Republican Farm Bill Sows Bipartisan Discontent

By | May 15, 2018

  • May 15, 2018 at 4:25 pm
    Agent says:
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    • May 15, 2018 at 4:49 pm
      confused says:
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      let me guess – republicans who are against this bill aren’t actually republicans. they are just RINO’s right?

      • May 15, 2018 at 4:59 pm
        Cut the Bias says:
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        Soon enough, the only non-RINOs in the party left will be the Neo Nazi who ran for legislature in Illinois, the Holocaust denier in California running for congress, or the guy in Georgia driving around a deportation bus rounding up “murderers, rapists, criminals, etc.”

        Enjoy your party, non-RINOs. Truly the shining examples of Christianity, morality, and love-thy-neighbor out there…

        • May 15, 2018 at 5:00 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Spot on, Cut!

          I’m not saying Tramp is the anti-Christ but I am saying Christ is the anti-Tramp.

        • May 17, 2018 at 2:59 pm
          bob says:
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          You’ve got no real evidence for this being a major problem.

          So you’ve got three. Good for you. I’ll start listing democrats and flaws there.

          They outrank the “Nazis” 100 to 1. Do you know why? The amount of “Nazis” running is next to zero on the right at any point in time and in your list 2 out of more than 200. 1%, and then you say soon it will be all that’s left. How dare you link that to the right. It is not ok. It makes you a brat and an idiot.

        • May 17, 2018 at 3:02 pm
          bob says:
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          More to the point here: They won’t win their elections.

          Likely people voting for them are just throwing their votes at anyone they think can win in those districts.

          It is not indicative of a Nazi movement. I do not see violent Nazi protests to any degree similar to ANTIFA.

          But, you know, we just need to beware the radical right.

          I want to hear you say it. If you’re going to say it about the right, you need to condemn ANFITA, and the presence of the authoritarian left in colleges. There is no racist right on the college board or as a dean, that is the difference cut the bias. Just because you don’t like Agent doesn’t mean you get to tease him and call his party a bunch of Nazis. You brat.

          • May 17, 2018 at 3:16 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            You know what it means when someone resorts to name-calling, right?

            But here you are name-calling like a playground bully who covers for problems at home with an aggressive tone, and equating democrats to Nazis.

            Your same rhetoric is what nearly drove the fine people of Alabama to vote a pedophile, racist, bigot into the office of Senate, only being defeated by the efforts of decent black men and women in the state (thank goodness for them for not compromising on their morals!)

            I don’t see anyone on the left in America running for office espousing hate, demeaning people different from themselves, or pushing outright false history.

            But, go ahead and equate Democrats to Nazis. That makes a lot of sense. You brat.

          • May 17, 2018 at 3:35 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            Oh, and:

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/04/23/multiple-gop-candidates-are-now-mimicking-trumps-authoritarianism/

            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hate-harassment-incidents-spike-since-donald-trump-election/

            But all this authoritative, fascist rhetoric and hate crime increase must be coming from those pesky Democrats, right? Righhhhhttttt…

            The party of Reagan resembles nothing of Ronald Reagan except his disdain for taxes against all logic. Go watch the GOP debate between Bush and Reagan in 1980, or the Presidential debate in 1992 between Bush and Clinton and see how much the party has changed to espouse extremist views on several items.

          • May 18, 2018 at 12:28 am
            Cut the Bias says:
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            And don’t forget total scientific illiteracy/lunacy:

            https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/17/republican-congressman-mo-brooks-sea-level-rise-rocks

            But, no, you are right, the Republicans running for office or those who are currently in office or leadership who are racist, bigoted, stupid, or sellout regular Americans for special interests (Ajit Pai, Scott Pruitt, John Bolton, Donald Trump, Devin Nunes, etc x 1,000,000) are the rare lone wolves…It’s those pesky democrats we need to keep out of office…

    • May 15, 2018 at 4:59 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Yes, and urine analysis for all CEOs who are taking corporate handouts!

    • May 15, 2018 at 5:04 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Agent,
      Sounds just like what Jesus would do. Remember The Feeding of the 5,000? Yeah, I think Jesus told the crowd, “Prove to me you have a job and I’ll give you some fish and wine.”

      • May 16, 2018 at 1:38 pm
        CCC says:
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        @Captain Planet: Good point. That said, regarding Christianity, there is a BIG difference between helping those less fortunate out of your own free will, and having Big Government forcing you to “donate” in the name of helping others…

        • May 16, 2018 at 5:12 pm
          Cut the Bias says:
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          I agree with the base of what you are saying, but how poorly does it reflect on people when they say things like, “I don’t want my money going to people who don’t work!”

          Look up the real reason Sodom and Gomorrah got destroyed, it is a real eye opener. People always saying lascivious sins, but in reality Jeremiah says it loud and clear that it was because the citizens of those cities rejected helping the poor, weak, and elderly.

          I vote Christian values because I live them, and I consistently vote for increased welfare, social welfare reform, and other safety nets. It is the right thing to do to help our fellow man out.

          • May 16, 2018 at 6:34 pm
            CCC says:
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            @Cut the Bias: Agree, though I thought that was Ezekiel? Hard to care for the poor and needy when you can’t even find 10 righteous people in the whole city. Fornication and lust for strange flesh may have also had something to do with the destruction.

            I endeavor to live by Christian values, but fall short often. Due to the government’s reputation for waste, I prefer to give my time and money directly to those in need, rather then feed the bureaucracy.

