Does anyone have a link or data of how many of the enrollees did not have insurance before the plan? Also, any data on how many who have enrolled had prior access to insurance, but did not opt to have it?
This would help with determining the true success of the program.
Apparantly not. It looks like no-one has been collecting that data, although the carriers should be able to tell us their numbers of insured pre v. post-ACA. And we should have a handle on how many are new to medicaid. I guess it will just take someone with the time and money to figure it all out.
Get, what we do know is that 6 million right off the bat had their coverage they liked non renewed to force them to enroll in Obamacareless. That was the Gruber plan and he thought America was too stupid to make their own choices so he made it for them.
Jack, are you too stupid to see that Obama and the ACA dont set rates either? The carriers do. The ACA expanded coverage, it did not address costs BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS OPPOSED SUCH MEASURES.
The ACA does affect rates. They specifically changed what an insurance company can put toward investments to be used for future pay outs. The lower that number, the less an insurance company can be profitable. The only way an insurance company can keep costs low, is by having higher profit margins on the premium brought in, to pay out more than they receive in the long run for claims. It is basic math.
On your republicans opposing setting rates: Of course they do. Cost controls don’t work. Basic economics.
The plan was rated to increase insurance premiums by 9% by comparison to the republican plan which was rated to decrease premiums by 9%.
Republicans are not opposed to cost cutting measures.
The efficiency of health insurance should not be messed with.
If we want a good system, a public option would be fine, and then absolutely no government intervention in order to attempt to muck up insurance. The implementations were clearly put in place as it is, to make health insurance not work and lead to a universal coverage.
That isn’t a good way of doing things, and there is no doubt that was the attempt.
Boob, cost controls do work for every other industrialized nation on the planet. All of them. Think about that, we have made a choice in America to spend more on healthcare. Other nations have chosen to spend less. The market is not an all-knowing God. It can be manipulated and controlled by the people – through their government – if desireable.
Stop reading Ayn Rand for 30 minutes.
February 19, 2015 at 3:59 pm
bob says:
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You are an idiotic ass.
I talked politely, and your reply is to stop reading conservative articles from Ayn Rand? (I assume she is conservative).
I don’t watch Fox, is she’s there. I use common sense.
As for price controls working in other nations:
Wrong. Entirely wrong. Our care costs more for an inherent reason:
We have fat, smoking, obese morons in this country.
And despite having more fat, smoking, obese morons in this country, we have life expectancies when adjusted for vehicular homicides and murders, at nearly equal to say Switzerland.
I didn’t read some other person’s post on this.
I looked up the government websites for deaths, which you can also find causes. It separates out vehicular deaths as well as homicides and murders, and the ages. I looked at the WHO report for costs. And then I found what it was missing in infant mortality (a consistent method of measure).
I compared a consistent method of measure and found that while obesity also affects infant mortality, our rates when normalized are better (and cost more, of course, to advert the death of the infant) and our fat bastards cost more as well.
I don’t nor have I ever watched Hannity, or that O’reily guy, (however you spell his name, and I’m not sure what his first name is). Specifically, because assholes like you label those people, and mock people who watch them. Ignorant assholes, who ironically mock people for relying on one person, and yet who do so themselves for numbers.
Our healthcare costs more for one reason: Better outcomes as a whole.
It is the only possibility. WHO picks some areas where other nations do better, on maybe 10 items (and that is debatable) and compares the cost on those items.
I however have the better methodology. I took the numbers for our life expectancy myself, removed non health related factors, and found we are equal in life expectancy, despite people having heart attacks all the time, despite having people who are obese, diabetic, and smokers.
So how are these obese, smoking, morons living if it isn’t the healthcare? A fluke where we just naturally live just as long regardless of lifestyle choices?
No. The only possibility is our system saves our fat asses. Care is required here. You get a bill, but you get amazing service. Cost is a different story.
But comparing their costs to ours, is not an accurate story.
They all controlled costs, and their systems all have worse outcomes.
February 19, 2015 at 4:04 pm
Stan says:
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Boob, you dont know who Ayn Rand is and yet youre the one calling me dumb?! Good god man, figure something out on your own for me just one time.
And the US doesnt have “better outcomes” dummy. Unless you define “fat” as “better” which would make sense, given your boobish reasoning skillz.
February 19, 2015 at 4:09 pm
bob says:
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I define it as a life expectancy.
You obviously don’t have very good reading skills.
I compared life expectancies. I define ours as better when you remove deaths that are not linked to health care (homicides, vehicular deaths). We are equal when you remove such aspects, and yet we have the factors that should cause us to die earlier.
The only possibility is when we get fat, we survive. How?
The risk factor for diabetes goes up by 10 times for people who are obese.
Cancer risks go up.
Heart attack goes up.
We have people who get cancer more, have heart attacks more, and have more diabetes,
Living as long as people who take good care of themselves.
That is a good outcome. “He Lived.”. I’ll take the Subaru quote on this one.
Being fat wasn’t the benefit. Living was.
February 19, 2015 at 4:13 pm
bob says:
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Also,
On one end if I listen to Ayn Rand, I am a dumbass,
If I don’t, I’m a dumb ass.
You have severe mental issues. I am choosy with what sources I use, and how I determine methodology.
Usually I use fact pieces from Liberal articles, combined with government websites.
Then I use them to show the conclusion in the fact piece from the liberal was wrong, but the other numbers were right.
Then I take a conservative piece, that had the right conclusion.
For example: The health info I just gave you.
The WHO is definitely left leaning.
The government websites that show deaths etc do it as census.
The conservative site that talked about better outcomes, I then get the info that shows they are right.
Truthfully, the conservative site usually has the wrong numbers, the right conclusion.
Liberal sites have the right numbers, the wrong conclusion.
You have to put together a lot of info.
February 19, 2015 at 10:12 am
Agent says:
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Jack, Libby thinks you should have negotiated a better deal with your mandated policy. I have gone in several times to the website to quote customers on alternative plans and it goes from bad to worse depending on the plan looked at. I don’t know of any way to ask for scheduled credits to reduce the premium. You probably make to much to get a subsidy, so there you have it, stuck in limbo.
Agent, this is the problem with the market. YOU as an individual have zero bargaining power. This is why the government should set costs, because the market cannot do it alone.
Again, your inability to understand this truly boggles the mind. Im not sure you could pass basic Econ with this mental fortitude.
The best article to date on why American healthcare costs so much. Hint: the main reason is because “it can.”
The “bitter pill” article also points to where the law itself fails to address the needs of health care workers and the 98% in favor on the $2.9 trillion dollar monster that is our for profit health care system.
Stan, the GOVT should stay out of private business. I know your much to young to have had experience with this and you are way too gullible as you back a Chicago / Crook County politician, but Govt intrusion into private business increases cost. By the time you are bald and whats left is grey, you will have learned this the hard way.
The government regulates the cost of water and electricity so as to make both utilities universally affordable. It can do the same thing with healthcare.
February 23, 2015 at 11:06 am
FFA says:
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Yea Right Stan I have a Dam in Panama. Would you like to buy it? I’ll sell it cheap as I need to pay for my water & electricity bills along with my affordable health insurance.
February 23, 2015 at 4:55 pm
Stan says:
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FFA, be snarky if you like, but the fact of the matter is that governmental regulations for both water and energy keep prices low for the masses. When regulation is removed, prices skyrocket. This is not theory. Look at Enron’s raping of the California energy market. Rolling blackouts, soaring costs, that is your de-regulatory default outcome, friend.
February 20, 2015 at 2:04 pm
FFA says:
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$2300 a year and your complaining???? Really? That’s it? Thats what I Pay every two months with the BCBS Choice Network.
Every time I see something like this, I know moving out of IL is the right move.
Unless you propose the government start paying for students to attend medical school (not a terrible idea) there will be no more additional doctors and nurses than normal.
That may be a better use of funds. Provide education for those who really want and need it. Increase the supply of medical staff and let the laws of economics go to work.
Actually, many, many doctors have retired, sold their practices because they don’t want to put up with it. Another truth is there will be a big shortage of doctors in the coming years and people will be relegated to doc in the boxes for treatment which will be substandard.
Do you have any links to support “there will be a big shortage of doctors in the coming years”?
I found: “Concerns that the nation faces a looming physician shortage, particularly in primary care specialties, are common,” wrote an expert panel of the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in a report on the financing of graduate medical education in July. “The committee did not find credible evidence to support such claims.”
It’s that last line which has me questioning your “another truth” about the potential doctor shortage in the future.
