Hurricane Florence’s Surge Is Expected to Hit Homes That Already Cost the Government Millions: ProPublica

By Lisa Song, ProPublica and Al Shaw, ProPublica | September 18, 2018

  • September 18, 2018 at 1:36 pm
    jack says:
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    • September 18, 2018 at 1:50 pm
      Dave says:
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      No, that’s why you buy insurance in the open market, not at government and taxpayer subsidized rates. Not only does this unfairly burden taxpayers, it encourages people to build where they should not further burdening the taxpayers. If market rates were charged to these people, they would find it uneconomically feasible to rebuild in these flood zones. Bet you never took a basic economics course, did you?

      • September 18, 2018 at 1:58 pm
        JACK says:
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      • September 18, 2018 at 1:59 pm
        Jack says:
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      • September 18, 2018 at 2:06 pm
        Jack says:
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        • September 18, 2018 at 2:29 pm
          Dave says:
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          Jack, are you a Socialist?

        • September 18, 2018 at 2:35 pm
          Dave says:
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          As an economic illiterate you obviously do not understand that when a tax supported non-incentivized government entity enters a market at far below market rates, nobody else tries to compete. Get the government out of that market and plenty of players will jump in at a market based price. And if there are areas they refuse to insure because of the risk, that is an area one shouldn’t be building in. Self-correcting problem. A concept that a Socialist and economic illiterate cannot comprehend.

          • September 18, 2018 at 2:41 pm
            Jack says:
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    • September 18, 2018 at 1:56 pm
      Jack says:
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  • September 18, 2018 at 1:50 pm
    mrbob says:
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    Jack,
    Although I agree the purpose of insurance is to spread risk among a large group of similar risks there comes a point where paying to rebuild a structure without forcing the remediation of the underlying cause of loss is akin to doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome. It just does not fly in the face of logic.

    Do I feel for the individuals that live in these areas the rules for development need to be changed and the flood insurance premiums like all other high risk pools need to be actuarially sound. If as a society we want to help people who cannot afford to just leave there current home in a severe flood plain that is fine but to continue to support the rebuilding of homes in areas that the history has shown will certainly flood over and over again is lunacy at it’s finest.

    Insurance Jack is not in place to cover every risk that mankind faces a pricing that does not support the underlying reality of the risk. Why does commercial insurance carriers not over flood? The answer is simple the rates that they will need are far greater than what the FEMA socialist program of flood insurance will offer.

    • September 18, 2018 at 2:01 pm
      Jack says:
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      • September 18, 2018 at 2:23 pm
        mrbob says:
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        Jack,
        There are certainly mitigation steps that can be taken. Although many are not reasonable or desirable they would include:
        Raising of structures
        Building of earthen dikes higher than historic flood levels
        Moving the structure to higher ground
        Temporary inflatable dike structures.
        The best alternative though for structures in historic flood zones would be to buy the owner out demolish the structure and allow no further development on the property.
        Again it does not make sense to continue to restore property to the tune of multiples of ACV, to do so would be as insane as allowing new structures in hurricane prone areas without requiring proper wind tie down, we need to learn from history or we are doomed to repeat it.

        • September 18, 2018 at 3:30 pm
          CarrierGuy says:
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          mrbob, I would agree with most of what you said, and just take exception to the part about “allow no further development on the property.” I’m fine with people making an individual free choice to build there – but let’s not have taxpayers on the hook to provide them with below-market-rate insurance. If they can find someone to sell them coverage at an actuarially sound rate, great. If not, they can self-insure – and accept the risk.

          • September 18, 2018 at 6:27 pm
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
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            I agree with this approach, but so few people would be so dumb to pay the prohibitively high actuarial rates that would result when the pool of such risks shrinks to a very small size after most people vacate the area.

    • September 18, 2018 at 2:03 pm
      Jack says:
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      • September 18, 2018 at 2:29 pm
        mrbob says:
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        Jack,
        I do not write flood as I am not a retail agent but it does not take a flood expert to understand that in our country we have bailed people out over and over again who choose to live/develop in flood plains. I can state I do not carry flood as I choose to live in an area with very low potential for flood occurrence-I checked the maps prior to purchasing the home by the way. I also do not carry quake coverage for the same reason. Are these covers available certainly but I make a conscious decision in my personal risk management to self insure the hazard as the CBA for me does not add up in support of purchase.

        • September 18, 2018 at 3:06 pm
          Jack says:
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          • September 18, 2018 at 6:29 pm
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
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            Yes, flood plains and flood maps change. But the high risk of a flood does not disappear from many such flood plains. One could also refute your point by challenging you to determine the net overall average rate that occurs when the risk of floods shifts zip codes, up or down.

  • September 18, 2018 at 2:16 pm
    JACK says:
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    “The storm is pummeling coastal towns that are battling rising sea levels and have been repeatedly bailed out by federal flood insurance.”

    Sea levels are rising? Really? Then why is FEMA, yes I said FEMA taking homes out of VE zones on the beach and putting them in AE flood zones and lowering BFE’s on the same properties?

    I know those question are going to go right over most of your heads given you wouldn’t know a BFE from a WTF.

    • September 18, 2018 at 2:40 pm
      SWFL Agent says:
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      My goodness Jack, please remove any sharp instruments from your desk before you hurt yourself. I think by now we get it – you’re some type of flood savant that writes flood policies where others don’t. Got news for you. Yes, I have a flood policy on my home, including an excess policy and yes my offices & staff members write lots of NFIP and private flood policies. Once you learn it, it’s really not that hard so before you knock yourself out, I recommend you quit beating your chest.