            That said, I have hard working family members who through no fault of their own had to rely on benefits such as SNAP. I am glad there is a safety net in place. I believe the right-leaning legislators are just trying to find ways to reduce abuse of these program(s).

          • May 17, 2018 at 12:07 am
            Cut the Bias says:
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            I would prefer to donate to local charities, as well, but so many of those are effectively scam rackets, unfortunately. So many supposed charities only give the bare minimum of donations back to a certain cause. That number? 5%!!

            Some charities take in millions of dollars and then spend thousands on worthless crap in the name of charity. Not to single out our scammer-in-chief, but look at the Trump Organization “Charitable” Foundation. It’s donations ended up being purchases of football memorabilia, portraits of Donald Trump, and other shenanigans. People were donating money to the charity thinking that it would go to a good place, and it went nowhere.

            Oftentimes, it ends up a funnel for the 1% to get a tax break and nothing else. :(

            On the other hand, while there are many govt programs that are hilariously wasteful, programs like Medicaid, SNAP, Medicare, and others are run very efficiently and with overall low operating costs. Many people want to say, “let the free market handle these things, get the government out of health care and taking care of the poor” but look at operating expenses of any similar entity and you will see that money spent on programs for the poor is often derived by squeezing blood from a stone. They are underfunded, understaffed, and somehow still make it work for the millions on these programs.

            My opinion: don’t step on people who are already broken and beaten down so badly they are asking for help. Instead, open the palm not to smack them down but to reach out to offer assistance. Food, shelter, clothing, etc. Not extravagances, by humanity all the same.

            Imagine if we spent even 1/10th the amount we blow playing world police on taking care of our people…Poverty? Eradicated. Crumbling Infrastructures? Completely fixed. Electrical Grids? Modernized to the 21st century, not the 1950s as it is in many cities around the country.

            Instead, let’s keep spending hundreds of billions of dollars more than the next closest country because of reasons. and let’s keep cutting funding to things that will actually protect more Americans and funnel more of it into Military spending…really smart.

          • May 17, 2018 at 5:25 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            If voting for increased welfare and other safety nets is the right thing to do, why do Socialist states – with enormous safety nets – always fail to produce good lives for the majority?

            Your assumption that the tax money we give the government is well spent is belied by facts, tons of them.

            Black Americans have received more and more government help over the past 60 years and what have been the results?

            LBJ said his Great Society expansion of welfare programs would solve black poverty in one generation. So much for that idea.

            Medicare fraud is estimated to be about 10% of the dollars spent. Why? Because the government has little incentive to do anything about it. Private health insurer fraud is estimated to be about 1%.

            And yet all we ever hear about is the horrible profits made by private health insurers.

            Venezuela was the richest country in South America. Socialism made Venezuela a country full of starving people – literally.

            And the USA? We are bankrupt, if you tally it all up.

            So much for the “compassion” of your Christian values as funneled through government.

          • May 18, 2018 at 3:44 am
            Cut the Bias says:
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            Craig Cornell, how come every time you talk about black Americans, I cringe a little bit? So weird…

            Anyway, here are your alternative facts disputed with actual facts:

            “Black Americans have received more and more government help over the past 60 years and what have been the results?”

            https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2012/2012026/tables/table_32.asp

            Percentage of black americans receiving government assistance in 2009 was at nearly its lowest amount in 30 years…

            https://www.acf.hhs.gov/ofa/resource/character/fy2010/fy2010-chap10-ys-final

            “Table A: Trend in TANF Families by Race/Ethnicity
            FY 2000 – FY 2010”

            Black down to 31.9%
            How about whites? Well, they were at 31.8% WOW!! such a huge difference! .1%!

            Blacks receiving aid plummeted over either a 25 or 10 year period, depending on how you want to look at the graphs, but still trail white counterparts in earnings and wealth. I wonder why that is…

            No way it could be institutionalized racism and bigotry holding black people down, nah! It couldn’t be law enforcement policies that mete out harsher penalties and sentences to blacks than whites for the same crimes. It can’t be the redlining of neighborhoods and apartment complexes (even ones owned by your president), forcing black families into slums and dangerous neighborhoods. Nah, none of that!

            It’s gotta be that they traditionally receive a little more govt. help…I’m not quite sure I buy your analysis. Especially since it was published in your #1 best seller “Tales from my A$$” by Craig “I’m not a black man, but I play one on the internet” Cornell.

            “LBJ said his Great Society expansion of welfare programs would solve black poverty in one generation. So much for that idea.”

            I am having trouble finding any such allusion to this claim by LBJ or anyone in his cabinet at the time. By all means, please post your source on this. “Tales from my A$$ with a Vengeance” is not a valid source, by the way.

            “Medicare fraud is estimated to be about 10% of the dollars spent. Why? Because the government has little incentive to do anything about it. Private health insurer fraud is estimated to be about 1%.”

            https://www.economist.com/united-states/2014/05/31/the-272-billion-swindle

            Once again, you are making numbers. Do the math, its in this article from the Economist, (whom you should trust, as it is one of the few remaining political publications out there that consistently provides proper sourcing and bases its articles in fact and science) Total Medicare and Medicaid spending was $1.015 Trillion. Total estimated fraud (and the measures and policies in place to fight fraud) are estimated at $98 billion. Less than 10%.

