I used to work at FFIC and my thoughts and prayers go out to the great folks there. The constant leadership changes and constant band aids used to fix major issues were the ultimate demise of this company. There are a lot of very professional, intelligent, ambitious, and experienced middle management employees within that company that would be a great asset to any organization.
Other insurers would be wise to start reaching out to the Personal Insurance Product Managers over there. They did an excellent job turning that book of business around despite the many obstacles and bureaucracy they had to overcome to get there.
I guess you got out in the nick of time. I have seen very few large companies go away since I have been in business. It must have been quite a culture of incompetence on managements part. Hopefully, the good employees will be able to find work in the industry.
Agent, you are correct and I know those good employees with find work in the industry.
I did get out in the nick of time but I didn’t work on the Personal Insurance side. There has been a lot of misleading news articles/publications out there that Personal Insurance somehow was actually the area bringing down the company. They were actually the thriving successful portion of the company with a lot of younger and driven employees. Commercial numbers were terrible and weren’t going to get better unless they made the moves they’re making today with the transition to AGC&S. Long-term many of those commercial employees will be best served to move over to Allianz. It’s just unfortunate because it isn’t fair to the Personal Insurance employees, but business/life as we all know is not always fair. ACE would be wise to look on retaining the employees from that group.
The Allianz name is the 21st century commercial name and it was time to move forward. I’ll be curious to see which lines of insurance they keep on the commercial side when they transition over to Allianz. Commercial Product Middle level Management also has some great employees as well. They just couldn’t innovate their products like they would like to given the limitations of where the organization was as a whole.
You can disable the auto-correct; it’s more pain than help!
December 18, 2014 at 10:11 am
Marcus Temms says:
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The ivory tower in Novato has fallen. The same people in home office for the past 15+ years, hiding out, protecting their own kind, achieving nothing at all are the ones responsible for this. LF hired as President and it took her 2 years to drive 30 minutes to the companies largest office and when she did, she blamed the woes on the underwriters.
You just gotta love those leaders that publicly reprimand employee groups.
I am still smarting from a public reprimand from Farmers CEO Marty Feinstein at a “reward” Championship conference in Cancun in the 90’s. I never had respect for him after that. They obviously don’t follow the One Minute Manager who would never publicly reprimand someone.
We have seen several companies struggle and change direction and many known for mistreating agents. The list includes Allstate, Farmers, Nationwide. Allstate agents actually formed a guild (union) to deal with management. Many of these captive agents would really like to be independent, but can’t get appointments.
All the fault of the FFIC demise lies with the home office “ivory Tower”, the same people in Novato for the past 15+ years protecting their own jobs, making horrible decisions and pushing any blame onto the underwriters. Add that with the last 3 presidents that accomplished nothing, and used the position as a stepping stone.
I am a former employee and left in 2013. I went through 5 CEO’s in 7yrs so I knew something was brewing in the Horizon. Very glad someone stable has come along to purchase FF because it was a sinking ship with all the captains juming overboad and abandoning the passengers
Liz, I think all the CEO’s were re-arranging the deck chairs on the sinking ship. The worst one I remember was Mike LaRocca who was let go at Safeco for screwing around with Personal Lines. Then, we heard he was doing the same thing at FFund and he didn’t last long there either.
Fireman’s Fund could withstand the damage from the 1906 San Francisco earthquake but not the 20+ years of neglect and disappointment from the parent company. It takes a toll.
We have lots of process and lives in transition here in Novato and elsewhere. Once we run our business off of Fireman’s Fund paper, perhaps someone will see the value in buying our firehat brand image.
Two of the most iconic images in the industry were the Fireman’s Fund hat and the Travelers Umbrella. Travelers lost the ability to display their Umbrella when Citigroup acquired them. When they broke away, they got that Umbrella back.
Time and time again I see companies failing or holding on by their shoe strings because a college degree from an Ivy school does not make you a sales Guru. No offense, but have you ever met with a TSM? Well, the boss is worse as far as the mentality of sales accomplishments. They forget who the customer is…. The people buying the policy and the agents who sell it. The most important aspect of an insurance company is the two customer equation, there is no college degree except hard knocks for that accomplishment.
I would question the Board of Directors that kept hiring incompetent CEO’s who didn’t have what it took to turn the company around and make it profitable. Paula Reynolds wasn’t even in the insurance industry when Safeco hired her, but she quickly analyzed what ailed Safeco and started lopping heads off and the first one to go was LaRocca. Many say she was hired to prepare the company for sale. It must have worked because Liberty Mutual appeared on the scene to buy them and they are very profitable now and one of the bigger Independent agency Personal Lines companies.
