Centers for Disease Control Prioritizes Investigations into Vaping-Related Illnesses

September 17, 2019

  • September 17, 2019 at 1:18 pm
    Agent says:
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    Vapers are the same as Weed Smokers.

    • September 17, 2019 at 1:25 pm
      Jon says:
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      Smoke is the collection of solid, liquid, and gaseous aerosol particulates emitted from combustion.

      Vapor involves heating a liquid to the point where it is converted to a gas, also known as vapor, which is then inhaled.

      Your statement, aside from being needlessly incendiary, is technically inaccurate and boring.

      • September 17, 2019 at 1:52 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        Thanks, Dr. Science. Fascinating lesson from second grade.

        Now tell me: how many people in California who vape are vaping nicotine and how many THC? Because in he latter case, Vapers are the same a Weed Smokers, Big Boy. And there are LOTS of THC vapers; just go to any bar on a weekend.

        • September 17, 2019 at 1:57 pm
          Jon says:
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          I thought it was a nice lesson too, particularly since as you claim it’s second grade information, that apparently Agent wasn’t aware of. I wouldn’t have gone so far as to imply he’s lacking second grader knowledge, but as you said.

          Probably far more are vaping nicotine, as there are vape-stores everywhere, JUULs are quite popular, and vaping nicotine has been an option for a few years now whereas marijuana cartridges are a relatively recent exposure.

          So no, vapers are not the same as weed smokers. I feel confident in stating that the majority of vapers are using nicotine.

          I highly doubt you are able to tell the difference between a THC vape and a nicotine vape by sight, Craig. Especially since the majority of them look exactly the same. Especially since the majority of marijuana users I know (And I know many, how many do you know, Craig? Actually know, not “have seen”) are going to be somewhat more discreet than openly using their vape at a bar for risk of getting kicked out of the bar. It’s pretty clear generally if the vapor is cannabis vapor. You’re once again using generalizations instead of evidence to draw your (false) conclusions.

          Here, allow you to help you:

          Craig Cornell says:
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          I see you think you speak for all VAPERS Newsflash: you don’t.

          • September 17, 2019 at 3:15 pm
            Agent says:
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            jon, you are a child. Children know nothing and just scream if someone disagrees with them. By the way, does your boss know you are camped out all day on the IJ forum? Better get to work or he will find someone else to do your job.

          • September 17, 2019 at 4:04 pm
            Jon says:
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            LOL and you’re not a child? You started this article with the line “vapers are the same as weed smokers” not exactly Hemingway are you? I actually know several things, as illustrated in my points above when I pointed out how wrong you were. You seem to be describing yourself, Agent. But nice try :) And thankfully I’m of the generation that doesn’t find any difficulty multitasking. I manage to serve you fools up all day AND get all of my work done. Sorry if you can’t keep up, gramps :)

          • September 17, 2019 at 4:05 pm
            Jon says:
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            Additionally, I’m happy to engage and debate at any time, Agent. The problem is you and your buddies don’t actually have the data, evidence, or logic to back up your petty, biased beliefs. I’ll continue shutting you down all day, but you’re the one who’s going to resort to petty insults because you’ve got nothing else going on. I’m just the one who’s going to shut you down via facts or insults, because I’m younger and smarter and better at this than you. But keep it coming, it’s at least entertaining for me :D

        • September 17, 2019 at 1:57 pm
          CommLinesAgent says:
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          I refuse to accept you would ever sully your conscience by stepping foot in a bar Craig.

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:34 pm
            craig cornell says:
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            Oh my god. So clever! (For you I mean. For everyone else, pretty damn boring.) In the interest of being funny for everyone reading your drivel, try a little harder. Or make a comment that is on point with the subject at hand for a change.

            Either way, I won’t wait up.

        • September 17, 2019 at 2:21 pm
          Craig Cornell says:
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          The smell is different between nicotine vaping and THC vaping, dufus. The devices are usually different for THC vaping. Try to keep up, Dr. Science.

          And I thought you said you were a scientist but you don’t know the percentage of vapers who consume THC!?!?!!

          • September 17, 2019 at 2:51 pm
            Jon says:
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            I’m well aware of the fact that the smell of nicotine vaping and THC vaping is different. Which is why the majority of marijuana users that I know won’t risk using a THC vape in a public place, like a bar. Because they tend to frown on that kind of thing. Which is why I think your claims that you can go to “any bar” and see it are nonsense. Common sense dictates if it’s illegal to do it in public, and the smell makes it clear as to what you’re doing in public, most people probably aren’t doing it in public. Stop using idiotic nonsense to try and justify your lack of logic.

