Supreme Court Says Colorado Erred in Gay Wedding Cake Case

By | June 4, 2018

  • June 4, 2018 at 1:12 pm
    Dave says:
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    Wow! You don’t see 7-2 very often these days. Pretty decisive

    • June 4, 2018 at 5:34 pm
      integrity matters says:
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      Agreed, Dave! I cannot remember the last ruling one that was not 5-4.

      Unfortunately, the author (Greg Stohr) apparently thinks this is a narrow ruling. He either:
      1) Wrote some of this article before the decision (expecting a 5-4 vote) and forgot to proofread and fix it,
      2) Hasn’t been paying attention to the previous SCOTUS decisions, or
      3) Is trying to “soften” the blow to those that were hoping for a different verdict so that they think they got a participation trophy and won’t go screaming at the sky.

      My money is on # 3.

      • June 5, 2018 at 6:46 am
        Andrew G. Simpson says:
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        No, none of that is true. The author read the opinion; that’s how he knows it is a narrow ruling. We provided the link to the opinion.

        • June 5, 2018 at 8:42 am
          PolarBeaRepeal says:
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          You are correct. Thanks for providing the link. However, the decisions by the liberal leaning SCOTUS Justices indicate the issue is fairly clear, despite their discussions.

          Most important: this issue points to liberal bias and legislating from the bench of STATE courts, that, unfortunately, results in appeals to SCOTUS that wastes time and money to properly and finally adjudicate.

          • June 5, 2018 at 12:43 pm
            Agent says:
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            Polar, not surprised at the two dissenting votes. They had to wake Ruth Buzzi up so she could say no. Hopefully, she will retire soon so we can get another Conservative appointed. Kennedy has hinted he may be about ready as well. Chucky Schmucky will go completely insane when this happens.

          • June 5, 2018 at 2:16 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Good to see you 2 like SCOTUS again. I’m so old, I remember when you were cussing the bunch over the PPACA ruling. It fits though, hate them when you disagree with them, like them when you agree with their ruling. Kind of like your perception of The Bible. Or better yet, those misinterpreting it for you.

          • June 5, 2018 at 3:06 pm
            integrity matters says:
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            Planet, It’s a matter of liking them when they actually follow the Constitution versus disliking their rulings when they don’t follow the Constitution and legislate from the bench.

            Just like not appreciating people taking the Bible out of context and making it work to fit their narrative.

        • June 5, 2018 at 3:01 pm
          integrity matters says:
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          Thanks, Andrew. My bad and I apologize for the snarky remarks.

  • June 4, 2018 at 1:26 pm
    Curious says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    What does this have to do with insurance?

    • June 4, 2018 at 1:27 pm
      Oh Goody says:
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      Potential third party discrimination claim under EPL.

      • June 4, 2018 at 8:06 pm
        Agency says:
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        This is not an EPL case, if this supreme court sided with the Colorado Civil Right Division and someone did not abide by this, then I believe this is a personal injury issue. This has nothing to do with employment, you are dealing with the customer or potential customer.

        • June 5, 2018 at 8:44 am
          PolarBeaRepeal says:
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          No, the issue COULD develop into an EPL claim. Note ‘potential’ in the comment by ‘Oh Goody’.

  • June 4, 2018 at 2:00 pm
    jason says:
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    Good article but disappointing verdict. I hate the fact that business owners don’t have the liberty to operate their own businesses as they see fit.
    Why should they be forced to accept something that goes against their beliefs?
    I don’t support the LGBT community but I am not against it. I’m sure there are plenty of other bakery shops that are willing to accommodate their request, so why not just take their business to those establishments instead?

    • June 4, 2018 at 2:03 pm
      Cut the Bias says:
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      Jason…read the article again.

      • June 4, 2018 at 2:43 pm
        confused says:
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        someone who posted in the IJ comment section didn’t properly comprehend what they read before they posted? un-be-lievable!!!! (end sarcasm)

        • June 5, 2018 at 8:47 am
          PolarBeaRepeal says:
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          You’re correct. So, re-read it. This is a situation where the LBGT party intentionally took their request to a bakery which they KNEW would object, so as to create a legal confrontation under Colorado’s unconstitutional law. SCOTUS corrected this malfeasance by the CO legislators.

          • June 5, 2018 at 1:37 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            Just a generation or two ago, it would have read:

            “You’re correct. So, re-read it. This is a situation where the negro party intentionally took themselves to a whites only lunch counter which they KNEW would object, so as to create a legal confrontation under Alabama’s unconstitutional law. SCOTUS corrected this malfeasance by the AL legislators.”

            Gays are people.
            All people should be treated equally, according to the Constition (right?)
            How should I treat Gay people?

            if gay = people and people = treated equally, then:
            I should treat people equally.

            EASY MATH.

          • June 5, 2018 at 1:46 pm
            Jack says:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • June 5, 2018 at 2:06 pm
            Ron says:
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            “And before you say it’s not a choice, I could choose to be gay tomorrow, therefore it’s a choice.”

            1. That only means it is a choice for you.
            2. The only way that logic works is if it is a choice by all gay people.

          • June 5, 2018 at 2:19 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            So Jack,
            When did you decide to be a heterosexual? What age were you? Let me guess, you didn’t decide. So, it’s sexual orientation is innate, isn’t it?