Seems like these doctors would have more customers if more people have insurance. Wouldn’t that benefit them? And I guess if they can afford to retire, earlier than originally planned, because they don’t want to “put up with it” then they must have done okay. I don’t feel sorry for them.
SW, so what you are saying then is a doctor who went through College, Medical School, Residency, piling up huge debt and finally started practicing in his late 20’s, early 30’s should be willing to work twice as hard for half the money and accept much less re-imbursement for his service from Obamacare, Medicare & Medicaid in order to keep working in his chosen profession. These doctors also are employers with administrative people, nurses, PA’s payroll plus numerous other expenses so he is supposed to just eat that, right? Not surprising to me they are quitting or selling their practice.
Yes, Rosenblatt thinks it is perfectly fine for him and Libby to hide my posts, but when I retaliate, he doesn’t like it so well. They do it on other Conservative posters like Bob as well. They can dish it out, but can’t take it. Sorry to tell them that they are not in charge and will not dominate this blog.
February 19, 2015 at 10:14 am
Ron says:
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Libs have ruined America,
It is not paranoia if Agent has admitted to such behavior.
Agent is a very insecure person who needs “Likes” to validate his positions because he has no facts, especially data.
February 19, 2015 at 10:27 am
Rosenblatt says:
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Agent – I only hit dislike on your posts the same amount of times as you hit like. I do not intentionally hide your posts. Also, I only up-vote my own comments when you’ve hidden them.
You are the only one between the two of us who is hiding posts.
February 19, 2015 at 10:28 am
Rosenblatt says:
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PS Agent – You only hide my posts as retaliation? Liar. Your posts on this thread are all showing yet you’ve hidden two of mine. That is not retaliating. That is you initiating this BS.
February 18, 2015 at 5:11 pm
Judith Vaughan says:
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Anyone in the insurance industry should understand that before the Affordable Care Act, people with preexisting medical conditions, who didn’t have coverage through their employer, were denied coverage. Without the mandate that everyone buy health insurance, there is adverse selection and insurers can’t afford to provide the coverage to those who need it most. The only other alternative, which most developed nations have, is state-provided coverage (Medicare for all).
Apparently, Judith, you have never heard of the many State Pools to cover the uninsured before which were in effect prior to Obamacare. With Obamacare, these uninsured have had the effect of forcing rates up for everyone with those nasty mandates and the numerous medical conditions these people had. Does a woman in her 50’s really need Maternity or a young man? Do young men need birth control pills? No wonder the rates for young men are so high. I maintain that we have adverse selection under Obamacare since it is a one size fits all and no one can opt out of the unneeded coverage. Pools should be allowed to cover pre-existing conditions people and they should pay a higher rate and let the healthy pay the lower rate.
The problem with State Pools or any other residual market is cost. It was prohibitive to most people who needed to go there for coverage. It was cheaper for them to go to the hospital, build up a huge bill, then file bankruptcy. Please tell uis how that is a good system?
You said, ” Does a woman in her 50’s really need Maternity or a young man? Do young men need birth control pills?” I have never had an employer provided plan that let me opt out of coverages I did not want. How is this different?
Please google adverse selection, then re-read your post. The PPACA mandate is the antithesis of adverse selection.
Ron, the problem with Obamacare is cost, poor coverage, high deductibles, high out of pocket expense. It is cost prohibitive to all Americans. Do you think it “fair” to subject all Americans to pay for something they didn’t want to cover a small proportion of the population? Do you think it is fair to mix in all the pre-ex people into the healthy pool which forces up rates? Please take another Economics course. Your reasoning is flawed.
Will you ever actually comprehend my posts before replying? Where in my posts did I defend the PPACA directly?
If it was cost prohibitive to all Americans, nobody would have health insurance.
I did not say that the PPACA is the solution. I was only pointing out why State Pools were not a realistic option for most people who were denied coverage.
You already know that I am against the PPACA in its current form. I am an advocate for Universal Health Care, American style.
You asked, “Do you think it “fair” to subject all Americans to pay for something they didn’t want to cover a small proportion of the population?” If we are the supposed Christian nation you righties preach about, then YES!!!!!
You asked, “Do you think it is fair to mix in all the pre-ex people into the healthy pool which forces up rates?” YES!!!! If you have any basic undersatnding of the insurance mechanism, then you would agree. You never know when you will be the one who has an expensive surgery, treatments, prescriptions, or rehab, and then a pre-existing condition. Will you want your health insurance premiums to sky rocket because you or your wife got sick and/or injured?
February 20, 2015 at 10:35 am
Agent says:
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Ron, will you ever comprehend basic Economics before starting your tirades? We know you are a big Progressive advocate of Government Healthcare. You are all in favor of forced government insurance because it fits your agenda. You are still re-arranging the deck chairs on the biggest scam in American History. Universal Healthcare would dwarf the costs of Obamacare with a massive new agency to administer it and it would be every bit as substandard in coverage, cost as what we have now. Government bureaucrats in charge of anything is idiocy of the highest order. Look at what VA has done. That is a microcosm of what Universal Healthcare would be like.
February 20, 2015 at 10:54 am
Ron says:
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Agent,
I answered your questions directly. Why can you not extend the same courtesy?
1. Where in my posts did I defend the PPACA directly?
2. You said, ”Does a woman in her 50’s really need Maternity or a young man? Do young men need birth control pills?” I have never had an employer provided plan that let me opt out of coverages I did not want. How is this different?
3. Will you want your health insurance premiums to sky rocket because you or your wife got sick and/or injured?
4. Did you google adverse selection? Do you understand that any mandated insurance eliminates adverse selection as a risk?
5. Do you understand how the spreading of risk works within the insurance mechanism?
6. How will increasing taxes on the middle and lower classes, while maintaing the tax rates on the upper classes help the economy?
7. You said, “Universal Healthcare would dwarf the costs of Obamacare with a massive new agency to administer it and it would be every bit as substandard in coverage, cost as what we have now.” Is this your opinion or due have real data to back this up?
February 20, 2015 at 11:37 am
Stan says:
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Ron, why do you continue to engage Agent? He is incapable of answering questions directly because if he did he would be forced to recognize the inconsistency of his views. His small Texan head would probably explode, ruining a ten-gallon cowboy hat in the process.
February 20, 2015 at 5:47 pm
FFA says:
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So Agent, why do you continue to engage Stan? He is an Underemployed College Grad that don’t work in our industry and has no real world experience. His childish rants attacking the Been There Done That feet on the ground real world experienced agents in this blog leave him with no credible comments.
February 20, 2015 at 2:41 pm
FFA says:
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Then he should have worked on the State Pools instead of ruining health care for everyone even though he promised we can keep our plans & doctors and the average Joe would realize a cost savings before he did away with a max oop.
I don’t disagree with you. However, health care has been a significant issue for tens of millions of Americans for decades and nobody was willing to do anything about it. While I like some of the Republican ideas, they would not solve the real drivers increasing health care costs.
What would be your solution for fixing the state pools so people ineligible for the open maket can obtain health care that is not cost prohibitive? Do you raise taxes so we can subsidize their premiums? Do we create a network of doctors and hospitals that will take less money to treat these people? What level of care would result?
When the number 1 reason for bankruptcies is health care costs, that cannot be ignored.
February 20, 2015 at 5:20 pm
Agent says:
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So Ron, where did you get the Algorithms that would prove that Republican ideas would not solve the drivers of healthcare costs? You seem ready to jump over into the realm of Universal Healthcare. How about furnishing us the complete information of how government would solve all problems. Their track record is abysmal. Just today, Healthcare.gov made a huge blunder and sent wrong tax info to 800,000 enrollees. Is that a good example of government efficiency? Don’t give us any more nonsense about how government is helping the folks. It is idiocy.
February 20, 2015 at 5:42 pm
FFA says:
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Ron “What would be your solution for fixing the state pools so people ineligible for the open maket can obtain health care that is not cost prohibitive?”
A much smaller and less costly version of the PPACA.
“Do you raise taxes so we can subsidize their premiums?”
MAybe… That increase would be no where near where it is going to end up at. Everyone would be better off. Cost of the web site to every tax payor has got to be over $10.00 by now.
“Do we create a network of doctors and hospitals that will take less money to treat these people? What level of care would result?”
A topic to research….
A State Senator of ours stated it would less costly to put every uninsured person in IL on a Traditional HMO and it would cost the state less.
Question back at you – Have you signed anyone up for this coverage?
Has anyone but me signed anyone up for this coverage?
No matter what Web Site (Carrier of Healthcare.gov), who has experience – other then for yourself – with this process?
