Responsibility for this disaster goes to Obama, Pelosi, and Reid. The supporting cast of Gruber, Ezeikel Emmanuel, and Valerie Jarrett receive second place prizes for the disaster imposed on US citizens.
Insurers will be blamed by Socialist / Communist Democrats… who have repeatedly blamed others for the failure of the bill they developed behind closed, locked doors which had new locks installed at that time per Harry Reid’s order.
Also passing out blame to others, mostly TRUE* Republicans who didn’t cast a single vote* for the ACA disaster, is the Liberal Mainstream Media.
Finally, blame will be cast on TrumPresident by the Libitterals inhabiting this IJ comments board, indirectly at the behest of George Soros – who sponsors all manners of resistance against his plan for Global World Order.
* – one RINO, who held a seat in the HoR for ONE term, cast a vote for ACA. There were strong doubts as to his loyalty to his constituents and to the Republican Party’s fiscal / social philosophy… as evidenced by said vote for ACA. He was ousted from the HoR, along with many of the Dems who voted for ACA, shortly after ACA was enacted and implemented.
Here’s a re-post, due to the efforts of Libitterals to censor my comments….
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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Responsibility for this disaster goes to Obama, Pelosi, and Reid. The supporting cast of Gruber, Ezeikel Emmanuel, and Valerie Jarrett receive second place prizes for the disaster imposed on US citizens.
Insurers will be blamed by Socialist / Communist Democrats… who have repeatedly blamed others for the failure of the bill they developed behind closed, locked doors which had new locks installed at that time per Harry Reid’s order.
Also passing out blame to others, mostly TRUE* Republicans who didn’t cast a single vote* for the ACA disaster, is the Liberal Mainstream Media.
Finally, blame will be cast on TrumPresident by the Libitterals inhabiting this IJ comments board, indirectly at the behest of George Soros – who sponsors all manners of resistance against his plan for Global World Order.
* – one RINO, who held a seat in the HoR for ONE term, cast a vote for ACA. There were strong doubts as to his loyalty to his constituents and to the Republican Party’s fiscal / social philosophy… as evidenced by said vote for ACA. He was ousted from the HoR, along with many of the Dems who voted for ACA, shortly after ACA was enacted and implemented.
More Counties without an ACA insurer in 2018 is a BAD thing for the short run, but a very GOOD thing for the long run future of HC and HI in the US, as well as for the economy of the US.
Make no mistake about the reason this market contraction is occurring; the ACA was devised to FAIL, in a Death Spiral. The Death Spiral is caused by the inclusion of High Cost pool risks in the general pool of risks, the approximately 2200 exemptions granted by The Obama Administration to firms and unions that favor Dems at the polls, and the meager penalties for not insuring. Further, Jonathan Gruber’s comments in several instances point to the psychological approach the Obama Administration took in their plan to move to a Single Payer HC system in the US.
Fortunately, we can now and in the future be thankful that The Will of The People of the US helped avoid the disaster of a Single Payer Socialist HC System.
Polar, I like the threat to remove the subsidies for the gold plated Congressional Health Plan which was carved out and kept separate from the Obamacare law. Should have been done several months ago. Perhaps we can see movement now that the legislators will be subject to the same as the citizens.
The removal of the $8B subsidy to health insurers will shift costs to consumers, thus accelerating, albeit painfully, the collapse of ACA, and increase calls for Congress to repeal it and enable the HI industry to fix the disaster caused by ACA. The shell game designed by Gruber and Emmanuel is coming to an abrupt end.
That’s a whole lot of spaghetti on the wall to see what will stick, “Bear-amucci”
Uncertainty in the marketplace couldn’t possibly result from…uncertainty in the marketplace. With incompetence in the White House and on Capitol Hill, why would any insurer enter a new market or even invest more money in markets they are already in, since they don’t know what Trump will do tomorrow? He has already said he wants it to implode and wants it done by any measure.
In the face of all that half-baked rhetoric, would it be fiscally responsible for any carrier to then go “Hmm, Iowa seems like a good place to do business.”
Well informed voters understand that the democrats have expressed a willingness to work with Republicans on fixing the flaws of the PPACA. They also know that republicans have shut them out and refuse to take repeal off of the table solely because they ran on a failed promise.
Uninformed voters will blame anything adverse on whichever party has the power today. They have no interest in becoming educated on what happened in the past. Furthermore, they will say, “We gave the keys to the car to the Republicans to fix the health care/insurance market and they turned the key to start the car, but could not figure out how to put it in drive.
All you have left are die hard Republicans and Trump supporters (less than 40%).
@Capt Platitude: Ron wins YOUR internet today. Reasonable people will withhold judgement with regard to what Dems propose to fix the DISASTER THEY ALONE IMPOSED on American citizens.
Single Payer has NEVER been presented in any meaningful legislation.
I predict that, if Democrats regain control of Congress in 2018, you will see a law crafted in 2019 to finally have a serious debate upon the merits of Single Payer instead of all the rhetoric.
How’s Single Payer working at the VA? In Cana-duh (where I know a few people who work in the medical field) and in the UK, where Charlie Gard recently passed away under a SP system?
