If you successfully sue the government, you’ve successfully sued yourself.
The only effective solution to the perverse result indicated above, i.e. ‘government immunity from lawsu… uh, justice’, is substituting the specific political office holders for government as a single body of several politicians. Sue the mayor, personally, rather than sue the town. Sue the governor rather than sue the state. Etc.
The above solution would require higher standards of legal liability to initiate such lawsuits. If someone didn’t like the outcome of an election .e.g. the POTUS election in 2016, they could take political actions through the courts…. or other means, to express their frustration in losing the election.
The higher standards for suing a political office holder individually are not readily apparent, and would ultimately require SCOTUS affirmation. But those standards must adhere to rights granted by the US Constitution, and would not apply to potential plaintiffs who are not US citizens.
Excellent thoughts. And I have always wondered why the government was granted such broad immunity from lawsuits when we all know how often governments mess up.
But I am afraid this will just be another avenue for our divisive politics. When Republicans are in office, creative Lefty lawyers will find hundreds of reasons to sue to try to make the office holders look bad. And the opposite would be true as well.
Any modification of Sovereign Immunity would have to be extremely narrow and extremely well-defined not to lead to massive abuse. And I also am afraid of Legal Creep once the amendment is made, a constant search to expand the areas where Sovereign Immunity could be challenged, especially in states like California that are already run by the plaintiffs bar and the teacher’s unions.
Given a choice, I prefer politicians abuse themselves with eroded Sovereign immunity than abuse citizen taxpayers with their poor performance with intact, full Sovereign immunity. A case in point is apparent today from the news of the vindication of Gen.Michael Flynn. Citizen Flynn deserves retribution against the Obama Mis-Justice Dept.
I agree that the DOL and OSHA might be more effective with reforms to laws and their ability to enforce them. But the changes must be made with consideration of the potential ill-effects.
A closer to pareto-optimal approach is to improve the economy, and specifically, lower unemployment to lowest possible, theoretical level, so that qualified workers are treated better by employers that must compete (‘bid’) for them through not only higher wages, but thru benefits, and improved work conditions that do not add costs that disrupt the balance of supply & demand for products & services in markets. In fact, that was occurring until COVID-19 and the dual ‘Bologna Virus’ of Media Hyperbole / Misinformation and Bad Modeling Applications.
But the key question about the very lead paragraph of the story is…..how do you even know you got COVID-19 from exposure at work and not when you went to the grocery story last weekend? It’s impossible to know exactly how anybody got it…..and into that void comes the opportunistic bottom feeding vultures known as personal injury lawyers. They certainly have their place when there have been egregious violations but the overwhelming majority of their cases have no merit whatsoever and they never intend to ever take those cases to trial. They just want to create a nuisance where its cheaper to pay them walking away money than it is to fully litigate in court and ‘win.’ Not much of a win if it cost you more to defend yourself than it would have to just settle.
What if Cuomo could be sued for sending elderly Covid patients back to nursing homes so they could infect and kill the other residents? How about his hunker down orders? He had to admit 60% of the cases came after he gave those orders.
By the way, you might want to update your politics from 1950. Big corporations are ALL Democrat supporters now. Big corporations love lots of regulations that new businesses can’t afford. Big corporations love open borders for cheap labor. Big corporations love the idea of Medicare for All to get rid of the health insurance cost and headache.
The people who elected Trump are blue collar folks who left the Democrat party a LONG time ago. You know, those deplorables clinging to their guns and Bibles.
YOU are on the side of the elites, the New York/Washington/CNN crowd. The Silicon Valley millionaires who hate Trump are YOUR constituents now.
That was not the point made. NEITHER did things wrong. They both made statements with the information available at the time, and are being held to different standards.
You think this means Trump needs to go. So, logically Cuomo does too right? Or maybe you didn’t care at all, and it was a political stunt. Stop the lol. It makes you look foolish.
“If the actual infection rate among the entire population is similar to the early sample infection rate they found of 13.9%, it would change the death rate of the state, Cuomo said. New York is reporting 15,500 COVID-19 deaths, and if 2.7 million people were infected, that would mean the death rate would be 0.5%, Cuomo said.”