February 21, 2015 at 5:20 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
I am not answering any more of your questions until you answer mine.
1. Where in my posts did I defend the PPACA directly?
2. You said, ”Does a woman in her 50’s really need Maternity or a young man? Do young men need birth control pills?” I have never had an employer provided plan that let me opt out of coverages I did not want. How is this different?
3. Will you want your health insurance premiums to sky rocket because you or your wife got sick and/or injured?
4. Did you google adverse selection? Do you understand that any mandated insurance eliminates adverse selection as a risk?
5. Do you understand how the spreading of risk works within the insurance mechanism?
6. How will increasing taxes on the middle and lower classes, while maintaing the tax rates on the upper classes help the economy?
7. You said, “Universal Healthcare would dwarf the costs of Obamacare with a massive new agency to administer it and it would be every bit as substandard in coverage, cost as what we have now.” Is this your opinion or due have real data to back this up?
February 20, 2015 at 2:17 pm
FFA says:
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Judith, Most states had a pool set up for the Pre X crowd. It was there. It was available.
AGENT – LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION FOR THE 7TH TIME. I AM WRITING IN ALL CAPS HOPING YOU WILL TAKE THIS QUESTION SERIOUSLY AND ANSWER ME.
IF I AGREE NOT TO DISLIKE POSTS MORE THAN ONCE (YOURS, BOBS, WHOEVER), DO YOU AGREE TO NOT INTENTIONALLY DOWN-VOTE POSTS MANY MANY TIMES IN ORDER TO HIDE THEM?
Just so you all know, I am going to downvote Agent’s posts no matter what he does because he is a fool who should not be taken seriously in any capacity.
Every single human has aspects that should be taken seriously. It is that you should never take everything someone says, not that you should avoid any influence.
This is actually what a conservative has been labeled to do (in general) by liberals. Block out any output that doesn’t meet their preconceived notions of right or wrong.
I make a point of calling Agent out when I need to, and agreeing when it is appropriate. I do this same thing with Libby (though our arguments stick out more, because she pisses me off often).
I have specifically called out agent on numerous occasions, and told him I disagree, and I have several times told him to watch his republican comments as we have a duty to represent the conservative side of things well.
That is my version of calling him an extremist. When he is of course.
February 19, 2015 at 4:08 pm
Stan says:
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Why are you laughing, Booby? Did something confuse you and now youre compensating?
And “duty to represent” is not calling out Agent. Kind of like asking someone to not kill people is not the same as incarcerating for murder.
February 19, 2015 at 4:16 pm
bob says:
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Stan,
When I tell him that, the duty to represent the conservative side,
IT IS BECAUSE HE SAID SOMETHING SO FALSE I CORRECT HIM.
I have numerous times told him I disagreed.
I am laughing not to compensate, but rather because you are so idiotic, you have missed agent and I disagreeing.
I have several times told him that he was focusing on something that was wrong. Several.
I have then told him what the real issue is. If that isn’t calling someone wrong I don’t know what is.
You miss that because with him I do it respectfully, more indirect. When I tell him “I wouldn’t say that. Really it is about this”. That is me saying “You’re wrong, here is what is correct”.
Agent often then disagrees again, and I just say “meh” and move on.
February 19, 2015 at 5:04 pm
Agent says:
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Bob, I often disagree with you as well. I give you a semi pass since you are from a very liberal state of Washington. You are also very wordy and drone on forever, paragraph after paragraph as you are trying to stay up with Rosenblatt for longest posts saying very little. By the way, I hope you get rid of Patti Murray the next go around. She is a very bad Senator. If Arkansas can get rid of Pryor and Louisiana can get rid of Landrieu, Washington can get rid of Murray.
February 19, 2015 at 5:32 pm
Stan says:
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Agent, you are in no position to give anyone a pass on anything. Maybe if you apologized for ruining the country, but otherwise, I suggest you say thank you, and head on your way.
February 19, 2015 at 6:12 pm
bob says:
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So hold on, did Stan just essentially tell Agent I don’t get a pass on being Liberal?
…So…I shouldn’t be liberal then right? I never can grasp Stan’s logics.
Murray is not something I’m proud of. I can be very wordy going over large aspects. I try to keep it as sort as I can.
February 19, 2015 at 3:38 pm
Libs have ruined America says:
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Stan–you are Rosenbrat are such whiners! Grow up!! Waaa Waaa Waaa….do you suck your thumb, too??
Hey Libs, Rosenblatt, Libby, Ron & Stan have anger management issues. They just can’t understand how all their Progressive theories have gone to h — in a hand basket. They have chosen the wrong leader saying and doing all the wrong things and swallowed the propaganda hook, line & sinker. Like all good Progressives, they then turn to the art of the insult and make complete fools of themselves. I will close by quoting a great American.
“My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government”. – Thomas Jefferson
You put that quote on your post yet advocate for more government, increased taxes, and supported presidents who actually increased the size of the government, Reagan and GW Bush.
February 20, 2015 at 8:08 am
Rosenblatt says:
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Agent, you’re STILL trying to say I chose the wrong leader? You’re an idiot. I’ve already told you a dozen times that I didn’t cast one vote for Obama and I voted Republican in the recent mid-term elections.
February 19, 2015 at 3:06 pm
bob says:
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For someone who says not to assume what someone thinks or does, you’re assuming a lot on this one lately.
And are going after my posts by your admission above. So if Agent doesn’t stop, you will balance out the things you are so sure that he is doing.
If you paid attention, there are some posts that definitely show it isn’t agent doing it. I have my own personal guesses, and I thought it was agent too. But I have specifically called agent an idiot (not directly but he would take it as such) on a few issues and had a horde of likes with few dislikes. If he were balancing it out he would go after those.
I haven’t disliked any posts here, for the record. I make a point of it.
I’m not talking about just this time where he said he’s retaliating against you.
Agent has had people go after him considerably with the dislikes.
He does do it. Some other conservatives do as well balance out with likes (not dislikes).
What I am saying, is that a few people here do. The best way to solve it is not to say you will stop if someone else stops, and then by default say you will do it if you see it done. In the future, you might think it is him and it isn’t, and as a result continue after he has stopped.
Boob, please leave the forum. Youre not adding anything substantive. Take Agent with you.
February 19, 2015 at 4:20 pm
bob says:
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Your insanity is immeasurable.
You don’t add anything here Stan.
You have the capability to extrapolate data of a 5 year old, and it isn’t due to lack of intelligence.
It is due to clear allegiance and indoctrination issues. You don’t question the right things. You label who to listen to as if it was football. This isn’t some fraternity Stan, of which I am sure you were part of one based on your attitude (Am I right, Stan?)
My family and I have no allegiances. My PHD grad brother is specifically not democrat due to saying post grad students disregard SCIENCE in the name of politics, and you seem to be one of those.
I think you could have potential, if you drop the labeling, the bias, the cliques, popularity, and this absurd black and white crap.
February 19, 2015 at 4:21 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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So bob, am I correct that your suggestion is that I stop trying to resolve this matter like an adult? Are you saying I should stop trying to reach a cease-fire agreement with someone I know is messing with the votes, and instead just allow people to manipulate the votes and hide any posts whenever they want to, and not say or do anything about it?
If that’s what you’re saying (please correct me if I’m wrong), that’s a horrible suggestion —- basically “do nothing and hope it will get better.” I can’t get behind that at all.
February 19, 2015 at 4:29 pm
bob says:
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What you just said, wasn’t adult to me. It was condescending and rude, and is why you have no success with Agent.
Your condescending truce, is actually your way of telling him not to defend himself. Hello hypocrite child, now I’ll start with the insults, as you deserve it.
Moving on: Yes. The best way to deal with this is not to tell him unless he agrees to a truce you will keep on being a brat.
The way to do it is to say “Come on agent, I have stopped disliking your posts, could you do the same?”.
Not “I will stop when you do! Na na na na na!”
You ignornat brat. Yes, I’m throwing in direct insults, due to your condescending tone, and will accept nothing less form you than “I should do better, sorry about that”.
February 19, 2015 at 4:29 pm
Stan says:
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As a matter of fact I was not in a fraternity. Couldnt afford it. Had to spend my money on health insurance instead.
Were you in a fraternity, Boob?
February 19, 2015 at 4:56 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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“What you just said, wasn’t adult to me. It was condescending and rude.”
I’m sorry you got that impression from my post. I was simply asking you if I understood what you were suggesting and, if I didn’t get the gist of your post right, that I’d like you to better explain what you were suggesting I do. Hence the “please correct me if I’m wrong” part.
