Legalizing Marijuana will not create a massive influx of marijuana impaired drivers on our roads.
It will not create an influx of professionals (doctors, pilots, bus drivers, etc..) under the influence on the job either.
This is a prohibitionist propaganda scare tactic.
Truth: Responsible drivers don’t drive while impaired on any substance period!
Irresponsible drivers are already on our roads, and they will drive while impaired regardless of their drug of choice’s legality.
Therefore, legalizing marijuana will have little impact on the amount of marijuana impaired drivers on our roads.
The same thing applies to people being under the influence of marijuana on the job.
Responsible people do not go to work impaired, period. Regardless of their drug of choice’s legality.
There is absolutely no doubt now that the majority of Americans want to completely legalize marijuana nationwide. Our numbers grow on a daily basis.
The prohibitionist view on marijuana is the viewpoint of a minority and rapidly shrinking percentage of Americans. It is based upon decades of lies and propaganda.
Each and every tired old lie they have propagated has been thoroughly proven false by both science and society.
Their tired old rhetoric no longer holds any validity. The vast majority of Americans have seen through the sham of marijuana prohibition in this day and age. The number of prohibitionists left shrinks on a daily basis.
With their credibility shattered, and their not so hidden agendas visible to a much wiser public, what’s left for a marijuana prohibitionist to do?
Maybe, just come to terms with the fact that Marijuana Legalization Nationwide is an inevitable reality that’s approaching much sooner than prohibitionists think, and there is nothing they can do to stop it!
Legalize Nationwide!…and Support All Marijuana Legalization Efforts!
Propaganda generated by the notoriously and vehemently vocal anti-marijuana prohibitionist auto-insurance industry which has been trying to spread fear and panic over marijuana legalization from the very beginning.
What has actually occurred in states that have legalized marijuana is that law enforcement agencies statewide immediately and vigorously began a new policy of testing more drivers than they ever did before legalization occured for residual trace amounts of THC. Which remain detectable in a driver’s system for up to months after consuming marijuana.
This obviously in no way proves actual impairment at the time a driver is pulled over. So for instance, the police get to the scene of a roadside accident with a fatality. The driver at fault, is let’s say for example three times over the legal alcohol BAC limit, but the police also insist on a test for marijuana. Although bear in mind, with a BAC three times over the legal limit for booze and with all the obvious tell-tale signs of impairment, it’s plain for all to immediately see, and know, that alcohol was the drug responsible for this tragedy….
Residual trace amounts of THC are detected in the driver’s system after the police conclude their very specific and intentional policy driven test for those residual trace amounts of THC. A month prior to being pulled over, the driver consumed a little marijuana socially with friends…
Obviously, the joint or two from a month ago had nothing to do with this fatal and tragic accident, but the booze the driver drank at the bar before he got into his car that very same night most certainly did.
Law enforcement now marks off this accident as another marijuana “INVOLVED” fatality in order to bolster their bogus statistics.
Prohibitionists always use terms like “INVOLVED” , “RELATED” or “LINKED” when they tout these horrific sounding statistics and claims. Because they can’t ever prove marijuana impairment alone to be the actual “CAUSE”.
In states that have now legalized marijuana, when you get pulled over for speeding or even anything at all, law enforcement policy will automatically also require that the police administer that very same test for residual trace amounts of THC from up to months prior to being pulled over. Which again, in no way proves impairment whatsoever and then the results are added on as just another one of their bogus marijuana “INVOLVED/RELATED”/LINKED” statistics.
This is nothing more than merely another prohibitionist scare tactic. The goal being to frighten and alarm the public back into the strict prohibition of marijuana.
Well guess what? The public isn’t buying it and everyone sees the deceit by ever more desperate prohibitionist zealots. Hell-bent on keeping marijuana illegal. So, the public is already well aware that when such claims are made about marijuana “INVOLVED/RELATED/LINKED” deaths, they are flat out lies!
Nobody is so gullible as to believe these utterly nonsense prohibitionist claims of massive amounts of new marijuana impaired drivers.
Now, I challenge all anti-marijuana prohibitionist types publicly yet again:
Please provide us proof of just one single roadway fatality proven one hundred percent to have been “CAUSED” (Not “INVOLVED/ Not “RELATED”/Not “LINKED”) by marijuana impairment and only marijuana impairment, alone.
The public is waiting for prohibitionists to provide indisputable proof of just one such death “CAUSED” directly and solely by marijuana impairment, alone. Just one. (Not even the massive influx prohibitionists claim. Just one.)
We’ll wait….and wait…and wait….While we all know they simply can’t. Because it’s all just propaganda, lies, and scare-tactics.
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I see you recruited several stoners to censor those whose opinions and credible medical studies contradict your opinion. Good luck with your cognitive powers in the near future!
The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
December 30, 2018 at 7:28 am
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“Marijuana is 114 times safer than drinking alcohol”
“Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say”
“Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say New study: We should stop fighting marijuana legalization and focus on alcohol and tobacco instead By Christopher Ingraham February 23
Compared with other recreational drugs — including alcohol — marijuana may be even safer than previously thought. And researchers may be systematically underestimating risks associated with alcohol use.
Those are the top-line findings of recent research published in the journal Scientific Reports, a subsidiary of Nature. Researchers sought to quantify the risk of death associated with the use of a variety of commonly used substances. They found that at the level of individual use, alcohol was the deadliest substance, followed by heroin and cocaine.”
-washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/23/marijuana-may-be-even-safer-than-previously-thought-researchers-say/
“The report discovered that marijuana is 114 times less deadly than alcohol. Researchers were able to determine this by comparing the lethal doses with the amount of typical use. Through this approach, marijuana had the lowest mortality risk to users out of all the drugs they studied. In fact—because the numbers were crossed with typical daily use—marijuana is the only drug that tested as “low risk.”
I love Pot Heads. Just love them. Continuing to compare one bad thing with another and then claiming how righteous it is to embrace the lesser bad thing. Logic only a Pot Head could love.
Meanwhile, completely lying about the increase in traffic deaths that are reported on IN THE ARTICLE.