      • September 18, 2018 at 2:47 pm
        JACK says:
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    • September 18, 2018 at 2:42 pm
      mrbob says:
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      My only guess would be to improperly lower the rate for the structure therefor making the rate even more actuarially unsound. If you can figure out the logic in why federal agencies do what they do you are a far more intelligent man than I.

      • September 19, 2018 at 5:50 pm
        PolarBeaRepeal says:
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        Federal agencies do what they must to survive; i.e. they operate to pay benefits to those who will (re)elect them to office. Their symbiotic relationship enables both parties to survive and thrive economically.

  • September 18, 2018 at 2:40 pm
    Property nerd says:
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    The bigger question is the tax dollars spent on properties that DON’T have flood insurance. That is never reported.

    • September 18, 2018 at 2:53 pm
      Jack says:
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      Property nerd- Bingo!!! And you know why that’s not reported!

    • September 18, 2018 at 4:18 pm
      Jack says:
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      Prop nerd- Disaster Assistance Available from FEMA- How much of this is paid by a flood policy when you actually purchase coverage? Here’s why FEMA is $20bil in the red, it aint becuase of people that pay premiums.

      This page contains information on different types of assistance that can be available during a Federally Declared Disaster Declaration.

      All sections expanded. Click to collapse all sectionsCollapse All Sections
      This section is Expanded. Click to CollapseHousing Needs
      Temporary Housing (a place to live for a limited period of time): Financial assistance may be available to homeowners or renters to rent a different place to live, or assistance can be a government provided housing unit when rental properties are not available. Search for information about housing rental resources.

      Lodging Expenses Reimbursement: Reimbursement of hotel expenses for homeowners or renters may be available for short periods of time due to inaccessibility or utility outage if not covered by insurance or any other program.

      Repair: Financial assistance may be available to homeowners to repair damage from the disaster to their primary residence that is not covered by insurance. The goal is to make the damaged home safe, sanitary, and functional.

      Replacement: Financial assistance may be available to homeowners to replace their home destroyed in the disaster that is not covered by insurance. The goal is to help the homeowner with the cost of replacing their destroyed home.

      Permanent or Semi-Permanent Housing Construction: Direct assistance or money for the construction of a home. This type of help occurs only in insular areas or other locations specified by FEMA, where no other type of housing assistance is possible.

      What specific items are covered by “Housing Needs” assistance?
      Do I qualify for “Housing Needs” Assistance?

      This section is Expanded. Click to CollapseOther Than Housing Needs
      Money is available for necessary expenses and serious needs caused by the disaster. This includes:

      Disaster-related child care expenses.

      Disaster-related medical and dental expenses.

      Disaster-related funeral and burial expenses.

      Disaster-related damages to essential household items (room furnishings, appliances); clothing; tools (specialized or protective clothing and equipment) required for your job; necessary educational materials (computers, school books, supplies).

      Fuels for primary heat source (heating oil, gas).

      Clean-up items (wet/dry vacuum, dehumidifier).

      Disaster-related damage to an essential vehicle.

      Moving and storage expenses related to the disaster (moving and storing property to avoid additional disaster damage while disaster-related repairs are being made to the home).

      Other necessary expenses or serious needs as determined by FEMA.

      Other expenses that are authorized by law.

      Do I qualify for “Other than Housing Needs” Assistance?

      This section is Expanded. Click to CollapseAdditional Services
      Crisis Counseling
      Disaster Unemployment Assistance
      Legal Services
      Special Tax Considerations

    • September 18, 2018 at 6:24 pm
      PolarBeaRepeal says:
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      It’s never reported on Fake News media stations. Try alternatives, which will often give such stats that act to discredit Big Govt and enlighten voters about the adverse selection ‘scam’.

  • September 18, 2018 at 6:21 pm
    PolarBeaRepeal says:
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    @Jack; If I burn down my house, will you beforehand promise in a signed contract to pay in full to rebuild it for me? If I then again burn it down, will you again agree in writing to pay to rebuild it for me? OK, thanks; that’s all I needed to ask to know whether or not you’re a Socialist hypocrite looking for a government handout.

    PS: did you notice you’re getting more down votes than up votes? What does that tell you?

    • September 19, 2018 at 1:17 pm
      Jack says:
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      Polarbear- Did they flood their houses? Maybe you should read a policy every now and then to see that intentional acts are not covered. So if “I” burn down my house it’s not covered anyway.

      PS: notice how your example is idiotic and you got thumbs up from other idiots? What does that tell you?

      • September 19, 2018 at 1:26 pm
        Jack says:
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        Polarbear- PS I’m the biggest capitalist pig small business owner you see on here. I make a big FAT comm selling flood insurance. FEMA and private market. You think I don’t want FEMA to raise premiums on one hand to make more comm on what I do for a living? It affords me a very nice lifestyle on the coast of SC. What gets under my skin is anyone on here thinking the government can fix what the government screwed up to begin with. You want to fix FEMA? Stop the handouts! Until they do that, stop the bitching about people getting paid for damage from a policy they purchased at a price set by the person selling it.

      • September 19, 2018 at 5:52 pm
        PolarBeaRepeal says:
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        Nope; those hypocrite didn’t need to flood their house; it was almost inevitable that Mother Nature would take care of that matter…. based on past history of flooding being an accurate predictor.

  • September 21, 2018 at 1:54 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    I just hope all these hurricane victims are having a good time like the prez keeps telling them to. Yep, house is in ruins, hungry/tired/thirsty, kids are a mess, family is in shambles, but hey, we’re having a good time. Thumbs up!

    • September 21, 2018 at 2:14 pm
      Rosenblatt says:
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      If only they had some paper towels … am I right? :D

      • September 21, 2018 at 2:41 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        Exactly, Rosenblatt. Maybe they can use the paper towels to absorb their flood issues. Clown Shoes is not just the name of a brewery, know what I’m saying?



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