Dems regaining Congress is as laughable as SP being viable and successful. In the Senate, 23 Dem seats are up for re-election versus 8 Republican seats. Hold 23 and flip 3 of 8? Laughing my Ossoff!
Polar, I’m not advocating a Single Payer system but I do want to keep our facts straight. I’ve spent way too much time around Canadians and when I ask about their healthcare the answer from all is about the same: “not perfect but better than yours”. So I’m not so sure it’s all that bad. Maybe doctors make less in CAN. So what? Maybe CAB makes 85 year olds wait for a knee replacement. So what?
August 3, 2017 at 6:01 pm
Agent says:
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Polar, the English put their elderly on the pathway to death. What a great system!
August 4, 2017 at 9:17 am
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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@ SWFLAgent; How much do you ask Canadians you know about their healthcare? I spoke to friends and their relatives who work(ed) in hospitals for many years… back to the 80’s. Which set of Canadian witnesses have more credibility on the subject?
August 4, 2017 at 2:36 pm
integrity matters says:
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UW – So, are you saying that the healthcare “system” is the number one driver of life expectancy in a civilized country?
Please think before you post ridiculous statements.
August 4, 2017 at 5:19 pm
UW says:
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Bob, that link wasn’t to a receipt for mental health services, so scram. It also, as always, didn’t support your claims. it’s about a type of price negotiation, aka appraisal process, and compares with other similar health care systems. You don’t read links or studies, much less understand them.
Don’t leave a 10000 word rant, full of lies and links to right-wing BS, I won’t read it without proof of mental health assistance. Your rants, meltdowns, lies, insults, and constant personal threats, combined with immediate switches in personality are disturbing. I won’t engage it, get help.
August 4, 2017 at 5:31 pm
UW says:
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Also, Lord Geniua Bob, look at the data for the study they cite or look up papers citing it. It’s not credible. In the appendix 4/11 malignancies they looked at were not statistically significant at 0.05 confidence level, 3 actually showed more deaths in the US, and 2 avoided breast & prostate cancer which have significant lead time and over diagnosis. There is a whole list of critiques there showing that, as with most right wind “studies” it simply doesn’t hold up to basic inquiry.
Have Yogi pretend to explain it to you with his fake statistics degree and then you can both pretend to debate it and agree that Libiterals are reverse racists for not believing Obama was born in Kenya.
August 2, 2017 at 7:28 am
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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In the HoR, the margin is so hyuuuge, the thought of a flip to a Dem rule is as laughable as anything you’ve ever posted here on IJ.
“Anthem Inc., Cigna Corp., Health Care Service Corp. and Molina Healthcare, four of the biggest health insurers selling Obamacare plans, said they are weighing whether to pull out of more markets for 2018 rather than face financial losses.”
In other words…if tax payers are not willing to bend over and pay us for the underwriting loss the government forced on us, we (the company) will go out of business. It’s called math liberals. Learn some!
Democrats who INTENTIONALLY broke Health Care and Health Insurance in 2010 are willing to work with Republicans to fix it in 2017? Really?!!! So, why did 50 recently vote ‘NO’?
Correct. Idiots lost their minds, and US citizens are paying dearly for it, over the last 7 years.
August 4, 2017 at 2:22 pm
UW says:
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“Paying” with less expensive healthcare, more coverage market recoveries, increased employment, and more rights to more people. Sorry your rich person, white supremacy took a step back, but you guys are working hard to get it back on track.
August 4, 2017 at 2:52 pm
integrity matters says:
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UW – What world do you live in? Seriously. Are you in a bubble with five other people?
There is NO ONE on this board that does not want affordable healthcare for every American. Yes, Americans. Illegal aliens do not belong here and DO NOT have any US Constitutional Rights in this country, especially healthcare. Obviously, if there is an emergency, we will provide care to them, but then we should ship them back and send the bill to their country.
That would save BILLIONS of dollars. So much so, that it would actually make healthcare coverage more affordable for the LEGAL Americans and immigrants.
If you and other Libbies want to pay for the illegal aliens healthcare, you have the right to do so out of your own pocket. Feel free to adopt one. But, stop trying to reach into my pocket. I prefer to spend my money and donate to support the ministries that are important to me.
August 4, 2017 at 3:57 pm
bob says:
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Integrity my man, well said.
We need you in here more often.
August 4, 2017 at 5:01 pm
integrity matters says:
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Thanks, Bob. I try to be here as often as possible, but I have been extremely busy.
August 4, 2017 at 5:09 pm
UW says:
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Not one thing I said is debatable. It’s all been backed over and over by facts but nice job shifting to illegal immigrants, a completely different topic,clown.
August 4, 2017 at 5:48 pm
integrity matters says:
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Okay, UW. Put up or shut up!
Let’s see the links to details of each of those items you say are not debatable. And it better be for the WHOLE (make it the majority, if not the whole) country, not just one state or county where there is some remote success.
With regards to the immigration statements, it was on the topic of healthcare. Do you know how many BILLIONS of dollars are spent on healthcare for illegal immigrants? You continue to be in a fantasy bubble if you do not think the illegal immigration problem has an impact on the cost of healthcare in this country.