            It looks like you might be the one having trouble keeping up, Craig. Sundowning already?

            You’re using a straw-man argument once again. You’re trying to argue the amount of people who vape versus who consume THC now. You don’t have a logical argument, you’re just mad at the world and want to argue because you don’t like marijuana, period. It’s pathetic.

          • September 17, 2019 at 3:50 pm
            confused says:
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            “And I thought you said you were a scientist but you don’t know the percentage of vapers who consume THC!?!?!!”

            what an absurd comment. besides jon not saying he was a scientist you are attacking him because he does not know of a study that does not exist. Einstein claimed to be a physicist but did not agree with relativistic quantum field theory. he must not have been a scientist or a very good scientist then. right craig?

          • September 17, 2019 at 4:53 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            “a study that does not exist”. Wrong again, Einstein:

            In a paper published Monday in JAMA Pediatrics, a team of researchers at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that about 1 in 11 US students between 6th and 12th grades had used cannabis products in e-cigarettes in 2016. This comes out to about 1.7 million high-schoolers and 425,000 middle-schoolers.

            The researchers also broke down the numbers for just the students who have used e-cigarettes: One-third of high school e-cigarette users reported that they’d consumed marijuana products with the devices, and one-fourth of middle school e-cigarette users reported that they’d vaped marijuana products.

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:05 pm
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
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            Craig; we have given the stoning supporting crowd several studies, but they prefer their biased studies from distant years and sources that likely include stoners in the ‘research’ organization.

            The vaping issue has become the focus of health professionals for good reasons, including the staggering stats on how many juveniles are vaping marIJuana. I await more conclusive, credible-source evidence of the harm done by VAPING pot… and it’s not far off.

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:07 pm
            Jon says:
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            So let me follow this series of events.

            1. You argue that there are “a LOT” of cannabis vape smokers, and ask me for numbers regarding how many users of vape cannabis versus how many of vape nicotine.
            2. I refute that statement and provide my reasoning
            3. insultingly act like I wasn’t aware that the two chemicals smell different, then criticize me for not having the information on the ratio of cannabis to nicotine vapers
            4. I offer more logic and reason behind my argument that nicotine vapers outweigh cannabis vapers based on personal experience
            5. Confused points out the irony of you requesting information on a study that doesn’t exist
            6. You post data from an unrelated study that DOES NOT CLARIFY the number of users of cannabis vape materials versus nicotine vape materials, just offers information on a number of students (non-legal, underage users of both products, of which we were previously talking legal users).

            So basically you’re doing the straw-man again. You don’t have any evidence to back up your argument, so you’re pivoting to a different argument in an attempt to not just admit you were wrong about something. Again. You’re pathetic and boring, Craig.

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:11 pm
            Jon says:
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            Polar, you’re a liar. You literally do not post studies or information, you’ve said this multiple times and talked about Google which you insist on making a big deal about because you believe anyone posting facts you disagree with is a leftist and untrustworthy. Additionally, none of the information Craig has posted has ever actually lined up with his blatantly false statements. He has LITERALLY posted an article with a FAKE QUOTE attributing the quote to the article when it doesn’t exist. Remember that, Craig? When you posted a quote as if a researcher claimed Marijuana caused Psychosis, but in the six links you posted that quote wasn’t featured? Because I remember. I have it saved on my home computer, I’m happy to post the link later.

            Your issue is with Marijuana, that’s fine and you don’t have to like it. But you’re kidding yourself if you think kids weren’t accessing marijuana before vaping became a thing. The issue with vaping is the additives, it otherwise is still marijuana you have a problem with. You’re just trying to spread more fear and misinformation here as you do on any article involving marijuana, the problem is the facts refute your argument.

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:31 pm
            craig cornell says:
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            So, Dr. Science can say the most absurd, insulting things that are totally off-point (eg. in reality, LOTS of people vape THC here in California, and nobody feels they might get “kicked out of a bar”), and you are cool with that.

            Did you attend the same 2nd Grade as Dr. Feel Good?

