Looking at Farmer's

[Career changer]

I was in Pharmaceutical sales for many years and am now looking at a new career. I interviewed with Allstate and Farmers for agency positions, and the difference was night and day! Farmers requires much less risk and investment, and the training they provide is roughly equally good.

Plus, the impression I got was that Allstate is a much higher pressure position. Can anyone offer me input as to the best company to start with to break into Insurance sales? On review of this board, it seemed to me like there are a lot of ex Farmers agents out there. Why do you guys leave them?

[mica.cooper]

Be very careful to check out the terms of the contract you will be signing.

What is the minimum number of policies you need to write before your book starts earning (YOU) commissions?
How long do you have to get there?
If your taking over a book, do you have a certified audit of policies in force? (I would)
And most important
Who gets your commission if you don't meet the minimum? ...

If your independent, there is NO MINIMUM and you get ALL of your commission from the first to last policy.

Also, I am seeing a lot of business swing from the captives such as Farmers and State Farm as they increase rates...some are applying for rate increases over 40%.

[SFOInsuranceLady]

I agree with Mica. Why Farmer's of all carriers? I worked for a Farmer's agent when starting in this buisness. THEY OWN THE AIR YOU BREATHE. Why don't you try working for a large independent agency to get your feet wet, so to speak.
You can gain enough experience and then go independent. In the P & C end of it, Comemrcial Lines is the bread and butter of the business. Good luck to you whichever way you choose!

[kevinraz]

Career Changer, you need to sit down and analyze both situations carefully. I'm not very familiar with Allstate's program. I left Farmers in 1999 due to their screwed up technology. From the posts I read it sounds like not much has changed in that department.

When I started with Farmers they had a career agency path- had to sell so much auto, home & life in a 90 day period within 12 months to get off the part time agent rung, then you kept climbing the ladder by selling policies. Note that it is not based on how much you make, just how much you sell. I had a pretty good policy count but my income was low because commissions were low where I was at.

If you take them up on the offer of funding/financing for your start - and most people do (I did) - carefully look at the requirements for getting all or some of the loan forgiven. They will probably waive that in front of you as an enticement. I missed getting the loans forgiven by just a few policies and that really hurt the bank account.

And note that you will be required to sell more than auto & home. With Farmers life insurance production was judged on the premium paid for the policy - a decent sized term policy had very little production count while a small permanent (UL or whole life) policy had a much higher count. I needed to write about 5 or so life policies a month to keep going and had to have a few of them be permanent - that might not sound like much but getting someone to commit to putting out $25 a month for life insurance is not easy, at least not for the average Joe. I think selling permanent life policies in today's financial mess must be really difficult.

Of the dozen or so agents who came on board in a three year period back in the 90's only one is still with Farmers, a pretty bad attrition rate. Most left within 4 years like I did.

While I urge caution and due diligence I also believe that there is room for more agents out there but you've got to be willing to work long & hard to make it. The captives can be a good way to go but there are positives to the independent side as well. Good luck and good hunting!

[gl1500]

What has been said is correct. But if you have been in the business for a while, you know it ebbs and flows. I guess everything is what you make it. I just finished 27 year with Farmers. I am aware that the new contract is much different than the one I signed. If I was to start over, I would do it the same but take more advantage of the DM and other services provided. As with any venture look at all of the angles. Finally, if you are worried about rate changes then you are selling the wrong part of insurance.

[FARMERSGURL]

I have been with Farmers for a little over a year and became "career" in April of this year. I love Farmers but I will say that I agree with some of the posts in that it is more about app count than premium. In my opinion either way you go in insurance you have some of the same issues (commisions, technology, company people etc.). If you have never been in insurance I strongly recommend you work for someone else first to familiarize yourself with the industry. I would have never gone on my own right out of the gate. It is hard enough to make it even with all the experience I came to Farmers with. Hope that helps!

[Career changer]

I appreciate this candid feedback very much! I may even go as far as to print this out and take it to the DM for our next interview. Incidentally, I own a home, and the referred agent when I purchased a year ago hasn't followed up even once, and he first quoted me an insured amount on my home that was the selling price -- he wanted to insure my lot! I had him requote, and the premium was 60% less, so due to that and the rush factor I bought his policy.

But I quoted Farmer's and the people were all high quality and their prices were low. When the girl asked me to allow her to quote home with auto, she beat Geiko and Traveler's, who has my homeowner's, by a significant amount, so I will buy from them. I would think in the tough times we're all facing, many more homeowners would be open to saving a few hundred bucks a year, so it may be a good time to get into the business.

