Cannabis Banking Challenges in Legal States Go Far Beyond Pot

By Sophie Quinton and April Simpson | October 16, 2019

  • October 16, 2019 at 12:46 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • October 16, 2019 at 1:21 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      “You’re right, Craig. CBD shops are the only ones selling miracle medicines for all kinds of ailments.”
      – GNC

      • October 16, 2019 at 1:28 pm
        craig cornell says:
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        Whataboutism. My point is spot on and you know it. Nobody is claiming GNC products are dangerous and if they were dangerous, OH THE OUTRAGE! Be honest, that’s the truth.

        • October 16, 2019 at 3:47 pm
          Jon says:
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          LOL you recognize whataboutism because you use it regularly? It’s true though, supplements in this country make claims all the time. You’re free as an american to try Yerba Matte if you think it will help you, why are you trying to restrict American freedoms when the government has stated that it’s okay? Go back to Russia with that, Boris.

          • October 16, 2019 at 4:50 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            So you agree with me: Lefties think contaminated CBD products are no problem at all. (I haven’t heard that Yerba Matte has been contaminated, whatever Yerba Matte is. Please fill me in Basement Thinker.)

          • October 17, 2019 at 12:32 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Here you go, Craig:

            https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Those-dietary-supplements-you-re-taking-may-be-13303121.php

            Guess what else gets contaminated? Pretty much anything you ingest. It’s why insurance carriers want to see mock recalls being practiced. It’s why quality controls are critical to both the human and animal food chain. It’s why loss control reps work with their insureds to further strengthen process flow diagrams and HACCP. You think it’s just CBD? Ask Flint about their water.

          • October 17, 2019 at 12:43 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Flint and water. Good comparison. More government failure.

          • October 17, 2019 at 1:09 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            “We hear you, Craig. The private sector never fails!”

            Love – Blockbuster and Sears

        • October 16, 2019 at 4:52 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          No, not whataboutism. I’m not say, but GNC, I’m saying and GNC. My statement is “andism”. CBD stores and GNC are making similar claims. Also, no one is suggesting CBD is dangerous. It doesn’t have THC. GNC has bottles with warnings the claims have not been accepted by the FDA, just like those with CBD. Further, you will find warnings on some of the bottles of GNC about not following the dosage and the dangers that can result. You obviously haven’t taken vitamin supplements, otherwise I’m sure you’d know this. In fact, those pills you can buy to suppress your appetite at your local grocery store also can cause harm. So, who is the one not being honest here?

          • October 16, 2019 at 5:14 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Well, if you aren’t dishonest, you can’t read. We’ve run into this before with you so maybe that’s your problem.

            Per the article, the FDA says many CBD products are being sold illegally and “may be unsafe”. Not me, Kangaroo, the FDA (and they ain’t saying that about GNC products).

            And we already know some of the people who are sick from vaping got their products from legal sources. So the “unsafe” concern seems clearly justified (even if you don’t give a crap because you love pot).

          • October 16, 2019 at 8:27 pm
            ImpeacHam Sandwich Dems says:
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            What are you going to do when the FDA and CDC release final reports on vaping deaths? They WILL make conclusions on fatalities so as to protect the public. No waffling will occur by the FDA or CDC on the question of what caused the deaths… unlike what Warren has been doing on funding reconciliation for MediCare4All.

          • October 16, 2019 at 8:36 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            I said CBD stores, so I am speaking to the legal product. Illegal ones have been shown to have additives like hydrogen cyanide.

            Oh, and if you were being honest, you’d admit that CBD is not pot. You’d also know I don’t love either one. I just understand reality and know this is an emerging risk for our industry, it will be federally legal in a decade or less, and the sooner everyone accepts it, the sooner we can find the best solutions just like other legal intoxicant markets try to do.

          • October 17, 2019 at 6:29 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Yogi,
            What does Elizabeth Warren have to do with this article? When the FDA and CDC release their final reports, I guess I’ll say I told you so. You do realize not 1 person has died from vaping flowers alone and not one death has resulted from ingesting THC alone, correct? There is an additive(s) in the oil solution that is causing the illness/death. The plant can’t do it. Never has, never will. The FDA and CDC will be consistent and say to steer clear of the vaping products, or E-cigs/pens. Those both with and without THC.

          • October 17, 2019 at 7:32 am
            ImpeacHam Sandwich Dems says:
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            @Asteroid: Why haven’t the conclusions you theorized about been released yet? You state them as facts. The CDC hasn’t said so, and has actually pointed to some THC products being used by some of those who died. That they implied THC may be a (one) cause has you upset to the point of ignoring that statement is very revealing. I believe there may be OTHER causes. I would accept the conclusion that a combination of the other materials and THC is fatal. But recent statements by the FDA and CDC are focusing on THC due to the public health implications. The FDA and CDC issued warnings on those products, which isn’t done without reason.

          • October 17, 2019 at 10:26 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Yogi,
            The THC products they are pointing to are ONLY ingested from the oil-based e-cigarette cartridge pens. The CDC knows, as does all of history, it is impossible to die by ingesting THC alone. The CDC is stressing THC pens, because those are the ones most obtained on the black market due to the illegality of recreational MJ use. There are still some nicotine-only carts that are causing this, so the black market is not void of those pens. But, many can just go to their local gas station and pick up a Juul. The black market isn’t as necessary for nicotine-only vape products.

          • October 17, 2019 at 10:39 am
            Jon says:
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            CP, your facts are all valid, but polar is a legitimate crazy person. The CDC can come out and say that THC is perfectly safe and Polar and his ilk won’t believe it. You can’t argue with brain worms. He still thinks his posts are downvoted by bots because he can’t even believe that people don’t like his nonsense.

