“Sessions, who has assailed marijuana as comparable to heroin…”
This is exactly why Jeff Beauregard is the exact wrong person to be heading up marijuana enforcement. The fact this is his belief completely disqualifies him and highlights his ignorance on the matter at hand.
Please do not attack other members. You are not adding to the conference call or fomenting any sort of positive discussion. We have been tasked to self-regulate this board and I intend to stay on-topic and refrain from attacking members or their points of view, even if they are ill-informed.
This is exactly right. Marijuana is proven to be far less harmful than alcohol both in a societal way, and to one’s personal health, but the DoJ isn’t stepping up crackdowns on underage drinking and those who provide adolescents with booze.
It is also proven that marijuana is not a gateway drug, nor is it a drug for losers and “worthless people” as another poster put it. Instead, some of the most successful people in modern times have been avid smokers at one point or throughout their lives.
I have never tried it, nor will I ever try it due to religious beliefs and an opposition to the smell and idea of not being 100% in control of my faculties while using it, but I will never judge those who do. This isn’t heroin, meth, crack, etc.
Agent,
Perhaps you can try better next time not to insult our fellow poster, Doug. Also, I read his comments and I don’t see anywhere in there he suggesting smoking weed and driving is a good idea. He is simply saying it is safer than alcohol, which is a fact. And, no, there isn’t any link proven between marijuana leading to more serious drugs. I am sorry about the loss of the elderly on that bus. The young man obviously made a mistake if he became intoxicated on anything prior to getting behind the wheel. No one is advocating for that.
Marijuana isn’t proven to be far less harmful than alcohol. Any such claim that is sustainable is based on specific definitions of ‘harmful’ and ‘far’.
Marijuana and other drugs are used by people who need to escape reality. Why would they have to do so?
Some of the most successful people in history did not do drugs. What have you proven by your claim, other than ‘exceptions exist’ or ‘cherry-picking stats enables any conclusion sought’?
Here is one article which talks about a study. Please study this and provide your own insight into how marijuana is more harmful than alcohol.
“Alcohol is a drug used by people who need to escape reality. Why would they have to do so?” works both ways.
“Some of the most successful people in history did not do drugs. What have you proven by your claim, other than ‘exceptions exist’ or ‘cherry-picking stats enables any conclusion sought’?”
I am deliberately cherry picking to dispute the idea that, solely because a person uses marijuana, does not mean they are some degenerate, lazy, loser. Some of the most successful people in the entire world either were regular pot users, or at least used it or some time in their lives. Even many of the most revered Conservative thinkers of our time are or were pot users.
Millions of people with full-time, professional employment who support families and communities are pot users. I imagine some are heavy pot users. Many creatives, inventors, authors, musicians, politicians, and revered business leaders smoke pot. It means NOTHING to what type of person they are or can become. Vilifying its use is pointless.
Certainly marijuana usage is worse for your lungs while alcohol is worse for your liver. And I would guess that there has been considerably more data gathered and studies done on the effects of alcohol use on the body than there has been on that of marijuana. Which is to say that, based on limited data, the jury might still be out.
Having said that, I can’t imagine that marijuana use would be any worse for an individual or for society as a whole that has been the case for alcohol. And, having said that, I think that a blanket endorsement of recreational use of marijuana as being ‘better’ or ‘worse’ than alcohol would have to be premature.
The first things that the states and the federal government need to do is to agree on usage and permissibility of medical marijuana. Heck, the medical benefits of both low THC and high test maryjane seem to be indisputable, yet possession laws; usage laws; workplace laws; etc are all over the map. I would love to see congress and the states get their collective acts together on this right away.
August 11, 2017 at 10:38 am
Captain Planet says:
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Jax,
You make some good points. As far as the lungs are concerned, mary doesn’t have to be smoked. It can be edible or vaporized. Vaporization is actually the preferred ways by many in attempts to making green “go green”. There are countless studies of its effects on the brain and body compared to alcohol. If you take the time to research them, you’ll see what many are intimating. It’s definitely safer than drinking (drinking to excess, that is).
August 12, 2017 at 7:51 pm
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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Straw Man Argument about pot users being degenerates, low-life, losers. No one believes that as a blanket statement.
August 9, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Agent says:
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Polar, I certainly have not run into anyone highly successful who were regular pot smokers. Successful people are not into trying to escape reality. Progressives seem to have a lot of trouble with the new “reality” of the world.
Well “escaping reality” is subjective. One could argue that watching TV, going on vacation, or even cheating with certain foods while on a diet could be considered escaping reality.
In response to the whole “Successful people don’t smoke pot”: Look at pro sports (littered with pot smokers), Hollywood, political figures. Whether you like them or not, those who are in that arena of life are successful.
This is one debate that I am in the minority with my conservative friends. Most want to keep it illegal. I believe states should get to decide whether or not to legalize it. I just can’t believe more conservatives aren’t for legalization. It’s a good opportunity to limit government’s touch on society. Today’s conservative mindset – more, not less, government. I guess I am old school and don’t want government telling me what I can or cannot put in my body (I wouldn’t use this stuff anyway, but the freedom to choose should be there).
August 11, 2017 at 11:59 am
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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No one has answered my question as to why pot users try to escape reality.
