I do not condone discriminating against anyone, however, when I call somewhere and the CSR who answers doesn’t understand my request, it is extremely aggravating & frustrating.
I find this on the job as well,with system issues and the IT people repeat everything & still do not understand.
My grandparents came to the USA speaking only German & in my grandmother’s case, German & Russian. They bought books & taught themselves English. My grandmother spoke English with very little accent – my grandfather died long before I was born.
These complaints of discrimination sound like a way to excuse poor job performance & in the truck driver’s case, poor driving – several citations for violations?
101% agreeable with you jet. 34 years have gone by and the USA people still complain about accents when foreigners, like me even, being fully bilingual and had taken Shorthand in English and Spanish, get ‘bugged’ when they say: “you have an accent.” HELL with accents even the people in the South and people in the East of the USA have accents. This is human; however, not being fluent in the language (even American born do not know their English well enough to communicate or write darn it!) not being fluent posses a big problem for miscommunication and misunderstandings. I found out that even among and between Americans born in this country, people do not communicate or understand each other well.
I do disagree to have foreigners or nationals in positions when the communication skill has to be excellent (like customer service even at government positions) the lack of speech and accent KILLS a language anywhere in the world! :-) Many times the good intentions of a person compensates for the lack of proficiency but even that is gone nowadays and instead one is seen (without talking) as an enemy and hell, this people are so low educated themselves!
Better screening and demands before hiring rather than seeing others as a way of exploitation would make this a better nation, needless to say Bilingual educated people should have higher salaries, hence the United States of American could compete with the rest of the educated world in other countries.
Surely there are purely physical jobs where language is not that required, not even from the national who got C’s and D’s in school all through his/her life and never graduated from high school. This is a human condition that happens everywhere in the world, these are the ones who cannot get well paid jobs, who can not achieve higher positions or pay unless THEY LEARN THEIR TRADE very well at and demand themselves to be good, if not better workers. Employers being greedy have brought the working field into the chaos of people, men and women, being fearful of loosing their jobs by rumors that ‘foreigners will get them!’, hate because educated ones can get ahead (women are treated as prostitutes instead of being recognized for their mental and intellectual capacities) and the discrimination is, as you say, many times an excuse to get money or impose themselves in spite of their lack of abilities and EDUCATION or previous careers or professions.
It is normal and human to speak one own’s native language with others, even Americans do the same thing abroad and NOBODY CONDEMNS THEM. When is America going to learn this? Of course, being English the official language, not British English but American English, one must speak this language in front of others. I learned it is rude to speak a foreign language in the presence of others. This COURTESY must be applied everywhere in this country when other are present, even if English is not their first language when others won’t understand what is said.
KINDNESS from the LISTENER and GOOD INTENTIONS from the SPEAKER LEADING THE CONVERSATION OR GUIDING ANOTHER PERSON. But it should be a must, an honor for this country and one’s effort to live and survive in here as it would be in England, Australia, Scotland and Ireland, to learn English. So must Americans learn another language to honor others when they go abroad.
they woul;dn’t let my grandfather leave Ellis Island until he could take the citizenship test… in English. He spent months living there teaching himself the language.
The shoe can go onto the other foot as well. Picture an American born English speaking only member of society who is denied a job they are truely qualified for because they do not speak a second language…usually Spanish. I say that is discrimination!
My daughter has a teaching degree and has been hired as an “aide” to work with a challenged student that no other teacher wants to work with but she has twice been denied a full time position because she does not speak Spanish fluently. And this is her home district! Maybe its time for her to sue!
Overworked – I have to disagree with you. If the job calls for the skill of being bi-lingual then just like a job requirement to work on a computer, if you don’t have the skill then you don’t get the job. It is not discrimination to require a certain skill level.
Sorry I respect your opinion, however I do not agree with it. This country is the United States of America. Our national language is ENGLISH. Why do we have to bend over backwards and deny employment due to not being fluent in other languages? If someone is unable to understand English…it should be on them to get an interpretor. I pay my taxes to an ENGLISH speaking government!
Agree or disagree, we don’t have a legal “official” language. If a job requirement was that you need to lift 50 lbs boxes, if you can’t do it, then you are not qualified to fill the job. If the job requirement is that you must be bi-lingual, then it is a skill you must have to fill the job. The point of the story is that if the driver could not speak or understand the English language well enough to follow directions at the weigh stations, then he would be ticketed (or in this case warned). It appears from the article that he was warned/cited before, which means he needed to get better in his English skills and he didn’t. Just using the information from the article, then he didn’t have the skills necessary to perform the duties of the job and therefore should be fired.