          • October 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            The CDC can come out and say THC is “totally safe”. HA HA HA HA HA! In a million years, that will NEVER happen because, well, it is clearly not true.

            God, Basement Boy, you do make me laugh. . . did you see bob’s links to the legitimate science that shows the damage THC does to dopamine and seratonin production?

            Maybe that’s why you have no sense of humor anymore that could stop you from making such dumb comments.

          • October 17, 2019 at 1:11 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Why would the CDC do that, Craig? Anyone with even the slightest common sense understands there is no such thing as a safe intoxicant. By its nature, it impairs one’s ability(ies). Hence, not safe. You act like Eureka when it’s clearly just, duh!

          • October 17, 2019 at 1:42 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Craig,
            Even you know Jon is making a hypothetical in a hyperbolic sense in order to make a point that there are those who will never change their minds, correct? You aren’t trying to suggest something else misleading and dishonest with us, now are you?

          • October 17, 2019 at 2:13 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Even if the American Psychiatry Association and the AMA came out and declared a link between THC and psychosis, some people wouldn’t believe it.

            There, fixed it.

          • October 17, 2019 at 2:24 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Ah, goalpost shifting again. Never would have guessed that to be your response.

            Since it’s inevitable CBD and MJ will be federally legal, don’t you think we should spend more time discussing how to solve for this emerging risk rather than acting like it’s going away? Our company is certainly looking at it from that perspective. We know we will be behind the 8 ball, as there are markets for it as it currently stands. But, we will be positioned for the marketplace once it becomes federally legal. I also think, like you, there needs to be a continued effort to educate the youth, as well as warn adults, about the ramifications of choosing to partake. Much like we do with other legal intoxicants today.

          • October 17, 2019 at 2:30 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Educating youth?

            But so many IJ posters say I am full of it when I link to science about the dangers.

            What should we warn “youth” about? Why not warn adults? And who is “we”?

            Clearly, that is not happening in California to any degree. I have never seen a single warning about psychosis, loss of IQ, schizophrenia, damage to seratonin and dopamine controls in the brain etc. etc. etc.

            So again, who is going to be warning anyone when so many people deny there the dangers? And when a big state like California not only won’t warn about legal pot, but won’t warn about black market pot?

            Pray tell.

          • October 17, 2019 at 2:50 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            About how old are you, Craig? We have been educating the youth about tobacco, drugs, and alcohol for DECADES. DARE, public announcements, professional speakers at our schools, the ad council, just to name several. I see commercials about stoned driving every time I go to IL to visit friends and relatives.

            You asked, “What should we warn “youth” about? Why not warn adults?”

            Didn’t you read it when I wrote, “…there needs to be a continued effort to educate the youth, as well as warn adults, about the ramifications of choosing to partake.”?

            The “we” is society. Just like we always have. We’ll need to remove MJ from its current drug scheduling in order to test it more before we go soliciting negative and positive effects we aren’t 100% certain about, though. Such as your schizo and psychosis commentary. That hasn’t been fully proven to be CAUSED SOLELY by THC. We won’t know without more testing and we can’t do more testing with its current scheduled status.

          • October 17, 2019 at 2:54 pm
            Jon says:
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            LOL you clearly don’t grasp the meaning of the word “if” it was by no means a real possibility, but a thought experiment. I was making a point, but I see that you completely lack the ability to understand difficult concepts, Craig. No problem.

            Additionally, as has been stated on this and other boards, EVERYTHING affects seratonin and dopamine production negatively. From alcohol, to coffee, to sex. That point is moot.

            The reason you don’t see a warning about psychosis or schizophrenia is because there is no scientific proof that marijuana use causes these, nor will there ever be. you seem to be the only person who can’t understand that correlation is not causation, but again, you don’t seem to grasp difficult concepts. Just petty insults and name-calling, it’s old at this point Craig. Aren’t you tired of younger, smarter people pointing out how wrong you are? It’s not going to stop any time soon at this rate.

          • October 17, 2019 at 2:57 pm
            Jon says:
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            Try to actually read something once in a while instead of drawing false conclusions, Craig. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/health/cannabis-marijuana-schizophrenia.html

          • October 17, 2019 at 5:37 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
          • October 17, 2019 at 6:55 pm
            Jon says:
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            You have posted that study before. A study from Sweden from 1987 that hasn’t been replicated or discussed anywhere else on the internet. Yeah, I think you’re full of it again, Craig. You got caught lying on the very last message board claiming that half of all california children are in poverty (BS refuted) and you’re trying to post a link to an old medical journal document that literally every other study seems to miss. I wonder why that is? Probably because as usual, you’re full of it?

          • October 17, 2019 at 10:58 pm
            Jon says:
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            Another “contributor” article. Ann Macdonald, author of such hits as “Some “natural” therapies may be safe, effective for mental health”
            Weren’t you the one yelling about CBD and other “natural” drugs being proffered as healing items?

            Also: What to do when health problems or medical treatments thwart your love life
            Use your brain to avoid weight gain—by fighting portion inflation
            Why eating slowly may help you feel full faster

            Yeah, I certainly trust that she knows more than the researchers in the study she actually references. The study that does not conclude causation. The study that once again, only shows causation. Aren’t you getting tired of this, Craig? I sure am. You keep finding new links to people claiming “marijuana causes psychosis!” But the studies they reference are ALL The same one that shows correlation, not causation. Because the evidence is not there. You keep trying to find new ways to lie, but that’s all you’re doing. Telling the same lies over and over again.

