. So. bascially, I get to the IL border, take one more step and thats where I will be looking for housing (assuming my wife dont change her mind).
In you best guess – 1200 sq feet with 2 car attached garage – whats the pricing range on housing – ball park of course.
Wasnt aware the Cubs had any up and commers. Wrigley sports a bunch of should be down and outters. I am not far from their class A team. Not looking like your going to see any of them guys this year unless they are changing your oil or standing at the front door of wal mart.
These days, minor league games thrill me more then the pros do. Kids playing for a slim shot and the love of the game. Love the Little LEague World Series… Kids yet to be corrupted by the love of money.
My building sold this week out of foreclosure so a move is on the horizon.
North Eastern Iowa – twice the house as I have now. 2 Acres of land vs 50 x 150 in my town. Same price as what I could get out of my house here in IL.
Comes with an outbuilding – what could be my office. Talked to my wife about it last night and she shut it down.
One week ago today, she says lets get out of IL.
Bobs not the only one who dont understand women.
June 7, 2013 at 11:32 am
Agent says:
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FFA, Here is another gem for you about Obamacare and our wonderful Kathleen Sebelius, head of Health & Human Services. She made the decision that a sick 12 year old girl couldn’t get on the lung donor list. Is this an example of the feared Death Panels of this law only this time, the director made the decision. The parents did not ask for preferential treatment, they just wanted her daughter on the list in hopes of a match that would save the little girl’s life. Now, the girl will probably die soon. I wonder what would have happened if Sebelius was in the same situation as a parent.
Wow FFA, I wonder how bad it has to get before your wife goes along with moving out to greener pastures. It looks like you have your hands full. Bob, myself, Dave and Sargent all have trouble understanding Libby and her rants, but we generally wear her down because her old Socialism talking points don’t go very far since the theory has been an abysmal failure everytime it was tried in history.
Trust me Libby, you will never get the best of Bob on these blogs. He does his research, refutes all your arguments and usually the best you have is blaming Bush for the country’s problems. What do you think about Lois Lerner invoking her 5th Amendment rights in front of Congress in not answering questions about her role in the IRS scandal? Do you blame Bush for that as well? The scandals are piling up and the media is now reporting on it for the first time in over 4 years. They say sunlight is the best disinfectant. We shall see.
Trust me, Agent, half the time Bob’s arguments are so convoluted they are nonsensical. He throws in unrelated topics that have nothing to do with the debate just to try to redirect the discussion. He makes assumptions that are ludicrous, and when challenged creates some type of mousetrap-like contraption to try to bring it back in a way that makes sense – but rarely does. Just because he says in 1,000 words what most people can in 100 and really smart people in 50, does not mean he’s winning any arguments. Only people like you fall for the rollercoaster, twisty turny way he presents “facts.” Me, I stick to the basics. My beliefs and enough “facts” to substantiate them. You may argue with my sources, but I question yours as well.
“Here’s something to know, when one party dominates the other, especially in the 18-24 age range, and has done so since FDR that party IS the more corrupt of the two.” – Where are the “facts” for this comment?
“Yet you say, in partisan form “a war financed by two tax cuts”. – I said no such thing. Just another way to redirect the discussion.
“WMD’s were not the reason we went to Iraq.” – I know that and never said they were. I said they were used as an excuse to invade Iraq in order to settle daddy’s score with Saddam Hussein. The non-expressed goal of the sanctions was the removal of Saddam Hussein. The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 stated that U.S. policy was to “replace that regime.” And since there were no WMD’s, I rest my case on that one.
Libby, I take pleasure in arguing with you on your rant post. If you were a student of history, you might have read that Saddam used Chemical weapons on Iran in their big shooting war many years ago and that kept Iran from overrunning them. Later, the Kurds in the north were gassed and thousands killed. By the way, when the UN failed to act on 17 resolutions for a year or so, it gave Saddam the needed time to squirrel away his WMD’s to Syria. You need evidence? Assad has said he has Chemical weapons and will use them if the west were to invade him. There is strong evidence he has already used them on his own people recently. Argue that Libby the Obama lover.
May 22, 2013 at 3:10 pm
Libby says:
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So Assad got the weapons from Saddam? In a post-invasion interview, Saddam admitted that he had been bluffing about his WMD. Also, why, with U.S. forces massing on his border, would he give up the one thing he had to raise the cost of invading to the Americans? He’d been threatening for years. And why, oh why, would Saddam give his weapons to Iran’s best friend in the region? After all, he said he had them to stave off an attack by Iran. Sorry, Agent. This myth has been de-bunked long ago. But nice try.
May 29, 2013 at 12:04 pm
Agent says:
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Libby, do you really believe anything Saddam had to say about his WMD’s? He denied UN inspections for a couple of years. If he had nothing to hide, why not let them in to see for themselves? I guess that gas he used on his own people (Kurds)didn’t really happen, right? How about in his war with Iran? No story here, old news.
May 29, 2013 at 11:39 am
FFA says:
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She finally got her objection on the table to moving. She dont want to move by the lake because everything is 20 min away from everything. I asked about Beloit, Kenosha and or Racine. She said that would be good.
Libby…You are so full of misinformation …are you a liberalista democrat?
1. WMD’s WERE the reason we invaded. Chaney falsified a CIA report to Bush on yellow cake. All documented. This was the basis for which Bush invaded. Chaney may have and probably did have other motives, but Bush made the decision on that report, with the stated goal to remove Saddam.
2. Chemical WMD’s are well documented in Iraq. Saddam’s actions using these on his people and Iran are fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
3. Nuclear WMD’s are what Saddam was alleging and never had. He knew this was over the line and would get a hard response from the USA and UN.
4. The chemical WMD’s disappeared prior to our invasion..did he destroy or move them? Evidence from satellite intel and other sources point to them being moved to Syria.
Stick to the facts Libby and leave the propaganda at home…
Dear Architect: I am not sure what a liberalista democrat is for sure, but yes – I am a Democrat and very liberal. Oh! And proud of it! You may think you have “the facts” but they are pesky little things dependant on the source(s) you get them from. I do not doubt that the devil incarnate (aka Cheney) falsified a memo to the dufus, Dubya. Sorry Bud, but that only strengthens my argument against him being the worst president ever to have presided in office. As far as “WMD’s,” yes Saddam used chemical weapons against his own people, but that is hardly a reason for the “shock and awe” we brought onto his country and his people. There was a bigger motive at work there whether you want to believe it or not. So go back to your conservanista republican la-la land from which you came and leave the “facts” to the grown-ups.
Hey Architect, You must have been a very infrequent visitor to this site if you don’t know Libby and her posts. She admits to drinking the Kool Aid of the left and rocking on her front porch watching the country go down the tubes. She still thinks she is right on her talking points no matter how many times we point out the error of her ways.
Agent – And we all know your talking points no matter what the topic. Obama sucks. Republicans know everything. Does that sum it up? Oh! And Democrats are stupid. Most are lazy, leeches that take, take, take and give nothing to society. How am I doing?
I agree with you partly Libby. I have never said Republicans know everything. I have some real issues with the RINO element of the party since they have signed onto so much liberal legislation. McCain and Graham are two of the worst examples and should be sent packing at the first opportunity. All Democrats are not stupid and lazy. Dixiecrats voted for Reagan because they are more conservative. The problem Democrats have is that their party was taken over by Progressives that are so far left that they are ruining the country. The new entitlement society that is being pushed will bankrupt this country unless it is turned around. I think it should be enlightening to you that many unions who pushed Obamacare want the law repealed because the benefits cannot be afforded and union workers will be forced onto the exchanges to fend for themselves. Unions will then become obsolete. Their leaders now want Sebelius to subsidize their premiums. Can you imagine subsidizing 20 million workers? How much would that cost on a bill already costing three times what they promised when passed. What a train wreck.
I believe your exact phrase was “leave the decision making to the adults in the room.” Implying Democrats are not mentally developed enough to make decisions. But that makes no never mind.
I voted for Reagan, too, Agent. And I continue to tell you I am more fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. I agree with your assessment of an entitlement society – to a certain extent. I see this problem as much deeper than just political. I see:
1. Parents that constantly cow-tow to their kids, accepting bad behavior with no consequences, teachers afraid of their students, and everyone on the team gets a trophy. There’s something wrong with the way parents are raising their kids.
2. Along with that, we have generations of welfare families that no nothing other than the life they were raised in. That’s a problem that needs to be corrected.
3. In addition, there is a lack of quality jobs in America as many companies have moved operations overseas to improve profit and the economy going to hell in a hand basket.
All these things contribute to this so-called entitlement society, but only a fraction are those you like to refer to as the majority (leeches, sucking the American teet dry.)
But that’s the liberal in me.