            Total healthcare spending overall (including private carriers) is $2.7 trillion. Total healthcare fraud estimated is $272 Billion. Hmmmm, so we take out Medicare and Medicaid spending from the total, (2.7T – 1.015T) and get $1.585 Trillion. Then, you subtract 98 Billion in Medicare fraud from the $272 billion overall fraud, and get 174 Billion. So $174 billion in fraud amongst non-medicare and non-medicaid providers, from $1.585 Trillion in costs. That looks like…more than 10% for the private providers…How weird! It’s almost like those numbers were pulled from your runaway smash hit in Spanish, “Historias Que Proviene de mi Tracero” by Craig “I don’t hate people who speak Spanish as a first language, I just vote people into office that do” Cornell.

            “And yet all we ever hear about is the horrible profits made by private health insurers.”

            Private insurers profit when they deny claims. Every time they say, “No, you don’t deserve a transplant, or another treatment, or this life-saving or life-improving operation or that, they make money. These greedy monsters are loyal first to their pocketbooks, then to their shareholders, and finally to their policy-holders, who fight for the scraps. Humana’s CEO made almost $20mm in 2016, Aetna’s made almost $19mm, and UnitedHealthGroup’s made almost $18mm. Would hearing about a claim being denied make you mad while these people make obscene amounts of money? How can a first world country be okay with letting people suffer and die because they can’t afford treatments while other countries seem to get it right? Why do over a million Americans go abroad for operations and treatments just so we can pay the C-level people at these healthcare companies tens of millions of dollars!?!

            “Venezuela was the richest country in South America. Socialism made Venezuela a country full of starving people – literally.”

            There’s authoritarian Socialism, and there’s social democracy. Once the bottom fell out on oil, and once countries made pacts to stop buying oil and other products from Venezuela, their economy was gutted. To make matters worse, an authoritarian populist (stop me if you’ve heard this one), promised the moon, and instead tried to control every aspect of life. I swear morons try to equate all of socialism to the failures of “socialist” states run by evil dictators. Nobody wants SOCIALISM in America, but they do want social policies like what has been successfully run in Germany, France, The United Kingdom, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Canada, and so on and so forth. The countries with the happiest citizens across the world ALL come from social democracies, bar none. People suffer less, have access to more and better healthcare, study in better schools, drive on better roads, use faster more stable internet, plug into a more modern power grid, and live longer lives with more time for leisure. Most Americans want social democracy policies in America like free healthcare, guaranteed maternity leave, mandatory paid time off, shorter work-weeks, free higher education, and so on, but they keep voting in people pass laws that do the opposite, leaving us in the 20th century, while the rest of the world moves on from America.

            “And the USA? We are bankrupt, if you tally it all up.”

            Uhhh, no. The country’s budget and debt system does not work like a family’s checking account, no matter how many times politicians and talking heads want you to believe that. America is far from bankrupt. We just choose to bring in far less tax revenue than we need and instead choose to borrow the difference and refuse to cut wasteful spending (mostly military, but there are other things like foreign aid to countries that don’t need it). Some day, a fiscal democrat will once again balance the budget and begin to erase the debt, but it will obviously take some time and require a long stay in control of the presidency and congress.

            “So much for the “compassion” of your Christian values as funneled through government.”

            You what now? You just made up a bunch of stuff, provided no evidence for your “facts” and then smugly patted yourself on the back. You should run for office.

          • May 18, 2018 at 8:10 am
            Rosenblatt says:
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            I now have a non-s3xual man crush on you Cut the Bias. Your reply made me all giddly, like a little girl from the 60s attending her first Beatles concert. Excellent post.

          • May 18, 2018 at 9:00 am
            sal says:
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            WOW!!! COMMENT OF THE YEAR FROM CUT THE BIAS!

            I’m curious as to Craig’s response. I’d also like Agent and Polar to weigh in, though personally won’t hold my breath that any of them will..

          • May 18, 2018 at 9:18 am
            Cut the Bias says:
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            LOL. I was kind of ticked off when I wrote that, and I am surprised that IJ left it up. Hopefully it sticks around. :P

        • May 17, 2018 at 12:05 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          I hear you, CCC. Though, we all choose to live in this society and many of these people wouldn’t get the help they need solely by depending on people such as yourself. I commend you for your charity! It probably goes without saying, not everyone wins the Lucky Sperm Lottery. We all know, sometimes circumstances outweigh opportunity by a long shot. There simply aren’t enough jobs for everyone unless we are going to turn to the government to be the employer of last resort. That’s a whole different debate, though. Most of those on this program who are able are actively looking for work. I don’t know anyone who aspires to be on food stamps.

  • May 16, 2018 at 1:49 pm
    FFA says:
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    What is wrong with a work requirement for food stamp receivers? If they are disabled and unable to work, that a whole different story. But these able bodies that can work, they need to get off the tax payer dime.

    • May 17, 2018 at 9:06 am
      Ron says:
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      Agreed!!

  • May 18, 2018 at 11:41 am
    Craig Cornell says:
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    Cut the Bias: man, you are one blabby dude. Hard to even read all that nonsense.

    Typical liberal, re-naming “socialism” and thinking it sounds better as “social democracy”.
    Hey, New Coke!

    If you truly knew anything about Scandanivia, you could tell me when they lowered taxes and why. You could tell me how many of their native population is functionally illiterate compared to the USA. You could tell me why Norway is the Saudi Arabia of the North, and why any consideration of social policy should exclude Norway as an outlier.