          • October 17, 2019 at 10:59 pm
            Jon says:
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            The study that once again, only shows correlation* I was having so much fun pointing out another phoney bologna article from Craig that I mis-typed.

          • October 18, 2019 at 9:07 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            From Craig’s “study”:

            “Those most at risk are youths who already have a mother, father, or sibling with schizophrenia or some other psychotic disorder.”

            Ahh, so those who are genetically predisposed. Who would have thought?

          • October 18, 2019 at 12:10 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Craig,
            Not sure why you are inclined to use Kagaroo as much as you do. Just to clarify, it is impossible to insult me. At least to the point to which I give a sh!t. So, if that’s what you are attempting to do, it isn’t working.

            Yes, intoxicants that disrupt one’s mental capacity can indeed…wait for it…lead to mental health issues. Oh my gosh, such a break through! I never would have guessed taking something that messes me up mentally, like ongoing binge drinking or smoking blunts all day, would lead to mental faculty issues. I’m just astonished!

            It’s also duh that intoxicants can trigger something that is already predisposed. I can’t comprehend why you think this is new discovery. I had that figured out the first time I saw “Up In Smoke”.

          • October 18, 2019 at 12:32 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Your effort to lump all intoxicants together is intellectually lazy or dishonest.

            Alcohol is not THC is not heroin is not caffeine.

            Your effort to confuse the issue is so see-through: “hey, intoxicants are intoxicants and so THC is no big deal”.

            Here is news for you, Kangaroo: alcohol and heroin have NOT been linked to schizophrenia. Neither has caffeine or nicotine. If you have one beer a night, you do not lose IQ. But if you smoke one joint a night, you most certainly will.

            There are differences. THC is many ways is more dangerous than other “intoxicants” – and in some ways less dangerous – and your effort to confuse the issue is see through (except on a children’s TV show).

          • October 18, 2019 at 12:48 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            The IJ Moderator must be a THC consumer. My previous comment about schizophrenia was deleted, so here goes again:

            “most at risk” means that other people are also at risk. Get it? People with NO predispostion to schizophrenia are also at risk of becoming permanently schizophrenic from consumption of THC.

            And again, for the 10th time, most people have no idea if they are genetically predisposed to schizophrenia or not. Your cousin was schizophrenic? So what. You need a DNA test to know about your predisposition.

            And all this ignores the point that most people are either ignorant of the danger or deny the danger exists (see comments on IJ from adults).

          • October 18, 2019 at 2:15 pm
            Andrew G. Simpson says:
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            Here it is one more more time for y’all. Comments, no matter how otherwise valid, will be deleted if they contain personal insults and/or are off-topic. These insults might include liar, Basement Boy, puffy chested (whatever that is), Kangaroo, idiot, pervert, slow learner, Lefty, crazy, mentally ill, fool, pathetic, old man, etc. And if your comment only exists to address, criticize or belittle another commenter or person as opposed to addressing the issues or articles, it will be deleted. Try disagreeing with or questioning the arguments or “evidence” of others without insulting them personally and without projecting what you perceive to be their motive, morals or character. I swear some of you insult so often you aren’t even aware you are doing it– it’s automatic. If your comment is worthwhile, it should stand on its own without support from insults or innuendo. In short, speak to the issue, facts and article. If you can’t do that, please do not post. And stop complaining if you are caught and deleted but someone else gets away with it. Life’s unfair.

          • October 18, 2019 at 12:48 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            “alcohol…[has] NOT been linked to schizophrenia.”

            Uhh, except that it has.

            “Increased Risk of Schizophrenia from Alcohol and drugs: Cannabis: 5.2 times —— Alcohol: 3.4 times”

            From: htt p://schizophrenia.com/?p=793

          • October 18, 2019 at 1:36 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Logo for WebMD
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            What triggers schizophrenia?
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            Schizophrenia
            What triggers schizophrenia?
            ANSWER

            Psychotic symptoms can be triggered by many drugs, including alcohol, PCP, heroin, amphetamines, cocaine, and some over-the-counter and prescription drugs.

          • October 18, 2019 at 1:42 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            “To prove conclusively that marijuana use causes schizophrenia, a researcher would have to provide marijuana to a person at risk for schizophrenia. This is not legal, and it is unethical to knowingly expose a person to a hazardous substance. The researcher must also carefully control the person’s environment, eliminating exposure to other variables that are thought to cause schizophrenia. This is neither practical nor ethical.”

          • October 18, 2019 at 2:19 pm
            helpingout says:
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            Craig,

            If you drink one beer at night you will not lose IQ points, we agree on this. If you smoke one joint at night, you will not lose IQ points as they have similar affects on the brain (crazy how people understand this, but you don’t).

            If you binge drink or binge smoke then yes you will lose some IQ points.

            You are again pushing misleading claims, that is not backed in science. Captain pointed out the issues with your misleading claims about schizophrenia. Please learn how to use studies properly.

          • October 18, 2019 at 2:49 pm
            ralph says:
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            Andrew–

            I sincerely respect your guidelines and understand you have to delete insulting comments. Things have really gotten out of hand lately and you have better things to do than babysit us. Just wondering….what if the comment is really, really funny? Can you keep it up for a while and THEN delete it? I have a rule at my house that if one of my kids does something wrong but it’s still pretty funny, the punishment won’t be as harsh.

          • October 18, 2019 at 3:51 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Andrew,
            I’m with you on that whole puffy-chested thing. I keep picturing that pirate-like shirt Seinfeld wore for some reason. Have a good weekend and hopefully we all play better in the sandbox next week.

