Republicans See ‘Obamacare’ Issues as Key to 2014

May 30, 2013

  • May 30, 2013 at 1:33 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    If Republicans were writing a movie script for next year’s congressional elections, the working title might be “2014: Apocalypse of Obamacare.”

    Q: Genre?
    A: Comedy – A laugh riot!

    • May 31, 2013 at 4:25 pm
      Patti Cake in the East says:
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      You probably think Bill Maher is funny.

      • May 31, 2013 at 4:33 pm
        Libby says:
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        He’s hilarious! You’re a fan, too?

  • May 30, 2013 at 2:17 pm
    Libby says:
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    I love me a good comedy!!

    • May 31, 2013 at 4:26 pm
      Patti Cake in the East says:
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      Well, Libby…if you like a good comedy, you should watch the Chris Matthews Show on MSNBC..HYSTERICAL!!!!

      • May 31, 2013 at 4:33 pm
        Libby says:
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        I know. He goes quite rabid at times. It’s fun to watch.

      • June 5, 2013 at 11:45 am
        Agent says:
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        From the clips I have seen of Matthews recently, the thrill is not going up his leg about Obama these days.

  • May 30, 2013 at 2:28 pm
    Dave says:
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    The devil is in the details. There is a concept known as unintended consequences that is foreign to those on the left. This Obamacare will be a good working excersise in that concept as implementation of Obamacare even in these very early stages appears to become more challenging day by day. And as somethng like 54% of all Americans are still against it despite a massive campaign to try to push it, one has to wonder if implementation will ever get easier based on it’s complexity and lack of popular support. And with the IRS being the main enforcement agency behind Obamacare and the scandals they are going through right now, it looks to be a really rough road ahead.

    • May 30, 2013 at 2:57 pm
      Agent says:
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      Well, this article should be good for at least 150 comments in the next few weeks. Dave, with new revelations coming out each week, unions jumping up and down wanting it repealed and then demanding that Sebelius subsidize their members premiums, Max Baucus – Democrat saying it is an oncoming trainwreck, the leftists are still singing a happy tune that it is the best thing since sliced bread. Wait until Americans see their Healthcare premiums in January. The actuaries predict rate increases of 32% and it is likely to be higher. Trillions to be spent covering the PreX’s and Failure to Launch kids until age 26. Can this disaster waiting to happen be any worse for the country?

      • May 30, 2013 at 3:13 pm
        Ron says:
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        If this turns out to be the disatser that you are predicting, then the Republicans will no problem strengthening their majority in the House and gaining a filibuster-proof super majority in the Senate. I will interested to see if they can finally do some multi-tasking and repeal the PPACA while coming up with a replacement at the same time. They couldn’t be bothered to address health care reform and fight terrorists, without actually engaging in the fighting themselves, the last time they had control of everything.

      • May 30, 2013 at 3:35 pm
        Libby says:
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        Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., said uninsured people in her state will have over 200 coverage options to choose from. “We have been hearing the fear, but in states like mine, people are seeing the reality,” she said.

        In just about five months, people without access to coverage through their jobs can start shopping for subsidized private insurance in new state markets. The actual benefits begin Jan. 1. But because of continuing opposition to the law from many Republican governors and state legislators, the federal government will be running the insurance markets in more than half the states.

        In a dozen or so states that have started releasing details of their new insurance markets, there’s robust insurer interest in participating, according to the market research firm Avalere Health. That’s a good signal for competition.

        I think Republicans are going to look pretty foolish and self-serving if they don’t get on the bandwagon – and quick. This plan is going to work. Albeit, not without issues and tweaking, but it’s going to work. And all the Reps in office that tried to roadblock it, thwart it, and do everything in their power to be a thorn in it’s side are going to get kicked to curb, and deservedly so.

        It will be a sweet day for me…

        • May 30, 2013 at 3:58 pm
          D says:
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          They said the same thing about Medicare before it was enacted. Ronald Reagan even “performed” in a commercial stating Medicare would bring on a “socialist dictatorship”.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bejdhs3jGyw

          Now, republicans like Paul Ryan beat up on Obamacare saying the ACA will spell the end of Medicare. No republican would ever come out in favor of getting rid of Medicare now. True, some parts of Medicare need to be fixed but that’s a whole other issue. The fact is that republicans are love scare tactics going back to the new deal, to social security, to medicare, now to Obamacare. The ACA has not fully been enacted. Let’s wait and see if the ACA (with many republican ideas like health exchanges) is actually a failure before resorting to fear tactics which are such a staple of the republican party.

          • May 30, 2013 at 4:31 pm
            Agent says:
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            D, It is not scare tactics to review history to see what actually happened. Per FDR, Social Security had it’s own trust fund which was supposed to never be touched by the politicians for any other use. The wonderful Democrat by the name of LBJ moved the Social Security Trust Fund into the General Fund to pay for his “War on Poverty” and other social programs. Republicans had nothing to do with that by the way. Then, your wonderful Clinton/Gore administration started taxation of Social Security benefits, again not a Republican plan. Now, Social Security/Medicare is near bankruptcy due to all the spending for social programs and we still have a huge number of people in poverty. Who had done more harm to this country, Democrats or Republicans? Now, we face the specter of a near $4 Trillion healthcare package and rising premiums for all Americans and you accuse the Republicans of using scare tactics. I hope you like your premiums come January that will subsidize all those PreX people out there so they can get free healthcare.

          • May 30, 2013 at 4:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent – All the articles coming out recently are stating the opposite about premiums. They are actually alot lower than the “pundits” had predicted. I hope to hell you are wrong about this plan because I am optimistic it is the start of an answer to alot of people’s prayers.

            And Republicans are known for their scare tactics. It’s a staple of your party. Karl Rove was the master.

          • May 31, 2013 at 11:19 am
            wvagt says:
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            ALL of the recent articles aren’t predicting lower premiums. Forbes Magazine had an article yesterday that predicts premiums in California will increase 64-146% as a result of Obamacare. This is completely opposite to what the health care “advocates” in that state are saying.

      • June 10, 2013 at 11:36 am
        Agent says:
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        Well, I will be the first to admit I misjudged the number of comments on this article since it is almost double what I thought it would be. It was interesting that on Saturday with my golf group, one of my guys is a High School Principal. He said the school district just got their renewal rates on their Group Health. The family coverage will average $1,800 per month or $21,600 per year. This is a real shock to them on teachers salaries. I told him to call up the Obama Administration and personally thank them for the “Affordable Care Act”. How is that for a dose of reality?

        • June 10, 2013 at 12:10 pm
          Libby says:
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          All things are relevant, Agent. It’s going up to $1,800 from what? What percentage is that? Healthcare rates have been escalating for years and years. So to say the increase is due solely to Obamacare is misleading in the least. Get some facts, post them, then we can have an honest discussion.

          • June 10, 2013 at 3:01 pm
            Agent says:
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            I gave you a fact and it went right over your head Libby. The premiums are close to double what last year’s was and that is with a higher deductible. The school district did get some other bids and they were all comparable. You seem to think the Affordable Care Act will make premiums less and the fact is they are escalating at a rapid pace. I see the rate shocks coming in on my customers as well. This is all a direct result of what is coming down. Keep on singing that happy tune with Planet and we will see what we see in the coming months.

          • June 10, 2013 at 4:39 pm
            Libby says:
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            I re-read your post and you never said premiums were doubled. I find your “fact” difficult to believe considering what our office is experiencing with our commercial clients.

  • May 30, 2013 at 2:29 pm
    D says:
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    The law has barely been enacted. Maybe the republicans should wait and see if Obamacare is actually a failure or an apocalypse before basing their 2014 mid-term campaign on such an event. It would be hard to campaign against what has become law so far- failure to deny due to pre-existing condistions and allowing kids to be covered under parent’s policies until age 26. Sure, campaign against that. They will have to make stuff up again like the death panels, etc.

    • May 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm
      FFA says:
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      They are politicians. They know when ever they stick their nose into private business, costs go up.

    • May 31, 2013 at 9:44 am
      Agent says:
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      Libby, I don’t know what articles you are reading about premiums being lower than predictions. Could they be from the Huffington Post or Media Matters? All the signs are there for huge premium increases. Start with 2,500 Waivers granted to business and unions. By the way, some unions are demanding repeal now because they have seen the projected costs to members. Actuaries who crunch the numbers conservatively say it will be at least 32% increase. As an agent, I see the rate increases on my Groups and Individuals. It is not a pretty sight and will only get worse next year. Use your brain for once. How do we add several million sick PreX people to Healthcare and expect affordable premiums? Perhaps 32% on top of what consumers pay currently is an acceptable cost to you, but I don’t think it will be acceptable to the majority of Americans.

      • May 31, 2013 at 3:00 pm
        Libby says:
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        Try the last two on Insurance Journal, Agent.

    • June 11, 2013 at 10:52 am
      Agent says:
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      Libby, Do you write any business in Ohio? Their own Department of Insurance just announced an 88% increase in premiums as of 1-1-14 for Individual Coverage. Doesn’t sound like the exchanges will save any money on cost, does it?

      • June 11, 2013 at 1:35 pm
        Libby says:
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        Agent – why do I have to fact check everything you post? Because you go off half-cocked with information. Continually. What the Dept of Insurance announced was that there could be an 88% increase for SOME based on the rates submitted to date that HAVE NOT YET BEEN APPROVED. “Projected costs from the companies for providing coverage for the required [by Obamacare] essential health benefits ranged from $282.51 to $577.40 for individual health insurance plans.”

        The author further goes on to say “There is an important difference between these analyses and the one I conducted for California last week. Ohio has reported average premiums across the individual market, for everyone; for California, I looked at the lowest-priced individual-market plans for 25- and 40-year-old men, both pre- and post-Obamacare. We’ll need to go through Ohio’s individual rate filings, especially after they’ve been approved by the state, to get a more detailed sense of what is going on.”

        In other words, if a 50 year old Pre-Xer (as you like to call them) can get coverage for $577.40 – I think he will jump for joy. A healthy 30 year old may have to pay $282.51 or face the tax penalty. Hopefully that healthy 30 year old is working and will be eligible for benefits through his employer.

        YES – premium WILL go up for some. They will also go down, or become fiscally affordable, for others. Sorry. That’s how socialism works.

    • June 11, 2013 at 2:47 pm
      Agent says:
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      Libby, Everyone on this site got my message but you. I shouldn’t have to tell you the premiums doubled. A family rate of $1,800 per month shouldn’t be relevant. It is reality. $21,600 per year for Health Insurance with a higher deductible should get even your attention. If you had a substantial amount of your monthly check have a large deduction for insurance, you may feel like these teachers are going to feel when it hits them.

      • June 11, 2013 at 3:35 pm
        Libby says:
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        I hate to tell you this, Agent. But you and I are the only ones hanging on to this story. Nowhere did you say it doubled, yet you took me to task on the fact. Just setting you straight on your “facts” mister. I also don’t believe your story of $1,800 per month for health insurance. Not for teachers and not for anyone else. You make things up to suit yourself. I’ve fact checked you enough to know that. I didn’t want to come right out and call you a fibber, but you gave me no choice.

        • June 13, 2013 at 2:41 pm
          Agent says:
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          I’ll be sure to tell my golf buddy Principal that you called him a liar about his health premium increase.

          • June 14, 2013 at 10:08 am
            Libby says:
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            Go ahead. He’s either stupid or a liar. Take your pick. I’ve shown you the facts. Or do I need to spell it out further for you? You really are deranged, Agent. I put hard facts in front of you and you just say “La, la, la, la, la. I can’t hear you.” All you put in front of me are allegations, suppositions, and exaggerations and I shoot every one of them down. And yet you still keep coming with them.

          • June 14, 2013 at 10:08 am
            Libby says:
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            His health insurance premiums are a matter of public record.

      • June 11, 2013 at 4:06 pm
        Libby says:
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        Here’s what I found about the HUGE increase for Austin teachers:

        “Austin ISD employees are bracing for a big raise in their insurance premiums, and the district is working to educate staff members on their options.

        AISD currently offers three tiers of insurance to its 12,000 employees. Two are free to the employees: PPO 2 is a standard health insurance package, while PPO 3 is a health savings account. However, around a third of all district employees choose PPO 1, which requires an employee contribution, and those staffers will see rates increase. In 2012, an employee on a 12-month contract, such as a teacher or administrator, paid $54 a month. For the 2013-14 school year, those staying on PPO 1 will pay $125 a month – up $71, or a 131% increase in their costs. Employees on nine-month contracts, such as bus drivers and catering staff, will be hit even harder: Because they pay for 12 months of coverage out of nine months of contributions, their payments leap up from $72 to $167. That’s a rise of $95 a month for some of the district’s poorest employees.”

        Here’s something on Westby, TX:

        “When the stars align perfectly good things happen.

        That was case for the Westby Area School District on April 19, when the administration learned that the school district will be able to cover the remaining projected $257,000 deficit for the 2013-14 school year, thanks to a 15-percent health insurance premium reduction from Gundersen Lutheran Healthcare effective July 1, 2013, plus money the district will save by not having to utilize money they had already built into the 2013-14 budget for projected health insurance premium benefit increases.”

        For the TRA (TX teachers state health insurance)Tier 2 premiums (75% of all members are in Tier 2) are going from $1,150 to $1,323 per month BEFORE STATE AND DISTRICT CONTRIBUTIONS. That is the gross cost. Not net to the employee. (BTW, their premiums went up 9.5% from 2010 to 2011.)

        Contrary to popular belief, I do my research. And if something doesn’t make sense to me ($1,800 per month for health insurance for teachers), it’s usually because it’s nonsense.

        • June 11, 2013 at 4:09 pm
          Libby says:
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          Oh, and becaue they only work 9 months out of the year, the annual cost would have been (had it been true) $1,800 x 9 = $16,200. $16,200/12 = $1,350 per month. Quite a difference, don’t you think?

  • May 30, 2013 at 3:22 pm
    Sergeant Major says:
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    Agent-

    Max Baucus, Democrat Senator from Montana and Chairman of the Senate Committee on Finance said it best- ACA is an oncoming train wreck from an implementation and cost standpoint. He should know, he chairs the finance committee

    • May 30, 2013 at 3:47 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sergeant, Max Baucus was also smart enough to not run again. He didn’t want to face the music with his constituents. I think there will be a big turnover in the Senate and we may just see a Tsunami in the House on those who went along with Pelosi who didn’t bother to read the bill before voting on it. 2010 should have taught them something, but apparently didn’t. People are upset with their government whether it is the scandal ridden Executive Branch or with Congress as a whole. They have not served the nation well in recent years and deserve to go.

      • May 30, 2013 at 4:26 pm
        Ron says:
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        With that logic, the Republicans should have learned something from the 2012 election where Democrats gained seats in the House and Senate and kept the White House? PPACA was a huge issue pushed by Republicans and they still lost some power.
        People are upset, but apparently even more fearful of the extremists the Republicans keep parading out there. The only one who apparently has learned anything is Michele Bachmann.

        • May 30, 2013 at 5:48 pm
          Celtica says:
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          And she’s following Sarah Palin on the more lucrative tea party money trail…

      • May 30, 2013 at 4:53 pm
        Libby says:
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        Agent – your party can’t get it’s stuff together enough to nominate a worthy candidate. Unless you want to move more to the middle on social issues, you will continue to fail in elections. The majority of people are not homophobic, uptight, and perpetually prejudiced which is how your side comes across – rightly or wrongly. I’m just stating the perception of Republicans by the masses, so don’t get mad at me and shoot the messenger!

        • May 30, 2013 at 7:18 pm
          Dave says:
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          Well Libby, when you have a President and an administration which lied about what happened in Benghazi and when during the debate the President lies about what he said the day after the attack and when you have a biased reporter Candy Crawley support that lie during the debate and when you have numerous other lies by this administration about the IRS going after conservative groups and have the media bury such stories until after the election, it really doesn’t matter who you run. And even with all those lies and media cover up and support of all those lies he still only got the barest majority of voters. Now that he won’t be running in 2014 and all of this dirt (tons of it) is coming out, I think you may be surprised at the outcome of the next election.

          • May 31, 2013 at 7:45 am
            Ron says:
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            As long as Republicans keep believing that people voted for Obama because of lies being covered up or give aways and not against Romney because he is viewed as being even worse, they will have difficulty winning another election. As an Independent, I wanted Jon Huntsman to be the Republican nominee and he would have beaten Obama by at least 10 points. But he was too moderate for the Republicans and you see the result.
            Please explain to me how winning the popular voted by over 3,000,000 votes and the Electoral College 332 to 206 makes up the barest majority?

          • May 31, 2013 at 12:23 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Oh SNAP – nice Ron! Yeah, President Obama beat Romney into the ground based on Candy Crawly – flippin’ hilarious. The comedy continues from The Right. Although, in Minnesota’s 6th District, Congressional Comedy died the other day with Michelle’s announcement. I was hoping for more “Happy Birthday (or death day) Elvis” and “John Wayne (umm, Gacy) was born here.” Lord, Michelle is in the end of days (and Minnesota rejoices as well as sighs in relief)!

          • June 14, 2013 at 4:59 pm
            Agent says:
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            Dave, I think we can pronounce our current FBI Director officially brain dead which fits the model of all this Administration when they are called up on the hill to testify. They either take the 5th or can’t recall, do not know, say it is under investigation or don’t even know who the investigator is to investigate. Mueller fits in nicely with this Administration. He is supposed to retire in September. I wonder who the equally inept replacement will be.