I agree with Kevinraz that the policy count shouldn't matter as much as the dollar amount total of the policies, but I think that's how they have it -- if I sell two home policies for $100,000 each, that's better than selling one $200,000 policy, or even better than one $1,000,000 policy.

Thank you for your candid input and anyone else who has thoughts, please share them!

[gregcw]

I'm one of the ex-Farmers agents alluded to by one of these posts. I started out with Farmers in 1982 and we parted company in 1989 at exactly 7 years. I then went I/A and I've posted on many of these forums about Farmers and there is abslolutely no love lost between us.

Farmers is responsible for the large percentage of the scratch indendent agencies that I see or meet at PIA conventions. I think that a lot of the things that have been said about Farmers can be attributed to their sales philosophy of 'throw as many new agents up against a wall to see how many stick'. Compound that with a District Manager whose only function is to throw those agents on the wall and TRY to train new agents. Their Sales Department, above the District Manager, im my region were all ladder Climbers that didn't/don't care WHO they use for steps. The District Managers range from zero to Excellent. As an Insurance company they do an adequate job. If only their management could be trained to be truthful. I had so many lies told to me by the management team that I can't believe that it is not company policy.

In my service area there are currently 3 State Farm agents and 9 Farmers agents. When I started in the business with Farmers in 1982 there were 3 State Farm agents and 4 Farmers agents. Over the next 26 years State Farm has appointed 3 new agents and has had 2 retire to maintain 3 agents. The State Farm agent that didn't make it, went to work for a Farmers agent, and now neither of them are insurance agents. Farmers, however, has appointed at least 40 agents and has only had 3 agents retire. There may also be agents that Farmers has appointed that I am not aware of but there are still only 7 offices with 9 agents.

You are working with a District Manager (DM) with Farmers. I consider mine was a District Mangler not Manager. As I said I was appointed by Farmers for 7 years before we decided to part company. This was shortly after they were aquired by British American Tobacco U.S.

With Farmers it is important to learn how to spell the word I-N-S-U-R-A-N-C-E. Farmers spends an inordinant amount of time on training to sell life insurance and prospecting but not nearly enough on INSURANCE TRAINING for property and casualty. I do agree with kevinraz that there is room for more agents out there. If you are working FOR Farmers you need to be extremely careful. I do know, by talking with long term Farmers Agents, that gl1500 is unusual. It sounds like he had a REAL DM and not one like mine that I understand is more common. kevinraz urged caution and due diligence. I would modify that by adding one word, extreme. You might want to search the insurace Journal discussion data base for Farmers Insurance. I just did and pulled up 18 discussions that at least included Farmers.

In conclusion; While I don't think much of Allstate, as an Insurance Company, I think that if you were going to be a Captive agent either them or State Farm would be a better choice. One other that I've had no exposure to is American Family.

[Reeder]

I picked up Farmer's as a second carrier last June. It was very easy to get a contract. Thier website is awfull, constant problems. I found myself calling the help desk on every quote to see what went wrong. The people were very nice but could not fix any problems. I waste a great deal of time with every Farmer's quote much less policy changes. And just as I thought I had a handle on writing business with them they pulled out of my State for all homwowner's business(NC). Our coastal exposure left them open to a large assesment if a major hurricane came through. Don't worry my DM said "we still have the auto product". As for that Farmer's has very good rates and broad acceptibility here. I was told later that they had pulled out of this state before leaving agent high and dry. In NC Farmer's is all independent agents, so it is more apt to pull up stakes and leave. Maybe in a captive state for Farmer's they may be more inclined to stick around. Just my experience.

[Bart]

As an agent who has been with Farmers for 30 years I would advise "career change" to visit Farmers-online.com, read everything on the web site, then make a decision. Farmers is not the same company it was 30 years ago and the changes, some good some bad, have led to a very dysfunctional organization. DM's are the last people you should be listening to, believe me when I say that you will be offered something that cannot be delivered, they are only interested in one thing, numbers. The more agents they put on the stronger the likely hood of them staying around, our area has more Farmers agents than all of the direct writers combined, my money is being spent competeing with my own company to write business! Not a great way to do business, especially when the new agents are being taught to only sell and to use any means at their disposal to accomplish that goal. Legal or otherwise.

[Career changer]

Man, this reminds me of some of the horror show in big pharma. My company switched their IT system to a Seibel thing that was so full of software and security that it took -- literally, seriousy, no kidding -- 26 minutes to boot up! We had to use it all day to log call activity, and it locked up requiring a hard reboot on an average on two times a day. I did the math and in a typical a month I wasted 2 full days waiting for the system to reboot.