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:40 pm
            Jon says:
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            Again, putting words in my mouth. I am well aware that lots of people vape THC here in California, I just pointed to my personal experience, that not many do it publicly at bars. You’re the one who’s insisting that you know what “lots of vapers” do in California, and claiming that you somehow know “nobody feels like they might get kicked out of a bar” really? How many bars do you go to these days Craig? I’ve mentioned that my argument was based on personal experience, but I don’t think you actually go to many bars because I can’t imagine anyone wanting to drink with you. Do I have to post the quote from you again, or are you actually going to try and back up any of your ridiculous claims? That’s what I thought.

            I don’t even know what you’re talking about now you crazy old jerk LOL

          • September 17, 2019 at 9:36 pm
            Jax Agent says:
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            Jon, there you go again, name calling. “Old man”, and “crazy old jerk” and other degrading things. How would you feel if everyone on this message board referred to you as….I don’t know….”sissy” ? Or what about, “Queerbait” or “Trannywannabe” ?
            You wouldn’t like it very much, would you ?
            Stick to your point. Try to be tolerant of others’ point of view even if you disagree and even if they aren’t tolerant of you and yours.
            There are people that post regularly on this message board that are dogmatic, to say the least. Don’t be one of them. Try to rise above it……i’ll do the same.

          • September 18, 2019 at 1:25 am
            Jon says:
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            hI, Jax! So did you see the posts above, where Craig tells me to “keep up, Dr. Science” insulting my intelligence, then he follows it up with the next post by saying “Wrong again, Einstein” and asks me if I attended the same 2nd grade as Dr. Feel Good? These were his attempts at insults. My responses were related to the conversation before he started it. You see how you point out my behavior but completely ignore his because he aligns with your political beliefs? That’s what we call “hypocrisy”. Your calls for tolerance of others seems pretty selective, I wonder why?
            Secondly, your inquiry into my feelings if I was referred to as “sissy, queerbait or trannywannebe” are oddly specific and really concerning. Sexuality is a spectrum and your use of these terms as an insult are intolerant, ignorant and in poor taste. I can see the point you were trying to make, but when you combine that with the partisan bias I’ve pointed out above, it’s a really generally offensive attempt at a one-sided resolution.
            I can respect trying to better your posts, I’ve actually been dialing back the offense and sticking to the facts more and more with my arguments. The issue is, some of the people on your side are legitimately suffering from serious mental health disorders. In the last week one of you has threatened me, another has lied about the “evidence” he’s linked to by posting quotes that weren’t actually featured in the article linked to, and all of you have displayed hypocritical behavior at an astounding level. Does any of this seem like stable behavior? Perhaps you should look inward, while claiming I should try to rise above? I’m just saying, maybe I’m not the one who should be trying harder.

          • September 18, 2019 at 1:43 pm
            JaxAgent says:
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            Jon, to be sure, I don’t have a ‘side’ here. I tend to be conservative (if that is what you mean) but I don’t always agree with the other posters be they conservative or be they not. Yes, I see what Craig has to say and I wonder why that would bother you at all. You and I can’t control anyone’s behavior on this message board but our own. When I read some of your posts, I think, “ok, that makes sense” right up till you go to the ‘old man’ card, or some other variation.
            “Secondly, your inquiry into my feelings if I was referred to as “sissy, queerbait or trannywannebe” are oddly specific and really concerning. Sexuality is a spectrum and your use of these terms as an insult are intolerant, ignorant and in poor taste.” And if you address a 70 year old as ‘old man’ . . . . . . age is a spectrum and your use of………
            I frequently read things here that make me angry and my responses are not anything I’m proud of. But I know it, admit it, own it and try to do better.

            Do what you want to do, but don’t forget the old axiom, “Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” Besides, having the last word can be exhausting and rarely means that you are right.

          • September 18, 2019 at 2:15 pm
            Jon says:
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            Ha, I actually respect that post. I can understand what you’re saying and you certainly do make valid points. My responses to Craig at this point are based on our historical back and forth more than the individual interactions. He has been so offensive and over the top in prior posts that I go from zero to 60 as soon as he starts, but there is wisdom in your response. I have actually been trying to dial back the insulting nature of my posts a bit, but to be honest Craig is SUCH a fuddy fuddy it’s really quite fun jabbing at him. I can admit that I often stoop down to his level, but it’s kind of fun sometimes :P

  • September 17, 2019 at 1:53 pm
    FFA says:
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    “CDC has made it a priority to find out what is causing this outbreak of e-cigarette or vaping-related injuries and deaths,” CDC Director Robert Redfield said in a statement.”