FFIC was, at one time, a great place to work. The employees believed in the product & worked hard. The constant turnover of the top management took a major toll. Many excellent people left, myself among them, as the situation slid down the hill. The was little consistency with rules/processes changing almost daily. Team leaders moving around as though playing musical chairs. Those in charge requesting input from all employees, only to ignore their input. The stress level was unbelievable.
I feel sorry for those who will be most affected by this merger. I truly hope that this change will make their working lives easier.
There is a German word for one who takes delight in the misfortune of others — Schadenfreude. It is also called sour grapes. I bet your were part of the reason why Fireman’s failed.
Sorry Karma Carmen, but I can tell you for certain, The “Good Old Boy Network” including the German’s you seem to be so knowledgable about, are the ones who are to blame for the failure of The Fund. Since you are such an Expert on the Schadenfreude, I bet YOU have had plenty of experience with it yourself, haven’t you??!
Dear Moviebluff, does Carmen sound like a male name to you? Since the correct answer is no, then being female would automatically exclude me from any leadership position in the good old boy network.
Karma Carmen, your response to me and your response to moviebuff both sound like sourgrapes to me. You sound like a lower level cog in the wheel at The Fund who has yet to get a grip on the reality of what is going on around you. Better get your resume “fluffed up” before some “shadenfreude” hits you where it hurts girl! Happy hunting :)
December 23, 2014 at 3:55 pm
Karma Carmen says:
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Dear Karma lover, it appears you have a firm, death-like grip on the sour grapes. Sadly, you wish the employees harm. We are fully aware of what is happening but yet manage to act in a professional manner to handle the business at hand. I wish the same could be said of you — but will wish that you find it so that you, too, can have a wonderful life.
December 18, 2014 at 4:36 pm
rabidactuary says:
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This is what you get when you combine socialist Germans with Marin County Liberals. A truly dysfunctional organization that prioritized the politics of business decisions over results and had perverse incentives.
question, I have never represented Fireman’s Fund, but my experience with my other carriers who have Agri units is that they are in the Commercial side rather than Personal.
The Farm & Ranch Division, along with everything else that isn’t PI, has gone to AGCS. As a long-time employee of FFIC, who recently left, the placement of everything under the Allianz umbrella is the best thing in the world for both the policyholders and the agents. FFIC’s Ivory Tower in Novato fell years ago, but nobody told the management. :) Hate to see the Brand disappear, but not unhappy at all to see a company boiled down in management wars disappear. Gordon Gecko would have hacked them up years ago.
My father retired from FFIC almost 30 years ago as a commercial lines manager in the Atlanta branch. He started there right out of high school. Even then, he saw big changes in the way they treated their employees. Morale went from bad to worse. The number of agents representing FFIC dropped also.
The leadership of ACE’s high-end PL unit doesn’t have the ability to handle this acquisition. They barely handled the Atlantic Mutual project and that was a small regional player desparate for a life line. Leadership will make or break teams. The FFIC team has been deserate for leadership for years, they unfortunately will soon find that they have gone from bad to worse.
Agent is correct. Years of mismanagement will tend to make it go away. Lots of examples – old Kemper is one and the current Kemper is well on it’s way.
I worked at FFIC for a little over 6 years and had 2 management positions in that time-but I had no fewer than 6 different bosses during that time. It was crazy with each one having a different set of priorities. Several were FFIC vets, but others had been brought in with a mandate of one kind or the other. It didn’t seem to matter as RP’s, Regional Execs, Regional VPs’-regardless what the title was, they tended to have relatively short careers if they didn’t grow. Didn’t seem to matter if you were actually making money or not but just growth.
At the end of the day, that is what the germans wanted from FFIC as you just never heard much about profit from anyone in charge. I really enjoyed the people I worked with-including the execs, but think that the blame has to rest with Allianz on this one as they never seemd to care much about making money.
I worked for Fireman’s Fund in St. Louis Missouri for 31 years. Started in the file room, then went to typing in the claim’s service unit, then became a CSS and final a CA. Ended up being an adjuster in subrogation. They outsourced the entire subrogation department nationwide to Craig, a collection company. They gave it to them before and they lost it back to FFIC. This was very upsetting to all of us that they would give to them once again. They took it back from them once again also. IT was sad to hear the FFIC will no longer be. I started March 9th, 1971 and left March 9th 2001. I still miss working for them. It felt like home.
Years of mismanagement of a company will tend to make it go away.
I used to work at FFIC and my thoughts and prayers go out to the great folks there. The constant leadership changes and constant band aids used to fix major issues were the ultimate demise of this company. There are a lot of very professional, intelligent, ambitious, and experienced middle management employees within that company that would be a great asset to any organization.
