The only reason Farmers is paying up in Texas is because they\’re under a magnifying glass with TDI and they have half the number of customers they had 3 years ago. AND, they don\’t even write wind in the coast in Texas like State Farm and Allstate does. Of course it\’s going to go smoothly when you have a fifth of the number of claims as the rest of people. Duh.
A $1 million fine won\’t affect Farmers\’ Insurance. Of course, they\’ll use it as an excuse if their company gets into trouble in the next quarter or so, but, as it\’s been said, it\’s all \”smoke and mirrors\”. If they\’ve been up to this sort of crap as long as people say, then the fine should be ten or even fifty times as much as it was.
no comapny is perfect…Farmers response to hurricane rita has been stellar. the new administration has not been at the helm very long, we certainly have seen improvements in texas. Ask anyone in Southast Texas who has paid quickly and with the least hassles; Farmers name will come up. Call me a homer, but my customers are super happy!
I want to write a comment about my experience with Farmers, and want to point out that there are good adjusters that look out for their clients. My adjuster James Jeanes from Texarkana AR , was an absolute sweetheart that went out of his way to help me with my claim. He met me at the storage facility in Queen City Texas, and was very helpful, and compassionate during our meeting. My things were ruined by an arsonist that started the fire, and I was very upset about losing so much two weeks before Christmas in 2008. He was a life-saver, and went above and beyond what was expected, and I am so glad that he was my adjuster. He is a wonderful , and very professional man ,and helped me get more than I expected. He was very courteous,and returned calls promptly, and helped me get through a very difficult loss, and I feel that he is a great asset for Farmer’s Insurance. Not everyone has a bad experience, and I am glad that he was there for me. There are some very nice people that work for Farmer’s , and he is one of the best ! Thanks Farmer’s for being a great company for me during my loss !
Folks, this is what the CA DOI is all about. The fines generated start at $5,000 per occurrence and can be doubled to $10,000 per occurrence if it is determined that it is a business practice (per type of occurrence.)
Based upon the size of the fine and the percentage of overall business written in CA by Farmers, this is a very small fine and was drastically reduced through negotiations. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
The next step is for the CA DOI to sum up all the $$$ generated by fines and present that information to the public and the state legislators, as it serves a dual purpose. It gives the consumers warm and fazzies, as the DOI is showing that they are taking money from the big, bad insurance carriers. Secondly, they can tell the lawmakers that they are generators of $$ to the state\’s treasury and they should get their budget request approved, so that they can go and generate additional income for the state.
SMOKE & MIRRORS!!!!!
This is not just another story folks. This company is in trouble. Knowing how Farmers operates, they\’ll have their stooges posting polite words here and will most likely introduce some new and wonderful discount for their policyholders tomorrow just like they did when Garamendi criticized them for their W/Comp rating. Farmers is proud of their slogan: \”We get you back to Court where you belong.\”
DM: You shd be proud to be a Farmers agent for the first forty years but not the last 10. Unfortunately you don\’t deal with claims so you really don\’t have a clue how horrible Farmers is these days. It took a class action for Farmers to stop using Collosus on first party claims and it took another class action to get Farmers to pay their adjusters overtime. You work for a company that was not bad before but is very bad now.
Most good consumer attorneys are trial attorneys, as am I. But not for various consumer groups, who have no money, and trial attorneys, who have a fraction of the money the insurance industry has at its disposal, the insurance industry and big business would have passed laws long ago preventing anyone but them access to the courts. I have represented enough right wing anti trial attorney Republicans here in Orange County, the home of the John Birch Society, who have come running to me for their insurance claims (after a carrier has denied it or lowballed them) against an insurance company who feel their claim is valid but no one else could possibly have a valid claim. Who is there to level the playing field and bail them out—yes, me a trial attorney. Chief hypocrite in point is Trent Lott who just hired a trial atty to file an action against his homeowners carrier for his Katrina damage. What a shock, a carrier denying a claim. I guess Bush is not going to be swinging on that porch swing anytime soon as he stated he would. How did Farmers adjusters get overtime pay here in California? Yes, by way of a trial attorney who filed a class action. Trial attorneys man the thin line that prevents a complete takover of the court system by big business (which by the way files more lawsuits than victims of accidents on a yearly basis). So tonight before you go to bed thank the good Lord for trial attorneys who allow you to live in the safest country in the world, with the most stable court system known to mankind (business cannot be transacted without a court system that allows grievances to be resolved in a non violent fashion—-think Iraq for the opposite system) and at the same time allow people like you to hire an attorney to protect your constitutional rights, be it the right to say your peace, carry a gun, rant about your own government or the right to have a jury of your peers find that a bllion dollar insurance company has violated its contract with you. Shakespear said \”kill all of the attorneys\”. He said it in the context that the government and moneyholders would need to do that in order to have the unfettered ability to establish whatever laws and procedures desired to maintain the power over the people. Fortunately that has not happened yet although the Chamber of Commerce and the Insurance Industry are sure making a run at it. So yes, I am a trial attorney and damn proud of it.
Okay Saint Chris, thanks for the entertaining comments. Leave it to a Trial Lawyer to change the subject and shift the focus all together. Your comments have nothing to do with basic premis of this article. I\’ll go to bed tonight thanking the Good Lord you live a couple thousand miles from me. Maybe read the article and try again…..
Your absolutely right. I did go off on a tangent. Getting back to the point, yes Farmers is a horrible carrier and its claims process is intended to prevent valid claims from being paid in a timely fashion, which is reflective of the fine it just received. As a last point, if an insurance company decides to not pay one of your claims (or a family member\’s claims) don\’t be a hypocrite like Trent Lott (or Rick Santorum Sen. from Penn. whose wife is suing a chiropractor for $500,000–he says she deserves it–even though the good Senator backs legislation that would cap general damages in malpractice cases at $250,000 for everyone else who I guess don\’t deserve anything over 250–) handle the claim by yourself. I am sure your friends at the insurance company will treat you fairly.
There is a reason the trial lawyer b-in-law of Sen. Lott DICK for a first name.
There are occassions when a trial lawyer is necessary, but, most often, it is the lawyer who is made whole… not the victim. Ramble on about how the free world owes the attorneys, blah, blah, blah. There are poor carriers and there are poor attorneys. I could go on and on and paint with a broad brush about plaintiff attorneys, but I know that would be painting just like you and I refuse to. It is amazing how I have been in claims for 25 years and I have attoneys call me for advice when they have a claim. I have been known to call a carrier on behalf of counsel or their friend, family member, etc… to resolve a pending issue with a claim. If I know that they are dealing with a carrier who is acting contrary to law or common decency, I recommend litigation! However, more times than not, the carrier is not screwing them, nor are they low balling, it is an interpretation of law and value or a misinterpretation of the contract… you know flood driven by wind should be a covered loss.
Let\’s agree to disagree, but you need to understand that WE did not select a career to screw the public, WE are good and decent people who work our a$$e$ off in an attempt to reach an amicable resolutiuon to some sort of catastrophe that has befallen someone, no matter how large, no matter how small. I LOVE what I do and I am damn good at it. I have had people who perpetrated a fraud prosecuted, filed complaints against attorneys, had adjusters arrested for defalcation, but I still get so much satisfaction by taking care of an insured by assisting, paying and educating. There are more of us out there with compassion, understanding, empathy and a zeal for our profession than you can imagine. Yeah, I guess I went off on a little tangent too, but it is painful to continually hear some attorney make disparaging remarks about ALL of us, when they only know about the exceptions, not the norm.
OK Insurer Executive! Time is past due to invest your money in your human resources and develop your peoples\’claims skills so claims are investigated and handled in accordance with established statutes, regulations, and case law. AND… let\’s not forget basic back to basics including people skills (effective listening, the development of the ability to display empathy and rapport and effective, concise, clear written and oral communication skills).
Remember who put the bread and butter on your dinner tables!
They fixed a claiments vehicle with out contact me or even trying to help me out. I am also going to issue a complaint to the DOI as I was not at fault for my accident and did not cause the damage to the other vehicle..
The problem is, Trent Lott didn\’t have flood insurance. And his trail lawyer is out for money, because we all know if he wins it\’ll have a devistating effect on the economy. It\’ll turn insurance into a social product. Which is what lawyers seem to not understand.
Calfarm: You ARE a homer. I am a consumer attorney. Farmers and Allstate are the 2 worst insurance companies to deal with on claims in the State of California. It really started getting bad about 6 yrs ago. It does not matter if I rep their insured or a third party. The service is bad, the offers are lowball forcing constant litigation and most of the adjusters have incredibly poor attitudes. This is just the tip of the iceberg with Farmers. If the public knew the real deal, Farmers would get no new business. I know some good long time adjusters and they can\’t stand it. Farmers is letting most of them go under the guise of downsizing but they are just illegally getting rid of the older, expensive employees. I interviewed 2 former Farmer attorneys for a position I had open. They had 18 and 15 yrs service with Farmers respectively. They both got the axe with a 2 week warning. Neither could say anything good about the direction Farmers was heading. Lookout Calfarm you could be next.
They can\’t even convince new agents to come on board. The press on this failed company is very bad in California. The employees won\’t say publically how bad it really is. They\’re down over 20% PIF in 2004-2005. Wonder if Marty is smoking a Cohiba and laughing right now. Lucky Marty.
WE HAVE WIND COVERAGE ON ALL FARMERS HOA\’S IN TEXAS. THAT IS A FACT! pROBLEMS WITHT THE TDI HAVE BEEN RESOLVED FOR MORE THAN A YEAR…IT MUST BE FEAR OF LOSING BUSINESS TALKING
give me a break lets look at some real facts 350 claims over a 4yr. period when farmers processes 2.75 million a yr just in ca. alone ask any farmers policy holder today about farmers 24/7 help point claims service when the majority of claims today are reported they are contacted by a claims adjuster within 4hrs of reporting there claim show me any other carrier that has that kind of claims service i am prood to be a farmers agent for over 50yrs.
I, AS YOU, ARE AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR. I CHOOSE TO WORK FOR FARMERS AS AN AGENT. I HAVE MET PEOPLE WHO DID NOT CARE ABOUT CUSTOMERS PERIOD. BUT I HAVE ALSO SEEN DRAMATIC CHANGE IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION. I WANT MAKE A SWEEPING JUDGEMENT OF YOU, BUT DOES CONSUMER=TRIAL ATTORNEY!
Chris, are you suggesting that anytime a carrier denies, that a clmt should initiate litigation? Do you realize there are a multitude of reasons a carrier might deny a claim, and they rarely involve malice or bad faith? Problem is, just like the case involving Trent Lott, people don\’t take the time to understand their policy, what it covers and what is excluded. I agree with everything Jim said in his follow-up. Sounds like we work for similar minded carriers who treat their policyholders with dignity and respect, and treat clmts the same way we treat our own insds. Chris, you see the insurance industry only through your own little warped tunnel. Please don\’t paint the entire industry the way you have. The reputable side of the business truly desires to help all customers recover and get back on their feet. For what it\’s worth, I feel Trent Lott should be ashamed of himself. He is an embarrassment to Mississippi and America, and has not awaken to what he might do to the Mississippi economy if he succeeds in making carriers pay for something that was never intended to be covered.
NO, Farmers\’ DOESN\”T write wind on ALL their Texas HO-A policies. They exclude it in the coastal counties and they won\’t even write a policy WITHOUT wind in Galveston. You must have blinders on.
Ok, everyone has 24/7 claim service today. That\’s nothing new. Farmers was probably one of the last companies to offer that. They\’re so proud of the things they do for their customers when everyone else has already done them. And they\’re completely ignorant of that fact. At State Farm you get to talk to an adjuster immediately, so, I\’d call them better. At Geico and Progressive\’s websites, you can actually do online quote and buys. Farmers is a little behind on that, too. And Allstate introduced a separate hurricane deductible in Texas 7 years and. Farmers\’ district managers are making it seem like they invented it on their new Texas Family policy.
They\’re behind on the curve, plain and simple. They respond to the market, not innovate the market.
Jim, is a perfect example of most claims people i deal with at Farmers: fair, honest, compassionate. 99% of claims people do not start out trying to screw a customer. some errors do occur,work within the system, ask for supervision, or even another adjuster. If you follow these steps Farmers pays, everytime, gladly!
If I ask for another adjuster don’t you think they will retaliate? I have no faith or trust in these adjusters.
I am a single mother and feel they are trying to take advantage, My adjuster is so mean and rude to
me I am even afraid to talk to him.
i write and have written farmers HOA policy in orange, jefferson, chambers counties. All are considered coastal counties, or tier 1. we will write in tier 1 counties, but not to the waters edge. Galveston obviously falls in that category.
Lets ask Melinda how Farmers handles claims. She and Farmers are the one that got the whole Texas market screwed up in the first place by causing so much publicity.
This thread began by speaking of the well deserved fines given to Farmers, one of the worst 3 carriers in the United States. I only went off on the trial atty tangent b/c one of the contributors attempted to disparage trial attorneys as a group. For too long trial attys have taken the barbs and done nothing about it while allowing the industry to paint an inaccurate picture as to how we fit in the picture. I have friends I have made over the last 20 yrs who are adjusters who, like you, do it right. Those folks are becoming fewer as a new generation takes over. If I offended you by trying to paint too broad of a brush, I apologize.
we write wind in coastal or tier 1 counties. today and tomorrow and the next day. state farm does not, and allstate probably want tomorrow. Foremost, a Farmers company, does write with wind exclusion.
I understand why you wrote what you wrote, as your field is disparaged as much, if not more, than mine. I have disparaged, both verbally and through the written word, the trial lawyers. However, it is truly only directed at the pond-scum within your industry. The attorney for Sen. Lott performed a great deed in piercing the veil of impunity under which the tobacco industry operated, only to throw it all away by suing for flood damages and attempting to cripple my industry.
I will now get off of my high-horse and leave you with one last thing. If you ever have an issue wherein you need some assistance in determining if a carrier is operating in bad faith, attempting to low ball, or just acting the fool, please feel free to e-mail me at \”romanite@adelphia.net\” I will be more than happy to assist.
I believe the comment from Nancy and I recognize many of the names I read here today and can agree that I have not yet heard anything good about Farmer\’s; how they treat thier agents. employees, insureds and claimants. The fines are probably the result of some good negotiation. Anything good I hear sounds like someone from Farmers, not someone independent. I work for a middle size carrier which prides itself on good claims service. NAIC market conduct reviews make it a no-brainer. As for trial attorneys, I don\’t think they are the bane of the insurance industry but a necessary part of it because not all carriers are on the level or act with integrity and instead watch the bottom line. We are in the business of PAYING losses, not lining our pockets. Bad carriers make trial attorneys necessary. Farmers gets what it deserves…where there\’s smoke, there\’s surely fire!
In recognition of all the long, hard work of Agents during their time of difficluty, Farmers will be announcing a significant increase in commissions for Agents. It is their Agents who keep the company in business through successful sales of policies and excellent client relations. Of course, every company recognizes that, but Farmers will be the first to willingly and adequately compensate their loyal agents.
Farmers New Century Insurance Company is named along with Allstate Insurance Company, Hartford, Liberty Mutual and 13 other insurers…for consumer fraud, and other intentionally illegal actions.
I NEVER KNEW WORKING FOR A COMPANY DISQUALIFIED YOU FROM ACCURATELY COMMENTING ON IT. I HAVE BEEN AN AGENT FOR THREE YEARS, IHAVE SEEN THE WORST AND NOW I AM SEEING THE BEST, IN TEXAS. COMPANIES ARE ALLOWED TO CHANGE. FALLING MARKET SHARE IS USUALLY A GOOD FACTOR IN CHANGE, AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPEN TO FARMERS. WE ARE NOT PERFECT, BUT YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. I WISH ALL OF YOU COULD SEE THE HARD WORK IN TEXAS, TAKING CARE OF CUSTOMERS AND EMPLOYEES. THINGS ARE BETTER HERE. THANKS
In my opinion, if coming into someone\’s home with an arrogant and dismissive attitude towards an insured client / Hurricane Rita loss claimant is considered \’great service\’, then Farmers gives excellent service.
On 12/19/05, I had a fire in my 3000 sq ft custom built home. There was actual fire and water damage to 800 sq ft, including my home office, master bedroom, master bath and 2 large walk in closets. The smoke damage throughout the rest of the house was extensive and Farmers approved and deem it neccessary to hire a fire & water restoration company to remove and clean all my household belongs at thier offsight facility. They took everything that was cleanable from \”beenie babies\” to the refrigerator. The resorations company\’s bill now stands at $55000.
I have hired a contractor with 20 years of experience in fire restoration to do the structral work. My contractor\’s estimate stands at $96000. Farmers assigned my claim to a \”newbie\” inexperienced adjuster. He has meet with my contractor and the estimate was gone through line by line. As of Friday, 1/27/06, my adjuster has approved only $44000 (up from the initial of $38000). On the adjuster\’s lastest…he failed to include little things such as a permit (required in Harris Co., TX) or got things totally wrong such as the windows to replace…he listed those a \”single hung\” when they are \”horizonal, storm window\”. Let me look at one room… my son\’s. Farmers agrees that the heat from the A/C vent damaged the ceiling to the extent that the ceil needs to be replaced, seeled and get 2 coats of paint. Farmers agrees that the 3 walls without wallpaper be cleaned, sealed and get 2 coats of paint. Farmers allows for the cleaning ONLY of the wallpapered wall, doors, doorfacing, baseboards and window skirt. Well, it just doesn\’t make common sense to me that if the ceiling needs to be replace and 3 of the 4 walls get \”clean, seal and paint\” treatment that the wallpaper and woodwork can be just cleaned.
With every letter attached to any and all communications with Farmers, I get reminded that Farmers has only approved my temporary housing through 3/29/05 and any additional must be approved in advance. Every letter, excused my contractor of causing delay in the repair of my home. Verbally, my adjuster has suggested that if my contractor can\’t do the job for what Farmers is willing to pay \”prehaps another contractor can\”. These letters and communications verge on intimadation, to say the least.
After carefully reveiwing the adjuster\’s last estimate, I called and spoke with his superior. I address a few of my concerns with him and he had, in fact, reveiwed the lastest estimate and it was in order. However, I brought it to attention that flooring has yet to be addressed by Farmers and is included in my contractor\’s estimate. I asked him to assign an adjuster to my claim with more experience that the current one…he refused stating \”your claim has been assigned to this office and that is where it is going to stay.\” I asked him what Farmers considers a \”large loss\” claim, he retorted, \”What do you consider a large loss?\” My response, \”Do not patronize me.\” He never answered the question. I know that my claim is being handle according to my adjuster as a \”mid loss\” claim. The supervisor suggested that the quickest way to resolve the difference between Farmers and my contractor would be the appraisal process. Then, he changed his tune and has agreed to personally come and meet with my contractor at my home to go over the estimate before going to appraisal. I am looking forward to the meeting….
One more comment….my agent: Not once has he called or contacted me with regard to the fire….even though he is being \”cc\”ed on all correspondence. Great service considering he has written the policies on 4 autos and 2 homes including the flood policies, and…lol…keeps trying to sale me life policies.
So, Carl…..will you answer the question, \”What does Farmers consider a \”large loss\”? At what dollar amount, should the claim be re-assigned from \”mid loss\” to \”large loss\”? You seem to be so pro-Farmers, surely you can answer the question.
I welcome, any and all, comments from all readers.
Just call me \”getting frustrated in Houston\”…..Djean
You are all freaking me out. I\’ve been a Farmer\’s agent for about 10 months. And I\’m female. I have a few thoughts on all the comments I read attached to the fine article.
1)Farmers was bought out by Zurich some 6 or 7 years ago, I believe, and I\’ve heard that the takeover has been hard on the company staff (CSRs, Claims Adjustors, etc) with all the typical crap that large takeovers have such as dumping the better payed, more experienced.
2) I thought I just heard that Farmers claims just got rated #1 by whoever it is that does that.
3) I can\’t tell if Zurich has good intentions or bad towards the operation of Farmers.
4) Insurance companies in general are like casinos, not like a govmt social program. By that I mean that the house has to make a profit or they go out of business. Both casinos and insurance cos hedge their bets– and the ins cos do that by restricting their coverages and geographical areas they cover. They can\’t cover all things for all people in all places without charging way more than anyone can or will pay without going bankrupt. So, like the one person said, agents need to educate their clients on what they\’re buying.
5) I was a claims adjustor for Nationwide in the mid 80s, and I worked pending claims which were claims left over from adjustors who quit or got fired. They were messes. Insureds who hadn\’t been contacted a year since the claim had been reported, quite a few fraudulent claims including a woman who had 6 slip and falls in malls w/i 1 yr. I also was an office mgr for a State Farm agent in the early 80s and saw insureds upset with their claims handling there as well. My point being that the policies: contracts are all pretty similar, but some claims adjustors are good (same w/their supervisors) and some aren\’t, and insureds don\’t know what they\’re covered for.
6) I\’ve spoken to other trial attorneys who have told me that Farmers was one of the better cos to deal with. So, I don\’t know what to believe about that issue.
7) Agent Treatment: I don\’t have anything to compare with on this. They sure make the agent pay for everything, but I\’ve heard that you have to have $50K to start up as a State Farm agent. I wasn\’t told what a financial drain starting an agency would be, and I had no small business background so I was completely naive about the whole thing. Thank God for the bank of Mom & Dad. And Farmer\’s training sucks.
One big benefit of being a Farmer\’s agent is Not Being Exclusive. But I still haven\’t found a brokerage firm that has their sh** together yet, either.
8) Comparing Farmers to AAA, Progressive, etc.: I\’ve heard from AAA writers that they get very poorly paid. I think that having an agent as opposed to a web-site or 800# is a huge asset for the insured. Farmers does train their agents to get to know their insureds and to try to make sure they (insured) are educated on what their buying and that they have the best coverage they can afford with the least possible gaps. I think that\’s a good thing for the insured. You don\’t get that without an agent, from what I\’ve seen. But it does take a good agent, and they aren\’t all good.
9) Last comment (thank God): I try to be a person of integrity and if I find that Farmers screws people, I\’ll quit. The corporate BS I\’m continually subjected to says no, but I\’ll make my own judgement on that. I can read a contract and the courts can interpret them and then the ins cos can rewrite them so they don\’t go broke. So, we\’ll see. I hope Farmers is trying to be a good company, and if not a corporate example or an innovator in the business, at least act at the level of the status quo good faith.
Too much to read, but #2 stood out…..NO WAY! I\’m sure you guys are #1 in claims in your own mind, but I don\’t think you\’re even in the top 10 by any reputable publications. Their overall claims service is worse than most sub-standard carriers. Djean summed it all up nicely in the post before yours. My advice to you, stayed involved in your customer\’s claims when necessary. While they don\’t like it, claim handlers will usually step it up when the agent becomes involved.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Consumer Reports rated Farmers Insurance \”Worst\”, see site below for details:
======================================= http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/
=======================================
Thanks, I haven\’t gotten to that step but haven\’t forgotten it as an option either. Tomorrow morning is the big day…meeting at my burnt home with adjuster, his supervisor, my Farmers agent and my contractor….we\’ll see how it goes. I spent an hour with my agent (of course, I went to him not the other way around). He seemed to think I was right on serveral points, asked to be at the meeting….what the heck the more the merry…at least he understood the difference between a \”single hung\” and \”double, horizonal hung, storm window\”…small step for mankind (or at least my claim). I think I\’ll ask if anyone objects to my taping the whole thing..lol. Wish me luck.
chris, try going to yahoo and typing in (insurance company) claims, you will be amazed. there are pages upon page about state farm, and pages and pages about allstate, and a few pages about farmers. you can find disgruntled people with any companies claims. that whole jd power thing has got to be eating you up. to think Farmers customers are actually satisfied.
djean, i will be happy to help with your claim. i will in clude my email address, if you email your policy number or name and phone number I will go to work for you tomorrow. chatch@farmersagent.com
New Farmers agent: Quit now! The Zurich takeover turned Farmers from a decent carrier to one of the worst three along with Allstate and Mercury here in California. I can give you a long list of adjusters and attorneys who were in the long time employ of Farmers who have been unceremoniously fired in the last 18 months while other younger (read cheaper) employees are taking their place. Not one former employee has anything good to say about the company and these are people who have been with Farmers for 15-20 years. Horrible Insurance Company that does screw its insureds, third party claimants and its own employees.
I would like to say, that your points are true to fact. Insurance is like gambleing and they have to make money. I work for Farmers at the HelpPoint and I hear all sides. I will say that we do have a problem with settling claims. But over the last few years it has gotten better. It was JD Power and Associates that just rated Farmers. So yes Farmers does have a very good rating. Please you everyone has to look at population in CA vs the rest of the CA. CA is famerms home state, Farmers writes alot of business there Texas being the 2nd biggest state, but it writes busines in about 45 other states too. Zurich does not control Farmers. Zurich lets Farmers do it\’s own thing, Like Zurich does with its other 200 companies. People need to relize that here in MO other BIG named Insurances like State Farm and Allstate get violations. I just something in the mail about my Liberty Mutual getting introuble with compliance laws. IT\”S NOT JUST FARMERS>>>> ITS EVERY INSURANCE COMPANY IN AMERICA!!!!!!
I have been a Farmers Agent for 18 years.I am giving my notice.I took care of a client that was in an accident.He has been with me for over 15 years.He came into my office and when he left he pointed to me and said \”YOU are the ONLY good thing about Farmers\”.Too bad I hear this too often and it is time to leave.
I have been a Farmers Agent for 18 years.I am giving my notice.I took care of a client that was in an accident.He has been with me for over 15 years.He came into my office and when he left he pointed to me and said \”YOU are the ONLY good thing about Farmers\”.Too bad I hear this too often and it is time to leave.
In response to j.j, you are in denial about Farmers. They are not like any other carrier, they are substantially worse. Only 2 carriers have websites devoted to how poorly claims are handled, Allstate and Farmers, which are 2 of the 3 worst carriers here in California.
It\’s so sad that one of America\’s greatest business stories has come to this. One of the previous comments was right – it\’s just a numbers company now… dividends to the mother ship in another country etc…are the objective.
This only happens where there is an elected insurance commissioner. It\’s all politics, and the insurance industry is an easy target. It\’s just a place from which a wannabee politition can generate a lot of noise from as he moves up the political mountain. Problem is, he leaves a taint on all of us in the industry in the process.
File a complaint with your state\’s insurance bureau. — this always makes claims managers grit their teeth!
Settling a large homeowners claim in a fair manner is a complicated matter for any company or adjustor – but they shouldn\’t be treating you miserably during the process if you are practicing what I believe they call \”due diligence\”
Once they get rid of their top-heavy \”sales\” managers and \”district\” managers, and once they go back and remember the old founders Tom Leavey and John Tyler, and how they started the company: by helping people. Today\’s bloated company has \”district\” managers grinding down agents and \”sales\” managers selling high-priced products that fewer and fewer people need. The press in California alone has driven them from third place down to eighth. The suits are so busy covering their own butts, they forgot who was paying the bills……and salaries. The founders are rotating in their graves.
The number of claims is the tip of the iceberg. The Dept. has a policy of not accepting complaints from individuals who have counsel. Its a horrible company. I deal with it daily. Read my prior posts on what it has done to long time adjusters and house counsel here in California.