    Maybe its the E Cig & the vape device. Maybe its the juice they put in it.

    there are two solutions. 1) ban them.
    2) Dont ban them. When people get sick and or die, let them. Its their choice.

    • September 17, 2019 at 2:01 pm
      Jon says:
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      People are getting sick and dying from an incorrectly made product. If a children’s toy is made in such a way that it presents a choking hazard and children could possibly die from using it, we recall that item. If an item meant to be inhaled features a harmful additive, we recall that item and stop using the additive. It’s pretty simple.

      I like that the right’s instant answer is to ban this, meanwhile avoiding anything even close to the same logic being used to fight the gun violence epidemic in this country. Selective logic really doesn’t work for anyone.

      • September 17, 2019 at 2:05 pm
        FFA says:
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        Did you see my second option? Cigs are not banned. Why ban these? Its a personal choice.

        • September 17, 2019 at 2:08 pm
          Jon says:
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          I don’t agree with banning them, but I don’t think we should continue to allow them to make people sick as they’re doing. It seems like the evidence is pointing to a harmful additive, I would say it’s far easier to ban the use of the additive and hold those spreading it’s use accountable for the deaths. The people doing business properly continue to do business, no one has a freedom taken away in the process.

          • September 17, 2019 at 2:35 pm
            FFA says:
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            On the news last night – local and national – they were saying its likely the flavor additive. Theory I have been hearing is the Vitamin E in the additive is causing fat to grow on the inside of the lungs. Whats the purpose of the vitamin E? .

            Anyways, pull the flavor back, all you have is basically steam nicotine.. IF THAT IS THE CASE, then whats the point? Boil some cigs and call it a day!

          • September 17, 2019 at 4:55 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            What if the “harmful additive” turns out to be THC condensed into gel form that is the cause of lung damage.

            You good with banning it then, Pot Head?

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:15 pm
            Jon says:
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            LOL the issue here is you lack any real knowledge and you’re so close-minded you’re totally unwilling to learn.

            People have been vaporizing marijuana and marijuana products for years. Vaporization technology has just hit a point where it’s cheap and accessible, it’s a gold rush, and so there are people trying to take shortcuts. One of those shortcuts has been the additive that has lead to this current hullabaloo. I’m confident in this, because dabbing became a thing like over a decade ago. If you hate marijuana so much, you might want to ACTUALLY research it a little bit so you look less like an uninformed idiot. But I don’t expect you to.

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:20 pm
            Jon says:
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            Additionally, I just want to point out again that you cried and moaned about name-calling and insults, but every post from you today has had some sort of insult thrown my way. I just like to point it out for when you start to cry about myself and others insulting you and your snowflake sensibilities later :D

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:36 pm
            craig cornell says:
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            So Dr. Science already KNOWS the cause of the lung damage. Well, CLUE US IN! Better yet, call the Center for Disease Control right away. I’m sure they are waiting for your call!

          • September 17, 2019 at 5:42 pm
            Jon says:
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            I trust the scientists working on it to do their job and will follow their findings. That says more than you, since the only time you seem even close to willing to trust in science is when there’s a fraction of a percent chance that it could lead to anti-marijuana evidence.

            I like how you’ll refuse scientific evidence tooth and nail regarding climate change, but as soon as there’s a chance pot could have a negative side affect you’re preaching the gospel. You’re a ridiculous hypocrite, but we already know that. You’re just trying to insult without adding anything new, and it’s boring, sad old man.

          • September 17, 2019 at 6:18 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Oh, PLEASE, PLEASE tell me about the science of Climate Change. Schooling you on two subjects is just so much fun!

            Go ahead. Pretend you know what you are talking about and post away your “science”! What fun!

          • September 17, 2019 at 7:27 pm
            CommLinesAgent says:
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            “THC condensed into gel form”

            that sentence reveals your ignorance on the topic of vape production Craig

          • September 17, 2019 at 7:44 pm
            Jon says:
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            Lol nice, CLA. I didn’t even catch that the first time, there’s just so much else to refute whenever he writes anything

          • September 17, 2019 at 9:40 pm
            Jax Agent says:
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            Good on you, Jon. Stay on the high ground…….no pun intended.