    You could also tell me when Sweden mandated private health care options and why.

    In other words, you could be honest about what happened in Venezuela. Oil Prices! Well then, why isn’t every oil country like Mexico/Saudi Arabia, etc. full of starving people now?

    What a fool. Jesus never said to help the poor by giving money to the government. He said give your own money.

    And yes, cringe away about someone talking about black people. I have lots of black friends and you know what they have in common? They think liberals are fools and Dems. have sold out blacks.

    • May 18, 2018 at 3:33 pm
      Cut the Bias says:
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      I really shouldn’t take the bait on this one, but I have too much fun answering your citations of “Tales from my A$$”.

      “Typical liberal, re-naming “socialism” and thinking it sounds better as “social democracy”.
      Hey, New Coke!”

      These are literally two separate things. If you don’t understand the difference between Socialism and Social Democracy, then we are unable to continue this discussion. Stop right here. It is only going to get harder to read from here, which you have admittedly already had problems with. Weird how the other people on this board who read through my detailed, sourced comment didn’t have trouble following along…

      “If you truly knew anything about Scandinavia, you could tell me when they lowered taxes and why. You could tell me how many of their native population is functionally illiterate compared to the USA. You could tell me why Norway is the Saudi Arabia of the North, and why any consideration of social policy should exclude Norway as an outlier.”

      https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-highest-literacy-rates-in-the-world.html

      Finland and Norway both at 100% literacy, highest in the world. Sweden at 99%. Not even sure why you would flail to pivot to literacy rates anyway? Are you trying to equate social democracy to literacy? Seems to be doing okay there. Why not compare red states versus blue states? South of the Mason-Dixon line versus North? Trump states versus Hillary states? Are you trying to contend that the US literacy rate is better than these countries? You realize that there are certain states, which I won’t name, wherein 15% of adults can’t read at all, and almost a third can’t read above a 1st grade level?

      Per your Sweden tax rate question: https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/personal-income-tax-rate
      61.85%, the highest in at least 23 years.

      https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/corporate-tax-rate
      22%, the lowest its been in at least 37 years.

      I presume you were trying to make a point about corporate taxes needing to be lower than the USA’s former way-too-high rate of 39%, but nobody is arguing that. It should be much higher on individuals, though, especially those with income in the highest quintile. 20% corporate tax rate for America would be perfect…if they actually paid that rate. Go look at the top 100 corporations in America and see how many actually paid any corporate taxes. It is ridiculous that some companies made BILLIONS in profit and paid ZERO in taxes.

      Singling out Norway because it is an oil state is weird, too. Since Sweden and Finland are also doing incredibly well without a drop of oil to speak of. I don’t know why you think that Norway should be excluded from social policy because they produce oil. We produce 6 times as much oil as them. Should we excluded ourselves from this discussion because we produce so much oil (not to mention natural gas and so many other natural resources…)

      “You could also tell me when Sweden mandated private health care options and why.”

      Sweden mandated private health care options…and still guarantees every citizen free and universal health care. America could do the same, but it would have to follow the same model as Sweden, which you obviously don’t understand.

      https://sweden.se/society/health-care-in-sweden/

      In Sweden, local taxes are collected and used to pay the vast majority, if not all, of medical expenses whenever needed. Local taxes are controlled by city councils, who can contract with private insurers if they asses that they can better serve their local residents than the national service. Either way, the private insurer MUST GUARANTEE CARE TO EVERYONE.

      “In other words, you could be honest about what happened in Venezuela. Oil Prices! Well then, why isn’t every oil country like Mexico/Saudi Arabia, etc. full of starving people now?”

      Gather ’round folks, let me tell you a tale of Venezeulan Crude. It takes a little over $20 to produce a barrel of oil in Venezuela by the state-run monopoly. Did you see what happened to crude prices worldwide in 2015 and 2016? When the ONLY major export an economy has produces little to no profit, and when your oppressive regime causes otherwise eager buyers to turn away from you, what do you think happens to an economy? Heck, Venezuela was struggling like crazy when oil was $90 a barrel! Other members of OPEC or other oil-producing countries (USA, Canada, Norway, etc) experienced similar downturns in their economies, but were mitigated by either A)cheaper cost to produce barrels and years worth of cash reserves (SA, Iraq, Iran, UAE, Kuwait, etc.) or B) Were not a totally oil-based economy (USA, Canada, Norway)

      Oppressive socialism doesn’t work. Social Democracy does work, as demonstrated, once again, by the many Western European nations which provide their citizens with conditions of life that promote happiness, more equality, good health, long life, and more social mobility than America has had in 2 generations.

      “What a fool. Jesus never said to help the poor by giving money to the government. He said give your own money.”

      He did say render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. Why, then, do so many wealthy “Christians” seek to hide their money in tax shelters, lie and cheat on their taxes, and not pay their fair share? I guess they are all asking themselves, “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

      “And yes, cringe away about someone talking about black people. I have lots of black friends and you know what they have in common? They think liberals are fools and Dems. have sold out blacks.”

      LOL. Are you talking about your family members? I am not saying that Democrats have done much better historically than Republicans for blacks, because they have gotten the shaft for generations, but Dems definitely represent their causes better now than Republicans do by far.

      BTW, “I have many black friends” is like the bat signal for “I am about to tell a lie”

      PS: New Coke was actually a different product, not just a different name. I knew this post would be difficult to respond to when even your silly comments don’t make any logical sense.