August 6, 2017 at 1:15 pm
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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UW said on 8/4 at 2:22 pm that healthcare under ACA is less expensive, and employment rose. Laughable, at best.
Of course, ‘less expensive’ could be interpreted by liberals as less expensive for those who now get it FREE, whereas they had to pay a premium if they wanted it in the past. Sigh.
August 8, 2017 at 12:57 pm
integrity matters says:
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UW
Pardon me, I was too general. Illegal aliens have very limited rights under the US Constitution’ 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments. They are limited to those rights pertaining to due process, search and seizure and the right to sue or be sued. They do not have the same rights as a US Citizen, otherwise.
So much for you following IJ’s request to stop the insults and their removing posts that do.
I am still waiting for you to provide the links proving Obamacare is working. I admitted that I was wrong. Are you man or woman enough to do the same?
August 4, 2017 at 12:52 pm
bob says:
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“Well informed voters understand that the democrats have expressed a willingness to work with Republicans on fixing the flaws of the PPACA. They also know that republicans have shut them out and refuse to take repeal off of the table solely because they ran on a failed promise.”
Well informed voters will understand the whole bill needs to go. It’s 2,700 pages of over regulation, and the democrats failed to predict anything that the bill did. You keep bills simple to succeed. Being willing to modify the ACA, was solely political. The republicans did not shut out the democrats from a new bill, which is what needs to happens, democrats took their bill, and were prepared to die on it, and shut out all other debate.
“Uninformed voters will blame anything adverse on whichever party has the power today.”
DING DING DING DING DING. This is what you do, rather than assessing what occurred.
“They have no interest in becoming educated on what happened in the past.”
DING DING DING DING DING. What I’ve been telling you, for example, with regards to spending that occurred during Reagan’s tenure.
“Furthermore, they will say, “We gave the keys to the car to the Republicans to fix the health care/insurance market and they turned the key to start the car, but could not figure out how to put it in drive.”
An ignorant metaphor that is not only predicting how others will think, in order to assume they will defend the party on your named specifics, rather than listening to what they say. Shocking. I know. Listening? Holy cow. The democrats did not work with republicans on this one.
Actually, Ron, truly informed voters will:
1) Realize that the Democrats plan (if it still remotely looks like Obamacare) are still lying to them,
2) DEMAND that Obamacare be repealed. Period. Then DEMAND a bill that is truly in the best interest of the majority of Americans.
3) Vote out Democrats AND Republicans that want to continue down the same path with a Obamacare-lite type plan.
Any company in business must have a reasonable expectation of being able to charge a price for a good or service that allows them to make a profit. If you cannot make even a penny in profits year after year, you eventually have to shut your doors. Obamacare never allowed for that. It was doomed from day one. Freebies for all, free immunizations, free Birth control, free child office visits, free annual physicals and on and on. Don’t get me wrong, I like free stuff as much as the next guy. But nothing in life is free. Every one of these things should at least have some sort of copay. Help to offset the cost. We make it harder and harder for the physician and insurance company to do business, more and more paperwork and regulation. Any new plan needs several things: cafeteria style options, not everyone needs maternity, or children coverage, some are simply out of that market or never in it. Some want just catastrophic and don’t care to get a free flu shot, let that be sold. Lower drug costs, force other countries to pay us for drug development and testing done in the U.S., recoup some of that money instead we develop at the cost of billions and then let other countries demand we sell the drugs to them at set prices while US consumers and carriers pay for inflated costs to cover the development. It should not take 15+ years to get something to market. Overregulation needs to stop, less bureaucracy. If you want to say no to health insurance, let them say no. Toss the in network hospitals and out of network doctors. Not allowed. No one should have to be asking each provider they see at an in network hospital if they are in network, too. Single payer would be a disaster. Can you imagine the VA style of medical care for 300 million? We need simplicity, and transparency. If the Dems are sincere about working together, that’s great, however, past experience was their way or nothing else. And as for the republicans, get your act together. If you voted repeal all these years, was that all just show? What’s your issue now? No one is going to win come January 1 2018, when it all comes crashing down. Keeping it as it is is not an answer democrats, it’s held together with duct tape and baling wire and that is fast unraveling. Time for everyone to put on their big person panties and deal with the situation and fix it.
@Agent; Txlady isn’t on the list of screen names Libitterals monitor here on IJ, so she won’t get down votes in multiples until she builds her reputation as a conservative.
No. Planet has literally said this before. I’m sure he’s going to walk back on it though, be disingenuous, and now claim that we need to work to fix it and republicans have no reason to fix a bill designed to fail.
The ADA never had a chance to be successful. It was shoved down American’s throats by a democratic congress that had very little idea what was actually in it. Those members of congress were just dying to be able to vote for socialized medicine in any form so that they could say that they did.