June 5, 2013 at 4:53 pm
Agent says:
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Well Libby, that was quite a treatise. To quote you on an earlier post, you said you just didn’t care anymore. We Conservatives do care about what happens to this country since it doesn’t resemble anything we are familiar with. I’m glad you voted for my favorite President Reagan. It is too bad there are no Reagan’s around now to straighten out this mess and get rid of all the radicals in the current government.
I do agree with you that kids are out of control and parents do not take any responsibility for their behavior. They are unsupervised, many are cell phone addicts who can’t have a conversation with an adult, bad teachers in the union infested schools teaching nothing of value. In addtion, the welfare system has undergone big expansion in recent years which makes people more dependent instead of trying programs that will get them into jobs where they can be productive citizens. I also agree that there is a serious lack of quality jobs in this country. Small business has suffered tremendously under the weight of bureaucracy, taxation and regulation from government. Obamacare is just the most recent burden that has been placed on business and no wonder business won’t hire or expand with that specter on the horizon. In Texas, we provide incentives for business to move here with tax abatements to hire employees. It seems to be working because this state has created more jobs than all the blue states combined. Jeffrey Immelt, the infamous CEO of GE who is supposedly the job Czar for the President sees no problem in not paying taxes on GE or moving whole divisions of GE to China. Do you see anything wrong with that?
“House Republicans, who have voted to repeal or cut funding for the law three dozen times, intend to vote again next week on another repeal that is expected to pass the House. As before, that effort will go nowhere in the Democratically controlled Senate.
Both the letter and the vote are largely symbolic but could signal growing Republican determination to get out in front of the administration’s public outreach program with a message that could reinforce already widespread public dislike for the law.”
If I were a Republican, I would be livid that my elected officials were wasting so much time and effort on symbolic votes and futile letters.
Why aren’t they coming up with something better instead? Re-craft the law, re-write it, do SOMETHING. Don’t just dig in your heels, stick your fingers in your ears, and say “la-la-la-la I can’t hear you.”
What a bunch of incompetent, do-nothing, nincumpoops.
“If I were a Republican, I would be livid that my elected officials were wasting so much time and effort on symbolic votes and futile letters.”
If I were an American I would be livid that my governement was spending $150 million to push forth a partisan issue. My tax dollars to promote something I disagree with? Put the shoe on the other foot Libby. If Republicans were in charge of the White House and proposed to spend $150 million of taxpayers funds to push an agenda you disagreed with, you’d be fine with that? Huh?
Duh. The Iraq War. Heard of it? I didn’t agree with that, but it happened anyway.
My point is it’s OK to not be fine with it, but do something constructive. Don’t write meaningless letters and waste everyone’s time on “symbolic” votes. Put your heads together and figure out what would be better. The American people are not as stupid as politicians would like to believe. If someone came up with something that made more sense, I’d be all for it – regardless of party. The problem is, no-one has. And I, for one happen to believe that healthcare is a very important issue in America today, so just saying leave everything the way it was is not an option for me.
So, I say “come up with something better or quit acting like a big crybaby with your little tantrums, Boehner.” It’s not becoming for a man of your stature.
Wrong argument Libby. I didn’t see the Bush administration spending taxpayer dollars to promote the war, they spent money waging the war which Congress approved on a bipartisan basis, not with the support of but one political party as Obamacare was passed.
Dave says: “If I were an American I would be livid that my governement was spending $150 million to push forth a partisan issue. My tax dollars to promote something I disagree with?”
They spent TRILLIONS of dollars on the Iraqi war that was a total partisan issue for Dubya. And it was my tax dollars on something I disagreed with. How is that the wrong argument, Dave?
\
No to mention, Congress approved this Act and the Supreme Court upheld it. Have your temper tantrum, but don’t be two-faced about it.
“They” didn’t spend trillions on the Iraq war, it was around one trillion over the entire term of the conflict. Meanwhile Obama runs up for a trillion in deficit spending every year and will add about $10 trillion over his 8 year term, mostly in social services, not the military.
Partisan issue? Really Libby? Do you remember how Hillary Clinton and John Kerry and a large number of other Democrats voted on that? Or did you conveniently forget that?
Get your facts straight before your next mindless rant.
Excellent post.
Libby libtard, there is a big difference between the guvmint spending on a social progra, and spending to advertise a social program. It reminds me of Obama marketing the Mexicans about our freeloader program.
Since it passed the Supreme Court test, it isn’t going anywhere. On the other hand, it will take the GOP’s attention away from gun control, immigration, etc.
So Boehner broke away from the tavern and tanning bed long enough to draft another meaningless letter, eh? It’s no wonder, with actions such as these, congress has the lowest approval rating ever.
Yet another completely non relevant, bigoted rant from Planet.
I should never have said you were doing better recently. You’re right back to the immature commentary about politicians rather than relevant facts.
“Republicans are taking advantage of the timing of uncertainty and a lack of education about the health reform law before the administration has time to tell its positive, popular aspects,” said Julie Barnes, a healthcare expert.
Hate to disappoint Ms. Barnes, but there are aboslutely no positive aspects of Obamacare. Let me guess, Ms. Barnes is a liberal Democrat disguised as healthcare expert.
Let me guess, you are a fanatical Republican disguised as a national hero.
You have a great moniker Paul. Don’t you think it is interesting that the in the tank unions who really pushed for Obamacare are now jumping up and down screaming about the oncoming train wreck and the huge escalation in premiums around the corner? The Roofers Union actually called for the law to be overturned. They are afraid they can’t keep their hard won benefit packages and will have to throw their members onto the exchanges. What reason would a worker still have to join a union if his benefits went away. They are now asking for subsidies from HHS for their membership. It is estimated that the bill will cost an additional $500 Billion with a B if they get the subsidies they are looking for. The previous estimate of $3.6 Trillion over 10 years will end up at over $4 Trillion. This is called implosion for our liberal friends.
So Paul, I am soliciting your input on an article I saw on Politifact today about a family practice doctor in Maine who decided to not take insurance, Medicare or Medicaid from his patients. He also cut his fee in half on his treatment of patients. He said he doesn’t have time to fill out the volumes of paperwork and file claims with insurance companies on his patients. Seems like a good way to cut the cost of healthcare, don’t you think? He lost a few patients as a result, but he figures he will more than make up for it with the cost of compliance, staff salaries etc. My guess is that Sebelius and the IRS already have him on the watch list and he will be audited.
Is this another welfare program about offering jobs and spending millions to train those who can’t get a job on how to further screw up a government program or is it about spending on healthcare for those who claim to actually need it?
It just needs to go. The country cant afford it.
I cant afford any more taxes. I cant afford any more expenses. Ive had a sinus infection for 6 weeks. Dont want another doc bill so I am trying to fight through it.
Hey FFA, I hope you are feeling better now. We will all feel better when this dastardly bill implodes as it appears to be doing now. I think it is interesting that one of the big promoters was Max Baucus, the venerable Democratic Senator from Montana who saw the light at the end of the tunnel and it was an oncoming train wreck. By the way, he is choosing not to run for re-election. Hmm! I wonder if he is dodging his constituents and doesn’t want to explain why this is the worst bill ever passed in Congress.
Gee another $150 Mil and not one person will get to see the Doc or get a bandaid. Great! Where did my 25% commission reduction go?
“to persuade enough young, healthy people to sign up for coverage to keep costs from soaring.”
First of all young, healthy people have no jobs or money
Healthy consumers are necessary to compensate for the added risks of insuring older or sick people, who use more healthcare services and are expected to sign up in large numbers.
In other words, the hard working middle class are needed to make this work just like everthing else in America, they just keep sucking us dry and expect us to pay for everything and work our butts off for what…..?
Right Draetish, a lot of the failure to launch crowd living in mom’s basement have no intention of enrolling or even trying to get a job. They aren’t even counted on unemployment figures anymore. Hey, they have 3 squares, laundry done, can download apps on their iphone and collect their benefits without hitting a lick. So much for getting a college education. They are not qualified to work with their liberal arts degrees so who would hire them?
I wish I knew one person that was living the life you are describing. It would make me feel better about your generalizations.
Nebraskan,
Where do you live? I live in Washington. To attempt and deny that there is a crowd who lives off the government is denying a very real problem.
Just a small example:
I know a girl who makes $19,000 a year. She has 2 kids. Her tax return, is $6,800. Do the math. She would normally owe $800 in income tax. that’s a swing of $7,600 dollars, or 40%. Pick your choice. She gets a tax cut that increases her annual income as if she were making almost $26,000 a year. Nearly the pay of a starting teacher. Day care? Paid for. Food stamps, $300 per month. $3,600 plus $12,000 for daycare. $15,600 worth of benefits. Now she makes $41,600 a year. I’m not done. She also will get assisted housing. Not sure how much that is, let’s say it’s half of the normal low end rent of $800 around here. $4,800 plus $41,600 now she makes $46,400. Oh yeah, and she will get free schooling if she decides to go.
