… and Socialist Democrats push for various forms of punishment (e.g. regulations, taxes, etc.) for businesses which succeed in providing products, services, and jobs to US citizens.
Polar – I have yet to see a case where the virus is spread business to business….I think it’s person to person. Why sue a business when the virus came from a human? How does a sick person know they didn’t catch the virus before they show up at a “business” ? You DON’T !! The test doesn’t tell you how long you have been infected and where you caught it.
Oh, I forgot to add a secondary point, to a point which you made fairly well. Businesses are sued in lieu of their proper defendant because of their deep pockets. ATLA lawyers will try to point to the “enticement to gather” created by ‘greedy’ businessmen that was the primary cause of infections and contagion.
We can’t mistaken what is going right now with socialism. There are unfortunate side effects of socialism, but we this would never prevail if this virus has not spread. I like to see what the different states are doing and seeing what works. There are way too many unknowns. However defeating the Coronavirus should be our number one priority regardless, because this is the biggest threat at this point, more so than our politicians. We would also focus on treatments and vaccines as this will be our real ticket back to a wide open marketplace.
You mean the Socialism like herr Trump awarding “small businesses” millions of dollars and every american a $1200 check right, that kind of socialism? I totally agree!
You have been on the precisely other end of this telling people what certain terms mean.
May 7, 2020 at 7:38 pm
Craig Winston Cornell says:
Like or Dislike:
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Take it from the Word Parser Rosenblatt . . . he knows words better than you or I or anyone. And nothing means what you think it does. Just ask him.
May 4, 2020 at 6:40 am
PolarBeaRepeal says:
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“Democrats are pushing for nearly $1 trillion in federal assistance to states and local governments.”
This is a clear example of ‘Taxation without Representation’, applied by fiscally irresponsible states against those which are fiscally prudent. If you believe otherwise, and that the Federal government should bail out foolhardy Governors who’ve run up big state deficits, you’re politically biased or blind. You’re also a willing fool to believe that one group of states can tax the other states through federal acts, legislative or judicial, to subsidize their foolishness and corruption.
“If you believe otherwise, and that the Federal government should bail out foolhardy Governors who’ve run up big state deficits, you’re politically biased or blind…”
So I take it you do not agree with states taking Federal money to balance their budgets on an annual basis, right?
Wouldn’t it be great if brokers had to honestly express their feelings on these issues to their clients:
“Sure, I make good commissions off of your business, but I hope your taxes go up to give more to government and I hope you are sued for Covid 19 violations because, you know, you are a greedy capitalist and all. And I really don’t care that this will hurt your employees either.”
Let’s face it, Washington is playing with monopoly money now, it’s fake. I’m personally ready for it to come crashing down so we can have free everything. Just think, you get up go to work, put your 40 hours in and we all make the same wage, live in the same type of homes, drive the same type of cars. etc. There is no elite anymore. The rich and famous give away their homes and money to make everyone equal, let’s be fair.
Let me know when that happens. Until then, I’m leaving to go home a little early, maybe go sit on the dock, take the boat out and drink a little bourbon and smoke a cigar.
No kidding. How many articles will we read about restaurant owners who can’t re-open until the supplemental Federal unemployment checks stop coming, since so many restaurant workers are now making more by not working that they don’t WANT to come back.
(If we all have the same cars, can it be a Corvette? Would probably thin the herd some.)
Personally, I’ve never been unemployed long enough to apply. But I expect Craig has a much better record, since he touts himself as an expert, right? I didn’t say I was an expert, merely that Craig isn’t. His track record of lies and false statements on this board says as much, I just like to make sure he’s reminded of that.
May 4, 2020 at 2:21 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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“since so many restaurant workers are now making more by not working that they don’t WANT to come back.”
UNPROVEN CLAIM ALERT
My wife works in the restaurant business and EVERY.SINGLE.PERSON she knows wants to go back to work so long as it’s safe. They know unemployment is not an endless well of money and they crave social interaction.
I’m sure your “SO MANY” people claim is not based on any actual data or even on anecdotal data. But whatever, you keep spouting unsubstantiated claims as fact.
He has at least an anecdotal story, you have a false unproven claim, so yeah he’s ahead of you.
Once again Craig, its’ not sea-lioning when people ask you to prove your ridiculous claims, because you lie constantly.