ADA was both a poster child and a magnet for adverse selection. The young and healthy will not buy it and the sick & terminally ill want it…..for free, of course. So people who neglected to care for themselves in the least whilst young, suddenly needed medical care to fix what they spent their lives breaking. And who in their right mind would think that an insurance company could take on the sick, the sickly and the unwashed of the world and manage to make ends meet ? No one who understood how it works, that’s who. Even with state and federal subsidies, this was going to be a disaster & a failure and it hasn’t disappointed as it is decidedly both !
Socialized medicine is and has been a bust everywhere it has been tried. It ain’t gonna work here either.
The problem with your and everyone else trying to use France and Netherlands as a comparison, is that you fail to consider the size (population) of those countries compared to the US as well as the poverty level affecting the people needing assistance.
France has about 65MM people, of which, only 3.7% (2.4MM people) are below the poverty level.
The Netherlands has about 17MM people and 3.3% (561,000 people) below the poverty level.
The US has a population of about 326MM people and 15% (48.9MM) are below the poverty level.
France is smaller than CA and TX combined and the Netherlands is smaller than NY. The Netherlands has less people below the poverty level than the entire population of Charlotte, NC.
You cannot fairly or quantitatively compare those countries to ours and expect that “if it works for them, it should work for us”.
Additionally, there is a stronger “work ethic” within the populous of the Netherlands than the US. Generations of democratic entitlements have “conditioned” poorer US citizens to “expect” the government to provide free stuff.
“Confused –
The problem with your and everyone else trying to use France and Netherlands as a comparison, is that you fail to consider the size (population) of those countries compared to the US as well”
Excellent points. The US is larger, and can better utilize economies of scale, saving even MORE. Good point for once, Integrity.
Here is another way to look at it. What if the Federal government completely stayed out of healthcare and left it up to the states to create their own laws regarding healthcare (you know, the way the Constitution was originally set up to work)?
How fast do you think the democratic controlled blues states (CA/NY) would last before they went bankrupt if they had their own single payer system for their residents?
In 1798 Congress, full of Founders, passed, and Adams, a Founder, signed a law creating a government operated hospital service and requiring privately employed sailors to purchase health care. Also, if you had ever read anything about the founding of the country, or the debates and creation of the Constitution, you would never argue that they would not want updates to laws and the role of government. You don’t know what you are talking about.
This doesn’t agree with conservative ideology and BS, please delete it IJ, and make sure to leave lies, smears. and threats to liberals.
What you stated was simply a common sense view to the entire idea of a law that was destined for failure. Everything about it was a lie from the beginning, especially how Obama was “advertising” it.
Common sense says you cannot add millions of sick people to an already stressed system, FOR FREE, and expect premiums to go down. The higher deductible plans were forced onto people because that was the only way to keep premiums within reach for some people.
Notice how all the idiotic conservatives ranting here for years are agents, not underwriters, actuaries, analysts, or economists, who actually analyze risk. If I wanted sales of small accounts in tiny crap markets I’d look to people like this. If I wanted actual analysis I would look to the people I’ve mentioned above, who actually make profit by smartly looking at and understanding risk, not just signing up customers.
“Notice how all the idiotic conservatives ranting here for years are agents, not underwriters, actuaries, analysts, or economists, who actually analyze risk. If I wanted sales of small accounts in tiny crap markets I’d look to people like this. If I wanted actual analysis I would look to the people I’ve mentioned above, who actually make profit by smartly looking at and understanding risk, not just signing up customers”
Ah hahahaha, oh my.
This explains a lot with you. I don’t think you can even possibly understand how much so.
You’re not a business person at all. You’re a drone somewhere based on the above, I wonder where? I’m not quite sure you are what you just said, or a producer in a targeted niche somewhere who is used to his big firm doing well based on near panzi schemes (basically over selling what they do and convincing the client they are special on a simple product and then over charging), but if you’re the latter, I eat little agents like you for lunch all the time with those suit I’m better than everyone else attitudes. I hope you’re not in my field! ;-)
UW – My discipline has been in underwriting for 30+ years. I’ve successfully underwritten all classes and sizes of businesses and have designed financial loss sensitive programs for Fortune 1000 companies. (That means that I have worked closely with actuaries and have used trending and loss development factors to determine loss picks.)
You, however, have demonstrated time and again how clueless you are in how insurance really works. If you were an underwriter, you would know that a single payer system cannot work because there is no true spread of risk. All the losses and premium are in one big pot. As the losses grow in that pot, the premium must grow with it to keep it sustainable. There is no risk taking in that model if the single payer simply gets to raise the premium anytime the losses exceed the premium.
The private market, however, takes risk by trying to choose “better clients”. They may choose correctly, or not. The better their data and decision making (aka – underwriting), the more likely they can make a profit. Competition drives prices down, because each carrier “thinks” they can underwrite better than the next carrier and offers a better price and/or terms.
Just curious…what type of coverage do you underwrite?
I am not an agent. But, if you want crap accounts in your portfolio, a Polar Bear has the ability to find good accounts and accounts that smell like fish… um, I meant stale fish.
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Responsibility for this disaster goes to Obama, Pelosi, and Reid. The supporting cast of Gruber, Ezeikel Emmanuel, and Valerie Jarrett receive second place prizes for the disaster imposed on US citizens.