          • October 18, 2019 at 4:25 pm
            ralph says:
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            BUT I DON’T WANNA BE A PIRATE!!!

          • October 19, 2019 at 12:26 am
            Jon says:
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            I’m also just really happy I’m not the only one who finds puffy chested just frigging weird

  • October 17, 2019 at 1:39 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    safe
    adjective
    1.protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost.

    intoxicated
    adjective
    1: affected by alcohol or drugs especially to the point where physical and mental control is markedly diminished

    Wait, NO WAY! Those 2 don’t go together? You have to be kidding me!

  • October 17, 2019 at 7:13 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    AUGUST 29, 2019

    Statement Attributable to:
    Patrice A. Harris M.D., M.A.
    President, American Medical Association

    “The American Medical Association commends the Surgeon General for issuing an advisory today on the harmful health effects of cannabis use by pregnant women and youth. We strongly support this effort as the AMA has long discouraged cannabis use by youth, pregnant women, and women who are breastfeeding and has called for research to determine the consequences of long-term cannabis use in these populations.

    “The AMA has urged legislatures to delay legalizing cannabis until further research is completed on the public health, medical, economic, and social consequences of its use. In states that have already legalized cannabis, the AMA has urged jurisdictions to take steps to regulate the product effectively to protect the health and safety of high risk populations and the public.

    • October 17, 2019 at 11:02 pm
      Jon says:
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      LOL what does that show? That as agreed on previously, pregnant women and youths shouldn’t smoke pot? No one is arguing against that, Craig. That’s just your fallback once your lies and other arguments have failed you, to try and deflect to something you can’t possiblty lose. It’s pathetic that you’re so transparently just trying to win an argument, not actually learn anything or say anything of value. All you’ve got is lies, misinformation, and fallacies.

      • October 18, 2019 at 12:06 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        “urged legislatures to delay legalization . . .” Now, why would that be? If the science on THC was settled, why doesn’t the AMA just issue warnings and move on?

        Because the science on THC is developing in a very negative way.

        But you keep pumping THC into your brain, Jon. We need people like you to lead the way.

        • October 18, 2019 at 12:15 pm
          Jon says:
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          Lol abused. The science on THC is developing in a very positive way, but this country continues to resist because of the prison industrial complex. We have made arresting people for marijuana an industry that pays government dividends via the DEA the courts and the prison system. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that our government is awfully corrupt, and ao of course there are plenty of people with a vested interest in stopping legalization. You have no evidence to back up your wild claims.

          • October 18, 2019 at 12:33 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            ha ha ha ha ha! You say so many untrue things: Pray tell, link me to the science that says THC is good for you! And please, no links to NORML or any other dishonest Pot Pusher.

          • October 18, 2019 at 12:59 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            I’m confused by this comment, Craig. Nobody here has ever posted that THC is good for you. Why are you asking anyone to prove that Straw Man Argument?

          • October 18, 2019 at 6:50 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Apparently, Jon’s comments are invisible to you. “the science on THC is developing in a very positive way”.

            No, please explain to me what is “positive” about the science by linking to the science that says it is good.

          • October 18, 2019 at 7:48 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Positive science regarding marijuana shows it’s beneficial for reducing seizures and increasing appetite in patients receiving chemo. That still doesn’t make it “good”

        • October 18, 2019 at 12:18 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Why are the asking legislators to delay?

          Our AMA urges legislatures to delay initiating the legalization of cannabis for recreational use until further research is completed on the public health, medical, economic, and social consequences of its use.

          That’s why the AMA is urging the delay. I’m guessing those are the same reasons they urge delay legalizing any intoxicant. Happy to help!

          • October 18, 2019 at 12:34 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            But you keep saying that everyone knows the dangers and the States that legalized are doing a wonderful job informing every one.

            What is the AMA talking about? The science that says CBD cures cancer?

          • October 18, 2019 at 1:39 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Dishonest, again, huh Craig?

            I keep saying we need to improve upon the public announcements, but they are being made. You said they aren’t being made in a previous forum months ago. I disputed that. You were wrong. I have never said we are doing a “wonderful job”, but when have you ever stopped putting words in my mouth?

            Everyone knows the dangers of alcohol but it hasn’t stopped the AMA from researching it now has it?

          • October 18, 2019 at 6:51 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            And while the AMA says lets wait until the science is clear, you and all the other Pot Fans say let’s legalize nationally.

            Hmm. Whom should I trust? Pot fans like you or the AMA?

          • October 18, 2019 at 10:55 pm
            Polar T GabBeaRussian Asset says:
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            @Craig: stoners are upset that the AMA continues to study pot and finds more problems in every study. They wish the AMA would cease & desist, and that is evident by their attempts to censor anyone here or elsewhere on the Web that opposes pot or STUDIES IT IN A SCIENTIFIC manner… without bias.

          • October 19, 2019 at 3:08 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Craig,
            The AMA is absolutely still studying alcohol. Most recently, they studied powdered alcohol. Want to take a mulligan on your statement?

          • October 19, 2019 at 3:17 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Oh, good one! Powdered alcohol. (Big market, by the way.) Truly, stop. I realized a long time ago that your powers of logic are weak. Not an insult, just the truth.

            Powdered alcohol? HA HA HA HA. Right. Something BRAND NEW is being studied and you think that doesn’t prove my point about the knowledge we all have about alcohol and the lack of knowledge about THC.

          • October 19, 2019 at 4:20 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            That’s what you wanted to do with your mulligan? Okay, I’ll take the skin again. This is getting too easy.