Absolutely — if the driver in the article could not speak English and read English to comply with the directions of the regulatory folks at the weigh station, then he doesn’t have the skills to do the job. Since it wasn’t just one weigh station that had a problem, then it is suspect that he doesn’t have the skills to do the job.
This is American. If they cant speak the language, they should not have even been hired in the forst place.
I have taken my business elsewhere when I could not understand the service rep. And the companies are just supposed to lose business because the people they hire cant speak english to a level of where they can be understood?
Employers are damned if they do hire them (lose customers because they cant be understood if they do hire) and damed if they dont – they get sued for discrimination. Sad day when a potential employer is put in that predicimate.
I sure hope you wasn’t hired for your typin skills!
Bosses have to make sure that the candidate who gets hired can effectively DO THE JOB – if it means speakin or understandin English, then NOT speakin or understandin English proper-like is NOT protected by the law.
If the nice Senora takin’ my order at the BBQ stand didn’t understand me, who hired her, and why?
Figuring out later on that the employee don’t do neither just opens up a can of lawyers.
Though the last can of lawyers I opened up sure tasted good. Just needed extra hot sauce to hide the smell.
Another one smarter then me. HMMMM. Maybe I should quit my job and sue myself because I was too stupid when I got hireed by myself. Or was it my wife that hired me to run the company?
Some overseas IT call centers are using IM (instant messageing) to communicate with the person with the IT problem. This eliminates the accent. Their typing skills are very good, so I feel this is a win win for both parties.
If a worker doesnt have the necessary skills, they should be terminated. If its an overseas call center, cancel it. What is the problem? Oh, the EEOC and certain states and unions are the problem? Move your operation to a non-union, “right to work” state!
I know my viewpoint will not be popular, but not all discrimination suits are bogus. There are still people that are discriminated because of:
Race
Sex
Pregnancy
Religion
National origin
Disability (physical or mental, including HIV status)
Age (for workers over 40)
Military service or affiliation
Bankruptcy or bad debts
Genetic information
Citizenship status (for citizens, permanent residents, temporary residents, refugees, and asylees)
This is AGAINST THE LAW. Now, I agree, if you hired the person with accent, you can’t then fire them for it.
The article states plainly that there are rules about when you can use the English-only requirement and it is totally acceptable when it is a critical part of the job. Certainly I don’t want my EMT or police officer being unable to understand me, but the “senora at the BBQ place?” I’ll just point to the menu and nod.
it is not discrimination. If the job I am hiring for is to interact with my clients who all speak english, and you can not clearly speak english, then you are not qualified.
You are correct and you shouldn’t have been hired in the first place. Hiring someone knowing they speak English as a second language and then firing them for it, may be justified. But it will not stop you from being sued. Alot of times it costs more to defend than the judgement.
The point being, employer beware. You may do all the right things and still get sued.
How about the native speaker of American English who is put at a disadvantage when everyone around her speaks with an accent and she cannot follow work-related dialogue? The worse case of this scenario may be when the native English speaker must decipher the accented English and put it into clear language. I am a technical writer, and this is my dilemma. Some of these non-native English speakers are very proud of their English language skills and will “fix” my documentation. Their “fixes” worsen the document. I am not talking about the addition of technical details or concepts. I’m talking about stylistic, grammar, and punctuation “enhancements.” I bristle because they believe they are better at the English language than I am. And I’ve been told by my boss that to complain about their accents and the fact that these non-native speakers are writing complicated technical documents in a very dysfunctional manner is discrimination. Where are my rights in all this? I’m the widow of an American. Do I get special protections for that? Why not?
What about mono language discrimination?
Part of a Job description:
“FC Background is currently searching for a part-time employee to perform construction jobsite worker badging as well as other administrative functions.
English/Spanish bi-lingual REQUIRED.”
To What – I guess we can sue any company that REQUIRES BI-LINGUAL as part of the job requirement.
To What – Do you have a name of a good lawyer in Boston?
Harry Cohan do you know what the “EO” in “ODEO” equates to?
If not then let me enlighten you “EQUAL OPPORTUNITY” where is the “equal opportunity” in this job.
I do not condone discriminating against anyone, however, when I call somewhere and the CSR who answers doesn’t understand my request, it is extremely aggravating & frustrating.
I find this on the job as well,with system issues and the IT people repeat everything & still do not understand.
My grandparents came to the USA speaking only German & in my grandmother’s case, German & Russian. They bought books & taught themselves English. My grandmother spoke English with very little accent – my grandfather died long before I was born.
These complaints of discrimination sound like a way to excuse poor job performance & in the truck driver’s case, poor driving – several citations for violations?
Too lazy to make the effort to learn English; too lazy to do the job. Sue the employer for easy cash. The new American Dream.