Hear No Evil. See No Evil. Hilarious.
Like commenting after an article about marijuana addiction that there is no such thing as marijuana addiction. Or commenting after an article that connects pot and higher rates of mental illness that there is no such thing as pot-connected mental illness.
The Denial is just hilarious.
Logic: Legalize all pharmaceutical drugs. After all, they are less harmful than alcohol. Duh.
Craig, you’re dead on. Responsible people will be responsible is his argument. Yep, because everyone that died from drug related deaths or alcohol were dead beats, worthless, scum bag type people. I guess Michael Jackson had nothing to live for and other famous and non-famous people. Drugs affect every group of people out there. From the poor to the rich. They try it once because it might be fun and then again and again. Not many people walk into the bar the first time and say, “Hey, I want to become an alcoholic and ruin my life and maybe kill someone.” Pot can be used as a gateway drug and it’s harmful to children. Legalizing should not occur. Maybe for medicinal use, but that’s it. Anything beyond that and you’ll not only see traffic accidents increased as well as emergency room visits, but you’ll see more children going to the ER as well for accidental ingestion.
The “Gateway Myth” has been proven false over and over again. Correlation doesn’t equal causation.
If prohibitionists really want to protect families from a drug proven to destroy lives and families, then they should be up in arms, protesting the legality of booze.
Alcohol is the drug that causes the most traffic fatalities, domestic violence, and overall detriment to society by a huge landslide. More so than all other drugs, combined.
Why doesn’t that concern you prohibitionists even more? It should.
“Marijuana Is Gateway Drug” Theory Debunked, Again
-opposingviews.co…
“Marijuana a “Gateway” Drug? Scientists Call Theory Half-Baked”
-cbsnews.com/news…
In Long Beach, California there is a very large rehabilitation facility that serves many people who are on parole, many on probation, and some with HIV.
The Executive Administrator laughs at people like you who talk about pot not being a gateway drug. She points out that over 90% of all cocains and heroin addicts first started with pot. She lives it, unlike you, who are just out to try to sell drugs that you consume yourself.
She estimates that 30% of the people who come to her facility have marijuana as their primary problem. Those are people who have let down their kids, their spouses, their friends and many others because of pot.
Keep on lying, B. Kelly. Keep it up. The THC is ruining your brain.
December 28, 2018 at 7:45 pm
Brian Kelly says:
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Regarding “The Children”,
Let’s not use “The Children” as an excuse to prohibit and criminalize adult use of a natural plant far less dangerous than perfectly legal alcohol because nobody condones child use, and this is about allowing adults only to choose marijuana.
It’s our responsibility as parents by to educate our children on drug use. It’s not the government’s job to force Draconian Marijuana Laws upon every adult citizen under the guise of protecting “The Children”.
What message are we sending our children when it is easier for them to obtain marijuana now with it being illegal than it is for them to buy alcohol?
It doesn’t take the intellect of a genius to understand that stores card kids for I.D. Thugs and gang members do not. They also push the real hard drugs on children. Stores do not.
Marijuana legalization will make it harder for children to obtain it.
What message does it send our children when the President of The United States himself alongside a long list of successful people openly admit regular pot use at one time or another in their lives?
While we tell our kids how it will ruin their futures, and then ensure so, by allowing our government to to jail our children and give them permanent criminal records when they get caught with a little Marijuana. Especially, if they are the wrong skin color or from the “wrong neighborhood”. Which in turn, ruins their chances of employment for life.
The Prohibition of Marijuana is the wrong message to send our children while we glorify, advertise and promote the much more dangerous use of alcohol like it’s an all American pastime.
The worst thing about marijuana and our children is what happens to them when they get caught up in the criminal justice system due to it’s prohibition.
Protect “The Children” and Our Neighborhoods Through The Legalization and Regulation of Marijuana Nationwide!
” Marijuana Use Doesn’t Actually Change The Structure Of Your Brain, New Study Finds
This is your brain on marijuana…and it looks pretty much the same as the brains of non-users.
That’s essentially what researchers concluded after comparing the brain morphology of 140 cannabis consumers and 121 people in a control group. Contrary to most previous research on the subject, they found marijuana use had “no significant effects on cortical surface morphology.”
The new study, published last week in the journal European Neuropsychopharmacology, sought to identify any differences in cortical thickness, surface area and gyrification index between people who use cannabis and those who don’t. The three factors are generally related to cognitive function.
Via European Neuropsychopharmacology.
MRI scans turned up no evidence of significant differences, though. Researchers also found that people who were classified as dependent on marijuana or started using it at an early age didn’t experience changes in cortical surface brain morphology.
“While regular cannabis use has been associated with altered cortical morphology, previous findings have not been consistent in terms of the direction or region of alteration, which included increase, decrease, and lack of change in cortical morphology, across all four cortical lobes.”
“Here, we comprehensively examined cortical thickness, surface area, and gyrification index in relation to cannabis use, dependence, and onset age, across the whole cortex, and demonstrated no significant effects on cortical surface morphology.”
It’s not entirely clear why previous studies have reached fundamentally disparate conclusions about cannabis and brain morphology, but the researchers involved in the current paper said their analytic approach was especially comprehensive.
While cannabis use isn’t associated with cortical surface morphology, according to the study, the team said it’s still possible that marijuana causes changes “at the network or molecular level.”
-European Neuropsychopharmacology
December 28, 2018 at 8:27 pm
Craig Cornell says:
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Your entire argument falls apart when today’s San Diego Union Tribune reports a GROWING black market after legalization in California.
But don’t let facts get in the way of your high, man. (Dave’s not here.)
December 30, 2018 at 8:54 am
PolarBeaRepeal says:
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Euro Neuro is biased in its work due to the source of its funding.
December 29, 2018 at 11:16 am
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I see you recruited several stoners to censor those whose opinions and credible medical studies contradict your opinion. Good luck with your cognitive powers in the near future!
