Trump Administration Moves Ahead with Revised Truckers’ Hours Rules

By Richard Lardner | August 19, 2019

  • August 19, 2019 at 3:27 pm
    Agent says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
    Thumb up 13
    Thumb down 21

    The whole idea is to get rid of Obama era regulations which are harmful to business.

    • August 19, 2019 at 3:36 pm
      ReUW says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 36
      Thumb down 6

      And now the rollbacks in safety regulations are harmful to our business, as insurers.

      • August 19, 2019 at 5:45 pm
        PolarBearpeal says:
        Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 4
        Thumb down 14

        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        • August 20, 2019 at 10:57 am
          ReUW says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 21
          Thumb down 1

          Yes, I have as it is my business to do so. I’ve also been following the advisory groups with actuaries that study the impact of such legislation. A quote from one of these groups even made its way into this IJ article:

          “Eric Teoh, a senior statistician with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, had urged against lengthening the short-haul work period. In a letter sent to Martinez and the agency last year, Teoh said that a recent Institute study showed that interstate truck drivers operating under the short-haul exemption had a crash risk 383% higher than those not using the exemption.”

          • August 20, 2019 at 5:06 pm
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
            Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 14

            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • August 21, 2019 at 9:33 am
            ReUW says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 15
            Thumb down 3

            Actually, yes, I do have those stats. That study is pretty popular, peer-reviewed, and easy to find for free online if you’re interested.

            The 383% is statistically significant and credible.

          • August 21, 2019 at 12:24 pm
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
            Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 14

            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

  • August 19, 2019 at 3:53 pm
    Boonedoggle says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 7
    Thumb down 4

    ReUW, how are the rollbacks harmful to the PC insurance industry?
    While I’ll concede that there will probably be “society costs” from allowing more fatigued drivers on the roads, data on the frequency and severity of commerical vehicle accidents should be readily available for actuaries to determine adequate rates to cover the enhanced risks. Higher premium capture should work to the advantage of the commerical auto insurers.

    • August 19, 2019 at 4:16 pm
      ReUW says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 26
      Thumb down 3

      Trucking is already a hard class of business and very few carriers I’ve seen, as a reinsurer, actually make an underwriting profit. Looser safety regulations can only make it harder to write. It’s like if OSHA started rolling back workplace safety regulations for factories. Would you then be eager to go out and insure the comp on a bunch of factories?

      “Just charge more premium” is what I like to tell my carriers, but in reality, there’s only so much you can charge before your larger accounts just decide it’s more economical for them to retain their risk. And the small guys who can’t afford rocket high premiums just go out of business, go uninsured, or get bought up by the larger guys.

      • August 19, 2019 at 4:52 pm
        Boonedoggle says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 12
        Thumb down 0

        ReUW, your response brings up some good points, but hours of service issues are just one of many challenges facing risks of long haul trucking today. Others include CDL mills which credential drivers in just a day or two of minimal training. Worse yet, the horrible lifestyle burdening over the road truckers has created driver shortages which compel carriers to hire most anyone who walks in the door. Finally, the driving compensation method (pay by mile) certainly can’t encourage safety. I just makes no sense that trucking companies pay a driver twice the compensation to drive 80 mph than 40mph. The needed reforms in the trucking industry are indeed many faceted.

        • August 20, 2019 at 1:17 am
          Jon says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 12
          Thumb down 3

          So why aren’t they working on reforms instead of just putting a band-aid on it? Because it profits powerful business owners is about the only reason I can see, and while I get that that’s the Republican motive on everything I don’t see how you could really spin this in a way common sense wouldn’t refute.

          • August 20, 2019 at 1:19 am
            Jon says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 5
            Thumb down 0

            The points below are actually pretty interesting.

          • August 20, 2019 at 6:21 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 6
            Thumb down 9

            Silicon Valley overwhelmingly supports democrat business, and they are some of the largest corporations in the world. Donations don’t mean much, and you’ve tried that route to prove this republican motive or NRA motive. This is just one flaw in how you came up with republicans being pro business or the NRA being bad, etc.

            The republicans are not purely a business first movement. Some are, but it isn’t the primary movement in the base or by the politicians.