Just the other day you tried to lie that WHO had ENDORSED Sweden’s “no lockout system” which is a lie on multiple fronts. Then you backpedaled to say they praised it, while still not acknowledging the social distancing or fact that they didn’t NEED a lockdown because their citizens actually adhered to social distancing. You spread lies and then yell that people are sea-lioning when they ask you for proof. The problem isn’t them asking, the problem is you’re a liar.
May 4, 2020 at 3:21 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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1) Obviously my anecdotal story is just that. I did not pretend otherwise.
Sealioning – consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions
2) Explain how you think I am sealioning when I didn’t ask you to prove your argument with data or evidence. I presumed you had no data and left it at that – I didn’t ask you to prove your argument, did I?
May 4, 2020 at 3:37 pm
sak74 says:
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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I cannot speak to ALL restaurant workers because obviously I do not know them all, but I feel the following may apply to many…..
My mom works for a local supper club in small town Wisconsin. They have a loyal following and have been able to successfully do the new format of to go only orders. My mom does get unemployment plus the additional federal unemployment. She and the other restaurant employees will all tell you the same thing, they are grateful they have the unemployment right now to help but they cannot wait to go back to business as normal as they make a lot more in tips when people can sit down as opposed to having to go only.
I have several friends that also bartend who have told me the same thing. Unemployment is great and helpful but they make better money in tips when they have customers coming in and sitting down.
Those employee would rather be back to work than sitting home.
I think restaurants and bars that can’t reopen will most likely be due to they financially can’t, not that they have no workers.
100% agree with you, sak. Another thing I’ve been hearing from my wife’s associates who work in the restaurant industry is that they KNOW they can’t just sit and collect unemployment forever, which is another reason they want to go back to work.
And who’s to say how much longer the additional federal payment will be rolling in? I can assure you my wife can’t live off $250 a week that the state gives her, so even if she can collect state unemployment, if the fed payment goes away, state unemployment alone means she is not “now making more by not working” (she’s not making more WITH the fed payment either, but I know you get what I’m trying to express with that future uncertainty).
I am guessing you guys have never heard of workers in fast food who never get tips and who are getting far more from unemployment than they ever did working.
But the average weekly payment over the past year was $372. That works out to an hourly wage of $9.30 for a 40-hour work week. The $600 sweetener increases that average to $24.30 an hour. If every unemployed worker received that $24.30 average (they don’t), and if every unemployed worker were eligible for unemployment benefits (they aren’t), that would translate, extrapolating from data furnished by EPI, into a wage boost for the bottom 60 percent of wage earners.
“That makes a big difference but it’s temporary,” said Chad Stone, chief economist at the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. “And if you somehow fall through the cracks and don’t qualify for unemployment, as greatly expanded as it is, then obviously, you’re still in the same tough situation as a low income person.”
May 4, 2020 at 1:33 pm
Ellis says:
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Then this opens the door to Medicare For All. If businesses are to be exempt from liability related to Covid-19, then employees and their family will require full healthcare benefits at no cost related to Covid-19 illness and any of its complications. This full healthcare benefit would have to continue even if the employee once sickened by Covid-19 is unable to return to work. The spread the of the virus picked up from a place of business also includes customers. Should the customers’ employer health plan foot the bill? What if the customer is retired? This is where Medicare For All will be forced upon us. I was not for Medicare For All but you cannot allow businesses to side step “the cost of doing business” by placing the burden on the backs of every day people. Otherwise it appears that the government (Republicans) are advocating that people (employees,family, customers) should die for the benefit of profit for employers/business.
I was actually interested in what you had to say until you went of the cliff with the “Republicans are advocating that people should die for the benefit of profit . . . ” And then I no longer took you seriously.
It does not matter whether you take me seriously or not. The fact remains that members of the party and the current administration have gotten behind the push for immunity. If you are a proponent of alternate facts then you are taking yourself too seriously.
So, if we allow businesses to be sued for something when no one can prove the business was even negligent in creating the illness, you don’t see a problem. You don’t see how many shake down lawsuits will follow. Really? You can’t see THAT?
I don’t take you seriously because of your ignorant suggestion that these situations will lead to expanded MediCare. And, more important, I don’t believe expanded immunity will be granted on a blanket basis to all businesses.