    • October 18, 2019 at 9:01 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      I don’t think anyone is disputing what you’ve copied here, Craig. In other breaking news, the sun rises in the east.

      Don’t be a tough guy. I’ll call you later.

  • October 18, 2019 at 4:31 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    For those currently offering insurance to this industry, are you finding the amount of cash at the dispensaries hinders your options? Are you hearing there will be a more robust marketplace once this banking issue is solved? I would think it would be difficult to find an underwriter who is comfortable with that cash risk. What is Cannasure saying?

  • October 18, 2019 at 4:35 pm
    Polar T GabBeaRussian Asset says:
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    When will the CDC and FDA reports on vaping deaths be released?
    Everyone will have to wait for them to see if they concluded that multiple materials have caused the deaths in combination with one main ingredient. If that ingredient is not present in at least a significant number of the deaths, it cannot be blamed…. conclusively.

    The important issue is not ONE ingredient, but a combination of ingredients with ONE common ingredient. If so, the ONE ingredient is legally deemed to be harmful, irrespective of the presence of other catalysts. And the word ‘catalyst’ is relevant to the conclusion…. watch for it.

    • October 18, 2019 at 5:27 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Yogi,
      29% of the cases come from nicotine-only vape products. So that ONE ingredient you are referring to isn’t present 1/3 of the time.

      • October 18, 2019 at 10:49 pm
        Polar T GabBeaRussian Asset says:
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        The 29% you quoted is irrelevant to the research into the DOZENS of deaths. It is equivalent to saying 29% of deaths are due to heart attacks, so lung cancer isn’t ever fatal.

        • October 19, 2019 at 3:05 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          No, it is relevant. It’s a result of the research they are doing into the dozens of deaths. 29% of the illnesses/deaths are stemming from nic-vape products only. Want to take a mulligan?

          • October 19, 2019 at 3:20 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Truly, your are either totally incapable of logic or your are dishonest.
            No one has exonerated THC. No one. That is the point.

            There may be more than one “cause” of the illnesses, more than one substance that is making people sick.

            And THC combined with other chemicals may be one of the causes. You might want to stop cheer leading THC until the experts weigh in.

          • October 19, 2019 at 4:40 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Users who vape, vape the flowers only. It has never led to a single death. THC in and of itself cannot kill. FACT. Something is going on inside these vape pens, both with and without THC. Researchers have indicated vitamin E acetate as well as hydrogen cyanide, ingredients you will not find in the naturally growing plant, could be contributing to these illnesses and deaths. They are finding most are coming from black market THC pens. And, as everyone knows, it is impossible to regulate the ingredients being used in black market products. If you want to still use, but prevent these illnesses and deaths, stick with flowers only. Should Craig’s and Yogi’s dreams come true, and THC combined with CYANIDE (yep, poison – not sure anything else needs to be combined with poison, but, I’ll play along) be the cause, you’ll be going back to flowers anyhow.

          • October 21, 2019 at 12:44 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. You still haven’t exonerated THC combined with anything else. YOU have no idea if the combination of THC and Cyanide is the issue. You made that up. And limiting your consideration to only deaths when thousands are sick is so pathetic.

            Christian? Not according to the 10 commandments.

          • October 21, 2019 at 1:42 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Craig,
            Please re-read, because I clearly wrote, “could be contributing to these illnesses and deaths.”

            I am speaking to those who are sick as well.

    • October 18, 2019 at 5:34 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      And another thing, I don’t think anyone is suggesting THC doesn’t have the potential to cause harm. It does, it’s an intoxicant. All intoxicants can cause harm. It can also be used moderately and responsibly by adults, just like other legal intoxicants. And, America is speaking loudly and clearly, a majority want it legal nationwide.

      • October 18, 2019 at 8:00 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        Right. Beer and heroin and THC, all the same. Except THC can’t be physically addictive, right?

        • October 19, 2019 at 3:01 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Not the same, and you’re right, in the classic sense, THC is not physically addictive due to is solubility. It can be psychologically addictive, though. You will not see withdrawal symptoms, but that doesn’t mean the user craves it any less. Here, this article helps shed a little more light and may argue some of the points you have tried to argue:

          “So the question is, how does marijuana compare to these classically addictive drugs? Estimates vary, but compared with tobacco, which hooks about 20% to 30% of smokers, marijuana is much less addictive, coming in at 9% to 10%. In contrast, 23% to 25% of heroin users get addicted, along with 15% of alcohol users and 15% to 20% of those who use cocaine.

          Marijuana is the most heavily used drug in the country — by their 20s, 56% of Americans have tried it — but only 16% of people who are in addiction treatment report that marijuana is their primary drug. In contrast, just 2% of young adults have ever tried heroin, but heroin addicts make up 14% of treatment admissions.

          Overall, then, addiction rates for marijuana are significantly lower than for other drugs, both legal and illegal.”

          • October 19, 2019 at 3:23 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Both the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) identify marijuana as an addictive drug.

            People with marijuana use disorders often develop significant physical dependence to the drug, meaning that the person’s system comes to rely on the presence of the drug to function normally.

          • October 19, 2019 at 3:49 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Actually, tobacco is worse – it will alone kill you. And, it wasn’t my argument – hence the quotation marks. I am resourcing researchers’ studies.

            People don’t go to nicotine rehab? Really? My mom has gone to hypnotists, week long retreatment seminars, and there is an entire area of every drug store with products meant for self-rehab.

            The facts and consequences of using THC alone don’t back up your crusade, Craig. Americans want it legalized and it will be, sooner than later. But I know you will never quit fighting. Which is admirable.