Insurers will be blamed by Socialist / Communist Democrats… who have repeatedly blamed others for the failure of the bill they developed behind closed, locked doors which had new locks installed at that time per Harry Reid’s order.
Also passing out blame to others, mostly TRUE* Republicans who didn’t cast a single vote* for the ACA disaster, is the Liberal Mainstream Media.
Finally, blame will be cast on TrumPresident by the Libitterals inhabiting this IJ comments board, indirectly at the behest of George Soros – who sponsors all manners of resistance against his plan for Global World Order.
* – one RINO, who held a seat in the HoR for ONE term, cast a vote for ACA. There were strong doubts as to his loyalty to his constituents and to the Republican Party’s fiscal / social philosophy… as evidenced by said vote for ACA. He was ousted from the HoR, along with many of the Dems who voted for ACA, shortly after ACA was enacted and implemented.
Above should read “resistance against those people and politicians opposed to his plan for Global World Order.”
Oops! Bear culpa.
Here’s a re-post, due to the efforts of Libitterals to censor my comments….
PolarBeaRepeal says:
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Responsibility for this disaster goes to Obama, Pelosi, and Reid. The supporting cast of Gruber, Ezeikel Emmanuel, and Valerie Jarrett receive second place prizes for the disaster imposed on US citizens.
Insurers will be blamed by Socialist / Communist Democrats… who have repeatedly blamed others for the failure of the bill they developed behind closed, locked doors which had new locks installed at that time per Harry Reid’s order.
Also passing out blame to others, mostly TRUE* Republicans who didn’t cast a single vote* for the ACA disaster, is the Liberal Mainstream Media.
Finally, blame will be cast on TrumPresident by the Libitterals inhabiting this IJ comments board, indirectly at the behest of George Soros – who sponsors all manners of resistance against his plan for Global World Order.
* – one RINO, who held a seat in the HoR for ONE term, cast a vote for ACA. There were strong doubts as to his loyalty to his constituents and to the Republican Party’s fiscal / social philosophy… as evidenced by said vote for ACA. He was ousted from the HoR, along with many of the Dems who voted for ACA, shortly after ACA was enacted and implemented.
More Counties without an ACA insurer in 2018 is a BAD thing for the short run, but a very GOOD thing for the long run future of HC and HI in the US, as well as for the economy of the US.
Make no mistake about the reason this market contraction is occurring; the ACA was devised to FAIL, in a Death Spiral. The Death Spiral is caused by the inclusion of High Cost pool risks in the general pool of risks, the approximately 2200 exemptions granted by The Obama Administration to firms and unions that favor Dems at the polls, and the meager penalties for not insuring. Further, Jonathan Gruber’s comments in several instances point to the psychological approach the Obama Administration took in their plan to move to a Single Payer HC system in the US.
Fortunately, we can now and in the future be thankful that The Will of The People of the US helped avoid the disaster of a Single Payer Socialist HC System.
Polar, I like the threat to remove the subsidies for the gold plated Congressional Health Plan which was carved out and kept separate from the Obamacare law. Should have been done several months ago. Perhaps we can see movement now that the legislators will be subject to the same as the citizens.
The removal of the $8B subsidy to health insurers will shift costs to consumers, thus accelerating, albeit painfully, the collapse of ACA, and increase calls for Congress to repeal it and enable the HI industry to fix the disaster caused by ACA. The shell game designed by Gruber and Emmanuel is coming to an abrupt end.
That’s a whole lot of spaghetti on the wall to see what will stick, “Bear-amucci”
Uncertainty in the marketplace couldn’t possibly result from…uncertainty in the marketplace. With incompetence in the White House and on Capitol Hill, why would any insurer enter a new market or even invest more money in markets they are already in, since they don’t know what Trump will do tomorrow? He has already said he wants it to implode and wants it done by any measure.
In the face of all that half-baked rhetoric, would it be fiscally responsible for any carrier to then go “Hmm, Iowa seems like a good place to do business.”
The incompetence in the White House ended on Jan 20, 2017.
Yum! Spaghetti!
The political reality is this:
Well informed voters understand that the democrats have expressed a willingness to work with Republicans on fixing the flaws of the PPACA. They also know that republicans have shut them out and refuse to take repeal off of the table solely because they ran on a failed promise.
Uninformed voters will blame anything adverse on whichever party has the power today. They have no interest in becoming educated on what happened in the past. Furthermore, they will say, “We gave the keys to the car to the Republicans to fix the health care/insurance market and they turned the key to start the car, but could not figure out how to put it in drive.
All you have left are die hard Republicans and Trump supporters (less than 40%).
2018 should be interesting.
Ding, ding, ding! Ron wins the internet today!!!
@Capt Platitude: Ron wins YOUR internet today. Reasonable people will withhold judgement with regard to what Dems propose to fix the DISASTER THEY ALONE IMPOSED on American citizens.
Good thing Single Payer died on the vine without a single yes vote.
Single Payer has NEVER been presented in any meaningful legislation.
I predict that, if Democrats regain control of Congress in 2018, you will see a law crafted in 2019 to finally have a serious debate upon the merits of Single Payer instead of all the rhetoric.