            Happy to help you understand. What else might you be confused about?

          • June 7, 2018 at 2:23 pm
            bob says:
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            Incorrect Bias, and how dare you.

            He said ” LBGT party”

            And this means a political movement was referenced, not all gays. How, dare, you.

            Having a problem with the “LGBT” agenda is quite possible without having problem with gay folks.

            Why?

            As I said many times, WA state made it illegal for anyone who takes fees, even celebratory, to discriminate. This means I cannot pay for the expenses for my priest to say fly to Hawaii for my wedding. I would have to pay for the priest there.

            Or, for example, in WA State republicans were willing to pass anti discrimination laws for gays provided that facebook social comments didn’t count for criminal liability. CRIMINAL LIABILITY BIAS. I kid you not. This is the totalitarian left.

            Or, when republicans said we will pass gay marriage provided you make protections for churches, and the LGBT activists insisted it be passed without the protections, because as they worded it, it would be a win for churches. Or you could go with everyone is protected. How about that?

            The LGBT activist crowd is not synonymous with what you just said.

            HOW DARE YOU.

            I demand an a recant and an apology.

            I know you are used to calling everyone racist and sexist and bigoted, but it makes you immoral.

          • June 7, 2018 at 2:30 pm
            bob says:
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            “So Jack,
            When did you decide to be a heterosexual? What age were you? Let me guess, you didn’t decide. So, it’s sexual orientation is innate, isn’t it?
            Happy to help you understand. What else might you be confused about?”

            Yes. Most people don’t choose to be innately inclined to reproduce as you know is kind of required for a species to exist and therefore is basically innate for the vast majority of animals. That’s science and makes sense. Using that as evidence that the other side doesn’t choose to go against the biological drive to reproduce as a these are the same thing statement is so inept and ignorant I cannot believe it.

            As for becoming gay being a choice:

            Whether it is or isn’t doesn’t matter.

          • June 7, 2018 at 2:35 pm
            Ron says:
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            “As for becoming gay being a choice:

            Whether it is or isn’t doesn’t matter.”

            Actually, that is the core of why us heterosexual will fight to defend them and for their rights to be treated as equal.

            If it were a choice, I would not back them.

          • June 7, 2018 at 2:45 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/05/31/490734.htm/?comments

            You claimed I said marijuana should not be regulated and the rest of what I said was mumbo jumbo that didn’t track, yet I clearly said it SHOULD be regulated multiple times. Guess what, bob? I demand a recant and an apology too! (I didn’t know we could do that)

          • June 7, 2018 at 3:19 pm
            Ron says:
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            bob, please seek anger management, reading comprehension skills and , if possible, a working brain.

          • June 7, 2018 at 3:31 pm
            confused says:
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            pro tip: if you refuse to read someone’s reply to you, don’t bother posting to them in the first place!

          • June 7, 2018 at 4:30 pm
            Jack says:
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        • June 6, 2018 at 5:21 pm
          Agent says:
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          Confused, we remember Bob trying to straighten you out for almost a year on reading comprehension and it was all in vain. (sarcasm)

          • June 7, 2018 at 11:20 am
            confused says:
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            what part of that was sarcasm?

          • June 7, 2018 at 11:45 am
            Cut the Bias says:
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            The sarcasm is that we don’t remember? or that it was all in vain? Or that it was bob doing it and not some other unknown part?
            Pray tell, Agent. In your infinite wit and wisdom

  • June 4, 2018 at 2:31 pm
    Sherry says:
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    The decision favored the bakery.

    • June 4, 2018 at 2:50 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Bakers and Florists should have the right to refuse service if it goes against their religion. Good to see the country turning around now on our freedoms. The other side wants to dictate what a business can and cannot do. That is the dictatorship of the proletariat. Had enough of that in the prior 8 years under the Progressive Socialist element.

      • June 4, 2018 at 2:57 pm
        Ron says:
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        Businesses should have the right to do business with whomever they wish. Whether it be religious, political, gender, or person looks at you funny..

  • June 4, 2018 at 3:14 pm
    Lou says:
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    The verdict is a limited one and one that I think is ultimately bad. The only reason the baker won( I’m his side) is the animus shown by people, or authorities in charge. Had no animus toward religion been shown, our baker would have lost the case. Our country and people have shed blood for our freedoms. We should have the ability to do business with whomever we desire or not desire. That gay couple could have just gone down the street and found a baker, but no, they want to shove their lifestyle down our throats. They’re aided by greedy, dumb, venal politicians and voters who have no concept of freedom.

    • June 4, 2018 at 3:39 pm
      NC P&C Agent says:
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      The SC punted and voted it down on procedural grounds. They’re kicking the can down the sidewalk for a future court.

      • June 4, 2018 at 4:51 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        Actually, no they didn’t. They DID open the door for all kinds of arguments besides Freedom of Religion. Such as the freedom to do whatever the hell you want as a business, regardless of religious beliefs or non-beliefs.

        • June 5, 2018 at 10:37 am
          Agent says:
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          The Baker won. Next up is the Florists case. Hopefully the same result. Time to end the LBGT crowd forcing their lifestyle on others.

          • June 5, 2018 at 11:35 am
            Cut the Bias says:
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            Do you know how stupid “forcing their lifestyle on others” sounds?

