Anyone with opinion on EZBuy electronic signatures

[mhutch69]

Mica,

Again, you cite the pricing changes for captives versus independents but you fail to cite the growth or lack thereof between independents and the large direct writers?

I would venture to guess that independents lost ground in most lines of business due to the multiple options for quoting and purchase provided by the large financially able captive companies.

I did not state independents have no brains nor did I state their associations were any less intelligent.

I said there is not a centralized effort BY the indepedent associations to compete using technology which is endorsed by all major carriers to attempt to compete using our full strength.

Please continue to do business the way you do.

I enjoy competing with producers such as yourself.

[mica.cooper]

Well yes, you did make derogatory statements of agents and their associations.

...and FYI, many independent agents have grown significantly in the past few years.

[mhutch69]

Honey,

do it your way.

That is just fine with me. You will not be a challenge.

[Kelso II]

#1 An agent should NEVER NEVER NEVER use an electronic signature for an initial offer of coverage. You should always meet the person, verify their identity, and get a wet, or in person handwritten electronic signature.

#2 Once the initial verification of identity is done, then you can offer a customer the option of making changes, etc with an electronic signature, where you are not present.

There are two types of electronic signatures, the first is a handwritten electronic signature like you sign when you use a credit card, the second, is a click sign, where you check a box. The second type should never be used in an initial offer of coverage unless the insured is present and makes a wet signature that you keep on file.

Maybe that makes you comfortable. But it is unnecessary. Actually there are more than "two types" of e-signatures. But there are not various levels of quality in the e-signature when comparing a click to signing like a credit card. If the proper protocol (behind the scenes stuff) is designed and presented properly, an e-signature is an e-signature regardless if you click it or scribble it.

[mica.cooper]

I understand you are probably trying to sell this tech Kelso.

An agent is a rep for a company, and if the company likes it, and that agent uses it, great. All of the companies I work with accept an e-click with a handwritten signature on file, or a handwritten e-signature, however none will accept an e-click alone. And I would call you on the quality of the e-signature. An electronic handwritten signature accepted by an agent IN PERSON, where the identity is verified, is better, although both are legal. Anyone can be on the other end of a click and provide email, birthdate, address, etc for e-click verification, and can lead to e-click fraud. I have actually been the victim of e-click bank fraud. Its no fun, although I fail to see the gain except perhaps in the case of claim, a lawyer could have a hay day with it.

I think this would make a great poll

[Kelso II]

I understand you are probably trying to sell this tech Kelso.

An agent is a rep for a company, and if the company likes it, and that agent uses it, great. All of the companies I work with accept an e-click with a handwritten signature on file, or a handwritten e-signature, however none will accept an e-click alone. And I would call you on the quality of the e-signature. An electronic handwritten signature accepted by an agent IN PERSON, where the identity is verified, is better, although both are legal. Anyone can be on the other end of a click and provide email, birthdate, address, etc for e-click verification, and can lead to e-click fraud. I have actually been the victim of e-click bank fraud. Its no fun, although I fail to see the gain except perhaps in the case of claim, a lawyer could have a hay day with it.

I think this would make a great poll

Not trying to sell this tech or anything else. Just enlightening those who don't know much about the subject. You may want to Google E-Sign Act or Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or log onto www.spers.org to help clarify the reality of e-signatures. Many agents these days also do fax applications and anyone can be on the other end of a fax machine. We all know the shortcoming of fax applications i.e. inconvenient, few people have one, missing signatures, missing pages. Yet many, many carriers accept fax apps with faxed back signatures. Regardless of whether it was a fax or e-signature sale, if someone fraudulently provided names, birthdates, etc, you seem to be overlooking Insurance 101 basics about the insured making a "material misrepresentation" or not having an "insurable interest" in the risk being insured. Even if I succeeded in pretending to be you and successfully signed an insurance application for your car, the coverage would be void because any claims rep worth their salt could easily determine that I had no insurable interest in your car and that I had lied about it. Perhaps you do not do fax deals and restrict yourself to only in person signings. That may be adequate for you. But agents who live by the principle of face to face selling will, in time, die by that princple while waiting for a customer to hopefully keep a scheduled appointment, drive to an office that may be out of their way, or lose a customer to a competing agent who happens to be closer and more convenient. As for the validaty of "click" signing, just ask GEICO, Progressive Direct or the others who are taking away the independent agents business online now. Not because they are cheaper but because they are easier and more convenient to buy from thanks to e-signatures. Seems the writing is on the wall and it's time to get on board or get left behind.