    • June 13, 2013 at 2:50 pm
      Agent says:
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      So Sargeant, did you see the latest Pew Research poll. The data went back to 1960. The question was – Do you trust the government? In 1960, Americans approved of their government 73% to 27% disapproved. Fast forward to today. 73% disapprove of government while only 27% approve. Can we surmise that a large, insidious government who seeks to control every aspect of our lives is not very popular with the folks? By the way, we had balanced budgets and no food stamps or the hundreds of other entitlement programs and we hadn’t had the Social Security Trust Fund raided back then. Is there a message in these results?

  • May 30, 2013 at 3:24 pm
    Sergeant Major says:
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    FFA-

    It is hard to say but congratulations to you and the Chicago Blackhawks. I thought we had it when we were up 3-1 but that is why they play a series. Great game last night!
    Good luck out west

    • May 30, 2013 at 5:03 pm
      Nebraskan says:
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      I didn’t know Sergeant Major played in the NHL, too! woot!

  • May 30, 2013 at 5:38 pm
    FFA says:
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    Was a great series to wrap up a Division Rivalry for good…
    I will tip my hat to your team. Was a fun one to watch. Very entertaining. Oh, and I love the results!

    Now, we just have to wait for football! Bring on the Lions! Baseball season is over in Chicago.

    • May 30, 2013 at 6:13 pm
      Sargeant Major says:
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      With the Wings out, I am back to watching Detroit Tiger baseball. I love football but the Lions have been so bad over the years that college football is the game of choice come fall. I will keep an eye on the NHL play offs and would prefer an original 6 team win. Good Luck
      You a cub or Sox fan? I have been in Wrigley and I have to say it is a fabulous place to watch a baseball game. I was a guest to one of our customers in Chicago and I sat behind home plate in the first row so I was one of the people who was on TV when the pitcher tossed the ball to home plate. What a great experience. You could hear the Umpire calling the pitch.

      • May 31, 2013 at 10:05 am
        FFA says:
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        I favor the Cubs, but just want to watch a good game even if its the Sox.

        I have a minor league team up the road from me. Good time there. Love watching college & Little League world series too. Nothing better then people playing for the love of the game. A friend of mine was invited to mplay in the over 40 world series down in AZ this fall. Thinking about making that trip.

  • May 30, 2013 at 5:46 pm
    Celtica says:
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    Obamacare issues were also key in the 2012.
    And we all know how that worked out with Obama’s re-election.

    • May 30, 2013 at 7:20 pm
      Dave says:
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      Thanks to all of the Obama’s lies and the media cover up of such lies and support of lies.

      • May 31, 2013 at 8:12 am
        Ron says:
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        Dave,
        I am not disagreeing with you, but please explain what the media has to gain by supporting Obama? He seems to be against everything for which the media stands.
        Here are 3 examples to what I am referring:
        1. They rely on the 1st Amendment to the Constitution to function, but Obama is trying to destroy the Constitution.
        2. They make a lot of money, but Obama is trying to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor.
        3. They are for profit, but Obama is destroying the economy which adversly affects their profits.

        • May 31, 2013 at 9:43 am
          Dave says:
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          You’d have to ask the mainstream media why they support Obama. But they certainly do. I never declared the media to be bright, to understand basic economics and what the Obama platform is doing to this country. But the most certainly support his liberal agenda.

          • May 31, 2013 at 9:51 am
            Ron says:
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            If I ask them, they will say that they only report the facts and are unbiased.
            I asked you because you are the one who is stating that they are biased with no logical reason. If anything, they should be biased against President Obama for the reasons I layed out for you. But, as I thought would be the case, you have no answer. Just because you do not like what they report and how they present it, you think they are against you and your viewpoints.

          • May 31, 2013 at 3:01 pm
            Libby says:
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            You got him. Dave will now ignore you, Ron.

          • May 31, 2013 at 5:41 pm
            Agent says:
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            Dave, it goes to show you that almost anyone can get into Journalism School. That is probably the easiest major to have in college and with all the liberal professors ensconced in colleges, they get indoctrinated very well by the time they graduate. They can then get a job in the liberal media whether it be a paper or network. It boils down to being “true believers” and they have no clue what is going on in the real world.

  • May 30, 2013 at 6:03 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    I find it interesting when the left talks about Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid like it is a great running, wonderfully efficient machine. LOL. They are bureaucratic, inefficient, underfunded, bloating with little to no oversight for fraud. It is to the point where something is going to have to be done or they will go broke. That is the facts and the federal government talks about it a lot. Just watch your favorite news program. That means benefit cuts to participants and cuts to doctors and hospitals. For SS it means less money or participants either in payment cuts and certainly cost of living. Not to mention the $719 billion Obama took out of Medicare to pay for Obamacare. Why do you think the White House is talking about mean testing SS? What is that? There will be people who have paid into SS for 40 years and the promise made to them by the government will be some far less reduced amount and in some cases, maybe nothing.
    Does anyone think ACA will be any different other than pushing the country closer to bankruptcy? Well, why are Democrats now starting to join the Republicans as more and more costs, implementation expenses, unintended consequences, hidden taxes etc. show up?

    • May 30, 2013 at 6:39 pm
      Celtica says:
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      The Republicans were out to lunch during funding for unnecessary wars and tax cuts for years on end. They hardly qualify as astute financial managers and acted more like drunken sailors on shore leave after 11 months at sea (with all due respect to actual sailors on actual shore leave).

      • May 30, 2013 at 7:21 pm
        Dave says:
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        Yeah, Bush deficits of $400-$500 billion and Obama deficits of $1.2 trillion. Your financial acuity is as bad as Obama’s.

        • May 30, 2013 at 8:12 pm
          Celtica says:
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          Dear Dave:

          Don’t let the facts get in your way. According to Washington Post article dated 1-31-12, the cumulative cost of Bush’s policies from 2001 to 2009 is $5.1 trillion. The cost of Obama’s policies in this period was $983 billion.

          Let’s not forget the surplus Bush started with and the deficit Bush left Obama.

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

          • May 30, 2013 at 8:26 pm
            Celtica says:
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            Further to the above as of April 2013, the U.S. deficit is $900 billion. At the end of 2000, there was a surplus of $236 billion when Bush took office and a deficit of $459 billion when Bush left office. Doing the math, Bush racked up debt of $731 billion ($236 + $495); Obama started with a deficit of $459 billion and has current debt of $900 billion, leaving a total of $441 billion ($900-$459)

            Spin that one.

            http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php

          • May 31, 2013 at 12:26 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Oh Celtica, you’re getting too ‘facty’ for all of us out here. That doesn’t support the Fox Newslike narrative. C’mon, you should know better.

          • May 31, 2013 at 12:51 pm
            Celtica says:
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            Dear Captain Planet:

            I knew there was a reason why I liked your point of view. The facts get in the way of the Republicans all the time (WMD in Iraq, etc.).

            Wait, I can see Russia from my home…

          • May 31, 2013 at 1:21 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            I read all the newspapers and magazines, you bethca (look at notes on hand, run away when you notice those aren’t Fox News cameramen. Or, you could Michelle Bachmann it and hide in bushes when you see gay people).

            Wait, that brings up a question. Does Michelle hide in bushes at home when she sees her husband, Marcus?

      • May 30, 2013 at 10:49 pm
        Sargeant Major says:
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        You must be referring to the current Democratic President who has spent more than all the other presidents combined- Look it up. And has a deficit run rate of over 1 Trillion a year I believe. Another uninformed Obama voter

        • June 4, 2013 at 5:33 pm
          Agent says:
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          Sarge, Have you seen the five biggest lies about Obamacare that were told to the American People? This is what was being sold back in the day and now they want to spend more money to sell it again.
          1. Obamacare will lower the cost of Healthcare. Oops! Costs are rising dramatically.
          2. Obamacare will not increase the deficit. Projections are 6.2Trillion added to the deficit.
          3. If you like your doctor, you can keep him. Doctors are leaving the profession and long lines await for the remaining doctors to treat.
          4. Obamacare will create jobs. Wrong, it is the biggest job killer in recent history with employers laying off or reducing hours to employees.
          5. If you like your plan, you can keep it. Oops! Many plans don’t fit the model for Obamacare and it has to conform to the one size fits all models. Therefore, many plans will have to be changed drastically and most will just go away.

          • June 5, 2013 at 8:35 am
            Libby says:
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            Cluck, cluck says Chicken Little. The sky is falling. AGAIN!

  • May 30, 2013 at 7:04 pm
    WyomingAgent says:
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    I will stay our of the political debate concerning Obamacare (for the record I oppose it). All I know is that there is no government program that is run efficiently, effectively and within budget. After 20 years in the military I learned that government accounting makes no sense at all. Not sure turning 20% of GDP over to the government to run is in our best interests.

  • May 30, 2013 at 7:12 pm
    insurance is fun! says:
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    Please, Republicans, go after Obama again. It works so well for you.

    • May 30, 2013 at 7:23 pm
      Dave says:
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      Now that he’s not running again, now that the media is doing it’s job again, it just may work this time. How soon you forgot 2010 when he didn’t run. You liked the outcome of that election?

      • May 30, 2013 at 10:39 pm
        Sargeant Major says:
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        What is interesting is the majority of the media made him out to be the messiah and in exchange for all the love he hacked into AP and took whatever they wanted. They also hacked James Rosen’s personal email account and phone records and I heard today they may try to hold Rosen in contempt. I guess the media honeymoon is over.

        • May 31, 2013 at 1:19 am
          Celtica says:
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          That messiah crap was so 2008. I never mistook him for a messiah — so why did you? I don’t love him, and he doesn’t love me. But that’s not why I voted for him. He was just the best person for the job — both times.

          After Bush trampling all over the Constitution with wiretapping and goodness knows what else (protecting Bin Laden), I guess you have a new found sense of indignation about those little things that do matter.

          • June 3, 2013 at 1:51 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            And, Celtica, your Bush bashing-crap is also so 2008. This POS so-called POTUS has been in office for 5 years, yet all you lefties are still blaming Bush for every single thing that is bad. If things were bad, Obama has made them 10 times worse. Get over it..Obama is the most unqualified president this country has EVER had.

          • June 3, 2013 at 2:06 pm
            Libby says:
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            Obama pales in comparison to the miserable failures of George W. Bush and history will bear this out.

          • June 3, 2013 at 2:23 pm
            Ron says:
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            Patti,
            Please provide the metrics suporting your assertion that Obama has made things 10 times worse than when he took office.
            Please cite your source(s).

          • June 3, 2013 at 2:29 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Ron, all you need to do is open your eyes and ears. ‘Nuff said.

          • June 3, 2013 at 2:59 pm
            Ron says:
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            Patti,

            Once again you have proven my point. Republicans are all about spreading empty rhetoric and misinformation without any quantitative support. That is why we Independents will not vote for most Republicans. I did not want Obama re-elected, but the Republicans could not provide an electable candidate. Jon Huntsman would have beaten Obama by at least 10 points, but would not cater to the far-right. He wanted to actually help all Americans, not ignore 47%.

          • June 3, 2013 at 3:08 pm
            jw says:
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            Patti, even I know “open your eyes and ears” is not a source. That’s not even anecdotal evidence. If you want to change someone’s opinion, you have to provide the impetus for that change. Convince me, with real evidence that you’re right. Don’t just say “I’m right.”

          • June 3, 2013 at 7:24 pm
            CELTICA says:
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            Patty Cake, do you kiss your famiily with that potty mouth? It only goes to relect why your side lost power — lack of respect for anyone else other than your own messiah.

          • June 4, 2013 at 1:53 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Rons says: “Please provide the metrics suporting your assertion…” (Blah blah blah….) How are these for supporting my assertion (not in order of occurrence)..

            Benghazi (broadcasted through every media source available)

            Fast and Furious(broadcasted through every media source available)

            IRS scandal(broadcasted through every media source available)

            AP scandal(broadcasted through every media source available)

            widespread use of private email accounts by political appointees (not yet (broadcasted through every media source available, but will be)

            Eric Holder (broadcasted through every media source available…yes–this IS Obama’s scandal..HE appointed the POS)

            Solyndra (broadcasted through every media source available)

            I’m sure there are even more that I can’t pull off the top of my head…THIS is what you people voted in. He’s a crook, a thief, and a deceiver.

          • June 4, 2013 at 2:11 pm
            Ron says:
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            Patti,
            Number 1, none of those are metrics, only anecdotal evidence. I already know that Obama and his administration have made mistakes. I do not need to be convinced of that.

            Number 2, how do any of those things prove that Obama made things 10 times worse? That is the assertion for which I requested metrics.

            If you were to read my posts you would know that I am an Independent and not a blind Obama supporter. I was hoping the Republicans would have been smart enough to run Jon Huntsman. I would have voted for him over Obama.

            I am an anlytical thinker and you’re using evidence trying to persuade an emotional thinker. Provide data and you may convince me.

          • June 4, 2013 at 2:21 pm
            Libby says:
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            OMG, PC. I could tick off at least that many, if not more, for every administration that’s ever been in office. If I did that, though, I would be told it’s old news and has nothing to do with Obama. Well, the point is – follow your bible studies AND DON’T BE A HYPOCRITE. I know it’s hard between Sunday services to keep that up, but please try. JC would want you to.

      • June 3, 2013 at 10:46 am
        Agent says:
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        Dave, after the Chicago machine destroyed Hilary in the primaries, called Willy a racist and ended up winning, there was a lot of bad blood. They seemed to have mended the fences now and this last election, Willy came over and said I will support you if you support Hilary in 2016. Politics does make for some strange bedfellows, doesn’t it?

        • June 5, 2013 at 2:54 pm
          FFA says:
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          Agent says “Chicago machine”.
          He missed the big picture – Cook County Machine. Still crooks, but in a bigger scale.

  • May 30, 2013 at 10:33 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Dave says-Thanks to all of the Obama’s lies and the media cover up of such lies and support of lies.

    Yes, Dave there is the lies ad cover up about Benghazi that left 4 Americans dead just so Obama could win an election. Then we have the IRS scandal- the same group who will manage Obamacare (What a joke). And now we have the administration hacking into AP to steal information.
    Here is how I see it:

    First they lied. Then they lied about lying. Then they hid and went silent about lying and they continued to lie. Then they decide to apologize for the lies they said they did not tell.

    They must have been trained in Chicago politics for Democrats, or possibly Detroit.

    • May 31, 2013 at 9:21 am
      Dave says:
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      Sargeant, living in Chicago I live with the rotten Chicago politics on a daily basis. I never believed the stench from the political swamp here would reach the White House, but unfortunately I was wrong. I believed the nation at large was smarter than than that (smarter than the folks in Chicago), but I was wrong on that too. Welcome USA to Chicago style politics. I promise you will despise it.

      • May 31, 2013 at 10:08 am
        Agent says:
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        Dave, I read an article the other day about a man who has studied Chicago politics going back to the start of the Daley machine. They controlled the city with their legions and made sure the elections came out right. Obama came along in 2004 and realized he needed the Daley machine to further his ambition. Axelrod & Emanuel were both lieutenants for Daley. They joined the rising star. The main difference he said between the Daley’s and the Obama machine is that they did make an attempt to govern and Obama’s crew is all politics all the time and actual governing is an after thought. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Am I close?

      • May 31, 2013 at 10:20 am
        FFA says:
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        YEA to Dave!!!! Chicago Politics in the White House.
        CPD running the IRS, tapping phone lines.
        How was OBama Greeted home this week? 17 shooting and 4 murders. Rahm bragging about his success with schools. – Highest Grad rate in over 20 years.
        Not sure what to think of the guy.
        Sun Times canned all their photographers. Saw another retail shop going out of business on my way in this AM. More UnEmployment heading to IL….

    • May 31, 2013 at 12:26 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sergeant, have you heard the latest scandal story? It seems that Obama and the Defense Department have spent $700 Million of our tax dollars to buy Russian made helicopters to give to Afghanistan. Hello, what is wrong with American made helicopters if we want to stimulate the economy? Perhaps this is what he meant when he told Putin he would be more flexible in his second term. What happened to sequester and cutting back the Defense Department? This is worse than giving $250 Million to the Muslim brotherhood.

      • May 31, 2013 at 1:32 pm
        FFa says:
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        Come on agent, that would put Americans to work. Why would he do something like that??? Think his kids would ever go to bed hungry??

        • June 5, 2013 at 12:22 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hey FFA, don’t you feel more secure now that Susan Rice has been named National Security Advisor to the President? I guess you get a promotion if you go out and tell a bunch of lies to the media about Benghazi. She was being a good soldier and taking the heat, so she gets to advise the President on how to do the next talking points lies to the American People.

          • June 5, 2013 at 2:33 pm
            Celtica says:
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            Guess who was NSC on the day of 9-11??? Condoleeza Rice — who could not foresee that jets being flown into buildings.

            Hollywood could and has envisioned it. But not the Bush Administration.

            Nope.

          • June 5, 2013 at 3:17 pm
            Libby says:
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            Yeah, here’s some news on her: “the New York Times detailed how the Bush administration made claims about Iraq’s nuclear capabilities that were contradicted by our own intelligence. Condoleezza Rice tried to defend her statements over the weekend, yet she again displayed incompetence in the performance of her job. In today’s editorial, the Times nails the issue – if Rice informed Bush about the intelligence, then Bush intentionally misled the public with his and his administration’s prewar statements about the nuclear threat. If she didn’t inform him and then allowed him to proceed to war on bad intelligence, then she should have resigned due to her incompetence.

            Which is it? You decide.

      • May 31, 2013 at 2:06 pm
        Ron says:
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        Agent,
        Provide a non-conservative source please. I could not even find anything about this on Fox News.

        • May 31, 2013 at 3:22 pm
          Agent says:
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          Try Freedom Outpost. They are ahead of Fox News by several days. I had to laugh at you wanting me to provide the story with a non-conservative source.The lame-stream bunch haven’t covered the news in several years and are just now waking up to the realization that this administration is going after them as well. Don’t worry, it will all come out and when it hits the fan, a lot of people are going to be angry about it.