      • May 21, 2018 at 2:29 pm
        bob says:
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        “Oppressive socialism doesn’t work. Social Democracy does work, as demonstrated, once again, by the many Western European nations which provide their citizens with conditions of life that promote happiness, more equality, good health, long life, and more social mobility than America has had in 2 generations.”

        You did not prove that last point. I noticed you snake skinned that last point in without data. Western European nations do not, when accounting for lifestyle choices, have better healthcare outcomes. They have better health, this is not due to their universal healthcare systems.

        I’ve gone over the WHO report before, such as accounting for the fact that in most nations they do not count still births as infant mortality, and then they wonder why our infant mortality rate is so high. That could not possibly have anything to do with insufficient access to health care. This is but one example.

        “BTW, “I have many black friends” is like the bat signal for “I am about to tell a lie””

        No it’s not. It’s the defense when people like you call republicans racists and against black people.

        “OL. Are you talking about your family members? I am not saying that Democrats have done much better historically than Republicans for blacks, because they have gotten the shaft for generations, but Dems definitely represent their causes better now than Republicans do by far.”

        Handouts are not helping, also, you didn’t prove this and no they haven’t. There are studies (not going to take the time to put them here you look it up) showing that poverty for blacks is high for two reasons. One is where they started from, due to racism, so they have to catch up. Ok, that will take time, and social programs haven’t worked much. The other is that they tend to fill low skill jobs due to this. Remind me, what happened to low skill jobs? Are you aware there is a racial war between Hispanics and black folks right now, when it comes to the intellectual black person? Why? Because low skill jobs have gone to illegal immigrants, and the black community has not moved into high skill jobs enough. What has resulted is poverty, and incarceration explosion rates as well as some cities in which black crime has exploded. Remember how I said before when I see black crime and it is a problem (and it is) I do not see this as a that means they are worse than white people, and I said we have to admit they have that problem to help it, and that is the cause of democrats? Well, look at the two items above. Low skill jobs are indeed being taken due to democrats being weak on immigration.

        But what about the other? High skill jobs. You would think with the funding it would work. But instead black folks remain stuck. Watch me while I blow your mind.

        Why?

        Many people are asking this.

        WHY?

        You won’t believe the answer. I don’t mean this as in woah you won’t believe it, I mean you will refuse this answer, but it’s true.

        What are black folks taught in college? That they can get ahead if they try?

        Have you seen the debates?

        They are taught that a shadowy racist figure is out there to get them. That they cannot succeed due to racism. They are being set up for failure. That’s why. Yes. Racism held them back. Yes. Racism is why they are behind. No. This does not mean any present governmental action can save them, or that an overt racism in present day business owners and white population and white supremacy is the reason for their woes. Tell someone that, and they will think they are screwed. I once supported MRA’s, after I got into the victim mentality. More than I should have. Why? Because the world was beating me up, and I would rather believe that it’s the world’s problem than mine. Cue the reason why black people fail. Democrats. What they teach them in school.

        So in the low skill democrats took their jobs, and in the high skill, they set them up to fail.

        The rest:

        The tax rates in those nations make it difficult to live whatsoever. I would be worse off in Sweden than America. When you look at take home pay, if I lived there I would take home half my income. So say $45,000. In America I take home even after social security and medicare $87,115 because of the fact I get a refund from taxes. I get free healthcare for my kids in WA State.

        The way our system is set up right now, with CHIP, everyone is fine. We don’t need to add adults to an all Medicare system. Also, we do have a private and public system for healthcare. The extremely impoverished either get state healthcare, or free healthcare at hospitals. They get a bill, they may go bankrupt, but then they can spend the rest of their life getting $87,000 per year if they pull themselves up, instead of $45,000 per year with free healthcare and 2 years free college. You don’t want America do go the way of too many programs like Sweden. You are wrong that it is better to live there. So I may end up in the last 20 years of my life paying $15,000 per year for my wife and me. By then I will have saved for my entire life and will get assistance if I didn’t from the government in the U.S. Either of those scenarios will allow me to either save up and get good wealth or get help. It’s a better system, as those who saved up, help others. They are their brother’s keeper, when they take care of themselves before trying to take care of others.

        You said a lot of biblical twisted crud above.

        Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s had a different lesson than what you say. It was him saying to a population that he isn’t a King of this world. It was not to say pay Caesar it is just. In fact, in the bible it also says do not follow a law which is against God. God does supersede Caesar. It will take time to find the quote. You look it up.

        Regarding shielding taxes: Legally, I might add. Corporations pay individuals. You seem to have admitted that and said no one is taking the debate against lower taxes and said we need to increase individual ones then. Ok, then why did you make the shielding comment? Just a moral catch 22 against Craig? You contradict yourself just to call him a hypocrite? The same weakness as Ron.

        You’re an idiot, and I don’t have more time than this. I’m ending it here. Grow up kid.

      • May 21, 2018 at 3:13 pm
        bob says:
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        “Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s had a different lesson than what you say. It was him saying to a population that he isn’t a King of this world. It was not to say pay Caesar it is just. In fact, in the bible it also says do not follow a law which is against God. God does supersede Caesar. It will take time to find the quote. You look it up.
        Regarding shielding taxes: Legally, I might add. Corporations pay individuals. You seem to have admitted that and said no one is taking the debate against lower taxes and said we need to increase individual ones then. Ok, then why did you make the shielding comment? Just a moral catch 22 against Craig? You contradict yourself just to call him a hypocrite? The same weakness as Ron.”