Asking “I think you’re saying THIS, am I right – is that what you’re saying? If I’m wrong, please correct me” is an adult question no matter how you try to slice it.
“You ignornat brat. Yes, I’m throwing in direct insults, due to your condescending tone”
Love you too, bob.
Once again I will politely ask that you take my words at face value and do not try to read a deeper meaning into what I didn’t actually write.
If you had simply read the words I posted, you wouldn’t have thought I was being rude or condescending as your only conclusion would’ve been “Rosenblatt asked me twice if what he typed is really what I was trying to say, and he specifically asked me to point out where he was wrong if he misunderstood my suggestion. That’s a valid question to ensure there’s no confusion or misunderstanding.”
February 19, 2015 at 6:14 pm
bob says:
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Stan,
I was not in a fraternity, no.
But at least you asked nicely so I’ll answer.
February 19, 2015 at 6:16 pm
bob says:
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I think I see your issue here, and I have been ignoring it.
This isn’t fraternity style allegiance.
This is desperation. You couldn’t afford insurance yourself, and you believe the democrats will fix it.
You’re looking to the wrong people.
February 20, 2015 at 8:11 am
Rosenblatt says:
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No reply to my last post, bob?
February 20, 2015 at 2:15 pm
bob says:
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I sometimes it is best to ignore overly childish people like you after I have already made the point, and the person clearly isn’t going to make progress.
I didn’t read your other post. And I won’t.
The only reason I just even read this one that you asked if I was going to reply is that I suddenly felt sorry for Stan, and decided to see if he commented.
You are more or less the type of person who causes evil.
It isn’t evil people that cause the spread of evil. People don’t like them, people don’t follow them.
However you, with your last comment, saying should you not be adult and try to resolve the situation, does make evil look good.
You were doing the wrong thing,
And you tried to appear adult while doing it, like a brat.
I don’t proceed forward with people like that.
I do the right thing:
Which is rebuke the hell out of them,
And then wipe the dirt off my sandals.
Which ironically, the evil person then uses to say : GASP!! YOU INSULTED ME!!! That’s so not ok!
Oh my goodness! I’ve never seen that happen before! (Sarcasm)
This is far past being worth my effort.
February 20, 2015 at 2:29 pm
Stan says:
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Boob, you wear sandals? Let me guess, Tevas? Just like the good Lord.
February 20, 2015 at 2:47 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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OMFG bob, you are too much. I mean that in the most insincere and negative way possible.
A child’s mentality would start with the insults, continue them when the other person hasn’t stooped down to that level, and refuses to read a reply even though the other person has been trying to keep it a civil discussion without any insults thrown your way.
You’re basically sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “nananananan I can’t hear you” yet I’m the overtly childish one.
Hypocrite
February 19, 2015 at 4:54 pm
Agent says:
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Rosenblatt, I have had enough of your pestering behavior. You and your minions hide my posts all the time. The other day, I came in from an appointment, pulled up the article and at least 8 posts were hidden. I am not going to let you and Libby hide my posts or Bob who is also assaulted with dislikes to the point of being hidden. You Progressives are something else, but Conservatives are undeterred and will keep on getting our views read and if your post is bad enough, yes I will get after you.
Agent, has it ever occured to you that people just think your posts are needlessly combative and poorly written? Maybe you should write something that people agree with if you’re so concerned about hidden posts? There are consequences for being a big dumb Texan, and hidden posts are probably the least of your worries.
February 20, 2015 at 8:15 am
Rosenblatt says:
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“Rosenblatt, I have had enough of your pestering behavior.”
You know how to stop that in the future, Agent? Just answer the damn question the first time. It’s that simple. Then I wouldn’t have to pester you 7+ times for an answer to a single question!
February 20, 2015 at 11:07 am
KY jw says:
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The posts are still there, and can be read. Why such a big deal?
February 20, 2015 at 6:31 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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KY – I kept asking that question as Agent has ignored it in ~7 other threads he is (or was) participating in. It was a suggested solution to one of his recurring complaints.
February 20, 2015 at 11:00 am
KY jw says:
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I’m a little surprised that the Like & Dislike voting has become a touchy issue. Does it really matter?
Apparently the content of a post, which becomes more meaningless daily, is nowhere near as important as the thumbs up/thumbs down numbers. Ridiculous. Here’s a novel idea – maybe posts could be insurance related, related to the article at hand, or have some semblance of substance.
Sometimes, I like the discord. It provides just a little humor, and a lot of eye rolling. Although, it would be nice to stick to the topic, that, Insurance Nerd, won’t happen.
February 20, 2015 at 3:01 pm
FFA says:
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Kids will be kids and detract from the issue at hand.
Rosenblatt, if you can guarantee me that Libby, you, Ron, Stan will stop hiding my comments and Bob’s, you may have a deal. Sorry, but I hardly think that will be successful. Progressives are not in charge of this blog. When I see mine and Bob’s comments hidden by an avalanche of dislikes, I will respond in kind.
Agent – all I’m asking is that ***YOU AND I*** have a truce and don’t intentionally hide each other’s posts. This is between you and me — it has no impact on you taking the hide-post action against anyone else and you can still defend yourself as you see fit. As a show of good faith to come to this truce, I agree not to downvote bob’s posts even once if you’re willing to accept this truce.
Rosenblatt, please wake up and smell the coffee. Your minions are doing the majority of downvoting and hiding my posts. I don’t know if it is you or them, just that it happens. I get attacked when I haven’t made my first post on an article just because Ron can. Therefore, when I see my posts hidden, I will downvote every liberal post I see within 10 posts. Sorry, that is the way it will be.
You are something else Agent. I’m telling you I won’t downvote you or bob if you don’t downvote me, and your reply is “Even though Rosenbaltt just told me he was willing to stop, so I would know it wasn’t him and I shouldn’t take it out on him, screw that – I’m still going to do it to him.”
I can not come up with the proper insults for you, Agent. Idiot. Hypocrite. Liar. Troll. Dumbass. I mean, none of those do you justice. I needed help with this.
If you were twice as smart, you’d still be stupid.
I’d like to see things from your point of view but I can’t seem to get my head that far up my @ss.
Is your @ss jealous of the amount of sh1t that comes out of your mouth?
You’re about as useful as Anne Frank’s drum kit.
I don’t have the time nor crayons to explain this on your level.
Somewhere out there is a tree, tirelessly producing oxygen so you can breathe. I think you owe it an apology.
February 20, 2015 at 11:45 am
Stan says:
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That was a great description of Agent, Rosenblatt. I told you guys all along that you cant be civil with him, hes just too dumb. Doesnt this worry you, knowing that the Agent’s of the world can vote?
February 20, 2015 at 3:58 pm
Agent says:
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Nice comment Rosenblatt. You just proved what a peach of a guy you are. We have had a few weeks of détente here and there and then you fall back into your true nature. If you want a truce, you may want to not comment on any of my posts and I will leave yours alone. We can agree to vehemently disagree on every subject. It is too bad you cannot control your fellow trolls.
February 20, 2015 at 4:10 pm
Stan says:
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Agent, here is your chance to be a non-troll.
1) do you believe in the legalization of marijuana at the federal level so as to leave the matter open for individual states to decide?
February 20, 2015 at 4:21 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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“We have had a few weeks of détente here and there.” No we didn’t – you never stopped being an insulting hypocritical troll with poor reading comprehension skills.
“It is too bad you cannot control your fellow trolls.” Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Because it’s so easy to control what people post on the internet. (end sarcasm) Dumbass.
February 20, 2015 at 4:29 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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One last one….
“We can agree to vehemently disagree on every subject”
I didn’t vote for Obama and don’t think he’s a great president — that means you disagree with me and think he is a great president!
I voted Republican in the last election – that means you disagree with me and think voters should’ve voted for the Democrats!
February 20, 2015 at 5:20 pm
Stan says:
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Shocker, once again, when the rubber meets the road and Agent is asked to make a substantive decision, he is silent as a Texas fart. Classic republicans, against everything and for nothing other than failure.
Agent, you’re a disservice to this country. And I mean that as nicely as possible.
February 23, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Insurance Nerd says:
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For Godsake, it is a post on an insurance website that can still be read even if ‘hidden’. Why is this so incredibly important? No one outside of this little blog, and some of us inside the little blog, really cares about this! You can still see the posts – it’s become a stupid pissing match. Put your pacifiers away and let it go.
I like Rudy. He is the best mayor NY has ever had and a sharp guy. He sees things with clear eyes and is not bashful when he points out the errors of the Progressive agenda.
