You’re right, it’s the guns themselves that are the problem.
Heavily regulate guns and you will see far fewer mass shootings. Look to literally every other country on the planet who has chosen to do the same and see the same positive results in gun crime.
The NRA is only “evil” because they have decided that no life (much less the tens of thousands each year lost or damaged by guns) is precious enough to get in the way of mass gun ownership. Guns > Lives. I personally love shooting firearms, but would be perfectly fine never doing so again if it meant I had to go through rigorous training and certification to do so. It’s just not that important to me. If it is for other people, it will benefit society that only responsible people own guns and they will be better prepared to own, handle, and shoot the firearms that they so love.
Japan makes it that difficult, and their gun crime rate is almost non-existent. Don’t say it can’t be done.
4 people disagreed with what I said apparently, but couldn’t enunciate why.
I get it: you think the freedom to own something is more important than the lives lost because of that something’s existence.
Personally, I do not. Those that train and get licensed for (after lengthy instruction and demonstration of proper use) gun ownership can keep them, but nobody on this planet should touch an instrument of death without knowing exactly how to handle them and have a clean, non-violent past without a history of mental illness. The risk, as demonstrated by the countless numbers of lost lives, is too great.
DNCs Coll(F)usion GPShip Strzok an IceberGowdy says:
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Let me explain why you’re wrong. I’m sure you’ll disagree. I’m doing it for the benefit of other readers, to point out your brainwashed mentality. I know you will reject my comments, which doesn’t bother me because of your bias and ignorance of facts.
Politicians and others with armed bodyguards who push for greater gun control laws DO NOT FEAR the guns carried by properly vetted bodyguards. The key word is ‘properly vetted’. Think about it.
No gun has ever shot and injured / killed anyone without someone shooting it, intentionally or accidentally. Accidents can be prevented. Intent is more difficult to prevent.
Schools were legislatively changed to ‘gun free zones’ by Dems a few decades ago, and have since been the most vulnerable soft targets of insane people who willfully VIOLATE ANY GUN LAWS in existence.
Lawfully owned guns provide protection to their registered and trained owners from guns unlawfully owned by criminals. If not, many more lives would be lost than in school shootings. That is a result of actual self-defense against attacks AND due to the deterrent effect of a gun owner who can protect him/herself.
“No gun has ever shot and injured / killed anyone without someone shooting it, intentionally or accidentally.”
Wrong. For example, Remington’s oldest, and one of its most popular guns had a trigger defect for years that caused it to fire on its own, and it killed and injured people. Remington knew about it and covered it up, and were able to do so because of the gun liability laws conservatives defend so they can keep their guns and live in a fantasy world at the expense of innocent people, including children.
You don’t know what you are talking about, stop dismissively replying to people in a condescending manner, like your can teach anybody here anything. You aren’t even informed on your pet issues, and you don’t know insurance. You don’t seem to work in insurance. Stop posting incorrect information as lies. I know you support White Supremacy so the site won’t ever do anything because they seem to be sympathetic to it too, and most likely you work for the site. .
February 26, 2018 at 1:17 pm
TXAgent says:
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Look to Australia they had a gun buy back program.
The results:
Death Rate by guns in crimes went up 42%
For every 1 gun purchased by the Government 2 more guns purchased by Australians.
Try again Cut the Bias!
Name one NRA member who has committed a mass school shooting? Just one!
Can’t do that, but I could probably find at least a few who have been sending death threats to Parkland students who survived the shooting…
Look, it’s a very emotional issue. How many more kids have to die before we actually do something about it? If Trump actually does make it harder to buy AR-15’s or adds more restrictions to help screen potential gun owners, will you abandon him?
February 26, 2018 at 2:05 pm
FFA says:
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Hey Bias, what have the strictest gun laws in the country – Chicago – done for them? Blame the law on the record setting murder rates?
If you say, “lol, snopes” then I am done discussing this with you. They source their information and factual analysis, and so if you have a problem with them, you have a problem with literal facts.
February 26, 2018 at 4:03 pm
Realist says:
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Nasty facts
February 26, 2018 at 5:01 pm
Cut the Bias says:
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Also:
the NRA doesn’t publish its member list. How could anyone blame them if nobody knows who is a member and who isn’t? For all I know, every single mass murderer is an NRA member.
By all means, prove me wrong. See how unsubstantiated comments go both ways and are stupid? Either way, it isn’t the NRA that anyone is going again directly, its the vile anti-legislation that they push. If they go back to being a reasonable advocate for safe gun ownership and safe guns, like they were in the 1970s, then more reasonable people will support them.
February 27, 2018 at 8:26 am
Tax Cuts 4 PolaRich Bears says:
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@Sal; I’m calling you out/ calling your bluff; Please list here the names of NRA members who recently sent death threats to FL schools. Ready, steady, …. GO!
February 27, 2018 at 8:28 am
Tax Cuts 4 PolaRich Bears says:
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@Cut the Bias; you made my day by giving us a means of ending your blabber. “Snopes, lol” and “Snopes is for dopes”.
February 27, 2018 at 8:38 am
Tax Cuts 4 PolaRich Bears says:
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Finally, the diversion of this discussion to ‘the NRA is at fault’ from the actual killer is designed to divert attention from the ACTUAL problem of insufficient mental health screening and vetting of ‘dangerous’ people who seek to buy guns or get them illegally.
In the end, the push to control gun ownership is a systematic move toward removal of Rights, granted by the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, by Socialists seeking greater government control over US citizens. Their efforts will only result in greater pushback by law abiding citizens. It’s very important to note that many Dems own guns, lawfully, and will fight liberal Socialists’ over-reactions.
February 27, 2018 at 9:55 am
sal says:
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Here are the links. Instead of reading them, please discredit the sources first.
“Hey Bias, what have the strictest gun laws in the country – Chicago – done for them? Blame the law on the record setting murder rates?”
Not teue, The court cases Heller and then McDonald v City of Chicago eliminated their effective ban in 2010 & 2012. This is of course right when the murder rate increased. Saying they are at record levels is, of course, wrong as well. They were higher during almost the entire Reagan presidency, and from about 1950-70. Even among other big cities Chicago doesn’t have the highest murder rate, it was 8th a couple years ago the last time I checked after the usual imbeciles started repeating this falsehood. If you don’t exclude small cities it’s even further down the list.
Please, conservatives, stop inundating with lies and incorrect statements, this used to be a decent place to come for information related to insurance.
February 26, 2018 at 10:57 am
Agent says:
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Jack, we are now up to 4 total deputies that did nothing. The Sheriff should be fired for incompetence and all these deputies relieved of their duties.
Confused says- $1000 says it was “policy” to wait for SWAT. Thank the guy that developed that policy for a few deaths. They were not good guys with guns knowing kids were being killed and staying outside. I bet the shooting had stopped before they got there, which again proves someone need to be armed on site….someone with the guts to kill the killer.
February 26, 2018 at 1:30 pm
Confused says:
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none of your “thoughts” are borne out of any facts of this tragedy.
February 26, 2018 at 2:07 pm
FFA says:
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Cowards… All 4 of them. Incompetence by the sheriffs department (reports say he is an elected Dem). FBI drops the ball.
People need to be fired over this that’s for sure.
At least Trump is doing something about it.
February 26, 2018 at 2:51 pm
Agent says:
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4 good guys hiding behind concrete pillars will never stop a shooter inside. All they will be doing is loading body bags long after it is over.
February 26, 2018 at 3:38 pm
Confused says:
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Yeah, exactly – we’re on the same page here Agent! Just because a good guy has a gun does not mean they will always stop the bad guys with guns. Thanks for finally agreeing with me!!
February 26, 2018 at 4:42 pm
HAHAHA says:
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Confused,
This string is exactly what the comment section on this site has become. A regular comment, followed by someone who just decided to talk out of their A@@, make up some things they “bet” happened, to further prove a statement that fits their opinion.
More of the same. More of the same.
February 27, 2018 at 8:44 am
Tax Cuts 4 PolaRich Bears says:
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@Confused: apparently, you assumed for convenience of YOUR argument that the 4 deputies are ‘good guys with guns’. For now, I’ll withhold judgement until the facts are in about their actions. Facts will eventually emerge.
I can safely assume that Nikolas is a bad guy with guns. It’s highly likely the FBI and other law enforcement agents dropped the ball on arresting Nikolas ahead of his rampage. I’d like to see the details behind that likely error in judgement.
February 27, 2018 at 8:55 am
Confused says:
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If they really were bad guys with guns, they would’ve helped kill innocent people and would not have assisted local law enforcement
February 26, 2018 at 2:56 pm
Agent says:
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I think the Loss Experience would be great on the NRA members. They are not the ones causing the problems.