And that is why they were just fined 1 million dollars because they give such fine service. Calfarm, you are in denial. Farmers continues to be one of the worst 3 carriers here in California. Maybe one day when they fire you for no good reason as they have a bunch of good folks out here, you will see the light. You can take a snipe at attorneys all you want, it still does take away from the fact you work for a horrible company. Your rationalization as to why you work for such a bad company is something you\’ll have to figure out.
I miss those days of competitive priced products, great claims service & decent agents. That\’s why after 14yrs I left and only wish them the best. I liken them now to the big oil companies posting huge profits & alienating the customer base.
\”Good timing,\” is what the old Farmers agents tell me now. Been independent for three years and made sure I left with about one-third of MY customers. No more DM hollering about lackluster sales (he still wonders why no new agents apply to Farmers) and no more weekly meetings where the topic is ALWAYS life insurance. The company has rotted from the top down. Just ask the drones in the service centers. They can smell it. My new hot carrier? Drive by Progressive. That company loves it\’s agents. Farmers could learn a lot from Progressive. What are they, up another 23% this year?
Come on people…..350 claims over a 3 year period & the complants were regarding delays is meaningless. Farmers gets that more than that many claims a day. Any companies name could have been pulled from the hat & their record would be pretty bad also.
\”The action covered approximately 1,000 violations of the California Insurance Code and Fair Claims Regulations covering the period from Jan. 2, 2002, through Aug. 8, 2004.\”
Let\’s not gloss it over folks. That\’s one verified consumer complaint per day. Garamendi said it best, \”Farmers sucks.\”
Here in MI a new FIG agent in a large outstate town was told, by a body shop owner, about 10 years ago \”Bar none, FIG is the best insurance company there is to deal with\” 8 years later he was told by the same owner that they were the absolute worst
If they didn\’t have a problem with claims why did they take all the adjustors to LA and tell them \”we do not want to pay a penny more or a penny less than we have to\”
this was back around 2000-2001. They went from overpaying on claims to not paying fairly or at a minimum making it such a hassle the customer would be upset. I hope they stay in business cus I still have a life policy with them!
I am down in Rita territory, and writing new homeowners with Farmers everyday. I don\’t know what all the fuss is about in California, but Farmers reputation from the claims handling here is excellent above any other company. I am writing policies from allstate, statefarm, ect.. Peaple here now know what an excellent company Farmers is, and you get what you pay for. Many people with other companies are still waiting on their first adjuster. Allstate is runing comercials stating they will get to everyone as soon as they can. So all you Farmers wana be\’s and former Farmers agent regreters keep your false statements to yourselves. Ask anyone in Southeast Texas which company is the best and your going to hear FARMERS!!!
Same here in New Mexico, Farmers Insurance reputation is good. By the way regarding an earlier comment, Farmers top Life producer for 2005 is from NM & is a female. We also have the top Fire producer for 2005. Sounds like CA needs to get their act together and quit dragging the good states down.
I\’ve heard more bad things than good here in Texas about Farmers. I\’m glad you guys handled all your Rita claims timely. It must be easy after you caused the Texas home market to collapse after botching Melinda Ballard\’s claim, then losing nearly 40% of your home customers. You\’re blind to the rest of the market, and if you worked outside of Farmers you\’d know that.
Besides, you go ahead and write those policies all day long. That\’s what got Farmers in trouble with the mold fiasco in the first place, the inabiltiy to manage the high risk you had. And, the FYI, Farmers rates in Texas aren\’t that good, especially for older homes, and your new \”power deductibles\” are a joke. Lets tell people we\’re cheaper but just give them a higher deductible. Nice job.
Farmers reputation from the claims handling is TERRIBLE in TEXAS! It is the WORST!! The public is just not aware of it and apparently neither are you. For instance take a look at the Texas 2004 Homeowners Complaint Index
2004 Homeowners Complaint Index http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/consumer/cphomeci.html
Farmer Insurance (combining its subsidiaries Farmers Insurance Exchange and Fire Insurance Exchange) has the MOST JUSTIFIED COMPLAINTS (114+95=209). The Complaint Index for each of those respectively are 2.78 and 1.87. Anything above 1.00 means more complaints than average. Of the three companies with the most justified complaints. Farmers Insurance has the WORST Complaint Index.
what amazes me is you love to talk about the negative but you guys fail to mention the positive. You failed to mention the 2005 complaint numbers,probably because they were 1/3 of the amount we had in 2004. that was with a major hurricane damage, and 10 times the claims handled in 90 days. the complaints went down 2/3. nobody is perfect…our customer\’s recognize the commitment to resolve their claims quickly and fairly.
Can\’t remember the woman\’s name in Washington- Mary Muclahy?-anyway, Farmers treated her so fairly she wound up suing Farmers and fighting the case HERSELF and she won a $450,000 judgement against them. This was last October or November. Ask the Farmers agents in Washington how that went for them in the press. Ick.
Its been a couple of days since I wrote the e-mail on the 1st. Sorry I did not respond sooner, I\’ve been to busy writing homeowners policies. Getting Farmers back where it belongs is happening and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Complaint ratio\’s, Ballard\’s, whatever. All people know is Farmers Customers have money in hand, and others continue to wait or have been denied. If Farmers is such a bad company, then why did we issue ale checks without looking at the home to see if it was livable. Bad companies don\’t make decisions like that. Bad companies refuse to pay even when ordered to by regulatory entities. Yea allstate won in court in not paying the ale, but was it a good decision from a marketing stantpoint? Was it the right thing to due to their customers who could not get back home and where running out of money? They have been told for year they are in good hands. Is this allstate\’s stance? Every policy I take from them and others gives me the answer to these questions. If your not with Farmers then of course your not going to agree with me, but I do have the ability to recognize the good in other companies decisions when good decisions are made.
As a body shop here in Ohio I thought it was quite insulting when a woman from \”Farmers Insurance\” named Marie wanted my business for their commercial insurance for my shop. She said and I quote: if you change your insurance with us we will put you on our \”Preferred List\” as a vender. I thought to my self how lame can this be? I was insulted as a shop owner as to their method of trying to drum up business Oh, and by the way it seemed after she disscussed this with me she said I had to include our personal policy as well to get on the preferred list. Isn\’t this a crime, a bribe?
I think that everyone should walk a mile in everyone shoes and then stand in judgement. I have never heard no many negative, judgemental unhappy people in one place. If we all just do our job to the best of our ability we won\’t have the time to throw stones.
Wow just looking for a Farmers Group address (not mine) and came across this site. Amazing all the negativity here. I live in CA and have been covered by Farmers for the last 25 yrs. Both house and 3 cars. I have yet to have had a problem with them. 10 yrs ago we had a fire that did 60,000 damage (probably 150,000. at rates now) I was treated both fairly and professionally. They came right out moved us to the Residence Inn and rented us 2 suites that were about 100.00 a night for over 30 days then paid rent on a rental house for 6 months while our home was being rebuilt. Took all our belongings and had them professionally cleaned.Which cost over 50,000 alone. I was shocked when I saw the itemized sheet the cleaner delivered!! You are all entitled to your opinion, just as I am and I wanted to let people know that there are good in the Farmers Group. I for one won\’t be changing soon. I am not an agent, lawyer or involved in the insurance business at all. Just a satisfied customer
Ellyn: This thread was inititated by Farmers being fined 1 miiion dollars here in California for unfair claims practices. The Farmers we have in California is a horrible insurance company. It is horrible to its unsureds, third parties, its own employees and other insurance companies as is discussed in the preceding posts. When an insurance company is that bad, it deserves every stone that is thrown. In fact, those employees in the industry that handle claims fairly have an obligation to throw the stones so the behavior changes. One bad apple does spoil the barrel. Hopefully, this million dollar fine begins to get Farmers\’ attention. Farmers once was a good insurance company. At least here in California, it is no longer.
The Texas Department of Insurance Complaint Information for 2004 proves Farmers Insurance has the MOST JUSTIFIED COMPLAINTS!! (as stated in an earlier post) This is the latest data that is available on their web site: http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/consumer/cpportal.html
The 2005 complaint numbers you are referring to must be fiction; otherwise we expect to see a post of the URL of these 2005 complaint numbers. If you prefer not to post the complaint information then we will just assume you made those up, which is probably the case.
Farmers Insurance is the WORST or one of the WORST insurance companies around. Farmers Insurance is spiraling down out of control. On the one hand it pressures its State Offices, District Managers and Agents to SELL, SELL, SELL then on the other hand it gives incentives to its Adjusters to DENY CLAIM, LOW BALL, DENY CLAIM, LOWBALL. I don’t know how Farmers Insurance agents sleep at night after selling policies to people knowing full well how they are going to be treated when they file a claim. I don’t know how Adjusters sleep at night after low-balling insured and third parties. Farmers Insurance’s demise is at its own peril! The negative messages you see on this board are the cause of its own actions by mistreating its District Managers, Agents and Customers etc. Farmers Insurance is a bad faith low balling company. The crap they sell as insurance should actually be called “false sense of security”. Customers feel and think they are insured, but when a claim is filed, Farmers Insurance uses all its power and resources to lowball or deny the claim. Ethel Adam’s said it correctly when she stated, “\”This is everybody’s worst nightmare. You know you have insurance — you’ve paid for it — and you’ve got these massive injuries. Then to be told, ‘No, you don’t have coverage,’ it was like someone punched me in the stomach. It makes you physically ill.\”
The truth of it is the public, customers, agents and employees are starting to actually wake up to the fact of how they are being treated by Farmers Insurance. Farmers Insurance is ruining peoples lives on its path to profitability. Lives both inside and outside of the company. This WILL catch up to them sooner or later unless things change.
\”give me a break lets look at some real facts 350 claims over a 4yr. period when farmers processes 2.75 million a yr just in ca. alone ask any farmers policy holder today about farmers 24/7 help point claims service when the majority of claims today are reported they are contacted by a claims adjuster within 4hrs of reporting there claim show me any other carrier that has that kind of claims service i am prood to be a farmers agent for over 50yrs.\”
Can\’t spell. No punctuation. Would you buy from this guy?
They need to look at Farmers claims in other states. Im dealing with a claim now where a policyholder of Farmers was at fault in a multiple car wreck in NC. There were 5 witnesses. Farmers has drug their feet paying the medical bills; its been almost 8 months now and they have paid nothing. Im now having problems getting the adjuster to even take or return my phone calls. Lawyers wont take it because the personal injuries were not severe. The NC Insurance Commissioners office has advised me to fine a formal complaint. But I want the bills paid now and I also want to get reinbursed for out of pocket expenses and lost wages. Anybody outside of CA having this type of problem??
\”John Hageman, Mark Toohey and Kevin Kelso all called me about this claim and wanted Mr. Nixon to be a friend of Farmers in the legislative session. Each one strongly suggested that an additional payment would be very helpful to the cause.\”
E-mail from Jim Daues (Vice President for Property Claims) to Adjuster Isabel Arnold in regards to Nixon’s (tort reform legislator) claim
Everyone on this board needs a life, hobby, something! I have had Farmers for 17 years and have been pleased. I work in an industry that deals with insurance companies on a daily basis and have always found them pleasant and professional. Those on here crying that there claim was not paid, read your policy. The attorney *****ing and moaning – what your commission check not high enough because you could not inflate an injury? THOSE THAT ***** ON HERE ARE LOSERS, plain and simple
So your experience with Farmers was great. You are an exception. In California, Farmers is known as a company who drags their policyholders in and out of court. They\’ve fallen hard and fast in California. DOI Chief Garamendi thinks they suck too.
It is a sad state of affairs with Farmers in California, the core products, particularly homeowners are simply not remotely competitive from a pricing standpoint not to mention when the dwelling limits are above 1,000,000 they will not even offer extended replacement cost coverage. Claims is poor, claims adjusters are bitter and the company feels the policy run off is due to agents? You just have to laugh or you would be bitter.
The hope is that Farmers persists with its insideous conduct here in California and it goes the way of the dinosaur. A company like that is a plague upon consumers and our society in general (and the Industry) and deserves to die off. As to those who currently are still enamored with Farmers, your day will come, Farmers will eventually screw you as well. When it does, you will look back on this chat site and say to yourself \”Geez if everybody is saying the same thing maybe next time I\’ll listen\” (even if you think the people giving you the advice are losers–as the earlier post indicated.)
Farmers has high homeowners prices in CA because they are one of 2 insurance companies that will insure homes in wildfire areas. That\’s where I sell H/Os for Farmers. State Farm won\’t sell, AAA won\’t sell, Allied non-renewed all its policies here, and on and on. If you\’re going to insure the areas prone to catastrophe you have to bring in enough premium to pay for the catastrophes.
As for consumer complaints, what percentage of those who complained had read their policy and knew what they bought? They\’re contracts! Doesn\’t anyone complain after their divorce about the terms of their pre-nup? I think they probably do, but Consumer Reports isn\’t doing a survey on them, are they.
It seems funny to me that all of you in the business complain about taking in premiums and paying less in claims when I know every one of you sells policies on the basis of a company\’s AM Best rating: which stands for— how much money the ins co has in the bank.
You sound like a bunch of socialists. Contract not fulfilled by both parties? Go to court.
What was consumer reports sample size? Why is everything on your site several years old? Why did the mayor of Beaumont TX state \”Farmers has done more for this city and state than anyone else\” after the hurricanes? Whyd did J.D. Power and associates give them their stamp of approval? Maybe it is because they do good things and assist others.
To the follow who said I will get screwed in the future, NO, I wont. I am knowledgeable enough to read and understand what a policy covers. I am smart enough to know if I need more coverage. I am intelligent enough to understand there are reasons why not everyone can be pleased after an accident. I am sure you will flame me for my thoughts, but that is fine as this is a \”gripe site.\” I just found it humerous that a group of people, who are obviously confused, complain about something it appears they have no understanding of in the first place. The majority of complaints are \”I did not get a rental car the day of the wreck,\” \”My car is not fixed yet\” or \”they low balled me on my injuries.\” PEOPLE, this is why you have insurance. If Farmers is not or was not your carrier, you have no room to complain, call your own company. Your policy states you must contact your insurance company after an accident and notify them. This is the reason you pay a premium, for protection. NO INSURANCE COMPANY will pay for repairs of a vehicle or a rental vehicle until liability is determined. Would you want your carrier to pay for someone else\’s damages if you did not think you were at fault? NO, you would want them to complete an investigation. Again, this is why you have insurance. If you are insured with Farmers and you were wronged you have a justified complaint and I would encourage you to speak out about it. I get the feeling half the people on this site, and the one about Allstate, and the one about State Farm, Progressive, Geico, and American Family are not insured with those companies. They are mad because they want them to pay for a benefit they have not paid premium for with investigating what happened. Just my own observation.
I apologize to those who have true complaints, I would encourage you to take the necessary steps to get them resolved! To everyone else, grow up and get a life. To the \”Webmaster\” I am not frustrated, I am actually amused with how one alter, change, and dress up a fact to for their own benefit. I hope you win an award for your site, it is clear you spent a lot of time on it….to bad the majority of it is fiction or quoted from people who provide you with half truths.
I hope you all have a nice day and I am sorry for the long response
E: Remember this thread started because of the article that confirmed Farmers just got fined $1,000,000 here in California for unfair claims practices involving ITS INSUREDS. Farmers is a horrible insurance company, at least as to how it handles claims in the State of California. It used to be a good carrier but alas no longer.
Farmers does have a good home product and no company anymore will roll the dice on homeowners underwriting. Farmers AM Best rating has been up and down.
Farmers was a good company…I think when the world got expensive and complicated they lagged behind…and then panicked. WHen they panicked they ruined lots of agents\’ lifes because they did not care whether the agents survived or not The company appeared to look the other way for
certain agents.
When the agents protested these changes they were told to get 6/63 and sell life insurance, shut down your office for a day and call everyone in your book for retention but don\’t open the door if they happen to walk in that day etc..
I wish you the best in your career and hope the company has got their stuff together so you can pay your mortgage and feed your family.
The fine is from California DOI. The violations occurred in California. The poor policyholders who complained are in California. The Company acknowledged the fine, just as they acknowledged their illegal treatment of their own employees (that case cost Farmers $40 million and tons of bad presshere in California). The Farmers agents in Texas have so quickly forgotten the mold litigation in their state that caused Farmers to lose another legal judgement and then withdraw from the Texas market. Yeah, Farmers is looking out for you. Farmers technology (Dashboard aka \”Trashboard\”) is an industry joke. Good luck at your next DM meeting. Keep those life apps coming.
I WAS AN ADJUSTER FOR 20 YEARS; FOR THE LAST 23.5 YEARS AN ATTORNEY. I PRESENTLY HAVE CLIENTS WITH A UM CLAIM. FOR 1 THE OFFERED $800, $1,600 & $3,OOO FOR THE OTHER 2 THEY DENIED THEIR CLAIMS. WE DISCOVERED THE RESPONAIBLE PARTY DID HAVE INSURANCE. WE SETTLED WITH THEIR CARRIER FOR $15,OOO FOR ONE CLIENT, $10,OOO FOR A SECOND CLIENT & $5,000 FOR THE OTHER WITHIN 1 WEEK. NOW WE ARE GOING TO SUE THE FARMERS INSURANCE GROUP FOR 1/10th OF 1% OF THEIR TOTAL ASSETS.
So what did a trial lawyer do to you that has you so upset? By the way did you know that two anti-Trial Lawyer Senators, Sen. Lott from La. and Sen. Santorum from Penn.just hired trial lawyers for Lott\’s insurance claim regarding Katrina and Santorum\’s wife\’s claim for chiropractic malpractice? (His wife is asking for $500,000 even though he is pushing national legislation capping it at $250,000–he rationalizes it by saying he has seen her suffering–fairly hypocritical but I digress) I guess when you need to fight an insurance company you need a trial attorney. So what did a trial attorney specifically do to you to get you so upset or are you just listening to the Industry propaganda?
Acknowledge, yes it appears they did – unlike the other carriers who paid fines for the same type of instances. CA DOI runs these types of inquiries yearly on ALL carries, it is a way to increase there budget. This is nothing new to the Mercury, progressive, Safeco, etc….
They acknowledged the bad treatment of their employees? Are you aware of what the case entailed? If not, let me help you out a minute. The case was over changing claims adjusters (ALL CLAIMS ADJUSTERS IN THE STATE) from salaried to hourly employees, the same as lets say a mill worker. This means they now have to work on time cards, which if you ever had to do this sucks. Those few employees caused an entire state to degrade the status of a profession. I would much rather work on a salary, pick my hours – have the ability to help customers when I wanted, and not be a on a time clock.
I guess now would be a good time to share information about myself. I am an independent adjuster who was worked with every major insurance company in this country. I hold licenses in every state and have seen how every insurance company operates in every part of the country. I would say, with the utmost certainty that Farmers is one of the better companies to have a claim with. If you would like justification read up on the recent tragedy on the Gulf Coast (I know because I was there for 120 days working for a different carrier that was providing lack luster service). Is Farmers disputing flood damage vs. wind damage like the other major carriers, NO. Were they the first in the area, YES. Did there adjusters weather the storm so they could deploy immediately, yes! Did the other carriers no, they arrived several days later. I am sure some on hear will say or think \”He is a corporate mouth piece for the insurance industry\” \”He has been brain washed to screw the people.\” No I wold beg to differ, I go out of my way to ensure people understand there coverage, policy, and settlement. Why because I care and truly want to see people get what they are entitled too. However, I do not like to see people complain because they were not put in a better situation then they were prior to the loss. You have coverage to place you back to your current status, not elevate you. Hell, as an IA I would benefit my giving you more money as I am paid on the amount of claims I settle (i.e., the bigger the check that I write the bigger the pay check I receive).
Finally, I will address the issue with TX Mold. Farmers did what the other carriers were about to do, pull out if the circumstances did not change. Prior to the new legislation insurance carriers were spending 20-50 cents more on every dollar in premium than they were collecting on Homeowners claims because of MOLD. If you have ever been to TX you know it is humid and everything will mold with time without proper care. How can ANY company stay in business when you spend that much more money than you take in? You cannot, it is impossible. The TX DOI realized they could not fund the state insurance with the current policy because they knew it was a loser. They, along with other insurance carriers, drafted a policy that would provide adequate coverage and in most cases reduced customers premium. The entire state of TX was being penalized by MOLD claims in there pocket books. Insuring for Mold in TX was like insuring against termites, if you do not do something to prevent it (humidifier) it would destroy home/property.
You say, “Those few employees caused an entire state to degrade the status of a profession.” That’s a load of crap! Farmers Insurance is ruining people’s lives! Anyone and everyone who comes into contact with Farmers from employees, agents, adjusters and its customers are all complaining. I just received an email within the last week from an overworked Farmers Insurance adjuster. You can see it here: http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45
“Work on a salary and pick your hours?” Ha! You don’t pick your hours when you have 12 or 14 hours of work to do in a day. The adjusters took a stand and won! They are now paid overtime; this is GOOD for the employee. You can try and twist the words and situation, but when all is said and done, Farmers Insurance lost and on top of that \”Judge Jones further found that Farmer’s actions were willful and were not taken in good faith\”. Farmers Insurance Adjusters want to unionize, but Farmers Insurance won’t let them, so they can continue screwing them. Sounds a lot like Wal-Mart without all the publicity.
You say, “I would say, with the utmost certainty that Farmers is one of the better companies to have a claim with”. You are on another World! Farmers Insurance is the WORST to have a claim with!! I say that from first hand experience! Just ask Barbara Martin, Ethel Adams and the hundreds (if not thousands) of other victims who have to contact their State Insurance Commissioner because Farmers Insurance screwed them on a claim. Farmers Insurance is a low-balling, claim denying bad faith insurer.
Webmaster, I am starting to see a common thread here – all these sites that are about Farmers are hosted /run by you to promote your site! How many different names on here are you? How many sites have you pimped your site on now? Is there an insurance company in America you like? I would like to know what alternative solution you have?
I think these are all run by a little man with a complex, you are probably hidding guns, food, and God knows what else in your basement because \”they\” are watching.
Did it ever occur to the adjuster who wrote you because they have Soo much going on is not organized and that is why they cannot get all of there work done? Did it ever occur to you they are lazy and should not work in the industry in the first place? Just a thought! You say this is good for the industry, do you work in it? I think I saw on your site somewhere that you are a computer programmer? How can you say what is good for employees of a particular line of business when you do not belong to it?
You say Farmers will not let them unionize? Last time I checked a company cannot keep employees from unionizing. How would you propose they are doing this? If people want to unionize they can and it is illegal for a company to stop them. Is this more propaganda?
I will not respond to any more comments as you will continue to believe what you believe and I will as well. I just do not understand how you comment on such a wide variety of information, with no background besides your claim and random emails you receive. By reading your site and the responses I have encountered you take everything presented to you on full face value, like an employee who emails and you tells you they have to much work, and then apply that to an entire company / line of business. Seams like a stretch to me.
You say, “Is there an insurance company in America you like? I would like to know what alternative solution you have?” If you had a brain and actually visited the web site you would see on the front page (if you scroll down a bit) I have a list of “Alternatives to Farmers Insurance”, but since you don’t have a brain I guess you missed it. http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/
You say, “You say this is good for the industry, do you work in it? I think I saw on your site somewhere that you are a computer programmer? How can you say what is good for employees of a particular line of business when you do not belong to it?” I hear it from employees of Farmers Insurance that’s how and observations. Do I have to be a Wal-mart employee to know that their employees need to unionize? It’s obvious. As obvious as I know that Farmers Insurance Sucks!
You say, “You say Farmers will not let them unionize? Last time I checked a company cannot keep employees from unionizing. How would you propose they are doing this? If people want to unionize they can and it is illegal for a company to stop them. Is this more propaganda?” What planet you living on?! Lets tell this “propaganda” to Wal-mart employees, “you all can unionize and Wal-mart can’t stop you!”, they will all laugh in your face! It may be illegal but companies have a way around that or we would not have a “union” issue at Wal-mart or Farmers Insurance.
You say, “I will not respond to any more comments as you will continue to believe what you believe and I will as well. ” Ah..great! You don’t have much to say anyway and what you do say you can\’t seem to back up. Farmers Insurance is a Bad Faith, Low-Balling, Claim Denying company. Farmers Insurance is the WORST company to have a claim with. I say this from EXPERIENCE. I had a claim with them.
Great! Now we have a PI lawyer spouting off about who knows what. Please crawl back under the rock from which you came. Hope Farmers ties you up in court for years. I\’m not a fan of Farmers, but I HATE PI attorneys more.
Farmers sucks, IS WHAT YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND. I was with Farmers for 22 years. I\’m still involved in claims; I work for a law firm on the plaintiff side.
All Farmers adjusters are now data entry imputers and nothing more. The turn over is rampant, around the country. All companies are seeing huge turnover. How the companies can afford this and try so many cases with or without house counsel is beyond me. Farmers turn over rate in WA State is unbelievable! 1 office I know of turned over 60% in 6 mo. That is a fact!
Why pay Millions for Colossus?
Why pay millions to house or outside counsel?
Why pay so much to train and then have the CR quit?
DE Novo everything just like Allstate?
Who is leading this Allstate? Hey All Fall in lock step w Allstate\’s business plan?
Well, I quit!
I\’m much more happy now. I\’ll be happier when Farmers and Allstate get what they deserve. Do you realize that Allstate routinely denies benefits under PIP? That they have changed their policy (unilaterally) to force insured’s to make their claims through litigation rather than an arbitration? They step into the shoes of the UM and defend the case (at great expense to their own insured’s). They just lay their largess against their own policy payers, and adopt a philosophy that the small firms don\’t have the resources to fight them. The house counsel hammers them (their own premium payers) into submission
Delay, delay, delay. I recently had a preemptive off on a cliam. I said ,\”How do you know what the claim is worth, we haved sent a demand?\” Turns out she evaluated the claim on the PIP info and IME\’s which should have been protected but not SAFECO.
The pendulem will swing. We\’re seeing more outside cousel refuseing to take files and are seeing turnover in the house counsel firms. Meantime, we wait for a big firm to take them to the table with Unfair pratices and bad faith.
What do you know anyway? Brian Murphy and Nancy what\’s her name are screwing the co. up. Nancy decided that the reserves were to low on PD and MD clams so she upped the amount reservered for those claims, leaving a lot less $ for BI claim reserves. So, now the adjuster has to jump through hoops just to put an appropriate reserve on a case. MASSIVE PAPAER WORK for a simple adjustment. STUPID
I realize I stated I would not respond to any more post but I just cannot resist. Webmaster, you are a song and dance machine, it is actually very funny.
You list alternatives on your website, but I see you slinging your propaganda on those as well. So what is it? Are they convienant choices when you want them to be?
You do not have to work in the industry, because employees tell you about it? ONCE AGAIN, BECAUSE YOU APPEAR TO BE SOMEWHAT SLOW, DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THEY WERE WORTHLESS EMPLOYEES OF THE INDUSTRY TO START WITH! Here is a thought, is it possible you make up stories and emails and then post them on your website as truth? I would bet so!
I cannot back up what I say? I WORK IN THE INDUSTRY. I have worked for FARMERS, STATE FARM, PROGRESSIVE, ALLSTATE, AAA, AMERICAN FAMILY, USAA, SAFECO, and MERCURY all across the country (which includes CA). I have first hand experience, which anyone with a BRAIN, would realize I am a little more experienced on the subject than a computer programmer with a complex.