            You’re black and white mentality is seriously heightened more than anyone else here, I think you have some sort of disorder as well. And here the left are…Supporting you.

          • August 21, 2019 at 12:37 pm
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 12

            This isn’t a ‘new money vs old money’ issue. It is an issue of safety and regulatory burdens which are being flipped for political discourse. No one wants truckers, other drivers, or pedestrian to be injured more often. Your black and white mentality makes you condense the discussion into such polar extremes. And you are clearly biased in regard to new money. I challenge that by asking whether you support (old money) Warren Buffet’s political leanings.

            Silicon Valley isn’t a reliable source of UNBIASED information, as we now know, based on extensive studies of the ‘proprietary algorithms’ used by Goo-gul, as well as the output of various searches used to test the political bias of Goo-gul. So, Goo-gul says their algorithms are ‘proprietary’ to (try to) defend their claim of unbiased results. However, many tests of output of Goo-gul searches prove otherwise.

          • August 21, 2019 at 12:39 pm
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 7

            ‘extensive studies’ should be ‘recent reports by insiders’. bear culpa.

          • August 21, 2019 at 1:34 pm
            Jon says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 11
            Thumb down 3

            Thank you for the unrelated rant, Polar, I like how you try to stay relevant despite your paleolithic era conservative views on things. My old money vs. new money argument was in response to Bob, it had nothing to do with the actual trucking topic, it was an aside. I like the republican hatred of google though, since your political party has made facts and truth an enemy. It’s very on-brand for you.

          • August 21, 2019 at 2:00 pm
            Jax Agent says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 8

            “the Republican motive…” LOL. That is pathetic liberal drivel. Ask any trucker (that’s a truck driver, Jon) and they’ll tell you that the regs that have been in place are killing their livelihood…..I doubt if they are all Republicans.

          • August 21, 2019 at 2:09 pm
            Jon says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 10
            Thumb down 2

            Really? I have a brother who’s been a trucker for 13 years, and while I would love to get his opinion on the matter I know for sure he’s not a republican. I will admit that this is an area I don’t know much about, which is why I pointed out that the other arguments are interesting. However, it’s my knee-jerk reaction to fight the republican response to any issue, because generally your party is filled with insidious self-serving weasels who do not care about public safety, health, or wages. The republican motive is profit for the top republican officials and business owners and that’s about it, though. It’s simply common sense and actually reading some of the laws your party tries to get away with to determine as much. Thanks for the effort though!

          • August 21, 2019 at 2:24 pm
            Jax Agent says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 8

            Jon, when you start out with the ‘all Republicans are greedy/bad’ comments in a forum like this your credibility drops precipitously right out of the gate. And when you bring up, ” insidious self-serving weasels who do not care about public safety, health, or wages.” my thoughts almost immediately turn to the Clintons . But you and I both know that they aren’t really any of those bad things. . . . . …. are they ?
            If you could move the “Bernie” stickers out of the way you’d be able to see that there are a lot more members of the Republican party that are working middle class than the Democrats…..not that it matters.
            Like other millennials, once you have worked hard and accumulated something by your own efforts, you might take a slightly conservative turn to the right. Let’s all hope so.
            Ask not what your country can do for you, Jon. Get in shape and join the military for a 4 or 6 year hitch. It’ll do you good !!

          • August 21, 2019 at 3:12 pm
            Jon says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 7
            Thumb down 3

            Really? Because Craig, Polar and Agent have been doing that exact thing about liberals for months. Funny how whiny you conservative types get though when confronted with the same behaviors. Dish it out but can’t take it much? Such a sad little group of sensitive snowflakes you’ve got over there.

            The working class members of the republican party are the ones who are completely comfortable sticking their fingers in their ears and closing their eyes as they’re raked over the coals. Continue to convince yourselves the republican party cares about you, they really don’t, clearly. It would also be one thing if it was as easy to work hard and make something, since the baby boomers kind of destroyed that. You used to be able to go to college and retire with a pension as a postman, now that’s not an option for most jobs these days. But enjoy your sports cars and three vacation homes, you just keep ruining things for future generations, no biggie! The rest of us just might eventually eat the rich, is kind of where it seems like it’s going.