I’m sure this will put an end to all school shootings, making the NRA buy insurance somewhere else! More PC corporate nonsense. Way to go Chubb, you silly insurance people! (Next up: Chubb announces they won’t insure Russians.)
One company leaves, another company comes in, it helps the smaller companies trying to grow it’s marketplace. What happened in Florida is a tragedy, but to blame it all on guns rather than not addressing the issue head on, such as the reckless way many kids are being raised nowadays, the lack of discipline, perhaps anti-depressants and lack of a traditional household. When guns are being mentioned as the only issue, then this is really political manipulation rather than addressing the core issues. The kid could have used a number of other tools should he not have had a gun, such as his vehicle, a bomb and you name it.
You’re right! Anyone who – whether or not they are NRA followers – should pay attention to the recent address by the President of the NRA who called out Shumer along with his party and the Main Stream Medias who have profited from these shootings over the last 30 years by their callous actions to shift blame to guns when they have failed to enforce current laws requiring the registration of adjudicated and diagnosed individuals who should have and would have been prohibited from firearms purchase. Politicians who have lined their incumbent pockets with special interest funds that purchased their legislative votes.
Ummm…it was Trump and other Republicans who were persuaded by the NRA to remove the restrictions that people who have been diagnosed with a mental disorder would be unable to purchase a firearm.
When the Las Vegas shooter killed dozens a few months back, a public outcry rang out against bump stocks, but did anything get done on them? No, instead, Republicans impeded any calls for banning or restricting them.
As I recall the restriction that was put in place was to take away the rights of those who received social security benefits but needed help with their finances from possessing firearms. From where I sit that is certainly a long way from a mental disorder.
I hope you posted this prior Trump calling to ban the bump stocks. On the noon news 2/26/2018, he was also calling for tighter restrictions on the mental health/back round check issue as well as raising the min age to buy a gun.
If he was, seems he in no longer on the NRA payroll.
Reference: “I would have run in there even with no gun…”
You really think a three-time draft dodger would be running TOWARDS gunfire? give me a break. Call me when Congress votes to ban bump stocks and reinstates mental health checks when they previously voted to remove those same restrictions.
March 1, 2018 at 4:47 pm
Cut the Bias says:
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As expected, all that “talk” was just a ton of politician shine, and nothing else. The Senate and House are both moving on to discuss other bills and topics next week, leaving the gun control debate behind. So, what happens now?
Gun show loopholes?
private party sales?
mental health checks?
training and licensing?
sensible gun control?
No movement on a single item. The US will continue to have insanely high murder rates for the developed world, and everyone will just continue on until the next mass shooting happens. Which, historically should be ANY MINUTE.
February 23, 2018 at 2:07 pm
Norm Nunnally says:
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Well we are beginning to see the extent that foreign interests are willing to go to disrupt not only elections but purchase public opinion media in efforts to derail our system of government and our society. Chubb’s untimely choice disenrollment of coverage for the NRA flies in the face of any sound decision that demonstrates their true convictions of alleged support of our Nations underpinnings – The Constitution of the United States. How much revenue was guaranteed by outside special interest groups with nefarious backing to purchase that decision? Insurance Groups and Underwriters are in the business of mitigating risks and hazards – NOT ENGAGING IN POLITICAL SIDE SHOWS FOR PREMIUMS.
Read the second amendment carefully and completely, where’s the right for individuals other than as a militia to have guns? You guys always argue about the “right” to individually own guns…it says nothing about that.
Actually, the Supreme court said so –
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms and was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.
The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals, while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.
State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from infringing this right, per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
Chis is mostly correct, but not 100%. The US Supreme Court has ruled for both the “militia” theory and the “individual” theory. As of a case in 2008, it seems they believe the second amendment regulates the individuals right to bear arms. See this link for a comprehensive explanation: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment
“Murder Insurance?” No, it is called liability insurance to protect me against claims filed if I have to use my concealed weapon to save my life or that of a member of my family. And it also provides way beyond what my personal liability policy covers. I can see more of these companies backing away from not only the NRA, but from anything to do with legal carry clients as a way to enforce some kind of gun control by not providing the coverage’s we need.
ignorance abounds. “Guns Down America, said that last November it petitioned Chubb to stop selling what it called “murder insurance.” Self defense is not murder, but don’t let facts get in the way. I see tons of anti gun people shouting on social media that gun owners should have to have insurance in case they shoot someone, but then they tell the insurance companies that provide such insurance to stop selling it.
These comments make me sick to my stomach. Where in all of this is logic? There is no “god give right” to weapons. What freakin zealot twisted alt Christian logic are we talking about here? No different than any other religious extremists, all of you.
There is a thing called freedom. Govt exists only to limit freedoms. Because one person every now and then uses a legal product for a bad reason doesn’t mean you punish everyone else.
Banks, govt buildings, jewelry stores and others are guarded with armed guards, locked doors, etc. The answer for people like you is to ban guns because you soil yourself thinking about putting up resistance. We should defend our children the way we defend the country–with a strong defense.
Don’t begin to judge me or my experience. You sit and type words trying to wrap yourself, your guilt in terms of freedom and liberty. Faceless cowards. Where is the freedom of those children removed from their families? How is your freedom greater than theirs?
Got no guilt cause I didn’t pull the trigger. You see it takes some one PULLING the trigger. IT TAKES SOMEONE PULLING THE TRIGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1000 babies a day dead because of “freedom of choice” What about their freedom?
Notice that’s a high capacity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! keyboard shaped like a gun too.
February 23, 2018 at 3:17 pm
Augustine says:
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RealityBites. I love it. You say “What freakin zealot twisted alt Christian logic are we talking about here? No different than any other religious extremists, all of you.” Then you go on to say, “Don’t begin to judge me or my experience.” Then you spout off another ad hominem devoid of any logic calling people “faceless cowards.” By the way RealityBites, when you claim “logic,” or lack thereof, it is best when you use it yourself. Both your comments are devoid of argumentation and literally consist of one large ad hominem coupled with a straw man fallacy (you can look those up if you would like). What utter hypocrisy! You judgmentally insinuate that everyone supporting the second amendment is some fundamentalist nut job, then you tell people not to judge you! Priceless! That’s like punching someone in the face, getting punched back, and yelling “whatever did I do to you!”
My comments were directed to the comments as they existed on the site and were not generalized as you have stated. But please tell me how LaPierre connects gun ownership as a god given right? Seriously? C’mon man. And, yes. I own weapons, am an avid hunter and I support the 2nd amendment. I don’t own an assault rifle and have never seen the need to own one.
February 23, 2018 at 3:35 pm
Augustine says:
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RealityBites, I agree that it is hard to argue that gun ownership is a “God given” right. I don’t agree with LaPierre’s comments and, like you, I also don’t have an AR-15.
February 23, 2018 at 3:49 pm
Jack says:
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Self defense is a God given right. Go away and use a pickle if you would like. Good luck and don’t call the cops because they have guns and might scare you. Of course they may just hide in the bush like the on duty officer at the school did and let you die.
February 26, 2018 at 2:20 pm
underbroker says:
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Reality Bites, do your hunting rifles have the ability to hold more than 1 bullet at time or do you have a multi shot magazine that you insert into your weapon when you go hunting?
If multi shot magazine, how long does it take you to eject one round and load another then fire the weapon, I’m sure just a tad slower than a semi automatic weapon.
Lee Harvey Oswald managed to get several shots off in a matter of seconds with a single bolt action rifle……
February 27, 2018 at 9:04 am
Tax Cuts 4 PolaRich Bears says:
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@Reality Bites: it is a Straw Man Argument to turn the discussion from US Constitutional Rights under Am.2 to Wayne LaPierre’s comments. His comments, wrong or right, do NOT invalidate the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. Your method of debate is full of holes and easy to refute. Finally, many Dems are LAWFUL owners of guns who don’t follow the ultra-liberal talking points you espouse. Think about why they don’t.
February 25, 2018 at 8:35 pm
Norm Nunnally says:
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Wayne, apparently you have not read, or worse did not understand , the Constitution. Your statement that – “Govt exists only to limit freedoms.” is surely a sophomoric statement far from any form of truth when you are speaking of the Constitution of these United States. In fact the Government is only allowed to function with the express consent of US the citizens- while the first ten amendments known and our Bills of Rights protects of from any such overreach from government attempt to operate outside the confines of the Constitution. If the Government is not functioning in your particular area in which you reside then you have only one person to blame and that is you for not paying attention to who you elect and what they are doing. Hold them responsible or throw the bumbs out.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are natural rights, how can you say that humans do not have the right to these? What gives you the right to determine how someone protects themselves? Animals have claws, teeth, speed, and strength at their disposal; while humans have intelligence at ours, and we have used that intelligence to create weapons since the beginning of time.