Tramp keeps telling me, and reiterated it again yesterday, that if I wanted a test, I can get one. Well, I can’t get one. I continue to be told I don’t qualify for a test. Maybe I should sue his punk arse along with the public workers who should do the same. Nothing but lies coming from this man regarding all things Covid and beyond. The snowflake couldn’t even handle his own press conference yesterday, had to take his ball and go home.
Liar, also, talk to your state. He already assisted them, he cannot have the feds do all of it.
The reason I call you a liar? I was tested twice about 2 weeks ago, so was my son, and my daughter I was shocked that they insisted on testing her today.
The only reason I can imagine you are not being tested is you either have no respiratory symptoms, or you have no temp, or some combo, which means you aren’t an asymptomatic carrier if you have it, (which is doubtful that you do)
They prioritize tests, but still somehow a mild cough in my case and a small temperature (99.5) when my son had them do it, despite us both having clear lungs.
Your side is not thinking about the effects of what they are doing, and you have not either. I’ve talked about this non stop. These are not posts that are garbage. You just have a severe personality disorder.
Also, yes, Planet is lying, it’s not garbage. He keeps saying he can’t get a test, I wonder how many weeks that nonsense will go on.
If he can’t get a test, the only possible reason is he is asymptomatic, AKA not a risk.
Flu tests would be limited as well if everyone without symptoms went to get one. We have enough tests for those who “need” tests. Our testing capabilities now surpass most nations, Trump took many actions to get this done, he has done well to do so.
It’s always style over substance with you guys, and well, then lying.
TLDR for you on that last post: Over 300 million people will be pushed into poverty, millions will starve at this rate, some nations have a death rate from shut downs exceeding by far the COVID death rate, one such example is in the link.
You can’t go with 20% unemployment in less than 2 months and think the shut down will work and save lives, it is not possible, forgetting the scientific reasons (of which I already explained, in that you cannot stop people form getting this, so the goal is to LET healthy people get sick to SAVE UNHEALTHY people, so YOUR SIDE IS KILLING THE VULENERABLE AND INFLATING DEATHS) you also can’t do it because the economy simply won’t last even 6 months doing it, before it completely collapses to over a 50% unemployment rate, and you can’t just turn it back on. The starvation and death will far outweigh any modern catastrophe we have had, and was avoidable. You guys will see this backfire when the end comes. People WILL STARVE and there will be a flip red like you have never seen as a result when it comes out the left was using this, and they are.
If you successfully sue the government, you’ve successfully sued yourself.
The only effective solution to the perverse result indicated above, i.e. ‘government immunity from lawsu… uh, justice’, is substituting the specific political office holders for government as a single body of several politicians. Sue the mayor, personally, rather than sue the town. Sue the governor rather than sue the state. Etc.
The above solution would require higher standards of legal liability to initiate such lawsuits. If someone didn’t like the outcome of an election .e.g. the POTUS election in 2016, they could take political actions through the courts…. or other means, to express their frustration in losing the election.
The higher standards for suing a political office holder individually are not readily apparent, and would ultimately require SCOTUS affirmation. But those standards must adhere to rights granted by the US Constitution, and would not apply to potential plaintiffs who are not US citizens.
Excellent thoughts. And I have always wondered why the government was granted such broad immunity from lawsuits when we all know how often governments mess up.
But I am afraid this will just be another avenue for our divisive politics. When Republicans are in office, creative Lefty lawyers will find hundreds of reasons to sue to try to make the office holders look bad. And the opposite would be true as well.
Any modification of Sovereign Immunity would have to be extremely narrow and extremely well-defined not to lead to massive abuse. And I also am afraid of Legal Creep once the amendment is made, a constant search to expand the areas where Sovereign Immunity could be challenged, especially in states like California that are already run by the plaintiffs bar and the teacher’s unions.