Probably so they could invent things and win Nobel Prizes, and become Presidents and Governors, and authors, musicians, painters, business-owners, titans of industry, etc,etc,etc.
Once you find out the exact answer to your question, go ask why drinkers drink, people read novels, watch TV and movies, and live vicariously through their favorite sports team or athlete.
If you think “escaping reality” is why pot smokers smoke pot (note: smoking in this sense actually means eating, just so that there is no confusion) then you are missing the point of why anybody does anything that isn’t directly related to survival. Do you go home from your job making non-sequitur posts on internet messageboards and just sit in a chair all evening, deliberately trying not to think or experience something intangible until you eventually pass out for the night? Wouldn’t want to escape reality and end up a huge pot smoker (smoker in this case, actually means vaper, just so there is no confusion)
August 12, 2017 at 7:53 pm
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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Nope. Like most of your replies, you avoided the tough question posed.
August 14, 2017 at 8:22 am
Captain Planet says:
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Yogi,
I think you’d find that many who use it do so in order to find reality, not escape it.
August 8, 2017 at 6:38 pm
Doug Fisher says:
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Totally uncalled for post without any regard to Scientific findings or research studies. Attacking me when you should be attacking my data with hard facts would be a much better course of action to take. As is, your comments come off aggressive and abusive to a very complex situation.
As I asserted before, there is no link between marijuana use and it causing the user to use harder more destructive drugs. There is no link between using marijuana and being a quote-unquote loser. There is no link between marijuana use and an increase in accidents, familial problems, and other issues inherent with alcohol use and other legal and advertised drugs on the market already.
The most destructive drug the country has ever seen is on thousands of billboards on thousands of ads and in thousands of newspapers all across the country: alcohol. The way that underage alcohol consumption leads to brain damage, fatal accidents, abuse, and other societal ills is frightening, but you don’t see the Department of Justice going after underage drinking or those who supply the alcohol to these minors.
I am 100% for the continued legal availability of alcohol. When used responsibly by responsible adults, there is little worry about there being any problems to go along with its consumption. In exactly the same way, I am for the legalization of Marijuana to be used responsibly by responsible adults.
Please refute the point with research studies if you have a problem with the content. I derived my points of view from research studies, not my own emotions about the subject.
Nobody has ever insinuated that being high on marijuana and driving, operating machinery, or doing any other potentially dangerous activity which requires a high amount concentration would ever be okay.
Drivers who drive high should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Full stop.
That man in Texas that killed 13 people by driving high is absolutely horrific.
As are the over 10,000 people who kill themselves and others driving drunk every year.
So, I say again: should we ban alcohol because it can cause some users to fly into abusive fits of rage? Because it can cause the user to black out, leading to increased amounts of rape and other heinous crimes? Because of the addictiveness of the drug and how it has destroyed hundreds of thousands of families? Because it causes damage to the liver, stomach, esophagus and other parts of the body?
The reasoning is pretty simple. Alcohol kills. Alcohol ruins lives. Alcohol impairs judgment. Alcohol is used by people to escape reality.
Should we ban alcohol? Should we crack down on it and tear families apart for it? Should we spend billions of dollars to enforce an unenforceable and ineffective law that has done absolutely nothing to stem consumption but has instead filled prisons to the brim full of otherwise non-violent, not-dangerous offenders?
It is so disappointing to see my posts deleted which articulate a position with finesse because they are in response to another poster using verbal attacks and trying to stray the conversation off-topic. There was a lot of good on-topic stuff in that post! :P
But I really do appreciate the careful moderation. In all seriousness, you guys are doing a fantastic job at helping us keep these topics moving forward and on-task, as well as fomenting positive discussion. I can feel a HUGE change from just a few days ago already. I know I have made an intense effort not to criticize or lash out, and it looks like many other posters have, as well.
Doug,
With all due respect, I think the reason they were deleted was due to the fact insults were laid, as I pointed out. Here is a hard truth fact no one can deny. As far as “harmful” is concerned. No one has ever died directly as a result of consuming too much weed. But, the same cannot be said of alcohol. Quite the opposite. So, pretty difficult to prove otherwise. Impossible to OD on marijuana. That is a fact.
Which is why I don’t comprehend Session’s notion that bud is like heroin. Simply nothing alike. Other than the fact both CAN be smoked. Though, that is not how either CAN be ingested into the bloodstream. Darren Aronofsky didn’t make “Requiem for A Dream” about Mary Jane, did he? His point was about heroin, which has both way more addictive qualities as well as life altering. They are not even in the same sport, let alone ball park.
Let’s continue to respect the monitors’ decisions to remove comments which are tied to insults, no matter why. I agree, we need to get away from the insults. And, I have also laid some. So, I am not from fault. I will return to the comments I had when I was respecting our former President while others out here were completely disrespecting him. I have done the same to the current. But, that’s because I have daughters, first and foremost.
August 9, 2017 at 11:09 am
Fellow Pot Smoker says:
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I absolutely agree Heroin and weed are not in the same ballpark. Most heroin users are originally opioid addicts. They move to heroin because it’s cheaper and increases the physical addictive effect. Pot does not cause a physical dependency after use. Even alcohol could be sited as a physical dependency because once you wake up wasted, a glass of beer helps with re-stabilizing your system. There is no physical degeneration or physically addictive impact with pot.