            You realize gay people are not at all different than straight people. Gay people aren’t forcing you to be gay, to marry them, or anything else that would fit the bill of being FORCED on their lifestyle.

            They just want to be treated like everyone else who isn’t harming anyone.

            “Love one another as I have loved you. By this shall men know that ye are my disciples.”
            -Jesus Christ

            I don’t think the quote says:

            “Love people who are like you as I have loved you. Refuse to treat all others equally. The gay especially might rub off on you.”

            Maybe I am wrong, though.

          • June 5, 2018 at 2:10 pm
            Ron says:
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            Funny how you think forcing gay people to find a tolerant baker, florist, caterer, etc. will stop them from continuing to fight for equal rights.

          • June 5, 2018 at 2:22 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Ever stop to think for a minute that gay people feel like the heterosexual lifestyle has been forced upon them? Why not just have everyone love openly and freely? You do understand, those same sexual acts homosexuals partake in occur in a heterosexual bedroom as well, right? C’mon Agent, you can’t possibly be serious with that comment!

          • June 7, 2018 at 2:35 pm
            bob says:
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            “Cut the Bias says:
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            1
            Do you know how stupid “forcing their lifestyle on others” sounds?
            You realize gay people are not at all different than straight people. Gay people aren’t forcing you to be gay, to marry them, or anything else that would fit the bill of being FORCED on their lifestyle.
            They just want to be treated like everyone else who isn’t harming anyone.
            “Love one another as I have loved you. By this shall men know that ye are my disciples.”
            -Jesus Christ
            I don’t think the quote says:
            “Love people who are like you as I have loved you. Refuse to treat all others equally. The gay especially might rub off on you.”
            Maybe I am wrong, though”

            Your come back is high and mighty, allow me to kick you of your horse.

            You are not Dumbledore’s army. Allow me to enlighten you on that too. You think very highly of your morality and that all these people are just so evil.

            Perhaps you need to alter how you think.

            There are schools teaching regarding homosexuality. That was started when I was young, and the crowd said they would never do it. That’s not ok.

            There are numerous laws, some of which I quoted, in which it is clear the goal is to make it illegal to ever believe or make the statement that homosexuality is harmful (both to society and the person themselves) and in the later case, seeing the depression rates, is harmful to helping gay folks. You can be against people forcing something to be considered “equal” (being gay is not equal or synonymous with being straight) without being against the individual doing the action. The problem is you agree with identity politics, very dangerous. As in, if you disagree with the lifestyle, you have harmed the individual.

            The mentality of the gay movement has for some time been:

            Fire anyone who supports anti gay laws (subjective. Not all people against gay marriage are against gay folks, there are real reasons often and some even offer other methods to allow civil unions.)

            Shame them.

            Remove them from social media.

            Ban their accounts.

            Subject them to criminal liability for those actions, as I mentioned with the WA State law (if you think this is crazy, right now you cannot report about Muslims negatively in places in the EU and UK without being arrested for it).

            And to push anyone against your mentality into the shadows.

            The gay movement is oppressive in every region they occupy.

            It has nothing to do with the feel good garbage that you just said. It needs to be kept in check.

        • June 5, 2018 at 11:28 am
          Agent says:
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          Craig, the Bible is very clear on homosexuality.

          You shall not lie with a male as with a woman, it is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22

          • June 5, 2018 at 11:38 am
            Cut the Bias says:
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            Agent, the Bible is very clear on mixing fabrics, eating shellfish and pork, and beating your slaves.

            Deuteronomy 22:11
            Leviticus 11:9
            Exodus 21:20-21

            Hurry, Agent, to your local town square, or preferably outside your city walls (to lessen the need for clean-up) so that we may stone you.

    • June 5, 2018 at 1:46 pm
      mrbob says:
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      Cut the Bias
      I would disagree with your use of Christ’s words to support that he would be in support of any lifestyle. During Christ’s time on earth and to the people he was speaking the concept of a man lying with a man was wrong and as such not necessary to address. Christ always instructed that we should hate the sin but love the sinner, hence why he would keep company with those of low status in society. I doubt had Paul not repented from the manner in which he treated the people he collected taxes from that Christ would have left the church to him to establish.

      • June 5, 2018 at 2:18 pm
        Cut the Bias says:
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        I would never insinuate that Christ would support sin of any kind. I myself believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin, and any sexual relations between men is a sin, as well. but where Jesus diverts from current evangelical teachers who profess loudly in his name, is that he truly loves the sinner, supports them, treats them with kindness, respect, and care.

        Does a baker who says, ” I refuse to bake cakes for these men because they are gay and I don’t support gay marriage” fit that bill?

        I know none of us can truly reach the level of love and care that Jesus has for all of us, even the worst of us, but shouldn’t we try?

        I do not understand one single bit how a baker who professes himself to be a Christian would deny his skills and services to his fellow man simply because they live a life he doesn’t agree with.

        Once again, so that no one misunderstands: these adults are not hurting anyone. The baker refusing his services is outright discrimination, regardless of the shield of religion he wants to hide behind.

        • June 5, 2018 at 3:24 pm
          integrity matters says:
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          Cut,

          I appreciate your comments and you certainly possess a strong knowledge of the Christian faith and Bible.