Actually, it leads to no such thing as expanded MediCare, where the Federal government controls your health care decisions, and the expansion of the current fraud and waste leads to economic collapse; e.g. Venezuela.
It’s your turn …to spew lies about how it succeeds in Socialist countries.
Healthcare costs in the US escalated AFTER MediCare was implemented, mainly due to the fraud and waste it added to the system. The unfunded liability for M&M, drugs and healthcare is over $108T.
Hey, at least Craig has the guts to post his full name. I don’t because my politically-correct employer (most large cos. are now) may read my posts. Most people on here just listen to the mainstream media and have no clue what’ really happening.
“Once a state develops a budget deficit, it is obligated to tax FUTURE taxpayer residents to pay back the debt.”
Clarifying question: those FUTURE taxpayers you want to pay for the deficit, those are residents of the state(s) that ran a deficit right? Not taxpayers from the entire country?
Hi Polar – thanks for acknowledging you do not think Federal funds should be given to states that run a deficit so they can balance their budget every year (a comment you made in another thread that you never answered me about). You couldn’t have answered that without the ad-hominem attacks though?
RoSealionblatt; states shouldn’t spend themselves into deficits and ask for Federal aid. States should not get into deficit positions. And that applies to ANY red state that you care to list that you believe is in a constant deficit position. States that get into deficit positions should tax THEIR resident taxpayers who voted for the idiotic, incompetent or corrupt politicians. They should not indirectly tax other states which act responsibly by reducing spending to proper levels of service and support to their citizens.
… and Socialist Democrats push for various forms of punishment (e.g. regulations, taxes, etc.) for businesses which succeed in providing products, services, and jobs to US citizens.
Polar – I have yet to see a case where the virus is spread business to business….I think it’s person to person. Why sue a business when the virus came from a human? How does a sick person know they didn’t catch the virus before they show up at a “business” ? You DON’T !! The test doesn’t tell you how long you have been infected and where you caught it.
The EFFECTS of COVID-19 are not restricted to HEALTH effects.
Effects spread from one business to another usually occurs thru disrupted supply chains.
I’m glad I could clarify those concepts for you, which really aren’t difficult for anyone to understand.
You’re welcome!
Oh, I forgot to add a secondary point, to a point which you made fairly well. Businesses are sued in lieu of their proper defendant because of their deep pockets. ATLA lawyers will try to point to the “enticement to gather” created by ‘greedy’ businessmen that was the primary cause of infections and contagion.
We can’t mistaken what is going right now with socialism. There are unfortunate side effects of socialism, but we this would never prevail if this virus has not spread. I like to see what the different states are doing and seeing what works. There are way too many unknowns. However defeating the Coronavirus should be our number one priority regardless, because this is the biggest threat at this point, more so than our politicians. We would also focus on treatments and vaccines as this will be our real ticket back to a wide open marketplace.
You mean the Socialism like herr Trump awarding “small businesses” millions of dollars and every american a $1200 check right, that kind of socialism? I totally agree!
No, the kind of Socialism where government controls all businesses in a non-optimal economic outcome fraught with waste and fraud.
This is rich.
You have been on the precisely other end of this telling people what certain terms mean.
Take it from the Word Parser Rosenblatt . . . he knows words better than you or I or anyone. And nothing means what you think it does. Just ask him.
“Democrats are pushing for nearly $1 trillion in federal assistance to states and local governments.”
This is a clear example of ‘Taxation without Representation’, applied by fiscally irresponsible states against those which are fiscally prudent. If you believe otherwise, and that the Federal government should bail out foolhardy Governors who’ve run up big state deficits, you’re politically biased or blind. You’re also a willing fool to believe that one group of states can tax the other states through federal acts, legislative or judicial, to subsidize their foolishness and corruption.
“If you believe otherwise, and that the Federal government should bail out foolhardy Governors who’ve run up big state deficits, you’re politically biased or blind…”
So I take it you do not agree with states taking Federal money to balance their budgets on an annual basis, right?
So all of those federal taxes collected from CA should never go to KY. Got it.
Why, did Kentucky build an unsustainable debt burden for its citizens by making retirement promises to public employee unions that weren’t funded?
What is the State debt burden in CA big boy? The total and per working Californian? (Won’t wait up.)
