LOOKS LIKE WE VOTED FOR THE WRONG GUY!! MANY AGENCYS(INCLUDING OUR OWN) MAYBE SHUTTING OUR DOORS SINCE THERE WILL BE NO INSURANCE LAW PASSED. MANY PEOPLE WILL NOT BUY NEW INSURANCE OR RENEWING CURRENT POLICIES IF THIS PASSES! MY FATHER, A 9/11 SURVIVOR, SOLD HIS HOUSE IN NEW JERSEY AND MOVED TO FLORIDA AND SPENT ALL HIS EARNINGS INTO BUYING OUR AGENCY!! NOW HE’S LOOKING TO LOSE IT ALL BECAUSE OF POLITICIANS (INCLUDING STATE FARM WHO MAY HAVE PAID THEM!!) NOT KNOWING HOW TO MAKE MORE MONEY??!!I MYSELF AM A MARRIED MAN WITH 4 CHILDREN AND ONE ON THE WAY, WILL BE WITHOUT A JOB BECAUSE NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO HIRE ME DUE TO THE FACT THERE WILL BE NO OPENINGS FROM ALL THE LAY OFFS!!!SO WHAT? WE WAIT TILL THE FIRST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ACCIDENTS OCCUR AND NO COVERAGE AWARDED (DUE TO NO INSURANCE LAW) TO BRING FLORIDA UP INTO HIGHER DEBT TO THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT??!OR UNTIL SOME LAW MAKERS FAMILY IS DEVISATED TO A LOSS AND THERE IS NO COVERAGE FOR THEM??!!THANKS GOV.CRIST AND ALL OTHER PARTIES INVOLVED (WHO WE STUPIDLY VOTED FOR!!). THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP…CAN’T WAIT TO SEE YOU ALL AT THE POLLS!!!
Sorry Mr. Morales, but you are incorrect. PIP sunsetting is a “good” thing for Florida. Several other states are PIP free and they seem to get along just fine. The current system in Florida is full of fraud – this needs to be fixed by your legislature as well as creating a mechanism for your DMV to ensure people are even carrying insurance. There is a large percentage of Florida residents who do not carry any auto coverage (as stated in a press release from the DMV) and currently your DMV has no way of finding and prosecuting these people. Have a dialogue with the insurance companies you represent – all of them had to file (as did we)forms and rates on how they will handle a “no PIP” policy. Most are adding Med Pay and other coverages to compensate for the loss of PIP. In the end, most carriers rates will go down – which should make it easier for you to sell more policies. Do not blame the sunset of PIP on the insurance industry; your legislature had plenty of time to act on it during it’s regular session and in the special session in June. They failed you not the insurance industry. If you are that disappointed, try writing a letter to your statesmen!
Not sure what the big deal is. BI coverage is required in the State of Fla but you only have to prove to have it at the time of you being in an at fault accident with injury. So all they have to do is require drivers to prove it when they get their plates and renewal. There you will get your premium and the protection of all drivers.
The sunset of PIP is a good thing, but not putting anything in it’s place is ridiculous. Okay, it’s Florida.
IMHO, until they make the penalty for no insurance higher then the premiums for insurance, nothing is going to change anyway. $500 fine vs $2000 premiums?
And even if you have no insurance at the time of an accident, nothing happens to you. Just get hit by someone with no license or insurance and you learn. Whenever you hear of a non-licensed driver killing someone, you find out they’ve been picked up a dozen times or more for driving without license or insurance.
Basically, if you see a car that is older then a few years (ie not financed) just assume they have no insurance.
But that’s not a huge change from how it is now.
Even with the fraud PIP is the cheapest medical insurance there is. We have always sold increased limits because it was so cheap. The additional $90,000 was less than $20 annually. So while there may be fraud in the system, if they shackle enough doctors and put them on the news it’ll make the rest think twice about doing it and the fraud will subside.
If we lose PIP the cost will just transfer to our health coverage, and the cost to supplement the county hospitals will increase.
Most states that aren’t Nofault REQUIRE liability for medical payments. The problem here is that nothing is taking it’s place.
IF they required drivers to carry adaquate liability limits there wouldn’t be nearly the backlash on the health or UM coverage. (which I do expect to double within 2 years with nothing in place)
Dawn, I fully agree with your comments. But I don’t see our weak willed legislature mandating liability insurance on their “poor” constituents. They can’t get 45% of the folks to buy liability now.
That’s why I hope we at least keep PIP in place.
the only people who will lose jobs are crooked chiros and roving MRI businesses. It’s amazing how little people understand about insurance.
There are good points being made here, but the only change is that 1st party medical coverage is now purely optional. The remainder of the PIP law is not enforced.