I’ll be honest. As a par-taker of the substance, I have been successfully, consistently employed for over 20 years with raises. I’ve gone long periods of time without par-taking with no physical dependencies. I don’t smoke cigarettes. I don’t drink more than two alcoholic beverages in a day. I’m physically fit. I can enjoy myself, relax, but also maintain a responsible lifestyle. (By the way, my habit is way less expensive than your drinking habit.)
August 12, 2017 at 7:57 pm
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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Yes, respect the monitor’s decision to remove insults. Far too long ongoing until you finally realized why censoring occurred. It indicates something about politics of the left who try to downvote conservatives through BOTs, etc., but are irked when THEY are censored.
Contemplation of the above is LONG overdue.
August 9, 2017 at 12:10 am
Doug Fisher says:
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Agreed on all points. It is refreshing to not have to gird up for battle on every trip to the comment section and instead be able to actually, you know –comment– on the article at hand. :)
My fervor against the president is much the same as yours. Not to take it off-topic, but that is definitely where much of my disgust lies. I want my daughters raised in a world that respects their rights and also shames those that would make lewd comments or suggestions about them. Full Stop. There has literally never been “Locker Room talk” like that out of my mouth and I would expect a president to at least be a decent, moral, compassionate human being.
Alcohol is NOT the topic of the article. Stay on topic, and do not use the false crutch of alcohol to defend pot use. Ready, steady, …. GO!
Bonus points: refute the ‘right wing biased source’, Reuters’ story on increased (tripled or more) risk of death via hypertension causes induced by long term pot smoking. Ready, steady, … GO!
(In best Horschak voice) OOH OOH OOH. I KNOW, I KNOW!!
“…limitations in the way marijuana use was assessed — including that researchers could not be sure whether people had used the drug continuously since they first tried it.”
You know what would be a good study correlating marijuana use and increase in hypertension?
ASK THE PARTICIPANTS IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY USING MARIJUANA DURING THE STUDY INSTEAD OF ASKING IF THEY EVER TRIED IT.
Do you read the things you link before claiming they support your argument, or do you just look at the title and post the URL?
August 11, 2017 at 12:00 pm
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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No one has died by consuming too much weed?! No fatalities associated with pot?! Really?!
Night and day difference around here. Discussions have actually had productive reasoning and interested commentary from both sides. Not people dropping live grenades and bailing.
People who ‘bail’ have better things to do with their time.
C’ya!
August 8, 2017 at 11:47 pm
Fair Playing Field says:
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PolarBeaRepeal wrote:
“Marijuana and other drugs are used by people who need to escape reality. Why would they have to do so?”
Just so we’re clear, you’re referring to alcohol as well given that it’s an “other drug”, right?
If that’s your position and you advocate total abstinence, I understand. Personally, I would prefer that our country’s laws treat alcohol and marijuana similarly.
There is NO justification that a nation treat dissimilar drugs similarly. None. So, if you disagree, say why they should be treated equally. I contend the two drugs must be equally helpful and equally harmful if abused or used incorrectly. What say you to defend equal treatment of alcohol and pot?
Bonus points: refute this recent study regarding tripled risk of death via hypertension causes, due to pot use… which INCREASES over time…
I don’t want to see law enforcement money being spent on treating marijuana possession as a criminal offense. I want military veterans who use marijuana for PTSD and others who use it for health reasons to be able to do so without any stigma.
Plain and simple. Legalize it. Let those who want to use it, use it. And though it doesn’t benefit me personally to do so, I support it because I like the idea of less laws and regulations impacting how people live their lives.
Dive stoned? Get popped. Just like driving drunk. Don’t do it.
MORE money should be spent on enforcement of pot laws. More benefits to society; e.g. less crime, lower cost of health insurance, more productive citizens.
Get rid of the pot laws and take the money previously spent enforcing them and use it to fight real crime. Or are you lust looking for yet another way to increase both government and my taxes?
August 9, 2017 at 3:27 pm
Confused says:
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As stated above, “researchers could not be sure whether people had used the drug continuously since they first tried it.”
You know what would be a good study correlating marijuana use and increase in hypertension?
Finding out if the participants had been using the drug during the study period instead of asking if they had EVER TRIED it.
Do you read the things you link before claiming they support your argument, or do you just look at the title and post the URL?
Funny enough, integrity matters in the Google topic called Reuters left leaning. So, which is it?
In reality, they are centrist and actually legitimate news organization in every sense of the word. One ideology does not have a monopoly on the truth.
The fact is, that study was poorly conducted. Their controls were poor to say the least.
And once again, we, the conservative, freedom-loving bunch of people on this board say: So what? Even if pot led to early death, pancreatitis, cirrhosis, stomach cancer, throat cancer, depression (wait, I am talking about alcohol again, a perfectly legal drug)…then that would still be the choice for someone to use by themselves. How dare the government try to stop someone from doing something that A)doesn’t hurt anyone in and of the act itself. and B)causes prison overcrowding and soaring incarceration rates and cost nationwide.
Stop the private prison lobbies. Stop breaking up families. Stop vilifying something that tens of millions of people nationwide do or have done safely for generations.