Realitybites- good name for ya, defend yourself with a pickle then if you don’t believe in the right to self defense. Taking my right to it and that of women that may have to use it in cases of rape etc makes me think you hate women. Don’t want one, don’t buy it. And I always love the Christian reference from you sorts. Go pick on a muslim why don’t ya? Oh that’s right, they will car bomb you or use an airplane.
Well done sir, well done. Twist, spin and deflect. The “muslim” card? Seriously?! Your comments are not germane to the topic. My son defended your freedom to hate, and so be it.
So which side did your family fight on in the civil war?
February 26, 2018 at 12:42 pm
Jack says:
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Hmmmm- I didn’t own any slaves and you didn’t pick any cotton.
March 6, 2018 at 12:43 pm
Agent says:
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Jack, saw a great NRA commercial last year. This beautiful young woman came home and was minding her business and a thug outside started banging on her door. She went and got her Glock out of her safe and was waiting for him to break in. When he did, she had that Glock trained on him. He immediately fainted when he realized she meant to blow him away. Well, the Police that took some time eventually hauled him away after they woke him up.
Are you on here as an agent? If so then are you going to put aside you views on guns (AR, or otherwise) long enough to provide your clients with the coverage they need if they own a weapon and have a CCW? That is really the point of my response to the article.
I would like to see the list of companies that don’t need the business of the millions of NRA members, so that this member can avoid upsetting the snowflakes companies.
650 people murdered in Chicago 2017. Where’s the CNN special, where’s the children in the streets crying for them, where’s any liberal new network on it? You guessed it.
Get your self def insurance at USCCA.
Gotta run, my neighbor just called and said my AR-15 was out walking the dog again.
America was founded, before its constitution or amendments, on the human right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Children in schools nationwide are threatened almost daily as they go about those rights. And that’s wrong. Their right to live, to be free to learn, and to grow up and continue their pursuit of happiness trumps any right to “bear arms” as a single group’s definition of liberty. Yes, too many children today are unhappy, angry, disturbed, under-parented and under-treated. Yes, most gun owners are sportsmen, enthusiasts and deeply law-abiding. But we have to draw a line about the type of weapons available, define a consistent and national standard for purchase, demand liability for that weapon by its owner until a LEGAL transfer is made or a theft is documented and legally addressed if owner fault is shown, and we must halt the availability of tools to modify weapons to military functions. In a town full of hunters and gun enthusiasts, I’m sure most guns are very safely locked and the children in those homes are well lectured and monitored. But I am still scared for those kids and mine because the power of guns is easily glorified, manipulated and used — as we’ve seen. Again. And Again. And Again and again. It has to stop. Something has to give.
Jack, one of the worst ideas of the leftist Progressives was the creation of “Gun Free Zones”. That is an open invitation for thugs to do shootings because the law abiding citizens cannot protect themselves.
Jestr says –
[“Read the second amendment carefully and completely, where’s the right for individuals other than as a militia to have guns? You guys always argue about the “right” to individually own guns…it says nothing about that.”]
Actually, the Supreme Court says so –
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms and was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.
The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals, while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.
State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from infringing this right, per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
Just me: firstly I’d have never bought Chubb stock had I known of their affiliation.
Gun don’t kill people- people kill people: guns just make it so easy.
Disgraceful. I for one will never place any business with Chubb. It is unfortunate Chubb does not feel care as much about our Constitution and rights as a free people as the Founding Fathers did when they wrote the Second Amendment.
Not sure how the NRA is responsible for any wacko using a gun. Personal accountability is out the door anymore. Congress has the power to tighten gun laws they just won’t do it.
Maybe we should do it like Japan, No guns except hunting rifles and no guns for cops. Cops use batons and their Ninja skills to subdue criminals. Also in Japan shot a gun in public, 3-5 yrs, If you did not have it registered 15yrs, Kill someone, death penalty. In US, lets blame society and figure out why the individual had a hard life and feel sorry for them because they are a victim too.
Amazing, the AR-15 has been available for civilian sale since the mid 60s, yet only in the last 20 years have we had all of these mass shooters. Drugging the kids so they won’t be a handful for the teachers, taking away recess, banning many contact sports like dodge ball, feminization of boys, suspending and calling the policy because a kid brings a 1″ tall plastic army man with a “gun”
When we lived in the UK, we had to go through a criminal background check, a mental health check, keep the guns in a locked cabinet bolted to the ground and the ammunition stored a certain distance away locked up and the police did make sure that we kept those guns locked up. Had we misused them, committed any type of crime or had been found at any time to be mentally unfit, they would have been removed immediately. Upon returning to the US, we didn’t have to do anything however we proceeded with keeping the guns locked in a cabinet etc. It should be further noted we never ever considered having an AR 15 and never would. In closing, since we consider the NRA to be nothing but a far right political organization with their own perverse agenda, we never became members. Very happy to see reasonable people speaking out against them with many members giving up their membership.
Well, in the state of CT I had to got through all sorts of hoops and hurdles to legally possess a pistol. An all-day gun class with notarized certificate of completion to be brought to the town PD to then complete two applications for a temporary pistol permit, one local, one state. The local required three (3) character references. The state required electronic fingerprints to file with the NICS and to do the instant background check that took six weeks. I passed, and a temporary permit good for sixty (60) days was sent to the local PD, which I then retrieved. Once I had possession I had to take it and myself to the state police barracks where they issue permits and show up in person, stand in line and have my photo taken and permit issued. Mind you, for each part of the sequence in this chain of events, I was writing checks, none less then $100 and that was before I ever purchased a gun or ammo. As for the UK, I am sick of listening to the holier than thou nonsense. The UK violent crime statistics far outpace those of the USA, and since guns are difficult to get one’s hands on, there is an epidemic of knifings in the UK, so much so that NHS along with localities have campaign for folks to hand in their knives, and have depositories on streets for folks to toss those knives into. (I’m suspecting the only knives surrendered are those which had already been used during the commission of a crime.) Speaking of knives, according to the FBI Table 8, five-times as many intentional homicides are as a result of knives than are from rifles – that’s ALL rifles, not just that menacing-looking black one. Finally, the NRA is a membership group that promotes safe gun handling. The NICS was invented by the NRA. The problem with background checks isn’t the need for more, it’s the need for the states to actually report felons and mentally adjudicated people to the Prohibited Persons List. 38 states fail to report 20% or more prohibited persons each year to the National Instant Check System, which is why too many folks fall through the cracks. In 2010 alone 80,000 prohibited persons actually tried to get permits – a felony. Of those 80,000 only 44 of them were prosecuted. Boy, that sure sounds like the NRA caused those failures. Blaming the NRA for gun deaths is akin to blaming AAA for automobile deaths,
Chubb’s decision surprises me. How many claims did they have to defend? It is rare for an IRA member to be involved in a gun crime. One law enforcement officer wrote he had handled over 5000 cases, none involving an NRA member. I would welcome them as customers. No. I do not own a gun. WGR
The personal lines property/casualty insurers are not guilt free. If a risk presents a 49cc moped or a jon boat with a 27.5hp outboard motor, the insurers all hide behind stacks of exclusions. These same insurers typically offer $100K Section 2 liability coverage and $2500 physical damage coveragefor firearms risks at no extra cost. They not only refuse to investigate the mental suitability of gun owning risks, there isn’t even a question on the application as to how many AR-15 murder rifles an applicant has scattered around the house. Underwriting?
Boondoggle,
Could it possibly be that companies are willing to offer the limits you mention due to the fact that historically the claims presented due to owned firearms under a personal lines policy have been insignificant from a liability perspective. I hope you understand why that is, it is due to the fact that in almost all shootings the act of pulling the trigger is an “intentional” one and therefor excluded from coverage provided by section 2. That is precisely why NRA and other pro gun organizations offer group coverage for liability related to self defense etc. as the standard unendorsed personal lines policy is not intended to respond in the vast majority of the cases.
A topic as polarizing as this almost always disappoints me with the simplistic responses. There is plenty of blame to go around and there is no simple solution. Again, the responsibility goes back to our politicians. If we took the time, and could get access to all of the deliberation that has taken place I bet all sides of the argument have some great ideas, but neither party wants to let the other have a “win” in public opinion because it will cost them votes! If you listen to NRA they have offered a number of solutions relating to back ground checks, and national list of criminal and mentally affected individuals. And, I am sure that most agree someone under the age of 21 should not be able to purchase a semi automatic rifle that allows for large magazine use. And, we should have much stronger security at all of our schools.
Sorry, I guess I missed the point of the topic. Companies have the freedom to support or protest any group that they feel violates their beliefs or their customers beliefs. Then we all can choose how to use that company, if at all.