Facts:
State Farm makes a lot of $$ off BI/UM/PD/Collisin and Med Pay. They actually run PIP at a loss.
They advertized heavily that a 16% decrease in rates would follow the PIP Sunset (assuming you do not buy Med Pay as replacement), but then filed a combined 14.1% rate increase on the other coverages to cover the anticipated increase in frequency on UM, Collision and Med Pay. So consumers will see no measurable rate decrease post the sunset,and now have no medical coverage. If you now buy Med Pay, you will have a rate increase without PIP. The plan next year will be to push for mandatory BI (much more profitable than PIP) with no PIP as the excuse, hence even higher insurance costs and bigger profits.
Thanks you Insurance Junkie for the comments. You hit the nail on the head. And by the way. BI is not required in the state of Florida, only financial responsibility. It makes no sense that the state with the worst drivers has the minimum coverage allowed in the whole country. They should make BI mandatory at 25/50 and you should purchase med pay! Talk to an informed agent, not a bucket shop that makes money on the add ons!
IF PIP SUNSETS….WHOSE TO SAY WHEN YOU SELL(WOW GREAT LIABILITY 25/50 AND NO ADD ONS GENIUS JUST PURE INSURANCE) SMART GUY..OH I’M SORRY..INSURANCE GUY, WHOSE TO STOP THAT PERSON FROM PAYING YOU A DOWN PAYMENT, GOING TO THE TAG OFFICE, REGISTERING, AND THEN COMING BACK THE NEXT DAY AND CANCELLING HIS POLICY SINCE HE DOES’NT HAVE TO HAVE INSURANCE BY LAW? OR, I’M SORRY, NOT ENFORCED? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP UNEARNS DOWN WHEN PEOPLE CANCEL THEIR POLICIES MID-TERM AND DON’T REINSTATE BECAUSE ITS NOT LAW?REMEMBER THIS IS A BUISNESS. I AGREE PIP SUCKS!! BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO REPLACE IT? MANDATORY BI? I HOPE SO.
I am a NY agent & NY requires insurance proof to register a vehicle w/the DMV. After the policy has been purchased & the vehicle registered, if the policy cancels for any reason, the insurer is required by law to notify the DMV (electronically) that the policy canceled. The DMV checks to see if the registration is still active and sends notices out to the registrant advising that the policy canceled & the vehicle registration & registrants operators license will be suspended if proof of replacement insurance is not received by DMV. This proof must come from the carrier or the registrant. There is much checking back & forth between carriers & DMV.
A weak link in the systems is the individual who buys insurance just so he can register a car, then does not make any subsequent payments on the policy & it cancels for non-payment. These individuals do not suffer consequences until they are pulled over by the authorities, a check on the registration & license is run & they are at that time penalized. The problem here is an accident occurring before the individual gets caught by the authorities for driving an unregistered vehicle w/o a license. Aggravated unlicensed operation of a vehicle is a punishable offense in NY.
I know the system is not perfect, but I think without it, this crime would be much more prevalent, as it was prior to enactment of the law.
The Office of General Counsel to the DHSMV was asked to weigh in on the sunset of PIP and subsequent fall out to the DHSMV. the General Counsel issued an opinion on August 21, 2007 that states the following:
1) Proof property damage liability insurance must be submitted at the time of vehicle registration.
2) Parties involved in certain vehicle crashes must provide the investigating law enforcement officer with proof of insurance.
3) An owner who failes to maintain the required insruance and a driver who operates a vehicle without the required insurance is guilty of a misdemeanor; however, in light of the answers to # 5 and 6 below, thi will be difficult to prosecute.
4) The DHSMV will no longer be authorized to suspend the vehicle owner’s drivers’ license or motor vehicle registration.
5) Insurers will not be required to report issuance, renewals, cancellations and non-renewals of property damage liabiity policies to the DHSMV, nor will such reports be exempt from the public records act.
6) Vehicle operators will not be required to possess proof of property damage liability insurance cards or display the same to law enforcement officers.
Insurance Junkie, the opinion is ludicrous. Why would such an opinion be reached? What was the logic behind it?
Pardon my ignorance, but why with a law such as this on the books, would anyone buy auto insurance in the first place? This is perpetuating the problem of uninsured drivers.
It doesn’t seem like there are systems in place to punish those who do not carry insurance coverage.
Insurance Junkie is correct. There will be NO compulsory insurance required in the state of Fla as of Oct 1.
There is a law on the books regarding proof of liability in the event of an accident. But I have never seen it enforced. Neither has anyone else that I know that has been hit by someone with no liability coverage. It’s supposed to be a $1200 fine.