” I have always wondered why the government was granted such broad immunity from lawsuits when we all know how often governments mess up. ”
The answer to your ‘why’ question follows directly from the ‘who’ (granted it) question.
Given a choice, I prefer politicians abuse themselves with eroded Sovereign immunity than abuse citizen taxpayers with their poor performance with intact, full Sovereign immunity. A case in point is apparent today from the news of the vindication of Gen.Michael Flynn. Citizen Flynn deserves retribution against the Obama Mis-Justice Dept.
Only the attorneys would get rich. Most people know the government cant do much right, the rest vote democrat.
Perfect response. Succinct and clear as to why it should never happen.
Neither Bezos or Musk care at all about the workers, they are expendable $$ stock stepping stones to them. Folks work long hrs to pay bills and in times like this, work hard for the good of others, doing much overtime to also help the company. The Dept of Labor needs to do its job and start protecting the workers of this country, this is not the early 1900’s! We need BETTER Labor Laws like 10 yrs ago! I think Trump needs to fire folks in the DoL and put folks in place that care about hard working taxpayers! Make this country great again! The 2 ceo sweatshop clowns first mentioned prey on others.
1.) https://www.revealnews.org/article/tesla-says-its-factory-is-safer-but-it-left-injuries-off-the-books/
2.) https://www.revealnews.org/article/how-tesla-and-its-doctor-made-sure-injured-employees-didnt-get-workers-comp/
I agree that the DOL and OSHA might be more effective with reforms to laws and their ability to enforce them. But the changes must be made with consideration of the potential ill-effects.
A closer to pareto-optimal approach is to improve the economy, and specifically, lower unemployment to lowest possible, theoretical level, so that qualified workers are treated better by employers that must compete (‘bid’) for them through not only higher wages, but thru benefits, and improved work conditions that do not add costs that disrupt the balance of supply & demand for products & services in markets. In fact, that was occurring until COVID-19 and the dual ‘Bologna Virus’ of Media Hyperbole / Misinformation and Bad Modeling Applications.
But the key question about the very lead paragraph of the story is…..how do you even know you got COVID-19 from exposure at work and not when you went to the grocery story last weekend? It’s impossible to know exactly how anybody got it…..and into that void comes the opportunistic bottom feeding vultures known as personal injury lawyers. They certainly have their place when there have been egregious violations but the overwhelming majority of their cases have no merit whatsoever and they never intend to ever take those cases to trial. They just want to create a nuisance where its cheaper to pay them walking away money than it is to fully litigate in court and ‘win.’ Not much of a win if it cost you more to defend yourself than it would have to just settle.
What if Cuomo could be sued for sending elderly Covid patients back to nursing homes so they could infect and kill the other residents? How about his hunker down orders? He had to admit 60% of the cases came after he gave those orders.
Well I think it’s official. Yelling about Cuomo is the new “But her emails!” from the right-wing lunatic crowd.
Yelling about everything has been the fad since Trump was elected.
But Cuomo matters, because literally everything you guys yelled about with Trump, Cuomo was brought up solely because he did the same thing.
The “second guy” directly caused deaths knowingly by forcing Covid positive residents back into nursing homes.
P. S. That was bob.
By the way, you might want to update your politics from 1950. Big corporations are ALL Democrat supporters now. Big corporations love lots of regulations that new businesses can’t afford. Big corporations love open borders for cheap labor. Big corporations love the idea of Medicare for All to get rid of the health insurance cost and headache.
The people who elected Trump are blue collar folks who left the Democrat party a LONG time ago. You know, those deplorables clinging to their guns and Bibles.
YOU are on the side of the elites, the New York/Washington/CNN crowd. The Silicon Valley millionaires who hate Trump are YOUR constituents now.
That was not the point made. NEITHER did things wrong. They both made statements with the information available at the time, and are being held to different standards.
You think this means Trump needs to go. So, logically Cuomo does too right? Or maybe you didn’t care at all, and it was a political stunt. Stop the lol. It makes you look foolish.