          • September 19, 2019 at 2:57 pm
            sak74 says:
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            FFA…….” Theory I have been hearing is the Vitamin E in the additive is causing fat to grow on the inside of the lungs. Whats the purpose of the vitamin E? “……

            I asked my son about this as he has vaped nicotine and marijuana (thankfully he has stopped due to all the issues being reported) and he said the vitamin E additive is used to make the vape juice thicker to appear as though you are getting more……….at least that is his and several others that he knows that also vapes theory on it. Not scientific and no I have no research to back it up, just the opinions of several folks that have use or currently use the products.

          • September 19, 2019 at 3:01 pm
            Jon says:
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            Sak, this is in line with what I’ve heard as well. Vitamin E is good for you so it was thought of as a safe additive, but the effects on lung tissue are turning out to be dangerous unfortunately.

          • September 19, 2019 at 3:20 pm
            sak74 says:
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            Jon…..yes I have read several articles that have stated that when Vitamin E is used as intended in its oil form it is good for you, however now that they are using it in vaping it is changing the oil form and there is a school of thought that the chemical compound is changing and possibly becoming toxic. Personally I feel they are on to something with that line of thought. I will say I do not believe it is the THC alone causing the deaths but something that is being added to the cartridge along with the THC.

    • September 17, 2019 at 5:10 pm
      PolarBeaRepeal says:
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      Think carefully about how many deaths occurred since vaping first caught on as an alternative to nicotine / tobacco.

      Next, count the deaths due to vaping as states legalized marIJuana and vaping pot became en vogue with people consuming marIJuana legally and others doing so illegally because they were underage.

      Draw conclusions if you believe there is credible size and sourced data above.

      I am tending toward believing the recent medical studies that are not concluded, but point to THC as a potential cause of death when vaped. But I’ll await the conclusive studies before deciding.

      • September 17, 2019 at 5:27 pm
        Jon says:
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        Okay, so seven. Seven deaths by my last research.

        So still seven deaths, as marijuana has been legalized. I see no serious record of deaths caused by vaping prior to this incident and the seven caused recently most likely due to this additive.

        Man, did you research this subject AT ALL? You’re believing medical studies that are not concluded that point to the cause of death being THC, but you base this on NO other knowledge or research regarding THC, vaping or anything. That’s fine, if you, you know, avoid common sense. I imagine that won’t be a problem for you.

        Man, your unwarranted bias against Google is really hindering your ability to learn. Isn’t ignorance supposed to be bliss but you guys are always so mad LOL

        • September 17, 2019 at 6:21 pm
          Craig Cornell says:
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          Truly illogical, see-through drivel. If the deaths are’nt from THC, you say are gung ho to find out and ban the deadly agent.

          But if the deadly agent turns out to be THC, well too bad for dead people, it’s “only” seven in the past few weeks.

          At least you make me laugh. (Again, put the bong down, your brain is failing.)

          • September 17, 2019 at 7:46 pm
            Jon says:
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            Lol it absolutely won’t be thc though. I mean maybe in your crazy pants world you’ll believe that no matter what the science says, but the side of reason and logic is against you captain crazy pants. The idea of thc being a “deadly agent” is funnier than your poorly made marketing videos LOL

          • September 18, 2019 at 12:24 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Dumber than Dirt: the CDC is looking at TCH products as a possible cause. But you know better, don’t you Dr. Science.

            To be fair, most of the focus is on THC products that include vitamin E. THC has not been ruled out at this point, but no one knows yet.

            Except you, Professor Clown.

          • September 18, 2019 at 12:30 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Craig – these side effects are happening with both THC vapes and nicotine vapes. If THC was the cause, the side effects wouldn’t occur in nicotine vapes because they don’t contain any THC.

          • September 18, 2019 at 1:09 pm
            helpingout says:
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            I will add some clarification for you Craig that highlights you aren’t really following the story.

            Most people who are using the THC vapes have also reported using Nicotine vapes. There are some people who are just using the THC vapes, but also there are people with this new disease that are only using nicotine vapes.

            If it is the THC doing it, how are those not using the THC also getting this disease? Oh yeah, because the additives that are in both liquids.

          • September 18, 2019 at 3:21 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            If THC was the cause, we’d have at least 1 single case of overdosing THC directly and solely causing death in this history of the plant. But, we don’t. Not one. Zilch, nada, nothing. So, there’s that.

  • September 17, 2019 at 2:13 pm
    sak74 says:
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    Has anyone gotten sick from exposure to second hand vape (similar to second hand smoke)? I know that where I live on the weekends the bars are full of people using their vaping devices. I wish these would be banned as well as I cannot stand the sweet smell most of the liquids have, but if that can also cause a health hazard maybe they should look into banning their use in public similar to cigarettes.