The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
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Key point #1 from the article:
“Driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal in all 50 states and D.C., but determining impairment is challenging. Unlike alcohol, the amount of marijuana present in a person’s body doesn’t consistently relate to impairment. THC, or Tetrahydrocannabinol, is the primary psychoactive component of cannabis. A positive test for THC and its active metabolite doesn’t mean the driver was impaired at the time of the crash. Habitual users of marijuana may have positive blood tests for THC days or weeks after using the drug.”
I’m against MJ legalization (beyond medical) but if they do it I think there should be zero-tolerance for those who test positive for THC *until* they have something to prove impairment.
For those who support it, what do you think, other than “give ’em all a pass” because that’s the gist of what I’ve seen. (I.e., “we have no way to measure impairment” but don’t give any suggestion as to how we should deal with it, *implying* we should give MJ a total free pass.)
A field sobriety test, similar to one given for suspected drunk drivers but tweaked to focus on how marijuana impairs your cognitive ability – something akin to CA’s marijuana FST – should be administered. A refusal of a FST should be an automatic suspension of your license.
Unfortunately, unlike alcohol, there’s not a linear connection between levels of the drug in your system and how inebriated you may be, so taking blood work or things of that ilk are totally useless to determine if someone was DUI on marijuana until someone gets rich by coming up with the first real-time marijuana “breathalyzer.”
The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
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Determining impairment is obvious to those who can eliminate the presence of alcohol or prescript drugs. The remaining possible sources of impairment ARE ILLEGAL. Shrouding the drug in the bloodstream or brain cortex doesn’t prevent indirect determination of its usage.
And key point #2:
Tn researchers note that marijuana’s role in crashes isn’t as clear as the link between alcohol and crashes. Many states don’t include consistent information on driver drug use in crash reports, and policies and procedures for drug testing are inconsistent. More drivers in crashes are tested for alcohol than for drugs. When drivers are tested, other drugs are often found in combination with alcohol, which makes it difficult to isolate their separate effects.
Name calling and stereotyping. It’s all that prohibitionists have left to offer society since virtually every piece of marijuana propaganda out there has been thoroughly debunked, and completely dismissed by a smarter than prohibitionists thought public.
Nobody can provide a real reason to continue the “War on Marijuana” because there isn’t one.
You know, a little live and let live goes a real long way towards ensuring a very long, stress and anger free life.
If somebody doesn’t approve of marijuana, then by all means, that person shouldn’t consume marijuana. Nobody is ever going to force anybody to consume marijuana that doesn’t desire to. Plain and simple. Problem solved.
Let’s allow other hard-working, tax paying adults to make their own choices about marijuana.
The government has no business attempting to legislate morality by creating victim-less marijuana “crimes” because it simply doesn’t work and has already cost the taxpayers a fortune.
Regarding your brain studies: brain scans are notoriously limited. You can’t prove someone has alzheimers until after death during an autopsy of the brain. You can’t prove someone has CTE until death. You can’t prove a whole LOT of things until after death.
And I find it revealing you didn’t link to your “study”. Let’s have it.
My guess: you’re scared about what your brain looks like after all that THC you put in there.
December 28, 2018 at 8:33 pm
Craig Cornell says:
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While cannabis use isn’t associated with cortical surface morphology, according to the study, the team said it’s still possible that marijuana causes changes “at the network or molecular level.”
-European Neuropsychopharmacology
December 29, 2018 at 11:22 am
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The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
December 30, 2018 at 7:33 am
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December 30, 2018 at 8:53 am
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Note: a response by IJ to your BOTs will occur soon.
December 29, 2018 at 11:17 am
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growing elderly population….also in ALL states, and compared to states no one is rushing to go retire…..also NO major states used in study and what “controls used and how many in study not revealed….).just saying…..
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Gateway drug, and bad for the children? All the threats we face and cannabis is your concern? The irrational fear and nonsense spewed about this plant are mind-numbingly stupid. You’re worried about “the children” yet you have no concern about the anti-depressants, antipsychotics, sedative-hypnotics, anti-anxiety pills being swallowed on a daily basis? Alcohol, one of the most destructive substances ever that ruins lives each day? No concern there huh? No concern the lack of reliable research with the above-mentioned drugs especially on children? No concern? The absolute myriad of strong reliable research about the healing prowess of this plant, especially out of Israel, and cannabis is what draws your ire? Sad…
In the real world, two contradictory things can be true at the SAME TIME. THC can be horrible for people, especially young people in terms of loss of IQ, loss of motivation, increased risk of mental illness, and increased risk of traffic accidents while high.
And at the SAME TIME, cannabis can have a few legitimate medical uses!
Only in Pot Head land is there no room for both possibilities at the same time.
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How many of the alleged “marijuana involved” accidents were high-speed, head-on crashes with the charged driver going the wrong way on the freeway (none?). That’s alcohol’s trademark accident.
Suspect many are “OMG – I’m SORRY!”, I didn’t see you backing out – let me give you my insurance agent’s name and number – hope I didn’t harsh your entire day!
The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
YOUR SUSPICIONS are NOT SUPPORTED BY ANY DATA. That’s typical of stoners’ arguments for recre-pot.
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No, he doesn’t have that same problem you do. You are the one who intimated he has an argument about propaganda that is politically charged hyperbole. I would be willing to bet $100 that is why he is asking, “WTH are you talking about?”
Back to grammar school, Yogi!
January 3, 2019 at 11:29 am
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December 30, 2018 at 8:51 am
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Nope. I re-posted in reply to use of BOTs to censor those posts. IJ has since removed ALL of the then-existing votes by BOTs used by the stoners to censor opposition. My re-posts were intended to circumvent the censorship by stoners. IJ has addressed the issue and has ‘taken names’ of the offenders.
This piece is literally a guess at causation with no evidence whatsoever that a single driver involved in any of the accidents had actually consumed marijuana. Do better or leave the attempts at deduction of causation to scientists.
Did you read the actual source report? There IS CREDIBLE evidence of increases in accident frequency in states that implemented recre-pot laws. Are you claiming THAT is ‘no evidence whatsoever’? If so, take your case to a jury of independent jurists and wait for their verdict. Let us know how that works out.