If I am wrong, I will be happy to admit as such.
How’s Single Payer working at the VA? In Cana-duh (where I know a few people who work in the medical field) and in the UK, where Charlie Gard recently passed away under a SP system?
Dems regaining Congress is as laughable as SP being viable and successful. In the Senate, 23 Dem seats are up for re-election versus 8 Republican seats. Hold 23 and flip 3 of 8? Laughing my Ossoff!
Polar, I’m not advocating a Single Payer system but I do want to keep our facts straight. I’ve spent way too much time around Canadians and when I ask about their healthcare the answer from all is about the same: “not perfect but better than yours”. So I’m not so sure it’s all that bad. Maybe doctors make less in CAN. So what? Maybe CAB makes 85 year olds wait for a knee replacement. So what?
Polar, the English put their elderly on the pathway to death. What a great system!
@ SWFLAgent; How much do you ask Canadians you know about their healthcare? I spoke to friends and their relatives who work(ed) in hospitals for many years… back to the 80’s. Which set of Canadian witnesses have more credibility on the subject?
UW – So, are you saying that the healthcare “system” is the number one driver of life expectancy in a civilized country?
Please think before you post ridiculous statements.
Bob, that link wasn’t to a receipt for mental health services, so scram. It also, as always, didn’t support your claims. it’s about a type of price negotiation, aka appraisal process, and compares with other similar health care systems. You don’t read links or studies, much less understand them.
Don’t leave a 10000 word rant, full of lies and links to right-wing BS, I won’t read it without proof of mental health assistance. Your rants, meltdowns, lies, insults, and constant personal threats, combined with immediate switches in personality are disturbing. I won’t engage it, get help.
Also, Lord Geniua Bob, look at the data for the study they cite or look up papers citing it. It’s not credible. In the appendix 4/11 malignancies they looked at were not statistically significant at 0.05 confidence level, 3 actually showed more deaths in the US, and 2 avoided breast & prostate cancer which have significant lead time and over diagnosis. There is a whole list of critiques there showing that, as with most right wind “studies” it simply doesn’t hold up to basic inquiry.
Have Yogi pretend to explain it to you with his fake statistics degree and then you can both pretend to debate it and agree that Libiterals are reverse racists for not believing Obama was born in Kenya.
In the HoR, the margin is so hyuuuge, the thought of a flip to a Dem rule is as laughable as anything you’ve ever posted here on IJ.
PS Regardless of control of Congress, I’D LOVE TO SEE A DEBATE on SP HC. Pure comedy by Dems, with hyuuuuge potential for yucks and guffaws!
“Anthem Inc., Cigna Corp., Health Care Service Corp. and Molina Healthcare, four of the biggest health insurers selling Obamacare plans, said they are weighing whether to pull out of more markets for 2018 rather than face financial losses.”
In other words…if tax payers are not willing to bend over and pay us for the underwriting loss the government forced on us, we (the company) will go out of business. It’s called math liberals. Learn some!
Democrats who INTENTIONALLY broke Health Care and Health Insurance in 2010 are willing to work with Republicans to fix it in 2017? Really?!!! So, why did 50 recently vote ‘NO’?
Oops! 48 Dems including 2 I’s, and McCain, Murkowski, Collins, and 2 other RINOs. Bear culpa.
Polar, McCain, Murkowski and Collins might as well be Democrats. They certainly have no interest in doing the right thing for the country.
The idiots have lost their minds.
Correct. Idiots lost their minds, and US citizens are paying dearly for it, over the last 7 years.
“Paying” with less expensive healthcare, more coverage market recoveries, increased employment, and more rights to more people. Sorry your rich person, white supremacy took a step back, but you guys are working hard to get it back on track.
UW – What world do you live in? Seriously. Are you in a bubble with five other people?
There is NO ONE on this board that does not want affordable healthcare for every American. Yes, Americans. Illegal aliens do not belong here and DO NOT have any US Constitutional Rights in this country, especially healthcare. Obviously, if there is an emergency, we will provide care to them, but then we should ship them back and send the bill to their country.
That would save BILLIONS of dollars. So much so, that it would actually make healthcare coverage more affordable for the LEGAL Americans and immigrants.
If you and other Libbies want to pay for the illegal aliens healthcare, you have the right to do so out of your own pocket. Feel free to adopt one. But, stop trying to reach into my pocket. I prefer to spend my money and donate to support the ministries that are important to me.
Integrity my man, well said.
We need you in here more often.
Thanks, Bob. I try to be here as often as possible, but I have been extremely busy.
Not one thing I said is debatable. It’s all been backed over and over by facts but nice job shifting to illegal immigrants, a completely different topic,clown.
Okay, UW. Put up or shut up!
Let’s see the links to details of each of those items you say are not debatable. And it better be for the WHOLE (make it the majority, if not the whole) country, not just one state or county where there is some remote success.
With regards to the immigration statements, it was on the topic of healthcare. Do you know how many BILLIONS of dollars are spent on healthcare for illegal immigrants? You continue to be in a fantasy bubble if you do not think the illegal immigration problem has an impact on the cost of healthcare in this country.