Surely, there’s no problem with guns as such (although there’s little legitimacy for owning automatics). The problem in the US has come about as a result of extremely poor (in some cases, non existent) vetting of those wishing to own and carry guns. How this is to be corrected is difficult. There are now so many weapons in circulation, and many of those are in the hands of criminals, it’s almost impossible to retroactively control/police.
Switzerland requires it’s citizens to be armed (unless the authorities deem you to be unfit to own a gun or you register as a conscientious objector). Whilst one can’t say that there have not been some shootings, they have been extremely rare and by no means more prevalent than in countries that have very restrictive gun laws.
It is a problem that doesn’t have an easy answer. However, making it less socially acceptable to be carrying weapons, other than at legitimate times such as whilst hunting and at shooting ranges, might help to reduce the general unquestioning acceptance that a large number of US citizens carry firearms as a matter course.
This is a complex subject that has become highly emotional and extremely political. These are my points:
Long rifles murder very few, about a 1/6th compared to knives. However the mass shooting impact at schools and churches is horrific and effective by the killer. I believe most purchasers of this weapon buy it because of one of the intents of the second amendment to allow citizens the right to bear arms against a government that has gone against and threatens their liberty. This might be scary to some, but I believe it to be true, whether it is admitted or not. This is why there would be so much resistance to limiting or confiscating these weapons, it would be proving their point that it is the first step by government to limit citizens to protect themselves from a government gone bad. The silent majority believes this but won’t admit it publicly for fear of the gun limiting segment shaming. The greater overwhelming threat is handguns and this is viewed as the weapon of choice for home protection, so no chance for limiting this weapon.
I see much stronger and coordinated tightening of background checks, increased scrutiny of mental health issues and increasing the age to purchase AR 15 type of weapons as a first and probably last step as a compromise. Trump will show he is compassionate and the left will show that lobbying and pressure finally worked. However, none of these will prevent another attempt….only hardening of the target , especially schools , by competent and brave security personnel(certainly not the ones at SD, including the chief) passed by state legislatures with federal government financial support through the Dept. of Education with training programs and best practices security support to protect our kids. We protect our sporting events better than our kids?
I agree with nearly everything you said. Closing the gun show loophole is long overdue and would be a huge first step. If anyone get stopped trying to purchase a gun at a store, they can immediately go on the facebook and find a seller – no problem – thus avoiding the background check system. The NRA strongly opposes this on the grounds law abiding gun owners should be able to sell/trade their weapons whenever they want, despite the fact they know many felons use this avenue to acquire guns.
The ability to prevent mentally ill persons from getting a gun is a very complex problem as it involves privacy issues. Besides, mental health issues are not always present; they can come and go, like many other illnesses. There are no quick fixes here but better notification systems would help.
Hardening schools will help some but the costs would ENORMOUS and that would only direct the shooters to other soft targets such as shopping malls, concerts and movie theaters. Soft targets will always abound in a free society.
The problem is we have WAY too many guns in society.
Meanwhile, here in Wi, Walker is looking to are school personnel. Teacher / Administrator / Sanitation engineer / Food service worker, don’t matter. The list of former military personnel as well as retired law enforcement is getting long to hold security guard positions. I know a certain school buss driver is locked & loaded. Kids complain about him being grumpy, but they are protected.
Seems people in this neck of the woods want this. Seems they are not waiting on DC.
Didn’t Morgan Freeman already try locking school doors around 1987-1989 at the Eastside High School in Paterson, New Jersey? I don’t think that ended too well.
FFA, I have a close friend who just retired from Assistant Police Chief here. I asked him what he would have done in the same situation. He said he had 14 in the clip and 1 in the chamber and would have made Swiss Cheese out of that kid. Think it might have saved a lot of young lives in the process.
My nephew served in Afghanistan now doing (armed) security in the ship yards is ready to go. Just one that I know is more then ready willing and able. He’s got some pretty harsh things to say about the call to dis arm America.
Putting a gun in the hand of someone not willing to use it is useless. I don’t think any less of the school personnel that don’t want to do it. Im sure there are ready willing and able people up for the task. They need to stop talking Teachers all the time. All that will happen is the teacher ends up with a target on them.
Guns are a state issue first. Licensing comes from the state. That is why the US congress needs to stop with the showboating and promenading, and work on things under their direct jurisdiction, like that mess that is Obamacare.
FFA, sounds to me like your governor is doing the right thing. Doubt that there will be any cowards in that line up. Protect the kids and be a hero if anyone tries anything.
Emma and I are calling BS on Chubb’s assertion that they decided to end the program 3 months ago. They certainly made no such announcement. It is pretty clear that the parkland shooting forced their hand and rightly so.
Insurance has a role to play in responsible gun ownership. For example all gun owners should be required to purchase an insurance policy. Rates should be derived from a study of the societal cost of gun violence. These costs are real and a lot higher than most would expect. Consider the building where all those Parkland students were gunned down. There is already talk of tearing it down and rebuilding (they did same at sandy hook). Is it fair that the citizens of Parkland should have to pay for a new school; have they not been made to suffer enough already?
What Chubb and Lockton were doing with NRA Carry Guard was irresponsible from the start. Such a program encouraged concealed carry and normalized the idea that we all need guns whenever we leave our front door. Insurance should be used to incentivize good behavior — not encourage reckless actions.
Just my 2 cents. Feel free to lambaste me. yes, I am one of those “idiots” who does not like guns. I am a family man and would NEVER have a gun in my home. In my 56 years of living I have never been in a situation where I thought, “Daman, I wish I had a gun on me at this moment.” I have, however, been in lots of messed-up situations where I was glad no one had a gun on them. Guns do not make society safer. I wish the second Amendment never existed.
Self def insurance did not encourage reckless actions- it filled the gap where insurance carriers failed to cover people defending themselves and others. 99% of people conceal carry before they buy the insurance, I did.
If guns don’t make it safer, why do policy carry them?
What happens when there is no insurance to cover accidental or self def shootings?
Answer- liberals will cry about about not having deep pockets to sue. Guns are not going away liberals so when the above occurs, remember you pulled the trigger on killing big settlements.
Jack,
You do not see the other possibilities for this. I believe this move is from multiple companies for the NRA to promote social change for increased gun regulations. Who knows if the US imposes more restrictions on how to get a gun (background checks) and what guns a civilian can own (no fully auto hopefully) then the companies may join again due to the perceived lowered risk of who has a gun. I am not saying this will happen, but do not assume it will go away. Also no one is saying guns are going away, but currently there are those who should not have these that do. If you are a law abiding citizen who can pass the checks then you should not worry about this. Again I am saying this about the companies promoting change.
1. There hasn’t been a “fully auto” used in a mass killing.
2.You are taking away insurance from people responsible enough to buy it.
3. There will never be gun confiscation in the US, therefore there will always be people that “should not” have them. Then I don’t trust the government to say who should have them given #4.
4. We have millions of illegal aliens in sanctuary cities so “law abiding citizen” is a misnomer when your own government can’t define illegal.
5. Criminals don’t plan on going thru a background check.
I could go on and on but have realized in the past it’s a waste of time with liberals.
Please do not say it is not worth the time. You are the one who is using a very illogical point of view to do this. Why should we have murder laws if people will still kill? Why have laws about who can drive when people still drive without a license and insurance? I can also go on and on about that. The illegal immigrant part is also pointless to bring up. They are less likely to commit a crime than a US citizen (backed up by statistics). Most of these people are also overstaying visas and such so it is very hard to regulate. Still regulation is better than having it not regulated. While yes fully automatic weapons have only been used in 3 crimes since 1934, I do not believe a civilian needs to own a weapon of that kind. If you want to own things of a lesser degree you should but with the proper training. If you can pass these why would you care? The only logical reason is that you could not and would be worried about that. There are a lot of legal ways to get around these things today (gun shows).
“gun show” – so you have bought a gun at a gun show without completing the required paperwork to do so? Exactly how many guns have you bought in your life ? That’s what I thought. Speaking from ignorance or simply spewing libtarded unfacts again.
I have a concealed weapons permit. I passed those checks and balances in the system. I am the guy with the gun on his hip every day that regardless of color, religion, etc. will step in to protect life and property of mine and others.
I laugh at liberals calling Trump Hitler one minute and demanding he take our guns the next minute. You guys are the reason a plastic bag has instructions not to put it over your head.
March 13, 2018 at 1:21 pm
PerplexinMe says:
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I have bought a handgun and a hunting rifle in my lifetime and I did get training to handle these. Do not assume that because I support increased measures I am a spewing “libtarded” facts. That is just immature to reduce the other side to a variation of a serious mental illness. Should I do that to you since you have such a problem with challenging your ideas? No, please have respect for the other side that just want to see increased measures put in place to reduce (not eliminate) the amount of people who should not have this.