Now my sister went to college. She had to pay for that. She makes $50,000 a year. She doesn’t get day care assistance. She doesn’t get food stamps. She pays more like $4,000 in income tax. She pays full day care now for her child. She doesn’t get food stamps. She doesn’t get housing assistance. I’m not saying she should.
Do you or do you not see the problem?
The person who was lazy and has children gets their college paid for, and earns as much as someone who didn’t and busts their butt. Which do you want to be? Easy or hard?
Becuase I will tell you now, there is a HUGE section of the washington population 20-30 year olds who do this, not small, HUGE and they are exclusive Obama supporters. Exclusive.
Bob this is exactly why minimum wage is fine…everything valuable is handed to them for free ……….
Agent’s comment specifically applies to kids without jobs. Your example is a single parent with a job. Do you have any examples that support Agent’s contention that the jobless college graduates living with their parents are receiving government suuport?
And, one more thing about your example… I’ve been there. I was the single mother with two kids who had a low paying job. I could have stayed home with my kids and received support, but I chose a job and assistance, like the example you provided. I eventually got a better paying job, in fact I moved up and off assistance quickly.
I doubt she could afford day care and rent and food on $19K per year.So, would you rather that mother stay home and never get any skills or work her way up the job skills ladder? If the alternatives are temporary support versus forever support, which do you choose?
Bob, the problem you are complaining about isn’t new, nor is it exclusive to the Obama supporters. This has been ongoing for a long time now. My sister graduated high school 20 years ago and was told by her high school counselor that it would be best if she just got pregnant because that was the only way she would be able to get any “assistance”.
Those of us that have always been in the lower middle class have known of this game, but some of us, myself, my sister, your sister, refuse to play that game.
JW I will start with you:
I was listing an example of how the government does in fact pay for people’s living. It was not meant to be a direct comparison. Nebraskan should know by now when someone basically is stating that the government is allowing people to live off it, which Agent has made clear is his problem.
Nebraskan: I don’t care where it started. I care that Obama continues it. When we tightened welfare in the 90’s, women in those situations actually were more likely to climb higher. Not less likely. And you are wrong about what people prefer. Many women in Washington prefer to be $19,000 in earnings getting a tax refund that pushes their income up to $26,000, higher if you consider their social security taxes are only based on $19,000. Obama does seek in many ways to expand what the government gives out. It is relevant that we already give out enough, which was Agent’s point.
The problem I am talking about is we spend too much. We give enough to the poor. We do not need to make sure there is incentive to stay on the government payroll.
Nebraskan:
I should probably note in another post recently I commented that Bush W expanded child tax credits when talking to Libby.
My statement was that we should not be doing such things to buy votes.
My comment specifically directed that it’s been an issue a long time and we don’t need to further expand government assistance and discourage climbing to the top.
Bob, you don’t know what women want.
My point is you (and Agent) are generalizing based on a feeling. Find me a specific set of data that supports what you are saying. I gave three examples to your one. Please note, I graduated from a high school that had the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the country. And I can tell you, while there were girls who stood out in this category, it certainly was far from the majority.
Have a good day.
My oh my, Nebraska, I meant JW was wrong about the living off the government preference.
I just put it into your section by mistake.
Yes. My dad taught us not to even take assistance for college even though we were hispanic and there were 7 of us. He had this thing where toughness and strength was more important than receiving aid.
It worked well for us.
Nebraskan,
The only number I need to show you that shows you are wrong is welfare numbers.
$1.03 trillion combined state and federal.
http://www.ijreview.com/2012/10/19431-welfare-spending-hits-1-03-trillion-largest-government-expense-in-fy-2011/
Assuming they each received only $15,000 divide it out: That’s 76 million recipients. And $15,000 is a huge number to give them each. This means the recipients are likely higher in number. There are only about 325 million Americans.
That would be 1 in every 4 people. It is not some small minority.
You try to state that I work in “generalizations”. No. I don’t. I am a numbers guy. And I know people. I know people do this. If you are trying to deny this then you are denying a real problem.
Governments go bankrupt off of dead beats. Not people who “cannot” support themselves. A small portion of the population mathmatically cannot bankrupt the nation. Also a true statement is that it is not possible that 1 in 4 people cannot support themselves, regardless of effort or choice. This leaves it that the majority of the deficit is those who choose not to. Not those in a bad spot.
It’s math. Simple math when you think about it.
Nebraskan,
Something I’ll have to state on your “You don’t know what women want” comment:
I know that many women prefer to have kids and stay on the welfare payroll. This is by the numbers. As I showed you below 1/4 Americans is a low number. 1/2 of the total population are women. Women are the primary recipients of welfare. Women are the primary recipients of children custody.
Maybe I’ll change it so you don’t start some sexist argument: PEOPLE do not like to work when they can get things for free, as a result, women who more often get the kids, and more often get the welfare, tend to like to stay on welfare.
People do prefer to stay on welfare. When Clinton was pushed by republicans to cut on welfare, the amount of people who climbed up went up. Not down. Thus showing that people wanted to stay on the government payroll.
Neb says – “Bob, you don’t know what women want”
She is correct – no man knows what women want.
Just curious – what benefits are these kids collecting?
JW:
Now on that I’m unsure.
draetish, People like Planet, Celtica & Libby don’t care if the middle class has to work their butts off to pay for the ones who are sucking us dry. Their whole theory is that there will be hoards of young, healthy adults who will flock to the exchanges for coverage to offset the ones who need a lot of medical attention. Wrong! Young, healthy adults think they are invincible and will pay the tax until they get sick and need it and they know they can’t be turned down due to their condition. The sick will flock in because they don’t have coverage and know they will be subsidized on the premiums. The government is more than happy to provide them with “free” healthcare and raise our taxes to pay for it. What a scam!
“McConnell, citing the event, delivered his own message about the healthcare law and women on Thursday.
“There are many … small businesswomen who will see their dreams crushed under the weight of Obamacare’s nearly 20,000 pages of regulations,” he said on the floor of the Senate.”
That’s a load of BS. Small business owners (under 50 full time equivalent employees) don’t have to offer health insurance under the ACA. There is no penalty to those employers under 50 FTE for not offering coverage. They can offer coverage or not.
Furthermore for those small employers with under 25 employees, they can purchase their small group coverage in an Exchange and qualify for a tax credit toward the cost of the insurance they provide their employees, up to 50% (depending on # of employees and average annual wages to determine eligibility for the tax credit).
And lastly, I think more women are thrilled to have certain preventive procedures and screenings (think annual exams and PAPS, cervical cancer screenings, mammograms, birth control, breast pumps for nursing mothers) covered at no cost share for in-network providers, than are having their “dreams crushed” by Healthcare Reform.
DS I’m a female and I don’t want to pay for every woman’s birth control pills and abortions. And small businesses are not those with only 50 employees or less. Those are the businesses and employees that really get screwed because they are not required to offer coverage, probably won’t because it will be unaffordable (back to the free abortions).
Obamacare should be expanded and enhanced, not repealed. The Medicaid expansion should be strengthened, programs to address skyrocketing costs created, and IPAB given real teeth. If the country can afford wars in the mideast, it can afford health care for all its citizens.
Agreed!!
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
Dear Independent Agent Guy: Well said! Why did we give the lifeblood of our soliders to the mideast and then spend billions in rebuilding it when our infrastructure is crumbling at home. Why is it patriotic to rebuild another country yet socialist to rebuild our own country -?
I just don’t get it.
If you remember Obama said we would “exit Iraq in his first 16 months, exit Afghanistan in his first term, close Guantanamo etc. What did he do?
Has not closed Guantanamo, Did not exit Iraq in 16 months, escalated the war in Afghanistan and helped start a war in Libya and Syria to the point where his administration will soon be sending weapons to support the rebels.
How did he fund it? He used the American credit card and borrowed the money to finance the war from China. He financed the war. For Democrats that means we don’t have the money for Obamacare and we have to pay back China for his war policy.
Sargent, let’s not forget he gave $250 Million to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt for weapons that are likely to be used against Israel. We have Sequester popping up all over the place for Americans and we continue to fund regimes that are not friendly to us.
How much expansion and ehancement do you need Independent? A bill that started out with a price tag of $900 Billion over 10 years is already up to $3.6 Trillion and rising. Now, they want to spend another $150 million to educate the American people on its merits. Now, they will have to hire a bunch of Navigators to help people through a 10 page application to get a Medicaid styled policy. Programs to address skyrocketing prices???? After this bill was passed, costs have skyrocketed unmercifully. Companies have seen the handwriting on the wall and know they will have to take several million new sick people. How do you think costs will go down by taking on all these people?
“programs to address skyrocketing costs”
The only programs that can do that are reduced payments to doctors, which Obama has already implimented, and reduced reimbursements to hospitals, which Obama has also already implimented.
Obamacare should be repealed.
11 billion on a budget, $150 million just to educate people on getting insurance. That’s $225 per head of an increase in insurance costs due to Obama getting the government involved in health insurance. This is not a debatable number. A $225 additional cost due to government intervention.