Does anyone have a link or data of how many of the enrollees did not have insurance before the plan? Also, any data on how many who have enrolled had prior access to insurance, but did not opt to have it?
This would help with determining the true success of the program.
Apparantly not. It looks like no-one has been collecting that data, although the carriers should be able to tell us their numbers of insured pre v. post-ACA. And we should have a handle on how many are new to medicaid. I guess it will just take someone with the time and money to figure it all out.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/obamacare-enrollment-numbers-103828.html
I should have guessed that was the case. Thanks for the link.
Get, what we do know is that 6 million right off the bat had their coverage they liked non renewed to force them to enroll in Obamacareless. That was the Gruber plan and he thought America was too stupid to make their own choices so he made it for them.
I know that my agency added another dozen or previously uninsured.
Last policy I booked, premium subsidized was $11.00 a month.
My family plan is up $2300 a year since Obamacareless kicked in. What a lying piece of crap!
You need a better agent, Jack.
Libby- Are you too stupid to realize the agents don’t set the rates?
Your Lord Obama said they would go down $2500 a year- but you don’t remember that do you?
Maybe we can hire some ISIS “folks” to run the obamacareless website? You know because the jobless rate causes beheadings and such.
You liberals are pathetic !
Jack, are you too stupid to see that Obama and the ACA dont set rates either? The carriers do. The ACA expanded coverage, it did not address costs BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS OPPOSED SUCH MEASURES.
Dummy.
The ACA does affect rates. They specifically changed what an insurance company can put toward investments to be used for future pay outs. The lower that number, the less an insurance company can be profitable. The only way an insurance company can keep costs low, is by having higher profit margins on the premium brought in, to pay out more than they receive in the long run for claims. It is basic math.
On your republicans opposing setting rates: Of course they do. Cost controls don’t work. Basic economics.
The plan was rated to increase insurance premiums by 9% by comparison to the republican plan which was rated to decrease premiums by 9%.
Republicans are not opposed to cost cutting measures.
The efficiency of health insurance should not be messed with.
If we want a good system, a public option would be fine, and then absolutely no government intervention in order to attempt to muck up insurance. The implementations were clearly put in place as it is, to make health insurance not work and lead to a universal coverage.
That isn’t a good way of doing things, and there is no doubt that was the attempt.
Boob, cost controls do work for every other industrialized nation on the planet. All of them. Think about that, we have made a choice in America to spend more on healthcare. Other nations have chosen to spend less. The market is not an all-knowing God. It can be manipulated and controlled by the people – through their government – if desireable.
Stop reading Ayn Rand for 30 minutes.
You are an idiotic ass.
I talked politely, and your reply is to stop reading conservative articles from Ayn Rand? (I assume she is conservative).
I don’t watch Fox, is she’s there. I use common sense.
As for price controls working in other nations:
Wrong. Entirely wrong. Our care costs more for an inherent reason:
We have fat, smoking, obese morons in this country.
And despite having more fat, smoking, obese morons in this country, we have life expectancies when adjusted for vehicular homicides and murders, at nearly equal to say Switzerland.
I didn’t read some other person’s post on this.
I looked up the government websites for deaths, which you can also find causes. It separates out vehicular deaths as well as homicides and murders, and the ages. I looked at the WHO report for costs. And then I found what it was missing in infant mortality (a consistent method of measure).
I compared a consistent method of measure and found that while obesity also affects infant mortality, our rates when normalized are better (and cost more, of course, to advert the death of the infant) and our fat bastards cost more as well.
I don’t nor have I ever watched Hannity, or that O’reily guy, (however you spell his name, and I’m not sure what his first name is). Specifically, because assholes like you label those people, and mock people who watch them. Ignorant assholes, who ironically mock people for relying on one person, and yet who do so themselves for numbers.
Our healthcare costs more for one reason: Better outcomes as a whole.
It is the only possibility. WHO picks some areas where other nations do better, on maybe 10 items (and that is debatable) and compares the cost on those items.
I however have the better methodology. I took the numbers for our life expectancy myself, removed non health related factors, and found we are equal in life expectancy, despite people having heart attacks all the time, despite having people who are obese, diabetic, and smokers.
So how are these obese, smoking, morons living if it isn’t the healthcare? A fluke where we just naturally live just as long regardless of lifestyle choices?
No. The only possibility is our system saves our fat asses. Care is required here. You get a bill, but you get amazing service. Cost is a different story.
But comparing their costs to ours, is not an accurate story.
They all controlled costs, and their systems all have worse outcomes.
Boob, you dont know who Ayn Rand is and yet youre the one calling me dumb?! Good god man, figure something out on your own for me just one time.
And the US doesnt have “better outcomes” dummy. Unless you define “fat” as “better” which would make sense, given your boobish reasoning skillz.
I define it as a life expectancy.
You obviously don’t have very good reading skills.
I compared life expectancies. I define ours as better when you remove deaths that are not linked to health care (homicides, vehicular deaths). We are equal when you remove such aspects, and yet we have the factors that should cause us to die earlier.
The only possibility is when we get fat, we survive. How?
The risk factor for diabetes goes up by 10 times for people who are obese.
Cancer risks go up.
Heart attack goes up.
We have people who get cancer more, have heart attacks more, and have more diabetes,
Living as long as people who take good care of themselves.
That is a good outcome. “He Lived.”. I’ll take the Subaru quote on this one.
Being fat wasn’t the benefit. Living was.
Also,
On one end if I listen to Ayn Rand, I am a dumbass,
If I don’t, I’m a dumb ass.
You have severe mental issues. I am choosy with what sources I use, and how I determine methodology.
Usually I use fact pieces from Liberal articles, combined with government websites.
Then I use them to show the conclusion in the fact piece from the liberal was wrong, but the other numbers were right.
Then I take a conservative piece, that had the right conclusion.
For example: The health info I just gave you.
The WHO is definitely left leaning.
The government websites that show deaths etc do it as census.
The conservative site that talked about better outcomes, I then get the info that shows they are right.
Truthfully, the conservative site usually has the wrong numbers, the right conclusion.
Liberal sites have the right numbers, the wrong conclusion.
You have to put together a lot of info.
Jack, Libby thinks you should have negotiated a better deal with your mandated policy. I have gone in several times to the website to quote customers on alternative plans and it goes from bad to worse depending on the plan looked at. I don’t know of any way to ask for scheduled credits to reduce the premium. You probably make to much to get a subsidy, so there you have it, stuck in limbo.
Agent, this is the problem with the market. YOU as an individual have zero bargaining power. This is why the government should set costs, because the market cannot do it alone.
Again, your inability to understand this truly boggles the mind. Im not sure you could pass basic Econ with this mental fortitude.
I don’t recall any basic econ formulas that factored government setting costs.
Here you guys go: http://healthland.time.com/why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/
The best article to date on why American healthcare costs so much. Hint: the main reason is because “it can.”
The “bitter pill” article also points to where the law itself fails to address the needs of health care workers and the 98% in favor on the $2.9 trillion dollar monster that is our for profit health care system.
Stan, the GOVT should stay out of private business. I know your much to young to have had experience with this and you are way too gullible as you back a Chicago / Crook County politician, but Govt intrusion into private business increases cost. By the time you are bald and whats left is grey, you will have learned this the hard way.
The government regulates the cost of water and electricity so as to make both utilities universally affordable. It can do the same thing with healthcare.
Yea Right Stan I have a Dam in Panama. Would you like to buy it? I’ll sell it cheap as I need to pay for my water & electricity bills along with my affordable health insurance.
FFA, be snarky if you like, but the fact of the matter is that governmental regulations for both water and energy keep prices low for the masses. When regulation is removed, prices skyrocket. This is not theory. Look at Enron’s raping of the California energy market. Rolling blackouts, soaring costs, that is your de-regulatory default outcome, friend.
$2300 a year and your complaining???? Really? That’s it? Thats what I Pay every two months with the BCBS Choice Network.
Every time I see something like this, I know moving out of IL is the right move.
how many new doctors and nurses were added to take care of all these people? None I suspect.
Unless you propose the government start paying for students to attend medical school (not a terrible idea) there will be no more additional doctors and nurses than normal.
That may be a better use of funds. Provide education for those who really want and need it. Increase the supply of medical staff and let the laws of economics go to work.
Actually, many, many doctors have retired, sold their practices because they don’t want to put up with it. Another truth is there will be a big shortage of doctors in the coming years and people will be relegated to doc in the boxes for treatment which will be substandard.