          • August 21, 2019 at 9:32 pm
            Jon says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 4

            I was on my phone earlier so typos abound, but I had to come back just like wow where did you even get some of that lol you’re sundowning hard old man

        • August 21, 2019 at 2:12 pm
          Jax Agent says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 3
          Thumb down 0

          Boon; when the premiums become high enough the trucking company owners will find ways to keep those accidents from happening, they just will. They always do. ReUW, sort of glanced by the subject, but trucking companies that are large enough, like any other business, start looking for ways to reduce their ‘net cost of risk’ and sometimes that is by self insuring, or forming captives, etc, but even in those models if the cost of claims exceeds the funds being set aside to cover them, by enough for long enough………
          One thing that should be done but never will is implementing some kind of tort reform. I have heard horror stories of drunk drivers running up under a tractor-trailer, killing themselves and their heirs sue the trucker for insane amounts of money, despite the truck driver having any (like zero) real liability. Current tort system is so incredibly bad and broken right now.

  • August 19, 2019 at 7:21 pm
    knowall says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 9
    Thumb down 2

    I think one of the problems with the prior regulations was that they ‘drew a line in the sand,’ and if you stepped over it, even it was perfectly reasonable to do so, you could get in trouble.
    For instance, there was no allowance for people hauling livestock to get to their destination for the safety and comfort of the animals. If they were at their break point then that was absolute, even if they only had 20 more minutes to get to their unload destination. Do you really want a load of packed animals stranded out in the sun or 15 degrees below zero?

    • August 19, 2019 at 8:23 pm
      Captain Planet says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 8
      Thumb down 2

      knowall,
      Situations like you just described is where I agree with this one. Or, if the driver is 10 minutes from his/her house – just let them get home to their own bed in that scenario, for crying out loud. And, on the flip side, we are all aware that this is going to get abused and people will get hurt as a result. Just when we were starting to get a good grasp on commercial fleet rate, too! It took us years of double digit increases to restore profitability on larger transportation risks. And, I don’t just mean my book, I mean the industry at large!

      • August 19, 2019 at 10:30 pm
        knowall says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 6
        Thumb down 0

        Right, there are abuses not only in trucking but in automobile driving; it’s just something we live with in an unfair world. People generally are losing their “caution,” as well, when they drive personal autos, which probably poses more exposure to the average driver than the change in these trucking log rules – just thinking out loud. Just look at the cops that blow past ya’ without their sirens or lights on!

  • August 20, 2019 at 7:20 am
    David says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 6
    Thumb down 5

    The problem is these regulations that are being rolled back were insane to begin with. As a former truck driver I can tell you after 8 hours the computer in the truck would force you to stop… even on the side of the road. You had no choice. After 8 hours. These days, I often drive 15 hours (in a car) with no issues. These days you can see that all of the rest areas and truck stops 8 hours outside of a city are over full at night and the side of the road is filled with truckers stopped for the night.
    Forcing a driver to stop after 8 hours is more dangerous then allowing the driver an extra couple hours to find a safe place to stop. These regulations were more dangerous then no regulations.

    • August 27, 2019 at 2:01 pm
      Kimberly says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 0
      Thumb down 0

      David is very correct. How many accidents have occurred now with a driver having to pull over on the side of the road when it is not safe because they ran out of hours and another driver who is not paying attn slams in the back of the rig.

      I am an insurance agent and my husband is OTR trucker hauling mostly produce/reefer. He has been in the industry for over 15 yrs. I have taken countless vacations to go with him on the road. What is stated in the article about the loading/unloading time is very true. For example, we have had to wait for over 5 hours to get unloaded. During this time we have relaxed or napped so how does this make sense to have those hours count against a driver as on duty?

      I understand the need for regulations and safety but listen to the people when making these decisions. Just as was commented before, drivers want to get home to their families too.

  • August 20, 2019 at 12:58 pm
    Kathryn L. Gasser says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 5
    Thumb down 1

    14 hour work day, even if sitting, is long enough. Some companies already abuse this rule. Remove the 30 minute off duty break. It is stupid and solves nothing. Trucking is a very unhealthy industry for drivers, 14 hours is enough. The 10 hour break should be lengthened to 12 hours.