          • October 21, 2019 at 12:46 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            You are continuously disingenuous.

            Hypnosis is NOT rehabilitation. Geez, what a joke. No one ever says they are going to “rehabilitation” for nicotine. Ever.

            Except you.

          • October 21, 2019 at 1:49 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Doctors often prescribe treatment for outpatient nicotine treatment. From The Betty Ford Clinic:

            Most inpatient alcohol and other drug treatment centers have a protocol for the treatment of nicotine dependence. Treatment of nicotine dependence does not require inpatient treatment. The protocol for dealing with this addiction can be accomplished effectively as an outpatient.

            Any physician is capable of providing the medication and the support to help a patient get off the drug and stay off. First of all, the Fagerstrom Questionnaire is administered to assess the degree of nicotine dependence. On the basis of this simple assessment the strength (megs/day) of the transdermal nicotine patch can be determined.

            The dose of nicotine can be adjusted over a protocol lasting up to 21 days. The transdermal nicotine patch will greatly relieve the physical symptoms of nicotine withdrawal.

            During this time the patient must pick a “quit date” at which time his smoking days are over. Nicotine withdrawal signs and symptoms include irritability, headache, insomnia, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, nausea and diarrhea. A substitute for the nicotine patch could be a gum, which supplies an amount of nicotine sufficient to allay symptoms of withdrawal. There is supportive literature to encourage the person who is going through the quitting process.

            Most inpatient alcohol and other drug programs, which treat nicotine dependence, are treating alcohol or some other drug dependence as the reason the person is in an inpatient setting.

            Nicotine dependence does not require inpatient care. Motivation to quit must go beyond the generally known statistical information about lung cancer and other issues that are associated with cigarette use.

      • October 18, 2019 at 10:58 pm
        Polar T GabBeaRussian Asset says:
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        I can drink beer at a moderate level over a long period of time and my cerebral functioning isn’t going to be impaired like it is very likely to be if I stoned over a long period of time. Same for tobacco? Probably not. The human body reacts to different substances differently over long periods of time….. e.g. continued use of beer will often yield a beer belly.

  • October 18, 2019 at 4:42 pm
    sak74 says:
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    If this has already been addressed I apologize, I will admit to NOT reading any comments as upon skimming I am pretty sure I know what was being said and want to avoid the headache!

    Ok so my question……are farmers that have business operations that banks will deal with and then also grow hemp finding themselves having the same issues with banking or are they able to fly under the radar because they have traditional business as well? I am just curious how farmers that were growing for instance produce crops and now decide to add hemp to the mix are able to still use their traditional accounts and payment methods as the banks don’t know exactly what they are all growing and there would be no reference in the name of the farm.

    • October 18, 2019 at 11:01 pm
      Polar T GabBeaRussian Asset says:
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      I do not believe farmers will be adversely affected because hemp without THC isn’t a controlled substance, as far as I know, … barring any odd state laws…. so they can disclose what they produce on statements of record to banks and not be hindered. No reasonable bank would object if crop types were fully disclosed on a regular basis.

  • October 18, 2019 at 7:03 pm
    Craig Cornell says:
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    Thanks, Rosenblatt. You gave me a new source for information about THC and schizophrenia. But watch out. Your admission that THC can cause schizophrenia will get the haters after you big time. Jon is loading up his hate gun as we speak.

    From Schizophrenia.com:

    “Regular cannabis users are more than five times more likely to develop a serious mental disorder. Cannabis creates a greater mental health risk than any other substance, including class A drugs, scientists have found.

    Those who abuse the drug – now more potent than ever in the form of super-strength ‘skunk’ – are 5.2 times as likely to develop schizophrenia as someone who had never smoked it.”

    • October 18, 2019 at 7:53 pm
      Rosenblatt says:
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      I never said it CAUSED schizophrenia. The citation clearly said it can increase the risk of it. Please don’t put words into my mouth.

      • October 18, 2019 at 7:58 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        So if there is an increased risk from using something, that something is innocent. Completely unrelated to the consequence. And that is the reason Schizophrenia.com made the comment they did. Because THC can’t “cause” schizophrenia. But users are “5.2 times” more likely to develop schizophrenia. But THC can’t cause it.

        Rosenblatt. Have some pride. The hair splitting is embarrassing.

        • October 19, 2019 at 11:58 am
          Rosenblatt says:
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          Craig, please try to remember i keep saying that marijuana is not safe or innocent or “good”. You keep trying to claim I’ve said those things and I have never said. Again, please stop putting words into my mouth.

          As for your “completely unrelated” nonsense, since there is a CORRELATION there is obviously SOME relation. That does NOT mean it CAUSES schizophrenia though. Words and their definitions matter.

          • October 19, 2019 at 2:16 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Okay, Rosenblatt. Tell your relatives that there is no evidence that THC “causes” schizophrenia, that all the experts are wrong, that it is only “correlation” so don’t even worry about it.

            Tell everyone the same, especially kids. Oh, never mind. Most people have no idea of the connection at all (largely due to the deniers like . . .).

          • October 19, 2019 at 2:49 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Craig,
            Did you completely miss what Rosenblatt just said? Can’t you see guys like Rosenblatt and I are both agreeing with you and pointing out some disagreements we have on the subject based on the misinformation you are providing? I know you have a bias. I know you will never stray from that bias. So, I am not attempting to change your mind. But, I am keeping you honest when you mislead any others out here reading the comments page.

            Again, because you and I both know it will be nationally legal in a decade or less, do you want to start talking about how we can best adapt to another intoxicant entering the American marketplace and insurance industry?