Do you have any links to support “there will be a big shortage of doctors in the coming years”?
I found: “Concerns that the nation faces a looming physician shortage, particularly in primary care specialties, are common,” wrote an expert panel of the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in a report on the financing of graduate medical education in July. “The committee did not find credible evidence to support such claims.”
It’s that last line which has me questioning your “another truth” about the potential doctor shortage in the future.
Seems like these doctors would have more customers if more people have insurance. Wouldn’t that benefit them? And I guess if they can afford to retire, earlier than originally planned, because they don’t want to “put up with it” then they must have done okay. I don’t feel sorry for them.
SW, so what you are saying then is a doctor who went through College, Medical School, Residency, piling up huge debt and finally started practicing in his late 20’s, early 30’s should be willing to work twice as hard for half the money and accept much less re-imbursement for his service from Obamacare, Medicare & Medicaid in order to keep working in his chosen profession. These doctors also are employers with administrative people, nurses, PA’s payroll plus numerous other expenses so he is supposed to just eat that, right? Not surprising to me they are quitting or selling their practice.
Agent,
Please go work on your reading comprehension (before you say anything, I will work on my typing, spelling and grammar).
SWFL Agent said none of those things. Do you any credible proof that these doctors are or will be working twice as hard for half the money?
Still being childish and upvoting your own comments a bunch and downvoting comments so much that you get them hidden, huh Agent?
Paranoid, Rosenblatt?
Yes, Rosenblatt thinks it is perfectly fine for him and Libby to hide my posts, but when I retaliate, he doesn’t like it so well. They do it on other Conservative posters like Bob as well. They can dish it out, but can’t take it. Sorry to tell them that they are not in charge and will not dominate this blog.
Libs have ruined America,
It is not paranoia if Agent has admitted to such behavior.
Agent is a very insecure person who needs “Likes” to validate his positions because he has no facts, especially data.
Agent – I only hit dislike on your posts the same amount of times as you hit like. I do not intentionally hide your posts. Also, I only up-vote my own comments when you’ve hidden them.
You are the only one between the two of us who is hiding posts.
PS Agent – You only hide my posts as retaliation? Liar. Your posts on this thread are all showing yet you’ve hidden two of mine. That is not retaliating. That is you initiating this BS.
Anyone in the insurance industry should understand that before the Affordable Care Act, people with preexisting medical conditions, who didn’t have coverage through their employer, were denied coverage. Without the mandate that everyone buy health insurance, there is adverse selection and insurers can’t afford to provide the coverage to those who need it most. The only other alternative, which most developed nations have, is state-provided coverage (Medicare for all).
Apparently, Judith, you have never heard of the many State Pools to cover the uninsured before which were in effect prior to Obamacare. With Obamacare, these uninsured have had the effect of forcing rates up for everyone with those nasty mandates and the numerous medical conditions these people had. Does a woman in her 50’s really need Maternity or a young man? Do young men need birth control pills? No wonder the rates for young men are so high. I maintain that we have adverse selection under Obamacare since it is a one size fits all and no one can opt out of the unneeded coverage. Pools should be allowed to cover pre-existing conditions people and they should pay a higher rate and let the healthy pay the lower rate.
Agent,
The problem with State Pools or any other residual market is cost. It was prohibitive to most people who needed to go there for coverage. It was cheaper for them to go to the hospital, build up a huge bill, then file bankruptcy. Please tell uis how that is a good system?
You said, ” Does a woman in her 50’s really need Maternity or a young man? Do young men need birth control pills?” I have never had an employer provided plan that let me opt out of coverages I did not want. How is this different?
Please google adverse selection, then re-read your post. The PPACA mandate is the antithesis of adverse selection.
Ron, the problem with Obamacare is cost, poor coverage, high deductibles, high out of pocket expense. It is cost prohibitive to all Americans. Do you think it “fair” to subject all Americans to pay for something they didn’t want to cover a small proportion of the population? Do you think it is fair to mix in all the pre-ex people into the healthy pool which forces up rates? Please take another Economics course. Your reasoning is flawed.
Agent,
Will you ever actually comprehend my posts before replying? Where in my posts did I defend the PPACA directly?
If it was cost prohibitive to all Americans, nobody would have health insurance.
I did not say that the PPACA is the solution. I was only pointing out why State Pools were not a realistic option for most people who were denied coverage.
You already know that I am against the PPACA in its current form. I am an advocate for Universal Health Care, American style.
You asked, “Do you think it “fair” to subject all Americans to pay for something they didn’t want to cover a small proportion of the population?” If we are the supposed Christian nation you righties preach about, then YES!!!!!
You asked, “Do you think it is fair to mix in all the pre-ex people into the healthy pool which forces up rates?” YES!!!! If you have any basic undersatnding of the insurance mechanism, then you would agree. You never know when you will be the one who has an expensive surgery, treatments, prescriptions, or rehab, and then a pre-existing condition. Will you want your health insurance premiums to sky rocket because you or your wife got sick and/or injured?
Ron, will you ever comprehend basic Economics before starting your tirades? We know you are a big Progressive advocate of Government Healthcare. You are all in favor of forced government insurance because it fits your agenda. You are still re-arranging the deck chairs on the biggest scam in American History. Universal Healthcare would dwarf the costs of Obamacare with a massive new agency to administer it and it would be every bit as substandard in coverage, cost as what we have now. Government bureaucrats in charge of anything is idiocy of the highest order. Look at what VA has done. That is a microcosm of what Universal Healthcare would be like.
Agent,
I answered your questions directly. Why can you not extend the same courtesy?
1. Where in my posts did I defend the PPACA directly?
2. You said, ”Does a woman in her 50’s really need Maternity or a young man? Do young men need birth control pills?” I have never had an employer provided plan that let me opt out of coverages I did not want. How is this different?
3. Will you want your health insurance premiums to sky rocket because you or your wife got sick and/or injured?
4. Did you google adverse selection? Do you understand that any mandated insurance eliminates adverse selection as a risk?
5. Do you understand how the spreading of risk works within the insurance mechanism?
6. How will increasing taxes on the middle and lower classes, while maintaing the tax rates on the upper classes help the economy?
7. You said, “Universal Healthcare would dwarf the costs of Obamacare with a massive new agency to administer it and it would be every bit as substandard in coverage, cost as what we have now.” Is this your opinion or due have real data to back this up?
Ron, why do you continue to engage Agent? He is incapable of answering questions directly because if he did he would be forced to recognize the inconsistency of his views. His small Texan head would probably explode, ruining a ten-gallon cowboy hat in the process.
So Agent, why do you continue to engage Stan? He is an Underemployed College Grad that don’t work in our industry and has no real world experience. His childish rants attacking the Been There Done That feet on the ground real world experienced agents in this blog leave him with no credible comments.
Then he should have worked on the State Pools instead of ruining health care for everyone even though he promised we can keep our plans & doctors and the average Joe would realize a cost savings before he did away with a max oop.
FFA,
I don’t disagree with you. However, health care has been a significant issue for tens of millions of Americans for decades and nobody was willing to do anything about it. While I like some of the Republican ideas, they would not solve the real drivers increasing health care costs.
What would be your solution for fixing the state pools so people ineligible for the open maket can obtain health care that is not cost prohibitive? Do you raise taxes so we can subsidize their premiums? Do we create a network of doctors and hospitals that will take less money to treat these people? What level of care would result?
When the number 1 reason for bankruptcies is health care costs, that cannot be ignored.
So Ron, where did you get the Algorithms that would prove that Republican ideas would not solve the drivers of healthcare costs? You seem ready to jump over into the realm of Universal Healthcare. How about furnishing us the complete information of how government would solve all problems. Their track record is abysmal. Just today, Healthcare.gov made a huge blunder and sent wrong tax info to 800,000 enrollees. Is that a good example of government efficiency? Don’t give us any more nonsense about how government is helping the folks. It is idiocy.
Ron “What would be your solution for fixing the state pools so people ineligible for the open maket can obtain health care that is not cost prohibitive?”
A much smaller and less costly version of the PPACA.
“Do you raise taxes so we can subsidize their premiums?”
MAybe… That increase would be no where near where it is going to end up at. Everyone would be better off. Cost of the web site to every tax payor has got to be over $10.00 by now.
“Do we create a network of doctors and hospitals that will take less money to treat these people? What level of care would result?”
A topic to research….
A State Senator of ours stated it would less costly to put every uninsured person in IL on a Traditional HMO and it would cost the state less.
Question back at you – Have you signed anyone up for this coverage?