Such as this:
“If the actual infection rate among the entire population is similar to the early sample infection rate they found of 13.9%, it would change the death rate of the state, Cuomo said. New York is reporting 15,500 COVID-19 deaths, and if 2.7 million people were infected, that would mean the death rate would be 0.5%, Cuomo said.”
https://www.livescience.com/covid-antibody-test-results-new-york-test.html
Cuomo says the death rate is likely much lower than we thought, and, .5% by the way is much closer to the flu April 23rd.
Trump was saying similar statements, the media crucified him saying he was downplaying the crises.
We have been seeing for some time that we do not know the infection rate, and the death rate is likely over exaggerated in the media.
htt ps://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/22/new-york-to-begin-clinical-trials-for-coronavirus-treatment-tuesday-cuomo-says/#347c8fd14203
Then of course there was this.
Cuomo pushes for trials with hydroxychloroquine, get first in line, good. Trump pushes it as soon as he sees any good evidence, bad.
Cuomo is a reaction from the right, to being attacked non stop.
Then you try to call us out? No no buddy, we are calling you out. You can’t call out a call out.
It makes no sense.
Tramp keeps telling me, and reiterated it again yesterday, that if I wanted a test, I can get one. Well, I can’t get one. I continue to be told I don’t qualify for a test. Maybe I should sue his punk arse along with the public workers who should do the same. Nothing but lies coming from this man regarding all things Covid and beyond. The snowflake couldn’t even handle his own press conference yesterday, had to take his ball and go home.
#neverforget
Liar, also, talk to your state. He already assisted them, he cannot have the feds do all of it.
The reason I call you a liar? I was tested twice about 2 weeks ago, so was my son, and my daughter I was shocked that they insisted on testing her today.
The only reason I can imagine you are not being tested is you either have no respiratory symptoms, or you have no temp, or some combo, which means you aren’t an asymptomatic carrier if you have it, (which is doubtful that you do)
They prioritize tests, but still somehow a mild cough in my case and a small temperature (99.5) when my son had them do it, despite us both having clear lungs.
rather you are an asymptomatic carrier.
Which means low risk.
If you come in without symptoms, you’re not prioritized, and are literally not a large risk.
So many posts of garbage with so little worth reading LOL
So many lol posts without facts.
How does this one read for you Jon?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/05/the_worldwide_lockdown_may_be_the_greatest_mistake_in_history_143119.html?fbclid=IwAR2O_Fz7yiQgqk5Laiq3ZTDw4SEXk2N-l22SAPb67IUKEhP_tyXakoOccs4
Your side is not thinking about the effects of what they are doing, and you have not either. I’ve talked about this non stop. These are not posts that are garbage. You just have a severe personality disorder.
Quit the politicking nonsense.
Also, yes, Planet is lying, it’s not garbage. He keeps saying he can’t get a test, I wonder how many weeks that nonsense will go on.
If he can’t get a test, the only possible reason is he is asymptomatic, AKA not a risk.
Flu tests would be limited as well if everyone without symptoms went to get one. We have enough tests for those who “need” tests. Our testing capabilities now surpass most nations, Trump took many actions to get this done, he has done well to do so.
It’s always style over substance with you guys, and well, then lying.
TLDR for you on that last post: Over 300 million people will be pushed into poverty, millions will starve at this rate, some nations have a death rate from shut downs exceeding by far the COVID death rate, one such example is in the link.
You can’t go with 20% unemployment in less than 2 months and think the shut down will work and save lives, it is not possible, forgetting the scientific reasons (of which I already explained, in that you cannot stop people form getting this, so the goal is to LET healthy people get sick to SAVE UNHEALTHY people, so YOUR SIDE IS KILLING THE VULENERABLE AND INFLATING DEATHS) you also can’t do it because the economy simply won’t last even 6 months doing it, before it completely collapses to over a 50% unemployment rate, and you can’t just turn it back on. The starvation and death will far outweigh any modern catastrophe we have had, and was avoidable. You guys will see this backfire when the end comes. People WILL STARVE and there will be a flip red like you have never seen as a result when it comes out the left was using this, and they are.