No, that’s not what he wrote. He wrote, “This piece is literally a guess at causation with no evidence whatsoever that a single driver involved in any of the accidents had actually consumed marijuana.”
And, as the article points out, :”More drivers in crashes are tested for alcohol than for drugs. When drivers are tested, other drugs are often found in combination with alcohol, which makes it difficult to isolate their separate effects.”
Actually, his statement is an opinion that the study has not proven causation. That opinion is fundamentally true, but there are no requirements that 100% causation is required to take action to prevent deaths or accidents that cause harm or economic loss or loss of work / recreation time. A strong correlation is sufficient for a state insurance department to approve a rating action or underwriting action by an insurance company or the entire insurance industry. Ask an actuary you know to explain the details regarding causation and correlation of accidents; they are not bound to producing evidence of 100% cause & effect relationships. Rather, sufficiently strong correlation is sufficient. We see different degrees of correlation, whereas you are arguing your point on a measure that is not binding by state insurance departments. And, this is an insurance oriented media website.
Deduction: Scientific analysis of THC intoxication proves that it can cause loss of focus and attention that every intelligent person knows can lead to car crashes. Police routinely report finding obviously high THC intoxicated drivers at the scene of car crashes.
Can you provide copies of those reports? I’m interested in how a police officer knows someone is an “obviously high THC intoxicated driver.” I have officers living all around me. We’ve had many discussions about their arrests, drugs, alcohol, robbery, shootings…you name it. When it comes to MJ, they talk about finding the substance itself and if they didn’t, they’d have no idea the person was intoxicated. It’s not as obvious as someone being drunk, after all. Many users hide it well, unless of course they are mixing it with something else like alcohol. Weed usage by itself isn’t as widely obvious as you are suggesting. Especially if the user is an adult.
Why bother. I have presented lots of links to reputable research on the dangers of pot. And you keep on advocating more highway deaths, more young people ruining their lives, more people addicted to pot, and more mental illness caused by THC.
You can easily obtain police blotters in your home town if you pay the copy fees. First, you must identify auto accidents that may be due to recre-pot induced ‘intoxication’. Then, visit your local PD. Tell them you’re there to ‘find no evidence’ that THC increases the probability of an auto accident. Let us know how they reply, and what you learn.
And, both of you failed to answer my questions, respond to what I actually am intimating, and/or misconstrued what I typed. But, hey, that’s what you always do so why should anyone be surprised? Yogi and Craig, masters of deflection, re-direction, and misinformation. That’s why most of us are tiring of your routines out here.
You are only tiring of us because we believe in telling the truth and you believe in saying anything to protect your fragile ego.
Would you admit that the consequences of legalized pot are negative regarding car accidents/deaths, addiction, use by people under 18, contribution to mental illness, loss of IQ, and a growing black market? Nope.
And did any Pot Fan who favored legalization ever admit this would be the result of legalization? Of course not. And so you can’t admit it IS the result now.
And so you say dumb things like “show me your citations” when I have done that multiple times. Man Up, for once.
January 3, 2019 at 12:34 pm
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Uh, duh – any increased use of any intoxicant will lead in all of these results. See alcohol for a better example. Not rocket science, Craig. Still, doesn’t support an argument in my opinion to keep it illegal. Americans overwhelmingly want it, both sides of the aisle, it has been legal in this country before until the use of propaganda, and I don’t believe the government should be able to tell adults how to live their lives.
You haven’t shown me any of those police reports, Craig. Quit lying or re-directing or deflecting. I HAVE spoken with many of my law enforcement officers and what I typed above is truth. In a majority of cases, unless they find weed on the person, they don’t know they are high and especially in adults. UNLESS that substance has been combined with something else, such as alcohol. You are surrounded by people who have smoked up everyday and you don’t even know it. I bet you can tell when someone is drunk, though.
January 2, 2019 at 12:01 pm
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This article just targets the increase in accidents in comparison to the legalization. Has the population in these states increased? Are there now more drivers on the road compared to prior years? How was the weather? There is a lot of variables and I don’t see connection.
The researchers (I believe) tried their best, but didn’t consider a few of the items you asked about (namely population changes and number of drivers on the road). To wit….
“Analysts controlled for differences in the rated driver population, insured vehicle fleet, the mix of urban versus rural exposure, unemployment, weather and seasonality….”
“The study controlled for differences in demographics, unemployment and weather in each state….”
“Although the study controlled for several differences among the states, the models can’t capture every single difference…”
I think we can all agree it should continue to be illegal to operate a vehicle under the influence of any drug, including marijuana. My gut tells me legalization will slightly increase accident rates for various reasons (e.g. change of mindset to “well, it’s legal, so it’s fine), but I also agree with the article’s closing lines:
“Marijuana’s role in crashes isn’t as clear as the link between alcohol and crashes. Many states don’t include consistent information on driver drug use in crash reports, and policies and procedures for drug testing are inconsistent. More drivers in crashes are tested for alcohol than for drugs. When drivers are tested, other drugs are often found in combination with alcohol, which makes it difficult to isolate their separate effects.”
“Despite the difficulty of isolating the specific effects of marijuana impairment on crash risk, the evidence is growing that legalizing its use increases crashes,” Harkey says.”
Balogna to the people who pooh-pooh stats just because they want to be potheads. Selfish! A young man was sent to prison in Chester County, PA years ago because he killed a person while driving under the influence of pot. Just TRY telling the dead person’s family your whiny excuses for wanting pot legalized so more people can die on the roads. And don’t try the lame “It’s no worse than alcohol” bit! In causing mental illness and violent behavior, etc. it is worse–but what on earth kind of worse example can you use than alcohol? It has destroyed millions of lives! (I don’t smoke or drink or take drugs, so yes, I can say all this with a clear conscience.)
Legalizing Marijuana will not create a massive influx of marijuana impaired drivers on our roads.
It will not create an influx of professionals (doctors, pilots, bus drivers, etc..) under the influence on the job either.
This is a prohibitionist propaganda scare tactic.
Truth: Responsible drivers don’t drive while impaired on any substance period!
Irresponsible drivers are already on our roads, and they will drive while impaired regardless of their drug of choice’s legality.