Has anyone but me signed anyone up for this coverage?
No matter what Web Site (Carrier of Healthcare.gov), who has experience – other then for yourself – with this process?
Agent,
I am not answering any more of your questions until you answer mine.
1. Where in my posts did I defend the PPACA directly?
2. You said, ”Does a woman in her 50’s really need Maternity or a young man? Do young men need birth control pills?” I have never had an employer provided plan that let me opt out of coverages I did not want. How is this different?
3. Will you want your health insurance premiums to sky rocket because you or your wife got sick and/or injured?
4. Did you google adverse selection? Do you understand that any mandated insurance eliminates adverse selection as a risk?
5. Do you understand how the spreading of risk works within the insurance mechanism?
6. How will increasing taxes on the middle and lower classes, while maintaing the tax rates on the upper classes help the economy?
7. You said, “Universal Healthcare would dwarf the costs of Obamacare with a massive new agency to administer it and it would be every bit as substandard in coverage, cost as what we have now.” Is this your opinion or due have real data to back this up?
Judith, Most states had a pool set up for the Pre X crowd. It was there. It was available.
AGENT – LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION FOR THE 7TH TIME. I AM WRITING IN ALL CAPS HOPING YOU WILL TAKE THIS QUESTION SERIOUSLY AND ANSWER ME.
IF I AGREE NOT TO DISLIKE POSTS MORE THAN ONCE (YOURS, BOBS, WHOEVER), DO YOU AGREE TO NOT INTENTIONALLY DOWN-VOTE POSTS MANY MANY TIMES IN ORDER TO HIDE THEM?
THAT SEEMS FAIR, YES?
DO YOU AGREE TO THIS TRUCE?
Just so you all know, I am going to downvote Agent’s posts no matter what he does because he is a fool who should not be taken seriously in any capacity.
This is the source of most of your stupidity.
Every single human has aspects that should be taken seriously. It is that you should never take everything someone says, not that you should avoid any influence.
This is actually what a conservative has been labeled to do (in general) by liberals. Block out any output that doesn’t meet their preconceived notions of right or wrong.
I make a point of calling Agent out when I need to, and agreeing when it is appropriate. I do this same thing with Libby (though our arguments stick out more, because she pisses me off often).
It allows progressive natures.
Boob, you have never once called out Agent for his ridiculousness. Once you do, Ill begin to take things that you say seriously.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
AH HAHAHAHAHA
WRONG.
I have specifically called out agent on numerous occasions, and told him I disagree, and I have several times told him to watch his republican comments as we have a duty to represent the conservative side of things well.
That is my version of calling him an extremist. When he is of course.
Why are you laughing, Booby? Did something confuse you and now youre compensating?
And “duty to represent” is not calling out Agent. Kind of like asking someone to not kill people is not the same as incarcerating for murder.
Stan,
When I tell him that, the duty to represent the conservative side,
IT IS BECAUSE HE SAID SOMETHING SO FALSE I CORRECT HIM.
I have numerous times told him I disagreed.
I am laughing not to compensate, but rather because you are so idiotic, you have missed agent and I disagreeing.
I have several times told him that he was focusing on something that was wrong. Several.
I have then told him what the real issue is. If that isn’t calling someone wrong I don’t know what is.
You miss that because with him I do it respectfully, more indirect. When I tell him “I wouldn’t say that. Really it is about this”. That is me saying “You’re wrong, here is what is correct”.
Agent often then disagrees again, and I just say “meh” and move on.
Bob, I often disagree with you as well. I give you a semi pass since you are from a very liberal state of Washington. You are also very wordy and drone on forever, paragraph after paragraph as you are trying to stay up with Rosenblatt for longest posts saying very little. By the way, I hope you get rid of Patti Murray the next go around. She is a very bad Senator. If Arkansas can get rid of Pryor and Louisiana can get rid of Landrieu, Washington can get rid of Murray.
Agent, you are in no position to give anyone a pass on anything. Maybe if you apologized for ruining the country, but otherwise, I suggest you say thank you, and head on your way.
So hold on, did Stan just essentially tell Agent I don’t get a pass on being Liberal?
…So…I shouldn’t be liberal then right? I never can grasp Stan’s logics.
Murray is not something I’m proud of. I can be very wordy going over large aspects. I try to keep it as sort as I can.
Stan–you are Rosenbrat are such whiners! Grow up!! Waaa Waaa Waaa….do you suck your thumb, too??
troll
Hey Libs, Rosenblatt, Libby, Ron & Stan have anger management issues. They just can’t understand how all their Progressive theories have gone to h — in a hand basket. They have chosen the wrong leader saying and doing all the wrong things and swallowed the propaganda hook, line & sinker. Like all good Progressives, they then turn to the art of the insult and make complete fools of themselves. I will close by quoting a great American.
“My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government”. – Thomas Jefferson
Agent,
You put that quote on your post yet advocate for more government, increased taxes, and supported presidents who actually increased the size of the government, Reagan and GW Bush.
Agent, you’re STILL trying to say I chose the wrong leader? You’re an idiot. I’ve already told you a dozen times that I didn’t cast one vote for Obama and I voted Republican in the recent mid-term elections.
For someone who says not to assume what someone thinks or does, you’re assuming a lot on this one lately.
And are going after my posts by your admission above. So if Agent doesn’t stop, you will balance out the things you are so sure that he is doing.
If you paid attention, there are some posts that definitely show it isn’t agent doing it. I have my own personal guesses, and I thought it was agent too. But I have specifically called agent an idiot (not directly but he would take it as such) on a few issues and had a horde of likes with few dislikes. If he were balancing it out he would go after those.
I haven’t disliked any posts here, for the record. I make a point of it.
I think we should all agree not to do that.
Bob, Agent has admitted multiple times in the past — and even in this thread! — that he intentionally manipulates the voting system.
I’m not assuming anything or putting words in his mouth – he’s already admitted that he does it.
As for your opinion that we should all agree not to manipulate the voting system – THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I’M TRYING TO ACHIEVE!!
This is the reason why I have asked Agent 8 times over many threads if he would be willing to call a truce with me on this voting stuff.
I’m willing to stop this behavior if Agent is willing too. It’s on him to answer me to say if he really is willing to stop this nonsense.
edit: I’ve only asked him 7 times, not 8
Then take the lead and do it yourself.
I’m not talking about just this time where he said he’s retaliating against you.
Agent has had people go after him considerably with the dislikes.
He does do it. Some other conservatives do as well balance out with likes (not dislikes).
What I am saying, is that a few people here do. The best way to solve it is not to say you will stop if someone else stops, and then by default say you will do it if you see it done. In the future, you might think it is him and it isn’t, and as a result continue after he has stopped.
Just stop. That easy.
Boob, please leave the forum. Youre not adding anything substantive. Take Agent with you.
Your insanity is immeasurable.
You don’t add anything here Stan.
You have the capability to extrapolate data of a 5 year old, and it isn’t due to lack of intelligence.
It is due to clear allegiance and indoctrination issues. You don’t question the right things. You label who to listen to as if it was football. This isn’t some fraternity Stan, of which I am sure you were part of one based on your attitude (Am I right, Stan?)
My family and I have no allegiances. My PHD grad brother is specifically not democrat due to saying post grad students disregard SCIENCE in the name of politics, and you seem to be one of those.
I think you could have potential, if you drop the labeling, the bias, the cliques, popularity, and this absurd black and white crap.
So bob, am I correct that your suggestion is that I stop trying to resolve this matter like an adult? Are you saying I should stop trying to reach a cease-fire agreement with someone I know is messing with the votes, and instead just allow people to manipulate the votes and hide any posts whenever they want to, and not say or do anything about it?
If that’s what you’re saying (please correct me if I’m wrong), that’s a horrible suggestion —- basically “do nothing and hope it will get better.” I can’t get behind that at all.
What you just said, wasn’t adult to me. It was condescending and rude, and is why you have no success with Agent.
Your condescending truce, is actually your way of telling him not to defend himself. Hello hypocrite child, now I’ll start with the insults, as you deserve it.
Moving on: Yes. The best way to deal with this is not to tell him unless he agrees to a truce you will keep on being a brat.
The way to do it is to say “Come on agent, I have stopped disliking your posts, could you do the same?”.
Not “I will stop when you do! Na na na na na!”
You ignornat brat. Yes, I’m throwing in direct insults, due to your condescending tone, and will accept nothing less form you than “I should do better, sorry about that”.
As a matter of fact I was not in a fraternity. Couldnt afford it. Had to spend my money on health insurance instead.