Polar, saw that study just today done by the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology. Hypertension problems leading to 3 times the risk of non pot users and grows with each year they smoke it. Oops, this tends to negate the positives of the drug, doesn’t it. Dopeheads, keep on smoking please and you will be pushing up daisies in a few years or have congenitive heart failure and no chance of a normal life. Strokes are common too.
Agent, did you know that study had “…limitations in the way marijuana use was assessed — including that researchers could not be sure whether people had used the drug continuously since they first tried it.”?
The CONTINUITY of use of pot doesn’t invalidate the study.
U R grasping at straws, now.
August 11, 2017 at 11:29 am
Confused says:
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Of course it does! If the study can’t definitively say “these are regular users” and only admits “these people tried it at least once” their results are inconclusive.
August 11, 2017 at 12:03 pm
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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In YOUR mind it does.
Extrapolating to the absurd… does your requirement mean smoking 24/7/365, each year, for ‘continuity’? If not, what time gaps are permitted? Reply please to the SPECIFIC questions above… Ready, steady, … GO!
August 11, 2017 at 12:31 pm
Confused says:
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The results were “smoking marijuana increases the risk of hypertention 3 times.” The study admits it can’t tell us how often these people smoked marijuana.
No correlation between smoking weed and increased hypertention can be concluded if we do not know how often these folks smoked.
As far as the study tells us:
(1) If I smoke one joint my entire life, I am 3 times more likely than non smokers to have hypertention, AND
(2) If I smoke one joint an hour my entire life, I am still 3 times more likely than non smokers to have hypertention!
Continuity should have been defined in the study.
August 11, 2017 at 10:40 am
Captain Planet says:
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Doesn’t need to be smoked, Agent. Please, please, please, educate yourself before making blanket commentary on a topic. Thanks in advance.
‘smoked’ is a blanket verb for various types of consumption.
August 11, 2017 at 12:32 pm
Confused says:
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I can’t wait to smoke my turkey sandwich and apple at lunch!
August 11, 2017 at 4:13 pm
Fair Playing Field says:
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I have smoked chicken in my salad today. I don’t think “smoked” means it’s been previously consumed.
August 11, 2017 at 4:30 pm
Doug Fisher says:
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I can’t wait to smoke a good smoked pulled pork sandwich while smoking a Dr. Pepper. My favorite things to smoke and smoke…while smoking.
August 11, 2017 at 4:34 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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These last 3 comments entertained me greatly. Thanks for the laugh before the weekend.
August 14, 2017 at 10:51 am
Ron says:
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Agent,
Based on this logic, we should also make cigarettes, sugar, fat, alcohol, processed foods, soda, competitive sports, knives, guns, bows and arrows, fire, power tools, ladders, hammers, nails, saws of all kinds, mining activities, law enforcement, firefighters, living in any natural disaster-prone areas, transportation, and any other potentially dangerous item or activity illegal.
Let’s leave to to the grand government to keep is safe from any harm.
I prefer to use education so we the people can make our own decisions based on what we learn about the risks.
No, Ron. Everything else is okay, but weed for some unknown reason is BAD and should therefore be BANNED!
Yay big government!
Yay increased control over lives!
Yay conservatives not being completely and nakedly hypocritical about this!
August 14, 2017 at 3:06 pm
Ron says:
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Doug,
Positions like these taken by Republicans are why I left the party and became an Independent. Whether it is advocating for more government, taking rights away from states, and being fiscally irresponsible, they are constantly going against their core values and winning elections by pointing out the flaws of the Democratic Party, not there own accomplishments.
The Independent Party may not espouse all of the values of Conservatives, but at least they are honest and far less hypocritical.
August 10, 2017 at 12:07 pm
libra says:
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No one who believes in liberty and small government should be in favor of anti-drug laws. The only time drug use should be a matter of law is if the user breaks some other law or puts anyone else or property of others in danger, et al. Drug addiction is a separate issue. (addiction just as often comes from legal opiate drug prescriptions as from experimentation on the street….save this discussion for another day.)
Our country tried this with alcohol prohibition. That failed. The most wealthy and mighty had private bars and stores of booze, and only the those of lower stature got nabbed. Same now with illegal drugs…disproportionate criminalizing of minorities and poor.
Any State that forbids medical marijuana is deplorable, but they are taking the word of “medical professionals” who look at their E&O and are afraid to back anything not FDA approved.
But consider this: how can big pharmaceutical industry start to make profit off marijuana research and development if the substance cannot be legally purchased or transported across State lines? The Federal laws seem to be standing in the way of legit industry doing the research, and so they have no choice but to try to discredit the small growers who make medical claims. I think if you follow the money, you will know why pot plants are legal or not.
Thank you for your comment. Incredibly well said and reasoned.
The history of hemp and marijuana prohibition is a mess and truly embarrassing.
I am glad to see public opinion turning towards legalization so hard that the next democratic president in office will probably legalize it outright, or at least decriminalize possession for personal use entirely.
I thought of more terrible things that progressive thinkers have done over the years:
Child labor laws
Girls being allowed to go to school
Suffrage for women and blacks
Freeing the slaves
National Parks
Overtime pay
Good thing conservatives were there to stop any more of their nefarious plans from taking hold.
Marijuana legalization is inevitable. The smartest states will follow Colorado and Washington’s lead and legalize it and tax the crap out of it to add to the local economies.