          • May 31, 2013 at 3:29 pm
            Ron says:
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            Freedom Post? Really? You do not believe that is a conservative website?
            I have a question for you regarding the, as you quote Sarah Palin, lame-stream bunch. I asked Dave and he could not give me an answer so I will give you a shot at it:
            Please explain what the media has to gain by supporting Obama? He seems to be against everything for which the media stands.
            Here are 3 examples to what I am referring:
            1. They rely on the 1st Amendment to the Constitution to function, but Obama is trying to destroy the Constitution.
            2. They make a lot of money, but Obama is trying to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor.
            3. They are for profit, but Obama is destroying the economy which adversly affects their profits.

            I do not want to hear you say that they are in his back pocket, I want you to provide reasonable logic what they have to gain by not covering news.

          • May 31, 2013 at 3:58 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent said:
            “It will all come out when it hits the fan…”

            Just like Romney was going to smoke President Obama and The Supreme Court was going to rule the PPACA Unconstitutional, right Agent?

          • June 3, 2013 at 12:05 pm
            Agent says:
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            Your reading skills leave something to be desired Ron. I said Freedom Outpost, not Freedom Post. Yes, it is a conservative site, but I wouldn’t expect to see anything like it on the leftist sites.

          • June 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,
            Typical from a Republican. You miss “Out” from “Outpost” when typing in a blog and your reading skills leave something to be desired. Maybe you were referring to my typing skills.
            So, Fox News is a leftist site now? It has been several days now.
            How about answering my question regarding why the media supports someone who is against them. Do not give the old “they have all been indoctrinated” line.
            Try to provide a real logical reason why an entire industry, Fox News included, will work so hard against their own interests?

        • June 10, 2013 at 3:10 pm
          Agent says:
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          Wrong country and wrong analogy Libby. Bush never made any statements about Iraq’s nuclear capability. Israel solved that problem many years ago by blowing up Saddam’s one nuclear plant. Gee, I don’t know how the intelligence communities all over the world could have been so wrong about Saddam and his WMD’s. Why did the UN give 17 separate resolutions and impose sanctions all that time? Why wouldn’t Saddam give admittance to inspectors all that time? Nothing there, let’s just move on.

          • June 10, 2013 at 4:54 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’ll move on just because you are stubborn as hell or dumber than dirt. Even I remember remember the yellow cake scandal, so how can you say Bush never mentioned a nuclear threat from Iraq? Are you going to dispute the conservative “American Thinker” or “Free Republic?” You don’t even know what blithering rubbish is being spewed by your own party!

      • June 3, 2013 at 11:07 am
        Libby says:
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        Agent – you need to read further than just the headlines to get the whole story. If you had, you would have found out:

        The Pentagon, under a controversial program, for several years has been buying Mi-35 helicopters from Rosoboronexport, a Russian government-run arms manufacturer. Defense officials say they must buy Russian choppers because those are the ones with which Afghan military mechanics and crews are most familiar.

        Capt. John Kirby told reporters the Rosoboronexport deal is the only “legal” mechanism at the Pentagon’s disposal through which it can supply the fledgling Afghan air force with combat helicopters.

        Now, are we supposed to support the new military regime in Afghanistan or let them sink or swim on their own?

        • June 3, 2013 at 12:10 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, your interpretation of this story is naive at best. What have we been doing in Afghanistan for the past 10 years. They crow about all the training we have been giving the Afghan forces so they can stand on their own feet. I would think we would be training them so they could use American made equipment, not Russian equipment. Why are we rewarding Putin with this contract when we have helicopters that can do the job just as well. This is just another slap in the face to America.

          • June 3, 2013 at 12:15 pm
            LIbby says:
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            Personally, Agent, I don’t want them to have American choppers. Our equipment is far superior than that of the Russians and don’t think it ought to go to a country like Afghanistan. Let’s keep the good stuff for ourselves.

          • June 3, 2013 at 2:47 pm
            Agent says:
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            So what you are saying Libby is that a contract to build helicopters should go to Russian industry rather than American industry which needs the jobs. Cute. Afghanistan doesn’t deserve to have good equipment to fight off the Taliban, right? You may have a point though. Years ago when the Russians tried to make them another province of the Soviet Union, they did lose a lot of helicopters to our stinger missiles we provided to the rebels. We just keep on forking over the money and watching it disappear before our eyes.

          • June 4, 2013 at 8:54 am
            Libby says:
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            Your beloved defense budget at work, Agent.

      • June 4, 2013 at 3:03 pm
        jw says:
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        Did you really want Afghanistan to have American made helicopters? Think about it.

    • June 7, 2013 at 5:52 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sarge, then they made Susan Rice National Security Advisor which is adding insult to injury. Then, they appointed the wife of the now infamous Cass Sunstein Ambassador to the UN. Wow, she only compared the US to the Nazi’s of WW11. What a representative we have there. I’m sure she will get that UN arms treaty signed forthwith.

  • May 31, 2013 at 9:20 am
    Libby says:
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    Not anything like your Messiah Sarge, Dave and Agent.

    George W. Bush is a liar. He has lied large and small, directly and by omission. His Iraq lies have loomed largest. In the run-up to the invasion, Bush based his case for war on a variety of unfounded claims that extended far beyond his controversial uranium-from-Niger assertion. He maintained that Saddam Hussein possessed “a massive stockpile” of unconventional weapons and was directly “dealing” with Al Qaeda–two suppositions unsupported then (or now) by the available evidence. He said the International Atomic Energy Agency had produced a report in 1998 noting that Iraq was six months from developing a nuclear weapon; no such report existed (and the IAEA had actually reported then that there was no indication Iraq had the ability to produce weapons-grade material). Bush asserted that Iraq was “harboring a terrorist network, headed by a senior Al Qaeda terrorist planner”; US intelligence officials told reporters this terrorist was operating ouside of Al Qaeda control. And two days before launching the war, Bush said, “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.” Yet former deputy CIA director Richard Kerr, who is conducting a review of the prewar intelligence, has said that intelligence was full of qualifiers and caveats, and based on circumstantial and inferential evidence.

    The Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003. President Bush, for example, made 232 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and another 28 false statements about Iraq’s links to Al Qaeda.

    Now, 4 people tragically died in Benghazi – whether Obama is to blame or not – and how many thousands died in Iraq, directly at the hands of Dubya? He should have stood trial and been shot for treason against this country. If that’s all you got on Obama, you got nuttin’. Pound sand.

    • May 31, 2013 at 9:40 am
      Dave says:
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      First of all Libby. GWB was not a liar. He got bad intelligence. Please prove what he said was made up by him and not based on intelligence he received before you make such baseless allegations.

      Second, it has been proven beyond any doubt that Obama got “good intelligence” on Benghazi. That the raid was indeed an Al Qaeda attack, that it was not a result of a protest about a video and we know he went out the very next day knowing it was an Al Qaeda and lied about that. We know that Jay Carney, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and others within the administration lied numerous times about it. We know that Obama lied during the debates when he said that he declared it a terrorist attack the next day and was supported by political hack Candy Crawley (alleged non-partisan debate moderator).

      And third, in the famous words of Hillary Clinton, it doesn’t matter any more. Bush is out of office. Obama and his political hacks are still in power and need to be addressed as they continue to lie and make political hack decisions we all need to deal with (including running up the national debt), GWB doesn’t.

      And finally. Your last BS statement. Again, GWB is not solely responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans in Iraq. So is Hillary Clinton and John Kerry who voted for the war in Iraq along with many other Senators and Congressmen on both sides of the aisle. Should they be taken out and shot for treason too? And Libby, if things were so good in Iraq prior to the invasion, why didn’t you live there or live in similar Muslim controlled countries now. Where women are treated like property. Where they can’t drive or hold down jobs. Where they must wear burka’s outside the house. Where they cannot leave the house without being escorted by their husband or other male family member. GBW, others who supported the war and the US at large gets no credit for freeing millions of Iraqi’s from Saddam’s iron fist? A really sick post Libby? Really sick. Who is committing treason here?

      • May 31, 2013 at 9:55 am
        Dave says:
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        One last thing Libby. I always had a difficult time understanding how the mind of a far left whacko thinks. Thanks for helping me understand with your hate laced rant asking for the execution of George Bush. As much as I hate the policies of Obama, I’m not calling for his execution. I guess that is another thing which differentiates the left from the right. Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, all of the far left are responsible for millions of deaths. I see now how the hatred espoused by the left leads to that.

        • May 31, 2013 at 2:50 pm
          Libby says:
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          I’m only calling for one death. Dubya called for thousands. And yes, I do hate the man. With a passion.

          • June 3, 2013 at 2:35 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Then, you should understand my deep, impassioned hatred for your messiah, Obama.

          • June 3, 2013 at 5:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            I do, but he is not my messiah.

          • June 3, 2013 at 5:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            Was Bush yours???

          • June 4, 2013 at 1:56 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            I have one Messiah, Libby. His name is Jesus Christ. Now, try to argue with me on that.

          • June 4, 2013 at 2:16 pm
            Libby says:
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            I can’t say you follow his teachings very well, considering some of the nasty things you’ve said on this blog. But then again, I find most bible-thumpers are like that. Don’t talk the talk, baby. Walk the walk.

          • June 4, 2013 at 2:32 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Libby. Again, WOW. I can only shake my head at the vitriol that comes out of your mouth in 99.999999% of your postings. And, you say I say nasty things? You lefties are all so in denial about EVERYTHING!!! I am so happy not to be like any of you!!

          • June 4, 2013 at 2:47 pm
            Ron says:
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            Patti,
            How do go from “my deep, impassioned hatred for your messiah, Obama.” to “I have one Messiah, Libby. His name is Jesus Christ.”? I do not recall anywhere in the New Testament where Jesus preached hatred, not even to His enemies or those wishing to destroy Him.
            Way to be a faithful follower.
            Please show where anyone has referenced President Obama as their Messiah? That is just more Republican rhetoric and hyperbole with no bases in fact.

          • June 4, 2013 at 3:07 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            OMG, RON…You are so incredibly annoying, in a way that only a liberal can be! Between you and Libby, I am going to shake my head right off of my shoulders. Unbelievable how you defend this man no matter what. You do realize that he killed 4 Americans, don’t you?

          • June 4, 2013 at 3:16 pm
            Ron says:
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            Patti,
            I am not defending Obama, only questioning your Christianity.

            Please provide your evidence to indicate that I am a liberal.

            I am still waiting for some metrics to prove Obama made things 10 times worse? I should probably stop asking because they do not exist.

          • June 4, 2013 at 3:17 pm
            Celtica says:
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            In reading Patticake’s comments, it is very striking that she does not see her own incivility, following the one true messiah as she does.

            It is also very notable that the extreme inflexiblity of the far right wing here does not see their correlation with the extremist terrorists who also refuse to see any middle ground.

            Dislike away, kids, dislike away.

          • June 4, 2013 at 3:18 pm
            Libby says:
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            PC: If I have vitriol, which I don’t think I do except towards Dubya, I find it necessary to point out that I am not the one touting my love of Jesus Christ. You are. You are a hypocrite of the first order, lady. And I am so glad not to be like you. I may be a liberal, but I’m not an intolerant, hypocritical, hate monger.

          • June 4, 2013 at 3:25 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh, and BTW. Bush killed 4,486 in Iraq. 4 seems miniscule compared to 4,486, doesn’t it? If you say no, I will know you are just a right-wing extremist with nothing but feathers for brains.

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:32 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Ron–my Christianity is none of your business.

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:37 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Wow…you liberals have no end to your diatribes, to you? WHERE, Libby, did I ‘tout’ my love for Jesus Christ? All I said was that I believe in one Messiah, Jesus Christ, unlike you liberals who treat the POS POTUS like your messiah. Do you see the difference, dear, or do I need to be more black and white for you?

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:39 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Libby says: “Oh, and BTW. Bush killed 4,486 in Iraq. 4 seems miniscule compared to 4,486, doesn’t it? If you say no, I will know you are just a right-wing extremist with nothing but feathers for brains.”

            You’re right, Libby. Because those four deaths mean nothing more than the 4486 killed in Iraq–in other words, WHAT DOES IT MATTER NOW??! You people absolutely SICKEN me.

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:47 pm
            Libby says:
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            Is there no end to your conservative bullshit? I have never treated anyone as a messiah, let alone Barack Obama. So get your facts straight, dear. (And I loved the bigoted “black and white” pun you slipped in there.)

            And what the hell does this mean??

            “You’re right, Libby. Because those four deaths mean nothing more than the 4486 killed in Iraq–in other words, WHAT DOES IT MATTER NOW??! You people absolutely SICKEN me.”

            What does it matter now? Are you serious? I’m sure it matters now to all 4,490 families of those people you moron.

            I was right the first time. Feathers for brains.

          • June 6, 2013 at 10:49 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Libby wrote:

            …”What does it matter now? Are you serious? I’m sure it matters now to all 4,490 families of those people you moron.”

            Libby…you are either REALLY good at PLAYING dumb, or you REALLY ARE dumb. Those words, “What does it matter now?” came out of Hillary Clinton’s mouth..NOT mine..HERS!!! How quickly your little feather brain forgets!! Oh, and, I am now using YOUR words..POUND SAND!!!

          • June 6, 2013 at 5:00 pm
            Libby says:
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            Leave it to you to take her words out of context and try to use them for your own political agenda. Her comment was in the context of what does it matter how it happened, it doesn’t change the fact that it did. Now I know you and all your other right-wing fanatical friends want to try to make something out of that statement, so go ahead. Have at it. Me, I thought your comment was in very poor taste.

          • June 10, 2013 at 9:22 am
            Dave says:
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            Libby, you’ve been exposed for the far left hate monger you are. As much as I despise the policies of Obama and his misguided vision for this once great country I don’t call for sh death as you do Bush. Any remaining post you make on this thread or any other one will be tainted by your avowed hatred for Bush and the calling for his death. The violence bestowed upon this Earth by the left is well documented and after reading your posts I can now see where it comes from. I will continue to read your posts and respond where necessary, but in the future will always consider the source. I feel sorry for all the hate you harbor Libby, it’s not good for you.

          • June 10, 2013 at 12:14 pm
            Libby says:
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            Dave – in this country, the punishment for treason is death. I am not “calling for” his death. I am saying he committed treason and the penalty for that is death. You right-wingers are all for the death penalty, aren’t you??? And yes, I can’t stand Bush and what he did to this country. It will take us years to put ourselves right, domestically and foreignly.

      • May 31, 2013 at 10:00 am
        Agent says:
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        Dave, the bad intelligence came from numerous intelligence sources all over the globe. Am I wrong that we had about 17 countries participating in the war against Saddam? Libby seems to think GW was a cowboy and did it on his own. GW did go before the UN to state the case and they did pass 17 resolutions to force Saddam to allow inspections, but they wasted enough time to allow him to squirrel away the weapons before the action started. It seemed to me that Congress voted for this war as well and Libby’s hero Hilary was lock step in favor of it. Libby has very selective memory of what happened, don’t you think?

        • May 31, 2013 at 2:53 pm
          Libby says:
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          No selective memory here, Agent. Just the truth. Read it a weep. HE LIED. HE LIED. HE LIED. Congress, the U.N., and the American people all fell for his LIES. They are coming out now and he will go down in history for the lying sack of miserable failure he was.

          • June 3, 2013 at 3:42 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Libby. Please tell me why you think GWB’s lies (which I don’t believe he actually told…) are any different than Obama’s (which have proven that he has told, by the way…)

          • June 3, 2013 at 5:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            A. There is no “proof” of Obama lying – yet.
            B. Bush’s lies brought us into a 10 year war and thousands of our troops were killed.

            Sorry, to me that stacks up a little bit bigger than it was a terrorist attack or a video or some hot-shot IRS gunslingers going off on a tea-party tangent.

            Just sayin.

          • June 4, 2013 at 1:58 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            NO PROOF THAT OBAMA LIED?? YOU’RE KIDDING, RIGHT?? WOW….Libby..just WOW..

          • June 4, 2013 at 2:14 pm
            Libby says:
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            What proof, PC??? You come out with these outrageous statements and then refuse or are unable to back them up with facts. What, exactly, did he lie about and where is the proof he lied (told an untruth – not “got bad intelligence” like your hero, Dubya.)

          • June 4, 2013 at 2:32 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            OHH!! LIBBY!!!

          • June 4, 2013 at 2:42 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Sorry, Libby…I had to collect my thoughts so that I can respond to your post without absolutely cracking up and falling off of my chair. What proof, you ask? Hmmm…does a little thing called a VIDEO come to mind? You know!! The video that he said caused the terror attack (which the POS wouldn’t even call a terror attack..) in Benghazi? You know!! The attack that killed our four Americans on our soil that he didn’t send any help to save? Wow..

          • June 4, 2013 at 3:26 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh, PC. That was just “bad intelligence” Obama got from the State Department. And there is another VIDEO where he clearly calls it a terrorist act. Where do you come up with this drivel?

          • June 5, 2013 at 2:03 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Here’s some proof for ya, Lib:

            #1. “Our current best assessment based on the information we have at present is that in fact what this began as was a spontaneous, not a premeditated, response to what had transpired in Cairo.” — Susan Rice (BS!!!)

            #2. “What we do know is that the natural protests that arose because of the outrage over the video were used as an excuse by extremists to see if they can also directly harm U.S. interests.” — President Obama (BS!!)

            #3. “But the entire reason that this has become the, you know, political topic it is is because of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.” — Stephanie Cutter (Obama’s campaign spokesperson) (was she kidding? WTF?!!)

            #4. “That is what we saw play out in the last two weeks, as a crude and disgusting video, sparked outrage throughout the Muslim world.” — President Obama (Ummm…BS!!)