Oh and P.S. - Not sure what carriers you are referring too that don't accept an "e click alone" e-signature. I have investigatied it and found that the ones that don't accept "e click" are in the vast minority.

[choicenotchance]

Are all of you guys just kidding me? Do you really live in the dark ages? I use to have 8 track tapes but gave those up years ago for a better technology. Actually...please...keep doing business the way you are & I'll keep taking your business because my way is soooo much more convenient for your customers. I am a customer of EZBuy’s & have been for some time. I went from selling insurance within my community to selling insurance throughout the state…. And I only have 1 office in a very small town.

[KPIA]

The reason this has come to get such serious consideration from me is that Mercury is using it now. In fact they not only allow it but they themselves use it extensively in their direct sales department, AIS, whose personal lines production likely dwarfs all of ours.

The beauty of it all, is nobody is required to use it. We can all proceed with the business model we deem appropriate for our agency and branding goals.

That being said, good luck to us all.

[mica.cooper]

From the Insurance Journal Dec 6, 2010
E&O Insights, by Curtis Pearsall

When there are disputes involving the accuracy of information on an application, a key element will be the insured's signature. If the insured has signed the application, generally they will be held responsible for the content.

While a click sign may be legal, the challenge comes in court. Having a fully documented, signed, application with all disclosures, exclusions, etc is the best chance of succeeding. I guess the question is, are you willing to chance denying a claim based on material representation, without a signed application?

Keep in mind, the court will give ALL leniency and doubt toward the claimant and none towards the agent/carrier. This is the way the law works.

Also, if the agent is doing the clicking, without a signature, thats probably over the top and I would guess place the E&O squarely on the agent's shoulders. In this case, the claimant can always waive a misrepresentation as a mistake on the agents part.

[choicenotchance]

I know with EZBuy....I get a very detailed audit trail which specifies exactly what the customer clicked and the exact second that the customer clicked. I have a complete log of everything the customer did on the transaction. From what I have read & heard from attornies that know e-signature (Check with Locke Lord, Bissell & Liddel www.lockelord.com - the leading e-signature attornies) the e-signature with an audit trail is much easier to prove the customers intentions. If the customer did not click at all...didn't log in...not them.. and there is no insurable interest...then there is no coverage at all...no issue... but if they agreed that they do have coverage...then how can they dispute that they didn't click that one UM waiver but clicked everything else?

So mica.cooper...are you just trying to discredit e-signature? This is a pretty easy argument... just ask Geico & Progressive & Unitrin Direct & ESurance...they seem to be doing pretty well with it. I have been using EZbuy for a couple years now....and have had not one single issue.

I know that if your agent is doing the clicking...then you have employee issues & not e-signature issues. The fact is that e-signature is here...and it's not going away. So your either going to embrace it...or sorry to say...loose your customers to those of us who do.

Good Luck!

[mica.cooper]

Electronic signature is GREAT! But it is not without its warts.

Today, more and more agents are using unlicensed producers and CSR's and allowing them to quote/bind. Many agents also fall into the technology trap. I am simply trying to highlight some of those problems with e-sign. All but one of the companies I work with allow e-signature for straight through processing...BUT, they require the agents to have a paper signed application, and their is an audit clause in the agent contract. I am most comfortable with this option, and feel it provides the best protection for the agency and carrier. If e-sign only works for you, go for it!

I am simply pointing some issues out with e-sign since this thread seems to be a big promotion for EZBuy.....
Some others out there DocuSign, EchoSign, AGreenSign, Arx.com, SignOnline, Adobe, all with differing variations.

