The bill is over 5,000 pages and our elected officials had less than a day to read it before they voted.
Can anyone read 10 pages a minute (let alone 10pg/min of a legal document) and REALLY know what’s in it? The previous record for the length of legislation was 2,847 pages.
Shouldn’t our elected officials be given ample time to read the full bill not using speed-reading techniques before they’re forced to vote on it?
Shouldn’t there be enough time for those people to take an hour or two to REALLY understand what’s in the bill and ask questions and question some of its provisions (e.g. Why are we including $1.4B for the wall Mexico is supposed to be paying for? Why are we including ~$700M for our military when we just passed a military budget 2 weeks ago?)
I know Americans need money. My family is one of them. But accepting a one-time $600 payment if you make under $75k when we see BILLIONS going out the door to non-COVID related aspects that we’ve already paid (military budget 2 weeks ago) or spending money on things we were promised we wouldn’t actually have to pay for (wall) is not the “relief” the average American citizen desperately needs right now.
it’s cr@p. Why can’t they just pass a bill designed to help US? Why do they need to attach all the other stuff to it? I know “this is the way it works” but WHY? You’d think that in such a crisis, they’d be able to JUST DO IT.
Can someone please explain it to me, slowly, like you would to a 4 year-old who will probably get distracted by eating paste and ask you to repeat it a few times?
I believe that the reason for this is that the first two pages apply to the title of the bill. The rest are pet projects that have been sitting by the wayside on all their important senate desks waiting for the moment to get pushed into a bill. All the little favors and promises are the other 4,998 pages.
To be fair, most of the bill was negotiated weeks ago, but Pelosi admitted she didn’t want to approve it until after the election, for fear of helping Trump.
So most of these clowns should have read most of the bill already. But they don’t. Remember Pelosi’s famous line about the ACA that “we have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it”.
That is the way Washington works. Most bills are written by 20-something staffers with the help of lobbyists.
Whining about the military and the wall is just partisan nonsense. All of this spending is from borrowed money.
Let me know when you lefties TRULY believe in fiscal responsibility. I won’t wait up. But when/if the middle class is wiped out by inflation sometime in the future, make sure to look in the mirror. (Today, the far left is upset that a “Deficit Hawk” was chosen by Biden as Deputy Chief of Staff. Conservatives can’t stop laughing at all of it.)
“So most of these clowns should have read most of the bill already”
Yes Craig. They should’ve read the unpublished bill weeks ago before the language was finalized and posted in its final version. That’s a very logical argument. (end sarcasm)
I understand that Jim, but there is ZERO guarantee that a bill in “draft” form will be EXACTLY the same that’s published to be voted on. I’d guess that close to 100% of bills that are voted on are different than their earlier draft versions.
A simple word change from “and” to “or” can make a HUGE difference in the bill, but if you ONLY read the draft, you wouldn’t know what was different, would you?
“Give people more than 1/2 a day to read a 5,000 page bill so they don’t have to read 10 pages a minute to know what they’re actually voting on, because we all know what’s written in draft form is not 100% how the final version will be written” shouldn’t be a tough ask for our legislature.
December 22, 2020 at 3:49 pm
Jim says:
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Now you’re just spinning things to make some point that eludes me.
Yes, there is no guaranty a draft bill will be identical to the bill to be voted on in Congress. In nearly all cases, changes to a draft bill to finalize it are identified so that Congressmen understand the impact of the changes to existing laws and the proposed bill.
December 22, 2020 at 3:55 pm
Jim says:
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I agree that Congressmen need time to read bills before voting on them. Or, mandate bill sizes so that sections of a grand-size bill can be discussed and voted on separately.
December 22, 2020 at 4:49 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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My point was not intended to elude you – it was simply a way of saying “Craig (I know you’re Jim) is wrong to imply the bill should’ve been read in its entirety prior to the finalized language being made available because there’s no way to ensure the draft language is the same as the bill language they end up voting on.”
We seem to agree anyway: legislators should have more than a part of one day to review a 5,000 page bill before they vote on it so they know what’s in it regardless of the various iterations any draft legislation may be available.
I mean – if someone gave you a non-ISO policy and said “you’ve got 1 hour to read and sign it or we’re rescinding our offer”, odds are you wouldn’t sign it because you can’t possibly know what details you’re agreeing to.
December 22, 2020 at 4:52 pm
Craig Winston Cornell says:
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So your position is that when Congressmen are negotiating on what to include in a bill, they aren’t reading it. Hey, we agree!
I’m saying whatever verbal agreements were made during negotiations or written into a draft bill cannot be presumed to be what’s in the final bill, and the final bill needs to be read in its entirety before casting a vote.
Do you agree with what I’m ACTUALLY saying?
December 24, 2020 at 1:25 pm
Craig Winston Cornell says:
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Why can’t you admit the obvious: you just agreed they didn’t read it. Is that so hard?
December 22, 2020 at 6:08 pm
Interested says:
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They don’t read the whole thing. The politicians only read their relevant aspect, promise or favor in any of these bills.