            #5. “I know there are some who ask, why don’t we just ban such a video. The answer is enshrined in our laws. Our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech.” — President Obama (although this is not a lie, it is still BS coming out of his mouth)

            #6. “Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior along with the protest that took place at our embassy in Cairo yesterday as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet.” — Hillary Clinton (BS!!)

            #7. “We can all condemn this reprehensible video.” — Victoria Nuland (BS!!)

            #8. “Find the video that has been so offensive to Muslims to be disgusting and reprehensible.” — Jay Carney (BS!!)

            #9. “To address the video circulating on the Internet that has led to these protests.” — Hillary Clinton (BS!!)

            #10. “Was a violent protest outside of our embassy sparked by this hateful video.” — Susan Rice (BS!! She kept trying, though!!!)

            #11. “And it is in response, not to United States policy, not to obviously the administration, not to the American people. It is in response to a video.” –
            Jay Carney (BS!!!)

            12. “Now we do not yet have indication that it was preplanned or premeditated.” – Jay Carney (BS!!)

            #13. Reporter: “And CBS has learned that the U.S. mission in Libya reportedly ‑‑ repeatedly asked for better security before last month’s attack on the American consulate in Benghazi. A State Department officer says there were 13 confirmed security threats in the six months before the attack. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans were killed three weeks ago.” (Don’tcha think it’s BS that these 4 men were not helped so that the POS Obama could get re-elected?!…and…WAIT FOR IT!! HERE’S JOE BIDEN’S RESPONSE!!) “Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security and we did not know they wanted more security again.” — Joe Biden (BS!!)

            #14. “The White House and State Department have made clear that the single adjustment that was made to those talking points by either of those two ‑‑ of these two institutions were changing the word consulate to diplomatic facility because consulate was inaccurate.” — Jay Carney (BS!!!)

            #15. “And make no mistake: We will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.” — President Obama (I believe the maker of the video was caught…not sure if the actual TERRORISTS were…)

            #16. “You had a video that was released by somebody who lives here, sort of a shadowy character who is extremely offensive video directed at Mohammed and Islam. We had nothing to do with the video.” — President Obama (BS!!!)

            #17. “It’s not a matter of blaming, that’s just the facts. Sometimes intelligence has to catch up with the reality on the ground. This was one of those cases.” — David Axelrod (BS!!! Tey were asked for MONTHS prior to 9/11/12 for help!!)

            #18. “First I pretty the faux outrage from the RNC and the Republican Party.” — Stephanie Cutter (Ummm..what?! And this person helped get the POS re-elected…)

            #19. “Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided they would go kill some Americans?” — Hillary Clinton (WEll…What does it matter now, Hillary? Right? What does it matter?)

            #20. “Let’s be clear: These protests were in reaction to a video that had spread to the region.” – Jay Carney (BS!!!)

            These, Libby, are all of the lies that were told by our top level people in Washington, and these all refer to only ONE, single event. Again…SICKENING!!!

          • June 5, 2013 at 3:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            And my I, once again, direct you to the hundreds of lies told by yours truly, Dubya (the POTUS BTW,) that led to 4,486 deaths:

            “The Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003. President Bush, for example, made 232 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and another 28 false statements about Iraq’s links to Al Qaeda.”

            I’m not defending Obama, but I’m sorry. It terms of egregious behavior Dubya wins hands down. So just make sure your house is not made of glass before you start throwing stones.

            That’s my only point in bringing this up. It’s not in defense of Obama, it’s to show there have been many terrible things done on BOTH sides of the aisle and maybe you should mind your own backyard and let others mind theirs.

          • June 6, 2013 at 10:51 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            NEWS FLASH, LIBBY!! The DEMS voted to go to war, too!! Oh, but PC!! The dems were lied to! BS!!!!

          • June 6, 2013 at 1:32 pm
            Libby says:
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            You call it BS. I call it history. But go ahead and keep your head buried in the sand about it if it makes you feel better.

        • June 14, 2013 at 4:13 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, as long as you broached the subject of treason, is it treasonous for a President to give aid and comfort to the enemies of this country? Obama plans to arm the resistance in Syria which has been thoroughly infiltrated by Al Quida operatives. He has given arms and aid to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt who counts the US & Israel as their enemy. Before you dismiss me as a kook, it was caught on an open mic in one of their meetings discussing the enemy US & Israel.

      • May 31, 2013 at 10:12 am
        D says:
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        Bush did not get as much bad intelligence as much as he and Cheney cherry picked the intelligence that would serve their goal of getting us into Iraq. Obama’s mistake on Bengazi was fearing republican led backlash. Remember when he first sent planes to blow Kadaffi out of Libya? The Republicans were the first to complain that he did not bring them into the loop before he ordered the air strikes. They acused him of increasing our military presence in Libya without their knowlege. So, do you really think Obama ordering more military into Bengazi would have had the Republican’s support? No, it would have been the same garbage from the republicans, complaining about Obama increasing our military presence in Libya. Obama is guilty of wimping out against the republicans on this one. Had he done was he should have and sent troops to the embassy, the republicans would have criticized him for it, but lives would have been saved. Obama was damned if he did and damned that he didn’t.

        • May 31, 2013 at 10:52 am
          Agent says:
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          Actually, they had Ambassador Stevens in Benghazi to broker guns and missile deals with the rebels who turned out to be Al Quida. The deal went south so they decided to take him out. Obama didn’t want that coming out right before the election so he decided to blame the video and a spontaneous demonstration for what happened. If everything was on the up and up, why were the troops told to stand down when they were only an hour away in Tripoli and had a plane on the tarmac. A President’s first duty of office is to protect Americans and he didn’t do it because of a political agenda.

          • May 31, 2013 at 1:26 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            That is rich! I just laughed my Jimmy John’s Beach Club all over my keyboard. Thanks for the laugh, Agent. I needed that today.

        • June 11, 2013 at 11:21 am
          Agent says:
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          Thank you Patti Cake for giving ole Ron those 20 Metrics he loves so well. Of course, you didn’t make much headway with Libby or Celtica since they are so brainwashed, all they know how to do is slam GW for anything and everything. They don’t realize they are supporting the most corrupt administration in modern history. Anyone with half a brain can see where they are coming from. I do appreciate your attempts though.

          • June 11, 2013 at 1:42 pm
            Libby says:
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            Those were hardly metrics, Agent. They were quoted statements that mean nothing. I don’t think they made any headway with anyone but you. I don’t blame Dubya for everything – just going to war with blood on his hands. Oh! And being a dufus. He’s a moron. I don’t know how you can’t see that. Just look at him. Or better yet. Listen to him. He can’t even speak English correctly. When God handed down brains, he did not get around to Dubya. Good thing he comes from money.

          • June 11, 2013 at 1:43 pm
            Libby says:
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            So he could buy himself some (Cheney, Rove, etc.)

          • June 13, 2013 at 2:59 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Patti Cake, the lib crowd makes light of the four we lost in Libya, about their total incompetence and their cowardice in not rescuing Americans on the ground when they had the ability to do so. Mr. Hicks, who was the State Dept on the ground testified to it and there are no excuses. Now, the wonderful State Dept is caught up in a prostitution and drug scandal that has been tried to cover up. There is one phrase for all this. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

          • June 14, 2013 at 10:23 am
            Libby says:
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            Nobody is making light of anything. Those deaths were tragic. But why do you not blame those that are truely responsible? The fanatical, foaming-at-the-mouth, extremist Islamic terrorists. (You thought I was gonna say right-wingers, didn’t you? See the similarities?)

            Mistakes were made, yes. But you are trying to make it a criminal case. Where were you when GWB told all his lies??? That was truely criminal.

      • May 31, 2013 at 2:47 pm
        Libby says:
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        Dave – if you had taken the time to actually READ my post, you would see where I stated, in fact, times where Bush LIED. He did not get bad intelligence, he made up bad intelligence – such as “massive stockpiles of unconventional weapons” when there was no report of any such thing, citing an Atomic Energy Agency report that did not exist, and stating Iraq was harboring “an Al Qaeda terrorist planner” when there was no evidence of any such thing. Those are untruths, also commonly known as LIES.

        It was Congress that was fed bad intelligence (aka LIES)directly from Bush & Cheney. Powell caught on and was so disgusted he quit. So no, Clinton & Kerry should not be tried for treason. Only Dubya and the Devil Incarnate (Cheney).

        Secondly, we all saw the tape where Obama called it an act of terror the day after the attack – so I don’t know what you’re smoking or what kool-aid you’re drinking to say he lied about that. And if Bush got “bad intelligence” on something as important as going to WAR, why is Obama not allowed to get bad intelligence about the cause of the Benghazi attack being on account of a video???

        You say you KNOW all these people lied, but there is not one shred of evidence of that to date. Not like the Bush lies I have outlined above and have been documented and confirmed.

        And no, freeing Iraqis from Saddam’s “iron fist” was not worth thousands of American lives. Especially considering not a damn thing has changed over there with the insurgents and the burkas.

        I am not the really sick one here Dave. GWB is a big fat liar. Rush Lindbaugh is a big fat idiot. And you are a big fat spinner of tales.

        • June 11, 2013 at 2:58 pm
          Agent says:
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          By the way Libby, GW also graduated from an Ivy League school the same as your President. I would like to compare his GPA with Obama’s sometime, but Obama’s records are sealed without any access to them. You claim GW is a dufus, but your guy is more so. I don’t think GW ever celebrated Cinco de Quatro or thought we had 57 states are said we had Army Corpse Men. Your guy can’t get a sentence out without a teleprompter. If the teleprompter has the wrong info on it, he just repeats it without a thought. Who is the dufus here?

          • June 11, 2013 at 3:00 pm
            Agent says:
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            In addition, he also said he was going to speed help to Monroe, Oklahoma after the tornado hit them. Everyone else in the nation knew it was Moore, Okla given all the coverage on it. My guess is his dufus assistant posting the remarks on the teleprompter got it wrong and he just repeated it without another thought.

          • June 11, 2013 at 4:20 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent, I am not comparing gaffes between Obama and Bush. I was making a statement about Bush. You accuse me of always bringing in Bush when you speak of Obama and yet you do the same thing. Bush made his fair share of gaffes, but beyond that he was just plain dumb. As a matter of fact, there is a name for it “Bushisms” and entire books have been written on the subject. Others have sought a deeper, psychological explanation: “To a psychiatrist, these are not mere malapropisms and mistakes in speech. They reveal a truth about what is going on inside the individual’s psyche. They suggest ambivalence oscillating chaotically between poles. They suggest the very desperate uncertainty about everything that the president reflexively seeks to hide by taking absolutist, rigid positions about “victory,” “success,” “mission accomplished,” “stay the course,” “compassion,” “tax cuts,” “no child left behind,” or a host of other issues.”

            He is not only illiterate, but perhaps mental.

    • May 31, 2013 at 6:00 pm
      Agent says:
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      Planet, It seems like plenty of bad stuff is hitting the fan right now. Keep on whistling your happy tune and we will see what happens. I, for one don’t like the direction this country is going in and seriously hope we drain the swamp in the coming year. We live in a very angry society and the IJ bloggers are only a microcosm of the division. How could the United States of America be so screwed up in only a generation or two? We have dumb leaders and apparently a good segment of very dumb people that vote for dumb leaders.

  • May 31, 2013 at 11:17 am
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Hey Libby;
    I guess you forgot about Bill Clinton and WMD. I guess he was the first liar in charge, before George Bush. Did he have bad intell? HaHa

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0f5u_0ytUs

    • May 31, 2013 at 12:18 pm
      Agent says:
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      Good one Sergeant. I loved how he kept biting his lip while he pontificated on Saddam and WMD’s and his determination to keep Saddam from developing WMD’s and allowing inspectors in. Clinton was a man of action. He bombed an aspirin factory in Sudan and lobbed a few cruise missiles into Afghanistan and blew up some jungle jims. Meanwhile, we had the first World Trade Center bombing, the embassy bombings in Kenya, the Kobar Towers bombing in Saudia Arabia, the USS Cole in Yemen, all under his watch. Did you notice that he kept wagging the same finger at the camera that he used when he denied having sex with that intern? Clinton was the master liar in chief.

    • May 31, 2013 at 1:22 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Clinton didn’t go to war or cause thousands of American soldier deaths from the bad intel. But that didn’t stop Bush/Cheney from blundering into it because it suited their hidden agenda.

      • May 31, 2013 at 1:47 pm
        FFa says:
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        Unnecessary war? How many radical nut jobs are occupied off American Soil? How many more of them suicide attackes would have been on your back yard?
        Know any one that suffered a loss on 9/11? do you think them people think the war was unncessary?
        Maybe if Billy Boy would have took action, 9/11 would not have happened.

        • May 31, 2013 at 2:17 pm
          Celtica says:
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          FFA — nice try in blaming 9-11 on Clinton but this is all on Bush’s watch.

          Bush took NO action when informed on Aug. 6, 2001 of Bin Laden’s intent to strike inside the U.S. Didn’t lift one finger. Not one finger. Besides, Condi Rice could not envision what happened on 9-11 happening. Hollywood movies could but not Condi Rice.

          But Bush went all out to go after Saddam Hussein which made no sense whatsoever. And lost interest in looking for Bin Laden less than 6 months after 9-11.

          All on Bush’s watch — and don’t think the American public will forget that. Ever.

          • May 31, 2013 at 3:39 pm
            FFA says:
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            I do not blame 9/11 on ANYONE. Your right – NO ONE could imaging what happened happening. Too many maybes -if thens- what abouts to sit and ponder.

            My only point on that post was I do not believe this war is unnecessary. I believe our boys are keeping the nuts off American soil.

            Why did Busch have a hard on with Sadam??? Could it be because Sadam had a bounty on his dads head???

            Maybe if Moses didnt invade the Promised Land, the whole world would love each other!!!!

      • May 31, 2013 at 3:08 pm
        Agent says:
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        Clinton sat on his butt and did nothing and hundreds of soldiers and citizens died in the Kobar Towers, USS Cole, Kenyan Emabassy bombings. You would rather a President do nothing and be bombed constantly than take action to protect American lives. I seemed to remember that the US was not hit the remainder of GW’s term. Everytime we get hit now, we musn’t jump to conclusions, read them their rights, can’t interrogate them if they are still alive.

        • May 31, 2013 at 4:05 pm
          FFA says:
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          I had a family member on the USS COLE. Shipped out state side just hours before the blast. He does not consider himself lucky he got out before the blast. He seemed pissed that the transport pilot did not turn around and bring him back.

        • June 5, 2013 at 11:43 am
          Agent says:
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          Actually FFA, if you research Bible history, Moses was not allowed to enter the promised land and God called him home. That was left to Joshua. Joshua was a very good commander, but disobeyed God and didn’t wipe out the Palestinians, but let them live, intermarry with them and the rest is history. 2,000+ years later, they are still going at it with no end in sight.

          • June 5, 2013 at 3:07 pm
            FFA says:
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            Been a while since Catholic Grade School. Been a while for me in any church.
            Maybe its time for me to turn back to the church.

          • June 10, 2013 at 3:25 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, It wouldn’t be a bad idea for this country to turn back to the church. The secular movement in this country thinks they have all the answers and they don’t. I truly believe we are living in the end of times. All the signs are there with conflict all over the globe. Our nation is divided and we don’t have wise leaders in any level of government so it keeps getting worse and worse. All it will take is one big misjudgement and Armageddon will begin and the world will be totally on fire. Not a happy prospect, but prepare yourself and your family.

          • June 11, 2013 at 8:42 am
            Libby says:
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            Agent – Now I know you’ve gone off the deep end. Just how do you “prepare yourself and your family” from Armageddon and the world being totally on fire? The end of days! OMG.

      • May 31, 2013 at 7:20 pm
        Sargeant Major says:
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        Agent Said -I loved how he kept biting his lip while he pontificated on Saddam and WMD’s and his determination to keep Saddam from developing WMD’s and allowing inspectors in. Clinton was a man of action.

        Agent, he was a man of action all right. Do you suppose he was biting his lip because Monica was hiding under the podium?

        • June 13, 2013 at 3:09 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, If you believe any part of the bible, I suggest you read the book of Revelations. Your attitude is the same as the people in the world around Noah’s time. They were all over him as he was building the Ark, mocking him and calling him a fool. Oops, it started raining and didn’t stop and he and his family and all the animals they could find were all that was saved. Do you remember the story of Sodom & Gomorah. Wickedness in that city eventually resulted in God completely destroying it by fire. If you are so secular and don’t believe in Bible prophecy, disregard this post and don’t bother responding.

        • June 13, 2013 at 5:40 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hey Sargeant. I read a story put out by the Washington Post today, hardly a conservative paper that Obama and family are taking an African Vacation later this month. Clark Griswold would really be envious. In this time of Sequestration, it is hard to visualize spending $60-100 Million on this trip to 3 African countries. Several hundred Secret Service, transporting 56 vehicles on cargo planes, transporting bullet proof glass to put on hotel windows, parking an aircraft carrier off the coast and flying air cover for AF1. Wow, our Imperial President goes in style doesn’t he and then says we have to sacrifice under Sequester. I wonder if he will stop by and see his half brother in Kenya who is living in squalor. Probably not.

          • June 14, 2013 at 10:36 am
            Libby says:
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            It’s a Presidential visit – not a vacation moron.

            “At the end of June, Mr. Obama and his family will take an eight-day trip to sub-Saharan Africa, making stops in Senegal, Tanzania, and South Africa in the name of reinforcing U.S. commitment to forging strong relationships with emerging democracies in the region. The president will hold meetings with “a wide array of leaders from government, business, and civil society, including youth,” according to a White House press release announcing the trip, and seek to “underscore the [his administration’s] commitment to broadening and deepening cooperation between the United States and the people of sub-Saharan Africa to advance regional and global peace and prosperity.”