UW said on 8/4 at 2:22 pm that healthcare under ACA is less expensive, and employment rose. Laughable, at best.
Of course, ‘less expensive’ could be interpreted by liberals as less expensive for those who now get it FREE, whereas they had to pay a premium if they wanted it in the past. Sigh.
UW
Pardon me, I was too general. Illegal aliens have very limited rights under the US Constitution’ 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments. They are limited to those rights pertaining to due process, search and seizure and the right to sue or be sued. They do not have the same rights as a US Citizen, otherwise.
So much for you following IJ’s request to stop the insults and their removing posts that do.
I am still waiting for you to provide the links proving Obamacare is working. I admitted that I was wrong. Are you man or woman enough to do the same?
“Well informed voters understand that the democrats have expressed a willingness to work with Republicans on fixing the flaws of the PPACA. They also know that republicans have shut them out and refuse to take repeal off of the table solely because they ran on a failed promise.”
Well informed voters will understand the whole bill needs to go. It’s 2,700 pages of over regulation, and the democrats failed to predict anything that the bill did. You keep bills simple to succeed. Being willing to modify the ACA, was solely political. The republicans did not shut out the democrats from a new bill, which is what needs to happens, democrats took their bill, and were prepared to die on it, and shut out all other debate.
“Uninformed voters will blame anything adverse on whichever party has the power today.”
DING DING DING DING DING. This is what you do, rather than assessing what occurred.
“They have no interest in becoming educated on what happened in the past.”
DING DING DING DING DING. What I’ve been telling you, for example, with regards to spending that occurred during Reagan’s tenure.
“Furthermore, they will say, “We gave the keys to the car to the Republicans to fix the health care/insurance market and they turned the key to start the car, but could not figure out how to put it in drive.”
An ignorant metaphor that is not only predicting how others will think, in order to assume they will defend the party on your named specifics, rather than listening to what they say. Shocking. I know. Listening? Holy cow. The democrats did not work with republicans on this one.
Actually, Ron, truly informed voters will:
1) Realize that the Democrats plan (if it still remotely looks like Obamacare) are still lying to them,
2) DEMAND that Obamacare be repealed. Period. Then DEMAND a bill that is truly in the best interest of the majority of Americans.
3) Vote out Democrats AND Republicans that want to continue down the same path with a Obamacare-lite type plan.
@Planet: mic drop!
Any company in business must have a reasonable expectation of being able to charge a price for a good or service that allows them to make a profit. If you cannot make even a penny in profits year after year, you eventually have to shut your doors. Obamacare never allowed for that. It was doomed from day one. Freebies for all, free immunizations, free Birth control, free child office visits, free annual physicals and on and on. Don’t get me wrong, I like free stuff as much as the next guy. But nothing in life is free. Every one of these things should at least have some sort of copay. Help to offset the cost. We make it harder and harder for the physician and insurance company to do business, more and more paperwork and regulation. Any new plan needs several things: cafeteria style options, not everyone needs maternity, or children coverage, some are simply out of that market or never in it. Some want just catastrophic and don’t care to get a free flu shot, let that be sold. Lower drug costs, force other countries to pay us for drug development and testing done in the U.S., recoup some of that money instead we develop at the cost of billions and then let other countries demand we sell the drugs to them at set prices while US consumers and carriers pay for inflated costs to cover the development. It should not take 15+ years to get something to market. Overregulation needs to stop, less bureaucracy. If you want to say no to health insurance, let them say no. Toss the in network hospitals and out of network doctors. Not allowed. No one should have to be asking each provider they see at an in network hospital if they are in network, too. Single payer would be a disaster. Can you imagine the VA style of medical care for 300 million? We need simplicity, and transparency. If the Dems are sincere about working together, that’s great, however, past experience was their way or nothing else. And as for the republicans, get your act together. If you voted repeal all these years, was that all just show? What’s your issue now? No one is going to win come January 1 2018, when it all comes crashing down. Keeping it as it is is not an answer democrats, it’s held together with duct tape and baling wire and that is fast unraveling. Time for everyone to put on their big person panties and deal with the situation and fix it.
Correct. ACA was INTENTIONALLY designed to fail, to lead to cries for Single Payer HC.
Careful Txlady, you risk being down voted by the Progressive trolls on this site. Great post.
@Agent; Txlady isn’t on the list of screen names Libitterals monitor here on IJ, so she won’t get down votes in multiples until she builds her reputation as a conservative.
No. Planet has literally said this before. I’m sure he’s going to walk back on it though, be disingenuous, and now claim that we need to work to fix it and republicans have no reason to fix a bill designed to fail.
He’s bi polar.
Great post TxLady!
The ADA never had a chance to be successful. It was shoved down American’s throats by a democratic congress that had very little idea what was actually in it. Those members of congress were just dying to be able to vote for socialized medicine in any form so that they could say that they did.