Therefore, legalizing marijuana will have little impact on the amount of marijuana impaired drivers on our roads.
The same thing applies to people being under the influence of marijuana on the job.
Responsible people do not go to work impaired, period. Regardless of their drug of choice’s legality.
There is absolutely no doubt now that the majority of Americans want to completely legalize marijuana nationwide. Our numbers grow on a daily basis.
The prohibitionist view on marijuana is the viewpoint of a minority and rapidly shrinking percentage of Americans. It is based upon decades of lies and propaganda.
Each and every tired old lie they have propagated has been thoroughly proven false by both science and society.
Their tired old rhetoric no longer holds any validity. The vast majority of Americans have seen through the sham of marijuana prohibition in this day and age. The number of prohibitionists left shrinks on a daily basis.
With their credibility shattered, and their not so hidden agendas visible to a much wiser public, what’s left for a marijuana prohibitionist to do?
Maybe, just come to terms with the fact that Marijuana Legalization Nationwide is an inevitable reality that’s approaching much sooner than prohibitionists think, and there is nothing they can do to stop it!
Legalize Nationwide!…and Support All Marijuana Legalization Efforts!
Propaganda generated those highly credible car accident stats?!
In reply to PolarBeaRepeal,
Propaganda generated by the notoriously and vehemently vocal anti-marijuana prohibitionist auto-insurance industry which has been trying to spread fear and panic over marijuana legalization from the very beginning.
What has actually occurred in states that have legalized marijuana is that law enforcement agencies statewide immediately and vigorously began a new policy of testing more drivers than they ever did before legalization occured for residual trace amounts of THC. Which remain detectable in a driver’s system for up to months after consuming marijuana.
This obviously in no way proves actual impairment at the time a driver is pulled over. So for instance, the police get to the scene of a roadside accident with a fatality. The driver at fault, is let’s say for example three times over the legal alcohol BAC limit, but the police also insist on a test for marijuana. Although bear in mind, with a BAC three times over the legal limit for booze and with all the obvious tell-tale signs of impairment, it’s plain for all to immediately see, and know, that alcohol was the drug responsible for this tragedy….
Residual trace amounts of THC are detected in the driver’s system after the police conclude their very specific and intentional policy driven test for those residual trace amounts of THC. A month prior to being pulled over, the driver consumed a little marijuana socially with friends…
Obviously, the joint or two from a month ago had nothing to do with this fatal and tragic accident, but the booze the driver drank at the bar before he got into his car that very same night most certainly did.
Law enforcement now marks off this accident as another marijuana “INVOLVED” fatality in order to bolster their bogus statistics.
Prohibitionists always use terms like “INVOLVED” , “RELATED” or “LINKED” when they tout these horrific sounding statistics and claims. Because they can’t ever prove marijuana impairment alone to be the actual “CAUSE”.
In states that have now legalized marijuana, when you get pulled over for speeding or even anything at all, law enforcement policy will automatically also require that the police administer that very same test for residual trace amounts of THC from up to months prior to being pulled over. Which again, in no way proves impairment whatsoever and then the results are added on as just another one of their bogus marijuana “INVOLVED/RELATED”/LINKED” statistics.
This is nothing more than merely another prohibitionist scare tactic. The goal being to frighten and alarm the public back into the strict prohibition of marijuana.
Well guess what? The public isn’t buying it and everyone sees the deceit by ever more desperate prohibitionist zealots. Hell-bent on keeping marijuana illegal. So, the public is already well aware that when such claims are made about marijuana “INVOLVED/RELATED/LINKED” deaths, they are flat out lies!
Nobody is so gullible as to believe these utterly nonsense prohibitionist claims of massive amounts of new marijuana impaired drivers.
Now, I challenge all anti-marijuana prohibitionist types publicly yet again:
Please provide us proof of just one single roadway fatality proven one hundred percent to have been “CAUSED” (Not “INVOLVED/ Not “RELATED”/Not “LINKED”) by marijuana impairment and only marijuana impairment, alone.
The public is waiting for prohibitionists to provide indisputable proof of just one such death “CAUSED” directly and solely by marijuana impairment, alone. Just one. (Not even the massive influx prohibitionists claim. Just one.)
We’ll wait….and wait…and wait….While we all know they simply can’t. Because it’s all just propaganda, lies, and scare-tactics.
*yawns*
Next?
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I see you recruited several stoners to censor those whose opinions and credible medical studies contradict your opinion. Good luck with your cognitive powers in the near future!
The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
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“Marijuana is 114 times safer than drinking alcohol”
“Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say”
“Marijuana may be even safer than previously thought, researchers say New study: We should stop fighting marijuana legalization and focus on alcohol and tobacco instead By Christopher Ingraham February 23
Compared with other recreational drugs — including alcohol — marijuana may be even safer than previously thought. And researchers may be systematically underestimating risks associated with alcohol use.
Those are the top-line findings of recent research published in the journal Scientific Reports, a subsidiary of Nature. Researchers sought to quantify the risk of death associated with the use of a variety of commonly used substances. They found that at the level of individual use, alcohol was the deadliest substance, followed by heroin and cocaine.”
-washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/23/marijuana-may-be-even-safer-than-previously-thought-researchers-say/
“The report discovered that marijuana is 114 times less deadly than alcohol. Researchers were able to determine this by comparing the lethal doses with the amount of typical use. Through this approach, marijuana had the lowest mortality risk to users out of all the drugs they studied. In fact—because the numbers were crossed with typical daily use—marijuana is the only drug that tested as “low risk.”
-complex.com/pop-culture/2015/02/scientific-reports-weed-114-safer-alcohol
I love Pot Heads. Just love them. Continuing to compare one bad thing with another and then claiming how righteous it is to embrace the lesser bad thing. Logic only a Pot Head could love.
Meanwhile, completely lying about the increase in traffic deaths that are reported on IN THE ARTICLE.
Hear No Evil. See No Evil. Hilarious.
Like commenting after an article about marijuana addiction that there is no such thing as marijuana addiction. Or commenting after an article that connects pot and higher rates of mental illness that there is no such thing as pot-connected mental illness.