            And furthermore, those who criticize the cost of Obama’s vacations don’t want you to know that George W. Bush spent at least $20 million taxpayer dollars just on flights to his ranch in Crawford.

            The right wing has been outraged at the four million dollar plus price tag for Obama’s family Christmas vacation, and they constantly hold George W. Bush up as an example of how thrifty a president should be when going on vacation.

            The problem is that W. wasn’t thrifty. He was the most expensive vacation president in US history. Not only did Bush spend more days on vacation than any other president, but he used Air Force One more often while on vacation than any other president.

            Bush’s numbers only include the cost of flying the president to Crawford. The cost of transporting and accommodating staff, media, friends and family is not included in Bush’s vacation numbers.

            You are almost demonic in your exaggerations and downright lies when it comes to anything Obama.

      • June 6, 2013 at 10:54 am
        Patti Cake in the East says:
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        No. Clinton just allowed our American soldiers to be killed by terrorists without doing anything about it. Another POS.

        • June 6, 2013 at 8:13 pm
          Celtica says:
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          Bush
          9-11
          Didn’t lift a finger
          No longer interested in finding Laden.

          Go figure.

        • June 7, 2013 at 10:34 am
          Libby says:
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          Patti Cake in the East says: Clinton just allowed our American soldiers to be killed by terrorists without doing anything about it.

          WTF are you talking about? What was he supposed to do? Who was he supposed to go after? Was he supposed to do this single-handedly or involve more US troops in dangerous combat? I guess you expected him to fight terrorists (who have been around since the beginning of time) with terror. You’re an idiot.

          • June 10, 2013 at 3:59 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Libby, you are saying that Slick Willy didn’t have any intelligence services like the CIA, NIA, MI5 and Mossad from Israel to draw on to see who the bad actors were that were trying to kill us. He had all those facilities and chose not to act. Wait, he did act by blowing up an aspirin factory in Sudan and sending a cruise missile in to blow up an abandoned training site for Al Quida. These people had been identified for a long time, and his administration sat on their butt.

  • May 31, 2013 at 11:31 am
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Libby,

    Another informed Bill Clinton clip

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiIyy0hgg-M

  • May 31, 2013 at 12:01 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Libby;

    Let’s not forget about Hillary who voted for the war. Then she defends her vote by saying she was misled. she was either stupid on lying about being misled or both.
    By the way she busts Chuck Hagel in this and now he is Obama’s Secretary of Defense. Idiots

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/13/hillary-clinton-defends-2_n_81261.html

    • May 31, 2013 at 12:49 pm
      Celtica says:
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      You, Sarg Major:

      If you will recall, it was considered unpatriotic to vote against that war. If you are honest, you will also recall that Bush and Cheney lied about the reason we went into Iraq. Not only were there no weapons of mass desctruction, Bush mocked those American soliders who died during the Press Correspondents dinner when he went looking for WMD under his desk and here and there in the Oval Office. Offensive and beyond the pall.

      Are you honest enough to admit it?

      • June 5, 2013 at 3:08 pm
        FFA says:
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        I though it would be common sense. I would have voted for it.

    • May 31, 2013 at 1:53 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Wait, wait, wait! You ding Hilary for being misled or lying or being stupid for a war that Bush started based on faulty intelligence — and you give Bush a pass when he was the commander in chief???

      I guess that is the major difference between the parties. You are simply incapable of holding any Republican accountable for anyting. And that’s why you lost in 2008 and 2012 and probably again in 2016.

      • May 31, 2013 at 2:55 pm
        draetish says:
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        Well Celtica I don’t see you holding Obama accountable for anything so where is the major difference? I guess you like being manipulated and lied too by this Adminstration. Hell, the Attorney General doesn’t even know what he is signing. Now there is a competent person. He needs to resign or get fired now along with Lerner for their incompetence, what a bunch of idiots and all their followers too!

        • May 31, 2013 at 3:22 pm
          Libby says:
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          I hold Obama accountable for getting us out of Iraq, improving our image abroad, passing healthcare reform, getting bin Laden, and preventing a depression. I also hold him accountable for lowering U.S. unemployment rates from 10+% in 2010 to 7.5% today.

          I do not hold him responsible for a random terrorist attack in Libya that killed four U.S. citizens. Especially since Ghadaffi was killed on his watch. It is a tragic event that those 4 people were killed, but hardly the breadth and scope of a massacre. They were in a very dangerous part of the world and knew the risks. And as someone astutely brought up above, if he had increased troops further in Libya all hell would have broken loose from the right.

          Hindsight is just that, hindsight.

          • June 6, 2013 at 10:56 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            So, the deaths of 4 Americans, who were left out to the wolves by our president and administration, is OK. And, you call Republicans hate mongers? You must have ice water going through your veins, Libby. But, hey…it was hardly a massacre.

          • June 7, 2013 at 8:53 am
            Libby says:
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            Question: What do you call leading 4,486 men and women directly TO the wolves?

            Answer: A massacre

      • May 31, 2013 at 2:59 pm
        Libby says:
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        Hallalujah, Celtica. WE WERE ALL MISLED, Sarge. All of us except for two – Bush and Cheney. The maestros pulling the strings. You can try to re-write history, but it won’t fly. Again, if Benghazi and some loose-cannon IRS agents is all you got on Obama, you got nuttin’. Now, please, go pound sand.

      • May 31, 2013 at 3:48 pm
        FFA says:
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        Bush did not start this war, the nut jobs that flew the planes into out buildings started it.

        I typically dont get offerded or pissed about anything on this forum. I do respect your right to have your opinion.

        Any one blaiming any American for this war just pisses me off. Radical Muslims started this. Not Busch. Not Clinton. Not Reagan, Carter any any other President or Harry Carey or any other true blue American.

        Begining to see a picture of you line of thinking – the problems of your world are someone else fault – right?

        I’ll break from my norm and call anyone a dumb ass if they believe that someone other then the radical nut jobs started this.

        • May 31, 2013 at 4:03 pm
          Libby says:
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          The radical nut jobs were nowhere near Iraq, FFA. So call someone else a dumbass. Maybe Dubya for starters…

          • May 31, 2013 at 4:19 pm
            FFA says:
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            I know they wernt. There are pictures of them flying the planes into our buildings. I woke up just in time to see the second plane fly in on the news.

            I am not far from OHare. Planes flying over our head about every 5 – 10 mins. Very errie that day. A normal noise in my world was gone.

            Speaking of GWB being a dumb ass, did you catch Letterman the other night? Good stuff!

          • May 31, 2013 at 4:59 pm
            Libby says:
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            The radical nut jobs, ie. Al Qaeda, were not in Iraq, FFA. We went to war with Iraq for no good reason. That is what I’m upset about. I do not blame Bush for 9/11, I blame him for the unnecessary deaths of thousands of American troops in a war we had no business starting.

        • May 31, 2013 at 5:27 pm
          Agent says:
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          My what a lovely debate we are having on numerous issues other than the subject matter of this IJ article. Libby may want to read the latest post of Forbes on California’s health premiums going up 46-164% depending on the age of the applicant. Oops! It seems the exchange guy in California was comparing apples to oranges and didn’t account for all the new regulations and taxes associated with Obamacare. So much for the Affordable Care Act being reasonable on cost. I guess we will all find out 1-1-14 how big a disaster it will be for all citizens to buy healthcare. I bet all those young people will just flock to the exchanges to pay double for their coverage.

        • June 3, 2013 at 4:33 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hey FFA. Bush was in office all of 9 months when 9/11 came down on us. Clinton had trashed all the White House computers when Bush came in and left GW with an inherited recession. There was no reason to think that radical Islam planned an attack on American soil since up to then, the attacks were at foreign facilities. I wonder what the Messiah would have done in the same circumstances.

          • June 3, 2013 at 5:01 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent – if you weren’t so busy trying to defend your Messiah and trash-talking the liberals, you would realize no-one here is blaming or has blamed Bush for 9/11. It did happen on his watch, but it could have happened at any tim. We are blaming him for his rush to invade Iraq and start a war for his own purposes.

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:25 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            You’re right, Libby. GWB is not to blame for 9/11 because Bill Clinton is.

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:40 pm
            Libby says:
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            It is now time to announce who is responsible for 9-11 and the other terrorist atrocities in the world. The responsible culprit is not Bush and not Clinton. It is the Islamic radicals who interpret their book, the Koran, literally. They are more serious than the so called “moderate muslims” about the instructions that Mohammed has given them. They wish to implement the Caliphate (successor to Mohammed) and rule it with Sharia Law. They tell us this. Their way is Jihad (Islamic Holy War).

            How about we place the blame where blame belongs?

          • June 6, 2013 at 10:59 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Libby says: “It is now time to announce who is responsible for 9-11 and the other terrorist atrocities in the world”…wow!! Can you also tell us the meaning of life?! Unbelievable!!

          • June 6, 2013 at 4:47 pm
            FFA says:
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            PC, should leave the explanation of the meaning of life to Monty Python. John Clese & Company do a good job of that.

          • June 7, 2013 at 8:56 am
            Libby says:
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            Well, PC, I had to explain to you who was responsible since you had the audacity to blame Bill Clinton.

            As for the meaning of life, don’t they teach that to you in Sunday school?

    • June 4, 2013 at 4:39 pm
      Libby says:
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      I almost had a coughing fit reading this article. It’s so old, it was all dusty and moldy. I think I have very eloquently presented by case on why so many Democrats voted for the war. In case you missed it, I’ll sum it up in 4 words. THEY WERE LIED TO.

      • June 5, 2013 at 1:27 pm
        Patti Cake in the East says:
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        Libby–what’s it like in your world? You know…the denial world? So, you’re saying the dems were lied to by the repubs and that is why they agreed to go to Iraq? That is laughable.

        • June 5, 2013 at 1:31 pm
          Libby says:
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          Can you read??? I said EVERYBODY was lied to by Bush and Cheney. And it’s hardly a laughing matter.

          Oh, and denial is a river in Egypt…

          • June 6, 2013 at 11:00 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Please. Save the humor for the people who actually know how to be humorous.

          • June 6, 2013 at 1:35 pm
            Libby says:
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            Other than Captain and a few others, there aren’t any others on this blog. You are one uptight chick.

          • June 14, 2013 at 5:22 pm
            Agent says:
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            Your only joke in 400 posts Libby. By the way, speaking of the Nile, the Muslim Brotherhood is planning to sabotage the damn being built in Ethiopia on the Nile to keep them from having the water. Part of the plan against any country not doing jihad including the US and Israel.

  • May 31, 2013 at 3:30 pm
    draetish says:
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    you make me laugh Libby, you’re so high and mighty and arrogant just like your party. Have a Great Day inspite of yourself.

    • May 31, 2013 at 4:01 pm
      Libby says:
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      draetish, I plan to have a good day but take issue with your characterization of me as high and mighty and arrogant. I see nothing arrogant about my posts. Any more than anyone else’s posts on here. You just happen to disagree with mine, so you find it necessary to insult me. But keep it up. At least I know you’re listening. Maybe the lightbulb will go off for you some day.

      • May 31, 2013 at 4:13 pm
        FFA says:
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        Would you consider your self opinion-aited? Your skull is as thick as mine. You not going to change my opinion. I am not going to change yours.

        We do agree on one point – we both love the USA!!!!

        • May 31, 2013 at 4:48 pm
          Libby says:
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          Of course I’m opinionated. And I may have a thick skull, but I will listen to both sides of a debate in a respectful discussion. Unfortunately, we rarely have those on IJ.

          • May 31, 2013 at 6:37 pm
            FFA says:
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            OBama Care is a hot button topic. People who have survived Govt Intrusion into private busines have cause for alarm.

            Your a trusting soul. I hope your right. I hope I am wrong. I have no faith in politicias – especially the ones from IL and in particular – Cook County. when Biden says “Trust Me” in his debate, I lost all faith in him too. Coocky Good Ole Boy.

            did you catch Letterman spoofing Busch the other night?

          • June 3, 2013 at 12:59 pm
            Libby says:
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            I can’t stay up late enough to watch Letterman, FFA. I’ll have to google it when I get time.

        • June 5, 2013 at 1:29 pm
          Patti Cake in the East says:
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          Only FFA…I believe you love this country more than Libby. Or, any other liberal like her.

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:59 pm
            Libby says:
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            You can call me all the names you want to, PC – but don’t you EVER question my patriotism. If you were across from me right now I’d slap you silly. You have now sunk far below the depths that I believed you, and all you right-wing bible-thumping hypocritcal and judgmental morons, could sink. YOU sicken ME, sister. Now it’s time for you to go pray for forgiveness for your despicable behavior. May God forgive you.

          • June 5, 2013 at 3:29 pm
            FFA says:
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            Yes, but I hate my state. Or maybe I don’t. Market getting harder, but business sis popping way beyond my wildest dreams. I hired a Part Time Producer on Monday. She already has three $10K + accounts moving through the system.
            She may force me to break the hard fast rule – no more full timers…. For a change in my life, a pleasant dilemma right after I get my wife to agree to start looking out of state…
            I cant seem to get away from Dilemmas!

          • June 5, 2013 at 3:50 pm
            Libby says:
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            Glad to hear things are looking up, FFA. I told you things would get better! Call me Pollyanna if you want, but the glass is always half full.

          • June 5, 2013 at 7:00 pm
            FFA says:
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            They had to get better. They could not get worse.
            Or could they? My New Land Lord came in late today.
            I a nut shell, I have to move. He is not going to force me out, but told me construction is going to be loud and messy. Impossible to conduct business when it gets going in full swing. So….

          • June 6, 2013 at 9:11 am
            Libby says:
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            So it’s a perfect time to pull up stakes and make a move, FFA! How exciting!

          • June 6, 2013 at 11:04 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Wow–now you’re resorting to violence, Libby? And, here I thought only Republicans acted that way At least…that’s what you liberals want us all to believe. I will question ANYONE’S patriotism when I believe that they are not looking out for the good and for what’s best for MY COUNTRY!! OBAMA is not good for our country, and neither is his liberal progressive agenda.

          • June 6, 2013 at 12:26 pm
            Ron says:
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            Patti,
            That is one of the biggest problems with OUR country now. It is not any one person’s country, period. The more we think like that, the less likely we are to solve our problems.

            There were many people who felt the same way about President Bush during his term and they were called anti-American and unpatriotic. Should we call you the same for being against our President now?

            Still waiting for at least one metric (data) to support your assertion things are 10 times worse now under President Obama.
            The only thing more annoying than someone asking the same question over and over again, is receiving no answer.

          • June 6, 2013 at 1:50 pm
            Libby says:
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            During times of war, hatred becomes quite respectable, even though it has to masquerade often under the guise of patriotism. – Howard Thurman

            You sound like you’re at war PC, because you’re full of hate. BTW didn’t you used to be CTAgent?

          • June 7, 2013 at 9:40 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            CTAgent? Not sure I know what you’re referring to? I do however, know that I am not full of hate. I LOVE my country more than I HATE this POS president and his agenda.

          • June 7, 2013 at 10:09 am
            Libby says:
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            Well, I love this country, too. And besides, who put you in charge of deciding what is or is not good for this country? That’s what makes it so great, we are free to agree to disagree. But it’s not cool to question my patriotism just because I don’t agree with you. Where I come from, them’s fightin’ words and yes, I would have to pull out a big can of red, white & blue whup-ass on you.

    • May 31, 2013 at 5:29 pm
      Agent says:
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      draetish, let’s cut Libby some slack. She is just in love with the high and mighty and arrogant administration and all their misdeeds and is merely following like a lemming into the pit of oblivion.

  • May 31, 2013 at 4:13 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Consumer confidence up to highest level in nearly 6 years. Stock market has hit all time high. Housing prices are back on the rise. New businesses are popping up everywhere around me. My company just hired 3 employees who started nearly a month ago, have 2 more slated for 2 weeks, and more 2 more openings to be filled. We outgrew our space this year and had to allocate space elsewhere in our building. Must be that Socialist in The White House. Thank you, President Obama.

    • May 31, 2013 at 4:24 pm
      FFA says:
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      Its all the people moving out of IL. Chatting up the wife about that property I eye balled last week or so. She just got some bug up her but about Iowa. Racine? Kenosa? Beloit maybe on the radar?

      no matter – she finally acknowledged its time to get out!

      Iowa seems to be having better job growth then does WI. so, Im gonna work on that bug some more.

    • May 31, 2013 at 4:46 pm
      Libby says:
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      My company has hired 5 people in the last 2 months and there are still more slots to fill. Payrolls and revenues are up, including rates, so commissions are up. More spending going on and things are looking up for a change. Yes, let’s impeach Obama for God’s sake! He’s done a terrible job. 4 people were killed in Benghazi and a few loose-cannon IRS agents with a tea-party hard-on did their job and investigated. Wow! He’s out of control!

      • May 31, 2013 at 5:16 pm
        draetish says:
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        Libby you will never see any other side than yours. I only wish it was the way you put it, but it’s not. You insult people all day long with your Leftist Arrogance and hatred toward Bush. FYI, Obama will never be impeached because he is the first african american president, duh!

        • June 3, 2013 at 9:39 am
          Libby says:
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          draetish – I have yet to see you embrace any side other than your own. If my leftist hatred towards Bush insults you, I suggest you grow a thicker skin or maybe a couple of balls. Your right-wing elitist attitude is as disgusting to me, as my leftist attitude is to you. And Obama will not be impeached because he has done nothing worthy of being impeached.