I don’t see how any American could disagree with that. Unless that American doesn’t believe in the Constitution.
What a pseudo-intellectual rant. Did you earn a fake law degree when you got your fake statistics degree?
Wouldn’t it be great if brokers had to honestly express their feelings on these issues to their clients:
“Sure, I make good commissions off of your business, but I hope your taxes go up to give more to government and I hope you are sued for Covid 19 violations because, you know, you are a greedy capitalist and all. And I really don’t care that this will hurt your employees either.”
ENDORSE!
Let’s face it, Washington is playing with monopoly money now, it’s fake. I’m personally ready for it to come crashing down so we can have free everything. Just think, you get up go to work, put your 40 hours in and we all make the same wage, live in the same type of homes, drive the same type of cars. etc. There is no elite anymore. The rich and famous give away their homes and money to make everyone equal, let’s be fair.
Let me know when that happens. Until then, I’m leaving to go home a little early, maybe go sit on the dock, take the boat out and drink a little bourbon and smoke a cigar.
No kidding. How many articles will we read about restaurant owners who can’t re-open until the supplemental Federal unemployment checks stop coming, since so many restaurant workers are now making more by not working that they don’t WANT to come back.
(If we all have the same cars, can it be a Corvette? Would probably thin the herd some.)
So now in addition to dishonesty you don’t actually understand how unemployment works.
Jon, do YOU have personal experience with how unemployment works? That wouldn’t be a surprise.
Personally, I’ve never been unemployed long enough to apply. But I expect Craig has a much better record, since he touts himself as an expert, right? I didn’t say I was an expert, merely that Craig isn’t. His track record of lies and false statements on this board says as much, I just like to make sure he’s reminded of that.
“since so many restaurant workers are now making more by not working that they don’t WANT to come back.”
UNPROVEN CLAIM ALERT
My wife works in the restaurant business and EVERY.SINGLE.PERSON she knows wants to go back to work so long as it’s safe. They know unemployment is not an endless well of money and they crave social interaction.
I’m sure your “SO MANY” people claim is not based on any actual data or even on anecdotal data. But whatever, you keep spouting unsubstantiated claims as fact.
I’m sure your anecdotal story “is not based on any actual data . . .”
Sealioning AGAIN, Rosenblatt? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Go back to word parsing.
He has at least an anecdotal story, you have a false unproven claim, so yeah he’s ahead of you.
Once again Craig, its’ not sea-lioning when people ask you to prove your ridiculous claims, because you lie constantly.
Just the other day you tried to lie that WHO had ENDORSED Sweden’s “no lockout system” which is a lie on multiple fronts. Then you backpedaled to say they praised it, while still not acknowledging the social distancing or fact that they didn’t NEED a lockdown because their citizens actually adhered to social distancing. You spread lies and then yell that people are sea-lioning when they ask you for proof. The problem isn’t them asking, the problem is you’re a liar.
1) Obviously my anecdotal story is just that. I did not pretend otherwise.
Sealioning – consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions
2) Explain how you think I am sealioning when I didn’t ask you to prove your argument with data or evidence. I presumed you had no data and left it at that – I didn’t ask you to prove your argument, did I?
I cannot speak to ALL restaurant workers because obviously I do not know them all, but I feel the following may apply to many…..
My mom works for a local supper club in small town Wisconsin. They have a loyal following and have been able to successfully do the new format of to go only orders. My mom does get unemployment plus the additional federal unemployment. She and the other restaurant employees will all tell you the same thing, they are grateful they have the unemployment right now to help but they cannot wait to go back to business as normal as they make a lot more in tips when people can sit down as opposed to having to go only.
I have several friends that also bartend who have told me the same thing. Unemployment is great and helpful but they make better money in tips when they have customers coming in and sitting down.
Those employee would rather be back to work than sitting home.
I think restaurants and bars that can’t reopen will most likely be due to they financially can’t, not that they have no workers.
100% agree with you, sak. Another thing I’ve been hearing from my wife’s associates who work in the restaurant industry is that they KNOW they can’t just sit and collect unemployment forever, which is another reason they want to go back to work.
And who’s to say how much longer the additional federal payment will be rolling in? I can assure you my wife can’t live off $250 a week that the state gives her, so even if she can collect state unemployment, if the fed payment goes away, state unemployment alone means she is not “now making more by not working” (she’s not making more WITH the fed payment either, but I know you get what I’m trying to express with that future uncertainty).