You want a public OPTION and I need to emphasize that, then fine. However, I think more likely due to your “bite” comment, you want to get rid of health insurance and switch to only single pay. That is wrong to do.
Let’s be honest when talking about what benefits people. And this plan, increases costs and mucks up the private system.
They need to be given less teeth and less ability to add $225 of costs per head of the 49 million. Do some math.
???Expanded and enhanced??? How about just printing more money? How about getting your hand out of my pants pocket????
Republicans are so funny. Another symbolic act of futility.
You know what I see when I see this?
“Resistance is futile”
Do you pride yourself in being able to dominate?
Maybe I’m just a Star Trek Nerd or Maybe, just maybe, you’re just a bad person when it comes to how you think of politics.
Let’s see, they call it the “Affordable healthcare Act” How affordable is it?
* Increased taxes
*Skyrocketing Insurance premiums
*Hidden and increased fees And
*If you have quality healthcare now you could get stuck with up to a 40% tax
Besides that it is at least a trillion dollars over budget and it is not implemented until 2014.
Wow that is what I call affordable
Affordable? Have you seen the stories in recent days that premiums are now expected to increase 100 – 400% as a result of Obamacare? Wonder how they’ll try to spin THAT one?
wvagt, Premiums in my state have not been projected to be that much of an increase in the individual and small group market – most of the carriers are asking for low teens or less. That is trend with what we’ve been seeing in the last few years anyway, not a skyrocketing 100-400% increase.
Sargeant Major, the Cadillac/Excise tax in 2018 is based on the COST of your plan, not the benefits. We have a group with a SUPER rich plan (like $500 deductible, $10 office visit copays, 100% paid in network etc) and even their plan premium is still not even 70% of the premium it would have to be to be subject to that penalty. Honestly looking at the plans of all of our groups, even the very rich union group plans, we feel only an incredibly small, teeny tiny amount may be subject to the Excise tax.
I just love hearing what people think about the ACA. My coworkers and I (employee benefits/life & health agents) are studying it every day, every source out there, talking to all of our carriers, listening to every webinar, hearing multiple attorneys talk about it, following every development in our states exchanges/marketplaces, and true there are many regulations and fees, but it’s honestly not as bad as people make it out to be!
Yes it is that bad DS. If the unions are upset about it, what does that tell you about what is coming? Read the Forbes article sometime when you get a chance. Their assessment is 46-146% increases on the way depending on the age and sex of the applicant. When you are comparing apples to oranges, it is easy to be misled.
One thing my state is considering with this expanded Medicaid fiasco is a bill to be voted on that would take able bodied adults off of Medicaid after the 48 month. This does not apply to seniors, the disabled or children. So, if you are able bodied and on medicaid you will either have to pay or go to the federally run healthcare insurance exchange and off the state payroll.
Sargent, have you seen the new Exchange App yet? They reduced the number of pages to complete from 15 to 10. Is that progress or what? The brain dead Obama voters will still have trouble answering the numerous questions on it and will need “Navigators” at our expense.
Only problem is that Obama voters are super good at waiting in line and filling out ppwk for free money.
They will need a Navigator for this obscene app. Of course that will be a cost we will have to bear.
Sargent, I was sorry to see the story of Dave Bing quitting as Mayor of Detroit. He pretty much had an impossible job there with the way things are with the City Council, the unions, the graft and corruption at every turn. I think he tried hard, but they are incorrigible there. No wonder the state appointed a master to run the city. Perhaps they can get rid of a bunch of the offenders and sweet heart contracts that have bankrupted this once proud city.
On Friday, Obama will personally host a White House event to promote the law’s benefits for women, who will get free coverage for preventive services such as mammograms.
Mammograms have been paid for by insurasnce companies since 2009 as well as pap smears. A little misleading.
What about those that didn’t have insurance since 2009?
Good use of tax payer money.
I, for one, think it is. Much better than blowing up the Middle East. I’d much rather have my tax money go to providing health care to OUR citizens.
I would just assume that ALL FOREIGN AID gets cut untill every LEGAL American dont go to bed hungry.
>Mammograms have been paid for by insurasnce companies since 2009 as well as pap smears. A little misleading.
Since 2009, you say. Hmmm, isn’t what when Bush left office. Note 2009 as the year women achieved some equality in health care.
Women did not lose rights under Bush.
And as for pap smears and mammograms being handled by insurance,
Please note:
Screening for prostate cancer was and is a very, very serious issue regarding men’s side. It was not a matter of gender. It was a matter of how to integrate it.
Just as this was not an issue of gender with women and mammograms.
How about a pap smear right there at the function?
Personally, I don’t think this matters one way or the other. I was initially against Obamacare, and still am to an extent, but in my opinion, this should all be second to the nearly $17 trillion deficit. I currently work overtime to cover the tax increase from January. I guess I’ll work more next year.
Whether someone is a Democrat or a Republican, we are all going to suffer in the wallet if we don’t pay back what is owed. Unfortunately, most of what has been borrowed has come from Social Security and the like. Our actual debt to another nations pales in comparison to what we owe our own people. Both Democrats and Republicans have contributed to the debt, so both are at fault.
While I am not an Obama fan, I do realize there isn’t much he can do with this country. We were failing before he took office. We have been failing since the late 70’s. If you take the money borrowed back then, and turn it into todays dollars, it isn’t much different.
The economy will fail at some point. It isn’t going to be because of who is in the White House. It will be because WE, as Americans, let it happen.
Health coverage for all is a good idea. Giving money to nations burning our flag is not. Some moves we make as a supposed “Union” of states is almost comical. As some intelligent investors have already pointed out, we are already past the point of no return. Is it Obama’s fault? No. Is it Bush’s fault, no. Both Presidents did what they could to keep the country running at the time. We may disagree with how they did it, but I’ve yet to see a candidate from either party have ALL the answers. At this point, I don’t believe it matters. We are further in debt per person than Greece was/is. Eventually the Arabic nations will stop accepting the dollar as the fallback currency, then we will all realize the blame game didn’t go anything to right the ship. Of course it will be too late by then…
You make some good points uct. You were right that this nation was foundering before Bush took office or Obama. I trace it back to Slick Willy’s administration with all the new spending, the attempt at Hilarycare, the rise of Terrorism under his watch, the scandals attached to him, impeachment but not removed due to him lying before a Federal Grand Jury about having an intern under his desk. I suppose it depends on what the definition of is is. The Progesssive Socialists have their hooks into the country now and it will take a big effort to send them packing. We can start by winning back the Senate from the incorrigible Harry Reid who had kept a lot of good legislation from being passed by throwing House Bills in the waste basket.
Yo, Agent, you been drinking the tea party kook-ade again? Clinton left the economy in a very healthy state with a nearly $500 billion surplus. Bush was the spender. Two wars financed by tax cuts. Go figure how that crashed the economy. Chickens do home to roost, you know.
The attempt at Hillarycare was innovative and didn’t cost you a dime. Maybe it was better than Obamacare. Maybe not. But it sure got by the Supreme Court, didn’t it?
If terrorism arose during Clinton’s watch, then I guess this is confirmation from your side that Bush WAS asleep at that wheel during his watch.
Yeah, Clinton lied but people died under Bush.
Progressive Socialist. Good one. If we have progress with social programs, we will be a better country for it. But I know that you’re thinking commie, commie, commie. And I’m thinking if the Supreme Court passed it, then maybe, just maybe you have a chip on your right shoulder.
Booyah!
Bush:
Inagurated January 2001
9/11 attack: September 11th 2001.
As I asked before: Which law could Bush have passed to revamp Clinton’s failures regarding national security?
I only say Clinton’s failures, because as you are a partisan fool, you have neglected to realize Clinton also took no action regarding flight regulations on air marshalls, what could go on a flight, and cockpit defense proceedures. Bush did not sleep on the watch. Neither Clinton or Bush was responsible for terrorist attacks on our nation, though one of the two, certainly made sure terrorists know you do it, you get a war. And countries now know you hide a terrorist, you go against UN sancations, you get a war. Obama seems to have acted similarly with Ghadaffi. He got lucky that didn’t blow up. He intervened in a matter in which someone violated UN Sanctions. So did Bush.
So while YOU drink the cool-aide, I’ll continue to show you that you’re a fool.
To do with the tax cuts, and the “clinton” surplus: Clinton was at the right place at the right time. It was not clinton that caused that surplus. There was a world global economic boom, oil costs were low, and both those were nothing to do with him. Canada cut taxes, and they did better with their surpluses. Clinton raised them, and our jobs went over seas, and our revenues did not, I repeat, DID NOT beat Canada’s. Now moving on:
The tax cuts helped with a recession that started in 2001, one that was a Clinton left bubble that popped. After that recession, our economy grew rather than contract. Had it contracted, our revenues and deficits would have been worse. Most economists agree, that because the economy did not slip into a recession, the revenues we received from the tax cuts were deficit neutral. Don’t show me some stupid source that compares revenues without comparing the recession of 2001’s affect on revenues.