Think of all the poor southern states and how they could benefit their schools, roads, and infrastructure with the massive tax proceeds that legal weed could bring.
Yes, those states also have the highest incidences of obesity by far, so you will need a program to counteract further weight-gain as a result of the munchies, but I am sure someone could cook up a good idea for that.
For most users, the side effects of marijuana are far less severe and has almost zero drug interactions.
The only high horse would be someone looking down on another person for doing something perfectly normal and safe. As safe as a can of beer, safer than a cigarette.
“Sessions, who has assailed marijuana as comparable to heroin…”
This is exactly why Jeff Beauregard is the exact wrong person to be heading up marijuana enforcement. The fact this is his belief completely disqualifies him and highlights his ignorance on the matter at hand.
Please do not attack other members. You are not adding to the conference call or fomenting any sort of positive discussion. We have been tasked to self-regulate this board and I intend to stay on-topic and refrain from attacking members or their points of view, even if they are ill-informed.
This is exactly right. Marijuana is proven to be far less harmful than alcohol both in a societal way, and to one’s personal health, but the DoJ isn’t stepping up crackdowns on underage drinking and those who provide adolescents with booze.
It is also proven that marijuana is not a gateway drug, nor is it a drug for losers and “worthless people” as another poster put it. Instead, some of the most successful people in modern times have been avid smokers at one point or throughout their lives.
I have never tried it, nor will I ever try it due to religious beliefs and an opposition to the smell and idea of not being 100% in control of my faculties while using it, but I will never judge those who do. This isn’t heroin, meth, crack, etc.
Agent,
Perhaps you can try better next time not to insult our fellow poster, Doug. Also, I read his comments and I don’t see anywhere in there he suggesting smoking weed and driving is a good idea. He is simply saying it is safer than alcohol, which is a fact. And, no, there isn’t any link proven between marijuana leading to more serious drugs. I am sorry about the loss of the elderly on that bus. The young man obviously made a mistake if he became intoxicated on anything prior to getting behind the wheel. No one is advocating for that.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/whats-most-dangerous-drug-world-according-science/
Here is one article which talks about a study. Please study this and provide your own insight into how marijuana is more harmful than alcohol.
“Alcohol is a drug used by people who need to escape reality. Why would they have to do so?” works both ways.
“Some of the most successful people in history did not do drugs. What have you proven by your claim, other than ‘exceptions exist’ or ‘cherry-picking stats enables any conclusion sought’?”
I am deliberately cherry picking to dispute the idea that, solely because a person uses marijuana, does not mean they are some degenerate, lazy, loser. Some of the most successful people in the entire world either were regular pot users, or at least used it or some time in their lives. Even many of the most revered Conservative thinkers of our time are or were pot users.
Millions of people with full-time, professional employment who support families and communities are pot users. I imagine some are heavy pot users. Many creatives, inventors, authors, musicians, politicians, and revered business leaders smoke pot. It means NOTHING to what type of person they are or can become. Vilifying its use is pointless.
Certainly marijuana usage is worse for your lungs while alcohol is worse for your liver. And I would guess that there has been considerably more data gathered and studies done on the effects of alcohol use on the body than there has been on that of marijuana. Which is to say that, based on limited data, the jury might still be out.
Having said that, I can’t imagine that marijuana use would be any worse for an individual or for society as a whole that has been the case for alcohol. And, having said that, I think that a blanket endorsement of recreational use of marijuana as being ‘better’ or ‘worse’ than alcohol would have to be premature.
The first things that the states and the federal government need to do is to agree on usage and permissibility of medical marijuana. Heck, the medical benefits of both low THC and high test maryjane seem to be indisputable, yet possession laws; usage laws; workplace laws; etc are all over the map. I would love to see congress and the states get their collective acts together on this right away.
Jax,
You make some good points. As far as the lungs are concerned, mary doesn’t have to be smoked. It can be edible or vaporized. Vaporization is actually the preferred ways by many in attempts to making green “go green”. There are countless studies of its effects on the brain and body compared to alcohol. If you take the time to research them, you’ll see what many are intimating. It’s definitely safer than drinking (drinking to excess, that is).
Straw Man Argument about pot users being degenerates, low-life, losers. No one believes that as a blanket statement.
Polar, I certainly have not run into anyone highly successful who were regular pot smokers. Successful people are not into trying to escape reality. Progressives seem to have a lot of trouble with the new “reality” of the world.
Well “escaping reality” is subjective. One could argue that watching TV, going on vacation, or even cheating with certain foods while on a diet could be considered escaping reality.
In response to the whole “Successful people don’t smoke pot”: Look at pro sports (littered with pot smokers), Hollywood, political figures. Whether you like them or not, those who are in that arena of life are successful.
This is one debate that I am in the minority with my conservative friends. Most want to keep it illegal. I believe states should get to decide whether or not to legalize it. I just can’t believe more conservatives aren’t for legalization. It’s a good opportunity to limit government’s touch on society. Today’s conservative mindset – more, not less, government. I guess I am old school and don’t want government telling me what I can or cannot put in my body (I wouldn’t use this stuff anyway, but the freedom to choose should be there).
No one has answered my question as to why pot users try to escape reality.