You say you know from first hand experience, because you had a claim? Please share – first party, third party? Did they not pay for your trailer?
I will end my post with this: I AM MORE QUALIFIED THAN YOU TO SPEAK ON THE SUBJECT. I SPEAK MORE TRUTH THAN YOU CAN DREAM OF (BECAUSE MINE IS TRUTH AND YOURS IS PROPAGANDA). I do no have a Brain, a heart, and common sense to know your site (and all of your sites) are smoke and mirrors, nothing more.
I would say have a good weekend, but I am pretty sure you are not a happy person so I find it hard to believe you could accomplish this.
I\’m not angry Chris, I\’m actually a very happy person. I just don\’t like them. And let me clarify. I don\’t like the ambulance chasing kind like Harry Gaunt. I\’ve been in the business almost 30 years, 15 of which I spent handling Auto BI claims in a very large venue, and it tends to warp your attitude after a while. I have a lot of friends who are legit BI attys who do a great job and service for their clients. It\’s just for every legit BI atty, there\’s probably 10 scum bags.
I am aware of what Mr. Lott is trying to do through that Billy Bob lawyer of his. It\’s a joke. I had posted previously in another article that Lott should be ashamed of himself. He\’s an embarrassment to the State of Mississippi. I wasn\’t aware of Santorum\’s claim. What a joke!
DD its not a joke that Santorum and Lott retained attorneys but it highlights the lengths you have to go to get some semblence of justice while making most insurance claims. It is hard for me to believe that you have many friends who are BI attorneys yet still hate Trial Attorneys. Your experience has jaded you and not for the better. If all you hear all day long for 15 years is attorneys are bad, it is hard to ignore that propaganda. It is the chicken and egg theory: If Insurance companies were fair to claimants and paid them fair value for their claims, I would be out of a job. It will never happen though because carriers, like Farmers who was fined a measly 1 million dollars for claims practices that most reasonable people would find abhorent, will never change their nickle and dime mentality, which causes even anti trial atty politicians such as Lott and Santorum to each retain a trial attorney. In most professions you will find 10% of its members \”bad apples\”. Its no different with trial attorneys. However, to make a blanket statement that you hate all trial attorneys is not based on facts but emotions flamed by an Industry that does not like trial attys who hold their feet to the fire to pay claims in a reasonable and fair fashion. Can you imagine not having any checks and balances on the Insurance Industry? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Ours would be a scary country without trial attorneys. Whether you would admit that or not depends on how jaded you have become. In regards to Farmers, I have handled claims with over 200 carriers here in California and it is clear that Farmers is in the top 3 of bad carriers regarding claims. Most good attorneys here in California would agree with that assessment.
Its obvious you have some deep problem with Farmers with all your websites ect…
Was your mold claim denied? You go ahead and stay with your current carrier until you have a claim. In the meantime find a new hobby, besides stewing over Farmers.
Re: Farmers Insurance Group et alia (Zurich?). I can testify to problems with claim adjustors;they dealt,in bad faith, misrepresenting,delaying,threatening and reducing my sister to tears when they demanded (not requested) that she accede to their evaluations of the value of her car and the possible cost of repairs. I was helping her to get the car repaired (it had suffered purely external damage due to a fender-bender for which she held no responsiblity.) If you replaced the front light the car would be entirely street-legal. The rear fender and the front fender were pushed in, but no other operational damage at all. The adjustors claim that since the estimate of repair costs is more than half the estimated value (by their valuation both times) the car qualifies as wreck which they will auction off. The other party was uninsured, making the company liable to pay for all of repairs, etc. The key to the pressure is the company\’s use of the category \’wreck\’ (entirely a financial figment of corporate policy) to effectively prevent the insuree from getting her car back and the repairs done. Their threat to classify a \’wreck\’ will make re-registration necessary (more expense to my sister!) As it stands she will not get her car back whether she agrees or not; she will lose all value in the car and you can imagine what her insurance rates will look like. The agents are using every device, pressure and not too transparent financial threat to force her to accept their evaluation. I should say the FIG claim adjustor referred the evalution to a company; he failed to clarify the evaluator was an employee of FIG, not the other company.
All in all, I have never met such a crew of pirates; this is, possibly, legal extortion. The bad faith exhibited by FIG agents in this case is certain and is despicable. This is the short version. My condolences to anyone insured by FIG/Zurich.
I am glad that you quit FIG. What you state is probably true. It is an epidemic and one cure to this problem is for people to understand their rights and fight for them if necessary. Each state of this union has regulations that insurance companies must abide by when it comes to operating in that state. Those laws are made to protect the consumer. Unfortunatly most consumers do not even know these types of protections exist. Your claims rep, your agent or whoever are not going to tell you these laws exist because it is not in their best interest. The quickest cure would be for insurance reform instilling laws that would effectively stop and severly punish those companies for unfair practices. Lets face it. Most or all people do not understand their policies and most policies are written so that you need a Philadelphia Lawyer to decipher them for you. That is what insurance companies count on, the fact that you really don\’t know what coverage you have. They also count on the fact that you believe they work for your best interest when the truth is they work alone for themselves and the profit. Have you ever noticed the type of car your agent drives or the adjuster drives?
For those who do or are strong willed enough to fight against the wrong doing (lowballing, etc.) in the courts, the insurance company tries to delay the court process as best it can to break the plaintiffs bank or will power. And then when that doesn\’t work they want to settle.
The response from Mr. Poe to my initial post is also true. He points out that many insurance companies do in fact treat customers, when it comes to paying claims, far less than respectful. I have found some major insurance companies with less than good complaint ratios, but Farmers (aka as many other entities) continues to be at the top of the lists.
The point . . .protect yourself. Do not let the insurance companies roll over you.
The practices you describe by your adjuster were not because he was a \”newbie\”. This insurance company is noted very well for training their claims reps to do just what he did. This is SOP for this insurance company.
Two years ago our home was destroyed by fire. My experience mirrors your\’s exactly.The claims adjuster was sent in from another state (to make it more difficult to contact, would not respond to phone calls, would not respond to e-mails (the only time he did was to tell us that he could not type which by his inability to effectively communicate was proven beyond any doubt) and would not, as required in a timely fashion, submit to a arbitration. We took this to Federal Court for a non-binding arbitration and in front of a judge these FIG idiots and their lawyers defied the judge. That will prove to be fatal for them as we head off to a jury trial. This is all because FIG would not act in good faith.
The problem with Farmers is just not in California or Texas alone but all across the United States. A search of state by state insurance complaints puts Farmers at the very top or among top three in just about every state when it comes to consumer complaints. And, to boot, a company that operates under more than 60 names smacks of corruption. Why do they need so many names?
I don\’t know what most of the posts mean when they use the term \”agent\’, whether it is the person who sold them the policy or the agent handling their claim. But it has been rumored that Farmer\’s gives the selling agents kick-backs for funneling clients their way. If anyone out there reading this post think you may have been treated this way by your agent, contact your State Insurance reglation department and seek the advice from a well qualified lawyer.
For all of the people who are employed by Farmers and stick by their employer . . . it is good to take pride in what do. But for those of you who do have a conscience, it will eventually catch up to you and you will see what this company really is. For those of you who don\’t have a conscience, Farmers will soon enough put the screws to you too. If you are too foolish to understand this, just check the history of Farmers and their past employees. Espescially the ones who sued Farmers for not paying them what they deserved. That alone states volumes about the character of this company.
And about taking pride in what you do . . . there is no pride ii being a rep for Farmers.
My previous post was directed to Carl Farm when it should have been in support of a post by Djean. My apologies for any confusion and/or typos in my post.
We track insurer and adjuster conduct regarding suspected fraudulent / unfair claim handling and settlement practices.
We have compelling information gathered to date (3-4-2006) from around the nation, and would invite you to review part of the information at the following link–
As you will see the different parties being sued for fraudulent conduct, and other unfair claim settlement issues, include;
FARMERS NEW CENTURY INSURANCE COMPANY,
USAA GENERAL INDEMNITY COMPANY,
ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY,
HARTFORD FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY,
STATE FARM FIRE AND CASUALTY COMPANY,
TRAVELERS PROPERTY CASUALTY,
CORPORATION/TRAVELERS PROPERTY CASUALTY COMPANY OF AMERICA,
NATIONWIDE MUTUAL FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY,
OMAHA PROPERTY AND CASUALTY,
and other insurers, adjusters, FEMA-NFIP-WYO associates, claim estimating data management vendors, and many others, are named in the 2 Billion dollar (2003 Hurricane Isabel related) lawsuit.
Please feel free to contact us in regards to your own observations and research.
I have entensive water damage to my home due to water line break while I was out of town. The adjuster told me he would not be there until friday it was sunday night. We had to leave our home because the Company Farmers had come in gutted my kitchen. We had to pay for our living expenses for 10 days before we recived a check. At a hotel 40 miles away w/ 2 kids 2/ dogs I moved my own belongings,Stored my belongs, I found my own rental, cleaned it, ( Farmers will pay landlord at the end of the month)who does that? So far contractor est are at 20, 25 thou. Farmers wants to pay me 13. The first check est was 6000.00, For replacement of all kitchen cabnets 2000.00 where the hell am I gonna find that!!! .40 cents to remove carpet!!! What can I do? I can’t afford a lawyer if I could I would just hand it over to them, but them Farmers depends on that don’t they?
After 22 years w Farmers claims….I quit! They no longer trust experienced reps.. They are into data procesing, plug the numbers in and the computer spits out a number. No more more \”experienced decision making. Period!
One of my ast claims was an injury claim for an MVA where the injured party was hispanic and spoke no english. The Farmers insured was drunk when he had the loss. With a qualified interpreter I met the young man who had over $4,500 in bills. I settled the claim on the spot for $8,500. I ws repremanded, put on probation and my 22 yeas of experience amounted to ZERO. My authority was reduced to $1,500 from $10,000. All Farmers want is BA or BS degreee newbies who can data entry and stay within the programs vlue range. Exceed it and you\’re gone.
Everyone has expectations in a claims experience the \”art\” of Claims handleing is to manage those expectations. Somewhere along the line the company decided that experience means nothing and only the data formulas were relied upon.
This is not a \”Farmers Problem\” now that I am on the plaintiff side, I see adjuster after adjuster quit or move to postons that no longer require the personal touch. IT\’S AN EPIDEMIC! All companies are seeing huge turnover. I can\’t tell you how many times I hav to change contacts in order to settle or at last try to settle a claim. Ridiculous. These carriers are in lock step with Allstte and Chubb and Progressive\’s busines plans. Using the same programs, the sae scorched earth policies. Defense lawyer relief fund
1 Million is nothing!. Some day an agressive plaintif attory is going to get something in the MULTI-BILLIONS. I guarantee it!
Then they\’ll miss all the experienced reps they chased out in exchange for youger, more computer literate, cheaper, lower benifit payments due to age. I could go on but I have a vested interest. After 22 years I have a pension I\’d like to use some day. Figure that??????????????
I have been reading the posts concerning JD Power ranking of Farmers. Some of those posts, obviously posted by Farmers\’ Reps, tout Farmers as receiving the JD Power stamp of approval. One even claimed that JD Power ranked Farmers as 1st??? So giving those comments the benefit of doubt, I went to JD Power web site to see the rankings for myself. No where does it rank Farmers as #1 and in reality, the new rankings that I viewed gave Farmers a less than average rating. But that I guess is good news for Farmers employees.
If any person wants to take the time, they can do a state by state search of the insurance complaints filed for a given year. Some have that info right on the web while other states ask you to file a FOIL application. You will find the amount of complaints filed against any given insurance company and of those complaints, which were viable. Viable meaning that they were presented to that state DOI in a way that would promote their investigations. In other words, if you did not articulate in your complaint the DOI could only investigate on what you documented. If what you wrote couldn\’t be substantiated you lose. This didn\’t mean that you weren\’t wronged by your insurance company, just that you couldn\’t prove it. And unfortunately, most people can not communicate in written form that well.
So having said that, when you look at the complaints state by state, look at the total amount of complaints filed against any given company and not just the ones that the states acted on. You\’re going to find a lot of complaints, but unfortunately most of those customer complaints belong to Farmers. I know, I researched them to present in court. Kansas, Texas (regardless of what Faremers Agents state on this website)and California are among the worst rankings for Farmers. And please, be aware that Farmers operates under several different names in different states. It is important to note this when trying to accumulate this figure.
Perhaps it is as some say that Farmers are trying to change their deceitful ways.
I think not . . . no I am sure they are not.
I just had a recent run in with Farmers again. This time when one of their insured backed into my car, left the scene of the accident after I told them that the law officials were on the way. It took the police two days to find them and when they did, it was noted that this lady had tried to cover the damage to her car. She was given a ticket and had to appear in court. Still Farmers refused to pay for the damages to my car. When I talked to the Help Point Claims rep that was handling the claim she went from being a rep to a litigation specialist! That was because after telling me they weren\’t going to cover the claim I told them I had the local police re-open the investigation, put together an accident reconstruction team to testify in court where I would sue them if necessary. The next day Farmers and their claims rep/litigation specialist called from Virginia to state that they were going to pay. That they had realized their insured was lying to them. This took around two months! And yes this was recent.
If farmers is trying to improve their immage this is a very bad way to do so.
I know that this is about 6 weeks after the posting but if djean is still having problems with the FIG adjuster, I suggest he get a Texas Proof of Loss form, fill it out for policy limits, sign it before a Notary Public (both Mr. and Mrs. if married and community property, then send it by regular mail with a proof of mailing to some FIG agent in Alaska or to the address on his policy jacket. These things are mailed to Home Offices all the time and get lost. If they can\’t find it in 91 days in order to reject it, he can then file suit to execute the properly sworn Proof.
You will find that most major insurance companies have fired or put out to pasture all of the experienced people so they are now run by the opposite. FIG, for example, has raided Progressive Insurance for their \”new\” management people for their Property Claims Division. To show how smart this is, All of these Progressive people only have experience in AUTO. If anybody reads Dilbert, that has to be inspired by Farmers!
The scenero above is not a pipe dream because a person did this to Allstate many years ago and was awarded policy limits on a moderate fire.
As far as the JD Powers thing is concerned, it is a lot of hype. On one hand Farmers wants to send out and receive perfect marks on their customer surveys. The poor adjuster has to write the estimate and then print the check and all of the correspondence in the car while twisted and an unnatural angle. If the adjuster does not do this, his files will be down graded (they are audited monthly). If they pay too much, they are also downgraded. The pressure and micro management is unreal.
If the adjuster comes up against a problem situation, there is no backing whatsoever from management. You are doomed on all sides.
Although I am an adjuster of very long standing, I would recommend to anyone who has a bad property claim with Farmers to either hire a good attorney or a Public Adjuster.
After reading your description of what adjusters are subject to from their employers, I keep coming back to this question. If anyone with a moral conscience are subject to such working conditions or are forced to do something that is against their moral ethics (screw people out of their rightful claims money, put insureds through hell), why would you want to work in those types of jobs? In the most real terms, there is no excuse at all for adjusters to act this way on behalf of their employers other than that the adjusters moral ethics are just not existant or they enjoy making peoples\’lives a living hell, relagating the adjuster to less than human, a person who would turn on their own mothers for money. I know that if I were required to do those misdeeds I would be looking for employment in a different field elsewhere. In other words, what I am saying is that adjusters have a choice. It is they who make the decision to work under these conditions under those terms. These people are not being forced to do these kinds of actions, but doing them of their own free will making them culpable in any legal action against that insurer.
If adjusters truly feel the way you do and want to stay in this business, now is the time to join together, take a stand against the bad faith insurance companies/employers and bring back the respect to this industry that you say once existed.
Just recently with a State Farm adjuster, and two (ex-contractor\’s) Pilot Claim Service adjusters, who process claims for Allstate Insurance Company in the Beaumont Texas area affected by hurricane Rita, who are ALL now claiming that wind damage to shingles is not really damage.
The damage they are now disclaiming is affecting thousands of home and business owners. The damage they are disclaiming is where wind loads are so intense that the tar sealant bonds that attach one shingle to the shingle below it is lifted / broken and then wind carried debris debris collects under the shingles and DOES NOT allow shingles to thermally rebond again.
This form of wind / shingle damage is readily recognized by shingle manufacturing engineers, but until recently, now not recognized by Allstate or State Farm, at least in Texas.
I feel some insurers are intentionally defrauding their clients, and using ones like ex-contractors turned \”adjusters\” to add a veneer of ligitimacy to their claim assessment processes.
Sadly, their scheme will only play out for so long…When adjusters can earn $400.00 per day working for some con artists, they become the con\’s themselves…
I received word yesterday, from a General Contractor in Florida, that the same irrational denial of shingle wind damage is being perpetuated in Florida (3-15-2006).
I wonder how underwritting investors, insurance regulators, and the feds, are going to react when they catch wind of such \”fair and reasonable\” indemnification practices being perpetuated nationwide…
Complain to the State Board of Insurance. Tell the TDI that your company is making you file sut to get your money. If the insurance company has made any payment on the roof, send a letter demanding Appraisal under the provisions of the policy. Send in a Sworn Proof of Loss for the policy limits. Complain to the BBB. File suit under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act.
Send letters to everyone, including your state rep and senator.
You write like a lawyer or doctor, or just a well educated claimant. You obviously know what you are talking about, so I can\’t believe you are serious; however, if you are, you simply need a good lawyer. Too many other details left out of your scenario, like the amount of your specials, proof of future economic loss (wages), venue, etc.
does anyone out there know what $ I oughta\’ ask for and would be willing to help me in the settlement process? I was rear-ended by a woman who was clearly at fault and was cited for her actions and was insured by Farmers Insurance. Everything I am about to share with you is documented by Dr\’s and hospitals and my journal. I have pre-existing conditions that were exacerbated from the accident. The \’invisible\’ symptoms include MS, Depression, inability to take medication (I get worse), a suicide attempt, and the physical symptoms include a disc protrusion in my neck, brachial radiculopathy, ongoing nerve pain that radiates from the disc up into my head and down into my left arm and hand. I was on a (documented) career path that has ended with the doctor\’s recommendation. People with MS don\’t learn and make changes easily. I get one shot at the settlement and I am not a wallflower. To the contrary, I am quite a whistle blower and the ridiculous low-ball offer that Farmer\’s Insurance has offered me is an insult. Ideas?
I am well-educated and well-versed in what I am familiar with. What I don\’t know is what I would like help with. I think I may be entitled to more $ than I or other\’s who I\’ve talked to are aware of. And, it\’s a matter of principle – I\’m an \”Erin Brockovich\” type and it infuriates me that companies, such as Farmer\’s Insurance, who happen to know how the game is played and have legal teams to protect their finances rip-off folks with less $ and are less educated and don\’t have the backbone to stand up to them. Belive me, this is no joke and you might not think I need any help, but if I do, then I do.
Again, you need to seek out a good and reputable lawyer. It doesn\’t matter what you ask for or how loud you scream, you will likely not get what you feel you are entitled to by attempting to negotiate this matter on your own. They will not take you seriously until you file your suit and the depositions begin. Only then will they realize the seriousness of your case. You can file complaints with Farmer\’s executive office, with your State\’s DOI, and even call the news media, but you will only be delaying the inevitable. I have 28 years experience in the claims field and personal injuries and lawsuits in particular. Trust me, you need to allow your actions to speak louder than your words.
I think I saw a movie in the early 80\’s with Paul Newman(sp) One statement made was that \”In America you have a CHANCE at justice\” but you don\’t necessarily get it.
DO THE MATH. Farmers Insurance lost 20% of their PIF in the past 2 years, yet congratulated each other for a record profit year. Farmer\’s faithfuls where did the record profit come from, they lost 20% of their PIF and reduced premiums. It does not take Einstein to figure where the profit was derived. Management asked claims to reduce pay outs, if they didn\’t they were written up. The added benefit to this was the high turnover of experienced (they knew better) higher grade pay help. WOW! what luck cheap, inexperienced adjusters to deny claims (60%) turnover rate. Management is sooo smart they are arrogant, it worked lowering claims costs by not paying the claims in-full, and getting all your experienced higher paid adjusters to quit.This management has now decided to launch a new auto program, guess who they lo-balled this time, the AGENT. That\’s right beat the competition by cutting the agents auto commission by 30%, WOW, again it will increase there profits this year. I can not wait to see there next move. They have reduced their DM\’s percentage so much noone with any experience (brains)will take the job. WOW! that worked well DM\’s now make 50% less than 10 years ago. A DM;s job is to higher new talent, but in most cases THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN AN AGENT!YOU TELL ME! IS THIS SOUND MANAGEMENT? THE INDEPENDENT AGENT BEATS YOUR RATE, AND MAKES 100% MORE COMMISSION. This information is fact, and public information, do not kill the messenger.
Einstien . . . it sounds as if you were an agent or claims adjuster for FIG? I won\’t shoot the messanger if, as you say, all the info you posted here in your comment is a matter of Public Record. Where can I find this info? Web site?
Another class action (no class)against Farmers Insurance Group. It appears they were over-charging policyholders on their Easy Pay. I know you are going to say all insurance companies are doing this, and again Farmers Insurance just got caught, its not three strikes and your not out? No big deal!
When a house fire occurred at our home, the Farmers insurance company relocated us to a hotel. Then a meeting was set up with an out of state adjuster, our agent and us. At the meeting, where we were obviously in the \”courtship\” phase we were taken to a nice restaurant for lunch. But before the meal ended, the out of state agent began to grow more and more terse, openly stating the limits he\’d go on our \”large fire loss,\” which proved to be approx. $250,000.
We were given a packet of fire loss information, and informed that by law we could hire a Public Adjustor (nicknamed ambulance chaser with a chuckle from the out of state Farmers adjustr) and did not have to have the out of state Farmers adjuster. The packet included a list of the PA\’s clients. We called them, and the complaints from clients concerned a variety of insurance companies. The one which was incredible to me was a house fire to large home in which the insured\’s were offered $245,000 by Farmers for a $619,000 loss. This was just one scenario, in which Farmers would pocket the additional monies over the $245,000 in the policy needed by the homeowner for his loss. Others told of Farmers pocketing or trying to rip off insureds for varying amounts but usually $100,000 and up.
One Farmers trick is to say the insureds are guilty of arson. I interviewed at least two who had this played on them. One man had a rental that caught fire when he was at work and he was accused of arson. He had to hire attorneys etc and was cleared. If one is ever cleared of suspicion in documents or reports. The PA openly told at a meeting with contractors of a man he represented who was cleared and he thinks he was probably guilty! Right now in our area this has been played on a couple who are charged with arson, and are living in a tent in their back yard because they are told they have no right to claim living expenses. To get them into a hotel, their innocence must be proven through a lengthy investigation.
One unscrupulous Farmers Insurance practice is for the agent to offer his insureds a policy in either a lower economy premium amount or a higher amount. No other policy is offered. Thinking you are protecting yourself responsibly, you take the higher policy in the higher amount, such as 184,000 for the structure, and 128,000 for the content. What is not foreseen is that when disaster occurrs the agent discloses that the fine print reads you must be insured 100 % loan to value or you do not qualify for an additional 25 % which is crucial if your home needs to be rebuilt due to damage, because contractors don\’t work for free. You learn that you as insureds have liability for interior of walls and beams covered with sooty acidic stained beams which give forth fire odor when the home is warmed, or weather is damp. The only way to remove this smell is to gut the entire house, and this doesn\’t happen for this policy amount, without the additional 25 %. When you try to file your claim, you are told \”I\’m sorry but this is all the coverage you have.\” You cannot locate a contractor who will touch the case. They think it\’s a joke! Your structure cannot be rebuilt for that amount. Then the adjuster or agent play real estate agents circling like buzzards picking the victims bones to force you to \”sell\” your property to a builder. You have few options or alternatives at this point.
Repair with like kind and materials has it\’s limitations to your policy amount. We had an older home with lathe and plaster. When we got to finer points of our loss on this home over 100 years old, they wanted to replace original light fixtures with cheap new ones. Do they sell your originals to salvage yards for $$$?
While the PA states he now has our situation under control and the home will be rebuilt, it hasn\’t started yet. We feel ripped off that we were forced to hire a PA who charged 10% on the structure and even added charges of 10% of the fire damage cleaning peoples fees, so we owe him nearly $30,000 for his services. But there was no other way to recover the damages to make our home livable and be able to free ourselves of liability when we sell the home.
As your loss claim progresses, additional damage can occur due to negligence on the part of professionals hired to assist. If you feel you have a basis, file a new claim, while your old one is still pending. An example would be water intrusion due to an improperly tarped or deteriorating tarped roof, which a contractor was supposed to repair but didn\’t, causing excessive water damage.
Or a contractor bids repairs, stating they\’d do an asbestos survey as part of the repairs, to check for asbestos is listed on the bid, together with an asbestos survey after the interior demolition is complete to see if there was contamination.
Be sure to check your construction bill to see if it lists a $25.00-$30.00 required by law. Asbestos tests are necessary and there\’s an extensive list of things which can containing asbestos, from popcorn ceilings, to old flooring to knob and tube wiring, to old chimney grout. Contractors additionally must perform or have done in addition to the asbestos test, a necessary asbestos \”survey\” which runs about $350-$400 because if the survey is omitted, this may indicate that proper procedures for dealing with abestos were not followed. By failing to obtain the survey it may show that they didn\’t want to be exposed as negligent in this. And if asbestos is in the air, and you or your family breathes it, this is a health hazard.
You can look in the Yellow Pages under asbestos, or mold and obtain testing cheaply in that case. I say this because there are claims for homes are not being pay by insurance companies using contractors to further insurance destroy them by stalling and letting them go moldy, or by asbestos contaminating them. You don\’t want your family made ill by either of these fraudulent procedures. By law they have to obtain these reports, and you can obtain these. Need help? Contact the Clean Air agency of your city.
If you are being continuously threatened that your living expense is running out, and if you don\’t mitigate repairs your living expense will be terminated, but they are stalling off on repairing your property using the funds you\’re entitled to under your policy coverage, do not procrastinate, but recognize this is a fraudulent move on their part.
Beware of the attempt of any insurance company to insurance destroy your home to avoid paying the claim. Contractors stalling and allowing mold growth. This age old contractor -adjuster scam is called \”House Cooking\” and variations of this are reported. I read a report of a guilty person who went to prison for this. Look up a search under house cooking on the internet. Contractors may try to drum up more business for themselves by worsening your damages to obtain more money. But an insurance company may also utilize this technique to avoid paying out your claim.
I experienced a lack of professionalism in my dealings with my district office. It took a couple of months for Scott to stop calling my girlfriend’s phone to reach me even though I told him many times to call my phone as I repeatedly provided my cell phone number. My training class was cancelled multiple times as I would show up to an empty room only to be told “I’m sorry. You didn’t get that e-mail?” I would also take it upon myself to set up one on one meetings with Scott. On a number of these meetings I showed up only to find Scott’s office empty. Farmers meets when they want to meet, it is not a mutually respectful relationship. When these meetings with Scott did occur, I went above and beyond what I was required to do. I set up agendas for the meetings, along with typed reports of my activities, their results, and other ideas I had for marketing. I stopped sharing this information when my ideas were spread around at a Monday morning meeting for all the other new agents. On another occasion we were told to purchase internet leads and we will be reimbursed. After many efforts to be reimbursed, compensation came a couple months later. Not everyone else was even reimbursed. A little bit of time after I turned career, Angela Joo sent me an e-mail asking for a form showing completion of my first set of Virtual University Career Courses. I had to question her as to what this was all about, for my district office failed to inform me that these were required. In order to complete these courses I needed a new Business Builder binder that correlated with these Virtual University Courses. I then was forced to ask Merrick for this binder and rush through these courses in a day to show completion to Angela. Gradually I became disillusioned to the idea of incorporating my district manager into the growth of my agency.