    • September 17, 2019 at 2:37 pm
      FFA says:
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      I don’t think there is enough data to get to that conclusion.Many places I go to dont allow vaping. House rule, not a state thing.

    • September 17, 2019 at 2:55 pm
      Jon says:
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      Sak, I would say most establishments (mind you this is California in the town that started the no-smoking indoors thing for the Nation) frown upon vaping indoors these days. You can’t do it pretty much anywhere but your property or a bar with an outdoor patio. I imagine these kinds of rules are going to begin to trickle into other areas still.

      • September 19, 2019 at 3:05 pm
        sak74 says:
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        I wish that were the case here (Wisconsin), it seems most local bars allow vaping and say nothing even as folks are doing this right at the bar. Hopefully with everything in the news they will start making rules/laws/regulations to outlaw use of these devices in enclosed public spaces. I do worry that the potential is there for harm to be caused to folks NOT actually smoking the vape and just getting it second hand. Seeing that they cannot yet determine what is causing the issue we cannot be certain there isn’t a danger to others around the person vaping.

  • September 19, 2019 at 12:09 pm
    Jack says:
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    Don’t y’all really enjoy John’s name calling?

    • September 19, 2019 at 1:36 pm
      Jon says:
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      Unrelated to the article, and disregards the fact that others started the name calling. Keep the double standard though, it’s okay, it shows the hypocrisy you’re working with.

  • September 19, 2019 at 1:09 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    And surprise, surprise. All of the deaths so far have been linked to (drum roll please) black market THC.

    Let me know when all you Pot Fans want to crack down on black market THC products of all sorts. Until then, let the deaths roll on, right Pot Fans? (As if liberal states like California will ever aim law enforcement at pot sellers. As if. What compassion!)

    • September 19, 2019 at 1:38 pm
      Jon says:
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      FALSE STATEMENT
      The deaths have been linked to black market vape cartridges, technically. Not black market THC. Nice try to continue spreading fear and misinformation under the guise of fact.

      Why would they aim law enforcement at pot sellers? It’s legal in our state. Or do you have a problem with state rights now?

      Additionally, you whined about California not spending any money on anti-marijuana or anti-vaping campaigns. Did you just avoid seeing the IJ article pointing to the $20m add campaign against vaping?

      It’s okay, keep ignoring the facts, I’ll be right here to point out your lies. :)

      • September 19, 2019 at 1:54 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        Oh, Jon. Such dishonesty. The deaths are black market cartridges for THC. Nobody buys black market nicotine products. Such a fool you are. Truly. A pathetic little boy.

        • September 19, 2019 at 1:57 pm
          Jon says:
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          Aside from the needless name-calling (Which Jack was quick to point out against me, yet he avoids with you, wonder why?) your post is an attempt to quietly cover up the way you word things. It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.
          What you said: Deaths linked to black market THC
          What actually happened: Deaths linked to black market vape cartridges containing THC and additives
          You’re trying to manipulate the facts to shine a negative light on the THC, because you are anti-marijuana. The problem is you don’t use facts to do this, you subvert and change them subtly, and you lie about them.

          It’s very similar to how you’ve linked to an article that says that THC MAY cause Psychosis. You have previously posted links, claiming they back up your argument, when they actually refute your argument. You have posted “quotes” from articles that were never actually in the articles. You manipulate and lie. You are a liar and a coward, because now you’re not going to own up to any of the transgressions I’ve pointed out. Keep insulting me, at least the insults I’m throwing your way are factual :)

          • September 19, 2019 at 2:49 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Poor Jon. Such a sad little boy. Incapable of logic and honesty. My point is and will remain valid: liberal states will never crack down on illegal THC, whether in vaping products or any other illegal products.

            For one, it is impossible, which is what anti-legal pot people said from the start; pot is easy to grow in your garage and creating black market product is easy.

            And secondly, liberals don’t believe in marijuana laws.

            So the deaths are on you, Big Boy. And watch them continue while the politicians you support do nothing. Congratulations.

          • September 19, 2019 at 2:59 pm
            Jon says:
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            LOL your name calling doesn’t seem based in anything, since I actually provide my logic and evidence for my arguments. You have refused to acknowledge your behavior when you were claiming that THC caused psychosis (it doesn’t) or even your behavior above claiming it’s black market THC responsible (it’s not, it’s the additive in black market cartridges). You repeatedly make insults regarding my intelligence, but you seem to be mis-stating things left and right. Maybe you should look inward?
            LOL, your attempt to blame the deaths on liberals is pathetic. I’ll accept that responsibility when you accept responsibility for the 19 school shootings so far this year. But you won’t, because you are a coward.