The Denial is just hilarious.
Logic: Legalize all pharmaceutical drugs. After all, they are less harmful than alcohol. Duh.
Craig, you’re dead on. Responsible people will be responsible is his argument. Yep, because everyone that died from drug related deaths or alcohol were dead beats, worthless, scum bag type people. I guess Michael Jackson had nothing to live for and other famous and non-famous people. Drugs affect every group of people out there. From the poor to the rich. They try it once because it might be fun and then again and again. Not many people walk into the bar the first time and say, “Hey, I want to become an alcoholic and ruin my life and maybe kill someone.” Pot can be used as a gateway drug and it’s harmful to children. Legalizing should not occur. Maybe for medicinal use, but that’s it. Anything beyond that and you’ll not only see traffic accidents increased as well as emergency room visits, but you’ll see more children going to the ER as well for accidental ingestion.
The “Gateway Myth” has been proven false over and over again. Correlation doesn’t equal causation.
If prohibitionists really want to protect families from a drug proven to destroy lives and families, then they should be up in arms, protesting the legality of booze.
Alcohol is the drug that causes the most traffic fatalities, domestic violence, and overall detriment to society by a huge landslide. More so than all other drugs, combined.
Why doesn’t that concern you prohibitionists even more? It should.
“Marijuana Is Gateway Drug” Theory Debunked, Again
-opposingviews.co…
“Marijuana a “Gateway” Drug? Scientists Call Theory Half-Baked”
-cbsnews.com/news…
“Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die”
http://healthland.time.com/…
“Seven Studies That Debunk the Gateway Myth”
-norml.com/blog/2012…
In Long Beach, California there is a very large rehabilitation facility that serves many people who are on parole, many on probation, and some with HIV.
The Executive Administrator laughs at people like you who talk about pot not being a gateway drug. She points out that over 90% of all cocains and heroin addicts first started with pot. She lives it, unlike you, who are just out to try to sell drugs that you consume yourself.
She estimates that 30% of the people who come to her facility have marijuana as their primary problem. Those are people who have let down their kids, their spouses, their friends and many others because of pot.
Keep on lying, B. Kelly. Keep it up. The THC is ruining your brain.
Regarding “The Children”,
Let’s not use “The Children” as an excuse to prohibit and criminalize adult use of a natural plant far less dangerous than perfectly legal alcohol because nobody condones child use, and this is about allowing adults only to choose marijuana.
It’s our responsibility as parents by to educate our children on drug use. It’s not the government’s job to force Draconian Marijuana Laws upon every adult citizen under the guise of protecting “The Children”.
What message are we sending our children when it is easier for them to obtain marijuana now with it being illegal than it is for them to buy alcohol?
It doesn’t take the intellect of a genius to understand that stores card kids for I.D. Thugs and gang members do not. They also push the real hard drugs on children. Stores do not.
Marijuana legalization will make it harder for children to obtain it.
What message does it send our children when the President of The United States himself alongside a long list of successful people openly admit regular pot use at one time or another in their lives?
While we tell our kids how it will ruin their futures, and then ensure so, by allowing our government to to jail our children and give them permanent criminal records when they get caught with a little Marijuana. Especially, if they are the wrong skin color or from the “wrong neighborhood”. Which in turn, ruins their chances of employment for life.
The Prohibition of Marijuana is the wrong message to send our children while we glorify, advertise and promote the much more dangerous use of alcohol like it’s an all American pastime.
The worst thing about marijuana and our children is what happens to them when they get caught up in the criminal justice system due to it’s prohibition.
Protect “The Children” and Our Neighborhoods Through The Legalization and Regulation of Marijuana Nationwide!
” Marijuana Use Doesn’t Actually Change The Structure Of Your Brain, New Study Finds
This is your brain on marijuana…and it looks pretty much the same as the brains of non-users.
That’s essentially what researchers concluded after comparing the brain morphology of 140 cannabis consumers and 121 people in a control group. Contrary to most previous research on the subject, they found marijuana use had “no significant effects on cortical surface morphology.”
The new study, published last week in the journal European Neuropsychopharmacology, sought to identify any differences in cortical thickness, surface area and gyrification index between people who use cannabis and those who don’t. The three factors are generally related to cognitive function.
Via European Neuropsychopharmacology.
MRI scans turned up no evidence of significant differences, though. Researchers also found that people who were classified as dependent on marijuana or started using it at an early age didn’t experience changes in cortical surface brain morphology.
“While regular cannabis use has been associated with altered cortical morphology, previous findings have not been consistent in terms of the direction or region of alteration, which included increase, decrease, and lack of change in cortical morphology, across all four cortical lobes.”
“Here, we comprehensively examined cortical thickness, surface area, and gyrification index in relation to cannabis use, dependence, and onset age, across the whole cortex, and demonstrated no significant effects on cortical surface morphology.”
It’s not entirely clear why previous studies have reached fundamentally disparate conclusions about cannabis and brain morphology, but the researchers involved in the current paper said their analytic approach was especially comprehensive.
While cannabis use isn’t associated with cortical surface morphology, according to the study, the team said it’s still possible that marijuana causes changes “at the network or molecular level.”
-European Neuropsychopharmacology
Your entire argument falls apart when today’s San Diego Union Tribune reports a GROWING black market after legalization in California.
But don’t let facts get in the way of your high, man. (Dave’s not here.)
Euro Neuro is biased in its work due to the source of its funding.
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The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
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Key point #1 from the article:
“Driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal in all 50 states and D.C., but determining impairment is challenging. Unlike alcohol, the amount of marijuana present in a person’s body doesn’t consistently relate to impairment. THC, or Tetrahydrocannabinol, is the primary psychoactive component of cannabis. A positive test for THC and its active metabolite doesn’t mean the driver was impaired at the time of the crash. Habitual users of marijuana may have positive blood tests for THC days or weeks after using the drug.”
I’m against MJ legalization (beyond medical) but if they do it I think there should be zero-tolerance for those who test positive for THC *until* they have something to prove impairment.