March 13, 2018 at 1:23 pm
PerplexinMe says:
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Also just to help “helpingout”, liberals have a higher education on average, so your plastic bags part is just a dig at the other side to enhance your point.
March 20, 2018 at 4:26 pm
Jack says:
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Just checking back with liberals today to see how you like the Maryland school shooting outcome?
Let NRA self insure now.
It’s not the NRA, dolt, it is the NRA members buying the insurance.
NRA has trained the most children and adults in gun safety. What exactly have you done?
Police received over 30 calls- did nothing
FBI got 2 tips- did nothing
On campus officer- did nothing
And liberals blame the NRA, go figure. A mental disorder i tell ya.
You’re right, it’s the guns themselves that are the problem.
Heavily regulate guns and you will see far fewer mass shootings. Look to literally every other country on the planet who has chosen to do the same and see the same positive results in gun crime.
The NRA is only “evil” because they have decided that no life (much less the tens of thousands each year lost or damaged by guns) is precious enough to get in the way of mass gun ownership. Guns > Lives. I personally love shooting firearms, but would be perfectly fine never doing so again if it meant I had to go through rigorous training and certification to do so. It’s just not that important to me. If it is for other people, it will benefit society that only responsible people own guns and they will be better prepared to own, handle, and shoot the firearms that they so love.
Japan makes it that difficult, and their gun crime rate is almost non-existent. Don’t say it can’t be done.
4 people disagreed with what I said apparently, but couldn’t enunciate why.
I get it: you think the freedom to own something is more important than the lives lost because of that something’s existence.
Personally, I do not. Those that train and get licensed for (after lengthy instruction and demonstration of proper use) gun ownership can keep them, but nobody on this planet should touch an instrument of death without knowing exactly how to handle them and have a clean, non-violent past without a history of mental illness. The risk, as demonstrated by the countless numbers of lost lives, is too great.
I couldn’t agree with you more.
Let me explain why you’re wrong. I’m sure you’ll disagree. I’m doing it for the benefit of other readers, to point out your brainwashed mentality. I know you will reject my comments, which doesn’t bother me because of your bias and ignorance of facts.
Politicians and others with armed bodyguards who push for greater gun control laws DO NOT FEAR the guns carried by properly vetted bodyguards. The key word is ‘properly vetted’. Think about it.
No gun has ever shot and injured / killed anyone without someone shooting it, intentionally or accidentally. Accidents can be prevented. Intent is more difficult to prevent.
Schools were legislatively changed to ‘gun free zones’ by Dems a few decades ago, and have since been the most vulnerable soft targets of insane people who willfully VIOLATE ANY GUN LAWS in existence.
Lawfully owned guns provide protection to their registered and trained owners from guns unlawfully owned by criminals. If not, many more lives would be lost than in school shootings. That is a result of actual self-defense against attacks AND due to the deterrent effect of a gun owner who can protect him/herself.
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Look to Australia they had a gun buy back program.
The results:
Death Rate by guns in crimes went up 42%
For every 1 gun purchased by the Government 2 more guns purchased by Australians.
Try again Cut the Bias!
Name one NRA member who has committed a mass school shooting? Just one!
Can’t do that, but I could probably find at least a few who have been sending death threats to Parkland students who survived the shooting…
Look, it’s a very emotional issue. How many more kids have to die before we actually do something about it? If Trump actually does make it harder to buy AR-15’s or adds more restrictions to help screen potential gun owners, will you abandon him?
Hey Bias, what have the strictest gun laws in the country – Chicago – done for them? Blame the law on the record setting murder rates?
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Nasty facts
Also:
the NRA doesn’t publish its member list. How could anyone blame them if nobody knows who is a member and who isn’t? For all I know, every single mass murderer is an NRA member.
By all means, prove me wrong. See how unsubstantiated comments go both ways and are stupid? Either way, it isn’t the NRA that anyone is going again directly, its the vile anti-legislation that they push. If they go back to being a reasonable advocate for safe gun ownership and safe guns, like they were in the 1970s, then more reasonable people will support them.
@Sal; I’m calling you out/ calling your bluff; Please list here the names of NRA members who recently sent death threats to FL schools. Ready, steady, …. GO!
@Cut the Bias; you made my day by giving us a means of ending your blabber. “Snopes, lol” and “Snopes is for dopes”.
Finally, the diversion of this discussion to ‘the NRA is at fault’ from the actual killer is designed to divert attention from the ACTUAL problem of insufficient mental health screening and vetting of ‘dangerous’ people who seek to buy guns or get them illegally.
In the end, the push to control gun ownership is a systematic move toward removal of Rights, granted by the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, by Socialists seeking greater government control over US citizens. Their efforts will only result in greater pushback by law abiding citizens. It’s very important to note that many Dems own guns, lawfully, and will fight liberal Socialists’ over-reactions.
Here are the links. Instead of reading them, please discredit the sources first.
http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/02/florida-shooting-survivor-gets-nra-death-threats-on-facebook.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5427445/Parkland-survivor-quits-Facebook-NRA-death-threats.html
http://www.fox25boston.com/news/florida-school-shooting-survivors-mother-says-her-family-has-received-death-threats/706661046
http://www.newsweek.com/twitter-verifies-accounts-florida-school-shooting-survivors-bid-shield-815732
Things need to change.
“Hey Bias, what have the strictest gun laws in the country – Chicago – done for them? Blame the law on the record setting murder rates?”
Not teue, The court cases Heller and then McDonald v City of Chicago eliminated their effective ban in 2010 & 2012. This is of course right when the murder rate increased. Saying they are at record levels is, of course, wrong as well. They were higher during almost the entire Reagan presidency, and from about 1950-70. Even among other big cities Chicago doesn’t have the highest murder rate, it was 8th a couple years ago the last time I checked after the usual imbeciles started repeating this falsehood. If you don’t exclude small cities it’s even further down the list.
Please, conservatives, stop inundating with lies and incorrect statements, this used to be a decent place to come for information related to insurance.
Jack, we are now up to 4 total deputies that did nothing. The Sheriff should be fired for incompetence and all these deputies relieved of their duties.
4 good guys had guns and they did nothing. ‘The only thing that will stop a bad man with a gun is a good guy with a gun’ doesn’t seem to be working.
Confused says- $1000 says it was “policy” to wait for SWAT. Thank the guy that developed that policy for a few deaths. They were not good guys with guns knowing kids were being killed and staying outside. I bet the shooting had stopped before they got there, which again proves someone need to be armed on site….someone with the guts to kill the killer.
none of your “thoughts” are borne out of any facts of this tragedy.
Cowards… All 4 of them. Incompetence by the sheriffs department (reports say he is an elected Dem). FBI drops the ball.
People need to be fired over this that’s for sure.
At least Trump is doing something about it.
4 good guys hiding behind concrete pillars will never stop a shooter inside. All they will be doing is loading body bags long after it is over.
Yeah, exactly – we’re on the same page here Agent! Just because a good guy has a gun does not mean they will always stop the bad guys with guns. Thanks for finally agreeing with me!!
Confused,
This string is exactly what the comment section on this site has become. A regular comment, followed by someone who just decided to talk out of their A@@, make up some things they “bet” happened, to further prove a statement that fits their opinion.
More of the same. More of the same.
@Confused: apparently, you assumed for convenience of YOUR argument that the 4 deputies are ‘good guys with guns’. For now, I’ll withhold judgement until the facts are in about their actions. Facts will eventually emerge.
I can safely assume that Nikolas is a bad guy with guns. It’s highly likely the FBI and other law enforcement agents dropped the ball on arresting Nikolas ahead of his rampage. I’d like to see the details behind that likely error in judgement.
If they really were bad guys with guns, they would’ve helped kill innocent people and would not have assisted local law enforcement
I think the Loss Experience would be great on the NRA members. They are not the ones causing the problems.
I’m sure this will put an end to all school shootings, making the NRA buy insurance somewhere else! More PC corporate nonsense. Way to go Chubb, you silly insurance people! (Next up: Chubb announces they won’t insure Russians.)
One company leaves, another company comes in, it helps the smaller companies trying to grow it’s marketplace. What happened in Florida is a tragedy, but to blame it all on guns rather than not addressing the issue head on, such as the reckless way many kids are being raised nowadays, the lack of discipline, perhaps anti-depressants and lack of a traditional household. When guns are being mentioned as the only issue, then this is really political manipulation rather than addressing the core issues. The kid could have used a number of other tools should he not have had a gun, such as his vehicle, a bomb and you name it.