It doesn’t matter what this new bill provides for military funding – we already passed our military budget 2 weeks ago and that’s good for at least a year.
This deal should be focused on relief for citizens, not more military budgeting allocation when that was agreed to less than a month ago.
If I agree with my kid that their allowance is $25/week for the next 12 months, that’s the deal for the next 12 months. We’re not throwing him extra money in 2 weeks because he asked for it.
December 31, 2020 at 8:32 am
Caldude says:
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“Let me know when you lefties TRULY believe in fiscal responsibility. I won’t wait up. But when/if the middle class is wiped out by inflation sometime in the future, make sure to look in the mirror.”
Fiscal responsibility by the GOP left the station 4 years ago. The Tea Party, which has its origins in fiscal conservatism, was hijacked by the religious right and lost its way. Donald “Bankruptcy” Trump has driven this to the precipice with spending monies on personal projects, corporate give-ways and poor financial decisions; all BEFORE the pandemic came along.
More pork, more spending, more big government bad habits. As a nation, we are drunk on debt and our elected politicians only care about their image in the fact of voters — and to act like they care and make a difference.
No politician lost their paycheck in the 9 months it took for them to pass this legislation. If it really is that important, it would have passed months ago.
The amount of money that is allocated, wasted, and usurped by politicians does not matter anymore — it is only about being perceived as the savior of the downtrodden masses.
Money corrupts and politicians like and need money.
Yet, Rosenblatt, there are Republican politicians who downplayed the virus, some even calling it a hoax, some lying to the citizens in their state, who were first in line to get the vaccination. Disgrace!
You mean like Pelosi going to Chinatown for Chinese New Year’s in March and telling everyone to do the same in large crowds without fear? You mean DiBlasio doing the same in New York? You mean like Biden saying the ban on travel from China was unnecessarily racist and xenophobic?
What??? No mention of the Dalai Lama protection in the bill, and money for Belarus in the bill, and all of the other lobbyist nonsense in the bill? Did ANYONE read it??
Wow, just read about that (DL, Smokey the Bear/Woodsy Owl, 2 new museums, horse racing….). I knew it was filled with junk (border wall, military, money to Israel and other countries) but wow.
They (both D and R) just amended everything they ever wanted onto this relief, didn’t they? No wonder it’s 5,000 pages. This is not governance.
The bill is over 5,000 pages and our elected officials had less than a day to read it before they voted.
Can anyone read 10 pages a minute (let alone 10pg/min of a legal document) and REALLY know what’s in it? The previous record for the length of legislation was 2,847 pages.
Shouldn’t our elected officials be given ample time to read the full bill not using speed-reading techniques before they’re forced to vote on it?
Shouldn’t there be enough time for those people to take an hour or two to REALLY understand what’s in the bill and ask questions and question some of its provisions (e.g. Why are we including $1.4B for the wall Mexico is supposed to be paying for? Why are we including ~$700M for our military when we just passed a military budget 2 weeks ago?)
I know Americans need money. My family is one of them. But accepting a one-time $600 payment if you make under $75k when we see BILLIONS going out the door to non-COVID related aspects that we’ve already paid (military budget 2 weeks ago) or spending money on things we were promised we wouldn’t actually have to pay for (wall) is not the “relief” the average American citizen desperately needs right now.
it’s cr@p. Why can’t they just pass a bill designed to help US? Why do they need to attach all the other stuff to it? I know “this is the way it works” but WHY? You’d think that in such a crisis, they’d be able to JUST DO IT.
Can someone please explain it to me, slowly, like you would to a 4 year-old who will probably get distracted by eating paste and ask you to repeat it a few times?
I believe that the reason for this is that the first two pages apply to the title of the bill. The rest are pet projects that have been sitting by the wayside on all their important senate desks waiting for the moment to get pushed into a bill. All the little favors and promises are the other 4,998 pages.
To be fair, most of the bill was negotiated weeks ago, but Pelosi admitted she didn’t want to approve it until after the election, for fear of helping Trump.
So most of these clowns should have read most of the bill already. But they don’t. Remember Pelosi’s famous line about the ACA that “we have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it”.
That is the way Washington works. Most bills are written by 20-something staffers with the help of lobbyists.
Whining about the military and the wall is just partisan nonsense. All of this spending is from borrowed money.
Let me know when you lefties TRULY believe in fiscal responsibility. I won’t wait up. But when/if the middle class is wiped out by inflation sometime in the future, make sure to look in the mirror. (Today, the far left is upset that a “Deficit Hawk” was chosen by Biden as Deputy Chief of Staff. Conservatives can’t stop laughing at all of it.)
“So most of these clowns should have read most of the bill already”
Yes Craig. They should’ve read the unpublished bill weeks ago before the language was finalized and posted in its final version. That’s a very logical argument. (end sarcasm)
‘Published’ doesn’t mean what you think it does. Congressmen have access to bill drafts as a matter of routine.
I understand that Jim, but there is ZERO guarantee that a bill in “draft” form will be EXACTLY the same that’s published to be voted on. I’d guess that close to 100% of bills that are voted on are different than their earlier draft versions.