Scott wanted me to be career within 3 months of having my licenses. This is a business that needs to be set up, not a sales job. At sales jobs you are provided leads. From the instant I walked into the district office, emphasis was placed on becoming a Career agent. Emphasis should be placed on building all the intricacies of the business. I felt extremely rushed, as if I was working on Scott’s timetable and not mine. I went back to my paperwork to find that I had a year to progress to a Career agent, and to know that the pressure being applied to sell was undue. My Career Conversion was rushed. I got call saying to come in later that day because my meeting was the next day. This left me with not much time to prepare. I also had to produce many documents on incredibly short notice and was informed by Scott to just make the paperwork look good for Farmers standards (put whatever I had to put, basically, whether honest or not aka Financial Worksheet). He told me just to make sure the Financial Worksheet worked out. State Farm requires its new agents to have $30,000 plus dollars in the bank as a cushion until the agency made money. I suppose that the Financial Worksheet is similar in design, to see that the new agent has the capital to finance himself for a period of time. However, just making it look good basically nullifies the paper because it is fraudulent. Speaking of fraudulent business practices, Scott has paid for life insurance policies so agents can have their numbers to meet the Career requirements. According to the Insurance Code, if you give one person a free policy then you must give everyone a free insurance policy. This also put me in the position of trying to convince people to take a free life insurance policy that was not even desired. This is rebating and is illegal, unless Farmers gives everyone a free life insurance policy. I am not the only agent with whom this has occurred.
“Farmers has developed point of sale tools to facilitate the sales process so you can focus your attentions on the customers’ needs — not on complicated applications and forms.” This statement is from SRN 32-7561 which is a folder I was given to help sell the decision to become a Farmers agent. However, my experiences over the past year have led me to believe otherwise. In addition to focusing on clients’ needs, pressure is provided to be out selling, selling, and selling. I have been told that at this point in an agency’s life not much time is needed to service clients. However, the systems in place on the Agency Dashboard need much improvement. My clients have been subjected to an unacceptable level of customer service. Wrong billing occurs constantly. The paperwork that needs to be provided is something that I have seen all new agents struggle with. Policies are cancelled left and right. Some of my policies were cancelled just due to system errors when all of the necessary requirements had been provided on time. I have had rude phone calls to my clients. One person from Farmers argued with my client over the fact that his wife, a stay at home mom, was a commuter because she drove a child to school. All of this leads to phone calls from upset clients, who receive an abundant amount of unnecessary paperwork, which I can barely get explanations for when I call the service center. More importantly, it takes a great deal of time, contrary to the statements that servicing will not occupy a lot of my agency’s time.
How I was trained
There was an extreme discrepancy between the training that is described in the Business Builder book and what actually happened. Not much real training provided, just promises of training and help. “Go meet people. Schedule 15 per week, see 10, sell 3.” I was told quick lines to sell, not insurance knowledge. I was told how to make fake relationships by talking for a few minutes about family, entertainment, and a few other conversation points. If you do not know already how to establish meaningful relationships, you should not be in this job in the first place. I was directed to walk into realtors offices, set up open houses at apartments. I walked into these places pondering “I sure hope they don’t ask me insurance questions.” The sales points were that I will return phone calls because I am new and not too busy, not the real reason why people should buy from me: superior knowledge, service, and reliability (the latter two I can always provide, however, it takes training and learning to provide superior knowledge and advice). Most of my learning came from telephone calls to the service center. Furthermore, the direction that was received did not put me in positions to come in contact with the type of people I would be most successful dealing with. I was told be in business for myself, but not by myself. If I needed help, find an agent to help me and pay him half the commissions (that’s not support — that’s hired help). It is dog eat dog. You are just thrust out there and Farmers sees who survives.
How I would train
The first step I would do is have basic product knowledge be acquired independently. If questions are needed, have an easy access to answers. Much of this comes from licensing training and reading the manual. This is memorization. I would focus in my training classes not just on the theory, but applying the products to reality and which products suit which people. An integral part of the training process should be learning claims. This is what we are in business for. All I know is “Hey, call HelpPoint, I guess.” A trip should be taken down to the claims station to see what it is all about. How claims are settled should be learned. The Business Builder manual, if followed, would provide adequate training as far as products are concerned, however this is not followed in my district office.
The main motivation I have heard to sell life insurance is that it will bring in the most capital to a young agency. This may be true, however, the main motivation should be that life insurance is a right fit for a particular client. As far as marketing life insurance, I would suggest a new agent to familiarize himself with two or three specific life insurance products that they understand well. For me, this would be term insurance. New parents in their twenties do not have the money to pay for a permanent policy yet, but need protection. They are not likely to have an insurability issue in the relative future so hopefully there shouldn’t be any problem with converting the term to permanent down the road.
I would have new agents identify the demographics of their natural market and identify how to reach them. Rather than an umbrella approach, targeting whomever will do business with you, be specific in the types of people you approach. It should not be hard to devise ways to reach these people due to the fact that you are predisposed to coming in contact with them naturally. Farmers should know which particular demographics and segments of the population they are targeting for new business and bring in agents that can connect with these segments. This may take more time as hiring needs to be more selective and careful, but it is good underwriting practices that can be used in hiring, just as in finding business.
A good leader is in the trenches with his troops. I would never ask someone to do something that I have not done myself. I have been in multiple supervisory positions in my employment history and I question the aptitude of leadership provided by my district manager.
How I would Hire
I would analyze the data of which parts of the population Farmers could do a better job of attaining business. Whether this be the latino population, people within a certain age bracket, or however the data presents itself would dictate the type of agents needed. To reach the latino population, bring in latino agents. To reach people ages 25-35, bring in agents within that age range. Not only would this have to match, but the new agents must be ethical, moral, and personable people who would give Farmers a good reputation and already know how to establish real, lasting relationships with people. A company is only as good as the people who are working for it. Not a lot was asked about me during my interviewing process which is not good underwriting. By being more selective, the training resources would not be depleted by people who are not going to stick around and can be utilized more efficiently.
Right Way versus Wrong Way to Build a Business
There is a right way versus a wrong way to build a business. I desire preferred clients and would rather not waste my time with people whom I realize are not going to be around for the long haul. You can not always know this, but can come close. Telemarketing, door to door sales, and internet leads are a few of the wrong ways to grow your business. These methods do produce some sales, but with a low success rate considering the amount of people needed to be contacted in order to make a sale. Cold call does not fit with the models of prospecting for profitable business. When I look for a client I want a long term relationship and I also want profitable business. Agents are the eyes and ears of an insurance company and we make the first judgment over the insurability of a client. Many times these prospects are shoppers who chose you because you were 3 dollars cheaper. When Steve at State Farm is 50 cents cheaper than me at next renewal, my client is now Steve’s client. This just is not conducive to loyal customers. In addition, the underwriting process is a bit more complex because you are dealing with someone in which you have no background info. Something must replace these methods, however, because production does need to be made.
The right way to build an insurance business is to gain a reputation based on trustworthiness, a superior knowledge of insurance products, claims, and the industry as a whole, customer service above and beyond the call of duty, and giving back to the community. It takes time to build a reputation and I am fine with the fact that it takes longer. If this is truly my business then I should be able to progress at the rate that I desire. By doing right by people, by being ethical, moral, and knowledgeable, and having this reputation spread in a grassroots manner I believe will achieve greater long term success than cold selling techniques. Substitutes must be put in place of the cold selling techniques. The first step we all agree on is your natural market. Now ones natural market can spread beyond the people whom one knows, but the people with whom common bonds are shared, but not yet met. Referrals do not even have to be asked for as they will come naturally due to your exceptional reputation. Being social and out in the community brings business as well. The key, however, is not being pushy. Sales quotas force an agent to be desperate and this can be sensed by the public and I prefer to regard people as people, not numbers in a numbers game.
Farmers Does Not Get You Back Where You Belong
In late October I went camping for a weekend in the desert. I off-road and ride dirt bikes, which is a market that I feel I could have been extremely successful prospecting for ‘foremost’ policies, along with the rest of these peoples’ insurance business. The last night I was out in the desert I had an accident with the campfire. Flame shot at me and lit my jacket on fire. I was on fire for a decent amount of time and burned my left leg along with my genital areas. These were deep second degree burns and I spent a good part of a week in and out of the hospital. I left a message for Merrick Tarpey stating that I would not be in for the Monday meeting due to this unfortunate event. This message was even played for the other agents in the office. Luckily, my uncle, currently a profusionist, had been a nurse in a burn center years ago. Due to his presence and experience in dealing with burns I was able to go home each night, although it was a fight for the doctors wanted me to be an in-patient. My uncle also ruled out skin grafts believing I could heal on my own (which turned out to be true). I am only the second person to have the burn treatments (hydrotherapy, etc) as an outpatient in the history of UCI Burn Center. During this first week I received an e-mail from Janie Ortega, which I can supply, that stated “I hope everything is OK…but do you have new policies?” The last thing I needed to deal with was pressure from my work. I never heard from Scott until I sent an e-mail to Angela Joo in corporate. I had set up a MILK event and she was invited in to help by Scott. I explained to Angela what had happened to me and that I probably would not be able to attend the MILK event. She expressed concern and it was not until after this exchange that I heard from Scott via e-mail. By the time I was allowed out of the house, past the point of infection, it was the beginning to middle of December. The holidays were approaching and are a slow time for insurance sales. I had even been warned about this by Scott. So the holidays went by and I set myself out to start up my business again the first of the year. I have policies in force, but it almost presented itself as having to start all over again. I then received a bill instead of a paycheck, as I had missed my sales numbers. A letter came in the mail calling me a ‘minimum performer’ and threatening termination unless I caught up all my policies by the next quarter (which was almost halfway through). At this point I gave up. An insurance company is in business to provide support to their clients when an unexpected, terrible event occurs. This is in exchange for the premiums paid by the clients each month. When one of Farmers’ own went down in the worst experience of his life, Farmers jumped all over me and this made me question the motives behind Farmers and whether they would hold their word and help my clients in their times of need. I sent an e-mail to William Walruth and got a phony response from Scott. It just felt like Farmers was attempting to not be sued as opposed to actually caring and helping. The final straw came when I went into my office a couple weeks ago and found my desk emptied and all of my files and personal belongings thrown in the corner.
Lack of Full Disclosures and Discrepancies Between Talk and Action
From the start of my relationship with Farmers, there was a lack of disclosure. For example, I was told that office rent was free during your reserve agent status. Then it was $100 to keep a cubicle once you turned career or you could pay more for an office space. I got $100 dollar bills right away and this progressed to $600 plus once I turned career. There were secretary fees, kitchen fees, network fees. I could set up all of these for myself at my own location for a lot cheaper. On top of this, I was paying rent for an office that I did not have a key to for the longest time. Only when I realized everyone else had a key except for me is when I approached my district office personnel about obtaining a key. On top of this, you find out later that error and omission polices are over $300 dollars a month plus $50 for Farmers advertisements (which I have never seen or heard) and $10 a month for FEAPAC. So basically, the Career Conversion looks like a good deal and will provide support to a growing agency, but most of the subsidy is charged right back by Farmers. All kinds of support is promised, but you must pay for any help you receive.
Times Are Changing
Times are changing. I believe that the importance of a storefront is diminishing. People desire to spend as little time as possible on insurance. A departure from the agency model is occurring as companies are eliminating their agency force and internet companies like E-surance are gaining business. Such changes have occurred in the past. The original Farmers agents worked their previous job until they had enough policies in force to support their business and themselves, and often set up their office out of their house. Most of these agents were rural workers, living in an unstable insurance market. Such an arrangement today would be extremely beneficial. Today’s insurance market is flooded with agents and companies competing for business which yields a tough market, much as I would expect these rural agents experienced. Instead of subsidy, which basically takes away a new agent’s autonomy by tying sales quotas and attaching strings to the new agency, one would be better suited to work a part time job to bring in the revenue that subsidy provides. During my high school years I employed myself at the local Starbucks. During the course of my employment at Starbucks I established a plethora of relationships with customers. These customers had become accustomed to my superior customer service standards. I had lawyers and other professionals bringing me into their jobs to help me decide on the avenue I took in my professional life. Starbucks provided me with an exceptional networking mechanism, which could easily be turned into insurance policies. Meanwhile, one is making money while networking, rather than spending money to meet people.
The “Female Farmers Agent” said it best. When you do your best you will succeed. I am a recruiter and I take great care in those I choose. Not everyone is made for sales, not everyone is made to be an agent. If it was easy everyone would do it. It is hard to find someone that possesses the qualities I look for but when I do I make sure to let them know the good and the bad. We can lead the horses to the water but we CANNOT MAKE YOU DRINK!
I would never take someone that I did not think had the qualities and the potential to be a great agent. And as far as some of the neg. comments on our training are concerned every DM trains differently but we take our time to show and answer all questions prior to our new agents meeting with clients and when they need assistance with a presentation our DM goes with them and assists them in completing the presentation. WE DO NOT TAKE THE COMMISSIONS as so stated in one of the previous emails.
Lets face it you could type in any company and get negative feedback on them but I felt it was necessary to share this from my point of view.
Best of Luck and I hope that you all can release this negativity that will only hinder you in life. Let yourself move on. To hate something/someone takes so much energy.
WOW! where do you get your information. They never cut commissions by 30%. You need to get your facts straight before acting like you know what you’re talking about. Also, a lot of the DM’s have been agents for Farmers or even agents with other companies
who the hell is Farmers New Century Insurance Company…its not related to Farmers Insurance Group…here are the companies that are listed in the $2 Billion law suit…The insurance company defendants include Allstate, Harleysville Mutual, The Hartford, Liberty Mutual, Nationwide Mutual, State Farm, Travelers and USAA.
Farmers Easy Pay is one of the biggest rip-offs I have ever seen. Once they’ve locked on your bank accoutn you wind up with zero control of when they pull funds out- one month they may pull double… or triple… it’s a crap shoot!
Farmer’s took full responsibility for their insured who rear ended my wife. However, I am still trying to get them to tell me the limits of liability. We are at over $60k and counting for medical services alone.
Is there a way to force this or can they continue to ignore me. They also haven’t paid even the emergency room doc or ER x-rays. Had to have it paid out of my PIP to keep it from going to collections.
Insurance companies won’t disclose the limits, it’s not just Farmers. As a claimant insurance companies will usually only pay you a one time settlement for injuries. They won’t pay the bill as you get the bill. Ask for the adjustors supervisor if you need to &/or ask your own insurance agent to explain the process.
Ok, so please explain this. If we have already exceeded the limits with my wife’s treatment and today’s surgery and the Farmer’s insured doesn’t have the money to make up the difference then through no fault of my own I am going to owe for the medical treatment if it exceeds the sum of Farmer’s and my my own PIP? That means this idiot will cause me to either pay out of my own pocket or default on the medical bills and suffer the results?
Depending on the State you live in and if you have underinsured motorist coverage, if the Farmers policy limits run out & your PIP runs out you may be able to use your underinsured motorist coverage or if you have your own health insurance, coverage may be able to come from them. Your own agent should be able to explain this process to you.
We have received your fax dated July 20, 2008, and thank you for this request for an update on the progress being made regarding the repair of our home damaged by fire on May 1, 2006. Belfor Construction Services, a Farmers preferred contractor, and recommended highly by our public adjuster David L Griffith, and also the company Farmers hired to assist in determining the Scope of Loss, performed a significant amount of the interior demolition of the fire damage, and were still gathering up their sani-can and we were dealing with debris they should have dumped but failed to remove from the premises.
David Griffith brought the repair check over to expedite the payment of Belfor. However, on November 30, 2006 Belfor rejected this ACV check which Farmers paid out in August 2006 and we endorced in the presence of our public adjuster, David L Griffith of Sound Loss & Claims and which he turned over to them. In about February 2007, we received a telephone call from the Belfor Legal Dept. stating that it was their understanding that our the public adjuster of Sound Loss & Claims was having the check revised. As stated previously, this was because Belfor Construction Services wanted it revised, and had to go through the proper authority. This revision of the check complicated things, as Farmers then issued Belfor a revised check which omitted our banks name as first lien holder and placed the Belfor Construction Services in this position. When Belfor called us to endorce this revised check we stated that we believed this was illegal as our mortgage bank wanted the pay outs to come through their office and for them to oversee construction process.
Our attorney Richard Sindell of Sindell & Associates in Seattle, Wa took time to review the case and it’s many complicated issues. He stated that this revised check would require a stop payment, which was done. Then the public adjuster needed to endorce the new check. The check lay around his office for several weeks before signing. Finally we were able in June 2007 to pick it up and we deposited it immediately in at the Wells Fargo Property Loss Dept. Then the Wells Fargo Home Mortgage bank studied our case. We complained to the Washington State Insurance Commission that Belfor Construction coerced us into signing a Waiver of Lien absolving them forever of the tremendous intimidation to our family of the biological threat of black mold and other dangerous mold substances created using their skill as water damage specialists.
My family assumed this to be deliberate as they did not tarp the roof of our home as promised in the bid, and they initiated procedures which flooring specialists told us were guaranteed to destroy the homes original flooring rather than protect them or facilitate repairs. This amounted to using OSB, a layer of plastic and brown Kraft paper so the mold would have something to feed upon. It worked like a dream for them! When we removed the OSB the floors had been subjected to additional moisture. We told WOIC we believed the techniques were a scam called “House Cooking” utilized by construction companies and adjusters to increase property damage and make home repairs more extensive. Then Belfor “bowed out” leaving us with a good deal of mold remediation, an insurance company that rejected even a $5000 pittance to assist in removing the mold, and a settlement that did not allow for the upwards of $65,000 remediation bill for a mold remediation companies bid. All this cost us a sizable amount of “out-of-pocket expence for professional advise, as well as services to the home that as you state has sat so badly neglected by those hired to “protect our investment” and to help to indemnify us, and to “Put Us Back Where We Belong.”
My husband, already exhausted from fire loss responsibilities, working overtime to pay two rents, and I set about the task of redeeming the home from destruction, as the Property Loss Dept. with held Belfor’s money and Belfor’s Legal Dept. drew up the paper work for us to sign to “let them off the hook forever,” all under the threat of biological warfare to my family. We had a clever public adjuster that appeared to be working with our attorney and ourselves on the content claim. He’d told us that of 300 cardboard boxes of our house contents, there were just 40 with salvagable goods. We went through them, and this was not the case. On one hand we had Farmers saying: You can’t sue us after one year. The public adjuster was abusive from the first week of his billing, writing letters for the insurance file to slander us as clients, stating we didn’t intend to pay his bill given to us at the end of August 2006.
The bill was paid to date by October 11, 2006. We did not pay Sound Loss & Claims fee on the depreciated amount as this was not paid out by Farmers yet and the attorney stated the fee was owed as Farmers paid the settlement out. While we felt that we were making progress in complying with the content claim portion of the loss, the Sound Loss & Claims wrote that they wanted the balance paid on our account. Farmers paid this out, plus an attorney balance though our attorney told us he was willing to wait till repairs were complete enough for us to refinance the Sound Loss & Claims, and other fire expenses which have cost us $100,000 or more. Farmers stating to us they were unable to pay us for damaged house content, as there was now an over-payment. When this talk stopped, you said our content had been restored. This is certainly contrary to testimony by Kathy of ServiceMasters who stated they’d primarily just moved the content.
When Sound Loss & Claims came on the scene Mr Griffith fired them for conduct he considered “dishonest.” This left storage sheds filled with moldy, sooty, fire suppressant damaged content which we were fore-warned by the mgr of the storage facility that when the insurance ran out, we’d have the burden of all this. It was only there for that long because our attorney instructed us to do an inventory for the purpose of a content claim which he was discussing with David Griffith of Sound Loss & Claims. It was unsanitary as well, with molding carpets, mold damaged books from our theological library, broken picture frames with broken glass, houseplants that absorbed smoke and spider mites in Servicemasters care. Stolen items from when the shed was broken into at end of May 2006, and we’d reported to police turned up at Servicemasters. But we were afraid to come and get them, for fear of jeopardizing the claim you’d paid out on, and we’d filed in “good faith.” Items at the cleaner still appeared “soiled,” or smelled of smoke. In addition to this, we’d requested not to have them professionally dry cleaned, but they were anyway and the check for a portion of this was given to David Griffith.
Finally about a year from the time Belfor performed the demolition of the interior, removing over $100,000 in plaster, though they’d promised to open just one wall, the Property Loss paid Belfor for their demolition work of the venetian plaster walls of the home. They’d quit in Spring 2007, stating that they were nevert paid. My family, already victimized by the fire loss, felt totally manipulated by the process instituted by the repair professionals. The public adjuster asked if we wanted to sell the home, and we said: Of course not! It’s the home in which we’ve lived and raised our children for nearly 20 years. In fact we stated that if forced to demolish the entire home, we’d retain possession of the property. We believe that much of the stalling around and preventing repairs was being manipulated in a multi-pronged effort to apply financial pressure to drive the house toward foreclosure when paying for two residences became difficult. My family also believed many of the procedures to be “punitive” because we’d both suffered a total loss fire loss and hired a public adjuster to represent us. The public adjuster also makes reference to this in one of his letters to Farmers Insurance Group.
Our family has submitted the necessary paperwork to the Wells Fargo Property Loss in Springfield, Ohio. At the time of the fire loss we were contacted by our mortgage company who stated that they reserved the right to oversee the construction process. As you can guess they have had more than their share to “oversee.” It took until July 2007 or later to obtain the ACV check through our attorney and to deposit it in the restricted escrow account. In December 2007 when Belfor released the lien, the char and water damaged roof could be demo-ed. This desire of Wells Fargo to control dispersion of repair funds and monitor the repair process, has of course, lengthened the process in numerous ways, since like you, they process claims for wildfires, hurricanes and more recently, the floods in Iowa. In our case, the contractors required documents have also been submitted and approved and as well as an exception which was approved by the Property Loss board on July 11, 2008 to get the funds to these contractors who are eager to complete the home repairs as soon as possible.
As of this date, we hope to have the fire loss repair project completed by January 2008, and deeply appreciate your patience in this matter. Wells Fargo Property Loss Dept. has been in communication with us, and indicates that the paperwork is in order now so that they can release funds to pay contractor deposits. For the first time since the loss, we feel the environment has been treated sufficiently for dangerous mold and fungus and when the roof goes on, will receive more attention prior to walls go in. From what we understand about Farmers fire damage repairs, walls that are still damp are coated with bin sealer. This would have not been sufficient. The public adjuster told us mold grows quite effectively through sealer. He stated black mold can grow through iron. So as you can see, although the process has been lengthened out, we could not have been comfortable with the more rapid procedures, which in no way guarantee peace of mind to a family that’s experienced a fire loss. We have a little girl we adopted as an infant and were very concerned for her safety as well as out grandsons ages 4 and 6 monthes. This letter hits the highlights and is not intended to be all inclusive. But outlines some of the serious issues that have prolonged the repair progress. It’s been a long and difficult process. We appreciate your kind understanding. Enclosing photo of Zani who is not getting any younger. At date of loss she was six and is now nine years old. But having a wonderful summer. She helps us with the yard at
That appears to be some Farmers Insurance employee as that is just a lot of nonsense.
Everyone with any common sense or past experience with any large claim knows that cannot be true.
Farmers goes around cheating their clients and you talk about hate. Has nothing to do with hate. If you look at any of the sites listing the bad faith insurance companies you will find Farmers at or close to the top of the list. The crooks that work for Farmers bring on most of the negative comments. Anyone with a problem at Farmers needs to immediately contact an attorney.
Farmers is corrupt and unethical in every sense of the word. The treat their policyholders like **** and they treat their employees worse. Management can stand in meetings and announce that they play favorites and the “golden children” get the lions share of budgeted raise money. They fabricate monthly numbers to push management’s undesireables out the door. Moron managers will even make fun of employees that are going through chemo treatment for cancer and laugh about it in meetings. They insist you work while on vacation if you have no plans of going away.Then when the issues are reported to upper management (DOUG ASHBRIDGE)they are completely ignored. In essence, Doug condones and encourages this corrupt behavior. Doug couldn’t find his fat *** with 2 hands and a map. No doubt, somebody’s waxing his bean. His statement in a Unit-wide meeting. Farmers SIU is the best and anybody here that doesn’t like it can leave. Corrupt moron ******* ****. Farmers Insurance, The ******* of the insurance industry.
it has been more than a month since i filed my claim and still no check which they have been promising to send ! cant talk to nobody no person answers n if by luck they do ! they will have to get someone to call me back. but of course noboby calls back . lighting hit my ac unit .and where i live it reaches to 105 degrees ! but they dont care . why did i pick this insurance company . what a bad choice .i didnt get my check but i did get a survey wow . i filled it out sent it back with no respose ! please some one help me. this is a emergency people depend on insurance companys in hard times not to make things 100 times harder!!!!!!thats why we pay every month just in case something happens ! but look at what we get ! but they cash my check every month for this insurance ! wtf
The only reason Farmers is paying up in Texas is because they\’re under a magnifying glass with TDI and they have half the number of customers they had 3 years ago. AND, they don\’t even write wind in the coast in Texas like State Farm and Allstate does. Of course it\’s going to go smoothly when you have a fifth of the number of claims as the rest of people. Duh.
A $1 million fine won\’t affect Farmers\’ Insurance. Of course, they\’ll use it as an excuse if their company gets into trouble in the next quarter or so, but, as it\’s been said, it\’s all \”smoke and mirrors\”. If they\’ve been up to this sort of crap as long as people say, then the fine should be ten or even fifty times as much as it was.
Gee what a surprise. I am only suprised since this has been going on for 25+ years
BB
I wonder, will any other insurance boards in any other state follow this example and \”find others and fine them\” for their poor claims service?
they should look into Farmers treatment of new applicants. and the way Farmers handle new business
no comapny is perfect…Farmers response to hurricane rita has been stellar. the new administration has not been at the helm very long, we certainly have seen improvements in texas. Ask anyone in Southast Texas who has paid quickly and with the least hassles; Farmers name will come up. Call me a homer, but my customers are super happy!
I want to write a comment about my experience with Farmers, and want to point out that there are good adjusters that look out for their clients. My adjuster James Jeanes from Texarkana AR , was an absolute sweetheart that went out of his way to help me with my claim. He met me at the storage facility in Queen City Texas, and was very helpful, and compassionate during our meeting. My things were ruined by an arsonist that started the fire, and I was very upset about losing so much two weeks before Christmas in 2008. He was a life-saver, and went above and beyond what was expected, and I am so glad that he was my adjuster. He is a wonderful , and very professional man ,and helped me get more than I expected. He was very courteous,and returned calls promptly, and helped me get through a very difficult loss, and I feel that he is a great asset for Farmer’s Insurance. Not everyone has a bad experience, and I am glad that he was there for me. There are some very nice people that work for Farmer’s , and he is one of the best ! Thanks Farmer’s for being a great company for me during my loss !