Probably so they could invent things and win Nobel Prizes, and become Presidents and Governors, and authors, musicians, painters, business-owners, titans of industry, etc,etc,etc.
Once you find out the exact answer to your question, go ask why drinkers drink, people read novels, watch TV and movies, and live vicariously through their favorite sports team or athlete.
If you think “escaping reality” is why pot smokers smoke pot (note: smoking in this sense actually means eating, just so that there is no confusion) then you are missing the point of why anybody does anything that isn’t directly related to survival. Do you go home from your job making non-sequitur posts on internet messageboards and just sit in a chair all evening, deliberately trying not to think or experience something intangible until you eventually pass out for the night? Wouldn’t want to escape reality and end up a huge pot smoker (smoker in this case, actually means vaper, just so there is no confusion)
Nope. Like most of your replies, you avoided the tough question posed.
Yogi,
I think you’d find that many who use it do so in order to find reality, not escape it.
Totally uncalled for post without any regard to Scientific findings or research studies. Attacking me when you should be attacking my data with hard facts would be a much better course of action to take. As is, your comments come off aggressive and abusive to a very complex situation.
As I asserted before, there is no link between marijuana use and it causing the user to use harder more destructive drugs. There is no link between using marijuana and being a quote-unquote loser. There is no link between marijuana use and an increase in accidents, familial problems, and other issues inherent with alcohol use and other legal and advertised drugs on the market already.
The most destructive drug the country has ever seen is on thousands of billboards on thousands of ads and in thousands of newspapers all across the country: alcohol. The way that underage alcohol consumption leads to brain damage, fatal accidents, abuse, and other societal ills is frightening, but you don’t see the Department of Justice going after underage drinking or those who supply the alcohol to these minors.
I am 100% for the continued legal availability of alcohol. When used responsibly by responsible adults, there is little worry about there being any problems to go along with its consumption. In exactly the same way, I am for the legalization of Marijuana to be used responsibly by responsible adults.
Please refute the point with research studies if you have a problem with the content. I derived my points of view from research studies, not my own emotions about the subject.
Nobody has ever insinuated that being high on marijuana and driving, operating machinery, or doing any other potentially dangerous activity which requires a high amount concentration would ever be okay.
Drivers who drive high should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Full stop.
That man in Texas that killed 13 people by driving high is absolutely horrific.
As are the over 10,000 people who kill themselves and others driving drunk every year.
So, I say again: should we ban alcohol because it can cause some users to fly into abusive fits of rage? Because it can cause the user to black out, leading to increased amounts of rape and other heinous crimes? Because of the addictiveness of the drug and how it has destroyed hundreds of thousands of families? Because it causes damage to the liver, stomach, esophagus and other parts of the body?
The reasoning is pretty simple. Alcohol kills. Alcohol ruins lives. Alcohol impairs judgment. Alcohol is used by people to escape reality.
Should we ban alcohol? Should we crack down on it and tear families apart for it? Should we spend billions of dollars to enforce an unenforceable and ineffective law that has done absolutely nothing to stem consumption but has instead filled prisons to the brim full of otherwise non-violent, not-dangerous offenders?
These are NOT rhetorical questions.
It is so disappointing to see my posts deleted which articulate a position with finesse because they are in response to another poster using verbal attacks and trying to stray the conversation off-topic. There was a lot of good on-topic stuff in that post! :P
But I really do appreciate the careful moderation. In all seriousness, you guys are doing a fantastic job at helping us keep these topics moving forward and on-task, as well as fomenting positive discussion. I can feel a HUGE change from just a few days ago already. I know I have made an intense effort not to criticize or lash out, and it looks like many other posters have, as well.
Doug,
With all due respect, I think the reason they were deleted was due to the fact insults were laid, as I pointed out. Here is a hard truth fact no one can deny. As far as “harmful” is concerned. No one has ever died directly as a result of consuming too much weed. But, the same cannot be said of alcohol. Quite the opposite. So, pretty difficult to prove otherwise. Impossible to OD on marijuana. That is a fact.
Which is why I don’t comprehend Session’s notion that bud is like heroin. Simply nothing alike. Other than the fact both CAN be smoked. Though, that is not how either CAN be ingested into the bloodstream. Darren Aronofsky didn’t make “Requiem for A Dream” about Mary Jane, did he? His point was about heroin, which has both way more addictive qualities as well as life altering. They are not even in the same sport, let alone ball park.
Let’s continue to respect the monitors’ decisions to remove comments which are tied to insults, no matter why. I agree, we need to get away from the insults. And, I have also laid some. So, I am not from fault. I will return to the comments I had when I was respecting our former President while others out here were completely disrespecting him. I have done the same to the current. But, that’s because I have daughters, first and foremost.
I absolutely agree Heroin and weed are not in the same ballpark. Most heroin users are originally opioid addicts. They move to heroin because it’s cheaper and increases the physical addictive effect. Pot does not cause a physical dependency after use. Even alcohol could be sited as a physical dependency because once you wake up wasted, a glass of beer helps with re-stabilizing your system. There is no physical degeneration or physically addictive impact with pot.
I’ll be honest. As a par-taker of the substance, I have been successfully, consistently employed for over 20 years with raises. I’ve gone long periods of time without par-taking with no physical dependencies. I don’t smoke cigarettes. I don’t drink more than two alcoholic beverages in a day. I’m physically fit. I can enjoy myself, relax, but also maintain a responsible lifestyle. (By the way, my habit is way less expensive than your drinking habit.)