Other insurers would be wise to start reaching out to the Personal Insurance Product Managers over there. They did an excellent job turning that book of business around despite the many obstacles and bureaucracy they had to overcome to get there.
I guess you got out in the nick of time. I have seen very few large companies go away since I have been in business. It must have been quite a culture of incompetence on managements part. Hopefully, the good employees will be able to find work in the industry.
Agent, you are correct and I know those good employees with find work in the industry.
I did get out in the nick of time but I didn’t work on the Personal Insurance side. There has been a lot of misleading news articles/publications out there that Personal Insurance somehow was actually the area bringing down the company. They were actually the thriving successful portion of the company with a lot of younger and driven employees. Commercial numbers were terrible and weren’t going to get better unless they made the moves they’re making today with the transition to AGC&S. Long-term many of those commercial employees will be best served to move over to Allianz. It’s just unfortunate because it isn’t fair to the Personal Insurance employees, but business/life as we all know is not always fair. ACE would be wise to look on retaining the employees from that group.
The Allianz name is the 21st century commercial name and it was time to move forward. I’ll be curious to see which lines of insurance they keep on the commercial side when they transition over to Allianz. Commercial Product Middle level Management also has some great employees as well. They just couldn’t innovate their products like they would like to given the limitations of where the organization was as a whole.
The autocorrect on my phone is killing me here. I swear I’m not illiterate. lol!
You can disable the auto-correct; it’s more pain than help!
The ivory tower in Novato has fallen. The same people in home office for the past 15+ years, hiding out, protecting their own kind, achieving nothing at all are the ones responsible for this. LF hired as President and it took her 2 years to drive 30 minutes to the companies largest office and when she did, she blamed the woes on the underwriters.
You just gotta love those leaders that publicly reprimand employee groups.
I am still smarting from a public reprimand from Farmers CEO Marty Feinstein at a “reward” Championship conference in Cancun in the 90’s. I never had respect for him after that. They obviously don’t follow the One Minute Manager who would never publicly reprimand someone.
We have seen several companies struggle and change direction and many known for mistreating agents. The list includes Allstate, Farmers, Nationwide. Allstate agents actually formed a guild (union) to deal with management. Many of these captive agents would really like to be independent, but can’t get appointments.
All the fault of the FFIC demise lies with the home office “ivory Tower”, the same people in Novato for the past 15+ years protecting their own jobs, making horrible decisions and pushing any blame onto the underwriters. Add that with the last 3 presidents that accomplished nothing, and used the position as a stepping stone.
I am a former employee and left in 2013. I went through 5 CEO’s in 7yrs so I knew something was brewing in the Horizon. Very glad someone stable has come along to purchase FF because it was a sinking ship with all the captains juming overboad and abandoning the passengers
Liz, I think all the CEO’s were re-arranging the deck chairs on the sinking ship. The worst one I remember was Mike LaRocca who was let go at Safeco for screwing around with Personal Lines. Then, we heard he was doing the same thing at FFund and he didn’t last long there either.
Fireman’s Fund could withstand the damage from the 1906 San Francisco earthquake but not the 20+ years of neglect and disappointment from the parent company. It takes a toll.
We have lots of process and lives in transition here in Novato and elsewhere. Once we run our business off of Fireman’s Fund paper, perhaps someone will see the value in buying our firehat brand image.
Two of the most iconic images in the industry were the Fireman’s Fund hat and the Travelers Umbrella. Travelers lost the ability to display their Umbrella when Citigroup acquired them. When they broke away, they got that Umbrella back.
Remember the pictures of the rain coming through the hole in the umbrella many years ago? Not so sure it hasn’t changed all that much.
Time and time again I see companies failing or holding on by their shoe strings because a college degree from an Ivy school does not make you a sales Guru. No offense, but have you ever met with a TSM? Well, the boss is worse as far as the mentality of sales accomplishments. They forget who the customer is…. The people buying the policy and the agents who sell it. The most important aspect of an insurance company is the two customer equation, there is no college degree except hard knocks for that accomplishment.
I would question the Board of Directors that kept hiring incompetent CEO’s who didn’t have what it took to turn the company around and make it profitable. Paula Reynolds wasn’t even in the insurance industry when Safeco hired her, but she quickly analyzed what ailed Safeco and started lopping heads off and the first one to go was LaRocca. Many say she was hired to prepare the company for sale. It must have worked because Liberty Mutual appeared on the scene to buy them and they are very profitable now and one of the bigger Independent agency Personal Lines companies.
FFIC was, at one time, a great place to work. The employees believed in the product & worked hard. The constant turnover of the top management took a major toll. Many excellent people left, myself among them, as the situation slid down the hill. The was little consistency with rules/processes changing almost daily. Team leaders moving around as though playing musical chairs. Those in charge requesting input from all employees, only to ignore their input. The stress level was unbelievable.