For those who support it, what do you think, other than “give ’em all a pass” because that’s the gist of what I’ve seen. (I.e., “we have no way to measure impairment” but don’t give any suggestion as to how we should deal with it, *implying* we should give MJ a total free pass.)
A field sobriety test, similar to one given for suspected drunk drivers but tweaked to focus on how marijuana impairs your cognitive ability – something akin to CA’s marijuana FST – should be administered. A refusal of a FST should be an automatic suspension of your license.
Unfortunately, unlike alcohol, there’s not a linear connection between levels of the drug in your system and how inebriated you may be, so taking blood work or things of that ilk are totally useless to determine if someone was DUI on marijuana until someone gets rich by coming up with the first real-time marijuana “breathalyzer.”
And since it is so hard to test someone for driving while impaired on pot, let’s just go ahead and legalize it and see what happens . . .
The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
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Determining impairment is obvious to those who can eliminate the presence of alcohol or prescript drugs. The remaining possible sources of impairment ARE ILLEGAL. Shrouding the drug in the bloodstream or brain cortex doesn’t prevent indirect determination of its usage.
And key point #2:
Tn researchers note that marijuana’s role in crashes isn’t as clear as the link between alcohol and crashes. Many states don’t include consistent information on driver drug use in crash reports, and policies and procedures for drug testing are inconsistent. More drivers in crashes are tested for alcohol than for drugs. When drivers are tested, other drugs are often found in combination with alcohol, which makes it difficult to isolate their separate effects.
You mean that maybe pot-caused traffic deaths are EVEN WORSE than reported? That’s your logic, I am afraid.
craig, poor Brian is a Big Pot bot.
Name calling and stereotyping. It’s all that prohibitionists have left to offer society since virtually every piece of marijuana propaganda out there has been thoroughly debunked, and completely dismissed by a smarter than prohibitionists thought public.
Nobody can provide a real reason to continue the “War on Marijuana” because there isn’t one.
You know, a little live and let live goes a real long way towards ensuring a very long, stress and anger free life.
If somebody doesn’t approve of marijuana, then by all means, that person shouldn’t consume marijuana. Nobody is ever going to force anybody to consume marijuana that doesn’t desire to. Plain and simple. Problem solved.
Let’s allow other hard-working, tax paying adults to make their own choices about marijuana.
The government has no business attempting to legislate morality by creating victim-less marijuana “crimes” because it simply doesn’t work and has already cost the taxpayers a fortune.
Regarding your brain studies: brain scans are notoriously limited. You can’t prove someone has alzheimers until after death during an autopsy of the brain. You can’t prove someone has CTE until death. You can’t prove a whole LOT of things until after death.
And I find it revealing you didn’t link to your “study”. Let’s have it.
My guess: you’re scared about what your brain looks like after all that THC you put in there.
While cannabis use isn’t associated with cortical surface morphology, according to the study, the team said it’s still possible that marijuana causes changes “at the network or molecular level.”
-European Neuropsychopharmacology
The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
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growing elderly population….also in ALL states, and compared to states no one is rushing to go retire…..also NO major states used in study and what “controls used and how many in study not revealed….).just saying…..
Prohibitionists will never learn and always do more harm then good.
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Gateway drug, and bad for the children? All the threats we face and cannabis is your concern? The irrational fear and nonsense spewed about this plant are mind-numbingly stupid. You’re worried about “the children” yet you have no concern about the anti-depressants, antipsychotics, sedative-hypnotics, anti-anxiety pills being swallowed on a daily basis? Alcohol, one of the most destructive substances ever that ruins lives each day? No concern there huh? No concern the lack of reliable research with the above-mentioned drugs especially on children? No concern? The absolute myriad of strong reliable research about the healing prowess of this plant, especially out of Israel, and cannabis is what draws your ire? Sad…
In the real world, two contradictory things can be true at the SAME TIME. THC can be horrible for people, especially young people in terms of loss of IQ, loss of motivation, increased risk of mental illness, and increased risk of traffic accidents while high.
And at the SAME TIME, cannabis can have a few legitimate medical uses!
Only in Pot Head land is there no room for both possibilities at the same time.
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How many of the alleged “marijuana involved” accidents were high-speed, head-on crashes with the charged driver going the wrong way on the freeway (none?). That’s alcohol’s trademark accident.
Suspect many are “OMG – I’m SORRY!”, I didn’t see you backing out – let me give you my insurance agent’s name and number – hope I didn’t harsh your entire day!
Severity counts data skewers…..
The study that is the topic of this article is by HLDI, a highly respected research firm that intends to determine causes of auto accidents for the purpose of loss mitigation. Your argument about propaganda is politically charged hyperbole because YOU CAN’T REFUTE the CREDIBLE STUDY RESULTS.
YOUR SUSPICIONS are NOT SUPPORTED BY ANY DATA. That’s typical of stoners’ arguments for recre-pot.
WTH are you talking about?
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Are you having difficulty reading and comprehending?
No, he doesn’t have that same problem you do. You are the one who intimated he has an argument about propaganda that is politically charged hyperbole. I would be willing to bet $100 that is why he is asking, “WTH are you talking about?”
Back to grammar school, Yogi!
Apparently, he does. You’re wrong.
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PolarBeaRepeal must be stoned. He keeps posting the same thing over and over again. Dude time to chill and eat some snacks!
Nope. I re-posted in reply to use of BOTs to censor those posts. IJ has since removed ALL of the then-existing votes by BOTs used by the stoners to censor opposition. My re-posts were intended to circumvent the censorship by stoners. IJ has addressed the issue and has ‘taken names’ of the offenders.
More car crashes equals more dead people in car crashes. Gork: “Yeah, but just a few, so it’s okay.”
This piece is literally a guess at causation with no evidence whatsoever that a single driver involved in any of the accidents had actually consumed marijuana. Do better or leave the attempts at deduction of causation to scientists.
Ben;
Did you read the actual source report? There IS CREDIBLE evidence of increases in accident frequency in states that implemented recre-pot laws. Are you claiming THAT is ‘no evidence whatsoever’? If so, take your case to a jury of independent jurists and wait for their verdict. Let us know how that works out.