You are so poorly educated, and so partisan, it’s quite ridiculous.
Bob, I think Celtica and Libby are conjoined twins since their brain spouts off the Progressive liberal talking points which are a joke. Maybe she has been going to Obama’s church in Chicago since she had the comment on the chickens coming home to roost. As usual, you handed her head to her. Everyone knows that Bush inherited a recession from Clinton and his tax plan was pulling the nation out of it when 911 hit and that changed everything. They think Bush should have done nothing about the attack and blame him for the deficit. Congress gave him the authority to go after the evildoers and he did. These liberal wusses make me sick.
Agent,
I try. It takes lots of research.
Libby lately I’ve been debating with a little less. Celitica is the extreme one these days.
problem is, “if we have social programs we will be a better country for it”. Wrong! Free obamaphones, handouts for every imaginable expense for non producers does not make us a better place. As Reagan said, the best welfare IS A JOB.
The founder of the popular conservative blog RedState, Erick Erickson, has admitted the free phones began before Obama.
JW is correct on this one.
However, to reiterate, Obama seeks to expand what the government gives out.
Most of the states that do wireless assistance passed it as a state funding. Not a federal one. Obama seeks to change federal issues.
Bob, I agree with you about Celtica. She makes Libby look mild by comparison. Libby is her cheerleader though and both need a frontal lobotomy.
JW – Obamaphone program started before Obama for sure, but as with every handout program, he bastardized and enlarged it. He now wants their broadband internet to be free. Oh yippee they won’t have to give up a single pint of colt.
stupid wrote, “Oh yippee they won’t have to give up a single pint of colt.”
Hey stupid,
Care to enlighten us who the “they” is in your world view?
General question – can you get just a pint of Colt 45? I thought they only came in 40’s. That’s the only way I’ve ever bought one. I prefer Mickey’s when going the malt liquor route, though. Preferably the little grenades and not the 40 oz.
stupid wrote, “Oh yippee they won’t have to give up a single pint of colt.”
Hey stupid, care to enlighten us who the “they” is in your world view?
On a side note, can you buy just a pint of Colt 45? I thought it only came in a 40. That’s the only way I’ve ever bought one, anyhow. Though, when drinking malt liquor, I prefer Mickey’s in the little grenades. That stuff was the main driver of my freshman 15 back in the college days.
(echo)
Sounds like JW worked the system as it should be worked. Dont mind lending a hand to get on the feet, but the life timers on the system should be sent to a different country or something.
Neb comes from Alaska.
Obama Care is here to stay. When Mitt lost, that was ball game sure as the Cubs Season was over my April 15th and the Sox by April 30th. I dont like it. But, not much the govt does these days is even worth getting excited for. Its all about them taxxing working people and increasing the cost of doing business. Wish Quinn would go joing Rod, Jesse JR, Sandy, Ryan, Silver Scoop people, Grey Lord people, Barry Levine, ect….
Best thing going for Chicago – The Black Hawks!
FFA, there is hope on the horizon. We have three major scandals going on with this administration that just may bring it down or create the lamest of ducks for the next few years. I was telling one of my partners that Obama may have to wag the dog pretty soon to deflect all the attention away from himself and his cohorts in crime. The media seems to be waking up now since the AP scandal on tapping the reporters phones. They didn’t like that at all and judging from the grilling they are doing now to Holder, they may just find that investigative reporting is fun and let’s see what else we can dig up. It will be a rich environment to dig in.
FFA, In keeping with their recent issues on scandals, this “Transparent” government promoted Susan Rice, the serial liar of Benghazi as National Security Advisor, then they just nominated the wife of Cass Sunstein, the infamous Czar hiding in the WH basement as UN Ambassador. She has made the statement in the past comparing America to the Nazi’s of WW11. What a great Ambassador she is sure to make. Wow, you couldn’t possibly make a movie about this since it is crazier than fiction.
FFA –
I know they have no shot, but I’ll be watching The Bulls tonight. I’m sure Miami will close them out, but what a series out of Chicago against Brooklyn. We’ll get Rose back next year and should have a contender again. Tough to be taken seriously as a competitor when you’re missing Rose, Heinrich, and Deng. It’s good to see some of the bench guys getting good minutes and experience, though. Jimmy Butler has become a pretty darn good player. On the starting lineup, Noah is showing some offensive improvement as well. I’m looking forward to seeing a healthy roster next season. It would be nice if we could find a decent free agent to sign. We’re still missing a piece. Boozer isn’t the answer. He’s all right, just not the player that puts Chicago over the top.
Goose Island has some pretty good Belgians out right now. That Pere Jaques is a terrific beer. Sofie will taste really good on a hot day, too.
Go Blackhawks!
D Rose is a whinning cry baby. Pro Foot Ball Playes have come back from worse quicker. Now, Noah & Robinson – got spme scrappers there. Getting the job done no matter what.
Rose? Put a skirt on him and trade him to the WNBA.
FFA, perhaps there should be a clause in Rose’s contract taking away some of that $30 million he received for sitting through his “injury”. I have seen pro football players play with a cast on their arm after breaking it. Quarterbacks play with broken ribs and wear a flack jacket.
Charles Barkley has a quote – “If Jordan didn’t do it, it can’t be done.” Jordan never had to bounce back from a torn ACL and lead his team to a Championship. And, his mere broken ankle took away most of his sophmore season. Not to mention, short of a 63 point performance, he didn’t do much in the post season, either. So, Sir Charles believes Rose made the right choice. Time will tell, of course. But, I’m okay with Rose taking his time. The Bulls weren’t going to win it this year anyhow. I’d like to see you or Agent tear your ACL and then try to play a single minute in the NBA after rehabbing. Yes, NFL players have come back more quickly. But, they play a max of 16 games in the regular season, don’t have to play every play, and get rest in between offensive/defensive sets they do play. Football to basketball is apples to oranges, guys. I think that may well be the very place where the cliche originated. Certainly something along the lines of, “not even the same ballpark.” C’mon now! I will type this now and you’ll remember it later, you are going to eat those words about Derek Rose. Eventually they’ll be saying, “you mess with The Bulls, you get the thorns.”
Yes, Nate Robinson and Joakim Noah are workhorses and I love those guys! It’s an all-to-famous quote in Chicago, but, “wait ’til next year.”
Team and his own physician cleared him to play long time ago. He chose to sit himself.
Nephew – union electrician (commercial) tore his ACL. 8 weeks back climbing ladders.
He milked this one – no doubt about it.
Also, next year winning something will enable people to forget about it.
And, remember Jordan play the game of his life while fighting the flu? Soon as the wistle blew he would colapse on the floor. Pippen would pick him up. Game on – ready to roll.
Planet, I know you prefer basketball more than football. You seem to denigrate football players by saying they only play 16 games in a season. Tell me, do basketball players get their bell rung on almost every play. Do running backs who go through the line and run into 260 lb linebackers have it easy. They play with all kinds of injuries that sideline players in other sports. It takes them all week to get over the normal bumps and bruises from the prior week. Many wear knee braces to help protect prior injuries. You are right about one thing, there is no comparison between football and basketball. Football is far more brutal on the human body from head to toe.
Planet Says “I’d like to see you or Agent tear your ACL and then try to play a single minute in the NBA after rehabbing”
I would certianly do it for $30M. I’ld do it for League Minn. Especially after team and personal docs cleared me.
Hell, I came back before Doc cleared me from a torn Meniscus and hit my only ever stand up tripple on the S Ball field. My professional Park District Career spanned 25 years. Was kind of commical. Walk up to bat with a limp. Watch the Out Field pull in. Hit it over their heads and run the bases with out a limp. Suckered them but good.
IRS targeting groups who said they don’t like to pay taxes, who are filed as 501 Cs but undoubtedly have a political slant doesn’t quite seem like a “scandal” to me. Is it right to target specific groups? NO! And, I’m just as upset at this as I was when IRS was targeting Greenpeace, Life The Universe Church, and the NAACP under President Bush. So, I for one, am being consistent on that one. Benghazi is a political circus, not a scandal. What about the 60 who died in embassies around the world when, again, President Bush was in office? Again, consistency here, please. Now, the AP is a curious situation and I am very interested in this. That could prove to be an actual scandal, although I highly doubt it goes all the way to President Obama. He’s just simply not that naive. First Amendment rights on the line there so let’s watch that one develop. As far as the lame duck comment goes, Agent, Congress has been refusing to act for over 4 years now. We the people need some action. Changing the legal BAC to .05 is not the type of legislation we need, either.