        Regarding this I need to further clarify I am not saying that taxes are unjust. That is not true. The bible does not say that.

        I am however combining the two to say the point of the quote you used is not regarding taxes, even though it seems to be. It is a quote showing God is above this world. If Caesar asks for something on this world he’s asking for something which isn’t God’s (unless it’s your soul or your life) and God doesn’t care about. God doesn’t want your tax money.

        I tied it full circle by pointing out that the people you say are sheltering tax money are doing it legally. Not illegally.

        And doing so allows for them to grow capital, which is largely why nations allow it.

        Politicians then bash the people who do it, and continue to allow it, or lower tax rates which is another way of allowing capital growth without tax sheltering being needed. These individual politicians know capital building is important, they are simply using the anti rich argument to bolster support from the poor.

        I don’t buy it, and neither should you.

        • May 21, 2018 at 4:19 pm
          Cut the Bias says:
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          (writes 1100 some-odd words)

          “I have no time to waste on you…good day sir!”

          (waits half an hour)

          “I demand satisfaction!” (glove slap)

          • May 21, 2018 at 4:20 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            And kudos to the IJ moderators for making you look like less of a sociopath with your “I am a good person! Craig is a good person! You are not a good person!” weird rant that was deleted faster than it took you to press the post comment button.

          • May 21, 2018 at 4:30 pm
            bob says:
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            A:

            I love your rebuttal. It’s why you’re a bad person. Which you are. It’s not sociopathic to say that.

            B:

            I noticed you don’t have a rebuttal.

            You’re used to talking down to people like you do Craig. So when I then talk down on you, you then default to “sociopath”.

            No. It’s a bit different. This is reactive. Yours is not. I reacted to a post in which you basically called Craig racist. You basically called his party racist. You basically said they didn’t love their neighbors. Etc.

            That’s why you’re immoral.

            By the way, they deleted it because I called you a brat. Every post I’ve done that they have deleted. Not because I said I was better than you. Which I am.

            And this post will likely stay due to not calling you a brat, if I were a betting man.

          • May 21, 2018 at 4:35 pm
            bob says:
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            Also:

            Sociopaths do not acknowledge people as their equal. I put Craig and I side by side.

            I will also note I gave reasons why you were what you were. That is not sociopath.

            I am questioning your logics. I am demeaning your logics.

            You however, are demeaning people. When I say I’m better than you, it’s not a random comment to demean. It is again reactive, a response to degradation.

            A lot of sociopaths take advantage of what you just did. They march into an equation knowing they are causing a problem, and when the person insults back, they use it to discredit the person.

            I don’t discredit on that basis, though I certainly comment on it. The 1100 words were about logics and process. I dedicated how much of that to saying you were a bad person? Maybe 10%. You dedicated the full 90% to saying I’m a sociopath and a hypocrite for saying I don’t want to waste time.

            I don’t. I spent too much time in that post. And unlike you, I tend to leave for a while, by your own admission in past posts. I’m not contradicting myself by taking some time and saying it wastes my time to have taken it.

            You don’t take the debate with me. You ignored it. Entirely. Instead you defaulted to the part where I said I was better than you. When I go to you I ignore most your “I’m better than you” and default to the argument.

            Which action is more sociopathic?

            You’re not talking with a fool Bias.

          • May 21, 2018 at 4:50 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            No rebuttal yet, because I am at work, and am responsible for managing the Southeast territory of my company and don’t have time to provide the sourcing that your posts so sorely lack (while calling mine out for the two or three times I decided to skip them) The difference being, when I make assertions without sourcing, they are still based in fact. When you, Craig, Agent, Polar, et al do it, the source is usually a best-seller book series. You probably remember the name, right?. Maybe when I grow up and get some time tonight, I can comb through your post.

            I can tell it will be a fun one, at least. :)

            It’s a shame because your first post started out with such a respectful tone that, even though I disagreed with many of its premises, I couldn’t answer you in any way besides respectful.

            But then you went into soliloquy about good and bad people and started to get more and more demeaning, that respect is not warranted. I suppose I should have known, but I try to see the best in people.

          • May 21, 2018 at 4:52 pm
            confused says:
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            i believe they also took down his post where he said you failed to support one of your arguments with any links — ignoring the 10 times you posted links – then said he didn’t have time to post a single link to support his argument saying that you could search for it online.

  • May 18, 2018 at 12:05 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    When President Obama was campaigning in 2008, he said the debt was immoral.
    The budget debt then was about 8 trillion. Today, it is 20 trillion. (Hold you breath on the “saving the world” nonsense for a second.)

    Obama famously tried to address the debt in an agreement with John Boehner. In fact, the White House announced a deal on a Sunday. Hurray! The country is saved. (But wait, why bother if the debt is no big deal?)

    On Monday, Obama lied and said the deal was busted by Boehner when in fact Obama killed it, according to the NY Times a year later. Oh well. (Lying is cool for Democrats, but not for Trump.)

    Most people of expertise and good reputation say we have to find about 100 trillion dollars over the next 25 years in order to pay for unfunded Medicare and Social Security (which both go into the hole in about 7 years now). The 100 trillion also includes underfunded pensions for public workers, largely in blue states like California.