PS your link is considered to be spam by IJ.
No, that’s not what he wrote. He wrote, “This piece is literally a guess at causation with no evidence whatsoever that a single driver involved in any of the accidents had actually consumed marijuana.”
And, as the article points out, :”More drivers in crashes are tested for alcohol than for drugs. When drivers are tested, other drugs are often found in combination with alcohol, which makes it difficult to isolate their separate effects.”
Actually, his statement is an opinion that the study has not proven causation. That opinion is fundamentally true, but there are no requirements that 100% causation is required to take action to prevent deaths or accidents that cause harm or economic loss or loss of work / recreation time. A strong correlation is sufficient for a state insurance department to approve a rating action or underwriting action by an insurance company or the entire insurance industry. Ask an actuary you know to explain the details regarding causation and correlation of accidents; they are not bound to producing evidence of 100% cause & effect relationships. Rather, sufficiently strong correlation is sufficient. We see different degrees of correlation, whereas you are arguing your point on a measure that is not binding by state insurance departments. And, this is an insurance oriented media website.
Deduction: Scientific analysis of THC intoxication proves that it can cause loss of focus and attention that every intelligent person knows can lead to car crashes. Police routinely report finding obviously high THC intoxicated drivers at the scene of car crashes.
Pot Heads: “UH UH! You can’t prove it!”
Can you provide copies of those reports? I’m interested in how a police officer knows someone is an “obviously high THC intoxicated driver.” I have officers living all around me. We’ve had many discussions about their arrests, drugs, alcohol, robbery, shootings…you name it. When it comes to MJ, they talk about finding the substance itself and if they didn’t, they’d have no idea the person was intoxicated. It’s not as obvious as someone being drunk, after all. Many users hide it well, unless of course they are mixing it with something else like alcohol. Weed usage by itself isn’t as widely obvious as you are suggesting. Especially if the user is an adult.
Why bother. I have presented lots of links to reputable research on the dangers of pot. And you keep on advocating more highway deaths, more young people ruining their lives, more people addicted to pot, and more mental illness caused by THC.
Captain Proud!
You can easily obtain police blotters in your home town if you pay the copy fees. First, you must identify auto accidents that may be due to recre-pot induced ‘intoxication’. Then, visit your local PD. Tell them you’re there to ‘find no evidence’ that THC increases the probability of an auto accident. Let us know how they reply, and what you learn.
And, both of you failed to answer my questions, respond to what I actually am intimating, and/or misconstrued what I typed. But, hey, that’s what you always do so why should anyone be surprised? Yogi and Craig, masters of deflection, re-direction, and misinformation. That’s why most of us are tiring of your routines out here.
You are only tiring of us because we believe in telling the truth and you believe in saying anything to protect your fragile ego.
Would you admit that the consequences of legalized pot are negative regarding car accidents/deaths, addiction, use by people under 18, contribution to mental illness, loss of IQ, and a growing black market? Nope.
And did any Pot Fan who favored legalization ever admit this would be the result of legalization? Of course not. And so you can’t admit it IS the result now.
And so you say dumb things like “show me your citations” when I have done that multiple times. Man Up, for once.
Uh, duh – any increased use of any intoxicant will lead in all of these results. See alcohol for a better example. Not rocket science, Craig. Still, doesn’t support an argument in my opinion to keep it illegal. Americans overwhelmingly want it, both sides of the aisle, it has been legal in this country before until the use of propaganda, and I don’t believe the government should be able to tell adults how to live their lives.
You haven’t shown me any of those police reports, Craig. Quit lying or re-directing or deflecting. I HAVE spoken with many of my law enforcement officers and what I typed above is truth. In a majority of cases, unless they find weed on the person, they don’t know they are high and especially in adults. UNLESS that substance has been combined with something else, such as alcohol. You are surrounded by people who have smoked up everyday and you don’t even know it. I bet you can tell when someone is drunk, though.
This article just targets the increase in accidents in comparison to the legalization. Has the population in these states increased? Are there now more drivers on the road compared to prior years? How was the weather? There is a lot of variables and I don’t see connection.
Queue Craig and Yogi in 3…2…1…
The researchers (I believe) tried their best, but didn’t consider a few of the items you asked about (namely population changes and number of drivers on the road). To wit….
“Analysts controlled for differences in the rated driver population, insured vehicle fleet, the mix of urban versus rural exposure, unemployment, weather and seasonality….”
“The study controlled for differences in demographics, unemployment and weather in each state….”
“Although the study controlled for several differences among the states, the models can’t capture every single difference…”
http s://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/crashes-rise-in-first-states-to-begin-legalized-retail-sales-of-recreational-marijuana
I think we can all agree it should continue to be illegal to operate a vehicle under the influence of any drug, including marijuana. My gut tells me legalization will slightly increase accident rates for various reasons (e.g. change of mindset to “well, it’s legal, so it’s fine), but I also agree with the article’s closing lines:
“Marijuana’s role in crashes isn’t as clear as the link between alcohol and crashes. Many states don’t include consistent information on driver drug use in crash reports, and policies and procedures for drug testing are inconsistent. More drivers in crashes are tested for alcohol than for drugs. When drivers are tested, other drugs are often found in combination with alcohol, which makes it difficult to isolate their separate effects.”
“Despite the difficulty of isolating the specific effects of marijuana impairment on crash risk, the evidence is growing that legalizing its use increases crashes,” Harkey says.”
Brain fart in the above comment: the researchers did try to take into account population changes.
Balogna to the people who pooh-pooh stats just because they want to be potheads. Selfish! A young man was sent to prison in Chester County, PA years ago because he killed a person while driving under the influence of pot. Just TRY telling the dead person’s family your whiny excuses for wanting pot legalized so more people can die on the roads. And don’t try the lame “It’s no worse than alcohol” bit! In causing mental illness and violent behavior, etc. it is worse–but what on earth kind of worse example can you use than alcohol? It has destroyed millions of lives! (I don’t smoke or drink or take drugs, so yes, I can say all this with a clear conscience.)