Folks, this is what the CA DOI is all about. The fines generated start at $5,000 per occurrence and can be doubled to $10,000 per occurrence if it is determined that it is a business practice (per type of occurrence.)
Based upon the size of the fine and the percentage of overall business written in CA by Farmers, this is a very small fine and was drastically reduced through negotiations. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
The next step is for the CA DOI to sum up all the $$$ generated by fines and present that information to the public and the state legislators, as it serves a dual purpose. It gives the consumers warm and fazzies, as the DOI is showing that they are taking money from the big, bad insurance carriers. Secondly, they can tell the lawmakers that they are generators of $$ to the state\’s treasury and they should get their budget request approved, so that they can go and generate additional income for the state.
SMOKE & MIRRORS!!!!!
This is not just another story folks. This company is in trouble. Knowing how Farmers operates, they\’ll have their stooges posting polite words here and will most likely introduce some new and wonderful discount for their policyholders tomorrow just like they did when Garamendi criticized them for their W/Comp rating. Farmers is proud of their slogan: \”We get you back to Court where you belong.\”
DM: You shd be proud to be a Farmers agent for the first forty years but not the last 10. Unfortunately you don\’t deal with claims so you really don\’t have a clue how horrible Farmers is these days. It took a class action for Farmers to stop using Collosus on first party claims and it took another class action to get Farmers to pay their adjusters overtime. You work for a company that was not bad before but is very bad now.
Most good consumer attorneys are trial attorneys, as am I. But not for various consumer groups, who have no money, and trial attorneys, who have a fraction of the money the insurance industry has at its disposal, the insurance industry and big business would have passed laws long ago preventing anyone but them access to the courts. I have represented enough right wing anti trial attorney Republicans here in Orange County, the home of the John Birch Society, who have come running to me for their insurance claims (after a carrier has denied it or lowballed them) against an insurance company who feel their claim is valid but no one else could possibly have a valid claim. Who is there to level the playing field and bail them out—yes, me a trial attorney. Chief hypocrite in point is Trent Lott who just hired a trial atty to file an action against his homeowners carrier for his Katrina damage. What a shock, a carrier denying a claim. I guess Bush is not going to be swinging on that porch swing anytime soon as he stated he would. How did Farmers adjusters get overtime pay here in California? Yes, by way of a trial attorney who filed a class action. Trial attorneys man the thin line that prevents a complete takover of the court system by big business (which by the way files more lawsuits than victims of accidents on a yearly basis). So tonight before you go to bed thank the good Lord for trial attorneys who allow you to live in the safest country in the world, with the most stable court system known to mankind (business cannot be transacted without a court system that allows grievances to be resolved in a non violent fashion—-think Iraq for the opposite system) and at the same time allow people like you to hire an attorney to protect your constitutional rights, be it the right to say your peace, carry a gun, rant about your own government or the right to have a jury of your peers find that a bllion dollar insurance company has violated its contract with you. Shakespear said \”kill all of the attorneys\”. He said it in the context that the government and moneyholders would need to do that in order to have the unfettered ability to establish whatever laws and procedures desired to maintain the power over the people. Fortunately that has not happened yet although the Chamber of Commerce and the Insurance Industry are sure making a run at it. So yes, I am a trial attorney and damn proud of it.
why is it I never read anything good about this company? Glad I decided not to go to work for them!
Okay Saint Chris, thanks for the entertaining comments. Leave it to a Trial Lawyer to change the subject and shift the focus all together. Your comments have nothing to do with basic premis of this article. I\’ll go to bed tonight thanking the Good Lord you live a couple thousand miles from me. Maybe read the article and try again…..
Your absolutely right. I did go off on a tangent. Getting back to the point, yes Farmers is a horrible carrier and its claims process is intended to prevent valid claims from being paid in a timely fashion, which is reflective of the fine it just received. As a last point, if an insurance company decides to not pay one of your claims (or a family member\’s claims) don\’t be a hypocrite like Trent Lott (or Rick Santorum Sen. from Penn. whose wife is suing a chiropractor for $500,000–he says she deserves it–even though the good Senator backs legislation that would cap general damages in malpractice cases at $250,000 for everyone else who I guess don\’t deserve anything over 250–) handle the claim by yourself. I am sure your friends at the insurance company will treat you fairly.
There is a reason the trial lawyer b-in-law of Sen. Lott DICK for a first name.
There are occassions when a trial lawyer is necessary, but, most often, it is the lawyer who is made whole… not the victim. Ramble on about how the free world owes the attorneys, blah, blah, blah. There are poor carriers and there are poor attorneys. I could go on and on and paint with a broad brush about plaintiff attorneys, but I know that would be painting just like you and I refuse to. It is amazing how I have been in claims for 25 years and I have attoneys call me for advice when they have a claim. I have been known to call a carrier on behalf of counsel or their friend, family member, etc… to resolve a pending issue with a claim. If I know that they are dealing with a carrier who is acting contrary to law or common decency, I recommend litigation! However, more times than not, the carrier is not screwing them, nor are they low balling, it is an interpretation of law and value or a misinterpretation of the contract… you know flood driven by wind should be a covered loss.
Let\’s agree to disagree, but you need to understand that WE did not select a career to screw the public, WE are good and decent people who work our a$$e$ off in an attempt to reach an amicable resolutiuon to some sort of catastrophe that has befallen someone, no matter how large, no matter how small. I LOVE what I do and I am damn good at it. I have had people who perpetrated a fraud prosecuted, filed complaints against attorneys, had adjusters arrested for defalcation, but I still get so much satisfaction by taking care of an insured by assisting, paying and educating. There are more of us out there with compassion, understanding, empathy and a zeal for our profession than you can imagine. Yeah, I guess I went off on a little tangent too, but it is painful to continually hear some attorney make disparaging remarks about ALL of us, when they only know about the exceptions, not the norm.
OK Insurer Executive! Time is past due to invest your money in your human resources and develop your peoples\’claims skills so claims are investigated and handled in accordance with established statutes, regulations, and case law. AND… let\’s not forget basic back to basics including people skills (effective listening, the development of the ability to display empathy and rapport and effective, concise, clear written and oral communication skills).
Remember who put the bread and butter on your dinner tables!
(PLEASE DON\’t POST REAL NAME OR PHONE #)
They fixed a claiments vehicle with out contact me or even trying to help me out. I am also going to issue a complaint to the DOI as I was not at fault for my accident and did not cause the damage to the other vehicle..
The problem is, Trent Lott didn\’t have flood insurance. And his trail lawyer is out for money, because we all know if he wins it\’ll have a devistating effect on the economy. It\’ll turn insurance into a social product. Which is what lawyers seem to not understand.
I have been with Farmers for 20 years+. I guess I need a new carrier…NOW.
Calfarm: You ARE a homer. I am a consumer attorney. Farmers and Allstate are the 2 worst insurance companies to deal with on claims in the State of California. It really started getting bad about 6 yrs ago. It does not matter if I rep their insured or a third party. The service is bad, the offers are lowball forcing constant litigation and most of the adjusters have incredibly poor attitudes. This is just the tip of the iceberg with Farmers. If the public knew the real deal, Farmers would get no new business. I know some good long time adjusters and they can\’t stand it. Farmers is letting most of them go under the guise of downsizing but they are just illegally getting rid of the older, expensive employees. I interviewed 2 former Farmer attorneys for a position I had open. They had 18 and 15 yrs service with Farmers respectively. They both got the axe with a 2 week warning. Neither could say anything good about the direction Farmers was heading. Lookout Calfarm you could be next.
They can\’t even convince new agents to come on board. The press on this failed company is very bad in California. The employees won\’t say publically how bad it really is. They\’re down over 20% PIF in 2004-2005. Wonder if Marty is smoking a Cohiba and laughing right now. Lucky Marty.
WE HAVE WIND COVERAGE ON ALL FARMERS HOA\’S IN TEXAS. THAT IS A FACT! pROBLEMS WITHT THE TDI HAVE BEEN RESOLVED FOR MORE THAN A YEAR…IT MUST BE FEAR OF LOSING BUSINESS TALKING
IS THATTHE COMPANY WHERE YOU HAVE THE TEN STEP PROGRAM WHEN YOU BUY INSURANCE
give me a break lets look at some real facts 350 claims over a 4yr. period when farmers processes 2.75 million a yr just in ca. alone ask any farmers policy holder today about farmers 24/7 help point claims service when the majority of claims today are reported they are contacted by a claims adjuster within 4hrs of reporting there claim show me any other carrier that has that kind of claims service i am prood to be a farmers agent for over 50yrs.
I, AS YOU, ARE AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR. I CHOOSE TO WORK FOR FARMERS AS AN AGENT. I HAVE MET PEOPLE WHO DID NOT CARE ABOUT CUSTOMERS PERIOD. BUT I HAVE ALSO SEEN DRAMATIC CHANGE IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION. I WANT MAKE A SWEEPING JUDGEMENT OF YOU, BUT DOES CONSUMER=TRIAL ATTORNEY!
Chris, are you suggesting that anytime a carrier denies, that a clmt should initiate litigation? Do you realize there are a multitude of reasons a carrier might deny a claim, and they rarely involve malice or bad faith? Problem is, just like the case involving Trent Lott, people don\’t take the time to understand their policy, what it covers and what is excluded. I agree with everything Jim said in his follow-up. Sounds like we work for similar minded carriers who treat their policyholders with dignity and respect, and treat clmts the same way we treat our own insds. Chris, you see the insurance industry only through your own little warped tunnel. Please don\’t paint the entire industry the way you have. The reputable side of the business truly desires to help all customers recover and get back on their feet. For what it\’s worth, I feel Trent Lott should be ashamed of himself. He is an embarrassment to Mississippi and America, and has not awaken to what he might do to the Mississippi economy if he succeeds in making carriers pay for something that was never intended to be covered.
NO, Farmers\’ DOESN\”T write wind on ALL their Texas HO-A policies. They exclude it in the coastal counties and they won\’t even write a policy WITHOUT wind in Galveston. You must have blinders on.
Ok, everyone has 24/7 claim service today. That\’s nothing new. Farmers was probably one of the last companies to offer that. They\’re so proud of the things they do for their customers when everyone else has already done them. And they\’re completely ignorant of that fact. At State Farm you get to talk to an adjuster immediately, so, I\’d call them better. At Geico and Progressive\’s websites, you can actually do online quote and buys. Farmers is a little behind on that, too. And Allstate introduced a separate hurricane deductible in Texas 7 years and. Farmers\’ district managers are making it seem like they invented it on their new Texas Family policy.
They\’re behind on the curve, plain and simple. They respond to the market, not innovate the market.
Don\’t get me started on their \”bonus\” program. Don\’t get me started on women agents either, because there are none.
http://www.badfaithinsurance.org/indexdetaillist.html
Jim, is a perfect example of most claims people i deal with at Farmers: fair, honest, compassionate. 99% of claims people do not start out trying to screw a customer. some errors do occur,work within the system, ask for supervision, or even another adjuster. If you follow these steps Farmers pays, everytime, gladly!
If I ask for another adjuster don’t you think they will retaliate? I have no faith or trust in these adjusters.
I am a single mother and feel they are trying to take advantage, My adjuster is so mean and rude to
me I am even afraid to talk to him.
i write and have written farmers HOA policy in orange, jefferson, chambers counties. All are considered coastal counties, or tier 1. we will write in tier 1 counties, but not to the waters edge. Galveston obviously falls in that category.
With wind excluded. At least the other companies haven\’t left Galveston high and dry and know how to properly apply the HO-140. Duh.
Lets ask Melinda how Farmers handles claims. She and Farmers are the one that got the whole Texas market screwed up in the first place by causing so much publicity.
This thread began by speaking of the well deserved fines given to Farmers, one of the worst 3 carriers in the United States. I only went off on the trial atty tangent b/c one of the contributors attempted to disparage trial attorneys as a group. For too long trial attys have taken the barbs and done nothing about it while allowing the industry to paint an inaccurate picture as to how we fit in the picture. I have friends I have made over the last 20 yrs who are adjusters who, like you, do it right. Those folks are becoming fewer as a new generation takes over. If I offended you by trying to paint too broad of a brush, I apologize.
we write wind in coastal or tier 1 counties. today and tomorrow and the next day. state farm does not, and allstate probably want tomorrow. Foremost, a Farmers company, does write with wind exclusion.
I understand why you wrote what you wrote, as your field is disparaged as much, if not more, than mine. I have disparaged, both verbally and through the written word, the trial lawyers. However, it is truly only directed at the pond-scum within your industry. The attorney for Sen. Lott performed a great deed in piercing the veil of impunity under which the tobacco industry operated, only to throw it all away by suing for flood damages and attempting to cripple my industry.
I will now get off of my high-horse and leave you with one last thing. If you ever have an issue wherein you need some assistance in determining if a carrier is operating in bad faith, attempting to low ball, or just acting the fool, please feel free to e-mail me at \”romanite@adelphia.net\” I will be more than happy to assist.
I believe the comment from Nancy and I recognize many of the names I read here today and can agree that I have not yet heard anything good about Farmer\’s; how they treat thier agents. employees, insureds and claimants. The fines are probably the result of some good negotiation. Anything good I hear sounds like someone from Farmers, not someone independent. I work for a middle size carrier which prides itself on good claims service. NAIC market conduct reviews make it a no-brainer. As for trial attorneys, I don\’t think they are the bane of the insurance industry but a necessary part of it because not all carriers are on the level or act with integrity and instead watch the bottom line. We are in the business of PAYING losses, not lining our pockets. Bad carriers make trial attorneys necessary. Farmers gets what it deserves…where there\’s smoke, there\’s surely fire!
AAA HAS SOME GREAT RATES MADE YOU GUYS SHOULD TRY THEM OUT!!!
In recognition of all the long, hard work of Agents during their time of difficluty, Farmers will be announcing a significant increase in commissions for Agents. It is their Agents who keep the company in business through successful sales of policies and excellent client relations. Of course, every company recognizes that, but Farmers will be the first to willingly and adequately compensate their loyal agents.
Farmers New Century Insurance Company is named along with Allstate Insurance Company, Hartford, Liberty Mutual and 13 other insurers…for consumer fraud, and other intentionally illegal actions.
http://www.femainfo.us/legal_actions_fraud_suit.shtml
I NEVER KNEW WORKING FOR A COMPANY DISQUALIFIED YOU FROM ACCURATELY COMMENTING ON IT. I HAVE BEEN AN AGENT FOR THREE YEARS, IHAVE SEEN THE WORST AND NOW I AM SEEING THE BEST, IN TEXAS. COMPANIES ARE ALLOWED TO CHANGE. FALLING MARKET SHARE IS USUALLY A GOOD FACTOR IN CHANGE, AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPEN TO FARMERS. WE ARE NOT PERFECT, BUT YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. I WISH ALL OF YOU COULD SEE THE HARD WORK IN TEXAS, TAKING CARE OF CUSTOMERS AND EMPLOYEES. THINGS ARE BETTER HERE. THANKS
In my opinion, if coming into someone\’s home with an arrogant and dismissive attitude towards an insured client / Hurricane Rita loss claimant is considered \’great service\’, then Farmers gives excellent service.
In Texas.
rogerpoegc@yahoo.com
Carl Farm — here\’s my story:
On 12/19/05, I had a fire in my 3000 sq ft custom built home. There was actual fire and water damage to 800 sq ft, including my home office, master bedroom, master bath and 2 large walk in closets. The smoke damage throughout the rest of the house was extensive and Farmers approved and deem it neccessary to hire a fire & water restoration company to remove and clean all my household belongs at thier offsight facility. They took everything that was cleanable from \”beenie babies\” to the refrigerator. The resorations company\’s bill now stands at $55000.
I have hired a contractor with 20 years of experience in fire restoration to do the structral work. My contractor\’s estimate stands at $96000. Farmers assigned my claim to a \”newbie\” inexperienced adjuster. He has meet with my contractor and the estimate was gone through line by line. As of Friday, 1/27/06, my adjuster has approved only $44000 (up from the initial of $38000). On the adjuster\’s lastest…he failed to include little things such as a permit (required in Harris Co., TX) or got things totally wrong such as the windows to replace…he listed those a \”single hung\” when they are \”horizonal, storm window\”. Let me look at one room… my son\’s. Farmers agrees that the heat from the A/C vent damaged the ceiling to the extent that the ceil needs to be replaced, seeled and get 2 coats of paint. Farmers agrees that the 3 walls without wallpaper be cleaned, sealed and get 2 coats of paint. Farmers allows for the cleaning ONLY of the wallpapered wall, doors, doorfacing, baseboards and window skirt. Well, it just doesn\’t make common sense to me that if the ceiling needs to be replace and 3 of the 4 walls get \”clean, seal and paint\” treatment that the wallpaper and woodwork can be just cleaned.
With every letter attached to any and all communications with Farmers, I get reminded that Farmers has only approved my temporary housing through 3/29/05 and any additional must be approved in advance. Every letter, excused my contractor of causing delay in the repair of my home. Verbally, my adjuster has suggested that if my contractor can\’t do the job for what Farmers is willing to pay \”prehaps another contractor can\”. These letters and communications verge on intimadation, to say the least.
After carefully reveiwing the adjuster\’s last estimate, I called and spoke with his superior. I address a few of my concerns with him and he had, in fact, reveiwed the lastest estimate and it was in order. However, I brought it to attention that flooring has yet to be addressed by Farmers and is included in my contractor\’s estimate. I asked him to assign an adjuster to my claim with more experience that the current one…he refused stating \”your claim has been assigned to this office and that is where it is going to stay.\” I asked him what Farmers considers a \”large loss\” claim, he retorted, \”What do you consider a large loss?\” My response, \”Do not patronize me.\” He never answered the question. I know that my claim is being handle according to my adjuster as a \”mid loss\” claim. The supervisor suggested that the quickest way to resolve the difference between Farmers and my contractor would be the appraisal process. Then, he changed his tune and has agreed to personally come and meet with my contractor at my home to go over the estimate before going to appraisal. I am looking forward to the meeting….
One more comment….my agent: Not once has he called or contacted me with regard to the fire….even though he is being \”cc\”ed on all correspondence. Great service considering he has written the policies on 4 autos and 2 homes including the flood policies, and…lol…keeps trying to sale me life policies.
So, Carl…..will you answer the question, \”What does Farmers consider a \”large loss\”? At what dollar amount, should the claim be re-assigned from \”mid loss\” to \”large loss\”? You seem to be so pro-Farmers, surely you can answer the question.
I welcome, any and all, comments from all readers.
Just call me \”getting frustrated in Houston\”…..Djean
You are all freaking me out. I\’ve been a Farmer\’s agent for about 10 months. And I\’m female. I have a few thoughts on all the comments I read attached to the fine article.
1)Farmers was bought out by Zurich some 6 or 7 years ago, I believe, and I\’ve heard that the takeover has been hard on the company staff (CSRs, Claims Adjustors, etc) with all the typical crap that large takeovers have such as dumping the better payed, more experienced.
2) I thought I just heard that Farmers claims just got rated #1 by whoever it is that does that.
3) I can\’t tell if Zurich has good intentions or bad towards the operation of Farmers.
4) Insurance companies in general are like casinos, not like a govmt social program. By that I mean that the house has to make a profit or they go out of business. Both casinos and insurance cos hedge their bets– and the ins cos do that by restricting their coverages and geographical areas they cover. They can\’t cover all things for all people in all places without charging way more than anyone can or will pay without going bankrupt. So, like the one person said, agents need to educate their clients on what they\’re buying.
5) I was a claims adjustor for Nationwide in the mid 80s, and I worked pending claims which were claims left over from adjustors who quit or got fired. They were messes. Insureds who hadn\’t been contacted a year since the claim had been reported, quite a few fraudulent claims including a woman who had 6 slip and falls in malls w/i 1 yr. I also was an office mgr for a State Farm agent in the early 80s and saw insureds upset with their claims handling there as well. My point being that the policies: contracts are all pretty similar, but some claims adjustors are good (same w/their supervisors) and some aren\’t, and insureds don\’t know what they\’re covered for.
6) I\’ve spoken to other trial attorneys who have told me that Farmers was one of the better cos to deal with. So, I don\’t know what to believe about that issue.
7) Agent Treatment: I don\’t have anything to compare with on this. They sure make the agent pay for everything, but I\’ve heard that you have to have $50K to start up as a State Farm agent. I wasn\’t told what a financial drain starting an agency would be, and I had no small business background so I was completely naive about the whole thing. Thank God for the bank of Mom & Dad. And Farmer\’s training sucks.
One big benefit of being a Farmer\’s agent is Not Being Exclusive. But I still haven\’t found a brokerage firm that has their sh** together yet, either.
8) Comparing Farmers to AAA, Progressive, etc.: I\’ve heard from AAA writers that they get very poorly paid. I think that having an agent as opposed to a web-site or 800# is a huge asset for the insured. Farmers does train their agents to get to know their insureds and to try to make sure they (insured) are educated on what their buying and that they have the best coverage they can afford with the least possible gaps. I think that\’s a good thing for the insured. You don\’t get that without an agent, from what I\’ve seen. But it does take a good agent, and they aren\’t all good.
9) Last comment (thank God): I try to be a person of integrity and if I find that Farmers screws people, I\’ll quit. The corporate BS I\’m continually subjected to says no, but I\’ll make my own judgement on that. I can read a contract and the courts can interpret them and then the ins cos can rewrite them so they don\’t go broke. So, we\’ll see. I hope Farmers is trying to be a good company, and if not a corporate example or an innovator in the business, at least act at the level of the status quo good faith.
Too much to read, but #2 stood out…..NO WAY! I\’m sure you guys are #1 in claims in your own mind, but I don\’t think you\’re even in the top 10 by any reputable publications. Their overall claims service is worse than most sub-standard carriers. Djean summed it all up nicely in the post before yours. My advice to you, stayed involved in your customer\’s claims when necessary. While they don\’t like it, claim handlers will usually step it up when the agent becomes involved.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Consumer Reports rated Farmers Insurance \”Worst\”, see site below for details:
=======================================
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/
=======================================
You haven\’t seen anything til you have seen this web site. Farmers Insurance is a bad faith low balling cheap skate company!!
FarmersInsuranceGroupSucks.com
Thanks, I haven\’t gotten to that step but haven\’t forgotten it as an option either. Tomorrow morning is the big day…meeting at my burnt home with adjuster, his supervisor, my Farmers agent and my contractor….we\’ll see how it goes. I spent an hour with my agent (of course, I went to him not the other way around). He seemed to think I was right on serveral points, asked to be at the meeting….what the heck the more the merry…at least he understood the difference between a \”single hung\” and \”double, horizonal hung, storm window\”…small step for mankind (or at least my claim). I think I\’ll ask if anyone objects to my taping the whole thing..lol. Wish me luck.
chris, try going to yahoo and typing in (insurance company) claims, you will be amazed. there are pages upon page about state farm, and pages and pages about allstate, and a few pages about farmers. you can find disgruntled people with any companies claims. that whole jd power thing has got to be eating you up. to think Farmers customers are actually satisfied.
djean, i will be happy to help with your claim. i will in clude my email address, if you email your policy number or name and phone number I will go to work for you tomorrow. chatch@farmersagent.com
I haven\’t been with Farmers long, but you can spell-check the book I wrote yesterday.
New Farmers agent: Quit now! The Zurich takeover turned Farmers from a decent carrier to one of the worst three along with Allstate and Mercury here in California. I can give you a long list of adjusters and attorneys who were in the long time employ of Farmers who have been unceremoniously fired in the last 18 months while other younger (read cheaper) employees are taking their place. Not one former employee has anything good to say about the company and these are people who have been with Farmers for 15-20 years. Horrible Insurance Company that does screw its insureds, third party claimants and its own employees.
I would like to say, that your points are true to fact. Insurance is like gambleing and they have to make money. I work for Farmers at the HelpPoint and I hear all sides. I will say that we do have a problem with settling claims. But over the last few years it has gotten better. It was JD Power and Associates that just rated Farmers. So yes Farmers does have a very good rating. Please you everyone has to look at population in CA vs the rest of the CA. CA is famerms home state, Farmers writes alot of business there Texas being the 2nd biggest state, but it writes busines in about 45 other states too. Zurich does not control Farmers. Zurich lets Farmers do it\’s own thing, Like Zurich does with its other 200 companies. People need to relize that here in MO other BIG named Insurances like State Farm and Allstate get violations. I just something in the mail about my Liberty Mutual getting introuble with compliance laws. IT\”S NOT JUST FARMERS>>>> ITS EVERY INSURANCE COMPANY IN AMERICA!!!!!!
I have been a Farmers Agent for 18 years.I am giving my notice.I took care of a client that was in an accident.He has been with me for over 15 years.He came into my office and when he left he pointed to me and said \”YOU are the ONLY good thing about Farmers\”.Too bad I hear this too often and it is time to leave.
I have been a Farmers Agent for 18 years.I am giving my notice.I took care of a client that was in an accident.He has been with me for over 15 years.He came into my office and when he left he pointed to me and said \”YOU are the ONLY good thing about Farmers\”.Too bad I hear this too often and it is time to leave.
In response to j.j, you are in denial about Farmers. They are not like any other carrier, they are substantially worse. Only 2 carriers have websites devoted to how poorly claims are handled, Allstate and Farmers, which are 2 of the 3 worst carriers here in California.
It\’s so sad that one of America\’s greatest business stories has come to this. One of the previous comments was right – it\’s just a numbers company now… dividends to the mother ship in another country etc…are the objective.
This only happens where there is an elected insurance commissioner. It\’s all politics, and the insurance industry is an easy target. It\’s just a place from which a wannabee politition can generate a lot of noise from as he moves up the political mountain. Problem is, he leaves a taint on all of us in the industry in the process.
File a complaint with your state\’s insurance bureau. — this always makes claims managers grit their teeth!
Settling a large homeowners claim in a fair manner is a complicated matter for any company or adjustor – but they shouldn\’t be treating you miserably during the process if you are practicing what I believe they call \”due diligence\”
Once they get rid of their top-heavy \”sales\” managers and \”district\” managers, and once they go back and remember the old founders Tom Leavey and John Tyler, and how they started the company: by helping people. Today\’s bloated company has \”district\” managers grinding down agents and \”sales\” managers selling high-priced products that fewer and fewer people need. The press in California alone has driven them from third place down to eighth. The suits are so busy covering their own butts, they forgot who was paying the bills……and salaries. The founders are rotating in their graves.
If you are going to represent Farmers, then please use a spell-checker.
carlfarm – why can no one from your company spell?
The number of claims is the tip of the iceberg. The Dept. has a policy of not accepting complaints from individuals who have counsel. Its a horrible company. I deal with it daily. Read my prior posts on what it has done to long time adjusters and house counsel here in California.
Whats the book about? \”How to screw policy holders and get away with it\”?
And that is why they were just fined 1 million dollars because they give such fine service. Calfarm, you are in denial. Farmers continues to be one of the worst 3 carriers here in California. Maybe one day when they fire you for no good reason as they have a bunch of good folks out here, you will see the light. You can take a snipe at attorneys all you want, it still does take away from the fact you work for a horrible company. Your rationalization as to why you work for such a bad company is something you\’ll have to figure out.