          • October 19, 2019 at 3:27 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Then why say THC does not “cause” schizophrenia when the experts tie it to schizophrenia? When many people who would never become schizophrenic WILL become schizophrenic from the use of THC?

            In fact, 5 times MORE people will become schizophrenic if they use THC regularly than if they never used THC.

            Why even parse words in the face of that tragic consequence? Do the math. How many people are going to become permanently schizophrenic from THC who would have had a normal life otherwise?

            What are you ever arguing? Truly, what is wrong with you?

          • October 19, 2019 at 3:55 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Well, why say it doesn’t cause it has something to do with science. And, per the science, once again I’ll provide you the following, “To prove conclusively that marijuana use causes schizophrenia, a researcher would have to provide marijuana to a person at risk for schizophrenia. This is not legal, and it is unethical to knowingly expose a person to a hazardous substance. The researcher must also carefully control the person’s environment, eliminating exposure to other variables that are thought to cause schizophrenia. This is neither practical nor ethical.”

          • October 19, 2019 at 7:24 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Craig – you know I don’t think marijuana is good, safe, or innocent so why would you think I would tell my family not to worry about it? It’s like you’re not even listening.

          • October 20, 2019 at 10:22 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Rosenblatt,
            It is clear to me you aren’t advocating for it. You have clearly stated time and time again, you do not believe it is safe. Your commentary is objective and unbiased. I appreciate it and believe you are looking at this subject from a similar perspective to mine. It isn’t going away, it is going to be federally legal in our very near future, so how do we manage this emerging risk? Is my assessment fair and accurate?

          • October 21, 2019 at 12:41 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            And yet you both keep twisting the science. Rosenblatt says he doesn’t believe THC “causes” schizophrenia. Why parse words?

            And CP says you can’t become addicted.

            Both statements are false. What’s the point of defending THC with false claims?

            And then CP says we know as much about THC as alcohol! HA HA!

          • October 21, 2019 at 1:23 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            That isn’t what I said. Let’s see what I did say:

            OCTOBER 19, 2019 AT 3:01 PM
            Captain Planet says:
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            Not the same, and you’re right, in the classic sense, THC is not physically addictive due to is solubility. It can be psychologically addictive…

          • October 21, 2019 at 1:41 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Please Craig, find anywhere I said we know as much about THC as we do alcohol. Enlighten me about when I said that. Conversely, I specifically said we need to change the scheduling of THC so we can test it more.

          • October 21, 2019 at 1:43 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Why parse phrases like “causes” schizophrenia and “increases the risk of” schizophrenia?

            Because they mean two TOTALLY different things.

            It baffles me why you seem to be poo-pooing the importance of differentiating between a correlation and a causation.

            Simple question: would you say that having unprotected sex *causes* HIV or *increases your risk* of contracting it?

          • October 21, 2019 at 1:53 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Please elaborate. If consumption of THC increases my chances of becoming permanently schizophrenic by a factor of 5 times compared to people who never consume THC, how is that NOT causation?

            Pray tell, Dr. Rosenblatt. And then tell me the practical reason we shouldn’t be telling everyone that if they don’t want to become schizophrenic from THC’s massively powerful increase on the chances, they shouldn’t ever use THC.

            Clue me in.

          • October 21, 2019 at 2:13 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Back up …. do you think unprotected sex *causes* HIV or *increases your risk* of getting it? If you can’t answer that simply, I respectfully request you head over to your search engine of choice, type in “correlation versus causation” and try to educate yourself on the difference and why these terms should not be used interchangeably.

          • October 21, 2019 at 2:19 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            And would you advise someone not to use protection in order to avoid the possibility of HIV? Don’t worry, it “doesn’t cause HIV not to use protection.” Right.

            Then why not warn people about THC and schizophrenia? Why parse words? Do you WANT people to become schizophrenic? You don’t care?

            Clue me in. Makes NO sense to try to parse words here. But you keep doing it for some reason.

          • October 21, 2019 at 2:41 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            1. Driving drunk does not cause traffic accidents. It just increases the risk.

            2. Many people drive drunk and do not have accidents.

            3. Therefore, it is okay to tell people they can drive drunk. Dr. Rosenblatt.

          • October 21, 2019 at 3:25 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Craig, for at least the 3rd time in this thread alone….

            You know I don’t think marijuana is good, safe, or innocent so why would you think I would tell people not to worry about it? It’s like you’re not even listening.

            There’s a difference between warning people about the increased risk of their actions and fear-mongering by lying and exaggerating.

            I want to give adults accurate and honest information and let those people make their own informed decisions about what to do.

            I don’t want to lie and have the lie be the basis for the “informed decision making” because, it can’t be an informed decision if you’re basing it on half-truths or flat out lies.

          • October 21, 2019 at 5:20 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Craig,
            Sex is risky with and without protection. Consequences can and do happen whether one is protected or not. We all agree, correct? I just want to follow the analogy both you and Rosenblatt are discussing.

            Okay, THC is risky. All 3 of us agree. And, the current phenomenon has to do with these pulmonary illnesses and deaths related to, but not solely related to, THC vape pens. So, if you want to protect yourself against those illnesses and death, one should ingest it in any other fashion than the vape pens. There can still be other consequences for ingesting THC whether you eat it, smoke it, or vape flowers only, but you will protect yourself against the vaping epidemic that is systemic to the vape pen products.