101% agreeable with you jet. 34 years have gone by and the USA people still complain about accents when foreigners, like me even, being fully bilingual and had taken Shorthand in English and Spanish, get ‘bugged’ when they say: “you have an accent.” HELL with accents even the people in the South and people in the East of the USA have accents. This is human; however, not being fluent in the language (even American born do not know their English well enough to communicate or write darn it!) not being fluent posses a big problem for miscommunication and misunderstandings. I found out that even among and between Americans born in this country, people do not communicate or understand each other well.
I do disagree to have foreigners or nationals in positions when the communication skill has to be excellent (like customer service even at government positions) the lack of speech and accent KILLS a language anywhere in the world! :-) Many times the good intentions of a person compensates for the lack of proficiency but even that is gone nowadays and instead one is seen (without talking) as an enemy and hell, this people are so low educated themselves!
Better screening and demands before hiring rather than seeing others as a way of exploitation would make this a better nation, needless to say Bilingual educated people should have higher salaries, hence the United States of American could compete with the rest of the educated world in other countries.
Surely there are purely physical jobs where language is not that required, not even from the national who got C’s and D’s in school all through his/her life and never graduated from high school. This is a human condition that happens everywhere in the world, these are the ones who cannot get well paid jobs, who can not achieve higher positions or pay unless THEY LEARN THEIR TRADE very well at and demand themselves to be good, if not better workers. Employers being greedy have brought the working field into the chaos of people, men and women, being fearful of loosing their jobs by rumors that ‘foreigners will get them!’, hate because educated ones can get ahead (women are treated as prostitutes instead of being recognized for their mental and intellectual capacities) and the discrimination is, as you say, many times an excuse to get money or impose themselves in spite of their lack of abilities and EDUCATION or previous careers or professions.
It is normal and human to speak one own’s native language with others, even Americans do the same thing abroad and NOBODY CONDEMNS THEM. When is America going to learn this? Of course, being English the official language, not British English but American English, one must speak this language in front of others. I learned it is rude to speak a foreign language in the presence of others. This COURTESY must be applied everywhere in this country when other are present, even if English is not their first language when others won’t understand what is said.
KINDNESS from the LISTENER and GOOD INTENTIONS from the SPEAKER LEADING THE CONVERSATION OR GUIDING ANOTHER PERSON. But it should be a must, an honor for this country and one’s effort to live and survive in here as it would be in England, Australia, Scotland and Ireland, to learn English. So must Americans learn another language to honor others when they go abroad.
I could barely understand your post. I hope you aren’t taking a job away from an American who has full command of the language.
I agree, back in the day when immigrants came to America they taught themselves to speak the language just as in any other country.
Really? So I’m assuming you speak Cherokee fluently then?
Tsalagi Ulanigvgv. I do speak Cherokee, so what is your point, Joe?
they woul;dn’t let my grandfather leave Ellis Island until he could take the citizenship test… in English. He spent months living there teaching himself the language.
The shoe can go onto the other foot as well. Picture an American born English speaking only member of society who is denied a job they are truely qualified for because they do not speak a second language…usually Spanish. I say that is discrimination!
My daughter has a teaching degree and has been hired as an “aide” to work with a challenged student that no other teacher wants to work with but she has twice been denied a full time position because she does not speak Spanish fluently. And this is her home district! Maybe its time for her to sue!
Overworked – I have to disagree with you. If the job calls for the skill of being bi-lingual then just like a job requirement to work on a computer, if you don’t have the skill then you don’t get the job. It is not discrimination to require a certain skill level.
Sorry I respect your opinion, however I do not agree with it. This country is the United States of America. Our national language is ENGLISH. Why do we have to bend over backwards and deny employment due to not being fluent in other languages? If someone is unable to understand English…it should be on them to get an interpretor. I pay my taxes to an ENGLISH speaking government!
Agree or disagree, we don’t have a legal “official” language. If a job requirement was that you need to lift 50 lbs boxes, if you can’t do it, then you are not qualified to fill the job. If the job requirement is that you must be bi-lingual, then it is a skill you must have to fill the job. The point of the story is that if the driver could not speak or understand the English language well enough to follow directions at the weigh stations, then he would be ticketed (or in this case warned). It appears from the article that he was warned/cited before, which means he needed to get better in his English skills and he didn’t. Just using the information from the article, then he didn’t have the skills necessary to perform the duties of the job and therefore should be fired.
hmmm- But then that would go with English being a requirement as well.
Absolutely — if the driver in the article could not speak English and read English to comply with the directions of the regulatory folks at the weigh station, then he doesn’t have the skills to do the job. Since it wasn’t just one weigh station that had a problem, then it is suspect that he doesn’t have the skills to do the job.