A simple word change from “and” to “or” can make a HUGE difference in the bill, but if you ONLY read the draft, you wouldn’t know what was different, would you?
“Give people more than 1/2 a day to read a 5,000 page bill so they don’t have to read 10 pages a minute to know what they’re actually voting on, because we all know what’s written in draft form is not 100% how the final version will be written” shouldn’t be a tough ask for our legislature.
Now you’re just spinning things to make some point that eludes me.
Yes, there is no guaranty a draft bill will be identical to the bill to be voted on in Congress. In nearly all cases, changes to a draft bill to finalize it are identified so that Congressmen understand the impact of the changes to existing laws and the proposed bill.
I agree that Congressmen need time to read bills before voting on them. Or, mandate bill sizes so that sections of a grand-size bill can be discussed and voted on separately.
My point was not intended to elude you – it was simply a way of saying “Craig (I know you’re Jim) is wrong to imply the bill should’ve been read in its entirety prior to the finalized language being made available because there’s no way to ensure the draft language is the same as the bill language they end up voting on.”
We seem to agree anyway: legislators should have more than a part of one day to review a 5,000 page bill before they vote on it so they know what’s in it regardless of the various iterations any draft legislation may be available.
I mean – if someone gave you a non-ISO policy and said “you’ve got 1 hour to read and sign it or we’re rescinding our offer”, odds are you wouldn’t sign it because you can’t possibly know what details you’re agreeing to.
So your position is that when Congressmen are negotiating on what to include in a bill, they aren’t reading it. Hey, we agree!
No, I’m not saying that.
I’m saying whatever verbal agreements were made during negotiations or written into a draft bill cannot be presumed to be what’s in the final bill, and the final bill needs to be read in its entirety before casting a vote.
Do you agree with what I’m ACTUALLY saying?
Why can’t you admit the obvious: you just agreed they didn’t read it. Is that so hard?
They don’t read the whole thing. The politicians only read their relevant aspect, promise or favor in any of these bills.
The military’s budget was approved 2 weeks ago. Is the military broke already?
Did you compare the current and prior bills?
Are you ignorant of what each bill provides?
It doesn’t matter what this new bill provides for military funding – we already passed our military budget 2 weeks ago and that’s good for at least a year.
This deal should be focused on relief for citizens, not more military budgeting allocation when that was agreed to less than a month ago.
If I agree with my kid that their allowance is $25/week for the next 12 months, that’s the deal for the next 12 months. We’re not throwing him extra money in 2 weeks because he asked for it.
“Let me know when you lefties TRULY believe in fiscal responsibility. I won’t wait up. But when/if the middle class is wiped out by inflation sometime in the future, make sure to look in the mirror.”
Fiscal responsibility by the GOP left the station 4 years ago. The Tea Party, which has its origins in fiscal conservatism, was hijacked by the religious right and lost its way. Donald “Bankruptcy” Trump has driven this to the precipice with spending monies on personal projects, corporate give-ways and poor financial decisions; all BEFORE the pandemic came along.
More pork, more spending, more big government bad habits. As a nation, we are drunk on debt and our elected politicians only care about their image in the fact of voters — and to act like they care and make a difference.
No politician lost their paycheck in the 9 months it took for them to pass this legislation. If it really is that important, it would have passed months ago.
The amount of money that is allocated, wasted, and usurped by politicians does not matter anymore — it is only about being perceived as the savior of the downtrodden masses.
Money corrupts and politicians like and need money.
No politician lost their gov’t provided health insurance.
No politician had to go on unemployment.
No politician is waiting in line at the food bank.
No politician is afraid of being kicked out of their home on 12/26
Yet, Rosenblatt, there are Republican politicians who downplayed the virus, some even calling it a hoax, some lying to the citizens in their state, who were first in line to get the vaccination. Disgrace!
You mean like Pelosi going to Chinatown for Chinese New Year’s in March and telling everyone to do the same in large crowds without fear? You mean DiBlasio doing the same in New York? You mean like Biden saying the ban on travel from China was unnecessarily racist and xenophobic?
For once, Planet, we agree!
Agreed, so let’s stop shutting down our cities, and stop voting in the democrats doing it.
What??? No mention of the Dalai Lama protection in the bill, and money for Belarus in the bill, and all of the other lobbyist nonsense in the bill? Did ANYONE read it??
Wow, just read about that (DL, Smokey the Bear/Woodsy Owl, 2 new museums, horse racing….). I knew it was filled with junk (border wall, military, money to Israel and other countries) but wow.
They (both D and R) just amended everything they ever wanted onto this relief, didn’t they? No wonder it’s 5,000 pages. This is not governance.
So, you support Trump for rejecting the bill for that vey reason. (Where is Biden on the bill?)
He said to vote for it. That’s where he stands.
Face the fact the top 10% of America pays the bills for the rest of the bums in the US and it’s all monopoly money from here out anyway.
Only people that figure out to capitalize on socialism will prosper from hence forth. I suggest you figure it out, the ones in DC already have.