ADA was both a poster child and a magnet for adverse selection. The young and healthy will not buy it and the sick & terminally ill want it…..for free, of course. So people who neglected to care for themselves in the least whilst young, suddenly needed medical care to fix what they spent their lives breaking. And who in their right mind would think that an insurance company could take on the sick, the sickly and the unwashed of the world and manage to make ends meet ? No one who understood how it works, that’s who. Even with state and federal subsidies, this was going to be a disaster & a failure and it hasn’t disappointed as it is decidedly both !
Socialized medicine is and has been a bust everywhere it has been tried. It ain’t gonna work here either.
France? Nehtherlands?
Confused –
The problem with your and everyone else trying to use France and Netherlands as a comparison, is that you fail to consider the size (population) of those countries compared to the US as well as the poverty level affecting the people needing assistance.
France has about 65MM people, of which, only 3.7% (2.4MM people) are below the poverty level.
The Netherlands has about 17MM people and 3.3% (561,000 people) below the poverty level.
The US has a population of about 326MM people and 15% (48.9MM) are below the poverty level.
France is smaller than CA and TX combined and the Netherlands is smaller than NY. The Netherlands has less people below the poverty level than the entire population of Charlotte, NC.
You cannot fairly or quantitatively compare those countries to ours and expect that “if it works for them, it should work for us”.
Additionally, there is a stronger “work ethic” within the populous of the Netherlands than the US. Generations of democratic entitlements have “conditioned” poorer US citizens to “expect” the government to provide free stuff.
Try to provide a better example if you can.
“Confused –
The problem with your and everyone else trying to use France and Netherlands as a comparison, is that you fail to consider the size (population) of those countries compared to the US as well”
Excellent points. The US is larger, and can better utilize economies of scale, saving even MORE. Good point for once, Integrity.
Confused
Here is another way to look at it. What if the Federal government completely stayed out of healthcare and left it up to the states to create their own laws regarding healthcare (you know, the way the Constitution was originally set up to work)?
How fast do you think the democratic controlled blues states (CA/NY) would last before they went bankrupt if they had their own single payer system for their residents?
In 1798 Congress, full of Founders, passed, and Adams, a Founder, signed a law creating a government operated hospital service and requiring privately employed sailors to purchase health care. Also, if you had ever read anything about the founding of the country, or the debates and creation of the Constitution, you would never argue that they would not want updates to laws and the role of government. You don’t know what you are talking about.
This doesn’t agree with conservative ideology and BS, please delete it IJ, and make sure to leave lies, smears. and threats to liberals.
Jax Agent – Great post!
What you stated was simply a common sense view to the entire idea of a law that was destined for failure. Everything about it was a lie from the beginning, especially how Obama was “advertising” it.
Common sense says you cannot add millions of sick people to an already stressed system, FOR FREE, and expect premiums to go down. The higher deductible plans were forced onto people because that was the only way to keep premiums within reach for some people.
Notice how all the idiotic conservatives ranting here for years are agents, not underwriters, actuaries, analysts, or economists, who actually analyze risk. If I wanted sales of small accounts in tiny crap markets I’d look to people like this. If I wanted actual analysis I would look to the people I’ve mentioned above, who actually make profit by smartly looking at and understanding risk, not just signing up customers.
“Notice how all the idiotic conservatives ranting here for years are agents, not underwriters, actuaries, analysts, or economists, who actually analyze risk. If I wanted sales of small accounts in tiny crap markets I’d look to people like this. If I wanted actual analysis I would look to the people I’ve mentioned above, who actually make profit by smartly looking at and understanding risk, not just signing up customers”
Ah hahahaha, oh my.
This explains a lot with you. I don’t think you can even possibly understand how much so.
You’re not a business person at all. You’re a drone somewhere based on the above, I wonder where? I’m not quite sure you are what you just said, or a producer in a targeted niche somewhere who is used to his big firm doing well based on near panzi schemes (basically over selling what they do and convincing the client they are special on a simple product and then over charging), but if you’re the latter, I eat little agents like you for lunch all the time with those suit I’m better than everyone else attitudes. I hope you’re not in my field! ;-)
I target clients with ignorant agents like that.
UW – My discipline has been in underwriting for 30+ years. I’ve successfully underwritten all classes and sizes of businesses and have designed financial loss sensitive programs for Fortune 1000 companies. (That means that I have worked closely with actuaries and have used trending and loss development factors to determine loss picks.)
You, however, have demonstrated time and again how clueless you are in how insurance really works. If you were an underwriter, you would know that a single payer system cannot work because there is no true spread of risk. All the losses and premium are in one big pot. As the losses grow in that pot, the premium must grow with it to keep it sustainable. There is no risk taking in that model if the single payer simply gets to raise the premium anytime the losses exceed the premium.
The private market, however, takes risk by trying to choose “better clients”. They may choose correctly, or not. The better their data and decision making (aka – underwriting), the more likely they can make a profit. Competition drives prices down, because each carrier “thinks” they can underwrite better than the next carrier and offers a better price and/or terms.
Just curious…what type of coverage do you underwrite?
Again you demonstrate your better attitude than me. Good post.
I am not an agent. But, if you want crap accounts in your portfolio, a Polar Bear has the ability to find good accounts and accounts that smell like fish… um, I meant stale fish.
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