          • October 21, 2019 at 6:03 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            “To prove conclusively that cigarette use causes cancer, a researcher would have to provide cigarettes to a person at risk for cancer. This is not legal, and it is unethical to knowingly expose a person to a hazardous substance. The researcher must also carefully control the person’s environment, eliminating exposure to other variables that are thought to cause cancer. This is neither practical nor ethical.”

      • October 18, 2019 at 10:45 pm
        Polar T GabBeaRussian Asset says:
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        100% correlation causation isn’t necessary in the case of fatalities. If SOME fatalities aren’t due to THC in combination with a catalyst, that doesn’t mean ‘THC & Catalyst’ is ‘safe to use’. It might mean those other fatalities may be due to subjects with weak immune systems.

        Substitute ‘schizophrenia’ for ‘fatalities’ in the above for another perspective.

        Chemical substances rarely react alone.

        • October 19, 2019 at 2:44 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Yogi,
          No one is saying any intoxicant is “safe to use”, including THC. What we do know about THC, compared to other intoxicants is, it is impossible to OD to the point of death on THC alone. So, whatever that is worth or not worth, it is a fact. And, when a majority of Americans want this legalized, that same sample will point to the fact that other legal intoxicants can cause death by ingestion of them alone. Please dont’ confuse that with being “safe to use”.

    • October 19, 2019 at 8:43 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      Craig,
      Skunk weed has been around for at least 40 years, I’m willing to bet longer. So has “creeper” weed. You don’t seem to know what you think you know. Regular use of MJ is not “new”. How can you honestly type that?

      • October 19, 2019 at 3:35 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        Alcohol: thousands of years of experience with millions of lifetime users.

        THC: 40 years experience of occasional use by thousands.

        Stop. You make insane comments in the defense of your beloved THC nearly every time now.

        • October 19, 2019 at 3:39 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          “An ancient Greek historian named Herodotus described the Scythians—a large group of Iranian nomads in Central Asia—inhaling the smoke from smoldering cannabis seeds and flowers to get high.

          Hashish (a purified form of cannabis smoked with a pipe) was widely used throughout the Middle East and parts of Asia after about 800 AD. Its rise in popularity corresponded with the spread of Islam in the region. The Quran forbid the use of alcohol and some other intoxicating substances, but did not specifically prohibit cannabis.”

        • October 19, 2019 at 3:41 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          I don’t love THC. I don’t partake. I just realize it is going to be a legal part of this society in a decade or less. I’ve accepted that reality.

        • October 20, 2019 at 8:51 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Craig,
          Seriously, hundreds of thousands of college students alone have been regularly using (2-3 times a day) for much longer than 40 years. Your statement is completely false. And, they went on to become successful professionals, many of whom had no problem quitting smoking because they just grew out of it. Or, they didn’t want it in the house where they are raising a family. Cold turkey, no problem, didn’t even think twice about it. I know at least 50 people like that. And, a few who still do smoke fairly regularly. They function just fine, highly successful at work (including the surgery medical field), and are leaders in their communities. I say, to each their own. If they can do it responsibly, more power to them. I bet you couldn’t even tell when they’ve smoked. You are surrounded by people like them every day. Many civilizations have been using over the course of history, as I pointed out above. I have a duty to correct you when you are spreading misinformation.

          • October 21, 2019 at 12:38 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Sounds great. You know better than the AMA. Of course, you said THC was not addictive. Then you said it wasn’t phsically addictive.

            Both statements are false. So apparently, using “cannabis” for thousands of years hasn’t taught you much.

            P.S. India reported psychosis as a routine result from cannabis use in the early 20th century, one reason Britain banned it. And yet Insurance Journal posters say it is not possible to become psychotic on THC.

            So, what is it? We know everything about cannabis? Or we just lie about it?

          • October 21, 2019 at 1:38 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Not at all what I said and anyone who has read my commentary out here on the subject knows better. I wish you’d quit misleading others out here, but I won’t hold my breath.

            I’m not saying I know more than the AMA. I am saying I know more than you. I am saying it can be done responsibly and in moderation. I am saying we as a society need to deal with the reality that this intoxicant will be legal in all 50 in a decade or less. I am saying your crusade is admirable, biased, and is a lost cause.

          • October 21, 2019 at 1:51 pm
            Craig Cornell says:
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            Sounds great. But again, the AMA disagrees with you and your false statements that we know as much about THC as alcohol and your false statements about addiction.

            So does the American Psychiatry Association.

            But we should listen to someone like you. Because there are so many ignorant Americans about THC. Right.

          • October 21, 2019 at 4:32 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Sounds great, but I didn’t say those things about addiction and alcohol. So, you are misinforming again. My commentary track record speaks for itself and anyone who has actually read it knows you summation of my points isn’t remotely accurate to the truth.

  • October 19, 2019 at 6:55 am
    ImpeacHam Sandwich Dems says:
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    Per my review of the ‘Occupational Medical Group Warns Congress Legalized Cannabis is Workplace Risk’ article comments page (copied to archives) before it was deleted, a large percentage of the acidic comments were due to non-insurance pro poster, Jon. His name is appropriate for his potty mouth replies to those whose opinions conflict with his own opinions.

    There were 74 comments total before the page was deleted. Thanks, Andrew!

  • October 19, 2019 at 3:17 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Yogi,
    What does that have to do with this article?

    Is this an industry you and your company are servicing? If yes, are you finding the cash on hand to be a difficult exposure to cover? I don’t imagine it’s necessarily and underwriter’s dream risk. What is pricing like? The fire load is heavy, so I imagine property rates could be stout unless the facilities are fully sprinklered. What about GL rate? Are any folks doing this on a composite rate and auditable basis? What is the rate per $1,000 gross sales on something like this?



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