You’re right! Anyone who – whether or not they are NRA followers – should pay attention to the recent address by the President of the NRA who called out Shumer along with his party and the Main Stream Medias who have profited from these shootings over the last 30 years by their callous actions to shift blame to guns when they have failed to enforce current laws requiring the registration of adjudicated and diagnosed individuals who should have and would have been prohibited from firearms purchase. Politicians who have lined their incumbent pockets with special interest funds that purchased their legislative votes.
Ummm…it was Trump and other Republicans who were persuaded by the NRA to remove the restrictions that people who have been diagnosed with a mental disorder would be unable to purchase a firearm.
When the Las Vegas shooter killed dozens a few months back, a public outcry rang out against bump stocks, but did anything get done on them? No, instead, Republicans impeded any calls for banning or restricting them.
As I recall the restriction that was put in place was to take away the rights of those who received social security benefits but needed help with their finances from possessing firearms. From where I sit that is certainly a long way from a mental disorder.
I hope you posted this prior Trump calling to ban the bump stocks. On the noon news 2/26/2018, he was also calling for tighter restrictions on the mental health/back round check issue as well as raising the min age to buy a gun.
If he was, seems he in no longer on the NRA payroll.
Talk =/= Action.
Donald Trump is almost all talk.
Reference: “I would have run in there even with no gun…”
You really think a three-time draft dodger would be running TOWARDS gunfire? give me a break. Call me when Congress votes to ban bump stocks and reinstates mental health checks when they previously voted to remove those same restrictions.
As expected, all that “talk” was just a ton of politician shine, and nothing else. The Senate and House are both moving on to discuss other bills and topics next week, leaving the gun control debate behind. So, what happens now?
Gun show loopholes?
private party sales?
mental health checks?
training and licensing?
sensible gun control?
No movement on a single item. The US will continue to have insanely high murder rates for the developed world, and everyone will just continue on until the next mass shooting happens. Which, historically should be ANY MINUTE.
Well we are beginning to see the extent that foreign interests are willing to go to disrupt not only elections but purchase public opinion media in efforts to derail our system of government and our society. Chubb’s untimely choice disenrollment of coverage for the NRA flies in the face of any sound decision that demonstrates their true convictions of alleged support of our Nations underpinnings – The Constitution of the United States. How much revenue was guaranteed by outside special interest groups with nefarious backing to purchase that decision? Insurance Groups and Underwriters are in the business of mitigating risks and hazards – NOT ENGAGING IN POLITICAL SIDE SHOWS FOR PREMIUMS.
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Actually, the Supreme court said so –
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms and was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.
The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals, while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.
State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from infringing this right, per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
Chis is mostly correct, but not 100%. The US Supreme Court has ruled for both the “militia” theory and the “individual” theory. As of a case in 2008, it seems they believe the second amendment regulates the individuals right to bear arms. See this link for a comprehensive explanation: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment
I was unclear above. The militia part is the lie by (uninformed?) Jestr.
Learn the definition of militia Sherlock.
Look up District of Columbia v. Heller – the Constitution DOES guarantee the right of individuals to keep & bear arms.
Back when the 2nd amendment was written, everyone who was physically able to, WAS the militia.
Read the whole thing, after the militia part.
“Murder Insurance?” No, it is called liability insurance to protect me against claims filed if I have to use my concealed weapon to save my life or that of a member of my family. And it also provides way beyond what my personal liability policy covers. I can see more of these companies backing away from not only the NRA, but from anything to do with legal carry clients as a way to enforce some kind of gun control by not providing the coverage’s we need.
ignorance abounds. “Guns Down America, said that last November it petitioned Chubb to stop selling what it called “murder insurance.” Self defense is not murder, but don’t let facts get in the way. I see tons of anti gun people shouting on social media that gun owners should have to have insurance in case they shoot someone, but then they tell the insurance companies that provide such insurance to stop selling it.
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There is a thing called freedom. Govt exists only to limit freedoms. Because one person every now and then uses a legal product for a bad reason doesn’t mean you punish everyone else.
Banks, govt buildings, jewelry stores and others are guarded with armed guards, locked doors, etc. The answer for people like you is to ban guns because you soil yourself thinking about putting up resistance. We should defend our children the way we defend the country–with a strong defense.
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Got no guilt cause I didn’t pull the trigger. You see it takes some one PULLING the trigger. IT TAKES SOMEONE PULLING THE TRIGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1000 babies a day dead because of “freedom of choice” What about their freedom?
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RealityBites. I love it. You say “What freakin zealot twisted alt Christian logic are we talking about here? No different than any other religious extremists, all of you.” Then you go on to say, “Don’t begin to judge me or my experience.” Then you spout off another ad hominem devoid of any logic calling people “faceless cowards.” By the way RealityBites, when you claim “logic,” or lack thereof, it is best when you use it yourself. Both your comments are devoid of argumentation and literally consist of one large ad hominem coupled with a straw man fallacy (you can look those up if you would like). What utter hypocrisy! You judgmentally insinuate that everyone supporting the second amendment is some fundamentalist nut job, then you tell people not to judge you! Priceless! That’s like punching someone in the face, getting punched back, and yelling “whatever did I do to you!”
My comments were directed to the comments as they existed on the site and were not generalized as you have stated. But please tell me how LaPierre connects gun ownership as a god given right? Seriously? C’mon man. And, yes. I own weapons, am an avid hunter and I support the 2nd amendment. I don’t own an assault rifle and have never seen the need to own one.
RealityBites, I agree that it is hard to argue that gun ownership is a “God given” right. I don’t agree with LaPierre’s comments and, like you, I also don’t have an AR-15.
Self defense is a God given right. Go away and use a pickle if you would like. Good luck and don’t call the cops because they have guns and might scare you. Of course they may just hide in the bush like the on duty officer at the school did and let you die.
Reality Bites, do your hunting rifles have the ability to hold more than 1 bullet at time or do you have a multi shot magazine that you insert into your weapon when you go hunting?
If multi shot magazine, how long does it take you to eject one round and load another then fire the weapon, I’m sure just a tad slower than a semi automatic weapon.
Lee Harvey Oswald managed to get several shots off in a matter of seconds with a single bolt action rifle……
@Reality Bites: it is a Straw Man Argument to turn the discussion from US Constitutional Rights under Am.2 to Wayne LaPierre’s comments. His comments, wrong or right, do NOT invalidate the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. Your method of debate is full of holes and easy to refute. Finally, many Dems are LAWFUL owners of guns who don’t follow the ultra-liberal talking points you espouse. Think about why they don’t.
Wayne, apparently you have not read, or worse did not understand , the Constitution. Your statement that – “Govt exists only to limit freedoms.” is surely a sophomoric statement far from any form of truth when you are speaking of the Constitution of these United States. In fact the Government is only allowed to function with the express consent of US the citizens- while the first ten amendments known and our Bills of Rights protects of from any such overreach from government attempt to operate outside the confines of the Constitution. If the Government is not functioning in your particular area in which you reside then you have only one person to blame and that is you for not paying attention to who you elect and what they are doing. Hold them responsible or throw the bumbs out.
Oh no, then why do I have to take my shoes off every time I go through the TSA line?
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are natural rights, how can you say that humans do not have the right to these? What gives you the right to determine how someone protects themselves? Animals have claws, teeth, speed, and strength at their disposal; while humans have intelligence at ours, and we have used that intelligence to create weapons since the beginning of time.
Realitybites- good name for ya, defend yourself with a pickle then if you don’t believe in the right to self defense. Taking my right to it and that of women that may have to use it in cases of rape etc makes me think you hate women. Don’t want one, don’t buy it. And I always love the Christian reference from you sorts. Go pick on a muslim why don’t ya? Oh that’s right, they will car bomb you or use an airplane.
Well done sir, well done. Twist, spin and deflect. The “muslim” card? Seriously?! Your comments are not germane to the topic. My son defended your freedom to hate, and so be it.
My families military history goes back to kicking the British out of SC. Bite me.
Slow golf clap.
So which side did your family fight on in the civil war?
Hmmmm- I didn’t own any slaves and you didn’t pick any cotton.
Jack, saw a great NRA commercial last year. This beautiful young woman came home and was minding her business and a thug outside started banging on her door. She went and got her Glock out of her safe and was waiting for him to break in. When he did, she had that Glock trained on him. He immediately fainted when he realized she meant to blow him away. Well, the Police that took some time eventually hauled him away after they woke him up.
Are you on here as an agent? If so then are you going to put aside you views on guns (AR, or otherwise) long enough to provide your clients with the coverage they need if they own a weapon and have a CCW? That is really the point of my response to the article.
I would like to see the list of companies that don’t need the business of the millions of NRA members, so that this member can avoid upsetting the snowflakes companies.
650 people murdered in Chicago 2017. Where’s the CNN special, where’s the children in the streets crying for them, where’s any liberal new network on it? You guessed it.