I am guessing you guys have never heard of workers in fast food who never get tips and who are getting far more from unemployment than they ever did working.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/03/lower-income-workers-coronavirus-stimulus-163949
You guessed wrong
Also, your article says EXACTLY what I argued:
But the average weekly payment over the past year was $372. That works out to an hourly wage of $9.30 for a 40-hour work week. The $600 sweetener increases that average to $24.30 an hour. If every unemployed worker received that $24.30 average (they don’t), and if every unemployed worker were eligible for unemployment benefits (they aren’t), that would translate, extrapolating from data furnished by EPI, into a wage boost for the bottom 60 percent of wage earners.
“That makes a big difference but it’s temporary,” said Chad Stone, chief economist at the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. “And if you somehow fall through the cracks and don’t qualify for unemployment, as greatly expanded as it is, then obviously, you’re still in the same tough situation as a low income person.”
Then this opens the door to Medicare For All. If businesses are to be exempt from liability related to Covid-19, then employees and their family will require full healthcare benefits at no cost related to Covid-19 illness and any of its complications. This full healthcare benefit would have to continue even if the employee once sickened by Covid-19 is unable to return to work. The spread the of the virus picked up from a place of business also includes customers. Should the customers’ employer health plan foot the bill? What if the customer is retired? This is where Medicare For All will be forced upon us. I was not for Medicare For All but you cannot allow businesses to side step “the cost of doing business” by placing the burden on the backs of every day people. Otherwise it appears that the government (Republicans) are advocating that people (employees,family, customers) should die for the benefit of profit for employers/business.
I was actually interested in what you had to say until you went of the cliff with the “Republicans are advocating that people should die for the benefit of profit . . . ” And then I no longer took you seriously.
It does not matter whether you take me seriously or not. The fact remains that members of the party and the current administration have gotten behind the push for immunity. If you are a proponent of alternate facts then you are taking yourself too seriously.
People are dying if they are older and if they have a co-morbidity.
Has nothing to do with Republicans. Unless you are insane.
So, if we allow businesses to be sued for something when no one can prove the business was even negligent in creating the illness, you don’t see a problem. You don’t see how many shake down lawsuits will follow. Really? You can’t see THAT?
My guess: you have never owned a business.
I don’t take you seriously because of your ignorant suggestion that these situations will lead to expanded MediCare. And, more important, I don’t believe expanded immunity will be granted on a blanket basis to all businesses.
Actually, it leads to no such thing as expanded MediCare, where the Federal government controls your health care decisions, and the expansion of the current fraud and waste leads to economic collapse; e.g. Venezuela.
It’s your turn …to spew lies about how it succeeds in Socialist countries.
Healthcare costs in the US escalated AFTER MediCare was implemented, mainly due to the fraud and waste it added to the system. The unfunded liability for M&M, drugs and healthcare is over $108T.
Hey, at least Craig has the guts to post his full name. I don’t because my politically-correct employer (most large cos. are now) may read my posts. Most people on here just listen to the mainstream media and have no clue what’ really happening.
“Once a state develops a budget deficit, it is obligated to tax FUTURE taxpayer residents to pay back the debt.”
Clarifying question: those FUTURE taxpayers you want to pay for the deficit, those are residents of the state(s) that ran a deficit right? Not taxpayers from the entire country?
Do I have that right?
RoSealionblatt trolls on with rhetoric questions to fictional posts.
The word ‘state’ identifies the nature of the word ‘residents’ in his first question, yet he asks, because he is either ignorant or a troll.
Hi Polar – thanks for acknowledging you do not think Federal funds should be given to states that run a deficit so they can balance their budget every year (a comment you made in another thread that you never answered me about). You couldn’t have answered that without the ad-hominem attacks though?
RoSealionblatt; states shouldn’t spend themselves into deficits and ask for Federal aid. States should not get into deficit positions. And that applies to ANY red state that you care to list that you believe is in a constant deficit position. States that get into deficit positions should tax THEIR resident taxpayers who voted for the idiotic, incompetent or corrupt politicians. They should not indirectly tax other states which act responsibly by reducing spending to proper levels of service and support to their citizens.