          However, this couple trying to get the baker to make a cake to celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage that goes against his belief system is forcing their lifestyle on him. It is not a matter of hate against the couple, it is a matter of love for God’s principles. Would it be appropriate for anyone to help someone commit adultery? That couple might love each other as much as the gay couple.

          You said “I would never insinuate that Christ would support sin of any kind”. Do you think Jesus would have made the cake for this couple, attended the ceremony or performed the wedding?

          Based on his response to the prostitute that was going to get stoned, I think not. He would have loved them and accepted them for who they are, but, in the end, I think he would have said the same thing. Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more.

          He would have told them the truth (and what he tells us) that their lifestyle (any sinful lifestyle) is not what God intended for their (our) lives.

          • June 6, 2018 at 9:22 am
            Ron says:
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            While I do take the position that any business can choose with whom they wish to do business, in this case, it is just a cake. It’s not like he was being forced to actually perform the ceremony. Did he think that if he did not provide the cake the couple would not have gotten married? That he would have turned them into heterosexuals?

            I believe he was doing it more for publicity than his strong Christian beliefs. That is just my opinion.

  • June 5, 2018 at 11:49 am
    Agent says:
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    • June 5, 2018 at 12:51 pm
      helpingout says:
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      I think this is more on you picking and choosing what you follow rather than about the bible itself. The bible, though many translations, has been adapted by priests from the original texts. When it was first created some words had multiple meanings where it has been debated for a while now if the original text referred to a man sleeping with a man or if it was forcefully doing so. Again I was born Christian, but you must love your neighbor, which you are not doing.

      • June 5, 2018 at 1:00 pm
        Cut the Bias says:
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        This guy gets it.

      • June 5, 2018 at 1:38 pm
        Jack says:
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        Romans 1:26-29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
        26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is [a]unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing [b]indecent acts and receiving in [c]their own persons the due penalty of their error.

        • June 5, 2018 at 2:05 pm
          Cut the Bias says:
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          1 Corinthians 14:35
          “…it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.”

          1 Corinthians 11:6
          “For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off”

          Does your wife ever speak in church? Does she cover or head, or has she shaved all her hair off instead?

          You don’t perhaps pick and choose which commandments to follow in the Bible, do you?

          • June 6, 2018 at 2:04 pm
            sal says:
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            Agent–

            Of course, you do realize that heterosexuals also carry and spread AIDS, right? Sure you do.

            Your level of ignorance would almost be impressive if it wasn’t so scary. It’s people like you that have caused me to abandon the Republican party and register as an independent. You truly give conservatives and religious people a bad name.

        • June 5, 2018 at 4:04 pm
          integrity matters says:
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          oops..”Your”, not “You’re”. Typing too fast and not proof reading.

      • June 6, 2018 at 9:54 am
        Cut the Bias says:
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        Nothing brings me more joy in life than seeing you post something sardonic, inflammatory, and totally off-topic, only to then see you upvote yourself.

        If Twitter had that feature, it is the kind of the thing that Donald Trump would do to make himself feel validated.

      • June 15, 2018 at 4:07 pm
        Agent says:
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        The heart of the wise leans to the right, the heart of the fool leans to the left. Ecclesiates 10-2.

    • June 5, 2018 at 1:17 pm
      Cut the Bias says:
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      Matthew 7:21 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

      I believe in the teachings of the Bible:

      The greatest commandments are Love the Lord thy God and Love thy neighbor.

      Other commandments Jesus gave:

      -Love thy enemy. Turn the other cheek. He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone (war is evil, death penalty is evil)

      Did Jesus condemn the woman who was an adulterer and prostitute, or did he condemn those who chose to judge her and demand her life for her sins?

      Once again, Agent, are you sure you know what you actually believe? Is it the teachings of God and the Bible, or is the teachings of Limbaugh, Hannity, and the Echo Chamber?

      If people around you are telling you that you should shun gays and lesbians, and withhold services from them, or blacks, or latinos, or muslims, Jews, athiests, or liberals, etc. Do they have the spirit of contention, or do they exhibit the fruits of the Holy Ghost, notably found in Galatians 5:22 as having “…love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, and temperance…”

      Remember Proverbs 13:10 “…there is wisdom in those who take advice.”

      I am a Christian to the bone. I attend church weekly, read and study the Holy Scriptures and live a Christian life. I am by no means perfect, and never will be, but I try to emulate the teachings of Christ and his Apostles.

      “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”

      Nothing of what I have said in this response is meant to demean you, but to hopefully cause you to reflect. Though you have been taught homosexuals are deviants, not worthy of being treated fairly and equally, that is NOT a teaching of Christ. Treat everyone equally and with love, because that is what you would expect from them. What if you were a Jew or Muslim or a transgender woman in the South? Wouldn’t you want nothing more than just to be treated like everyone else? Is that not the American Dream in and of itself? Or does that only apply to Evangelical White People?

      • June 5, 2018 at 1:48 pm
        sal says:
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        equating pedophilia with homosexuality only shows your true ignorance, Jack. You’re a disgrace to our industry, which is based on serving PEOPLE.

      • June 5, 2018 at 1:53 pm
        Joe says:
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        Jack, you are a sick puppy to compare a pedophile to a gay person.

      • June 5, 2018 at 1:54 pm
        Cut the Bias says:
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        You are conflating people two consenting adult people getting married with a man preying on children. There isn’t really much to say here.