This is American. If they cant speak the language, they should not have even been hired in the forst place.
I have taken my business elsewhere when I could not understand the service rep. And the companies are just supposed to lose business because the people they hire cant speak english to a level of where they can be understood?
Employers are damned if they do hire them (lose customers because they cant be understood if they do hire) and damed if they dont – they get sued for discrimination. Sad day when a potential employer is put in that predicimate.
I sure hope you wasn’t hired for your typin skills!
Bosses have to make sure that the candidate who gets hired can effectively DO THE JOB – if it means speakin or understandin English, then NOT speakin or understandin English proper-like is NOT protected by the law.
If the nice Senora takin’ my order at the BBQ stand didn’t understand me, who hired her, and why?
Figuring out later on that the employee don’t do neither just opens up a can of lawyers.
Though the last can of lawyers I opened up sure tasted good. Just needed extra hot sauce to hide the smell.
No. I was hired because of my fat fingers and my blind eyes. Additionally, I was born with the gift to gab.
The gift TO gab is not a gift, especially for the listeners.
The gift OF gab, however, is a totally different story.
Another one smarter then me. HMMMM. Maybe I should quit my job and sue myself because I was too stupid when I got hireed by myself. Or was it my wife that hired me to run the company?
Oh God not this one again…
Some overseas IT call centers are using IM (instant messageing) to communicate with the person with the IT problem. This eliminates the accent. Their typing skills are very good, so I feel this is a win win for both parties.
Except for Americans that are now unemployed.
I agree. The jobs should stay in the US. I was addressing the accent issue.
And I was addressing the Unemployment rate.
If a worker doesnt have the necessary skills, they should be terminated. If its an overseas call center, cancel it. What is the problem? Oh, the EEOC and certain states and unions are the problem? Move your operation to a non-union, “right to work” state!
I know my viewpoint will not be popular, but not all discrimination suits are bogus. There are still people that are discriminated because of:
Race
Sex
Pregnancy
Religion
National origin
Disability (physical or mental, including HIV status)
Age (for workers over 40)
Military service or affiliation
Bankruptcy or bad debts
Genetic information
Citizenship status (for citizens, permanent residents, temporary residents, refugees, and asylees)
This is AGAINST THE LAW. Now, I agree, if you hired the person with accent, you can’t then fire them for it.
The article states plainly that there are rules about when you can use the English-only requirement and it is totally acceptable when it is a critical part of the job. Certainly I don’t want my EMT or police officer being unable to understand me, but the “senora at the BBQ place?” I’ll just point to the menu and nod.
it is not discrimination. If the job I am hiring for is to interact with my clients who all speak english, and you can not clearly speak english, then you are not qualified.
You are correct and you shouldn’t have been hired in the first place. Hiring someone knowing they speak English as a second language and then firing them for it, may be justified. But it will not stop you from being sued. Alot of times it costs more to defend than the judgement.
The point being, employer beware. You may do all the right things and still get sued.
That’s how you sell EPL coverage to stubborn clients… ;-)
Good point Libby. Maybe I should print this article and put it in my presentation binder.
How about the native speaker of American English who is put at a disadvantage when everyone around her speaks with an accent and she cannot follow work-related dialogue? The worse case of this scenario may be when the native English speaker must decipher the accented English and put it into clear language. I am a technical writer, and this is my dilemma. Some of these non-native English speakers are very proud of their English language skills and will “fix” my documentation. Their “fixes” worsen the document. I am not talking about the addition of technical details or concepts. I’m talking about stylistic, grammar, and punctuation “enhancements.” I bristle because they believe they are better at the English language than I am. And I’ve been told by my boss that to complain about their accents and the fact that these non-native speakers are writing complicated technical documents in a very dysfunctional manner is discrimination. Where are my rights in all this? I’m the widow of an American. Do I get special protections for that? Why not?
Best way to get rich in America?
Butcher the English language at work and hope you get a lawsuit in your favor!
I Me name Buti i like you people say yu know how yo like talk we help yu ok.
RU F…..n kidding me !
US Citizenship requirement .. Must speak the English language.
What about mono language discrimination?
Part of a Job description:
“FC Background is currently searching for a part-time employee to perform construction jobsite worker badging as well as other administrative functions.
English/Spanish bi-lingual REQUIRED.”
To What – I guess we can sue any company that REQUIRES BI-LINGUAL as part of the job requirement.
To What – Do you have a name of a good lawyer in Boston?
Harry Cohan do you know what the “EO” in “ODEO” equates to?
If not then let me enlighten you “EQUAL OPPORTUNITY” where is the “equal opportunity” in this job.