I miss those days of competitive priced products, great claims service & decent agents. That\’s why after 14yrs I left and only wish them the best. I liken them now to the big oil companies posting huge profits & alienating the customer base.
\”Good timing,\” is what the old Farmers agents tell me now. Been independent for three years and made sure I left with about one-third of MY customers. No more DM hollering about lackluster sales (he still wonders why no new agents apply to Farmers) and no more weekly meetings where the topic is ALWAYS life insurance. The company has rotted from the top down. Just ask the drones in the service centers. They can smell it. My new hot carrier? Drive by Progressive. That company loves it\’s agents. Farmers could learn a lot from Progressive. What are they, up another 23% this year?
Come on people…..350 claims over a 3 year period & the complants were regarding delays is meaningless. Farmers gets that more than that many claims a day. Any companies name could have been pulled from the hat & their record would be pretty bad also.
\”The action covered approximately 1,000 violations of the California Insurance Code and Fair Claims Regulations covering the period from Jan. 2, 2002, through Aug. 8, 2004.\”
Let\’s not gloss it over folks. That\’s one verified consumer complaint per day. Garamendi said it best, \”Farmers sucks.\”
Here in MI a new FIG agent in a large outstate town was told, by a body shop owner, about 10 years ago \”Bar none, FIG is the best insurance company there is to deal with\” 8 years later he was told by the same owner that they were the absolute worst
If they didn\’t have a problem with claims why did they take all the adjustors to LA and tell them \”we do not want to pay a penny more or a penny less than we have to\”
this was back around 2000-2001. They went from overpaying on claims to not paying fairly or at a minimum making it such a hassle the customer would be upset. I hope they stay in business cus I still have a life policy with them!
I am down in Rita territory, and writing new homeowners with Farmers everyday. I don\’t know what all the fuss is about in California, but Farmers reputation from the claims handling here is excellent above any other company. I am writing policies from allstate, statefarm, ect.. Peaple here now know what an excellent company Farmers is, and you get what you pay for. Many people with other companies are still waiting on their first adjuster. Allstate is runing comercials stating they will get to everyone as soon as they can. So all you Farmers wana be\’s and former Farmers agent regreters keep your false statements to yourselves. Ask anyone in Southeast Texas which company is the best and your going to hear FARMERS!!!
Same here in New Mexico, Farmers Insurance reputation is good. By the way regarding an earlier comment, Farmers top Life producer for 2005 is from NM & is a female. We also have the top Fire producer for 2005. Sounds like CA needs to get their act together and quit dragging the good states down.
I\’ve heard more bad things than good here in Texas about Farmers. I\’m glad you guys handled all your Rita claims timely. It must be easy after you caused the Texas home market to collapse after botching Melinda Ballard\’s claim, then losing nearly 40% of your home customers. You\’re blind to the rest of the market, and if you worked outside of Farmers you\’d know that.
Besides, you go ahead and write those policies all day long. That\’s what got Farmers in trouble with the mold fiasco in the first place, the inabiltiy to manage the high risk you had. And, the FYI, Farmers rates in Texas aren\’t that good, especially for older homes, and your new \”power deductibles\” are a joke. Lets tell people we\’re cheaper but just give them a higher deductible. Nice job.
Farmers reputation from the claims handling is TERRIBLE in TEXAS! It is the WORST!! The public is just not aware of it and apparently neither are you. For instance take a look at the Texas 2004 Homeowners Complaint Index
2004 Homeowners Complaint Index
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/consumer/cphomeci.html
Farmer Insurance (combining its subsidiaries Farmers Insurance Exchange and Fire Insurance Exchange) has the MOST JUSTIFIED COMPLAINTS (114+95=209). The Complaint Index for each of those respectively are 2.78 and 1.87. Anything above 1.00 means more complaints than average. Of the three companies with the most justified complaints. Farmers Insurance has the WORST Complaint Index.
Farmers Insurance Sucks!
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/
what amazes me is you love to talk about the negative but you guys fail to mention the positive. You failed to mention the 2005 complaint numbers,probably because they were 1/3 of the amount we had in 2004. that was with a major hurricane damage, and 10 times the claims handled in 90 days. the complaints went down 2/3. nobody is perfect…our customer\’s recognize the commitment to resolve their claims quickly and fairly.
Can\’t remember the woman\’s name in Washington- Mary Muclahy?-anyway, Farmers treated her so fairly she wound up suing Farmers and fighting the case HERSELF and she won a $450,000 judgement against them. This was last October or November. Ask the Farmers agents in Washington how that went for them in the press. Ick.
Its been a couple of days since I wrote the e-mail on the 1st. Sorry I did not respond sooner, I\’ve been to busy writing homeowners policies. Getting Farmers back where it belongs is happening and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Complaint ratio\’s, Ballard\’s, whatever. All people know is Farmers Customers have money in hand, and others continue to wait or have been denied. If Farmers is such a bad company, then why did we issue ale checks without looking at the home to see if it was livable. Bad companies don\’t make decisions like that. Bad companies refuse to pay even when ordered to by regulatory entities. Yea allstate won in court in not paying the ale, but was it a good decision from a marketing stantpoint? Was it the right thing to due to their customers who could not get back home and where running out of money? They have been told for year they are in good hands. Is this allstate\’s stance? Every policy I take from them and others gives me the answer to these questions. If your not with Farmers then of course your not going to agree with me, but I do have the ability to recognize the good in other companies decisions when good decisions are made.
As a body shop here in Ohio I thought it was quite insulting when a woman from \”Farmers Insurance\” named Marie wanted my business for their commercial insurance for my shop. She said and I quote: if you change your insurance with us we will put you on our \”Preferred List\” as a vender. I thought to my self how lame can this be? I was insulted as a shop owner as to their method of trying to drum up business Oh, and by the way it seemed after she disscussed this with me she said I had to include our personal policy as well to get on the preferred list. Isn\’t this a crime, a bribe?
I think that everyone should walk a mile in everyone shoes and then stand in judgement. I have never heard no many negative, judgemental unhappy people in one place. If we all just do our job to the best of our ability we won\’t have the time to throw stones.
Wow just looking for a Farmers Group address (not mine) and came across this site. Amazing all the negativity here. I live in CA and have been covered by Farmers for the last 25 yrs. Both house and 3 cars. I have yet to have had a problem with them. 10 yrs ago we had a fire that did 60,000 damage (probably 150,000. at rates now) I was treated both fairly and professionally. They came right out moved us to the Residence Inn and rented us 2 suites that were about 100.00 a night for over 30 days then paid rent on a rental house for 6 months while our home was being rebuilt. Took all our belongings and had them professionally cleaned.Which cost over 50,000 alone. I was shocked when I saw the itemized sheet the cleaner delivered!! You are all entitled to your opinion, just as I am and I wanted to let people know that there are good in the Farmers Group. I for one won\’t be changing soon. I am not an agent, lawyer or involved in the insurance business at all. Just a satisfied customer
Ellyn: This thread was inititated by Farmers being fined 1 miiion dollars here in California for unfair claims practices. The Farmers we have in California is a horrible insurance company. It is horrible to its unsureds, third parties, its own employees and other insurance companies as is discussed in the preceding posts. When an insurance company is that bad, it deserves every stone that is thrown. In fact, those employees in the industry that handle claims fairly have an obligation to throw the stones so the behavior changes. One bad apple does spoil the barrel. Hopefully, this million dollar fine begins to get Farmers\’ attention. Farmers once was a good insurance company. At least here in California, it is no longer.
The Texas Department of Insurance Complaint Information for 2004 proves Farmers Insurance has the MOST JUSTIFIED COMPLAINTS!! (as stated in an earlier post) This is the latest data that is available on their web site:
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/consumer/cpportal.html
The 2005 complaint numbers you are referring to must be fiction; otherwise we expect to see a post of the URL of these 2005 complaint numbers. If you prefer not to post the complaint information then we will just assume you made those up, which is probably the case.
Farmers Insurance is the WORST or one of the WORST insurance companies around. Farmers Insurance is spiraling down out of control. On the one hand it pressures its State Offices, District Managers and Agents to SELL, SELL, SELL then on the other hand it gives incentives to its Adjusters to DENY CLAIM, LOW BALL, DENY CLAIM, LOWBALL. I don’t know how Farmers Insurance agents sleep at night after selling policies to people knowing full well how they are going to be treated when they file a claim. I don’t know how Adjusters sleep at night after low-balling insured and third parties. Farmers Insurance’s demise is at its own peril! The negative messages you see on this board are the cause of its own actions by mistreating its District Managers, Agents and Customers etc. Farmers Insurance is a bad faith low balling company. The crap they sell as insurance should actually be called “false sense of security”. Customers feel and think they are insured, but when a claim is filed, Farmers Insurance uses all its power and resources to lowball or deny the claim. Ethel Adam’s said it correctly when she stated, “\”This is everybody’s worst nightmare. You know you have insurance — you’ve paid for it — and you’ve got these massive injuries. Then to be told, ‘No, you don’t have coverage,’ it was like someone punched me in the stomach. It makes you physically ill.\”
Above you state, “our customer\’s recognize the commitment to resolve their claims quickly and fairly.” You tell that to those 209 Texans with justified complaints.
Tell that to Barbara Martin
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/122105_colossus15xx.html
Tell that to Ethel Adams:
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/etheladams.htm
Tell that to Mary Mulcahy
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002583855_mary26m.html
The truth of it is the public, customers, agents and employees are starting to actually wake up to the fact of how they are being treated by Farmers Insurance. Farmers Insurance is ruining peoples lives on its path to profitability. Lives both inside and outside of the company. This WILL catch up to them sooner or later unless things change.
Farmers Insurance Group SUCKS!!!
\”give me a break lets look at some real facts 350 claims over a 4yr. period when farmers processes 2.75 million a yr just in ca. alone ask any farmers policy holder today about farmers 24/7 help point claims service when the majority of claims today are reported they are contacted by a claims adjuster within 4hrs of reporting there claim show me any other carrier that has that kind of claims service i am prood to be a farmers agent for over 50yrs.\”
Can\’t spell. No punctuation. Would you buy from this guy?
your claim was 10 years ago; wonder how well you\’d be served if the same loss occurred today….
They need to look at Farmers claims in other states. Im dealing with a claim now where a policyholder of Farmers was at fault in a multiple car wreck in NC. There were 5 witnesses. Farmers has drug their feet paying the medical bills; its been almost 8 months now and they have paid nothing. Im now having problems getting the adjuster to even take or return my phone calls. Lawyers wont take it because the personal injuries were not severe. The NC Insurance Commissioners office has advised me to fine a formal complaint. But I want the bills paid now and I also want to get reinbursed for out of pocket expenses and lost wages. Anybody outside of CA having this type of problem??
LOL…someone sounds frustrated.
Hobby?….I already have a hobby maintainting this web site:
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/
There is ONE claim that I know of where Farmers Insurance paid a fair, or more than fair settlement to the claimant. You can read about it here:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3469490.html
\”John Hageman, Mark Toohey and Kevin Kelso all called me about this claim and wanted Mr. Nixon to be a friend of Farmers in the legislative session. Each one strongly suggested that an additional payment would be very helpful to the cause.\”
E-mail from Jim Daues (Vice President for Property Claims) to Adjuster Isabel Arnold in regards to Nixon’s (tort reform legislator) claim
Everyone on this board needs a life, hobby, something! I have had Farmers for 17 years and have been pleased. I work in an industry that deals with insurance companies on a daily basis and have always found them pleasant and professional. Those on here crying that there claim was not paid, read your policy. The attorney *****ing and moaning – what your commission check not high enough because you could not inflate an injury? THOSE THAT ***** ON HERE ARE LOSERS, plain and simple
So your experience with Farmers was great. You are an exception. In California, Farmers is known as a company who drags their policyholders in and out of court. They\’ve fallen hard and fast in California. DOI Chief Garamendi thinks they suck too.
It is a sad state of affairs with Farmers in California, the core products, particularly homeowners are simply not remotely competitive from a pricing standpoint not to mention when the dwelling limits are above 1,000,000 they will not even offer extended replacement cost coverage. Claims is poor, claims adjusters are bitter and the company feels the policy run off is due to agents? You just have to laugh or you would be bitter.
The hope is that Farmers persists with its insideous conduct here in California and it goes the way of the dinosaur. A company like that is a plague upon consumers and our society in general (and the Industry) and deserves to die off. As to those who currently are still enamored with Farmers, your day will come, Farmers will eventually screw you as well. When it does, you will look back on this chat site and say to yourself \”Geez if everybody is saying the same thing maybe next time I\’ll listen\” (even if you think the people giving you the advice are losers–as the earlier post indicated.)
Farmers has high homeowners prices in CA because they are one of 2 insurance companies that will insure homes in wildfire areas. That\’s where I sell H/Os for Farmers. State Farm won\’t sell, AAA won\’t sell, Allied non-renewed all its policies here, and on and on. If you\’re going to insure the areas prone to catastrophe you have to bring in enough premium to pay for the catastrophes.
As for consumer complaints, what percentage of those who complained had read their policy and knew what they bought? They\’re contracts! Doesn\’t anyone complain after their divorce about the terms of their pre-nup? I think they probably do, but Consumer Reports isn\’t doing a survey on them, are they.
It seems funny to me that all of you in the business complain about taking in premiums and paying less in claims when I know every one of you sells policies on the basis of a company\’s AM Best rating: which stands for— how much money the ins co has in the bank.
You sound like a bunch of socialists. Contract not fulfilled by both parties? Go to court.
What was consumer reports sample size? Why is everything on your site several years old? Why did the mayor of Beaumont TX state \”Farmers has done more for this city and state than anyone else\” after the hurricanes? Whyd did J.D. Power and associates give them their stamp of approval? Maybe it is because they do good things and assist others.
To the follow who said I will get screwed in the future, NO, I wont. I am knowledgeable enough to read and understand what a policy covers. I am smart enough to know if I need more coverage. I am intelligent enough to understand there are reasons why not everyone can be pleased after an accident. I am sure you will flame me for my thoughts, but that is fine as this is a \”gripe site.\” I just found it humerous that a group of people, who are obviously confused, complain about something it appears they have no understanding of in the first place. The majority of complaints are \”I did not get a rental car the day of the wreck,\” \”My car is not fixed yet\” or \”they low balled me on my injuries.\” PEOPLE, this is why you have insurance. If Farmers is not or was not your carrier, you have no room to complain, call your own company. Your policy states you must contact your insurance company after an accident and notify them. This is the reason you pay a premium, for protection. NO INSURANCE COMPANY will pay for repairs of a vehicle or a rental vehicle until liability is determined. Would you want your carrier to pay for someone else\’s damages if you did not think you were at fault? NO, you would want them to complete an investigation. Again, this is why you have insurance. If you are insured with Farmers and you were wronged you have a justified complaint and I would encourage you to speak out about it. I get the feeling half the people on this site, and the one about Allstate, and the one about State Farm, Progressive, Geico, and American Family are not insured with those companies. They are mad because they want them to pay for a benefit they have not paid premium for with investigating what happened. Just my own observation.
I apologize to those who have true complaints, I would encourage you to take the necessary steps to get them resolved! To everyone else, grow up and get a life. To the \”Webmaster\” I am not frustrated, I am actually amused with how one alter, change, and dress up a fact to for their own benefit. I hope you win an award for your site, it is clear you spent a lot of time on it….to bad the majority of it is fiction or quoted from people who provide you with half truths.
I hope you all have a nice day and I am sorry for the long response
E
E: Remember this thread started because of the article that confirmed Farmers just got fined $1,000,000 here in California for unfair claims practices involving ITS INSUREDS. Farmers is a horrible insurance company, at least as to how it handles claims in the State of California. It used to be a good carrier but alas no longer.
Farmers does have a good home product and no company anymore will roll the dice on homeowners underwriting. Farmers AM Best rating has been up and down.
Farmers was a good company…I think when the world got expensive and complicated they lagged behind…and then panicked. WHen they panicked they ruined lots of agents\’ lifes because they did not care whether the agents survived or not The company appeared to look the other way for
certain agents.
When the agents protested these changes they were told to get 6/63 and sell life insurance, shut down your office for a day and call everyone in your book for retention but don\’t open the door if they happen to walk in that day etc..
I wish you the best in your career and hope the company has got their stuff together so you can pay your mortgage and feed your family.
The fine is from California DOI. The violations occurred in California. The poor policyholders who complained are in California. The Company acknowledged the fine, just as they acknowledged their illegal treatment of their own employees (that case cost Farmers $40 million and tons of bad presshere in California). The Farmers agents in Texas have so quickly forgotten the mold litigation in their state that caused Farmers to lose another legal judgement and then withdraw from the Texas market. Yeah, Farmers is looking out for you. Farmers technology (Dashboard aka \”Trashboard\”) is an industry joke. Good luck at your next DM meeting. Keep those life apps coming.
I WAS AN ADJUSTER FOR 20 YEARS; FOR THE LAST 23.5 YEARS AN ATTORNEY. I PRESENTLY HAVE CLIENTS WITH A UM CLAIM. FOR 1 THE OFFERED $800, $1,600 & $3,OOO FOR THE OTHER 2 THEY DENIED THEIR CLAIMS. WE DISCOVERED THE RESPONAIBLE PARTY DID HAVE INSURANCE. WE SETTLED WITH THEIR CARRIER FOR $15,OOO FOR ONE CLIENT, $10,OOO FOR A SECOND CLIENT & $5,000 FOR THE OTHER WITHIN 1 WEEK. NOW WE ARE GOING TO SUE THE FARMERS INSURANCE GROUP FOR 1/10th OF 1% OF THEIR TOTAL ASSETS.
So what did a trial lawyer do to you that has you so upset? By the way did you know that two anti-Trial Lawyer Senators, Sen. Lott from La. and Sen. Santorum from Penn.just hired trial lawyers for Lott\’s insurance claim regarding Katrina and Santorum\’s wife\’s claim for chiropractic malpractice? (His wife is asking for $500,000 even though he is pushing national legislation capping it at $250,000–he rationalizes it by saying he has seen her suffering–fairly hypocritical but I digress) I guess when you need to fight an insurance company you need a trial attorney. So what did a trial attorney specifically do to you to get you so upset or are you just listening to the Industry propaganda?
Acknowledge, yes it appears they did – unlike the other carriers who paid fines for the same type of instances. CA DOI runs these types of inquiries yearly on ALL carries, it is a way to increase there budget. This is nothing new to the Mercury, progressive, Safeco, etc….
They acknowledged the bad treatment of their employees? Are you aware of what the case entailed? If not, let me help you out a minute. The case was over changing claims adjusters (ALL CLAIMS ADJUSTERS IN THE STATE) from salaried to hourly employees, the same as lets say a mill worker. This means they now have to work on time cards, which if you ever had to do this sucks. Those few employees caused an entire state to degrade the status of a profession. I would much rather work on a salary, pick my hours – have the ability to help customers when I wanted, and not be a on a time clock.
I guess now would be a good time to share information about myself. I am an independent adjuster who was worked with every major insurance company in this country. I hold licenses in every state and have seen how every insurance company operates in every part of the country. I would say, with the utmost certainty that Farmers is one of the better companies to have a claim with. If you would like justification read up on the recent tragedy on the Gulf Coast (I know because I was there for 120 days working for a different carrier that was providing lack luster service). Is Farmers disputing flood damage vs. wind damage like the other major carriers, NO. Were they the first in the area, YES. Did there adjusters weather the storm so they could deploy immediately, yes! Did the other carriers no, they arrived several days later. I am sure some on hear will say or think \”He is a corporate mouth piece for the insurance industry\” \”He has been brain washed to screw the people.\” No I wold beg to differ, I go out of my way to ensure people understand there coverage, policy, and settlement. Why because I care and truly want to see people get what they are entitled too. However, I do not like to see people complain because they were not put in a better situation then they were prior to the loss. You have coverage to place you back to your current status, not elevate you. Hell, as an IA I would benefit my giving you more money as I am paid on the amount of claims I settle (i.e., the bigger the check that I write the bigger the pay check I receive).
Finally, I will address the issue with TX Mold. Farmers did what the other carriers were about to do, pull out if the circumstances did not change. Prior to the new legislation insurance carriers were spending 20-50 cents more on every dollar in premium than they were collecting on Homeowners claims because of MOLD. If you have ever been to TX you know it is humid and everything will mold with time without proper care. How can ANY company stay in business when you spend that much more money than you take in? You cannot, it is impossible. The TX DOI realized they could not fund the state insurance with the current policy because they knew it was a loser. They, along with other insurance carriers, drafted a policy that would provide adequate coverage and in most cases reduced customers premium. The entire state of TX was being penalized by MOLD claims in there pocket books. Insuring for Mold in TX was like insuring against termites, if you do not do something to prevent it (humidifier) it would destroy home/property.
Thank you for your time and have a good day
You say, “Those few employees caused an entire state to degrade the status of a profession.” That’s a load of crap! Farmers Insurance is ruining people’s lives! Anyone and everyone who comes into contact with Farmers from employees, agents, adjusters and its customers are all complaining. I just received an email within the last week from an overworked Farmers Insurance adjuster. You can see it here:
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45
“Work on a salary and pick your hours?” Ha! You don’t pick your hours when you have 12 or 14 hours of work to do in a day. The adjusters took a stand and won! They are now paid overtime; this is GOOD for the employee. You can try and twist the words and situation, but when all is said and done, Farmers Insurance lost and on top of that \”Judge Jones further found that Farmer’s actions were willful and were not taken in good faith\”. Farmers Insurance Adjusters want to unionize, but Farmers Insurance won’t let them, so they can continue screwing them. Sounds a lot like Wal-Mart without all the publicity.
You say, “I would say, with the utmost certainty that Farmers is one of the better companies to have a claim with”. You are on another World! Farmers Insurance is the WORST to have a claim with!! I say that from first hand experience! Just ask Barbara Martin, Ethel Adams and the hundreds (if not thousands) of other victims who have to contact their State Insurance Commissioner because Farmers Insurance screwed them on a claim. Farmers Insurance is a low-balling, claim denying bad faith insurer.
Have a nice day and weekend!
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/
Webmaster, I am starting to see a common thread here – all these sites that are about Farmers are hosted /run by you to promote your site! How many different names on here are you? How many sites have you pimped your site on now? Is there an insurance company in America you like? I would like to know what alternative solution you have?
I think these are all run by a little man with a complex, you are probably hidding guns, food, and God knows what else in your basement because \”they\” are watching.
Did it ever occur to the adjuster who wrote you because they have Soo much going on is not organized and that is why they cannot get all of there work done? Did it ever occur to you they are lazy and should not work in the industry in the first place? Just a thought! You say this is good for the industry, do you work in it? I think I saw on your site somewhere that you are a computer programmer? How can you say what is good for employees of a particular line of business when you do not belong to it?
You say Farmers will not let them unionize? Last time I checked a company cannot keep employees from unionizing. How would you propose they are doing this? If people want to unionize they can and it is illegal for a company to stop them. Is this more propaganda?
I will not respond to any more comments as you will continue to believe what you believe and I will as well. I just do not understand how you comment on such a wide variety of information, with no background besides your claim and random emails you receive. By reading your site and the responses I have encountered you take everything presented to you on full face value, like an employee who emails and you tells you they have to much work, and then apply that to an entire company / line of business. Seams like a stretch to me.
I hope you have a great weekend .
You say, “Is there an insurance company in America you like? I would like to know what alternative solution you have?” If you had a brain and actually visited the web site you would see on the front page (if you scroll down a bit) I have a list of “Alternatives to Farmers Insurance”, but since you don’t have a brain I guess you missed it.
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/
You say, “You say this is good for the industry, do you work in it? I think I saw on your site somewhere that you are a computer programmer? How can you say what is good for employees of a particular line of business when you do not belong to it?” I hear it from employees of Farmers Insurance that’s how and observations. Do I have to be a Wal-mart employee to know that their employees need to unionize? It’s obvious. As obvious as I know that Farmers Insurance Sucks!
You say, “You say Farmers will not let them unionize? Last time I checked a company cannot keep employees from unionizing. How would you propose they are doing this? If people want to unionize they can and it is illegal for a company to stop them. Is this more propaganda?” What planet you living on?! Lets tell this “propaganda” to Wal-mart employees, “you all can unionize and Wal-mart can’t stop you!”, they will all laugh in your face! It may be illegal but companies have a way around that or we would not have a “union” issue at Wal-mart or Farmers Insurance.
You say, “I will not respond to any more comments as you will continue to believe what you believe and I will as well. ” Ah..great! You don’t have much to say anyway and what you do say you can\’t seem to back up. Farmers Insurance is a Bad Faith, Low-Balling, Claim Denying company. Farmers Insurance is the WORST company to have a claim with. I say this from EXPERIENCE. I had a claim with them.
http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/
Great! Now we have a PI lawyer spouting off about who knows what. Please crawl back under the rock from which you came. Hope Farmers ties you up in court for years. I\’m not a fan of Farmers, but I HATE PI attorneys more.
Farmers sucks, IS WHAT YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND. I was with Farmers for 22 years. I\’m still involved in claims; I work for a law firm on the plaintiff side.
All Farmers adjusters are now data entry imputers and nothing more. The turn over is rampant, around the country. All companies are seeing huge turnover. How the companies can afford this and try so many cases with or without house counsel is beyond me. Farmers turn over rate in WA State is unbelievable! 1 office I know of turned over 60% in 6 mo. That is a fact!
Why pay Millions for Colossus?
Why pay millions to house or outside counsel?
Why pay so much to train and then have the CR quit?
DE Novo everything just like Allstate?
Who is leading this Allstate? Hey All Fall in lock step w Allstate\’s business plan?
Well, I quit!
I\’m much more happy now. I\’ll be happier when Farmers and Allstate get what they deserve. Do you realize that Allstate routinely denies benefits under PIP? That they have changed their policy (unilaterally) to force insured’s to make their claims through litigation rather than an arbitration? They step into the shoes of the UM and defend the case (at great expense to their own insured’s). They just lay their largess against their own policy payers, and adopt a philosophy that the small firms don\’t have the resources to fight them. The house counsel hammers them (their own premium payers) into submission
Delay, delay, delay. I recently had a preemptive off on a cliam. I said ,\”How do you know what the claim is worth, we haved sent a demand?\” Turns out she evaluated the claim on the PIP info and IME\’s which should have been protected but not SAFECO.
The pendulem will swing. We\’re seeing more outside cousel refuseing to take files and are seeing turnover in the house counsel firms. Meantime, we wait for a big firm to take them to the table with Unfair pratices and bad faith.
What do you know anyway? Brian Murphy and Nancy what\’s her name are screwing the co. up. Nancy decided that the reserves were to low on PD and MD clams so she upped the amount reservered for those claims, leaving a lot less $ for BI claim reserves. So, now the adjuster has to jump through hoops just to put an appropriate reserve on a case. MASSIVE PAPAER WORK for a simple adjustment. STUPID
I realize I stated I would not respond to any more post but I just cannot resist. Webmaster, you are a song and dance machine, it is actually very funny.
You list alternatives on your website, but I see you slinging your propaganda on those as well. So what is it? Are they convienant choices when you want them to be?