  • August 20, 2019 at 1:37 pm
    smooth says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 15
    Thumb down 0

    The Carrier I work for has about 1/3 of our business in Trucking. It’s almost impossible to make a profit in the industry. The reasons are varied, but the shortage of qualified drivers has to be at the top of the list. When some of the regulations were put into place, many older truckers retired rather than deal with them. My father was one of them.

    The regulations were not put into place by greedy corporations. They were put into place because people were asking for changes to be made within the industry. As usual, nobody can ever agree on anything, so what was put into effect was a law to limit drivers time on the road, regardless of how close to their destination they were. This ended up costing the corporations much more money as they now had to pay for lodging, extra meals and so forth. It was a mess. When people want change, they need to bring ideas along with their request. If there are no good ideas, stop making changes for the sake of saying something has been done. At the time though, this pacified everyone, as usual.

    Trucking is a dangerous industry. Currently, about 10% of the workforce is foreign with zero experience. If that doesn’t scare you, it should. Just think of it this way; While you are driving down the road with your family in the car, there is a 10% chance the guy driving the 18 wheeler next to you has under a year behind the wheel, and more than likely, is fresh out of training. The CDL mills mentioned above is so true. If you pay your money, you get a CDL.

    Our local trash company was in the news recently for their hiring practices. A trash truck is a huge piece of metal that can destroy just about anything it hits. The local company hires people fresh out of prison, with no experience, and “trains” them to drive these. They get away with paying subpar wages because the people they employ have no other options. That may be what is driving through your neighborhood while your kids are playing outside. Scary thought.

    Real chance only occurs when everyone comes together and people who actually do the job are brought in to assist with the changes. It wasn’t the case last time. Politicians made those laws. I highly doubt many politicians have ever driven locally or over the road.

    • August 20, 2019 at 9:26 pm
      'ole days says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 5
      Thumb down 0

      In the ‘ole days you truckers would have gotten a convoy together and hauled *** to Washington, DC, demanding justice. Or as least I think that’s the way they did it on the 1970s show, Movin’ On!

    • August 21, 2019 at 6:02 pm
      In the middle says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 1
      Thumb down 2

      Just curious, how many log books did your dad use on a daily basis? Was he playing log book roulette- one for the company, one for Law Enforcement and one for himself. That is the primary reason to go electronic because the bad guys were cheating. Now, the bad guys are a small part of the industry, but they are the ones that ruin it (additional regulations) for everyone else.

      So, are you more worried about foreign drivers or in-experienced or foreign in-experienced drivers?

      Also, with the plethora of foreign and in-experienced drivers causing you to be fearful on the roads, why are there not millions of accidents per year? with about 3.5 million drivers- 350 thousand are foreign drivers. I think it is something to be concerned with, but I am more scared of the four wheelers on the road chatting on the phone, being distracted by kids, etc..

      • August 21, 2019 at 8:49 pm
        Jax Agent says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 3
        Thumb down 5

        Wow, that’s a lot of questions, In the middle. Were you hoping to have your multi-faceted questioned answered in the form of a question ? Are those real questions or some form of manifesto ?

  • August 21, 2019 at 5:56 pm
    In the middle says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 3
    Thumb down 0

    There seems to be both good and bad in the proposes regulation.

    I agree that loading and unloading there is a lot idle time that perhaps can be used as break time (unfortunately there will be drivers who have to work while loading or unloading, but counting it as break time). For the most part, this is logical.

    I also agree that taking off log in the middle of the shift should be ok. This seems to a neutral rule as the driver still has to log 10 off duty hours after his shift. This seems like a life saver to me.

    The above changes seem logical and straight forward, but why were they not thought out beforehand? Did the bureacrats not enlist those in the industry to craft common-sense rules?

    As far as local drivers go, in metro areas, do you really want drivers working 14 hours straight? With heavy stop and go traffics (and local drivers seems to do more of the loading/unloading work (than say long haul drivers), the stress of city driving would add to the fatigue factor of these drivers.



Add a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*