Get your self def insurance at USCCA.
Gotta run, my neighbor just called and said my AR-15 was out walking the dog again.
idiot
Up yours.
Cleaning my AR-15 right now, I’ll get to the other 2 later.
Jack, I like you analogy. I would expand that to question why Delta, Chubb, and Best Western continue to offer their services in Chicago?
Alcohol Kills ~98,000 per year.
There is no right to Alcohol.
Outlaw Alcohol!!!
America was founded, before its constitution or amendments, on the human right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Children in schools nationwide are threatened almost daily as they go about those rights. And that’s wrong. Their right to live, to be free to learn, and to grow up and continue their pursuit of happiness trumps any right to “bear arms” as a single group’s definition of liberty. Yes, too many children today are unhappy, angry, disturbed, under-parented and under-treated. Yes, most gun owners are sportsmen, enthusiasts and deeply law-abiding. But we have to draw a line about the type of weapons available, define a consistent and national standard for purchase, demand liability for that weapon by its owner until a LEGAL transfer is made or a theft is documented and legally addressed if owner fault is shown, and we must halt the availability of tools to modify weapons to military functions. In a town full of hunters and gun enthusiasts, I’m sure most guns are very safely locked and the children in those homes are well lectured and monitored. But I am still scared for those kids and mine because the power of guns is easily glorified, manipulated and used — as we’ve seen. Again. And Again. And Again and again. It has to stop. Something has to give.
I can picture Andrew reading these comments and having to pop a couple of Advil before deleting 95% of them…
Have a great weekend, everyone!
You nailed it!!!
Jack, one of the worst ideas of the leftist Progressives was the creation of “Gun Free Zones”. That is an open invitation for thugs to do shootings because the law abiding citizens cannot protect themselves.
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Jestr says –
[“Read the second amendment carefully and completely, where’s the right for individuals other than as a militia to have guns? You guys always argue about the “right” to individually own guns…it says nothing about that.”]
Actually, the Supreme Court says so –
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms and was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.
The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals, while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.
State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from infringing this right, per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
Just me: firstly I’d have never bought Chubb stock had I known of their affiliation.
Gun don’t kill people- people kill people: guns just make it so easy.
Disgraceful. I for one will never place any business with Chubb. It is unfortunate Chubb does not feel care as much about our Constitution and rights as a free people as the Founding Fathers did when they wrote the Second Amendment.
Not sure how the NRA is responsible for any wacko using a gun. Personal accountability is out the door anymore. Congress has the power to tighten gun laws they just won’t do it.
Maybe we should do it like Japan, No guns except hunting rifles and no guns for cops. Cops use batons and their Ninja skills to subdue criminals. Also in Japan shot a gun in public, 3-5 yrs, If you did not have it registered 15yrs, Kill someone, death penalty. In US, lets blame society and figure out why the individual had a hard life and feel sorry for them because they are a victim too.
Amazing, the AR-15 has been available for civilian sale since the mid 60s, yet only in the last 20 years have we had all of these mass shooters. Drugging the kids so they won’t be a handful for the teachers, taking away recess, banning many contact sports like dodge ball, feminization of boys, suspending and calling the policy because a kid brings a 1″ tall plastic army man with a “gun”
When we lived in the UK, we had to go through a criminal background check, a mental health check, keep the guns in a locked cabinet bolted to the ground and the ammunition stored a certain distance away locked up and the police did make sure that we kept those guns locked up. Had we misused them, committed any type of crime or had been found at any time to be mentally unfit, they would have been removed immediately. Upon returning to the US, we didn’t have to do anything however we proceeded with keeping the guns locked in a cabinet etc. It should be further noted we never ever considered having an AR 15 and never would. In closing, since we consider the NRA to be nothing but a far right political organization with their own perverse agenda, we never became members. Very happy to see reasonable people speaking out against them with many members giving up their membership.
Well, in the state of CT I had to got through all sorts of hoops and hurdles to legally possess a pistol. An all-day gun class with notarized certificate of completion to be brought to the town PD to then complete two applications for a temporary pistol permit, one local, one state. The local required three (3) character references. The state required electronic fingerprints to file with the NICS and to do the instant background check that took six weeks. I passed, and a temporary permit good for sixty (60) days was sent to the local PD, which I then retrieved. Once I had possession I had to take it and myself to the state police barracks where they issue permits and show up in person, stand in line and have my photo taken and permit issued. Mind you, for each part of the sequence in this chain of events, I was writing checks, none less then $100 and that was before I ever purchased a gun or ammo. As for the UK, I am sick of listening to the holier than thou nonsense. The UK violent crime statistics far outpace those of the USA, and since guns are difficult to get one’s hands on, there is an epidemic of knifings in the UK, so much so that NHS along with localities have campaign for folks to hand in their knives, and have depositories on streets for folks to toss those knives into. (I’m suspecting the only knives surrendered are those which had already been used during the commission of a crime.) Speaking of knives, according to the FBI Table 8, five-times as many intentional homicides are as a result of knives than are from rifles – that’s ALL rifles, not just that menacing-looking black one. Finally, the NRA is a membership group that promotes safe gun handling. The NICS was invented by the NRA. The problem with background checks isn’t the need for more, it’s the need for the states to actually report felons and mentally adjudicated people to the Prohibited Persons List. 38 states fail to report 20% or more prohibited persons each year to the National Instant Check System, which is why too many folks fall through the cracks. In 2010 alone 80,000 prohibited persons actually tried to get permits – a felony. Of those 80,000 only 44 of them were prosecuted. Boy, that sure sounds like the NRA caused those failures. Blaming the NRA for gun deaths is akin to blaming AAA for automobile deaths,
Chubb’s decision surprises me. How many claims did they have to defend? It is rare for an IRA member to be involved in a gun crime. One law enforcement officer wrote he had handled over 5000 cases, none involving an NRA member. I would welcome them as customers. No. I do not own a gun. WGR
The personal lines property/casualty insurers are not guilt free. If a risk presents a 49cc moped or a jon boat with a 27.5hp outboard motor, the insurers all hide behind stacks of exclusions. These same insurers typically offer $100K Section 2 liability coverage and $2500 physical damage coveragefor firearms risks at no extra cost. They not only refuse to investigate the mental suitability of gun owning risks, there isn’t even a question on the application as to how many AR-15 murder rifles an applicant has scattered around the house. Underwriting?
Boondoggle,
Could it possibly be that companies are willing to offer the limits you mention due to the fact that historically the claims presented due to owned firearms under a personal lines policy have been insignificant from a liability perspective. I hope you understand why that is, it is due to the fact that in almost all shootings the act of pulling the trigger is an “intentional” one and therefor excluded from coverage provided by section 2. That is precisely why NRA and other pro gun organizations offer group coverage for liability related to self defense etc. as the standard unendorsed personal lines policy is not intended to respond in the vast majority of the cases.
A topic as polarizing as this almost always disappoints me with the simplistic responses. There is plenty of blame to go around and there is no simple solution. Again, the responsibility goes back to our politicians. If we took the time, and could get access to all of the deliberation that has taken place I bet all sides of the argument have some great ideas, but neither party wants to let the other have a “win” in public opinion because it will cost them votes! If you listen to NRA they have offered a number of solutions relating to back ground checks, and national list of criminal and mentally affected individuals. And, I am sure that most agree someone under the age of 21 should not be able to purchase a semi automatic rifle that allows for large magazine use. And, we should have much stronger security at all of our schools.
Sorry, I guess I missed the point of the topic. Companies have the freedom to support or protest any group that they feel violates their beliefs or their customers beliefs. Then we all can choose how to use that company, if at all.
Unless they are a Christian wedding cake bakery……
Surely, there’s no problem with guns as such (although there’s little legitimacy for owning automatics). The problem in the US has come about as a result of extremely poor (in some cases, non existent) vetting of those wishing to own and carry guns. How this is to be corrected is difficult. There are now so many weapons in circulation, and many of those are in the hands of criminals, it’s almost impossible to retroactively control/police.
Switzerland requires it’s citizens to be armed (unless the authorities deem you to be unfit to own a gun or you register as a conscientious objector). Whilst one can’t say that there have not been some shootings, they have been extremely rare and by no means more prevalent than in countries that have very restrictive gun laws.
It is a problem that doesn’t have an easy answer. However, making it less socially acceptable to be carrying weapons, other than at legitimate times such as whilst hunting and at shooting ranges, might help to reduce the general unquestioning acceptance that a large number of US citizens carry firearms as a matter course.