You do not have to work in the industry, because employees tell you about it? ONCE AGAIN, BECAUSE YOU APPEAR TO BE SOMEWHAT SLOW, DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THEY WERE WORTHLESS EMPLOYEES OF THE INDUSTRY TO START WITH! Here is a thought, is it possible you make up stories and emails and then post them on your website as truth? I would bet so!
I cannot back up what I say? I WORK IN THE INDUSTRY. I have worked for FARMERS, STATE FARM, PROGRESSIVE, ALLSTATE, AAA, AMERICAN FAMILY, USAA, SAFECO, and MERCURY all across the country (which includes CA). I have first hand experience, which anyone with a BRAIN, would realize I am a little more experienced on the subject than a computer programmer with a complex.
You say you know from first hand experience, because you had a claim? Please share – first party, third party? Did they not pay for your trailer?
I will end my post with this: I AM MORE QUALIFIED THAN YOU TO SPEAK ON THE SUBJECT. I SPEAK MORE TRUTH THAN YOU CAN DREAM OF (BECAUSE MINE IS TRUTH AND YOURS IS PROPAGANDA). I do no have a Brain, a heart, and common sense to know your site (and all of your sites) are smoke and mirrors, nothing more.
I would say have a good weekend, but I am pretty sure you are not a happy person so I find it hard to believe you could accomplish this.
I\’m not angry Chris, I\’m actually a very happy person. I just don\’t like them. And let me clarify. I don\’t like the ambulance chasing kind like Harry Gaunt. I\’ve been in the business almost 30 years, 15 of which I spent handling Auto BI claims in a very large venue, and it tends to warp your attitude after a while. I have a lot of friends who are legit BI attys who do a great job and service for their clients. It\’s just for every legit BI atty, there\’s probably 10 scum bags.
I am aware of what Mr. Lott is trying to do through that Billy Bob lawyer of his. It\’s a joke. I had posted previously in another article that Lott should be ashamed of himself. He\’s an embarrassment to the State of Mississippi. I wasn\’t aware of Santorum\’s claim. What a joke!
DD its not a joke that Santorum and Lott retained attorneys but it highlights the lengths you have to go to get some semblence of justice while making most insurance claims. It is hard for me to believe that you have many friends who are BI attorneys yet still hate Trial Attorneys. Your experience has jaded you and not for the better. If all you hear all day long for 15 years is attorneys are bad, it is hard to ignore that propaganda. It is the chicken and egg theory: If Insurance companies were fair to claimants and paid them fair value for their claims, I would be out of a job. It will never happen though because carriers, like Farmers who was fined a measly 1 million dollars for claims practices that most reasonable people would find abhorent, will never change their nickle and dime mentality, which causes even anti trial atty politicians such as Lott and Santorum to each retain a trial attorney. In most professions you will find 10% of its members \”bad apples\”. Its no different with trial attorneys. However, to make a blanket statement that you hate all trial attorneys is not based on facts but emotions flamed by an Industry that does not like trial attys who hold their feet to the fire to pay claims in a reasonable and fair fashion. Can you imagine not having any checks and balances on the Insurance Industry? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Ours would be a scary country without trial attorneys. Whether you would admit that or not depends on how jaded you have become. In regards to Farmers, I have handled claims with over 200 carriers here in California and it is clear that Farmers is in the top 3 of bad carriers regarding claims. Most good attorneys here in California would agree with that assessment.
Webmaster,
Its obvious you have some deep problem with Farmers with all your websites ect…
Was your mold claim denied? You go ahead and stay with your current carrier until you have a claim. In the meantime find a new hobby, besides stewing over Farmers.
Re: Farmers Insurance Group et alia (Zurich?). I can testify to problems with claim adjustors;they dealt,in bad faith, misrepresenting,delaying,threatening and reducing my sister to tears when they demanded (not requested) that she accede to their evaluations of the value of her car and the possible cost of repairs. I was helping her to get the car repaired (it had suffered purely external damage due to a fender-bender for which she held no responsiblity.) If you replaced the front light the car would be entirely street-legal. The rear fender and the front fender were pushed in, but no other operational damage at all. The adjustors claim that since the estimate of repair costs is more than half the estimated value (by their valuation both times) the car qualifies as wreck which they will auction off. The other party was uninsured, making the company liable to pay for all of repairs, etc. The key to the pressure is the company\’s use of the category \’wreck\’ (entirely a financial figment of corporate policy) to effectively prevent the insuree from getting her car back and the repairs done. Their threat to classify a \’wreck\’ will make re-registration necessary (more expense to my sister!) As it stands she will not get her car back whether she agrees or not; she will lose all value in the car and you can imagine what her insurance rates will look like. The agents are using every device, pressure and not too transparent financial threat to force her to accept their evaluation. I should say the FIG claim adjustor referred the evalution to a company; he failed to clarify the evaluator was an employee of FIG, not the other company.
All in all, I have never met such a crew of pirates; this is, possibly, legal extortion. The bad faith exhibited by FIG agents in this case is certain and is despicable. This is the short version. My condolences to anyone insured by FIG/Zurich.
Hey AGENT, Farm Boy, why don\’t you get a REAL job and quit screwing customers out of their hard earned money?
Now where having a mature conversation. Don\’t step on those mold spores you could die. Get out of the house and live.
TL
I am glad that you quit FIG. What you state is probably true. It is an epidemic and one cure to this problem is for people to understand their rights and fight for them if necessary. Each state of this union has regulations that insurance companies must abide by when it comes to operating in that state. Those laws are made to protect the consumer. Unfortunatly most consumers do not even know these types of protections exist. Your claims rep, your agent or whoever are not going to tell you these laws exist because it is not in their best interest. The quickest cure would be for insurance reform instilling laws that would effectively stop and severly punish those companies for unfair practices. Lets face it. Most or all people do not understand their policies and most policies are written so that you need a Philadelphia Lawyer to decipher them for you. That is what insurance companies count on, the fact that you really don\’t know what coverage you have. They also count on the fact that you believe they work for your best interest when the truth is they work alone for themselves and the profit. Have you ever noticed the type of car your agent drives or the adjuster drives?
For those who do or are strong willed enough to fight against the wrong doing (lowballing, etc.) in the courts, the insurance company tries to delay the court process as best it can to break the plaintiffs bank or will power. And then when that doesn\’t work they want to settle.
The response from Mr. Poe to my initial post is also true. He points out that many insurance companies do in fact treat customers, when it comes to paying claims, far less than respectful. I have found some major insurance companies with less than good complaint ratios, but Farmers (aka as many other entities) continues to be at the top of the lists.
The point . . .protect yourself. Do not let the insurance companies roll over you.
The practices you describe by your adjuster were not because he was a \”newbie\”. This insurance company is noted very well for training their claims reps to do just what he did. This is SOP for this insurance company.
Two years ago our home was destroyed by fire. My experience mirrors your\’s exactly.The claims adjuster was sent in from another state (to make it more difficult to contact, would not respond to phone calls, would not respond to e-mails (the only time he did was to tell us that he could not type which by his inability to effectively communicate was proven beyond any doubt) and would not, as required in a timely fashion, submit to a arbitration. We took this to Federal Court for a non-binding arbitration and in front of a judge these FIG idiots and their lawyers defied the judge. That will prove to be fatal for them as we head off to a jury trial. This is all because FIG would not act in good faith.
The problem with Farmers is just not in California or Texas alone but all across the United States. A search of state by state insurance complaints puts Farmers at the very top or among top three in just about every state when it comes to consumer complaints. And, to boot, a company that operates under more than 60 names smacks of corruption. Why do they need so many names?
I don\’t know what most of the posts mean when they use the term \”agent\’, whether it is the person who sold them the policy or the agent handling their claim. But it has been rumored that Farmer\’s gives the selling agents kick-backs for funneling clients their way. If anyone out there reading this post think you may have been treated this way by your agent, contact your State Insurance reglation department and seek the advice from a well qualified lawyer.
For all of the people who are employed by Farmers and stick by their employer . . . it is good to take pride in what do. But for those of you who do have a conscience, it will eventually catch up to you and you will see what this company really is. For those of you who don\’t have a conscience, Farmers will soon enough put the screws to you too. If you are too foolish to understand this, just check the history of Farmers and their past employees. Espescially the ones who sued Farmers for not paying them what they deserved. That alone states volumes about the character of this company.
And about taking pride in what you do . . . there is no pride ii being a rep for Farmers.
My previous post was directed to Carl Farm when it should have been in support of a post by Djean. My apologies for any confusion and/or typos in my post.
We track insurer and adjuster conduct regarding suspected fraudulent / unfair claim handling and settlement practices.
We have compelling information gathered to date (3-4-2006) from around the nation, and would invite you to review part of the information at the following link–
http://www.femainfo.us/Links/Complaint.final.htm
As you will see the different parties being sued for fraudulent conduct, and other unfair claim settlement issues, include;
FARMERS NEW CENTURY INSURANCE COMPANY,
USAA GENERAL INDEMNITY COMPANY,
ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY,
HARTFORD FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY,
STATE FARM FIRE AND CASUALTY COMPANY,
TRAVELERS PROPERTY CASUALTY,
CORPORATION/TRAVELERS PROPERTY CASUALTY COMPANY OF AMERICA,
NATIONWIDE MUTUAL FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY,
OMAHA PROPERTY AND CASUALTY,
and other insurers, adjusters, FEMA-NFIP-WYO associates, claim estimating data management vendors, and many others, are named in the 2 Billion dollar (2003 Hurricane Isabel related) lawsuit.
Please feel free to contact us in regards to your own observations and research.
rogerpoegc@yahoo.com
I have entensive water damage to my home due to water line break while I was out of town. The adjuster told me he would not be there until friday it was sunday night. We had to leave our home because the Company Farmers had come in gutted my kitchen. We had to pay for our living expenses for 10 days before we recived a check. At a hotel 40 miles away w/ 2 kids 2/ dogs I moved my own belongings,Stored my belongs, I found my own rental, cleaned it, ( Farmers will pay landlord at the end of the month)who does that? So far contractor est are at 20, 25 thou. Farmers wants to pay me 13. The first check est was 6000.00, For replacement of all kitchen cabnets 2000.00 where the hell am I gonna find that!!! .40 cents to remove carpet!!! What can I do? I can’t afford a lawyer if I could I would just hand it over to them, but them Farmers depends on that don’t they?
After 22 years w Farmers claims….I quit! They no longer trust experienced reps.. They are into data procesing, plug the numbers in and the computer spits out a number. No more more \”experienced decision making. Period!
One of my ast claims was an injury claim for an MVA where the injured party was hispanic and spoke no english. The Farmers insured was drunk when he had the loss. With a qualified interpreter I met the young man who had over $4,500 in bills. I settled the claim on the spot for $8,500. I ws repremanded, put on probation and my 22 yeas of experience amounted to ZERO. My authority was reduced to $1,500 from $10,000. All Farmers want is BA or BS degreee newbies who can data entry and stay within the programs vlue range. Exceed it and you\’re gone.
Everyone has expectations in a claims experience the \”art\” of Claims handleing is to manage those expectations. Somewhere along the line the company decided that experience means nothing and only the data formulas were relied upon.
This is not a \”Farmers Problem\” now that I am on the plaintiff side, I see adjuster after adjuster quit or move to postons that no longer require the personal touch. IT\’S AN EPIDEMIC! All companies are seeing huge turnover. I can\’t tell you how many times I hav to change contacts in order to settle or at last try to settle a claim. Ridiculous. These carriers are in lock step with Allstte and Chubb and Progressive\’s busines plans. Using the same programs, the sae scorched earth policies. Defense lawyer relief fund
1 Million is nothing!. Some day an agressive plaintif attory is going to get something in the MULTI-BILLIONS. I guarantee it!
Then they\’ll miss all the experienced reps they chased out in exchange for youger, more computer literate, cheaper, lower benifit payments due to age. I could go on but I have a vested interest. After 22 years I have a pension I\’d like to use some day. Figure that??????????????
I have been reading the posts concerning JD Power ranking of Farmers. Some of those posts, obviously posted by Farmers\’ Reps, tout Farmers as receiving the JD Power stamp of approval. One even claimed that JD Power ranked Farmers as 1st??? So giving those comments the benefit of doubt, I went to JD Power web site to see the rankings for myself. No where does it rank Farmers as #1 and in reality, the new rankings that I viewed gave Farmers a less than average rating. But that I guess is good news for Farmers employees.
If any person wants to take the time, they can do a state by state search of the insurance complaints filed for a given year. Some have that info right on the web while other states ask you to file a FOIL application. You will find the amount of complaints filed against any given insurance company and of those complaints, which were viable. Viable meaning that they were presented to that state DOI in a way that would promote their investigations. In other words, if you did not articulate in your complaint the DOI could only investigate on what you documented. If what you wrote couldn\’t be substantiated you lose. This didn\’t mean that you weren\’t wronged by your insurance company, just that you couldn\’t prove it. And unfortunately, most people can not communicate in written form that well.
So having said that, when you look at the complaints state by state, look at the total amount of complaints filed against any given company and not just the ones that the states acted on. You\’re going to find a lot of complaints, but unfortunately most of those customer complaints belong to Farmers. I know, I researched them to present in court. Kansas, Texas (regardless of what Faremers Agents state on this website)and California are among the worst rankings for Farmers. And please, be aware that Farmers operates under several different names in different states. It is important to note this when trying to accumulate this figure.
Perhaps it is as some say that Farmers are trying to change their deceitful ways.
I think not . . . no I am sure they are not.
I just had a recent run in with Farmers again. This time when one of their insured backed into my car, left the scene of the accident after I told them that the law officials were on the way. It took the police two days to find them and when they did, it was noted that this lady had tried to cover the damage to her car. She was given a ticket and had to appear in court. Still Farmers refused to pay for the damages to my car. When I talked to the Help Point Claims rep that was handling the claim she went from being a rep to a litigation specialist! That was because after telling me they weren\’t going to cover the claim I told them I had the local police re-open the investigation, put together an accident reconstruction team to testify in court where I would sue them if necessary. The next day Farmers and their claims rep/litigation specialist called from Virginia to state that they were going to pay. That they had realized their insured was lying to them. This took around two months! And yes this was recent.
If farmers is trying to improve their immage this is a very bad way to do so.
I know that this is about 6 weeks after the posting but if djean is still having problems with the FIG adjuster, I suggest he get a Texas Proof of Loss form, fill it out for policy limits, sign it before a Notary Public (both Mr. and Mrs. if married and community property, then send it by regular mail with a proof of mailing to some FIG agent in Alaska or to the address on his policy jacket. These things are mailed to Home Offices all the time and get lost. If they can\’t find it in 91 days in order to reject it, he can then file suit to execute the properly sworn Proof.
You will find that most major insurance companies have fired or put out to pasture all of the experienced people so they are now run by the opposite. FIG, for example, has raided Progressive Insurance for their \”new\” management people for their Property Claims Division. To show how smart this is, All of these Progressive people only have experience in AUTO. If anybody reads Dilbert, that has to be inspired by Farmers!
The scenero above is not a pipe dream because a person did this to Allstate many years ago and was awarded policy limits on a moderate fire.
As far as the JD Powers thing is concerned, it is a lot of hype. On one hand Farmers wants to send out and receive perfect marks on their customer surveys. The poor adjuster has to write the estimate and then print the check and all of the correspondence in the car while twisted and an unnatural angle. If the adjuster does not do this, his files will be down graded (they are audited monthly). If they pay too much, they are also downgraded. The pressure and micro management is unreal.
If the adjuster comes up against a problem situation, there is no backing whatsoever from management. You are doomed on all sides.
Although I am an adjuster of very long standing, I would recommend to anyone who has a bad property claim with Farmers to either hire a good attorney or a Public Adjuster.
Are you an adjuster with Farmers?
After reading your description of what adjusters are subject to from their employers, I keep coming back to this question. If anyone with a moral conscience are subject to such working conditions or are forced to do something that is against their moral ethics (screw people out of their rightful claims money, put insureds through hell), why would you want to work in those types of jobs? In the most real terms, there is no excuse at all for adjusters to act this way on behalf of their employers other than that the adjusters moral ethics are just not existant or they enjoy making peoples\’lives a living hell, relagating the adjuster to less than human, a person who would turn on their own mothers for money. I know that if I were required to do those misdeeds I would be looking for employment in a different field elsewhere. In other words, what I am saying is that adjusters have a choice. It is they who make the decision to work under these conditions under those terms. These people are not being forced to do these kinds of actions, but doing them of their own free will making them culpable in any legal action against that insurer.
If adjusters truly feel the way you do and want to stay in this business, now is the time to join together, take a stand against the bad faith insurance companies/employers and bring back the respect to this industry that you say once existed.
Just recently with a State Farm adjuster, and two (ex-contractor\’s) Pilot Claim Service adjusters, who process claims for Allstate Insurance Company in the Beaumont Texas area affected by hurricane Rita, who are ALL now claiming that wind damage to shingles is not really damage.
The damage they are now disclaiming is affecting thousands of home and business owners. The damage they are disclaiming is where wind loads are so intense that the tar sealant bonds that attach one shingle to the shingle below it is lifted / broken and then wind carried debris debris collects under the shingles and DOES NOT allow shingles to thermally rebond again.
This form of wind / shingle damage is readily recognized by shingle manufacturing engineers, but until recently, now not recognized by Allstate or State Farm, at least in Texas.
I feel some insurers are intentionally defrauding their clients, and using ones like ex-contractors turned \”adjusters\” to add a veneer of ligitimacy to their claim assessment processes.
Sadly, their scheme will only play out for so long…When adjusters can earn $400.00 per day working for some con artists, they become the con\’s themselves…
Al–and Anyone Else…
I received word yesterday, from a General Contractor in Florida, that the same irrational denial of shingle wind damage is being perpetuated in Florida (3-15-2006).
I wonder how underwritting investors, insurance regulators, and the feds, are going to react when they catch wind of such \”fair and reasonable\” indemnification practices being perpetuated nationwide…
rogerpoegc@yahoo.com
Complain to the State Board of Insurance. Tell the TDI that your company is making you file sut to get your money. If the insurance company has made any payment on the roof, send a letter demanding Appraisal under the provisions of the policy. Send in a Sworn Proof of Loss for the policy limits. Complain to the BBB. File suit under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act.
Send letters to everyone, including your state rep and senator.
DRIVE THEM NUTS!
You write like a lawyer or doctor, or just a well educated claimant. You obviously know what you are talking about, so I can\’t believe you are serious; however, if you are, you simply need a good lawyer. Too many other details left out of your scenario, like the amount of your specials, proof of future economic loss (wages), venue, etc.
does anyone out there know what $ I oughta\’ ask for and would be willing to help me in the settlement process? I was rear-ended by a woman who was clearly at fault and was cited for her actions and was insured by Farmers Insurance. Everything I am about to share with you is documented by Dr\’s and hospitals and my journal. I have pre-existing conditions that were exacerbated from the accident. The \’invisible\’ symptoms include MS, Depression, inability to take medication (I get worse), a suicide attempt, and the physical symptoms include a disc protrusion in my neck, brachial radiculopathy, ongoing nerve pain that radiates from the disc up into my head and down into my left arm and hand. I was on a (documented) career path that has ended with the doctor\’s recommendation. People with MS don\’t learn and make changes easily. I get one shot at the settlement and I am not a wallflower. To the contrary, I am quite a whistle blower and the ridiculous low-ball offer that Farmer\’s Insurance has offered me is an insult. Ideas?
I am well-educated and well-versed in what I am familiar with. What I don\’t know is what I would like help with. I think I may be entitled to more $ than I or other\’s who I\’ve talked to are aware of. And, it\’s a matter of principle – I\’m an \”Erin Brockovich\” type and it infuriates me that companies, such as Farmer\’s Insurance, who happen to know how the game is played and have legal teams to protect their finances rip-off folks with less $ and are less educated and don\’t have the backbone to stand up to them. Belive me, this is no joke and you might not think I need any help, but if I do, then I do.
Again, you need to seek out a good and reputable lawyer. It doesn\’t matter what you ask for or how loud you scream, you will likely not get what you feel you are entitled to by attempting to negotiate this matter on your own. They will not take you seriously until you file your suit and the depositions begin. Only then will they realize the seriousness of your case. You can file complaints with Farmer\’s executive office, with your State\’s DOI, and even call the news media, but you will only be delaying the inevitable. I have 28 years experience in the claims field and personal injuries and lawsuits in particular. Trust me, you need to allow your actions to speak louder than your words.
Good Luck Rebecca!
I think I saw a movie in the early 80\’s with Paul Newman(sp) One statement made was that \”In America you have a CHANCE at justice\” but you don\’t necessarily get it.
DO THE MATH. Farmers Insurance lost 20% of their PIF in the past 2 years, yet congratulated each other for a record profit year. Farmer\’s faithfuls where did the record profit come from, they lost 20% of their PIF and reduced premiums. It does not take Einstein to figure where the profit was derived. Management asked claims to reduce pay outs, if they didn\’t they were written up. The added benefit to this was the high turnover of experienced (they knew better) higher grade pay help. WOW! what luck cheap, inexperienced adjusters to deny claims (60%) turnover rate. Management is sooo smart they are arrogant, it worked lowering claims costs by not paying the claims in-full, and getting all your experienced higher paid adjusters to quit.This management has now decided to launch a new auto program, guess who they lo-balled this time, the AGENT. That\’s right beat the competition by cutting the agents auto commission by 30%, WOW, again it will increase there profits this year. I can not wait to see there next move. They have reduced their DM\’s percentage so much noone with any experience (brains)will take the job. WOW! that worked well DM\’s now make 50% less than 10 years ago. A DM;s job is to higher new talent, but in most cases THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN AN AGENT!YOU TELL ME! IS THIS SOUND MANAGEMENT? THE INDEPENDENT AGENT BEATS YOUR RATE, AND MAKES 100% MORE COMMISSION. This information is fact, and public information, do not kill the messenger.
Einstien . . . it sounds as if you were an agent or claims adjuster for FIG? I won\’t shoot the messanger if, as you say, all the info you posted here in your comment is a matter of Public Record. Where can I find this info? Web site?
Another class action (no class)against Farmers Insurance Group. It appears they were over-charging policyholders on their Easy Pay. I know you are going to say all insurance companies are doing this, and again Farmers Insurance just got caught, its not three strikes and your not out? No big deal!
When a house fire occurred at our home, the Farmers insurance company relocated us to a hotel. Then a meeting was set up with an out of state adjuster, our agent and us. At the meeting, where we were obviously in the \”courtship\” phase we were taken to a nice restaurant for lunch. But before the meal ended, the out of state agent began to grow more and more terse, openly stating the limits he\’d go on our \”large fire loss,\” which proved to be approx. $250,000.
We were given a packet of fire loss information, and informed that by law we could hire a Public Adjustor (nicknamed ambulance chaser with a chuckle from the out of state Farmers adjustr) and did not have to have the out of state Farmers adjuster. The packet included a list of the PA\’s clients. We called them, and the complaints from clients concerned a variety of insurance companies. The one which was incredible to me was a house fire to large home in which the insured\’s were offered $245,000 by Farmers for a $619,000 loss. This was just one scenario, in which Farmers would pocket the additional monies over the $245,000 in the policy needed by the homeowner for his loss. Others told of Farmers pocketing or trying to rip off insureds for varying amounts but usually $100,000 and up.
One Farmers trick is to say the insureds are guilty of arson. I interviewed at least two who had this played on them. One man had a rental that caught fire when he was at work and he was accused of arson. He had to hire attorneys etc and was cleared. If one is ever cleared of suspicion in documents or reports. The PA openly told at a meeting with contractors of a man he represented who was cleared and he thinks he was probably guilty! Right now in our area this has been played on a couple who are charged with arson, and are living in a tent in their back yard because they are told they have no right to claim living expenses. To get them into a hotel, their innocence must be proven through a lengthy investigation.
One unscrupulous Farmers Insurance practice is for the agent to offer his insureds a policy in either a lower economy premium amount or a higher amount. No other policy is offered. Thinking you are protecting yourself responsibly, you take the higher policy in the higher amount, such as 184,000 for the structure, and 128,000 for the content. What is not foreseen is that when disaster occurrs the agent discloses that the fine print reads you must be insured 100 % loan to value or you do not qualify for an additional 25 % which is crucial if your home needs to be rebuilt due to damage, because contractors don\’t work for free. You learn that you as insureds have liability for interior of walls and beams covered with sooty acidic stained beams which give forth fire odor when the home is warmed, or weather is damp. The only way to remove this smell is to gut the entire house, and this doesn\’t happen for this policy amount, without the additional 25 %. When you try to file your claim, you are told \”I\’m sorry but this is all the coverage you have.\” You cannot locate a contractor who will touch the case. They think it\’s a joke! Your structure cannot be rebuilt for that amount. Then the adjuster or agent play real estate agents circling like buzzards picking the victims bones to force you to \”sell\” your property to a builder. You have few options or alternatives at this point.
Repair with like kind and materials has it\’s limitations to your policy amount. We had an older home with lathe and plaster. When we got to finer points of our loss on this home over 100 years old, they wanted to replace original light fixtures with cheap new ones. Do they sell your originals to salvage yards for $$$?
While the PA states he now has our situation under control and the home will be rebuilt, it hasn\’t started yet. We feel ripped off that we were forced to hire a PA who charged 10% on the structure and even added charges of 10% of the fire damage cleaning peoples fees, so we owe him nearly $30,000 for his services. But there was no other way to recover the damages to make our home livable and be able to free ourselves of liability when we sell the home.
5214 South 2nd Avenue
Everett, Wa 98203-4113
As your loss claim progresses, additional damage can occur due to negligence on the part of professionals hired to assist. If you feel you have a basis, file a new claim, while your old one is still pending. An example would be water intrusion due to an improperly tarped or deteriorating tarped roof, which a contractor was supposed to repair but didn\’t, causing excessive water damage.
Or a contractor bids repairs, stating they\’d do an asbestos survey as part of the repairs, to check for asbestos is listed on the bid, together with an asbestos survey after the interior demolition is complete to see if there was contamination.
Be sure to check your construction bill to see if it lists a $25.00-$30.00 required by law. Asbestos tests are necessary and there\’s an extensive list of things which can containing asbestos, from popcorn ceilings, to old flooring to knob and tube wiring, to old chimney grout. Contractors additionally must perform or have done in addition to the asbestos test, a necessary asbestos \”survey\” which runs about $350-$400 because if the survey is omitted, this may indicate that proper procedures for dealing with abestos were not followed. By failing to obtain the survey it may show that they didn\’t want to be exposed as negligent in this. And if asbestos is in the air, and you or your family breathes it, this is a health hazard.
You can look in the Yellow Pages under asbestos, or mold and obtain testing cheaply in that case. I say this because there are claims for homes are not being pay by insurance companies using contractors to further insurance destroy them by stalling and letting them go moldy, or by asbestos contaminating them. You don\’t want your family made ill by either of these fraudulent procedures. By law they have to obtain these reports, and you can obtain these. Need help? Contact the Clean Air agency of your city.
If you are being continuously threatened that your living expense is running out, and if you don\’t mitigate repairs your living expense will be terminated, but they are stalling off on repairing your property using the funds you\’re entitled to under your policy coverage, do not procrastinate, but recognize this is a fraudulent move on their part.