The DSMs did not care one iota, and if you complained you were looked down on, everyone had to say how great everything was all the time. Looking back, they did pay a fat salary and it is a rather easy living, but the threat of termination was included in every assignment, overtly. "Failure to comply may result in disciplinary action up to and including termination" was at the bottom of every little corporate initiative, and there were plenty.

The Farmer's DM is ready to go after one interview so it fits that he just wants quality reps out there, if they work out great, if not, then what the hell, no skin off his nose. I would be an independent agent, not an employee.

But consider, I am a complete insurance novice. If I work for an independent, the training will suck, as will name recognition. I thought Farmer's was part of the Zurich Financial Group, not a tobacco company, anyway.

If I try it for a few months, get my licensing and training, I'll be better off as a producer for an independent agent, right? Allstate wants me to pay for everything, including travel to their facility, hotel and food, for a week, then they want me to open an office, hire staff and another trainee, on my dime, and if it doesn't work out, I get a "90 day letter."

Could I apply for an independent and get good training and leads?

[yotes fan]

every company has shitty website, so I woundnt judge by that,

I have no idea where you live at, but go in and sit down with agents from each compnay including IA's.

AND more importantly (even thou it changes alot) get quotes from all companies around in your area. You dont want to start with the company who has the highest rates right now.

Just remember, it is a career, not just a job you can switch easily,

[lonestar]

Career Changer, I have been with Farmers for 10 years. I would not recommend going with them unless you are prepared to be treated like an employee. Ask your DM if you have any expectations or quotas on life insurance, and see what he says. If you tell him that you do not have any intention of writing life insurance after you "Career", see how he reacts. You do not own your book of business. Farmers does. As an independent agent, you own the policies. Farmers whole focus is on you selling 24 life insurance policies per year from now on. And, the life commission they pay is 1/3 what independent agents get.(40% vs 120%) Also, their life rates are about 40-50% higher than the independent companies. Auto commission is 10%, where most independent companies pay 15% to 18%. If you feel you have no other choice to break into the business, do the Farmers thing for a year or two, get trained, and then go independent. Just my two cents. I know several ex Farmers agents that would tell you the same thing. Oh, one more thing: Go talk to 2 or 3 Farmers agents in your town that have been around for at least 10 years. SEEK OUT THESE AGENTS ON YOUR OWN, don't talk to the ones your DM recommends! Then ask these agents how they like Farmers, and ask them if their rates are competitive in your area. If the rates are not competitive across the board, it will be hard to grow your business. Good luck. Also, you might want to visit http://www.ufaa.com. and check out the public forum section.

[Career changer]

God I love the internet! My old company forbade us from posting on http://www.cafepharma.com under threat of termination if we used company equipment to do so! I'm sure the water drinkers at Farmer's and every other corporate entity are likewise.

Don't know what I'm going to do. Don't even know how to find the big name independents in my area. I know a guy who knew the business, moved to Tapma, opened his own independent agency 10 years ago, and is now worth 10 million!

Thank you for the input, there is no "easy" way, but knowledge is power.

[ED3771316]

If its a decision between Farmers and Allstate, look at the contract. FArmers allows you to Broker Business and has a Family Rights passage.

The Tech issues with Farmers may end up being resolved as they have brought in Bristol West People to fix what Mr Hopkins let become a total night mare. His habit of hiring the Community College Drop outs to program the system did not work. The Farmers system in its current format is not user friendly.

For all you Farmers guys out there. try your transaction one time. If it fails, hit your feed back tab and complain. Then pick up the phone and let service point do it for you. You will save time and payroll. They will not know how bad it is until everyone gets on their case. Flood them with basic service calls that you as the agent should be able to do in a timely mannor.

Before you decide to go Independant, consider the power of the brand name. Many agents are bleeding their book over to independant. Some DMS have told their agents to do what they have to to save their agencies in my state. This has become necessary for guys to survive as rates in my state are way out of wack. The 10+ year clients are walking faster then they can be replaced. Only one agent in my District actually had a policy gain. This is in large part due to the lack of listening to the agents. My very first District Meeting, the vets were asking for a long term discount. Instead we got new business gimick discounts. Helps for new buiness pricing but does nothing for the people that have been around.

Farmers, in my state, is a mess right now. We did celebrate at the announcement that Hopkins was "promoted" out of the country. Even more when we found out his replacements first name was not Bill.