        The argument you are making is disingenuous at best and does not merit a legitimate response, because it isn’t a legitimate argument.

        Instead, you could say that the two marrying parties are white and black, woman and man respectively. 30 years ago, most of the churches in the south and many in the North would have called that an abomination and used the Bible to justify those positions. However, social norms have changed and now no normal Christian church on the planet would say it’s an abomination. and no baker in any state would say, “I don’t make cakes for interracial couples. It’s against my religion”

        So, by all means, dig your heels in about this. Nobody is forcing you, the baker, or anyone else from endorsing what two consenting adults do between the sheets, but everyone should be treated equal who aren’t hurting other people. 30 years from now, when society as a whole has moved on, you will either accept this and move on, like you hopefully have for interracial couples, or you will end up an old, hateful bigot that nobody loves.

        • June 5, 2018 at 2:59 pm
          integrity matters says:
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          Actually, what is being conflated are the issues of homosexuality and Christianity and the conflict they cause when they collide.

          First, Christianity (and other religions) condemn homosexuality as a “sin” in God’s eyes. God made the rules, not the people that try to follow them.

          Second, God views all “sin” as equal and it separates us from God. We humans “measure” the weight of the sin (i.e. stealing is worse than lying, murder is worse than stealing, etc). God simply says “sin is sin”, He doesn’t want in our life for our own good and it (sin) is not acceptable in His kingdom (heaven).

          Third, Jesus absolutely told us to love one another and to forgive each other. He also told the prostitute to “go and sin no more”. He didn’t simply just accept the sin and say it’s okay to continue doing it. Jesus (God) does not condone an active lifestyle of sinning. This is why we need a Savior because no one can save themselves spiritually.

          Fourth, the LGBT community over the past 2 decades has created a conflagration of the issue by forcing people who do not believe in that lifestyle (not all are Christians) to ACCEPT their lifestyle. They are not trying to force people to be gay, but they are trying to make that lifestyle seem normal or natural. The homosexual lifestyle directly conflicts with these religious beliefs.

          We Christians are not supposed to accept and condone the perpetuation of sin. Do we encourage people to continue to lie, commit adultery, steal, commit murder, etc..? No, we don’t. Does society “accept” people that lie and commit adultery? Yes, and unfortunately, more than we should. Those sins are accepted because they are so proliferated throughout society. Homosexuality has not been that way over the past two generations.

          All sin (and its acceptance) eats away at the moral fabric of society which is why we are where we are in todays society (all sin, not just one of them).

          Our problem, as a society, is that we lack respect for the other person and rarely consider that our own sin is just as bad as the next person’s sin…in God’s eyes. That is why Jesus said to not judge one another lest you be judged with the same measure. It is also why we need to reflect more on the grace given to us by God (through Jesus) and give that same grace to others.

          Remember, grace is something we get that we don’t deserve and mercy is NOT getting something that we do deserve. People who do not agree with the LGBT lifestyle should accept that it is their choice to live that lifestyle and people in the LGBT community (and those that support that lifestyle) should respect people’s opinions and religious beliefs that do not permit them to accept their lifestyle. There are numerous other parts of life that both parties CAN agree on.

          • June 5, 2018 at 3:24 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            integrity,

            Thank you for the thoughtful and well-reasoned reply.

            I can agree with some of what you say. It is definitely the truth, but you do contradict yourself a few times:

            You say God treats all sin equally, and it is humanity that sees it differently. if this is true, what religious value (if religion comes from God), does a baker drawing the line at not baking for gays have when he still bakes for liars, adulterers, etc? This would be a person arbitrarily drawing the line and saying, “This is the one we shouldn’t cross!” When God says otherwise, as you yourself have stated.

            Christian society very much accepts those that lie and commit adultery. Look at the Evangelical response to Donald Trump, for example. He may be one of the most despicable, areligious people out there, and yet, “faith leaders” continue to laud him and lavish him with praise as some sort of sword of righteousness holder. It’s disgusting. Far more so than two consenting, loving adults who share their lives together and just happen to be the same sex…

          • June 5, 2018 at 3:36 pm
            integrity matters says:
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            Cut,

            Thanks for your response. We might have to “agree to disagree” on this one. Here is a re-post of a response I gave you on one of the above posts if you have not seen it yet. I’ve indicated by the line separation.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
            However, this couple trying to get the baker to make a cake to celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage that goes against his belief system is forcing their lifestyle on him. It is not a matter of hate against the couple, it is a matter of love for God’s principles. Would it be appropriate for anyone to help someone commit adultery? That couple might love each other as much as the gay couple.

            You said “I would never insinuate that Christ would support sin of any kind”. Do you think Jesus would have made the cake for this couple, attended the ceremony or performed the wedding?

            Based on his response to the prostitute that was going to get stoned, I think not. He would have loved them and accepted them for who they are, but, in the end, I think he would have said the same thing. Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more.

            He would have told them the truth (and what he tells us) that their lifestyle (any sinful lifestyle) is not what God intended for their (our) lives.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>

            In this case with the baker, my perception is that the baker held onto the integrity he had for God’s word over the love he had for his fellow man. Let’s not forget that he was not refusing to serve them or make them any other type of cake. He displayed his Christian love by wanting to serve them, but could not cross the line of “denouncing his Christianity” (my words) by condoning their marriage with a wedding cake.