Beware of the attempt of any insurance company to insurance destroy your home to avoid paying the claim. Contractors stalling and allowing mold growth. This age old contractor -adjuster scam is called \”House Cooking\” and variations of this are reported. I read a report of a guilty person who went to prison for this. Look up a search under house cooking on the internet. Contractors may try to drum up more business for themselves by worsening your damages to obtain more money. But an insurance company may also utilize this technique to avoid paying out your claim.
Lack of Professionalism
I experienced a lack of professionalism in my dealings with my district office. It took a couple of months for Scott to stop calling my girlfriend’s phone to reach me even though I told him many times to call my phone as I repeatedly provided my cell phone number. My training class was cancelled multiple times as I would show up to an empty room only to be told “I’m sorry. You didn’t get that e-mail?” I would also take it upon myself to set up one on one meetings with Scott. On a number of these meetings I showed up only to find Scott’s office empty. Farmers meets when they want to meet, it is not a mutually respectful relationship. When these meetings with Scott did occur, I went above and beyond what I was required to do. I set up agendas for the meetings, along with typed reports of my activities, their results, and other ideas I had for marketing. I stopped sharing this information when my ideas were spread around at a Monday morning meeting for all the other new agents. On another occasion we were told to purchase internet leads and we will be reimbursed. After many efforts to be reimbursed, compensation came a couple months later. Not everyone else was even reimbursed. A little bit of time after I turned career, Angela Joo sent me an e-mail asking for a form showing completion of my first set of Virtual University Career Courses. I had to question her as to what this was all about, for my district office failed to inform me that these were required. In order to complete these courses I needed a new Business Builder binder that correlated with these Virtual University Courses. I then was forced to ask Merrick for this binder and rush through these courses in a day to show completion to Angela. Gradually I became disillusioned to the idea of incorporating my district manager into the growth of my agency.
Scott wanted me to be career within 3 months of having my licenses. This is a business that needs to be set up, not a sales job. At sales jobs you are provided leads. From the instant I walked into the district office, emphasis was placed on becoming a Career agent. Emphasis should be placed on building all the intricacies of the business. I felt extremely rushed, as if I was working on Scott’s timetable and not mine. I went back to my paperwork to find that I had a year to progress to a Career agent, and to know that the pressure being applied to sell was undue. My Career Conversion was rushed. I got call saying to come in later that day because my meeting was the next day. This left me with not much time to prepare. I also had to produce many documents on incredibly short notice and was informed by Scott to just make the paperwork look good for Farmers standards (put whatever I had to put, basically, whether honest or not aka Financial Worksheet). He told me just to make sure the Financial Worksheet worked out. State Farm requires its new agents to have $30,000 plus dollars in the bank as a cushion until the agency made money. I suppose that the Financial Worksheet is similar in design, to see that the new agent has the capital to finance himself for a period of time. However, just making it look good basically nullifies the paper because it is fraudulent. Speaking of fraudulent business practices, Scott has paid for life insurance policies so agents can have their numbers to meet the Career requirements. According to the Insurance Code, if you give one person a free policy then you must give everyone a free insurance policy. This also put me in the position of trying to convince people to take a free life insurance policy that was not even desired. This is rebating and is illegal, unless Farmers gives everyone a free life insurance policy. I am not the only agent with whom this has occurred.
“Farmers has developed point of sale tools to facilitate the sales process so you can focus your attentions on the customers’ needs — not on complicated applications and forms.” This statement is from SRN 32-7561 which is a folder I was given to help sell the decision to become a Farmers agent. However, my experiences over the past year have led me to believe otherwise. In addition to focusing on clients’ needs, pressure is provided to be out selling, selling, and selling. I have been told that at this point in an agency’s life not much time is needed to service clients. However, the systems in place on the Agency Dashboard need much improvement. My clients have been subjected to an unacceptable level of customer service. Wrong billing occurs constantly. The paperwork that needs to be provided is something that I have seen all new agents struggle with. Policies are cancelled left and right. Some of my policies were cancelled just due to system errors when all of the necessary requirements had been provided on time. I have had rude phone calls to my clients. One person from Farmers argued with my client over the fact that his wife, a stay at home mom, was a commuter because she drove a child to school. All of this leads to phone calls from upset clients, who receive an abundant amount of unnecessary paperwork, which I can barely get explanations for when I call the service center. More importantly, it takes a great deal of time, contrary to the statements that servicing will not occupy a lot of my agency’s time.
How I was trained
There was an extreme discrepancy between the training that is described in the Business Builder book and what actually happened. Not much real training provided, just promises of training and help. “Go meet people. Schedule 15 per week, see 10, sell 3.” I was told quick lines to sell, not insurance knowledge. I was told how to make fake relationships by talking for a few minutes about family, entertainment, and a few other conversation points. If you do not know already how to establish meaningful relationships, you should not be in this job in the first place. I was directed to walk into realtors offices, set up open houses at apartments. I walked into these places pondering “I sure hope they don’t ask me insurance questions.” The sales points were that I will return phone calls because I am new and not too busy, not the real reason why people should buy from me: superior knowledge, service, and reliability (the latter two I can always provide, however, it takes training and learning to provide superior knowledge and advice). Most of my learning came from telephone calls to the service center. Furthermore, the direction that was received did not put me in positions to come in contact with the type of people I would be most successful dealing with. I was told be in business for myself, but not by myself. If I needed help, find an agent to help me and pay him half the commissions (that’s not support — that’s hired help). It is dog eat dog. You are just thrust out there and Farmers sees who survives.
How I would train
The first step I would do is have basic product knowledge be acquired independently. If questions are needed, have an easy access to answers. Much of this comes from licensing training and reading the manual. This is memorization. I would focus in my training classes not just on the theory, but applying the products to reality and which products suit which people. An integral part of the training process should be learning claims. This is what we are in business for. All I know is “Hey, call HelpPoint, I guess.” A trip should be taken down to the claims station to see what it is all about. How claims are settled should be learned. The Business Builder manual, if followed, would provide adequate training as far as products are concerned, however this is not followed in my district office.
The main motivation I have heard to sell life insurance is that it will bring in the most capital to a young agency. This may be true, however, the main motivation should be that life insurance is a right fit for a particular client. As far as marketing life insurance, I would suggest a new agent to familiarize himself with two or three specific life insurance products that they understand well. For me, this would be term insurance. New parents in their twenties do not have the money to pay for a permanent policy yet, but need protection. They are not likely to have an insurability issue in the relative future so hopefully there shouldn’t be any problem with converting the term to permanent down the road.
I would have new agents identify the demographics of their natural market and identify how to reach them. Rather than an umbrella approach, targeting whomever will do business with you, be specific in the types of people you approach. It should not be hard to devise ways to reach these people due to the fact that you are predisposed to coming in contact with them naturally. Farmers should know which particular demographics and segments of the population they are targeting for new business and bring in agents that can connect with these segments. This may take more time as hiring needs to be more selective and careful, but it is good underwriting practices that can be used in hiring, just as in finding business.
A good leader is in the trenches with his troops. I would never ask someone to do something that I have not done myself. I have been in multiple supervisory positions in my employment history and I question the aptitude of leadership provided by my district manager.
How I would Hire
I would analyze the data of which parts of the population Farmers could do a better job of attaining business. Whether this be the latino population, people within a certain age bracket, or however the data presents itself would dictate the type of agents needed. To reach the latino population, bring in latino agents. To reach people ages 25-35, bring in agents within that age range. Not only would this have to match, but the new agents must be ethical, moral, and personable people who would give Farmers a good reputation and already know how to establish real, lasting relationships with people. A company is only as good as the people who are working for it. Not a lot was asked about me during my interviewing process which is not good underwriting. By being more selective, the training resources would not be depleted by people who are not going to stick around and can be utilized more efficiently.
Right Way versus Wrong Way to Build a Business
There is a right way versus a wrong way to build a business. I desire preferred clients and would rather not waste my time with people whom I realize are not going to be around for the long haul. You can not always know this, but can come close. Telemarketing, door to door sales, and internet leads are a few of the wrong ways to grow your business. These methods do produce some sales, but with a low success rate considering the amount of people needed to be contacted in order to make a sale. Cold call does not fit with the models of prospecting for profitable business. When I look for a client I want a long term relationship and I also want profitable business. Agents are the eyes and ears of an insurance company and we make the first judgment over the insurability of a client. Many times these prospects are shoppers who chose you because you were 3 dollars cheaper. When Steve at State Farm is 50 cents cheaper than me at next renewal, my client is now Steve’s client. This just is not conducive to loyal customers. In addition, the underwriting process is a bit more complex because you are dealing with someone in which you have no background info. Something must replace these methods, however, because production does need to be made.
The right way to build an insurance business is to gain a reputation based on trustworthiness, a superior knowledge of insurance products, claims, and the industry as a whole, customer service above and beyond the call of duty, and giving back to the community. It takes time to build a reputation and I am fine with the fact that it takes longer. If this is truly my business then I should be able to progress at the rate that I desire. By doing right by people, by being ethical, moral, and knowledgeable, and having this reputation spread in a grassroots manner I believe will achieve greater long term success than cold selling techniques. Substitutes must be put in place of the cold selling techniques. The first step we all agree on is your natural market. Now ones natural market can spread beyond the people whom one knows, but the people with whom common bonds are shared, but not yet met. Referrals do not even have to be asked for as they will come naturally due to your exceptional reputation. Being social and out in the community brings business as well. The key, however, is not being pushy. Sales quotas force an agent to be desperate and this can be sensed by the public and I prefer to regard people as people, not numbers in a numbers game.
Farmers Does Not Get You Back Where You Belong
In late October I went camping for a weekend in the desert. I off-road and ride dirt bikes, which is a market that I feel I could have been extremely successful prospecting for ‘foremost’ policies, along with the rest of these peoples’ insurance business. The last night I was out in the desert I had an accident with the campfire. Flame shot at me and lit my jacket on fire. I was on fire for a decent amount of time and burned my left leg along with my genital areas. These were deep second degree burns and I spent a good part of a week in and out of the hospital. I left a message for Merrick Tarpey stating that I would not be in for the Monday meeting due to this unfortunate event. This message was even played for the other agents in the office. Luckily, my uncle, currently a profusionist, had been a nurse in a burn center years ago. Due to his presence and experience in dealing with burns I was able to go home each night, although it was a fight for the doctors wanted me to be an in-patient. My uncle also ruled out skin grafts believing I could heal on my own (which turned out to be true). I am only the second person to have the burn treatments (hydrotherapy, etc) as an outpatient in the history of UCI Burn Center. During this first week I received an e-mail from Janie Ortega, which I can supply, that stated “I hope everything is OK…but do you have new policies?” The last thing I needed to deal with was pressure from my work. I never heard from Scott until I sent an e-mail to Angela Joo in corporate. I had set up a MILK event and she was invited in to help by Scott. I explained to Angela what had happened to me and that I probably would not be able to attend the MILK event. She expressed concern and it was not until after this exchange that I heard from Scott via e-mail. By the time I was allowed out of the house, past the point of infection, it was the beginning to middle of December. The holidays were approaching and are a slow time for insurance sales. I had even been warned about this by Scott. So the holidays went by and I set myself out to start up my business again the first of the year. I have policies in force, but it almost presented itself as having to start all over again. I then received a bill instead of a paycheck, as I had missed my sales numbers. A letter came in the mail calling me a ‘minimum performer’ and threatening termination unless I caught up all my policies by the next quarter (which was almost halfway through). At this point I gave up. An insurance company is in business to provide support to their clients when an unexpected, terrible event occurs. This is in exchange for the premiums paid by the clients each month. When one of Farmers’ own went down in the worst experience of his life, Farmers jumped all over me and this made me question the motives behind Farmers and whether they would hold their word and help my clients in their times of need. I sent an e-mail to William Walruth and got a phony response from Scott. It just felt like Farmers was attempting to not be sued as opposed to actually caring and helping. The final straw came when I went into my office a couple weeks ago and found my desk emptied and all of my files and personal belongings thrown in the corner.
Lack of Full Disclosures and Discrepancies Between Talk and Action
From the start of my relationship with Farmers, there was a lack of disclosure. For example, I was told that office rent was free during your reserve agent status. Then it was $100 to keep a cubicle once you turned career or you could pay more for an office space. I got $100 dollar bills right away and this progressed to $600 plus once I turned career. There were secretary fees, kitchen fees, network fees. I could set up all of these for myself at my own location for a lot cheaper. On top of this, I was paying rent for an office that I did not have a key to for the longest time. Only when I realized everyone else had a key except for me is when I approached my district office personnel about obtaining a key. On top of this, you find out later that error and omission polices are over $300 dollars a month plus $50 for Farmers advertisements (which I have never seen or heard) and $10 a month for FEAPAC. So basically, the Career Conversion looks like a good deal and will provide support to a growing agency, but most of the subsidy is charged right back by Farmers. All kinds of support is promised, but you must pay for any help you receive.
Times Are Changing
Times are changing. I believe that the importance of a storefront is diminishing. People desire to spend as little time as possible on insurance. A departure from the agency model is occurring as companies are eliminating their agency force and internet companies like E-surance are gaining business. Such changes have occurred in the past. The original Farmers agents worked their previous job until they had enough policies in force to support their business and themselves, and often set up their office out of their house. Most of these agents were rural workers, living in an unstable insurance market. Such an arrangement today would be extremely beneficial. Today’s insurance market is flooded with agents and companies competing for business which yields a tough market, much as I would expect these rural agents experienced. Instead of subsidy, which basically takes away a new agent’s autonomy by tying sales quotas and attaching strings to the new agency, one would be better suited to work a part time job to bring in the revenue that subsidy provides. During my high school years I employed myself at the local Starbucks. During the course of my employment at Starbucks I established a plethora of relationships with customers. These customers had become accustomed to my superior customer service standards. I had lawyers and other professionals bringing me into their jobs to help me decide on the avenue I took in my professional life. Starbucks provided me with an exceptional networking mechanism, which could easily be turned into insurance policies. Meanwhile, one is making money while networking, rather than spending money to meet people.
The “Female Farmers Agent” said it best. When you do your best you will succeed. I am a recruiter and I take great care in those I choose. Not everyone is made for sales, not everyone is made to be an agent. If it was easy everyone would do it. It is hard to find someone that possesses the qualities I look for but when I do I make sure to let them know the good and the bad. We can lead the horses to the water but we CANNOT MAKE YOU DRINK!
I would never take someone that I did not think had the qualities and the potential to be a great agent. And as far as some of the neg. comments on our training are concerned every DM trains differently but we take our time to show and answer all questions prior to our new agents meeting with clients and when they need assistance with a presentation our DM goes with them and assists them in completing the presentation. WE DO NOT TAKE THE COMMISSIONS as so stated in one of the previous emails.
Lets face it you could type in any company and get negative feedback on them but I felt it was necessary to share this from my point of view.
Best of Luck and I hope that you all can release this negativity that will only hinder you in life. Let yourself move on. To hate something/someone takes so much energy.
WOW! where do you get your information. They never cut commissions by 30%. You need to get your facts straight before acting like you know what you’re talking about. Also, a lot of the DM’s have been agents for Farmers or even agents with other companies
who the hell is Farmers New Century Insurance Company…its not related to Farmers Insurance Group…here are the companies that are listed in the $2 Billion law suit…The insurance company defendants include Allstate, Harleysville Mutual, The Hartford, Liberty Mutual, Nationwide Mutual, State Farm, Travelers and USAA.
Farmers Easy Pay is one of the biggest rip-offs I have ever seen. Once they’ve locked on your bank accoutn you wind up with zero control of when they pull funds out- one month they may pull double… or triple… it’s a crap shoot!
and yes, I am a FORMER Farmers Agent…
Farmer’s took full responsibility for their insured who rear ended my wife. However, I am still trying to get them to tell me the limits of liability. We are at over $60k and counting for medical services alone.
Is there a way to force this or can they continue to ignore me. They also haven’t paid even the emergency room doc or ER x-rays. Had to have it paid out of my PIP to keep it from going to collections.
ask a lawyer who specializes in auto insurance in your state
call 1 800 farmers and complain
Insurance companies won’t disclose the limits, it’s not just Farmers. As a claimant insurance companies will usually only pay you a one time settlement for injuries. They won’t pay the bill as you get the bill. Ask for the adjustors supervisor if you need to &/or ask your own insurance agent to explain the process.
Ok, so please explain this. If we have already exceeded the limits with my wife’s treatment and today’s surgery and the Farmer’s insured doesn’t have the money to make up the difference then through no fault of my own I am going to owe for the medical treatment if it exceeds the sum of Farmer’s and my my own PIP? That means this idiot will cause me to either pay out of my own pocket or default on the medical bills and suffer the results?
Depending on the State you live in and if you have underinsured motorist coverage, if the Farmers policy limits run out & your PIP runs out you may be able to use your underinsured motorist coverage or if you have your own health insurance, coverage may be able to come from them. Your own agent should be able to explain this process to you.
To Our Farmers Insurance Group Adjuster:
We have received your fax dated July 20, 2008, and thank you for this request for an update on the progress being made regarding the repair of our home damaged by fire on May 1, 2006. Belfor Construction Services, a Farmers preferred contractor, and recommended highly by our public adjuster David L Griffith, and also the company Farmers hired to assist in determining the Scope of Loss, performed a significant amount of the interior demolition of the fire damage, and were still gathering up their sani-can and we were dealing with debris they should have dumped but failed to remove from the premises.
David Griffith brought the repair check over to expedite the payment of Belfor. However, on November 30, 2006 Belfor rejected this ACV check which Farmers paid out in August 2006 and we endorced in the presence of our public adjuster, David L Griffith of Sound Loss & Claims and which he turned over to them. In about February 2007, we received a telephone call from the Belfor Legal Dept. stating that it was their understanding that our the public adjuster of Sound Loss & Claims was having the check revised. As stated previously, this was because Belfor Construction Services wanted it revised, and had to go through the proper authority. This revision of the check complicated things, as Farmers then issued Belfor a revised check which omitted our banks name as first lien holder and placed the Belfor Construction Services in this position. When Belfor called us to endorce this revised check we stated that we believed this was illegal as our mortgage bank wanted the pay outs to come through their office and for them to oversee construction process.
Our attorney Richard Sindell of Sindell & Associates in Seattle, Wa took time to review the case and it’s many complicated issues. He stated that this revised check would require a stop payment, which was done. Then the public adjuster needed to endorce the new check. The check lay around his office for several weeks before signing. Finally we were able in June 2007 to pick it up and we deposited it immediately in at the Wells Fargo Property Loss Dept. Then the Wells Fargo Home Mortgage bank studied our case. We complained to the Washington State Insurance Commission that Belfor Construction coerced us into signing a Waiver of Lien absolving them forever of the tremendous intimidation to our family of the biological threat of black mold and other dangerous mold substances created using their skill as water damage specialists.
My family assumed this to be deliberate as they did not tarp the roof of our home as promised in the bid, and they initiated procedures which flooring specialists told us were guaranteed to destroy the homes original flooring rather than protect them or facilitate repairs. This amounted to using OSB, a layer of plastic and brown Kraft paper so the mold would have something to feed upon. It worked like a dream for them! When we removed the OSB the floors had been subjected to additional moisture. We told WOIC we believed the techniques were a scam called “House Cooking” utilized by construction companies and adjusters to increase property damage and make home repairs more extensive. Then Belfor “bowed out” leaving us with a good deal of mold remediation, an insurance company that rejected even a $5000 pittance to assist in removing the mold, and a settlement that did not allow for the upwards of $65,000 remediation bill for a mold remediation companies bid. All this cost us a sizable amount of “out-of-pocket expence for professional advise, as well as services to the home that as you state has sat so badly neglected by those hired to “protect our investment” and to help to indemnify us, and to “Put Us Back Where We Belong.”
My husband, already exhausted from fire loss responsibilities, working overtime to pay two rents, and I set about the task of redeeming the home from destruction, as the Property Loss Dept. with held Belfor’s money and Belfor’s Legal Dept. drew up the paper work for us to sign to “let them off the hook forever,” all under the threat of biological warfare to my family. We had a clever public adjuster that appeared to be working with our attorney and ourselves on the content claim. He’d told us that of 300 cardboard boxes of our house contents, there were just 40 with salvagable goods. We went through them, and this was not the case. On one hand we had Farmers saying: You can’t sue us after one year. The public adjuster was abusive from the first week of his billing, writing letters for the insurance file to slander us as clients, stating we didn’t intend to pay his bill given to us at the end of August 2006.
The bill was paid to date by October 11, 2006. We did not pay Sound Loss & Claims fee on the depreciated amount as this was not paid out by Farmers yet and the attorney stated the fee was owed as Farmers paid the settlement out. While we felt that we were making progress in complying with the content claim portion of the loss, the Sound Loss & Claims wrote that they wanted the balance paid on our account. Farmers paid this out, plus an attorney balance though our attorney told us he was willing to wait till repairs were complete enough for us to refinance the Sound Loss & Claims, and other fire expenses which have cost us $100,000 or more. Farmers stating to us they were unable to pay us for damaged house content, as there was now an over-payment. When this talk stopped, you said our content had been restored. This is certainly contrary to testimony by Kathy of ServiceMasters who stated they’d primarily just moved the content.
When Sound Loss & Claims came on the scene Mr Griffith fired them for conduct he considered “dishonest.” This left storage sheds filled with moldy, sooty, fire suppressant damaged content which we were fore-warned by the mgr of the storage facility that when the insurance ran out, we’d have the burden of all this. It was only there for that long because our attorney instructed us to do an inventory for the purpose of a content claim which he was discussing with David Griffith of Sound Loss & Claims. It was unsanitary as well, with molding carpets, mold damaged books from our theological library, broken picture frames with broken glass, houseplants that absorbed smoke and spider mites in Servicemasters care. Stolen items from when the shed was broken into at end of May 2006, and we’d reported to police turned up at Servicemasters. But we were afraid to come and get them, for fear of jeopardizing the claim you’d paid out on, and we’d filed in “good faith.” Items at the cleaner still appeared “soiled,” or smelled of smoke. In addition to this, we’d requested not to have them professionally dry cleaned, but they were anyway and the check for a portion of this was given to David Griffith.
Finally about a year from the time Belfor performed the demolition of the interior, removing over $100,000 in plaster, though they’d promised to open just one wall, the Property Loss paid Belfor for their demolition work of the venetian plaster walls of the home. They’d quit in Spring 2007, stating that they were nevert paid. My family, already victimized by the fire loss, felt totally manipulated by the process instituted by the repair professionals. The public adjuster asked if we wanted to sell the home, and we said: Of course not! It’s the home in which we’ve lived and raised our children for nearly 20 years. In fact we stated that if forced to demolish the entire home, we’d retain possession of the property. We believe that much of the stalling around and preventing repairs was being manipulated in a multi-pronged effort to apply financial pressure to drive the house toward foreclosure when paying for two residences became difficult. My family also believed many of the procedures to be “punitive” because we’d both suffered a total loss fire loss and hired a public adjuster to represent us. The public adjuster also makes reference to this in one of his letters to Farmers Insurance Group.
Our family has submitted the necessary paperwork to the Wells Fargo Property Loss in Springfield, Ohio. At the time of the fire loss we were contacted by our mortgage company who stated that they reserved the right to oversee the construction process. As you can guess they have had more than their share to “oversee.” It took until July 2007 or later to obtain the ACV check through our attorney and to deposit it in the restricted escrow account. In December 2007 when Belfor released the lien, the char and water damaged roof could be demo-ed. This desire of Wells Fargo to control dispersion of repair funds and monitor the repair process, has of course, lengthened the process in numerous ways, since like you, they process claims for wildfires, hurricanes and more recently, the floods in Iowa. In our case, the contractors required documents have also been submitted and approved and as well as an exception which was approved by the Property Loss board on July 11, 2008 to get the funds to these contractors who are eager to complete the home repairs as soon as possible.
As of this date, we hope to have the fire loss repair project completed by January 2008, and deeply appreciate your patience in this matter. Wells Fargo Property Loss Dept. has been in communication with us, and indicates that the paperwork is in order now so that they can release funds to pay contractor deposits. For the first time since the loss, we feel the environment has been treated sufficiently for dangerous mold and fungus and when the roof goes on, will receive more attention prior to walls go in. From what we understand about Farmers fire damage repairs, walls that are still damp are coated with bin sealer. This would have not been sufficient. The public adjuster told us mold grows quite effectively through sealer. He stated black mold can grow through iron. So as you can see, although the process has been lengthened out, we could not have been comfortable with the more rapid procedures, which in no way guarantee peace of mind to a family that’s experienced a fire loss. We have a little girl we adopted as an infant and were very concerned for her safety as well as out grandsons ages 4 and 6 monthes. This letter hits the highlights and is not intended to be all inclusive. But outlines some of the serious issues that have prolonged the repair progress. It’s been a long and difficult process. We appreciate your kind understanding. Enclosing photo of Zani who is not getting any younger. At date of loss she was six and is now nine years old. But having a wonderful summer. She helps us with the yard at
Alana M. Campbell
You should contact a personal injury attorney concerning bad faith.
http://www.badfaithinsurance.org
List of the top 50 good and top 50 bad.
Bet you can guess which one Farmers is listed on. Check out http://www.farmersinsurancesucks.com
Read the Ethel Adams Story.
Probably works for Farmers.
They are not wrong. It is hard to find companies that should rank below State Farm or All/State but Farmers is one that is at the bottom of the lot.
That appears to be some Farmers Insurance employee as that is just a lot of nonsense.
Everyone with any common sense or past experience with any large claim knows that cannot be true.
Just another Farmer’s employee spreading the usual BS.
I hope your lawyer rakes Farmers over he coals and gets you what you deserve.
Farmers goes around cheating their clients and you talk about hate. Has nothing to do with hate. If you look at any of the sites listing the bad faith insurance companies you will find Farmers at or close to the top of the list. The crooks that work for Farmers bring on most of the negative comments. Anyone with a problem at Farmers needs to immediately contact an attorney.
Farmers is corrupt and unethical in every sense of the word. The treat their policyholders like **** and they treat their employees worse. Management can stand in meetings and announce that they play favorites and the “golden children” get the lions share of budgeted raise money. They fabricate monthly numbers to push management’s undesireables out the door. Moron managers will even make fun of employees that are going through chemo treatment for cancer and laugh about it in meetings. They insist you work while on vacation if you have no plans of going away.Then when the issues are reported to upper management (DOUG ASHBRIDGE)they are completely ignored. In essence, Doug condones and encourages this corrupt behavior. Doug couldn’t find his fat *** with 2 hands and a map. No doubt, somebody’s waxing his bean. His statement in a Unit-wide meeting. Farmers SIU is the best and anybody here that doesn’t like it can leave. Corrupt moron ******* ****. Farmers Insurance, The ******* of the insurance industry.
it has been more than a month since i filed my claim and still no check which they have been promising to send ! cant talk to nobody no person answers n if by luck they do ! they will have to get someone to call me back. but of course noboby calls back . lighting hit my ac unit .and where i live it reaches to 105 degrees ! but they dont care . why did i pick this insurance company . what a bad choice .i didnt get my check but i did get a survey wow . i filled it out sent it back with no respose ! please some one help me. this is a emergency people depend on insurance companys in hard times not to make things 100 times harder!!!!!!thats why we pay every month just in case something happens ! but look at what we get ! but they cash my check every month for this insurance ! wtf