Yes, respect the monitor’s decision to remove insults. Far too long ongoing until you finally realized why censoring occurred. It indicates something about politics of the left who try to downvote conservatives through BOTs, etc., but are irked when THEY are censored.
Contemplation of the above is LONG overdue.
Agreed on all points. It is refreshing to not have to gird up for battle on every trip to the comment section and instead be able to actually, you know –comment– on the article at hand. :)
My fervor against the president is much the same as yours. Not to take it off-topic, but that is definitely where much of my disgust lies. I want my daughters raised in a world that respects their rights and also shames those that would make lewd comments or suggestions about them. Full Stop. There has literally never been “Locker Room talk” like that out of my mouth and I would expect a president to at least be a decent, moral, compassionate human being.
But I digress.
Alcohol is NOT the topic of the article. Stay on topic, and do not use the false crutch of alcohol to defend pot use. Ready, steady, …. GO!
Bonus points: refute the ‘right wing biased source’, Reuters’ story on increased (tripled or more) risk of death via hypertension causes induced by long term pot smoking. Ready, steady, … GO!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-hypertension-idUSKBN1AP0JS
(In best Horschak voice) OOH OOH OOH. I KNOW, I KNOW!!
“…limitations in the way marijuana use was assessed — including that researchers could not be sure whether people had used the drug continuously since they first tried it.”
You know what would be a good study correlating marijuana use and increase in hypertension?
ASK THE PARTICIPANTS IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY USING MARIJUANA DURING THE STUDY INSTEAD OF ASKING IF THEY EVER TRIED IT.
Do you read the things you link before claiming they support your argument, or do you just look at the title and post the URL?
No one has died by consuming too much weed?! No fatalities associated with pot?! Really?!
100% Correct sir. The user may have not dies directly but their actions may have killed others.
I told you that I would follow suit…….so far so good.
Night and day difference around here. Discussions have actually had productive reasoning and interested commentary from both sides. Not people dropping live grenades and bailing.
People who ‘bail’ have better things to do with their time.
C’ya!
PolarBeaRepeal wrote:
“Marijuana and other drugs are used by people who need to escape reality. Why would they have to do so?”
Just so we’re clear, you’re referring to alcohol as well given that it’s an “other drug”, right?
If that’s your position and you advocate total abstinence, I understand. Personally, I would prefer that our country’s laws treat alcohol and marijuana similarly.
There is NO justification that a nation treat dissimilar drugs similarly. None. So, if you disagree, say why they should be treated equally. I contend the two drugs must be equally helpful and equally harmful if abused or used incorrectly. What say you to defend equal treatment of alcohol and pot?
Bonus points: refute this recent study regarding tripled risk of death via hypertension causes, due to pot use… which INCREASES over time…
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-hypertension-idUSKBN1AP0JS
It’s not OK to refute the story using ‘Reuters is a right-wing news outlet, so the story is not credible’. Stick to facts. Ready, steady, … GO!
I don’t want to see law enforcement money being spent on treating marijuana possession as a criminal offense. I want military veterans who use marijuana for PTSD and others who use it for health reasons to be able to do so without any stigma.
Plain and simple. Legalize it. Let those who want to use it, use it. And though it doesn’t benefit me personally to do so, I support it because I like the idea of less laws and regulations impacting how people live their lives.
Dive stoned? Get popped. Just like driving drunk. Don’t do it.
MORE money should be spent on enforcement of pot laws. More benefits to society; e.g. less crime, lower cost of health insurance, more productive citizens.
Get rid of the pot laws and take the money previously spent enforcing them and use it to fight real crime. Or are you lust looking for yet another way to increase both government and my taxes?
As stated above, “researchers could not be sure whether people had used the drug continuously since they first tried it.”
You know what would be a good study correlating marijuana use and increase in hypertension?
Finding out if the participants had been using the drug during the study period instead of asking if they had EVER TRIED it.
Do you read the things you link before claiming they support your argument, or do you just look at the title and post the URL?
Funny enough, integrity matters in the Google topic called Reuters left leaning. So, which is it?
In reality, they are centrist and actually legitimate news organization in every sense of the word. One ideology does not have a monopoly on the truth.
The fact is, that study was poorly conducted. Their controls were poor to say the least.
And once again, we, the conservative, freedom-loving bunch of people on this board say: So what? Even if pot led to early death, pancreatitis, cirrhosis, stomach cancer, throat cancer, depression (wait, I am talking about alcohol again, a perfectly legal drug)…then that would still be the choice for someone to use by themselves. How dare the government try to stop someone from doing something that A)doesn’t hurt anyone in and of the act itself. and B)causes prison overcrowding and soaring incarceration rates and cost nationwide.
Stop the private prison lobbies. Stop breaking up families. Stop vilifying something that tens of millions of people nationwide do or have done safely for generations.
Stop trampling on my freedoms!
Polar, saw that study just today done by the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology. Hypertension problems leading to 3 times the risk of non pot users and grows with each year they smoke it. Oops, this tends to negate the positives of the drug, doesn’t it. Dopeheads, keep on smoking please and you will be pushing up daisies in a few years or have congenitive heart failure and no chance of a normal life. Strokes are common too.