The system down here does perpetuate and yes, encourages no insurance. The fine for no insurance is $500 vs $2000 premiums. And that’s only if you’re caught. And anyone can carry the card that cancelled a week after inception. That’s all they look at. So a rough estimate is that 30% off all licensed drivers in Fla right now have no insurance. (okay, they also estimate that 15% of drivers on the road don’t even have licenses- so that number is even higher)
I’m figuring that 75% of cars that aren’t financed will have no insurance by this time next year. And the UM and Health Ins will most likely double.
Misty Meanor I’m so SORRY if caps offend you! And please get stay off the SCI FI CHANNEL and get a life! Don’t turn this chat line personal and nasty ok? We all are just fustrated with the system. When the comments were written in caps, its just thats the way I type…so chil out. I just received a fax on friday from bellsouth stating that the pip will not sunset 10/01/07 but will be extended til 01/2008. Now I’ve also heard it’s actually only until 10/03/07. Has anyone heard anything new lately?
As of Tuesday, 9/25(morning), there has been no confirmation if the Legislature will extend PIP or not.
The Miami Herald reported on Saturday 9/22 that a new deal is in the works – which adds a fee schedule on medical payments and pumps more money to fight insurance fraud. However this still needs to be reviewed by the Governor as well as House and Senate leaders.
There is chatter the Legislature may meet later this week to to discuss this new bill. Or they may wait until next week during their scheduled Special Session.
There is no confirmation on the Legislative, Governor or Office of Insurance Regulation’s webistes about any of this.
PCI (Property Casualty Insurers Association of America) put out a bulletin dated 9-20-07 indicating the “discussions at this time are nebulous, and members should not put too much faith in press reports of progress being made, etc.”
I have lived in most states that don’t have PIP, I really think they should raise all driving fines, I think they should be aggressive with uninsured motorists, in most states you can lose your car. My problem is that don’t enforce what laws we have. Not having PIP is not a big deal, running traffic lights, cutting people off and driving like you are the only one on the road is.
If you don’t have auto insurance, then our DMV should be updated to let the authorities know, they should be fined for everyday without insurance, they should lose their driving privileges.
LOOKS LIKE WE VOTED FOR THE WRONG GUY!! MANY AGENCYS(INCLUDING OUR OWN) MAYBE SHUTTING OUR DOORS SINCE THERE WILL BE NO INSURANCE LAW PASSED. MANY PEOPLE WILL NOT BUY NEW INSURANCE OR RENEWING CURRENT POLICIES IF THIS PASSES! MY FATHER, A 9/11 SURVIVOR, SOLD HIS HOUSE IN NEW JERSEY AND MOVED TO FLORIDA AND SPENT ALL HIS EARNINGS INTO BUYING OUR AGENCY!! NOW HE’S LOOKING TO LOSE IT ALL BECAUSE OF POLITICIANS (INCLUDING STATE FARM WHO MAY HAVE PAID THEM!!) NOT KNOWING HOW TO MAKE MORE MONEY??!!I MYSELF AM A MARRIED MAN WITH 4 CHILDREN AND ONE ON THE WAY, WILL BE WITHOUT A JOB BECAUSE NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO HIRE ME DUE TO THE FACT THERE WILL BE NO OPENINGS FROM ALL THE LAY OFFS!!!SO WHAT? WE WAIT TILL THE FIRST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ACCIDENTS OCCUR AND NO COVERAGE AWARDED (DUE TO NO INSURANCE LAW) TO BRING FLORIDA UP INTO HIGHER DEBT TO THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT??!OR UNTIL SOME LAW MAKERS FAMILY IS DEVISATED TO A LOSS AND THERE IS NO COVERAGE FOR THEM??!!THANKS GOV.CRIST AND ALL OTHER PARTIES INVOLVED (WHO WE STUPIDLY VOTED FOR!!). THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP…CAN’T WAIT TO SEE YOU ALL AT THE POLLS!!!
How is it so many people think insurance companies run the FL politicians? They don’t even want to talk to us.
Sorry Mr. Morales, but you are incorrect. PIP sunsetting is a “good” thing for Florida. Several other states are PIP free and they seem to get along just fine. The current system in Florida is full of fraud – this needs to be fixed by your legislature as well as creating a mechanism for your DMV to ensure people are even carrying insurance. There is a large percentage of Florida residents who do not carry any auto coverage (as stated in a press release from the DMV) and currently your DMV has no way of finding and prosecuting these people. Have a dialogue with the insurance companies you represent – all of them had to file (as did we)forms and rates on how they will handle a “no PIP” policy. Most are adding Med Pay and other coverages to compensate for the loss of PIP. In the end, most carriers rates will go down – which should make it easier for you to sell more policies. Do not blame the sunset of PIP on the insurance industry; your legislature had plenty of time to act on it during it’s regular session and in the special session in June. They failed you not the insurance industry. If you are that disappointed, try writing a letter to your statesmen!