          • June 5, 2018 at 3:46 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            I’ll agree to that. :)

            Your positions are well-argued and reasoned and I can attest that you mean well. It really does come down to interpretation for this particular issue. I do believe on a whole, people use religion as too much of a crutch to their own bigotry, however, although I can agree that that doesn’t necessarily need to be the case in this instance.

            Thanks for the conversation.

          • June 5, 2018 at 3:57 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Nothing of substance to add here, except that was a very nice discussion/debate you two had. If only we could all get along so well as you two :)

          • June 5, 2018 at 4:54 pm
            Jack says:
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            cut the bias- “I do believe on a whole, people use religion as too much of a crutch to their own bigotry”

            Just curious what you use as a crutch to your bigotry?

          • June 5, 2018 at 9:14 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            Reasoning so circular. Arguments so 1950s…

            Jack = Jack Posobiec, right? Prove me wrong, internet. Prove me wrong!

          • June 6, 2018 at 9:57 am
            Cut the Bias says:
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            You apparently have no reading comprehension, Agent, since we had a pleasant conversation and back and forth in which both parties understood the other side and left better edified.

            Only you and our other resident trolls would see it as some sort of battle to be won.

          • June 6, 2018 at 10:52 am
            Jack says:
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            Cut the BS- Jack is not my real name, kinda like cut the bias isn’t yours. Is that hard for you to comprehend?

            I see IJ has removed comments again. I bet they would make you bake the cake everyone!

          • June 6, 2018 at 2:25 pm
            mrbob says:
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            Cut,
            Your point relative to providing services to other sinners although valid is somewhat off. The reason that the baker indicates that they would not make a cake for a gay wedding is far different from refusing service to all sinners. Somehow I feel that if an adulterous couple came to the same baker asking for a cake that celebrated their adultery the baker would have refused that as well, I therefore do not see any hypocrisy in the action. As I recall the baker was happy to bake them a cake, just not have anything to do with catering nor place the top piece of two men upon it. I may be wrong on the last part but remember reading something to that effect.

          • June 6, 2018 at 2:44 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            You may be right, mrbob, and that is a valid critique of my post.

            I honestly feel like the couple was looking to pick a fight as much as they were looking for equality. Sometimes, picking a fight is the right thing to do (Brown v. Board of Education, Lunch counter sit-ins, crossing the bridge in Selma) to push the overton window more the side of justice and equality. I understand the baker’s religious convictions, I really, truly do.

            But the moment you go into business to serve people buying wedding cakes, I think you open yourself up to being held to a standard of equality. If he would make and sell a cake but not attend, help with, or place two grooms on top, state that up front in a written policy, but make sure you also state that those items will be made available so that the customer can do so.

            Minorities and other maligned groups in the US should be protected, otherwise individual rights for minorities will continue to be trampled.

      • June 5, 2018 at 5:34 pm
        mr opinion says:
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        Agent – Our constitution protects your God-given right to hold that belief. That is why this is the greatest country on Earth…that you are free from persecution because of what you believe. It’s truly amazing. That said, don’t we both tell snowflakes that “facts don’t care about your feelings”? Don’t we tell them that just because something offends them, doesn’t mean they have the right to impose their belief on others? Our country protects your right to believe what you want and practice whatever religion you want free from persecution. The moment you use that freedom as justification to deny or impede others’ the pursuit of happiness you are letting your feelings supersede your love of freedom. We tell snowflakes freedom does not mean you are free from the things you don’t like. It means you are free express (not impose) your thoughts. That expression can not include a denial to others. Refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding is no different than a college refusing to let Ben Shapiro on their campus to speak. It’s going to offend someone. Well I’ll tell the college, and I’ll tell you…tough. In a truly free society people are going to do/say things you do not like and do not approve of. The greatest test of a true American is to fight for the right of someone to do/say something that makes you cringe. You cannot impose God’s law my friend. He is omnipotent. He doesn’t need your help. Pray for them if you want, if that’s what your religion teaches. But hang a sign outside your window saying “no gays allowed” and even being a straight man, I’ll still see you in court. And don’t try to nit-pick at the differences in my analogy. I know it has holes. The point being made is this…let other people do whatever they want and they will let you do whatever you want. “Your right to throw a punch stops at another mans nose.” “I deplore what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it.” Lets keep our society that simple and freedom is preserved. Cut away at it based on your own personal beliefs and you are just another snowflake.

        • June 5, 2018 at 6:24 pm
          integrity matters says:
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          Mr Opinion,

          I agree with virtually everything you said. However, there is one point that you seem to be missing.

          Forcing the cake baker to bake the cake is infringing upon his Constitutional right to exercise his Freedom of Religion. In your same words, the gay couple doesn’t have the right to impose their beliefs on the cake baker. So when individual’s rights conflict with another persons rights, who should win?

          Our framers considered the rights in the first amendment as inalienable and given to us by God and not the government. The other rights in the Constitution were given to us by the government because we were citizens of this great country. Do you think it is coincidence that the first line of the first amendment pertains to the freedom of religion?

          I will stand with you to fight for every persons right to exercise their rights, especially their inalienable rights.

    • June 5, 2018 at 1:42 pm
      sal says:
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      Agent–

      If any of your children were homosexual, would you still love them?