This is a complex subject that has become highly emotional and extremely political. These are my points:
Long rifles murder very few, about a 1/6th compared to knives. However the mass shooting impact at schools and churches is horrific and effective by the killer. I believe most purchasers of this weapon buy it because of one of the intents of the second amendment to allow citizens the right to bear arms against a government that has gone against and threatens their liberty. This might be scary to some, but I believe it to be true, whether it is admitted or not. This is why there would be so much resistance to limiting or confiscating these weapons, it would be proving their point that it is the first step by government to limit citizens to protect themselves from a government gone bad. The silent majority believes this but won’t admit it publicly for fear of the gun limiting segment shaming. The greater overwhelming threat is handguns and this is viewed as the weapon of choice for home protection, so no chance for limiting this weapon.
I see much stronger and coordinated tightening of background checks, increased scrutiny of mental health issues and increasing the age to purchase AR 15 type of weapons as a first and probably last step as a compromise. Trump will show he is compassionate and the left will show that lobbying and pressure finally worked. However, none of these will prevent another attempt….only hardening of the target , especially schools , by competent and brave security personnel(certainly not the ones at SD, including the chief) passed by state legislatures with federal government financial support through the Dept. of Education with training programs and best practices security support to protect our kids. We protect our sporting events better than our kids?
I agree with nearly everything you said. Closing the gun show loophole is long overdue and would be a huge first step. If anyone get stopped trying to purchase a gun at a store, they can immediately go on the facebook and find a seller – no problem – thus avoiding the background check system. The NRA strongly opposes this on the grounds law abiding gun owners should be able to sell/trade their weapons whenever they want, despite the fact they know many felons use this avenue to acquire guns.
The ability to prevent mentally ill persons from getting a gun is a very complex problem as it involves privacy issues. Besides, mental health issues are not always present; they can come and go, like many other illnesses. There are no quick fixes here but better notification systems would help.
Hardening schools will help some but the costs would ENORMOUS and that would only direct the shooters to other soft targets such as shopping malls, concerts and movie theaters. Soft targets will always abound in a free society.
The problem is we have WAY too many guns in society.
The so-called gun show “loophole” is a fallacy.
Felons buy most of their guns out of a car trunk and have no intention of ever registering.
I’m here for the comments which are always golden. Proud NRA member….and I don’t even own a gun.
Every time politicians come after the peoples’ right to keep and bear arms, more folks join the NRA and gun permit demand spikes.
paul, already seen that NRA memberships are spiking.
Meanwhile, here in Wi, Walker is looking to are school personnel. Teacher / Administrator / Sanitation engineer / Food service worker, don’t matter. The list of former military personnel as well as retired law enforcement is getting long to hold security guard positions. I know a certain school buss driver is locked & loaded. Kids complain about him being grumpy, but they are protected.
Seems people in this neck of the woods want this. Seems they are not waiting on DC.
They are also pushing to put an inside lock on doors. Shots fired, lock the dead bolt. Sit and wait for the Cavalry..
Didn’t Morgan Freeman already try locking school doors around 1987-1989 at the Eastside High School in Paterson, New Jersey? I don’t think that ended too well.
Rose, I dont recall that. Care to elaborate? Not familiar with what you speak of.
It’s from a movie :P
C-t-B was right – I was referencing Lean On Me, a movie based (loosely) on a true story.
Rosenblatt, you are living in an alternate reality.
FFA, I have a close friend who just retired from Assistant Police Chief here. I asked him what he would have done in the same situation. He said he had 14 in the clip and 1 in the chamber and would have made Swiss Cheese out of that kid. Think it might have saved a lot of young lives in the process.
My nephew served in Afghanistan now doing (armed) security in the ship yards is ready to go. Just one that I know is more then ready willing and able. He’s got some pretty harsh things to say about the call to dis arm America.
Putting a gun in the hand of someone not willing to use it is useless. I don’t think any less of the school personnel that don’t want to do it. Im sure there are ready willing and able people up for the task. They need to stop talking Teachers all the time. All that will happen is the teacher ends up with a target on them.
Guns are a state issue first. Licensing comes from the state. That is why the US congress needs to stop with the showboating and promenading, and work on things under their direct jurisdiction, like that mess that is Obamacare.
FFA, sounds to me like your governor is doing the right thing. Doubt that there will be any cowards in that line up. Protect the kids and be a hero if anyone tries anything.
Emma and I are calling BS on Chubb’s assertion that they decided to end the program 3 months ago. They certainly made no such announcement. It is pretty clear that the parkland shooting forced their hand and rightly so.
Insurance has a role to play in responsible gun ownership. For example all gun owners should be required to purchase an insurance policy. Rates should be derived from a study of the societal cost of gun violence. These costs are real and a lot higher than most would expect. Consider the building where all those Parkland students were gunned down. There is already talk of tearing it down and rebuilding (they did same at sandy hook). Is it fair that the citizens of Parkland should have to pay for a new school; have they not been made to suffer enough already?
What Chubb and Lockton were doing with NRA Carry Guard was irresponsible from the start. Such a program encouraged concealed carry and normalized the idea that we all need guns whenever we leave our front door. Insurance should be used to incentivize good behavior — not encourage reckless actions.
Just my 2 cents. Feel free to lambaste me. yes, I am one of those “idiots” who does not like guns. I am a family man and would NEVER have a gun in my home. In my 56 years of living I have never been in a situation where I thought, “Daman, I wish I had a gun on me at this moment.” I have, however, been in lots of messed-up situations where I was glad no one had a gun on them. Guns do not make society safer. I wish the second Amendment never existed.
Self def insurance did not encourage reckless actions- it filled the gap where insurance carriers failed to cover people defending themselves and others. 99% of people conceal carry before they buy the insurance, I did.
If guns don’t make it safer, why do policy carry them?
You blaming them for writing that type of insurance is like blaming Progressive for deaths by DUI. You got the idiot part right.
What happens when there is no insurance to cover accidental or self def shootings?
Answer- liberals will cry about about not having deep pockets to sue. Guns are not going away liberals so when the above occurs, remember you pulled the trigger on killing big settlements.
Jack,
You do not see the other possibilities for this. I believe this move is from multiple companies for the NRA to promote social change for increased gun regulations. Who knows if the US imposes more restrictions on how to get a gun (background checks) and what guns a civilian can own (no fully auto hopefully) then the companies may join again due to the perceived lowered risk of who has a gun. I am not saying this will happen, but do not assume it will go away. Also no one is saying guns are going away, but currently there are those who should not have these that do. If you are a law abiding citizen who can pass the checks then you should not worry about this. Again I am saying this about the companies promoting change.
1. There hasn’t been a “fully auto” used in a mass killing.
2.You are taking away insurance from people responsible enough to buy it.
3. There will never be gun confiscation in the US, therefore there will always be people that “should not” have them. Then I don’t trust the government to say who should have them given #4.
4. We have millions of illegal aliens in sanctuary cities so “law abiding citizen” is a misnomer when your own government can’t define illegal.
5. Criminals don’t plan on going thru a background check.
I could go on and on but have realized in the past it’s a waste of time with liberals.
Please do not say it is not worth the time. You are the one who is using a very illogical point of view to do this. Why should we have murder laws if people will still kill? Why have laws about who can drive when people still drive without a license and insurance? I can also go on and on about that. The illegal immigrant part is also pointless to bring up. They are less likely to commit a crime than a US citizen (backed up by statistics). Most of these people are also overstaying visas and such so it is very hard to regulate. Still regulation is better than having it not regulated. While yes fully automatic weapons have only been used in 3 crimes since 1934, I do not believe a civilian needs to own a weapon of that kind. If you want to own things of a lesser degree you should but with the proper training. If you can pass these why would you care? The only logical reason is that you could not and would be worried about that. There are a lot of legal ways to get around these things today (gun shows).
“gun show” – so you have bought a gun at a gun show without completing the required paperwork to do so? Exactly how many guns have you bought in your life ? That’s what I thought. Speaking from ignorance or simply spewing libtarded unfacts again.
I have a concealed weapons permit. I passed those checks and balances in the system. I am the guy with the gun on his hip every day that regardless of color, religion, etc. will step in to protect life and property of mine and others.
I laugh at liberals calling Trump Hitler one minute and demanding he take our guns the next minute. You guys are the reason a plastic bag has instructions not to put it over your head.
I have bought a handgun and a hunting rifle in my lifetime and I did get training to handle these. Do not assume that because I support increased measures I am a spewing “libtarded” facts. That is just immature to reduce the other side to a variation of a serious mental illness. Should I do that to you since you have such a problem with challenging your ideas? No, please have respect for the other side that just want to see increased measures put in place to reduce (not eliminate) the amount of people who should not have this.
Also just to help “helpingout”, liberals have a higher education on average, so your plastic bags part is just a dig at the other side to enhance your point.
Just checking back with liberals today to see how you like the Maryland school shooting outcome?