Not sure what the big deal is. BI coverage is required in the State of Fla but you only have to prove to have it at the time of you being in an at fault accident with injury. So all they have to do is require drivers to prove it when they get their plates and renewal. There you will get your premium and the protection of all drivers.
Maybe the bucket shops will have to sell insurance now. Rather than just taking the down payment
The sunset of PIP is a good thing, but not putting anything in it’s place is ridiculous. Okay, it’s Florida.
IMHO, until they make the penalty for no insurance higher then the premiums for insurance, nothing is going to change anyway. $500 fine vs $2000 premiums?
And even if you have no insurance at the time of an accident, nothing happens to you. Just get hit by someone with no license or insurance and you learn. Whenever you hear of a non-licensed driver killing someone, you find out they’ve been picked up a dozen times or more for driving without license or insurance.
Basically, if you see a car that is older then a few years (ie not financed) just assume they have no insurance.
But that’s not a huge change from how it is now.
Even with the fraud PIP is the cheapest medical insurance there is. We have always sold increased limits because it was so cheap. The additional $90,000 was less than $20 annually. So while there may be fraud in the system, if they shackle enough doctors and put them on the news it’ll make the rest think twice about doing it and the fraud will subside.
If we lose PIP the cost will just transfer to our health coverage, and the cost to supplement the county hospitals will increase.
Most states that aren’t Nofault REQUIRE liability for medical payments. The problem here is that nothing is taking it’s place.
IF they required drivers to carry adaquate liability limits there wouldn’t be nearly the backlash on the health or UM coverage. (which I do expect to double within 2 years with nothing in place)
Dawn, I fully agree with your comments. But I don’t see our weak willed legislature mandating liability insurance on their “poor” constituents. They can’t get 45% of the folks to buy liability now.
That’s why I hope we at least keep PIP in place.
the only people who will lose jobs are crooked chiros and roving MRI businesses. It’s amazing how little people understand about insurance.
There are good points being made here, but the only change is that 1st party medical coverage is now purely optional. The remainder of the PIP law is not enforced.
Facts:
State Farm makes a lot of $$ off BI/UM/PD/Collisin and Med Pay. They actually run PIP at a loss.
They advertized heavily that a 16% decrease in rates would follow the PIP Sunset (assuming you do not buy Med Pay as replacement), but then filed a combined 14.1% rate increase on the other coverages to cover the anticipated increase in frequency on UM, Collision and Med Pay. So consumers will see no measurable rate decrease post the sunset,and now have no medical coverage. If you now buy Med Pay, you will have a rate increase without PIP. The plan next year will be to push for mandatory BI (much more profitable than PIP) with no PIP as the excuse, hence even higher insurance costs and bigger profits.
Thanks you Insurance Junkie for the comments. You hit the nail on the head. And by the way. BI is not required in the state of Florida, only financial responsibility. It makes no sense that the state with the worst drivers has the minimum coverage allowed in the whole country. They should make BI mandatory at 25/50 and you should purchase med pay! Talk to an informed agent, not a bucket shop that makes money on the add ons!
IF PIP SUNSETS….WHOSE TO SAY WHEN YOU SELL(WOW GREAT LIABILITY 25/50 AND NO ADD ONS GENIUS JUST PURE INSURANCE) SMART GUY..OH I’M SORRY..INSURANCE GUY, WHOSE TO STOP THAT PERSON FROM PAYING YOU A DOWN PAYMENT, GOING TO THE TAG OFFICE, REGISTERING, AND THEN COMING BACK THE NEXT DAY AND CANCELLING HIS POLICY SINCE HE DOES’NT HAVE TO HAVE INSURANCE BY LAW? OR, I’M SORRY, NOT ENFORCED? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP UNEARNS DOWN WHEN PEOPLE CANCEL THEIR POLICIES MID-TERM AND DON’T REINSTATE BECAUSE ITS NOT LAW?REMEMBER THIS IS A BUISNESS. I AGREE PIP SUCKS!! BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO REPLACE IT? MANDATORY BI? I HOPE SO.
I am a NY agent & NY requires insurance proof to register a vehicle w/the DMV. After the policy has been purchased & the vehicle registered, if the policy cancels for any reason, the insurer is required by law to notify the DMV (electronically) that the policy canceled. The DMV checks to see if the registration is still active and sends notices out to the registrant advising that the policy canceled & the vehicle registration & registrants operators license will be suspended if proof of replacement insurance is not received by DMV. This proof must come from the carrier or the registrant. There is much checking back & forth between carriers & DMV.