Planet, it is interesting to note that Media Matters, MoveOn.org have the same status as Conservative groups and their applications sailed right through without comment or trouble. Conservative groups have never said they don’t want to pay taxes, they just want limited government and accountability of the government and to stop the waste, fraud rampant in the government. Why did they put the Billy Graham organization through the cauldron when all they have ever done is good for the country and the world. Wake up Planet. You are also wrong about Benghazi and Americans died with no help even attempted even though the plane was on the tarmac in Tripoli, less than an hour away and then your bad actors tried to blame a stupid video on it and changed their talking points 12 times. It is nauseating and you should be ashamed to support these people. If you think there are not a lot of bad people in charge of our government, you are naive and I feel sorry for you. By the way Planet, the House has been acting for the past 4 years only to be stymied by your favorite guy Dirty Harry who won’t even allow legislation to be voted on. Who is not acting here? They are bad news and you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Benghazi is a serious scandal.
We knew from day one it was an Al Quieda attack. They reported that it was an attack in response to a video.
The difference may seem small to you, but to the public the difference between:
It’s 9/11 2012, we just got attacked by Al Quieda Again (to a president who is declaring he has finally made us safe where Bush failed, and said the war with Al Quieda is over more or less)
and
Some guys just bombed us because of a video.
Is huge. They did alter the evidence, they did try as hard as possible to state that something/someone else was responsbile for the attack. We had people testify who knew nothing about a video who were second in command. If someone is going to say a video did it, and they disregard the number 2, it’s a scandal.
Benghazi was all about public opinion and image.
And while you say you are balanced, then you would see that Iraq was the wild goose chase, which Bush gave speeches on all the time stating what we were doing, while Obama’s benghazi is not, and Obama has not given speeches all the time. His only official commentary afterward didn’t even come from him. It came from a rep who basically said “everybody knows the republicans are out to get us” in regards to testimoney from PEOPLE. Yes. The republicans are controlling those people!
As opposed to a huge banner on an aircraft carrier embazoned “Mission Accomplished???” And following up a few years later to state we’re not concerned with finding bin Laden anymore?
Bob, you crack me up. You try to say you are not partisan, but you defend Bush with every breath you have.
Benghazi is trivial compared to finding NO WMD’s IN ALL OF IRAQ.
And Agent, how is going after Saddam Hussein Bush’s way of going after Al Qaeda? If that was his mission, he should have invaded Saudi Arabia. That’s where most of those terrorists came from.
So Libby,
I noticed that again after over a week and this article has died out in views,
Your and planet’s comments are liked far past the norm, plus 50 since the sites died out.
Where as mine are now minus 50.
Is it you, planet, or Celitica who tries to hide my arguments?
I find it more than a little funny that when you cannot win an argument with what actually happened, one of you tries so hard to hide my comments.
Your control issues, dishonesty, and refusal to talk about facts shows what type of person you are, but also, reflects the current democratic party. Just keep saying it until it’s true, and stomp out those bad guys by any means necessary eh?
Side comment: I have never dislike clicked any posts on this site. Not once.
You want an honest debate on any issue with Bush w you pick the topic. I’m tired of your vitriol.
Pick the 5 top topics you think make him a horrible president.
You will lose this debate forewarning.
I will pick my five favorite things about him. You will have to say how they were bad. I will have to point out directly how your 5 items are bull and show you the acts relevant (such as the retirement accounts Bush W created, medicare expanded for prescriptions, such as how the CRA issues caused the collapse, and you by counter, how medicare being expanded was bad, how those retirement accounts would have been bad, and show exactly which regulations were taken away which lead to the collapse. Naming the regulations will not be enough, you will have to tie it together in order to demonstrate how, in your own words)
Do we really have to treat this like a 10th grade thesis paper? I feel like a teacher talking to a kid.
If you lose, you will shut, your pretentious mouth about Bush w. If you have nothing terrible, you will accept that you were partisan.
Ready to lose?
Here’s hint: I’ve already gone over all of this and you’ve already lost the debate several times. So I already know your replies, and know your beliefs, and know they are not only wrong, they are partisan whereas mine are strictly facts, facts cannot be partisan.
READY?? GO.
List the 5.
Libby:
My other comment didn’t post:
WMD’s were not the reason we went to Iraq.
Let me say that Again, because you liberals are trying to rewrite history:
WMD’s were not the reason we went to Iraq.
The word WMD was not even said when Bush w made the speech about going to war with Iraq. It was quoted toward the beginning, it was not even the main point toward when the war began. The main point toward when the war began was that Saddam was not abiding by any un sanctions. He was like a jock parading around stating the U.S. wouldn’t do anything. We lost respect while that guy did his peacock dance. Bush W quoted 16 UN Sanctions, he said Iraqis would be liberated, no WMD. Most of the time the axis of evil was talked about. Saddam did help Al Quieda just after the attack. It’s not an opinion.
While we did try to inspect for WMDS that is not what lead to the war.
We have talked about this, you were wrong, you refused to admit it.
Now Clinton on the other hand: His you will not defy the will of the world speech, where he sad Saddam had used weapons of mass destruction and would do so again, that was what he said before he bombed Iraq. So Clinton actually DID use the WMD argument to attack Iraq. So we aren’t having this debate any longer. You’re wrong, admit it.
Do you deny that Clinton bombed Iraq? Do you deny that he had the will of the world speech in which he said Saddam had used wmds and would again? Hold your precious partisan president to the same standard as Bush, you freaking 2 year old. Your emotions are getting in the way of your analytical abilities.
Bob – I have not liked or disliked one post on this article, or any other, in the past 6 months. So, I will expect an apology for your over-the-top “vitriol” towards me in that respect. If people don’t like your comments, it is not my doing. Maybe you should re-read some of them to find out the reason.
I will not debate with you about Bush, because you will not accept anything I say and will twist my words as you have always done in the past.
I’m not here to pick a fight with you about Bush or anything else. Only to say you call yourself non-partisan, while your partisanship shows through in almost every post you make.
Saddam not abiding by any UN sanctions had everything to do with WMD’s. That’s what the sanctions were all about. And your statement “We lost respect while that guy did his peacock dance” sounds just like something Bush W would have said and it is NOT a reason to invade a country. Sorry, that argument does not fly and lays a big peacock egg.
Libby:
The 16 UN sacntions were not limited to WMDS.
16 sanctions for one program?
BUZZZ wrong. Now I’m going to yet again show you don’t know what you’re talking about, as I had to ask this same question when I asked “where was osama bin laden found”:
What were the Iraq U.N. Sanctions? GO.
I’ve had it with YOU twisting things and trying to appear that you know what you’re talking about. You did not even know until I informed you where Bin Laden was found. You guessed, incorrectly.
I talk over your comments because your points are moot. You have not had one single point against bush other than non verifiable facts. While I bring up DIRECT links of Obama suing citibank, you then state oh he was just 1 of 4 attorneys. It is not me being partisan holding our people accountable. You have refused to state Obama’s failures. I mentioned Bush W.’s child tax credit being something that allowed people to stay on government pay roll of a form. That isn’t partisan.
I mentioned vitriol in reply to you stating I stuck on my guns for bush. You stick in your “vitriol” guns against Bush. And yes, you are guilty of a form of “hate crimes” against bush w. When you speak without facts about Bush w, that is a form of hate as you aren’t researching your comments. Believing he fabricated 9/11 is a flat out lie, a bigoted one at that. I point out Benghazi mainly because Obama did lie. I noticed you didn’t direct my comment on Benghazi other than to state it was evidence i was partisan. Whether or not I am does not negate that they lied.
I will not give an apology for stating you speak vitriol about George W.
I am getting fed up with you in this post again. You may find my comments demeaning, but the way you speak of bush is far beyond it. FAR beyond demeaning. FAR FAR FAR beyond it. Let me say that again FAR beyond.
He’s you know just some guy who started a war with another nation what, for the hell of it and because he’s a bad guy according to you.
He passed tax cuts to stop a recession from hitting after the tech bubble, which you cannot deny burst under Bush’s watch, and in response to 9/11 destroying the world trade center, which you cannot deny affected trade (economy) and we DID NOT go into recession, and the deficits were lower than Obama’s. These are the facts. Yet you say, in partisan form “a war financed by two tax cuts”.
WRONG. That is partisan, that is rewriting history, and repurposing what those tax cuts were for and what they for a FACT did. They halted a recession.
We barely got by the dot com boom kicking our butt. Tech firms are still on the low.
So, instead though, in partisan form you blame Bush for the recession, you blame the bush tax cuts for our deficit (a lie) you state that bush w financed the wars with tax cuts (a gross over exaggeration for effect, not for the purpose of facts) and go no some hate spree.
It is NOT appropriate. I will reply as always stating that it is wrong.
Really, Bob. There you go putting words in my mouth again. Point out where I have ever said: “you blame Bush for the recession, you blame the bush tax cuts for our deficit (a lie) you state that bush w financed the wars with tax cuts.” As far as a hate crime against Dubya, I’ll agree with that. Hate is a strong word, but it about sums up how I feel about that moron. We will never agree about him. He was the worst president in recent history and should have been tried for treason. Enough for you? Cuz I got much, much, much more hate I can spew towards him. Let me repeat, MUCH more hate.