I feel sorry for those who will be most affected by this merger. I truly hope that this change will make their working lives easier.
Wawtching Karma do it’s job couldn’t be more satisfying in this case. Enjoying every second….see ya :)
There is a German word for one who takes delight in the misfortune of others — Schadenfreude. It is also called sour grapes. I bet your were part of the reason why Fireman’s failed.
Sorry Karma Carmen, but I can tell you for certain, The “Good Old Boy Network” including the German’s you seem to be so knowledgable about, are the ones who are to blame for the failure of The Fund. Since you are such an Expert on the Schadenfreude, I bet YOU have had plenty of experience with it yourself, haven’t you??!
Dear Moviebluff, does Carmen sound like a male name to you? Since the correct answer is no, then being female would automatically exclude me from any leadership position in the good old boy network.
Karma Carmen, your response to me and your response to moviebuff both sound like sourgrapes to me. You sound like a lower level cog in the wheel at The Fund who has yet to get a grip on the reality of what is going on around you. Better get your resume “fluffed up” before some “shadenfreude” hits you where it hurts girl! Happy hunting :)
Dear Karma lover, it appears you have a firm, death-like grip on the sour grapes. Sadly, you wish the employees harm. We are fully aware of what is happening but yet manage to act in a professional manner to handle the business at hand. I wish the same could be said of you — but will wish that you find it so that you, too, can have a wonderful life.
This is what you get when you combine socialist Germans with Marin County Liberals. A truly dysfunctional organization that prioritized the politics of business decisions over results and had perverse incentives.
Yep, that’s the reason…that and actuarial missteps.
Does anyone have insight regarding where the Farm & Ranch segment of FFIC falls in the realignment? Will it fall under AGC&S?
Do you know if the FARM/AGRI unit is considered part of the personal lines sale or will it be with the commercial lines. Thank you.
question, I have never represented Fireman’s Fund, but my experience with my other carriers who have Agri units is that they are in the Commercial side rather than Personal.
The Farm & Ranch Division, along with everything else that isn’t PI, has gone to AGCS. As a long-time employee of FFIC, who recently left, the placement of everything under the Allianz umbrella is the best thing in the world for both the policyholders and the agents. FFIC’s Ivory Tower in Novato fell years ago, but nobody told the management. :) Hate to see the Brand disappear, but not unhappy at all to see a company boiled down in management wars disappear. Gordon Gecko would have hacked them up years ago.
My father retired from FFIC almost 30 years ago as a commercial lines manager in the Atlanta branch. He started there right out of high school. Even then, he saw big changes in the way they treated their employees. Morale went from bad to worse. The number of agents representing FFIC dropped also.
Do not fret. ACE will give the Fund book and staff a quick enema resulting in a reduced acquisition cost.
A good move in the Ag business!
The leadership of ACE’s high-end PL unit doesn’t have the ability to handle this acquisition. They barely handled the Atlantic Mutual project and that was a small regional player desparate for a life line. Leadership will make or break teams. The FFIC team has been deserate for leadership for years, they unfortunately will soon find that they have gone from bad to worse.
Much of the ACE field leadership is FFIC Alum. They will know who to “prune”, at least in the field. I’m not sure what will happen in Novato.
Agent is correct. Years of mismanagement will tend to make it go away. Lots of examples – old Kemper is one and the current Kemper is well on it’s way.
I worked at FFIC for a little over 6 years and had 2 management positions in that time-but I had no fewer than 6 different bosses during that time. It was crazy with each one having a different set of priorities. Several were FFIC vets, but others had been brought in with a mandate of one kind or the other. It didn’t seem to matter as RP’s, Regional Execs, Regional VPs’-regardless what the title was, they tended to have relatively short careers if they didn’t grow. Didn’t seem to matter if you were actually making money or not but just growth.
At the end of the day, that is what the germans wanted from FFIC as you just never heard much about profit from anyone in charge. I really enjoyed the people I worked with-including the execs, but think that the blame has to rest with Allianz on this one as they never seemd to care much about making money.
I worked for Fireman’s Fund in St. Louis Missouri for 31 years. Started in the file room, then went to typing in the claim’s service unit, then became a CSS and final a CA. Ended up being an adjuster in subrogation. They outsourced the entire subrogation department nationwide to Craig, a collection company. They gave it to them before and they lost it back to FFIC. This was very upsetting to all of us that they would give to them once again. They took it back from them once again also. IT was sad to hear the FFIC will no longer be. I started March 9th, 1971 and left March 9th 2001. I still miss working for them. It felt like home.