[Kelso II]

Seems the unlicensed producer and CSR thing is more about legal and ethical behavior rather than technology or if e-signing has weaknesses. Can the argument be made that Ford Motor Co. is culpable if a bad guy uses a Mustang to flee a bank robbery? Is Xerox guilty of aiding and abeting a criminal who uses one of their copy machines to print counterfeit money? Nothing out there, in any industry, is abuse proof if the "intent" is something other than what it was made for. But if properly used, things (technology) do work just fine including e-signatures. From typewriters to computers. From dial up internet to WiFi. It all evolves for better functionality and efficiencies. Perhaps some of the carriers you use are the last to the technology party. In the mean time, there are alot of carriers (at least the ones I use) who have seen the light or are now playing catch-up. E-signatures works for me because it allows me to offer prospective customers all the various ways to buy. If they want to drive to my office than great! if they want to do it by fax, that's okay. But if they don't want to drive or have a fax then they can buy from me online. I simply let them decide how they want to buy...as long as it is from me. It's worth it to me to be available as many ways as possible that results in more, SAFE sales. You also mention that, "this thread seems to be a big promotion for EZBuy..." But isn't the title of the thread "Anyone with opinion on EZBuy electronic signatures"? It seems these are opinions for the question that was originally asked. If there was a change in the origianl subject, I guess I missed it. There are a ton of e-signature companies out there to pick from. But the reason I chose EZBuy to use in my agency is that it was inexpensive, fits my workflow best, allows me to view the documents online with the customer while they are signing and has a feature that allows me to get the down payment at the time of e-signing. None of the others have those things which I feel is important to my selling. But again, that is my opinion and not meant to be a promotion for EZBuy. It works for me and everyone should do their homework and find out for themselves.

[choicenotchance]

mica I'm glad that you like e-signature... just seems that your arguments throughout this thread have been against it. So I'm a little confused by your postings. Like Kelso above I'm just stating my opinion of EZBuy because I've been a user of it. I chose EZbuy for 2 reasons..... 1 because the other companies mainly deal with Real Estate & EZbuy mainly deals with Insurance so they know the insurance issues.... and 2... the cost... I can pass my fee's off to the consumer so EZBuy ends up being free for me where the others have a bunch of 'hidden' fees. I did try DocUSign for a couple months but when they asked for my credit card when I had a support question...well that was it for me. I guess I am promoting EZBuy because it works for me... but I mainly put my 2 cents in here because of the title 'Anyone with opinion on EZBuy electronic signatures'.

[mcu agent]

My opinion about this subject is: Great, when can I start using it. I do most of my transactions bia telephone, fax & e-mail. All my companies will allow a faxed signature. Of course I speak with everyone on the telephone first to gather the info I need.
I personally checked-out DocuSign and have used it more than once when switching phone carriers. It works well and allows downloading of the "signed" apps as well as printing them. However, the real question about all of this - that was only briefly touched on, is this: Will your insurance company allow you to use it. This can be a real contractual nightmare, not to mention an E&O problem. So far I am 0 for 3 with our companies (all personal lines). Interestingly, Progressive (agency side) does not currently allow it but is investigating it with one of the vendors mentioned. Yes, in my State (Michigan) Progressive (on the agency side) does have e-signing, but only for their auto product, not Special Lines and that's their own homegrown solution. The other companies just flat out said No!

So whether or not you want to use it, get it in writing that your company(s) will allow you to use it and make sure that their terms are strictly adhered to, lest you find yourself high and dry.

[Kelso II]

I'm in California so I'm not all that familiar with Michigan carriers. I can tell you that I use it here with Mercury, Infinity, Safeco and a bunch of others. I use it with Arrowhead General as well which I think is in Michigan. One of the things about asking a carrier is asking the right person. I'd get all kinds of different responses when I just asked the marketing reps. I've found that carriers tend to be conservative when approached with new things. I would start a conversation with one carrier person then end up having to re-explain myself to someone else, who was suppose to be a decision maker, only to get past off to another person. But I did find that most of the carriers considered it when enough of my agent friends asked as well and we got to the right person. If you are the first (or one of the first) to ask in Michigan, it may be more of an awareness thing. Once the carriers understood that it would help me sell more of their product, safely, then everything was fine.