    In early 2017, the Wall Street Journal wrote an article talking about the increase in wealth in the USA as stocks and real estate values rose. They said that the total wealth in America, including houses, stocks, gold, land, corporate assets, cash and everything from individuals and businesses combined totaled: 120 trillion.

    So yes, Pollyana. We are bankrupt. Just pretend compassion means more taxes and spending. After all, we still have checks in our check book. When the crunch comes – soon – you can blame it on Republicans as usual.

    • May 18, 2018 at 1:14 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      I’m so old, I remember when Craig wrote, “man, you are one blabby dude. Hard to even read all that nonsense.”

      They are voting on this bill today, right? Hopefully, they find it within themselves to think more about feeding mouths than military dealers’ pockets.

  • May 18, 2018 at 12:10 pm
    Rosenblatt says:
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    Cut the Bias … good luck not feeding the troll!

    • May 18, 2018 at 1:29 pm
      bob says:
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      There are no trolls here, and every time you say that, it is invalidating opinions, and is bullying.

      Brat.

      • May 18, 2018 at 2:06 pm
        Rosenblatt says:
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        Calling someone a troll is not bullying,especially when they are trolling. You being unable to see he is making deliberately offensives and provocative posts with the aim of upsetting someone and/or eliciting angry responses does not mean he’s not trolling. Here’s some examples of his trolling just in this article:

        *man, you are one blabby dude. Hard to even read all that nonsense.
        *Typical liberal
        *If you truly knew anything about
        *you could be honest about what happened in Venezuela
        *What a fool.
        *So yes, Pollyana … Just pretend
        *So much for the “compassion” of your Christian values

        Then again – this is a guy who called me out for being dishonest when I said he posted that people here have posted marijuana has zero negative effects, then he didn’t acknowledge the 5 posts I cited where he said that, and even continued to imply the same thing in the same article multiple times!

        https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/05/09/488743.htm/?comments#comment-4835326

      • May 25, 2018 at 3:50 pm
        helpingout says:
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        Bob,
        If you believe that is bullying then you to are a part of this bullying epidemic here as well. not only that but you called him a brat and you attempted to reduce Cut’s point by calling him a kid and to grow up. That is childish and does not need to be on this site. Follow your own advice bob or (and I am quoting you here) grow up kid.

    • May 18, 2018 at 1:30 pm
      bob says:
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      Here’s the problem with you Ron and cut the bias:

      You all believe you are the social justice warriors, ending the immorality. Much like the 50’s 60’s, and 70’s republicans. Is it any wonder they didn’t lead congress for 40 years? Not really to me.

      The more you basically go after the character of people making commentary, like you bias with the wow that’s so racist comment, the more it shows you aren’t fit to have any influence. You’re a brat, all three of you are childish brats.

      • May 18, 2018 at 3:50 pm
        confused says:
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        “The more you basically go after the character of people making commentary….”

        says the guy who just now called three people brats.

        but i’m sure you’ll do some mental gymnastics and argue you calling people brats is okay and justified and rosenblatt calling (and even supporting) someone a troll are two totally different things and that he’s wrong and you’re right. or you will simply not post anymore which would be a classic bob move: posting holier-than-tho comments on friday and then go silent until next friday. repeat ad nauseum.

        • May 18, 2018 at 3:51 pm
          confused says:
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          edit: holier-than-thou

      • May 18, 2018 at 3:51 pm
        Cut the Bias says:
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        You keep saying that word. Do you mean we are bratwursts by chance? I do love a good brat on the grill, especially when it bursts open and starts sizzling. Grilling out this weekend as long as the rain stays away. :)

        but, back to the conversation at hand:

        Bob, go away. You obviously have nothing to add. Refute my points with facts and historical context, or keep taking potshots from your basement. If I point out racism, it’s because it is historically documented. I don’t just throw out that word willy-nilly, like someone who calls everyone who disagrees him in a sarcastic way with backed-up facts a “brat.”

        :)

        • May 18, 2018 at 4:04 pm
          Craig Cornell says:
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          “Tales from My A$$ With a Vengeance” is not a proper source . . .
          “I don’t hate people who speak Spanish. I just vote people into office who do.”
          What insight! Such tact and respectful dialogue.

          P.S. $1.015 trillion divided by $98 billion is about . . . 10%. Otherwise, good point.

          • May 18, 2018 at 4:15 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            Your arguments are disingenuous as are your hurt feelings.

            I did mention I was being sarcastic with the commentary, but the points themselves are based on actual resources, unlike your “Tales from your A$$” posts.

            PS: it is less than 10%, and the other side was slightly more than 10%, as I described in my post. You are missing the point when you said one was 10% while the other was 1%. In fact, it was actually slightly less than 10% and slightly more than 10%, respectively.

  • May 18, 2018 at 5:06 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    I don’t hate people that speak Gibberish. I just vote for them instead . . .

    Tell me again that Venezuelans are starving because of oil prices (which are now over $80 a barrel for the first time in years).

    As much as it hurts to laugh while people are suffering, I just can’t help laughing when you say that . . .

    • May 19, 2018 at 4:12 am
      Cut the Bias says:
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      I said they were struggling even when oil was $90 per barrel. Do you lack reading comprehension?