        • June 3, 2013 at 5:39 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hey draetish, We now have another scandal from the IRS. It seems they have been having a few conferences for $50 Million at taxpayer expense. I saw a video of them line dancing at an expensive hotel with room rates up to $1,500 a night. These bureaucrats are having a grand old time while they are targeting conservative groups and small businesses with a different view on government. Compare it with the GSA. Deja View all over again to quote Yogi Berra.

          • June 4, 2013 at 10:02 am
            Libby says:
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            Another example of keeping your own side of the street clean before criticizing another’s:

            Two cases stand out amid claims that the Bush administration, too, used the IRS as a political hit squad.

            In a throwback to the Nixon era, the Bush administration appears to have targeted the All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, Calif., for criticism of President Bush on the eve of the 2004 election. In a case that drew congressional attention, the IRS threatened to revoke the church’s tax-exempt status after the Rev. George Regas, the rector at the time, told the congregation that Jesus would have called the Bush doctrine of preemptive war “a failed doctrine.”

            Rep. Adam Schiff (D) of California called for an investigation of the IRS’s intervention. “As you can well appreciate, the actions of the IRS in this matter will have a potentially chilling impact on protected First Amendment rights,” he said. After two years, the IRS closed its audit, but without changing the church’s nonprofit status.

            The Bush IRS also went after the NAACP in 2004, after then-chairman Julian Bond criticized Mr. Bush for being the first president to fail to address the group’s annual convention and called for his ouster. In its audit notice, the IRA said those statements constituted “improper political activity” for a group claiming nonprofit status. In a rare move, the NAACP went public with its complaints that the audit was politically motivated. After a two-year battle, the IRS dropped its case, and the NAACP kept its status.

            Hmmmm… ANOTHER Bush scandal???

          • June 13, 2013 at 3:22 pm
            Agent says:
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            Draetish, this story keeps getting better and better. The wonderful IRS went to one lavish retreat in Anaheim which cost us $4.1 million and cannot account for their expenses. This is the same IRS that rakes citizens and companies over the coals on an audit and makes them produce every receipt and expense or there is a huge fine. Just ball parking expenses is not good enough for me. I want an item by item accounting and if individuals got extra perks outside of business expenses, they should pay the taxes on it. Maybe they enjoyed some women of the evening like the State Dept has now been found doing.

  • May 31, 2013 at 7:04 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Celtica said- If you will recall, it was considered unpatriotic to vote against that war. If you are honest, you will also recall that Bush and Cheney lied about the reason we went into Iraq.

    Wow, I can see you must be a remedial reader with a lack of memory. First, if you believe it is unpatriotic to vote against a war then you believe that some Senate Democrats are unpatriotic? Here are the votes in the Senate for the war- Democrats for the war 29 including Hillary Clinton. Dems against- 21 Republicans- 48 for, 1 against. Lot of unpatriotic Democrats!

    As far as Bush and Cheney? They were looking at the same intelligence that the Senate looked at, the house looked at and Bill (I did not have sex with that women- Ms. Lewinski) Clinton had and talked about in the video above.

    • June 3, 2013 at 9:46 am
      Libby says:
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      Sarge said: “As far as Bush and Cheney? They were looking at the same intelligence that the Senate looked at, the house looked at and Bill (I did not have sex with that women- Ms. Lewinski) Clinton had and talked about in the video above.”

      Correction. They were looking at the same intelligence manufactured by Bush and Cheney for their own agenda – ie. invade Iraq.

      Even I saw the television footage where they claimed trucks were hauling out WMD’s by the truckload and I said “WTF? I don’t see anything!” That was just days before the “Shock and Awe.”

      • June 3, 2013 at 1:48 pm
        wvagt says:
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        Jay Rockefeller was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee at the time of the Iraq war – you really think that king of the left-wingers relied solely on Bush and Cheney for his intelligence information? You really think he didn’t confirm everything for himself?

        • June 3, 2013 at 2:03 pm
          Libby says:
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          In November 2005 during a TV interview, Rockefeller stated, “I took a trip […] in January 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course that had taken shape shortly after 9/11.”

          So, yes I do and it came straight from the horses mouth.

          • June 3, 2013 at 2:44 pm
            Celtica says:
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            Very true, Libby. Bush had his sights on Iraq right after 9-11. This is covered in detail by Bob Woodward in his book “Plan of Attack.”

            To not agree with Bush at his time was suspect and unpatriotic. Bush called in his chips and squandered the good will of a united USA and the world. That took some chutzpah on a huge Texas size scale. Bush called Saddam’s bluff and we all paid for it. But Iraq was never about 9-11.

  • May 31, 2013 at 7:13 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Celtica-
    let me also remind you of a little military action against Iraq that was ordered up by Bill Clinton in 1998. It was called Operation Desert Fox. What was Desert Fox? It was a 4 day bombing campaign on Iraq

    Clinton administration officials said the “aim of the mission was to “degrade” Iraq’s ability to MANUFACTURE AND USA WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION”.

    • May 31, 2013 at 7:48 pm
      Sargeant Major says:
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      That should be “use”

    • June 2, 2013 at 10:20 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Sarg Maj:

      Clinton bombed Iraq over 4 days, no American or British fatalities.
      Bush ordered up a war that lasted 10 years with thousands of American and British fatalities.

      Seems to me Clinton had the better plan which, I might add, included an exit plan: Fly over, drop bomb here, fly back home intact.

      No matter how you spiin 9-11 or Iraq or Afghanistan, it will always be attributed to Bush.

  • May 31, 2013 at 7:24 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Captain Planet said-Consumer confidence up to highest level in nearly 6 years

    Gee that is about the time Obama took office.

    • June 3, 2013 at 8:53 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      A little before, actually. President Bush was still in office, but thanks for trying out!

  • May 31, 2013 at 7:31 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    For those of you praising that well oiled machine of Medicare and Social Security in the posts above- read this:

    http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20130531/US-Social-Security-Medicare/

    Thanks Barry for taking $719 billion out of Medicare

    • June 4, 2013 at 4:47 pm
      Libby says:
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      I fail to see the point you were trying to make with this article when your own Orrin Hatch stated:

      “Reforming Medicare and Social Security is a national imperative that policymakers on both sides of the aisle and at the White House must embrace if we are going to protect those programs for our seniors and for future generations, while simultaneously bringing down our sky-high debt.”

      The article was more positive than negative. Or did you just read the headline?

      • June 4, 2013 at 6:20 pm
        Agent says:
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        Libby, Politicians have been saying the same thing over and over for 30 years on reforming Social Security & Medicare. No one has the courage to actually do it. Real reform would be to move it back into the Trust Fund it was set up in so the Federal Government cannot get their grubby hands on it to spend on useless social programs. Repeal the $717 Billion Obama will be taking from Medicare to fund Obamacare would be a good start. Let Obamacare stand on its own and see how it does with all those young people flocking in to pay their premiums to pay for all the PreX’s who want the free healthcare. Now that is real reform. By the way, Orin Hatch is a RINO who has gone along to get along. He is part of the problem, not the solution.

  • May 31, 2013 at 7:43 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Libby, referring to Bill Maher said- “He’s hilarious! You’re a fan, too?

    Libby, I found this clip absolutely hilarious. Look at Rachel Maddow’s face, looks like she smelled her grandma’s F*rt! LOL!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-nX5YsKHBQ

    • June 3, 2013 at 10:40 am
      Agent says:
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      Good one Sargeant. I like to refer poor Rachel as Madcow since she is a lunatic of the highest order. I think she has about 3 viewers on her program, Libby, Planet and Celtica.

      • June 3, 2013 at 10:56 am
        Libby says:
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        I don’t watch Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Fox News, or any other TV news station except for CNN and the nightly news. I don’t need media talking heads to tell me what I think.

        • June 3, 2013 at 11:21 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          I also do not watch MSNBC, CNN, Fox, or HLN. If my TVs are on at all, they either have a sporting event, a movie, or a kids’ show on them. Oh, and my wife likes Food Network. I don’t watch much TV at all. I guess I do check into “Breaking Bad” and “The Walking Dead” when they are on. Other than those shows, I’d rather be outside or at the gym.

          • June 3, 2013 at 12:17 pm
            Agent says:
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            My Planet, you are the happy camper not watching the real news of the day. The networks you mention are not the only ones on the air. You must be watching NBC, ABC or CBS and they haven’t reported any real news in years.

            On a lighter note, the Champions Tour played the Principal Group golf tournament in Des Moines last weekend. Did you make it out there to watch? It looked like a nice course with interesting holes. Those old guys can still play and put on a good show for the fans.

        • June 5, 2013 at 11:28 am
          Agent says:
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          Libby, You are one of the few that watch CNN since their ratings are in the toilet. They have changed out everyone at the top because they are barely beating MSNBC now. The former Cable News Network is only a shell of its former self. Where will you go for news when they close their doors? PBS? NPR? MSNBC?

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:28 pm
            Libby says:
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            From you, of course!

      • June 5, 2013 at 3:36 pm
        FFA says:
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        You get Madkow in TX?

        • June 5, 2013 at 7:01 pm
          FFA says:
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          Sorry, I meant to say Mankow.

        • June 10, 2013 at 9:37 am
          Agent says:
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          Yes, MSNBC is on Dish, not that I watch it. I have seen short clips of Madcow and it was so nauseating I had to immediately switch channels. She is so far out that the administration will probably give her an Ambassadorship. I would like to suggest Libya. After all, what possible difference could it make?

          • June 10, 2013 at 12:20 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent, you made a funny! I’m proud of you!

  • June 3, 2013 at 1:26 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Agent, I just don’t watch news except for local. I listen to my news on the radio throughout the day. I like a mix. I get my conspiratorial laughs with Glenn, the complete flip side with Stephanie Miller, Thom Hartmann, Sean Hannity on days I can stomach his annoying voice, and sometimes Savage. I also like NPR’s musical lineup at nights starting around 8. But, I can find those musical selections online, as well. Once Chris Bradshaw lands back on his feet and hits the radio waves, I’ll be tuning into him as well.

    Didn’t get to the Principal Classic. I ran in a 20K event on Saturday and on Sunday, my family had some other plans. I had to turn down free tickets, dangit. Wakonda Club is a nice course, old course. The greens are always in good shape. It’s tough to find a flat stance out there, have to keep your head down and make sure you aren’t lifting or dipping through the ball. It’s a good test and can humble you quickly if your head isn’t in the game. I like The Champions Tour, those are the guys I grew up watching.

    • June 3, 2013 at 2:53 pm
      Agent says:
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      The golf tournament only comes to town once a year Planet. How many running events are there around to go to? 20K??? You must have a lot of stamina. Around here, a 5K or 10K is more common. By the way, those Champions Tour guys have their name on their bag for a reason and they can golf their ball and deal with the up and down courses out there.

      • June 3, 2013 at 4:09 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        Yeah, I know, but this 20K is a race I run every year. It’s called Dam to Dam, this was my 12th consecutive year. It’s a streak I’m not willing to break until my knees do, if you know what I mean. It’s just a really nice event all the way around.

        Most years, I try to get to The Classic on the Sunday following the race. But, this year I had some plans with the family. Yes, those guys are good and can probably swing from their knees if they had to. I was just trying to put the course into perspective for you. I’ve played it a couple times. This was the first year they held the tournament at that course. I imagine some of the spectators didn’t have as easy of a time traversing that track as they did Glen Oaks (where it used to be held).

        • June 3, 2013 at 4:56 pm
          Agent says:
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          Traversing the hills should not be a problem to a 20K guy like you. Not so easy for the out of shape PreXers who want some of that free healtcare you like so well.

    • June 4, 2013 at 5:22 pm
      Agent says:
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      Wow, Planet. You listen to Michael Savage and haven’t gotten the message yet about Obama? Perhaps you just discount him like you do all other Conservative commentators. He makes Hannity and Beck look downright Progressive. He is a little over the top for me although he does makes some good points.

      • June 5, 2013 at 11:06 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        I realize Savage is putting on a show. He is an entertainer, just like Beck. It’s a very entertaining show. He used to be buddies with Alan Ginsberg (that gay poet!) and was a total hippie. He’s even talked about drinking wine in hot tubs with Ginsberg (dude loves his wine). He’s just found a nice niche in the conservative talk world and doesn’t have a filter. This equates to a decent pay check for Savage and there are plenty of listeners out there who don’t know Savage doesn’t actually believe half of what comes out of his mouth. He’s just throwing out red meat and it works.

        • June 5, 2013 at 11:23 am
          Agent says:
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          So are you saying you are a vegetarian Planet? Eat your Broccoli and Peas like the President and his wife says and you will be a good candidate for an Exchange policy at double the rate.

          • June 5, 2013 at 1:52 pm
            Libby says:
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            What ARE you talking about???

          • June 5, 2013 at 2:16 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Yeah, I’m with Libby, huh? Where did I say I was a vegetarian? I like vegetables, but that’s not all I eat. What are you talking about?

          • June 13, 2013 at 3:35 pm
            Agent says:
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            Planet, you said Savage was throwing out red meat and you don’t take him seriously. The opposite of red meat is vegetarian. Now do you get it or do I need to draw you a picture? Personally, I like a good steak along with my vegetables and salad. Our wuss President said we need to eat our peas and broccoli. Those are not high on my list.

          • June 14, 2013 at 10:49 am
            Libby says:
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            Well, I’m sure he’s going to outlive you by a country mile.

  • June 3, 2013 at 3:57 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Agent,/FFA

    This is hilarious. First,they all want information and facts Like old Ron and his metrics. So, if you quote fox news they say- “Right wing conservative media- no good”. Then you put up information from CNN and you get ether no comment or “I watch MSNBC or HLN etc. Then you put up information on MSNBC or Huffington post and you get- I don’t watch TV news at all because I don’t want media heads to tell me what I think”. Or “I watch the Local news only” Well what is the local station? I am sure we can find some facts for you. I will remember this on your next- give me some facts
    A real informed bunch and by the way Planet, thanks for trying!

    • June 3, 2013 at 4:09 pm
      Ron says:
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      Sarge,

      When has anyone even provide metrics when I have ased? I am an analytical thinker, not emotional. I need facts if you want to persuade me. In my experience, Republicans do not like to provide quantitative evidence to support their statements like “Obama is making things worse and destroying the economy.” It should be easy to provide facts showing like unemployment numbers, stock market, inflation, housing market, etc. Unfortunately those numbers indicate that things are not any worse, and in some cases improved since he took office. Especially if you give it some time for his policies to take efect. Let’s say the amount of time President Bush had to stop the terrorist attacks on 9/11. Show me the data from 9/11/2009 to today and how much worse it is.
      If you read my posts you will notice that I have never said that Fox News is no good. I usually utilize them as a source to support some of my arguments so Republicans cannot blame me for using Huffington Post, Move-On or any other left-wing source. I do not even go to those sites.

    • June 3, 2013 at 4:42 pm
      Agent says:
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      Good one Sargeant. Now that we know that Planet doesn’t pay any attention to the networks and the real news, we can discount his posts because he is watching cartoons with his kids or running his 20K races. Local news is no source for the real news since it is local to the community. I would imagine they did report 9/11 since it was a feed from the networks. They typically do not report much else but the local weather and sports or local human interest stories.

      • June 4, 2013 at 8:57 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        News flash – you don’t have to get news from television. There are other media sources, you know. Like reading and listening to the radio. I get my news throughout the day at work. I have more productive activities to do once I get home than sit on my butt and watch TV. I watch local news for local stories and weather, yes. No need to watch the cable news programs, they all are horrible, from the little I’ve seen.

      • June 4, 2013 at 9:43 am
        Libby says:
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        Agent, you discount everything we say anyway so it doesn’t matter. Not only do you discount us, you censor us as well. I wish I had $1 for every post of mine that has been hidden because of your incessant disliking of each and every one of them. Even when I post something that is not political or controversial, you thumb me down. It’s really pathetic. I guess you don’t believe in freedom of speech anymore than Obama does…

      • June 4, 2013 at 2:53 pm
        Ron says:
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        Agent,
        Way to criticize Captaion Planet for keeping healthy and spending time with his chidren. He is only trying to keep health care premiums down for the rest of us and has family values. Only a Republican can find faults in those things.

  • June 4, 2013 at 12:02 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    So Libby, you don’t watch television or is it just television news?
    If that is so then what do you call watching Bill Maher? His entire show is dedicated to political news and topics with invited liberal hacks like Rachel Maddow. You have to admit that clip I posted was Hilarious!

    You said above that he was hilarious and you were a fan. So did you lie about watching the news or just television?

    • June 4, 2013 at 1:14 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Not to speak for her, but I don’t recall Libby saying she didn’t watch TV news. That was me and I don’t. I think she said she watches CNN. From what I understand about Bill Maher (as it’s been described to me), it’s comedy entertainment with a political spin. I don’t think it’s supposed to be a news show. Then again, I’ve never seen it so I don’t know for certain. Isn’t it on a premium channel?

      • June 4, 2013 at 2:29 pm
        Libby says:
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        Captain, you should check out Totally Biased with W. Kamau Bell on FX. Funny, funny stuff.

        • June 6, 2013 at 8:47 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          I will have to check that out, thanks for the suggestion, Libby.

      • June 7, 2013 at 5:43 pm
        Agent says:
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        Yes Planet, she said she does watch CNN. She is one of the few and proud that watch them. Their ratings are barely above MSNBC and they had a total shake up from the President of the network on down. It has been a precipitous fall from grace from the past when they were a leader in cable news. Something they have been doing just hasn’t resonated with the American people I would expect. By the way, I don’t take HBO primarily because they show Maher all the time, but I have seen a few clips of him and even he is saying the rich are paying more than their fair share. He said that to Rachel Madcow on his program. You should have seen her face. It was priceless.