      • June 5, 2018 at 1:50 pm
        Jack says:
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        sal- of course you would still love your children. It’s just like you continue to love them after every other dumb decision they make. But you are not going to make their wedding cake and probably not show up to their wedding or pay for it. But that does not mean you don’t love them.

        • June 5, 2018 at 1:56 pm
          Cut the Bias says:
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          Wow.

        • June 5, 2018 at 1:56 pm
          sal says:
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          I’d not only show up to their wedding and pay for it, I’d be happy to walk them down the aisle. They are my flesh and blood, would be in a consenting, loving relationship, hurting nobody, and I would be proud of them.

    • June 5, 2018 at 1:43 pm
      Things That Make You Go Hmmm says:
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      Explain how Adam & Eve’s children went forth and multiplied. Something’s in the bible just do not make sense.

    • June 5, 2018 at 2:25 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Umm, it’s natural, Agent. In every sexually-active animal kingdom you will find homosexuality. Completely natural.

      • June 5, 2018 at 3:21 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
        Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        • June 5, 2018 at 3:25 pm
          Cut the Bias says:
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          Amazing. Nearly everything you wrote here is either a lie or a misconception.

          Bravo.

        • June 6, 2018 at 12:58 pm
          Agent says:
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          Craig, if we leave them alone for about 30 years, they will die off and won’t be a problem.

          • June 6, 2018 at 1:29 pm
            Ron says:
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            Because that’s what Jesus would want. (end sarcasm)

          • June 6, 2018 at 1:51 pm
            FFA says:
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            Well,,,, you do need a woman to reproduce.

          • June 6, 2018 at 1:59 pm
            sal says:
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            hopefully, so will racists and homophobes.

        • June 6, 2018 at 2:17 pm
          sal says:
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          Craig–

          Is there such a thing as a “straight gene”? I’m not trolling you, I’m serious. I’ve never heard of a “straight gene” if it exists.

          • June 6, 2018 at 2:34 pm
            Cut the Bias says:
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            I think famed movie critc Gene Shalit is a straight gene. ;)

            With a stash and fro like he had, it was pretty obvious.

          • June 6, 2018 at 3:49 pm
            sal says:
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            Craig–

            As usual, thanks for your response. Much respect to you.

      • June 12, 2018 at 3:37 pm
        Agent says:
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        Completely unnatural when it comes to human beings and a terrible sin. Do you not have any morals at all? Not likely.

  • June 5, 2018 at 2:00 pm
    Joe says:
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    That’s the hypocrisy of taking the bible literally, if Adam & Eve’s children multiplied, that would be incest, wouldn’t it? You can’t have it both ways!

  • June 5, 2018 at 2:13 pm
    Ron says:
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    To anyone citing the Bible as support for a legal position, please see the 1st Amendment and try again.

    Oh wait, there is no other support.

  • June 5, 2018 at 2:14 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    Today’s Supreme Court Decision: President Trump ordered to bake a cake for the Eagles.

  • June 5, 2018 at 2:28 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    I am so glad homophobia is part of a dying demographic. The sentiments I am reading out here are simply disgusting. Way more disgusting than a man loving a man or a woman loving a woman. With or without wedding cakes.

    • June 6, 2018 at 10:21 am
      sal says:
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      You do realize there ARE actually gay conservative republicans, right? Do they not count in your book?

      Your version of conservatism is what gives it a bad name, and one of the reasons I switched my party affiliation to Independent (Trump being the number one reason, of course).

      • June 6, 2018 at 10:49 am
        Cut the Bias says:
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        His brand of conservatism = fascism and whatever else the party says it is. All they want to do is destroy the federal government and stick it to liberals, as evidenced by thousands of posts by Agent, Polar, and Bobbo here over the past few years. The moment their arguments fall flat, they abandon the topic and move to the next one, repeating the same invalid and unproven opinions as if they were fact for the umpteenth time.

        I left the party when Romney took center stage. I never thought it could get as bad as Trump, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and other enablers of our own destruction.

    • June 6, 2018 at 12:56 pm
      Agent says:
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      I am so glad we have Senator Grasley from the great State of Iowa doing the right thing for America.

      • June 6, 2018 at 1:45 pm
        Cut the Bias says:
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        I am proud of you for making that comment, Agent. I will go ahead and add one thumbs up to your self-congratulatory wank posts. :)

        I wish I knew you personally because you are a fascinating personality type, if nothing else.

        • June 6, 2018 at 2:36 pm
          Cut the Bias says:
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          LOL! The system (or site, whatever) actually deleted my thumbs-up and greyed out the ability to thumbs-up you again.

          The site knows any positive vibes on that dung heap is obviously in a mocking tone and has seen fit to prevent that from happening.

          Unless, of course, they just deleted your self-congratulatory thumb… lol either way

  • June 5, 2018 at 2:45 pm
    Cut the Bias says:
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    Mayday! Mayday!! We are off the rails here!

    Dude, your opinions are disgusting. I presume you are either 60+ years old, or live in a cave. This isn’t about a dude going out and knowingly spreading AIDS around. This is about 2 adults who love each other want to get married, not hurt anyone, and enjoy the same equality that straight people do.

    • June 5, 2018 at 5:03 pm
      Jack says:
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      sal- ” and generally homosexuals say they’ve known since birth ”

      what a joke!