      Here it is again, so you “can’t” miss it:

      “Heck, Venezuela was struggling like crazy when oil was $90 a barrel! Other members of OPEC, or other oil-producing countries (USA, Canada, Norway, etc) experienced similar downturns in their economies, but were mitigated by either A)cheaper cost to produce barrels and years worth of cash reserves (SA, Iraq, Iran, UAE, Kuwait, etc.) or B) Were not a totally oil-based economy (USA, Canada, Norway)”

      So, if they didn’t have money when oil was crazy high, what do you think happened to their economy when oil dropped 300%??

      Do you do any critical thinking before you post or do you just mash random right-wing talking points into the text box until you are satisfied?

  • May 18, 2018 at 5:25 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    Quick: tell me the GDP per capita in Europe vs. the GDP per capita in the USA.
    Here’s a helpful tip: GDP includes all spending, by consumers, by businesses and
    yes, by the government.

    Answer: Europe’s GDP per capita, including all social welfare spending, averages 30% less than that in the USA.

    Gee, seems like Social Democracy – or whatever you want to call it – is a flat loser.

    Fun fact: recent polls in every European country on the top 30 issues for voters puts illegal immigration at number 1 or 2 in EVERY country. What racists!

    • May 19, 2018 at 4:08 am
      Cut the Bias says:
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      Next time, on “General Hospital.”

      Billy: (coughing, short of breath) “Doc. Did insurance approve me for the surgery?”

      Dr. “You know, Billy, these things are difficult to understand…

      Billy:(wheezing) Give it to me straight, I can take it!

      Dr. (checking his watch) Your claim has been denied. There is nothing we can do. Would you rather die at home or here in the hospital?”

      Billy: “Aw shucks, Doc. Well, at least I can die happy knowing that America’s GDP is higher than most of the countries in Europe.”

      The nurse wipes flecks of blood from Billy’s chin from coughing.

      Billy: “Thanks, doll.”

      Billy rests his chin on his chest as his breathing slowly fades until it stops completely.

      beep. beep. beep. beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. The EKG flatlines.

      Nurse Ratchet: “Time of death 12:36pm. Let’s get the body out of here before it starts to stink.”

      Doc “Good work, Nancy. Could you file the paperwork and call Humana’s CEO and let him know he’ll be able to afford that second Gulfstream Jet after all? I’ve got a tee time I’m going to be late to if I don’t get moving.”

      Nurse Ratchet: “Sure thing, Doctor.”

      Curtain drops. End Scene.

      • May 19, 2018 at 1:39 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        Man, you are a lot of work to get to a point.

        Tell me how Single Payer countries lower expenses. Here’s how:

        1. Lower hospital costs.
        2. Lower doctors costs.
        3. Kaiser-like choice restrictions on treatments.

        If you want to blame insurance companies, please explain Switzerland’s very successful and inexpensive health care system using – horrors! – insurance companies.

        (Please, no more boring stories. I don’t have time.)

  • May 18, 2018 at 5:49 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    Jesus said render unto Caeser . . .

    Well, I don’t think Jesus was approving of the Roman social safety net at the time as a method of helping the poor. But if you lefties say that’s what he meant, let’s cut out all social welfare benefits – just like in Roman days – in order to honor what Jesus really meant.

    • May 19, 2018 at 3:56 am
      Cut the Bias says:
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      I just can’t help myself, and I just got done rocking my newborn back to sleep.

      The Romans had social welfare benefits in spades, in some cases more than what is available to this day. This involved free grain, bread, and eventually olive oil and meat. The poor and orphaned were taken care of by tribunals out of the taxes paid by areas that Rome overtook. Taken to the logical conclusion that, if people stopped paying their tributes (taxes), the poor would not have gotten the help that they needed.

      I realize that you don’t know any actual history and instead are just making comments because they sound good in your own mind, but still, you couldn’t be any more ironic if you tried.

      • May 19, 2018 at 1:41 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Good one! The Romans were just like modern day Europe.

        Okay, I have had enough with you. You have confirmed my basic assumption. In order
        to be a liberal today, you have to be either completely ignorant of economic history or dishonest or both.

        I really don’t care which it is with you. You are not worth listening to. You Animal, you!

        • May 21, 2018 at 8:49 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          APRIL 6, 2018 AT 11:19 AM
          Craig Cornell says:
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          Your comment above is the equivalent of calling me a Poopy Head.
          Have some pride, man. Try actual insight instead of insults.
          If you would like a debate on any of the subjects you mention, lets go.
          If you want to stay with third grade insults, you are on your own.

          ———————————–
          So, obviously, this bill didn’t get the votes it needed because too much money allocated to those stinky poor people, huh?

  • May 18, 2018 at 8:13 pm
    Confused says:
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    lemme help ya here capain

    Craig Cornell says:
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    Cut the Bias: man, you are one blabby dude. Hard to even read all that nonsense

    • May 18, 2018 at 9:30 pm
      Cut the Bias says:
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      Lol, seriously. His last batch of posts seem more like the 4 AM ramblings of one Donald John Trump. Not worth my time to respond.

      I love that the last bastion of every troll alt-righter is to send someone on a scavenger hunt. Polar does it, bobbo does it, and now Craig is doing it. I may have to do some literary analysis to see if they are all the same people.

      Their ideas all originate from the same source, at least that much can be seen from a mile away.

      • May 19, 2018 at 1:43 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        Ad hominem. The last refuge of those lacking truthful, honest ideas.

        I lump you with boring Planet now.

        • May 21, 2018 at 8:50 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          APRIL 19, 2018 AT 2:53 PM
          Craig Cornell says:
          LIKE OR DISLIKE
          Thanks, third grader!



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