    • June 4, 2013 at 1:27 pm
      Libby says:
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      Right on, Captain. It’s on HBO, which I don’t get. But my mother and sister are big fans so I have seen it when I visit them in Denver. I also saw the movie Religulous. That was interesting. I probably watch too much TV, but I do not sit in front of the news stations 24/7. I prefer to spend my time with friends (some are conservatives and we have lively debates that are very respectful) laughing, eating, drinking too much, and enjoying life. After all, it’s way too short.

      • June 5, 2013 at 8:00 am
        jw says:
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        I’ve been meaning to ask you if it’s worth it to argue with SGM and Agent and all the others in the IJ comments. Discussing with friends is fun, but this forum is getting hostile.

        • June 5, 2013 at 8:47 am
          Libby says:
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          I have to admit it does lighten up some otherwise dull days here at the office. It can be comical to see them all riled up and foaming at the mouth. I tend more towards sarcasm than hostility, but I won’t be intimidated either. It’s eye-opening for me to see there are people out there that are soooo out there, if you know what I mean. I do hold out hope that I can quell the bigotry and homophobia coming from that side. That’s my biggest goal.

        • June 5, 2013 at 7:06 pm
          FFA says:
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          No matter the forum, when you get people passionate about their beliefs and they are in direct conflict with each other, well you can tell.

          In a different forum, two of our female debaters were calling each other the C word.

          • June 6, 2013 at 9:15 am
            Libby says:
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            Not one of my proudest moments, FFA…

          • June 6, 2013 at 3:55 pm
            FFa says:
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            Nor hers I would imagine.

          • June 7, 2013 at 5:36 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey FFA, we have seen what happens when people like Libby and Celtica try to justify their beliefs.

            I think the problem with Libby is that she alleges that she is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That is like trying to mix oil and water. Socially liberal people are for every big spending entitlement program that comes down the pike which is the antithesis of being fiscally conservative and is the very reason why this country has a $17 Trillion debt which is growing by $1.4 Trillion each year. Obamacare is only part of the program. They don’t think there is anything wrong with robbing Medicare of $717 Billion as long as their PreX’s get their free healtcare. Libby is conflicted because of her beliefs and it shows with every post she makes.

          • June 10, 2013 at 8:55 am
            Libby says:
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            I’m not conflicted, Agent. I’m very sure of my beliefs. Just as you are in yours. They are in conflict, not me.

          • June 10, 2013 at 12:21 pm
            Libby says:
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            Our beliefs are in conflict, that’s what I meant that to mean.

  • June 4, 2013 at 12:07 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Libby said- “I wish I had $1 for every post of mine that has been hidden because of your incessant disliking”

    First, maybe people don’t agree with your position and

    Libby- If you had that money what would you buy, disability insurance or contraceptives? What do you think is more important for the primary wage earner to have for a family with kids?

    • June 4, 2013 at 1:30 pm
      Libby says:
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      First, I am way past the age of needing birth control, but thank you for the compliment and I already have disability insurance. I would probably blow it on a trip to Europe or something fun. After all, you and Agent would be paying.

  • June 4, 2013 at 3:51 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Well, your the typical liberal then. Take the money and blow it. Then when you need something you expect the government to pay for it or force business to pay for it. Gee, just like Obamacare!

    • June 4, 2013 at 3:54 pm
      Libby says:
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      You don’t know me or anything about my finances, Sarge. The only reason I would blow it is because it was coming from you and Agent and I know how much you love your green.

    • June 4, 2013 at 4:11 pm
      Agent says:
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      Well Sarge, I sure wish I had some of that $50Million IRS blew on conferences at 5 star hotels with room rates up to $1,500 a night. They took their cue from the wonderful GSA who is supposed to monitor budgets of all the departments and agencies. Gee, we were in the wrong line of business all this time. When the money is not yours, it is easy to blow it on the taxpayers dime. A taxpayers revolt is what has been needed for many years on how this dysfunctional government has been operating. They have never heard of Gotomeeting.com to conference between offices. Why do that when you can schedule a couple of thousand employees into a resort hotel and do line dancing on the stage while planning to go after Conservative groups?

      • June 7, 2013 at 1:08 pm
        Agent says:
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        Sarge, It is interesting that now the IRS employees are guilty of tax evasion for all the perks they received on their lavish junkets. Training meetings need to be just that, not a huge spending party as they were doing. I hardly think $1,500 a night rooms, partying and entertainment qualifies and these employees need to be taxed for it just like private business is. They could have had a Gotomeeting webinar if all they were doing was training employees, but chose to waste taxpayer money on them.

        • June 7, 2013 at 3:38 pm
          Libby says:
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          I think that may be stretching things a bit. Haven’t you ever attended a carrier function or other type of professional convention where there are dinners, golf outings, meetings, and other activities? I’ve never reported those things as income and they have never been included on my W-2 or a 1099. What about Christmas gifts from carriers? Are those to be reported as income? I totally agree that the spending was way out of control on the conference and there should be consequences for that, but I don’t think the employees are guilty of tax evasion.

          Any tax experts out there that can comment?

    • June 4, 2013 at 4:20 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Sez Sarg Maj: Well, your the typical liberal then. Take the money and blow it. Then when you need something you expect the government to pay for it or force business to pay for it. Gee, just like Obamacare!

      I’d rather blow the money on Europe too – but only if you contribute to Obamacare as I did when paying and paying and paying for the Bush War tab. Imagine paying to build another nation at the expense of our own nation. But that was Bush fer ya.

      • June 4, 2013 at 4:29 pm
        Libby says:
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        Well, I guess when you blow it up it’s only nice to re-build it. I’ll have to ask Patti Cake if that’s what Jesus would do.

        • June 4, 2013 at 6:53 pm
          Celtica says:
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          Dear Libby:

          Maybe Patti Cakes would tell us what Jesus would do when a bleeding child ends up in the emergency room without any family medical insurance. Would Jesus close the door in his/her face? I think not.

          • June 4, 2013 at 11:25 pm
            Sargeant Major says:
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            Well Celtica

            I will tell you what would happen with a bleeding child in the emergency room because my wife works in a hospital. The hospital would treat the child just like any other child, medical insurance or not. By law the hospital can’t refuse to treat anyone. Then they would file to Medicaid if they were on Medicaid and if they had no insurance and no Medicaid ( like a lot of illegal aliens) they would try to set up payments even as low as five or ten dollars a month. Yes, that is true. If the family could prove a hardship no money can’t pay or gone can’t find (like illegal aliens who leave town to avoid paying anything) then they would write the cost off as bad debt. Maybe some of those people would have some money if they did not spend it on Tattoos, cigarettes, booze, dope, tennis shoes, iphones, jewelry and gold teeth.
            Wow, you are one uninformed lib.

          • June 5, 2013 at 9:06 am
            Libby says:
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            What do you mean illegal aliens don’t have Medicare? I thought we spent billions of dollars on social welfare for illegals in this country. That’s what you said before, but now your tune changes to suit your agenda.

            Not all uninsured people spend their money on Tattoos, cigarettes, booze, dope, tennis shoes, iphones, jewelry and gold teeth.” The majority are actually working, but either not offered benefits or are underemployed.

            Wow, you are one Archie Bunker.

          • June 7, 2013 at 9:52 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            Oh, and Celtica…you are NOT the one to be talking about JC…Liberals believe in Planned Parenthood. I believe in Jesus Christ. You can’t have it both ways, babe.

          • June 7, 2013 at 10:13 am
            Libby says:
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            I don’t think you are qualified to know what JC thought anymore than anyone else. I seriously doubt he’d have a problem with women being responsible and taking birth control. Not my God, anyway.

        • June 7, 2013 at 9:51 am
          Patti Cake in the East says:
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          Libby…I love getting into people’s heads…I have apparently succeeded with you as well. I wasn’t included anywhere in this thread, yet you referred to me. The Jesus Christ part I don’t get though, since you are a liberal. Don’t you all want Him out of everything?

          • June 7, 2013 at 10:17 am
            Libby says:
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            You’re hardly in my head, PC. Otherwise I’d have a serious mental disorder. What does being a liberal have to do with believing in God? That only goes to prove my point of right-winger fanaticals like you being bigoted, judgmental and just plain ignorant. I DO know JC would not approve of that.

    • June 5, 2013 at 7:52 am
      jw says:
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      SGM – why would you assume Libby doesn’t already invest properly for the future? Why shouldn’t she use windfall money to do whatever she wanted?

      • June 5, 2013 at 9:53 am
        Libby says:
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        Exactly, jw. He assumes since I am a Democrat I don’t have a pot to piss in. Hate to disappoint you, Sarge. I not only pay my taxes, have a job, buy my own healthcare, don’t like tennis shoes, and have no gold teeth, but I’ve also got 3 IRA’s, a 401(k), next to no debt, and a little money in savings.

        • June 5, 2013 at 11:36 am
          jw says:
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          Exactly!

    • June 7, 2013 at 9:47 am
      Patti Cake in the East says:
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      I wish I could ‘thumb up’ you more than once on your comment, Sarge!!!!

  • June 4, 2013 at 11:13 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Celtica,
    Come on, the blame it on bush stuff is a little old after 5 and 1/2 years. Fact is Obama said a number of times that he would have the troops in Iraq home in 12 to 16 months. He did not do it. So I would guess the deaths from month 12 on should be his. He also escalated the war in Afghanistan and sent even more troops that are still there. That is on his shoulders. How many deaths is he responsible for in Afghanistan? He also helped start a war in Syria and help fund it. Now he is ready to send not only money but weapons directly and not through the back door like he has been. By the way, according to PBS 90,000 people have died in Syria. How many of those deaths is Obama responsible for?
    Let’s not forget Fast and Furious where Obama and Eric Holder sent US military weapons to drug dealers in Mexico who used them to kill a US border patrol agent. They also killed Mexican citizens who would not comply with them. How many Mexican citzens, who died because of those weapons should Obama be responsible for? Not to mention the 4 dead in Benghazi.
    So get off the blame it all on Bush.

    That administration wants to control of everything but responsible for nothing.

    • June 5, 2013 at 7:09 pm
      FFA says:
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      In my opinion, Sarge is right – Blame it on Bush or any one else for that matter.

      Blame game don’t work for my grand kids and here we have professional adults doing exactly what an 8 year old does….

      • June 7, 2013 at 11:23 am
        Agent says:
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        FFA, I was out yesterday taking a day with many friends to visit the Bush Library in Dallas. All privately funded and very nice. It has a twisted girder from the WTC in the middle of it. Most people just don’t realize what a tough situation he faced 9 months into office. He was working on the recession he inherited from Clinton and the economy was responding and then the Muslims attacked and the world changed for everyone. He had to respond to the challenge and did. I know the apologists would have preferred that the US just apologize and send them some money and try to make nice with those who want to kill us all, that that is not what our country is all about. Democrats and Republicans linked arms on the Capitol steps and were in voted to take action. Well, that didn’t last long and politics quickly got in the way and the criticism didn’t let up the remainder of his two terms. He finally got so beat up by the press and Pelosi & Reid, he succombed to signing anything put in front of him and that is one of his biggest failures allowing Progressives to dictate policy in this country.

        • June 7, 2013 at 11:52 am
          Ron says:
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          Agent,
          It is no surprise that a symbol of 9/11 is in the middle. That was the most presidential he was during his 8 years. I, along with nearly all Americans were with him and supported how he handle the attacks up until we discovered that invading Iraq was a mistake. One that he nor any Republican will admit.
          I remember Dick Cheney explaining why we didn’t go into Baghdad during Operation Desert Storm. “I think for us to get American military personnel involved in a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a quagmire,” Cheney replied. “Once we got to Baghdad, what would we do? Who would we put in power? What kind of government? Would it be a Sunni government, a Shia government, a Kurdish government? Would it be secular, along the lines of the Baath party, would it be fundamentalist Islamic? I do not think the United States wants to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept responsibility of trying to govern Iraq. I think it makes no sense at all.” Dick Cheney 2001
          Then he comes up with this one. “I think it will go relatively quickly. Weeks rather than months.”
          Dick Cheney, March 16, 2003
          Please explain what you think changed, in Iraq, for him to so drastically change his position? Consider that he was correct the first time.
          Clue:9/11 did not change anything about Iraq.
          As I have asserted in previous posts, unless he and Congress were actually fighting the terrorists overseas, they could have accomplished more domestically than just cutting taxes while we were in military conflicts, which had never occurred in the past, and the failed No Child Left Behind.
          this is why Independents do not like Republicans, they are one-trick ponies with no ability to multi-task or present ideas that may garner some Democratic support.

          • June 10, 2013 at 4:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            What about responding to Ron, Agent? Can’t fight those “facts” can you?

        • June 7, 2013 at 4:00 pm
          Libby says:
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          Cry me a river, Agent. Bush invading Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. That’s why he’s getting “beat up” over it. Not to mention his excessive spending and tax cuts bringing us to the brink of a depression. He was a miserable failure as a president.

          I don’t think Obama will be up in the top 10, but he has done a bang-up job compared to his predecessor.

          And I must correct your phrase “and then the Muslims attacked” to “and then the Islamic radicals attacked.” Let’s not resort to Islamophobia. You guys already have too many phobias.

          • June 7, 2013 at 5:24 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, the Bush Tax Cuts were implemented to recover the nation from the scandalous Clinton Administration and the inherited recession. Bush had no way of knowing that murderous Islam Jihadists were going to do 9/11 on this country. Obviously, military resources had to be committed to defend ourselves. Our intelligence agencies were not sharing information on threats back then. We created DHS to coordinate intelligence. I am not sure we do any better now than then since Terrorism is still striking and we have another giant bureaucracy that has taken even more resources and they seem to think Americans are the threat now judging from their actions. Tell me Libby, who has been attacking this country for the past 12 years? What persuasion are they? You are in complete denial about what is going on and who is behind it just like your precious administration.

          • June 10, 2013 at 8:47 am
            Libby says:
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            You are so great at making excuses and blaming someone else for your party’s mistakes and failures. I’d respect you so much more if you would, just once, take ownership and admit they were wrong.

    • June 6, 2013 at 7:40 am
      Ron says:
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      Sarge,
      Most people who bring up President Bush in these discussions are not blaming him, just showing that President Obama is not that different than past presidents. That are all flawed and make mistakes.
      The deficit under President Bush grew more than all other presidents combined and the same thing occurred during Reagan’s presidency, but only Obama gets ripped for having the same thing occur under his presidency. That is what bothers me. Republicans love to profess fiscal conservatism except when their guy is in office.
      Is it OK for Republicans to denegrate President Obama, but Democrats can not make comments about President Bush? What do you say to those who still blame 9/11 on President Clinton, cite the terrorist attacks on his watch, and how we were in a recession when President Bush took office?
      Same thing, right?

      • June 6, 2013 at 9:23 am
        Libby says:
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        Very well said, Ron. I couldn’t agree more.

      • June 6, 2013 at 5:56 pm
        Sargeant Major says:
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        Ron

        You are wrong. Here are the numbers by year according to the US Government.

        Obama Bush
        2014- $744 Bill*
        2013- $973 Bill*
        2012- $1,100 Trill
        2011- $1,300 Trill
        2010- $1,295 Trill
        2009- $1,000 Trill
        Total- $6.412 Trill for 6 years and 2 estimated.
        2009- $415 Bill**
        2008- $458 Bill
        2007- $161 Bill
        2006- $248 Bill
        2005- $319 Bill
        2004- $412 Bill
        2003- $378 Bill
        2002- $158 Bill
        2001- $128 Bill
        Total for 8.5 years incl. 09-$2,677 Trill
        * Estimated TBD
        ** Bush was assigned part of the 2009 deficit for 2009

        Sorry Ron but nice try. By the way Obama says “we don’t have a spending problem”

        • June 6, 2013 at 8:15 pm
          Celtica says:
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          You need to post the link to your source so that the numbers can be taken in context.

        • June 7, 2013 at 9:24 am
          Libby says:
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          Sarge – you are the one that is wrong here.

          Adding to the deficit: Bush vs. Obama
          Since President Obama became chief executive, the national debt has risen almost $5 trillion. But how much of that was because of policies passed by Obama, and how much was caused by the financial crisis, the continuation of past policies and other effects? For this analysis, we worked with the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities to attach a price tag to the legislation passed by Obama and his predecessor. George W. Bush’s major policies increased the debt by more than $5 trillion during his presidency. Obama has increased the debt by less than $1 trillion. Read related article.

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

          • June 12, 2013 at 10:21 pm
            Dave says:
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            It’s all based on Obama. His misguided stimulus bill, his anti-business policies including high taxes, oppressive regulations, hold up of the Keystone pipeline, wasting of billions on “green energy” subsidies in failed companies, his refusal to do anything about tort reform (gotta protect his ambulance chasing lawyer buddies), his refusal to make any significant cuts in spending, the list goes on and on.

    • June 11, 2013 at 5:49 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargeant, Isn’t it amazing that Libby and her joined at the hip mate Celtica are great at blaming Bush for the deaths in Iraq and have nothing to say about the thousands of soldier deaths in Afghanistan under Obama’s watch. As we remember, when Bush went in and cleaned out the Taliban after 9/11, there were very few deaths of our troops. Most of the deaths there have been under Obama’s watch from IED’s and the so called trained Afghans who keep shooting our soldiers with guns we have provided them. I sure wish we could see those Fast & Furious papers Holder squirreled away at the White House under Executive privilege. Holder is one of the many criminals running around in this administration.

      • June 12, 2013 at 9:06 am
        Libby says:
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        Again, Mr. Thick-Headed Agent Man, the reason we “blame” Bush for those deaths is because he:

        A) Lied to us about intelligence; and
        B) Falsely misled Congress into voting for a war in which there were no WMD’s (he knew this all along) and no Al Queda (which he also knew.)