            Why don’t you acknowledge your previous lies about the psychosis? Coward.

          • September 19, 2019 at 3:03 pm
            helpingout says:
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            Can’t gun deaths be attributed to those who oppose stricter gun laws? No, then neither is what you said valid for those who support cannabis legalization.

            Craig, you are laughable, again, you failed to respond to my post above. In addition, it is not the THC, rather the additives. You are the one failing with logic and honesty, but what else would we expect from you?

          • September 19, 2019 at 4:41 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Gun deaths and deaths from legal intoxicants? Apples and papayas.

            But since you brought it up: every single person on Earth knows the danger of guns. Millions of Americans – especially under age Americans – have no idea about the dangers of THC.

            As I have said MANY times, if everyone knew the danger, I am fine with legalized pot for fun. But they don’t. Just look at the butt wipes on Insurance Journal who attack me for posting articles about respected research on the dangers of THC.

            So let me ask you to answer a question: what are the legitimate dangers of THC consumption? (Prediction: a dodge.)

          • September 19, 2019 at 4:43 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            And about your “additive” argument. Dead is dead. If they are dying from consuming black market THC products, that means the lack of enforcement against illegal THC products is the cause of death. Period. (Do you feel better that the dead were killed by something other than THC when it was the THC they were buying?)

          • September 19, 2019 at 5:04 pm
            helpingout says:
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            Hey I mean we have stated numerous times dangers of cannabis, and I am tired of pandering to you and posting it for what would be a dozen times if I did it again. We have even debated about the cause of some issues I have brought up before including… psychosis for first time smokers and people who have predispositions. But that doesn’t mean anything since this is a new thread right?? You seriously are a joke when it comes to this.

            Again some people who have this disease (but haven’t died) have only used nicotine vapes. How are they getting it if it is not in both substances? Can’t that is why it is additives rather than the plant. Good luck being in the dark though Craig. Have a good day.

          • September 19, 2019 at 6:46 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            And as I predicted, you dodged the question. Not very high integrity there, right helpingout?

            Let’s face it: you have NEVER posted the dangers. That makes you low integrity and dishonest. Proud of yourself?

          • September 20, 2019 at 9:43 am
            helpingout says:
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            Craig did you even read what I wrote, or did you read the first line and then skip the rest as I highlighted one danger of cannabis, but no that doesn’t matter, because you want a more tangible list people have posted numerous times (some points we have agreed on: danger to developing brains in children and the fetus for women who are pregnant).

            You are a joke Craig, and you constant bias is only continuing to show. We give into you, but when pressed with our questions you go to goal post shifting and deflection. Then you say you don’t need to do it for us.

            Act better, and learn to read and comprehend people’s post, then maybe you will gain some integrity as you said.

    • September 19, 2019 at 1:47 pm
      Jon says:
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      Also, what would be the problem with just letting marijuana continue as is? Don’t even pretend you care about the deaths, you clearly don’t. You’re a fan of allowing guns to continue despite the wealth of data that shows eliminating gun ownership would nearly eliminate gun violence. More hypocrisy, Craig? It’s getting boring, don’t you have anything else?

      • September 20, 2019 at 10:28 am
        Jack says:
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        Jon- the fact you think “eliminating gun ownership” is even possible proves you are delusional or stoned, or both.

      • September 20, 2019 at 10:30 am
        Jack says:
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        Jon- before you reply, please do some research on what % of people actually participate in “buybacks”. Post some of your research below for us, otherwise shut your piehole about facts.

        • September 20, 2019 at 10:52 am
          Jon says:
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          Jack, after the hateful garbage you’ve posted, I don’t really view you as a reliable source of information, sorry. I think it’s likely you believe the fox news rhetoric and I’ll trust that the world is bigger than you think it is :)

  • September 23, 2019 at 9:38 am
    Brian says:
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    Here is an idea. Stop allowing the sale of this product at every single gas station. Put it back in with the JUST the Smoke Shops. Many people have actually quit cigarettes due to vaping. I do not smoke or vape. Some of these small businesses are going to be crushed when they take E-Cigs off the market, many legit Smoke Shops.



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