A weak link in the systems is the individual who buys insurance just so he can register a car, then does not make any subsequent payments on the policy & it cancels for non-payment. These individuals do not suffer consequences until they are pulled over by the authorities, a check on the registration & license is run & they are at that time penalized. The problem here is an accident occurring before the individual gets caught by the authorities for driving an unregistered vehicle w/o a license. Aggravated unlicensed operation of a vehicle is a punishable offense in NY.
I know the system is not perfect, but I think without it, this crime would be much more prevalent, as it was prior to enactment of the law.
The Office of General Counsel to the DHSMV was asked to weigh in on the sunset of PIP and subsequent fall out to the DHSMV. the General Counsel issued an opinion on August 21, 2007 that states the following:
1) Proof property damage liability insurance must be submitted at the time of vehicle registration.
2) Parties involved in certain vehicle crashes must provide the investigating law enforcement officer with proof of insurance.
3) An owner who failes to maintain the required insruance and a driver who operates a vehicle without the required insurance is guilty of a misdemeanor; however, in light of the answers to # 5 and 6 below, thi will be difficult to prosecute.
4) The DHSMV will no longer be authorized to suspend the vehicle owner’s drivers’ license or motor vehicle registration.
5) Insurers will not be required to report issuance, renewals, cancellations and non-renewals of property damage liabiity policies to the DHSMV, nor will such reports be exempt from the public records act.
6) Vehicle operators will not be required to possess proof of property damage liability insurance cards or display the same to law enforcement officers.
Insurance Junkie, the opinion is ludicrous. Why would such an opinion be reached? What was the logic behind it?
Pardon my ignorance, but why with a law such as this on the books, would anyone buy auto insurance in the first place? This is perpetuating the problem of uninsured drivers.
It doesn’t seem like there are systems in place to punish those who do not carry insurance coverage.
Insurance Junkie is correct. There will be NO compulsory insurance required in the state of Fla as of Oct 1.
There is a law on the books regarding proof of liability in the event of an accident. But I have never seen it enforced. Neither has anyone else that I know that has been hit by someone with no liability coverage. It’s supposed to be a $1200 fine.
The system down here does perpetuate and yes, encourages no insurance. The fine for no insurance is $500 vs $2000 premiums. And that’s only if you’re caught. And anyone can carry the card that cancelled a week after inception. That’s all they look at. So a rough estimate is that 30% off all licensed drivers in Fla right now have no insurance. (okay, they also estimate that 15% of drivers on the road don’t even have licenses- so that number is even higher)
I’m figuring that 75% of cars that aren’t financed will have no insurance by this time next year. And the UM and Health Ins will most likely double.
i think it sucks there is no help for you when a driver with no in hits you I gest the hospetles well pick up the bills
Who Cares — you fracking idiot, quit yelling (using your caps) and write in a regular style so we are willing to read your posts.
Misty Meanor I’m so SORRY if caps offend you! And please get stay off the SCI FI CHANNEL and get a life! Don’t turn this chat line personal and nasty ok? We all are just fustrated with the system. When the comments were written in caps, its just thats the way I type…so chil out. I just received a fax on friday from bellsouth stating that the pip will not sunset 10/01/07 but will be extended til 01/2008. Now I’ve also heard it’s actually only until 10/03/07. Has anyone heard anything new lately?
As of Tuesday, 9/25(morning), there has been no confirmation if the Legislature will extend PIP or not.
The Miami Herald reported on Saturday 9/22 that a new deal is in the works – which adds a fee schedule on medical payments and pumps more money to fight insurance fraud. However this still needs to be reviewed by the Governor as well as House and Senate leaders.
There is chatter the Legislature may meet later this week to to discuss this new bill. Or they may wait until next week during their scheduled Special Session.
There is no confirmation on the Legislative, Governor or Office of Insurance Regulation’s webistes about any of this.
PCI (Property Casualty Insurers Association of America) put out a bulletin dated 9-20-07 indicating the “discussions at this time are nebulous, and members should not put too much faith in press reports of progress being made, etc.”
I have lived in most states that don’t have PIP, I really think they should raise all driving fines, I think they should be aggressive with uninsured motorists, in most states you can lose your car. My problem is that don’t enforce what laws we have. Not having PIP is not a big deal, running traffic lights, cutting people off and driving like you are the only one on the road is.
If you don’t have auto insurance, then our DMV should be updated to let the authorities know, they should be fined for everyday without insurance, they should lose their driving privileges.