        You keep mentioning U.N. sanctions. Yes, there were sanctions. So what? We’re talking about war here. HE LIED.

        Do you get it now why we blame him for those deaths???

        • June 12, 2013 at 10:16 pm
          Dave says:
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          Libby, your hatred for George Bush is now well documented. You have called for his execution. That being said, every word out of your mouth is now tainted, needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You read well from the writings of Saul Alinsky. Say a lie over and over and over again and to the gullible out there, it becomes the truth.

          Your lying statement:
          A) Lied to us about intelligence; and
          B) Falsely misled Congress into voting for a war in which there were no WMD’s (he knew this all along) and no Al Queda (which he also knew.)

          Where’s your proof. The intelligence of numerous countries (unfortunately bad) confirmed weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. George Bush did not lie about the intelligence the way Obama lied about Benghazi, he just repeated the bad intelligence which other countries outside of the US confirmed. You just keep lying based on your deep seated avowed hatred of Bush and I will keep pointing out your lies and craziness. Just what color is the sky in your world?

          • June 13, 2013 at 8:53 am
            Libby says:
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            I have no more “proof” of this (except for people coming forward now to tell their stories) than you do that Obama lied about Benghazi. This is exactly what I tried to point out to you in another post when you told Captain that “you’d have to be stupid not to think he knew about it.” It’s funny that it’s the “truth” when coming from you, but “lies” when coming from me. Who’s got the biased hatred here???

  • June 6, 2013 at 6:04 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Libby, read the post. I did not say illegals were on Medicare. I have always said they get Medicaid and there is emergency relief. Many of the illegals who have anchor children, so they have an anchor to the US, have Medicaid not Medicare and no they should be forbidden to have Medicaid or emergency assistance. If they want that they can go back to Mexico and get it from the Mexican government.
    Sorry no Archie Bunker here just an American that believes the US should take care of US citizens, people who need it as a leg up or temporary assistance until they can find employment or eliminate other hardship. I believe it should be assistance for the needy not a hammock for the lazy. That is the difference between you and me.
    By the way how long did you have to work to get that many thumbs down votes- LOL, you are an idiot

    • June 7, 2013 at 9:06 am
      Libby says:
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      I was as surprised as you by the number of thumbs down. That’s not my style, Sarge. I’ve got better things to do. But, as Captain says, thanks for trying out!

    • June 7, 2013 at 9:30 am
      Libby says:
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      Oh! And you are the idiot if you think illegal aliens are eligible for medicaid. They are not.

      Their AMERICAN born children are eligible, as they are AMERICAN citizens. So if you think the US should take care of US citizens, that is exactly what we are doing dufus.

      Quit your incessant bellyaching and bigotry. You are indeed an Archie Bunker – to the core.

  • June 10, 2013 at 3:09 pm
    FFA says:
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    Was just notified that Bond SafeGuard is moving out of IL. Heading to TN. <ore unemployment heading our way.

    • June 10, 2013 at 6:16 pm
      Agent says:
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      Tennessee is probably a lot more business friendly as are most of the red states. States like Illinois just don’t get it. They think business really should like being taxed and regulated to death. Political corruption and violence on the streets don’t help anything FFA.

      • June 10, 2013 at 6:31 pm
        FFA says:
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        I just don’t know what to do at this point. Wife agreeing to move out of state, business is flying high and mighty. Getting kicked out of my prime location. New producer just not stopping. Generating more paper work when she was supposed to be pushing mine. I’ve looked at three other office spaces. Turns out they are all in Foreclosure.

        • June 11, 2013 at 8:47 am
          Libby says:
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          I find it best when I don’t know what to do, to do nothing. The answer will come to you. It’s a God thing.

          • June 12, 2013 at 10:43 am
            FFA says:
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            Well Libby, I cant do nothing. Full scale tear down will be happening in August starting with the roof, stripping all the walls down to the flag stone and so on and so on. Every trade will be working in this building. Cant do business like that. Don’t want to get stuck in the same situation, different location.

            Only thing I know about the OBama Care premiums for sure is that cost will increase – Premiums or taxes don’t really matter. More $$ flowing out of my pocket. I know this because through the course of my life time, every time the govt sticks their nose in private business, cost goes up and corruption comes along with it.

            Who regulates the regulators? e do have a Cook County Politician running the show. Now part of the Daley Political Machine has thrown his name in the running for Gov of IL. GREAT!!!!! More Chicago politics in higher govt places….

            In the mean time, all the places I have looked at are on the verge of foreclosure / receivership. What a mess!!!!!

          • June 12, 2013 at 11:00 am
            Libby says:
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            Can you work from home? Or do one of those suite-sharing arrangements with someone that has extra space? Do you have a realtor helping you?

          • June 12, 2013 at 12:55 pm
            FFA says:
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            Working from home is not an option. I have 7 people living there. Just looked at a place where I could buy. 2nd floor nice apartment type set up. Ground floor would be office. If it were just me & the wife, it would be ideal, but its not.

        • June 11, 2013 at 10:48 am
          Agent says:
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          FFA, The Ohio Department of Insurance just announced that Individual Health Insurance rates would increase 88% as of 1-1-2014 under Obamacare. I am sure the libtards like Libby and Celtica will blame Bush for this. After all, they blame him for everything else. I ask again, what is affordable about the Affordable Care Act? I guess the folks there can apply for subsidies from Sebelius because they won’t be able to afford the premiums.

          • June 11, 2013 at 1:48 pm
            Libby says:
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            FFA – that statement is not true and is absolutely overstated, as usual from Agent. For what was REALLY said, read my post above.

          • June 11, 2013 at 5:05 pm
            Agent says:
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            So FFA, are you going to believe me or the goofy Libby. She didn’t bother to confirm the Ohio Department of Insurance announcement. I guess she thinks I am lying about it. It was an article and a direct quote about health insurance rates going up 88%. From what we see in the industry, this will be normal practice from many companies since they have seen the handwriting on the wall. By the way, she thinks the school principal buddy I have is lying to me about the school district premiums are escalating beyond reach for most teachers. They are in shock now.

          • June 12, 2013 at 8:56 am
            Libby says:
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            Agent – either you didn’t read my post or you are downright lying to FFA. May I re-post it below:

            Agent – why do I have to fact check everything you post? Because you go off half-cocked with information. Continually. What the Dept of Insurance announced was that there could be an 88% increase for SOME based on the rates submitted to date that HAVE NOT YET BEEN APPROVED. “Projected costs from the companies for providing coverage for the required [by Obamacare] essential health benefits ranged from $282.51 to $577.40 for individual health insurance plans.”

            The author further goes on to say “There is an important difference between these analyses and the one I conducted for California last week. Ohio has reported average premiums across the individual market, for everyone; for California, I looked at the lowest-priced individual-market plans for 25- and 40-year-old men, both pre- and post-Obamacare. We’ll need to go through Ohio’s individual rate filings, especially after they’ve been approved by the state, to get a more detailed sense of what is going on.”

            In other words, if a 50 year old Pre-Xer (as you like to call them) can get coverage for $577.40 – I think he will jump for joy. A healthy 30 year old may have to pay $282.51 or face the tax penalty. Hopefully that healthy 30 year old is working and will be eligible for benefits through his employer.

            YES – premium WILL go up for some. They will also go down, or become fiscally affordable, for others. Sorry. That’s how socialism works.

            So, in summary:

            – Just an indication
            – Based only on rates submitted to date
            – Rates not approved
            – Only an average across the state
            – Could be higher, could be lower depending
            – Libby not goofy

          • June 12, 2013 at 9:00 am
            Libby says:
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            And let me respond separately to the school health premium issue. This is also a post from yesterday with FACTS I found that were readily available:

            Here’s what I found about the HUGE increase for Austin teachers:

            “Austin ISD employees are bracing for a big raise in their insurance premiums, and the district is working to educate staff members on their options.

            AISD currently offers three tiers of insurance to its 12,000 employees. Two are free to the employees: PPO 2 is a standard health insurance package, while PPO 3 is a health savings account. However, around a third of all district employees choose PPO 1, which requires an employee contribution, and those staffers will see rates increase. In 2012, an employee on a 12-month contract, such as a teacher or administrator, paid $54 a month. For the 2013-14 school year, those staying on PPO 1 will pay $125 a month – up $71, or a 131% increase in their costs. Employees on nine-month contracts, such as bus drivers and catering staff, will be hit even harder: Because they pay for 12 months of coverage out of nine months of contributions, their payments leap up from $72 to $167. That’s a rise of $95 a month for some of the district’s poorest employees.”

            Here’s something on Westby, TX:

            “When the stars align perfectly good things happen.

            That was case for the Westby Area School District on April 19, when the administration learned that the school district will be able to cover the remaining projected $257,000 deficit for the 2013-14 school year, thanks to a 15-percent health insurance premium reduction from Gundersen Lutheran Healthcare effective July 1, 2013, plus money the district will save by not having to utilize money they had already built into the 2013-14 budget for projected health insurance premium benefit increases.”

            For the TRA (TX teachers state health insurance)Tier 2 premiums (75% of all members are in Tier 2) are going from $1,150 to $1,323 per month BEFORE STATE AND DISTRICT CONTRIBUTIONS. That is the gross cost. Not net to the employee. (BTW, their premiums went up 9.5% from 2010 to 2011.)

            Contrary to popular belief, I do my research. And if something doesn’t make sense to me ($1,800 per month for health insurance for teachers), it’s usually because it’s nonsense.

          • June 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm
            FFA says:
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            Agent, to answer your question, I am gong to believe that history will repeat itself – Govt Intrusion into private business will increase cost one way or another -Premiums or Taxes.

            I believe OBama care will prove to be a job killer. I believe that Libby & Planet among others will disagree with me. I pray to God I am wrong.

            I believe that the new mayor of my home town will push forward with the dumbest idea this town has ever seen – take a full city block and put a 5 story building on it on what would be a great down town park area. I believe that will only increase vacancy rate.
            I looked at some main st space ground level and found out I cant rent there because the city wants their sales tax revenue. Meanwhile – screw the property owner. Lets create more vacancy with this project. No new retail is moving in here. We are a bar town.

            I believe that Gov Quinn will continue to make IL the most unfriendly state and will continue to tax business right out of IL – See Bond Safeguard – among others. Read the writing on the wall at State Farm.

            I believe that Libby is hopeful that you and I are as wrong as can be on Obama Care killing jobs. I also believe that I will never catch a break on anything ever! Call me chicken little. It looks like the sky is falling!

            Meanwhile, my new producer is producing at a level I never imagined. Looking like my plan to never hire full time again is out the window. She is making it necessary to have her full time and hire another paper pusher. Looking like the best plan is no plan and just roll with it. I gave up my goal of $5M in premiums. Now, I am staring at it by year end 2014.

          • June 12, 2013 at 3:08 pm
            Libby says:
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            FFA – Why do you have to have to have Main St. office space? Do you get that much street traffic? Is your producer an inside production person? You are do depressed and down-in-the-dumps you can’t see any creative solution, but they are out there. I wish I knew the town you were in. It can’t be Chicago-proper because ground-level Main St. office space would be cost prohibitive. Get a realtor! Look on Craig’s List for co-officing opportunities. There are lots of small businesses that co-op office space with communal receptionist and conference areas. You need to ask for some help. You can’t see the forrest for the trees right now.

          • June 12, 2013 at 4:32 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, I don’t need Main St Address. I’ve been a Main St agent for 20 years. With the exception of last year, its been part of a winning combo. Last year really hurt. Quinn and his BS and then the spike in Health Insurance were my low lites.

            I do have two others in the building we are currently looking at shared space. They don’t need much, just a wall to hang their license on. Maybe a 10 x 10 room. I may see them once a week in here. I do have a realtor involved that just called me with a very interesting situation. This requires some long hard thought. It will determine many things about my future. Just need to noodle through them with my other half. She is not one much for change and this would be big.

            Realtor showed me a spot this AM that offered everything I want except a wide enough stair case to get my desks through. If not for that, I probably would have signed the lease. Good price. Stable ownership. 30″ stair case with a hard right turn.

            I am currently down to three possibilities. this other proposition the realtor shot me is very – very – very interesting.

            I wouldn’t say I am depressed – stressed? Hell yes, yes in deed! Depressed??? I went to see the Cubs game last night so… Dusty should still be in Chicago.

          • June 13, 2013 at 8:44 am
            Libby says:
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            Glad some options are coming your way. Things will work out the way they are supposed to. They always do…

  • June 12, 2013 at 10:47 am
    FFA says:
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    And another thing – I know someone with access to State Farm Management in home office. Rumor has it they are getting ready to ship a large chunk of home office staff to – yes you guessed it – Texas. ITS JUST A RUMOR. But why would the lease all the space they did just to leave it vacant???

    Quinn is about as big a fool as they get.

    • June 12, 2013 at 11:24 am
      Agent says:
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      FFA, there was an article out a while back about State Farm expanding to the Dallas suburbs with a huge regional office. Gee, I wonder why they would do that. Libby and others all say that Texas just creates menial jobs and has no other advantages for a company to locate here. No unions, no problem. No state income tax. Lower lease rates, a better regulatory climate and they are good to go. The question is how many HO employees will move on down. I would think a lot of them would jump at the chance given what is going on in Illinois.

      • June 12, 2013 at 12:06 pm
        Libby says:
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        I never said that about Texas. Others have, but not me. Don’t put words in my mouth.

        • June 12, 2013 at 3:47 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, I don’t have the old email postings when we got into a discussion on why Texas was creating more jobs than all the blue states combined, but I seem to remember you coming down on Texas and agreeing with other liberal bloggers who kept saying Texas only creating minimum wage jobs so that doesn’t count in the figures. The fact is that a lot of high paying jobs are being created in this state since it has a very good business environment. Companies have been moving here to get away from California and numerous other states. FFA says companies are moving out of the Chicago area since taxation, regulation are out of control. I believe him. They want to stay in business so they do whatever is necessary. Blue States had better wake up and realize they have a problem.

          • June 12, 2013 at 3:59 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent – I have no idea what kind of jobs are being created in Texas. I just said, I believe to Dave, that Texas was not my cup of tea and I would stay right where I was. And that was in regards to guns and Texas. I know you have no state income tax and your business climate is doing well. I just don’t have an urge to live there. But I have many close friends that do live there in Dallas, San Antonio, and Galvasten.

          • June 13, 2013 at 9:57 am
            Agent says:
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            So Libby, what do your close friends say about living in Texas? Are they itching to move to the Blue States for the union environment, higher cost of living, higher taxes etc? Personally, I have never met anyone who was transferred with an insurance company to Texas that ever wanted to move back north. I know it happens if they get a promotion to Home Office since many are in the N/E, but they don’t look forward to living up there.

          • June 13, 2013 at 10:29 am
            Libby says:
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            My friends are from Texas. Some I met in high school when our dads were in the service and one I met in Denver when her husband was transfered there from Texas. So Texas is home to them. I have visited often and have enjoyed myself, but more because I see my friends than the fact that I’m in Texas. They are all republicans, but we love each other any way.

          • June 13, 2013 at 10:31 am
            Libby says:
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            You know, it wasn’t too long ago that Texans were flocking to Colorado by the thousands. The gobbled up real estate and were pretty arrogant. That probably has a little bit to do with my disdain for the state.

    • June 12, 2013 at 11:28 am
      Agent says:
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      Libby, you make my point very well. Unfortunately, the examples you had were not the school district I am talking about. Huge increases for everyone with Obamacare. School Districts are just one example and they are scrambling to come up with the money to pay. I am sure the citizens will see a rise in school taxes and they are already very high to support the union benefit packages. Again, the citizens will have to ultimately bear the burden of this terrible legislation.

      • June 12, 2013 at 12:18 pm
        Libby says:
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        Whatever, Agent. I did not make your point. Your friend is probably in the TRA, as they insure the majority of school districts in the state. The cadillac, tier 3, program is going from $1,592 to $1,990 per family – but that is before the state and district contributions. That is the gross cost, not net to the employee. I do my research and it DID NOT support your allegations. Don’t believe me. Check it out yourself.

        http://www.trs.state.tx.us/trs_activecare/documents/ppo_rates_benefits_fy14.pdf

        • June 12, 2013 at 12:23 pm
          Libby says:
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          And that is no change in benefits or deductibles and is paid monthly (9 months for a teacher.)

          $1,592 x 9 = $14,328
          $1,990 x 9 = $17,910

          A 20% increase with no change in benefits or deductible. Way, way different than what you said. Likely, the net cost to your friend last year was in the $900 range after the state & district contributions and he’s looking at the gross cost this year and comparing apples and oranges. Maybe you ought to send him my way so I can explain it to him. After all, he’s only a SCHOOL PRINCIPAL. But it is a school in Texas, so I’ll cut him some slack.

          • June 12, 2013 at 12:25 pm
            Libby says:
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            And if he wants a cadillac plan, he has to pay for it. On a PRINCIPAL’S salary, not a TEACHER’S. Again, apples and oranges.

      • June 13, 2013 at 12:55 pm
        Agent says:
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        I really don’t think many Texans will be flocking to Colorado these days with their gun control legislation and pot smoking approval. In fact, a lot of hunters will be boycotting Colorado for hunting trips. My son in law and several of his friends used to make regular trips up there to Elk Hunt. They will just go elsewhere to hunt in the future. Colorado is a beautiful state and I love the Rockies. It is unfortunate that the radicals have seized power there and the good folks should do a recall election. I am sure the college kids in Boulder love the new pot smoking law. I can see the blue haze over the campus. I am sure they will learn a lot in their time there.

        • June 14, 2013 at 10:03 am
          Libby says:
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          Good riddance! We don’t need your kind in our beautiful state.



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