As far as Obama goes, I’m ready for him to be gone. He’s not been effective for the past year or more and Congress continues to be gridlocked. Hilary in 2016!
Here’s a real scandal – CIA director hand delivers evidence of potential terrorist attack on major metropolitan area, most likely by aircraft, to President Bush in Crawford, TX. President Bush then goes on longest Presidential vacation in history. Then, since that wasn’t long enough, head’s to his brother’s state in FL. Never takes any action on the evidence provided. 9/11 ensues.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0
In the words of the Speaker of The Oompah Loompahs pictured above – “who’s going to jail?”
No use Captain. I’m sure Agent will say the NY Times is a left-wing, commie rag that pushes the progressive agenda and nothing else. It will have to come from Fox News for it to be credible.
Actually Libby, the NY Times has a proven record of left wing positions and that is not just Fox News saying it. Many other sources say the same thing. I think it is interesting that even they are questioning what is going on in DC along with AP and others since their phone records were tapped. This administration has painted itself into a corner with these three scandals and just firing an IRS chief one month before he was due to leave will not be adequate. Holder should have been gone after the Fast & Furious debacle where he hid his incriminating papers at the White House under executive privilege. They were probably used for firewood on cold days to cover the tracks. Now, he doesn’t seem to know anything about what was going on with his minions below him. He never seems to know anything and just uses the ruse that it is under investigation and hopes it goes away.
Oh, Agent. According to you, the Dems are all conniving and scheming while the Reps are sitting in their pews with their halos on straight. I’d make sure my own yard was cleaned up before pointing fingers at others. Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Libby:
Here’s something to know, when one party dominates the other, especially in the 18-24 age range, and has done so since FDR that party IS the more corrupt of the two.
They blamed the republicans for every single recession since FDR. They blamed them for racism. They blamed them for women not having rights. They blame them for not progressing, and they make it public.
At worst, we call you socialists. At best, you call us corporate supporters (while your party was in bed with Comcast in Washington, shut down a shipping company in Oregon, and as soon as one of you got control in Ohio they tried to shut out UPS from being competitive with Fed ex by passing flight regulations, THIS HAPPENED get over it, it was democrats) who want the elderly to die, and put the women back in the kitchen.
Sound about right?
We don’t believe republicans have halos over their heads.
There is no way in heck that democrats are better though. And that’s the point.
I have not heard one, not even one, criticism from you about Obama. Planet actaully has. I’ll give him credit for that.
I’ve seen Agent plenty of times say specific areas he disagreed with Bush W on.
So the one guilty of what you said, is you.
How does a party dominating in the 18-24 age range make them corrupt??? Maybe that party just speaks more to the youth and has more to offer because it is open minded and more tolerant. Something young people are before they become all jaded and turn into fat, wealthy, republicans who care only for the economy and how much money is in their pockets and nothing about society or trying to make the country (world) a better place for EVERYONE – not just themselves.
All you and Agent talk about is the economy and how much money is coming out of your pockets. You judge an administration by how well you are doing financially and on NOTHING else.
And BTW, you still owe me an apology for calling me dishonest in trying to manipulate and hide your comments. I did no such thing. People just don’t like you.
Bob, I see you are having an interesting discussion with Libby again. She should invest in Michelle Malkin’s book named Culture of Corruption. Maybe she could learn something about her exalted leaders. I was surprised to see her say she was ready for Obama to be gone, but just said he has not been an effective leader for the past few years. Hello! Maybe she should tune into the real news instead of reading the Huffington Post. In addition to all the aggregious incidents leading to the current crop of scandals, Obama just appointed the woman at the heart of the IRS scandal to head the enforcement division of IRS for Obamacare. What could possibly go wrong with that appointment? This woman should be prosecuted and put in jail for her actions, not promoted to enforce this terrible law on the citizens.
They’re all corrupt, Agent. Reps don’t have the best reputation for honesty and integrity. Watergate? Karl Rove? WMD’s? Ring a bell? It’s time to climb off your high horse and open your eyes and get your nose out of Bob’s butt.
I have a question and it is not an attempt to sway anyone one way or the other. How does this affect companies that hire contracted employees from a staffing agency?
I believe those employees are employees of the staffing agent and they are responsible for providing benefits.
Libby, It is amazing that you continue to defend your Progressive Socialist leaders as they continue to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. The Holder & Miller hearings were very revealing as to the scope of the corruption. I have never heard so many I don’t know, I don’t recall, I can’t answer that, I don’t know who ordered that, it is under investigation non answers in all the years I have been paying attention. If you were paying attention, you may have a few questions too. Perhaps it is all ok with you what is going on. If so, your judgment of right & wrong is called into question.
I dont know a lot about OBamacare except for the excessive taxxes and premiums we now pay, but I think Libby is correct. Who ever wtites their check will be the responsible party for the Insurance.
We are headed to a temp / part time work force. People will have to hold 2 or 3 part time jobs to make ends meet.
I know I’ll never hire full time again.
Finally through my wifes thick skull about living in this good awefull state I am in. We will be looking out of state in the next few weeks.
Good luck with that FFA!
Thanks, I hope things play out. I am just so fed up with what goes on in this state.
I have a nursing home the state owes over $300K. With out that getting paid quickly, all the coverage will lapse. About $10K annual commissions on that account. Ive lost most of my state funded business last year and now it looks like year #2 of Workers Comp reform is going to drain the rest of it.
I spite of it all, business is up this year ahead of where I was two years ago.
And, any time I find luck, its always bad!
Keep your chin up, FFA! Things will get better. I just feel it!
FFA, you have a right to be fed up with Illinois. I don’t know how you have stood it this long. They give a new meaning to the term “armpit of America”. I know there are a lot of good people in the state, but the bad seem to keep getting these lousy politicians elected so it never changes for the better. They are about as unfriendly to business as it gets. I wonder who they will end up taxing if good businesses like yours continue to leave in droves. California has the same problem. When will they ever learn?
Agent – There is nothing wrong with my judgment. I just don’t care anymore. These things seem trivial when there is so much going on in the world. Perhaps if we focused on the matters at hand instead of trying to one up each other, things could get better. Just sayin.
FFA – you should check out Des Moines, seriously. One of the top 3 insurance cities in the US. We are only 5 hours away from Chi-town in case you want to visit for a ball game or watch the puck drop, and you can watch the Cub up-and-comers with our AAA Iowa Cubs. We are actually doing really well here. Forbes can attest. I don’t think we really even saw the recession here. The restaurants remained full and housing didn’t take near the hit it did elsewhere. Our schools are excellent, crime is low, and our downtown is constantly being improved, upgraded, and renovated. Not to mention, no tolls and our roads are better maintained. Should you check us out, make sure to look into Zombie Burger, High Life Lounge, and El Bait Shop. Can’t go wrong with any of them. Good luck in your search, FFA. Go Blackhawks!
What are the State Income taxes – Personal & Corporate? WI offers lower property taxes, no sales tax on food and gas about thirty cents cheaper then the Chi Suburbs.
Of course, everywhere is going to be lower then IL, just what is the lowest? I dont want to be any more the three hours away from my lake. North Eastern Iowa is on my radar.
I also have my Indiana Business to consider as well as my elderly parents I am trying to manage through end of life.
All in the mean time, business has popped. My producer alone has popped for $250K in the 1st quarter and looking like that again for 2nd q. So. bascially, I get to the IL border, take one more step and thats where I will be looking for housing (assuming my wife dont change her mind).
In you best guess – 1200 sq feet with 2 car attached garage – whats the pricing range on housing – ball park of course.
Wasnt aware the Cubs had any up and commers. Wrigley sports a bunch of should be down and outters. I am not far from their class A team. Not looking like your going to see any of them guys this year unless they are changing your oil or standing at the front door of wal mart.
These days, minor league games thrill me more then the pros do. Kids playing for a slim shot and the love of the game. Love the Little LEague World Series… Kids yet to be corrupted by the love of money.
My building sold this week out of foreclosure so a move is on the horizon.
FFA:
Go to http://www.realtor.com and you can search the MLS in any area you want. I once bought a house this way!
Thanks. I completly forgot about that site.
North Eastern Iowa – twice the house as I have now. 2 Acres of land vs 50 x 150 in my town. Same price as what I could get out of my house here in IL.
Comes with an outbuilding – what could be my office. Talked to my wife about it last night and she shut it down.
One week ago today, she says lets get out of IL.
Bobs not the only one who dont understand women.
FFA, Here is another gem for you about Obamacare and our wonderful Kathleen Sebelius, head of Health & Human Services. She made the decision that a sick 12 year old girl couldn’t get on the lung donor list. Is this an example of the feared Death Panels of this law only this time, the director made the decision. The parents did not ask for preferential treatment, they just wanted her daughter on the list in hopes of a match that would save the little girl’s life. Now, the girl will probably die soon. I wonder what would have happened if Sebelius was in the same situation as a parent.