Agent, did you know that study had “…limitations in the way marijuana use was assessed — including that researchers could not be sure whether people had used the drug continuously since they first tried it.”?
The CONTINUITY of use of pot doesn’t invalidate the study.
U R grasping at straws, now.
Of course it does! If the study can’t definitively say “these are regular users” and only admits “these people tried it at least once” their results are inconclusive.
In YOUR mind it does.
Extrapolating to the absurd… does your requirement mean smoking 24/7/365, each year, for ‘continuity’? If not, what time gaps are permitted? Reply please to the SPECIFIC questions above… Ready, steady, … GO!
The results were “smoking marijuana increases the risk of hypertention 3 times.” The study admits it can’t tell us how often these people smoked marijuana.
No correlation between smoking weed and increased hypertention can be concluded if we do not know how often these folks smoked.
As far as the study tells us:
(1) If I smoke one joint my entire life, I am 3 times more likely than non smokers to have hypertention, AND
(2) If I smoke one joint an hour my entire life, I am still 3 times more likely than non smokers to have hypertention!
Continuity should have been defined in the study.
Doesn’t need to be smoked, Agent. Please, please, please, educate yourself before making blanket commentary on a topic. Thanks in advance.
‘smoked’ is a blanket verb for various types of consumption.
I can’t wait to smoke my turkey sandwich and apple at lunch!
I have smoked chicken in my salad today. I don’t think “smoked” means it’s been previously consumed.
I can’t wait to smoke a good smoked pulled pork sandwich while smoking a Dr. Pepper. My favorite things to smoke and smoke…while smoking.
These last 3 comments entertained me greatly. Thanks for the laugh before the weekend.
Agent,
Based on this logic, we should also make cigarettes, sugar, fat, alcohol, processed foods, soda, competitive sports, knives, guns, bows and arrows, fire, power tools, ladders, hammers, nails, saws of all kinds, mining activities, law enforcement, firefighters, living in any natural disaster-prone areas, transportation, and any other potentially dangerous item or activity illegal.
Let’s leave to to the grand government to keep is safe from any harm.
I prefer to use education so we the people can make our own decisions based on what we learn about the risks.
No, Ron. Everything else is okay, but weed for some unknown reason is BAD and should therefore be BANNED!
Yay big government!
Yay increased control over lives!
Yay conservatives not being completely and nakedly hypocritical about this!
Doug,
Positions like these taken by Republicans are why I left the party and became an Independent. Whether it is advocating for more government, taking rights away from states, and being fiscally irresponsible, they are constantly going against their core values and winning elections by pointing out the flaws of the Democratic Party, not there own accomplishments.
The Independent Party may not espouse all of the values of Conservatives, but at least they are honest and far less hypocritical.
No one who believes in liberty and small government should be in favor of anti-drug laws. The only time drug use should be a matter of law is if the user breaks some other law or puts anyone else or property of others in danger, et al. Drug addiction is a separate issue. (addiction just as often comes from legal opiate drug prescriptions as from experimentation on the street….save this discussion for another day.)
Our country tried this with alcohol prohibition. That failed. The most wealthy and mighty had private bars and stores of booze, and only the those of lower stature got nabbed. Same now with illegal drugs…disproportionate criminalizing of minorities and poor.
Any State that forbids medical marijuana is deplorable, but they are taking the word of “medical professionals” who look at their E&O and are afraid to back anything not FDA approved.
But consider this: how can big pharmaceutical industry start to make profit off marijuana research and development if the substance cannot be legally purchased or transported across State lines? The Federal laws seem to be standing in the way of legit industry doing the research, and so they have no choice but to try to discredit the small growers who make medical claims. I think if you follow the money, you will know why pot plants are legal or not.
Thank you for your comment. Incredibly well said and reasoned.
The history of hemp and marijuana prohibition is a mess and truly embarrassing.
I am glad to see public opinion turning towards legalization so hard that the next democratic president in office will probably legalize it outright, or at least decriminalize possession for personal use entirely.
I thought of more terrible things that progressive thinkers have done over the years:
Child labor laws
Girls being allowed to go to school
Suffrage for women and blacks
Freeing the slaves
National Parks
Overtime pay
Good thing conservatives were there to stop any more of their nefarious plans from taking hold.
Marijuana legalization is inevitable. The smartest states will follow Colorado and Washington’s lead and legalize it and tax the crap out of it to add to the local economies.
Think of all the poor southern states and how they could benefit their schools, roads, and infrastructure with the massive tax proceeds that legal weed could bring.
Yes, those states also have the highest incidences of obesity by far, so you will need a program to counteract further weight-gain as a result of the munchies, but I am sure someone could cook up a good idea for that.
I hear you, Doug. NORML is having an impact. It’s about time!
Liberty is restricted for those who are subject to crimes committed by criminals violating drug laws.
Marijuana IS NOT THE ONLY PAIN RELIEF DRUG.
Get off your high, …very high, …stoned, horse.
For most users, the side effects of marijuana are far less severe and has almost zero drug interactions.
The only high horse would be someone looking down on another person for doing something perfectly normal and safe. As safe as a can of beer, safer than a cigarette.