    • June 5, 2018 at 6:04 pm
      helpingout says:
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      Jack,
      how is that a joke? I know many who knew since they were very young as I knew I was attracted to the opposite sex, the main difference was I was accepted and they were forced to pretend to be straight for their parents. Your biased views are very apparent by believing it a joke.

  • June 7, 2018 at 11:23 am
    sal says:
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    Agent–try and associate with people outside your comfort zone some time. I challenge you. You’ll see that the world is not all in black in white, but several shades of gray in between. Every person and situation is different. There are a lot of GOOD people out there with different religions, political beliefs, sexual orientations, etc. Calling someone a “lost soul” because you disagree with them doesn’t make you a conservative (OR a liberal), it makes you ignorant.

    Even Tomi Lahren said that she’s “at the point where she’d rather hang out with decent people who disagree with (her) politically than someone who shares (her) political beliefs but is a cr@p human being.” (source: @TomiLahren Twitter posting, June 2)

    • June 7, 2018 at 11:58 am
      Cut the Bias says:
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      Hear, hear!

      If we all did that, the world would be a better place.

      • June 7, 2018 at 2:39 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        Including religious bakers who don’t want to custom-bake cakes for a gay wedding?

        Or do we try not to associate with same?

        • June 7, 2018 at 2:46 pm
          sal says:
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          never personally met one. If they’re all in all a good person, I would associate with them.

          • June 7, 2018 at 3:14 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Love the sentiment about associating with people outside of our comfort zone.

            Do you know how many people who support gay marriage have asked me why I think the way I do? Zero. 100% jump right to the “homophobia” nonsense.

            So, yes, I like the advice.

          • June 7, 2018 at 3:20 pm
            Agent says:
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            sal, would you meet an LGBTQ guy at the local Gay bar to associate with him?

          • June 7, 2018 at 3:24 pm
            Ron says:
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            Craig,

            Please let me know what your legal basis is to oppose one set of 2 consenting adults to enter into the exact same legal contract as a different set of 2 consenting adults.

            Feel free to cite the Constitution if possible.

          • June 7, 2018 at 3:27 pm
            sal says:
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            So now it’s 99%. I don’t think you’re homophobic or racist. You’ve explained your position very clearly and articulately. It is a shame that many are quick to play the racist, homophobe, and leftist cards without taking the time to genuinely LISTEN and find some common ground.

            Sorry, I know you hate all the “kumbaya” talk, but as I said, I do respect you for engaging civilly..

          • June 7, 2018 at 3:35 pm
            sal says:
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            Agent–

            Sure. I’m not one for bars of any sort, but I’m confident enough in my sexuality so I wouldn’t feel threatened by others who were slightly different than me.

            Craig has mentioned that he even has gay friends who were fantastic people…guess he’s not a conservative in your eyes anymore, right?

            If you notice, I answered your question directly and did not suddenly cut and run, as you love to do. It’s called “having a discussion.”

        • June 7, 2018 at 3:17 pm
          Agent says:
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          Craig, I think I will associate with people like the Baker, not the nasty LGBTQ crowd who want to sue, force people out of business to further their agenda.

          • June 7, 2018 at 3:47 pm
            sal says:
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            Agent–
            Now I’m 99% sure you’re a parody account. The statements you’ve made on this board over the years make Archie Bunker sound like Mahatma Gandhi.

            Well played, sir!

  • June 7, 2018 at 4:07 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    See Ron’s comment above. Confirms the “open, tolerant and understanding” superiority of the left. (Just ask them!)

    My position has NOTHING to do with the Constitution. But thanks for not asking.

    • June 7, 2018 at 4:24 pm
      confused says:
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      “My position has NOTHING to do with the Constitution.” I think we can all agree with that … but isn’t our country a Constitutional Republic bound by the rules and laws of our Constitution and not what’s in the bible?

      • June 7, 2018 at 4:52 pm
        Elephant says:
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        I know, right. They have the gall to think that all men are created equal…

    • June 7, 2018 at 4:54 pm
      Cut the Bias says:
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      Please, Craig, why don’t you tell us why you don’t think gay people deserve the same societal benefits as straight people? If it has nothing to do with homophobia or the constitution.

      You have us on the edge of our seats…

      • June 13, 2018 at 11:53 am
        Agent says:
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        Biased, why don’t you tell us why you don’t seem to know right from wrong? You have us on the edge of our seats.

        • June 13, 2018 at 1:06 pm
          helpingout says:
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          Mike,
          I would say it is more of a personal issue that you have a problem with Bias’ opinion on the subject. Judging someone for that and saying that they do not know right from wrong is illogical because you were clearly raised differently. Respect their opinion even if you do not agree, or the way you are reacting and responding will make you less respectable. Again you seem to be a christian but you are having a problem loving your neighbors (which in the bible referred to any other person on this earth.

          • June 15, 2018 at 3:54 pm
            Agent says:
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            nothelping, I have not the time or the crayons to explain to you. The Progressive mind looks at everything backward from everyone who knows right from wrong. Maybe that explains the downward spiral in public opinion Progressives suffer from. I do have plenty of friends and neighbors, family who I love and respect. I just can’t abide the arrogant leftists who think Conservatives aren’t smart and their opinions on matters are illogical. Looks like we are doing very well against the Progressives these days.



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