Were you in a fraternity, Boob?
“What you just said, wasn’t adult to me. It was condescending and rude.”
I’m sorry you got that impression from my post. I was simply asking you if I understood what you were suggesting and, if I didn’t get the gist of your post right, that I’d like you to better explain what you were suggesting I do. Hence the “please correct me if I’m wrong” part.
Asking “I think you’re saying THIS, am I right – is that what you’re saying? If I’m wrong, please correct me” is an adult question no matter how you try to slice it.
“You ignornat brat. Yes, I’m throwing in direct insults, due to your condescending tone”
Love you too, bob.
Once again I will politely ask that you take my words at face value and do not try to read a deeper meaning into what I didn’t actually write.
If you had simply read the words I posted, you wouldn’t have thought I was being rude or condescending as your only conclusion would’ve been “Rosenblatt asked me twice if what he typed is really what I was trying to say, and he specifically asked me to point out where he was wrong if he misunderstood my suggestion. That’s a valid question to ensure there’s no confusion or misunderstanding.”
Stan,
I was not in a fraternity, no.
But at least you asked nicely so I’ll answer.
I think I see your issue here, and I have been ignoring it.
This isn’t fraternity style allegiance.
This is desperation. You couldn’t afford insurance yourself, and you believe the democrats will fix it.
You’re looking to the wrong people.
No reply to my last post, bob?
I sometimes it is best to ignore overly childish people like you after I have already made the point, and the person clearly isn’t going to make progress.
I didn’t read your other post. And I won’t.
The only reason I just even read this one that you asked if I was going to reply is that I suddenly felt sorry for Stan, and decided to see if he commented.
You are more or less the type of person who causes evil.
It isn’t evil people that cause the spread of evil. People don’t like them, people don’t follow them.
However you, with your last comment, saying should you not be adult and try to resolve the situation, does make evil look good.
You were doing the wrong thing,
And you tried to appear adult while doing it, like a brat.
I don’t proceed forward with people like that.
I do the right thing:
Which is rebuke the hell out of them,
And then wipe the dirt off my sandals.
Which ironically, the evil person then uses to say : GASP!! YOU INSULTED ME!!! That’s so not ok!
Oh my goodness! I’ve never seen that happen before! (Sarcasm)
This is far past being worth my effort.
Boob, you wear sandals? Let me guess, Tevas? Just like the good Lord.
OMFG bob, you are too much. I mean that in the most insincere and negative way possible.
A child’s mentality would start with the insults, continue them when the other person hasn’t stooped down to that level, and refuses to read a reply even though the other person has been trying to keep it a civil discussion without any insults thrown your way.
You’re basically sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “nananananan I can’t hear you” yet I’m the overtly childish one.
Hypocrite
Rosenblatt, I have had enough of your pestering behavior. You and your minions hide my posts all the time. The other day, I came in from an appointment, pulled up the article and at least 8 posts were hidden. I am not going to let you and Libby hide my posts or Bob who is also assaulted with dislikes to the point of being hidden. You Progressives are something else, but Conservatives are undeterred and will keep on getting our views read and if your post is bad enough, yes I will get after you.
Agent, has it ever occured to you that people just think your posts are needlessly combative and poorly written? Maybe you should write something that people agree with if you’re so concerned about hidden posts? There are consequences for being a big dumb Texan, and hidden posts are probably the least of your worries.
“Rosenblatt, I have had enough of your pestering behavior.”
You know how to stop that in the future, Agent? Just answer the damn question the first time. It’s that simple. Then I wouldn’t have to pester you 7+ times for an answer to a single question!
The posts are still there, and can be read. Why such a big deal?
KY – I kept asking that question as Agent has ignored it in ~7 other threads he is (or was) participating in. It was a suggested solution to one of his recurring complaints.
I’m a little surprised that the Like & Dislike voting has become a touchy issue. Does it really matter?
Apparently the content of a post, which becomes more meaningless daily, is nowhere near as important as the thumbs up/thumbs down numbers. Ridiculous. Here’s a novel idea – maybe posts could be insurance related, related to the article at hand, or have some semblance of substance.
Sometimes, I like the discord. It provides just a little humor, and a lot of eye rolling. Although, it would be nice to stick to the topic, that, Insurance Nerd, won’t happen.
Kids will be kids and detract from the issue at hand.
And when I say doing it, I realize that he does sometimes counter balance likes.
There are however times you think he is, and he isn’t.
Not all these like dislike wars are agent. Maybe we shouldn’t assume and then make it ok to do the like dislike wars.
As I said: Just don’t dislike posts.
Sadly, I don’t see this happening here, bob.
Rosenblatt, if you can guarantee me that Libby, you, Ron, Stan will stop hiding my comments and Bob’s, you may have a deal. Sorry, but I hardly think that will be successful. Progressives are not in charge of this blog. When I see mine and Bob’s comments hidden by an avalanche of dislikes, I will respond in kind.
Agent,
I do not “Like” or “Dislike” any posts because I believe ther is no value in engaging in such childish behavior.
Agent – all I’m asking is that ***YOU AND I*** have a truce and don’t intentionally hide each other’s posts. This is between you and me — it has no impact on you taking the hide-post action against anyone else and you can still defend yourself as you see fit. As a show of good faith to come to this truce, I agree not to downvote bob’s posts even once if you’re willing to accept this truce.
Rosenblatt, please wake up and smell the coffee. Your minions are doing the majority of downvoting and hiding my posts. I don’t know if it is you or them, just that it happens. I get attacked when I haven’t made my first post on an article just because Ron can. Therefore, when I see my posts hidden, I will downvote every liberal post I see within 10 posts. Sorry, that is the way it will be.
You are something else Agent. I’m telling you I won’t downvote you or bob if you don’t downvote me, and your reply is “Even though Rosenbaltt just told me he was willing to stop, so I would know it wasn’t him and I shouldn’t take it out on him, screw that – I’m still going to do it to him.”
I can not come up with the proper insults for you, Agent. Idiot. Hypocrite. Liar. Troll. Dumbass. I mean, none of those do you justice. I needed help with this.
If you were twice as smart, you’d still be stupid.
I’d like to see things from your point of view but I can’t seem to get my head that far up my @ss.
Is your @ss jealous of the amount of sh1t that comes out of your mouth?
You’re about as useful as Anne Frank’s drum kit.
I don’t have the time nor crayons to explain this on your level.
Somewhere out there is a tree, tirelessly producing oxygen so you can breathe. I think you owe it an apology.
That was a great description of Agent, Rosenblatt. I told you guys all along that you cant be civil with him, hes just too dumb. Doesnt this worry you, knowing that the Agent’s of the world can vote?
Nice comment Rosenblatt. You just proved what a peach of a guy you are. We have had a few weeks of détente here and there and then you fall back into your true nature. If you want a truce, you may want to not comment on any of my posts and I will leave yours alone. We can agree to vehemently disagree on every subject. It is too bad you cannot control your fellow trolls.
Agent, here is your chance to be a non-troll.
1) do you believe in the legalization of marijuana at the federal level so as to leave the matter open for individual states to decide?
“We have had a few weeks of détente here and there.” No we didn’t – you never stopped being an insulting hypocritical troll with poor reading comprehension skills.
“…I will leave yours alone.” Liar. You still can’t stop bringing me into conversations I’m not participating in just so you can insult me. Like you did today –> http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/02/19/358049.htm
“It is too bad you cannot control your fellow trolls.” Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Because it’s so easy to control what people post on the internet. (end sarcasm) Dumbass.
One last one….
“We can agree to vehemently disagree on every subject”
I didn’t vote for Obama and don’t think he’s a great president — that means you disagree with me and think he is a great president!
I voted Republican in the last election – that means you disagree with me and think voters should’ve voted for the Democrats!
Shocker, once again, when the rubber meets the road and Agent is asked to make a substantive decision, he is silent as a Texas fart. Classic republicans, against everything and for nothing other than failure.
Agent, you’re a disservice to this country. And I mean that as nicely as possible.
For Godsake, it is a post on an insurance website that can still be read even if ‘hidden’. Why is this so incredibly important? No one outside of this little blog, and some of us inside the little blog, really cares about this! You can still see the posts – it’s become a stupid pissing match. Put your pacifiers away and let it go.
Here’s one for all you lefties:
Rudy Giuliani is 100% correct!!!!
Have a nice day!
I like Rudy. He is the best mayor NY has ever had and a sharp guy. He sees things with clear eyes and is not bashful when he points out the errors of the Progressive agenda.