Wow FFA, I wonder how bad it has to get before your wife goes along with moving out to greener pastures. It looks like you have your hands full. Bob, myself, Dave and Sargent all have trouble understanding Libby and her rants, but we generally wear her down because her old Socialism talking points don’t go very far since the theory has been an abysmal failure everytime it was tried in history.
I am confused. Maybe I’ll leave her in WI on Monday. Let her get acclimated.
Meanwhile, her in IL, gas $4.19 on the way to work yesterday. On the way home, $4.25.
Actually, Agent, it looks like Bob is the one worn down here. I’m ready, willing, and able. And I don’t rant….
Trust me Libby, you will never get the best of Bob on these blogs. He does his research, refutes all your arguments and usually the best you have is blaming Bush for the country’s problems. What do you think about Lois Lerner invoking her 5th Amendment rights in front of Congress in not answering questions about her role in the IRS scandal? Do you blame Bush for that as well? The scandals are piling up and the media is now reporting on it for the first time in over 4 years. They say sunlight is the best disinfectant. We shall see.
Trust me, Agent, half the time Bob’s arguments are so convoluted they are nonsensical. He throws in unrelated topics that have nothing to do with the debate just to try to redirect the discussion. He makes assumptions that are ludicrous, and when challenged creates some type of mousetrap-like contraption to try to bring it back in a way that makes sense – but rarely does. Just because he says in 1,000 words what most people can in 100 and really smart people in 50, does not mean he’s winning any arguments. Only people like you fall for the rollercoaster, twisty turny way he presents “facts.” Me, I stick to the basics. My beliefs and enough “facts” to substantiate them. You may argue with my sources, but I question yours as well.
Case in point:
“Here’s something to know, when one party dominates the other, especially in the 18-24 age range, and has done so since FDR that party IS the more corrupt of the two.” – Where are the “facts” for this comment?
“Yet you say, in partisan form “a war financed by two tax cuts”. – I said no such thing. Just another way to redirect the discussion.
“WMD’s were not the reason we went to Iraq.” – I know that and never said they were. I said they were used as an excuse to invade Iraq in order to settle daddy’s score with Saddam Hussein. The non-expressed goal of the sanctions was the removal of Saddam Hussein. The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 stated that U.S. policy was to “replace that regime.” And since there were no WMD’s, I rest my case on that one.
Now argue away with that, Bush-lovers.
Libby, I take pleasure in arguing with you on your rant post. If you were a student of history, you might have read that Saddam used Chemical weapons on Iran in their big shooting war many years ago and that kept Iran from overrunning them. Later, the Kurds in the north were gassed and thousands killed. By the way, when the UN failed to act on 17 resolutions for a year or so, it gave Saddam the needed time to squirrel away his WMD’s to Syria. You need evidence? Assad has said he has Chemical weapons and will use them if the west were to invade him. There is strong evidence he has already used them on his own people recently. Argue that Libby the Obama lover.
So Assad got the weapons from Saddam? In a post-invasion interview, Saddam admitted that he had been bluffing about his WMD. Also, why, with U.S. forces massing on his border, would he give up the one thing he had to raise the cost of invading to the Americans? He’d been threatening for years. And why, oh why, would Saddam give his weapons to Iran’s best friend in the region? After all, he said he had them to stave off an attack by Iran. Sorry, Agent. This myth has been de-bunked long ago. But nice try.
Libby, do you really believe anything Saddam had to say about his WMD’s? He denied UN inspections for a couple of years. If he had nothing to hide, why not let them in to see for themselves? I guess that gas he used on his own people (Kurds)didn’t really happen, right? How about in his war with Iran? No story here, old news.
She finally got her objection on the table to moving. She dont want to move by the lake because everything is 20 min away from everything. I asked about Beloit, Kenosha and or Racine. She said that would be good.
Hopefully you will get everything worked out FFA. I am wishing the best for you.
Libby…You are so full of misinformation …are you a liberalista democrat?
1. WMD’s WERE the reason we invaded. Chaney falsified a CIA report to Bush on yellow cake. All documented. This was the basis for which Bush invaded. Chaney may have and probably did have other motives, but Bush made the decision on that report, with the stated goal to remove Saddam.
2. Chemical WMD’s are well documented in Iraq. Saddam’s actions using these on his people and Iran are fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
3. Nuclear WMD’s are what Saddam was alleging and never had. He knew this was over the line and would get a hard response from the USA and UN.
4. The chemical WMD’s disappeared prior to our invasion..did he destroy or move them? Evidence from satellite intel and other sources point to them being moved to Syria.
Stick to the facts Libby and leave the propaganda at home…
Dear Architect: I am not sure what a liberalista democrat is for sure, but yes – I am a Democrat and very liberal. Oh! And proud of it! You may think you have “the facts” but they are pesky little things dependant on the source(s) you get them from. I do not doubt that the devil incarnate (aka Cheney) falsified a memo to the dufus, Dubya. Sorry Bud, but that only strengthens my argument against him being the worst president ever to have presided in office. As far as “WMD’s,” yes Saddam used chemical weapons against his own people, but that is hardly a reason for the “shock and awe” we brought onto his country and his people. There was a bigger motive at work there whether you want to believe it or not. So go back to your conservanista republican la-la land from which you came and leave the “facts” to the grown-ups.
Hey Architect, You must have been a very infrequent visitor to this site if you don’t know Libby and her posts. She admits to drinking the Kool Aid of the left and rocking on her front porch watching the country go down the tubes. She still thinks she is right on her talking points no matter how many times we point out the error of her ways.
Agent – And we all know your talking points no matter what the topic. Obama sucks. Republicans know everything. Does that sum it up? Oh! And Democrats are stupid. Most are lazy, leeches that take, take, take and give nothing to society. How am I doing?
I agree with you partly Libby. I have never said Republicans know everything. I have some real issues with the RINO element of the party since they have signed onto so much liberal legislation. McCain and Graham are two of the worst examples and should be sent packing at the first opportunity. All Democrats are not stupid and lazy. Dixiecrats voted for Reagan because they are more conservative. The problem Democrats have is that their party was taken over by Progressives that are so far left that they are ruining the country. The new entitlement society that is being pushed will bankrupt this country unless it is turned around. I think it should be enlightening to you that many unions who pushed Obamacare want the law repealed because the benefits cannot be afforded and union workers will be forced onto the exchanges to fend for themselves. Unions will then become obsolete. Their leaders now want Sebelius to subsidize their premiums. Can you imagine subsidizing 20 million workers? How much would that cost on a bill already costing three times what they promised when passed. What a train wreck.
I believe your exact phrase was “leave the decision making to the adults in the room.” Implying Democrats are not mentally developed enough to make decisions. But that makes no never mind.
I voted for Reagan, too, Agent. And I continue to tell you I am more fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. I agree with your assessment of an entitlement society – to a certain extent. I see this problem as much deeper than just political. I see:
1. Parents that constantly cow-tow to their kids, accepting bad behavior with no consequences, teachers afraid of their students, and everyone on the team gets a trophy. There’s something wrong with the way parents are raising their kids.
2. Along with that, we have generations of welfare families that no nothing other than the life they were raised in. That’s a problem that needs to be corrected.
3. In addition, there is a lack of quality jobs in America as many companies have moved operations overseas to improve profit and the economy going to hell in a hand basket.
All these things contribute to this so-called entitlement society, but only a fraction are those you like to refer to as the majority (leeches, sucking the American teet dry.)
But that’s the liberal in me.
Well Libby, that was quite a treatise. To quote you on an earlier post, you said you just didn’t care anymore. We Conservatives do care about what happens to this country since it doesn’t resemble anything we are familiar with. I’m glad you voted for my favorite President Reagan. It is too bad there are no Reagan’s around now to straighten out this mess and get rid of all the radicals in the current government.
I do agree with you that kids are out of control and parents do not take any responsibility for their behavior. They are unsupervised, many are cell phone addicts who can’t have a conversation with an adult, bad teachers in the union infested schools teaching nothing of value. In addtion, the welfare system has undergone big expansion in recent years which makes people more dependent instead of trying programs that will get them into jobs where they can be productive citizens. I also agree that there is a serious lack of quality jobs in this country. Small business has suffered tremendously under the weight of bureaucracy, taxation and regulation from government. Obamacare is just the most recent burden that has been placed on business and no wonder business won’t hire or expand with that specter on the horizon. In Texas, we provide incentives for business to move here with tax abatements to hire employees. It seems to be working because this state has created more jobs than all the blue states combined. Jeffrey Immelt, the infamous CEO of GE who is supposedly the job Czar for the President sees no problem in not paying taxes on GE or moving whole divisions of GE to China. Do you see anything wrong with that?