Appeals Court Blocks Obamacare Contraceptive Mandate

By Andrew Harris and Joel Rosenblatt | November 10, 2013

  • November 11, 2013 at 2:00 pm
    FFA says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
    Thumb up 16
    Thumb down 9

    Let the games begin. Who will lose? The American People. $650 Mil and counting….

    • November 11, 2013 at 2:31 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 20
      Thumb down 13

      FFA, The American People have already lost out on this Obamanation. It will be interesting to see how many have enrolled in October. The early speculation has it about 90+% in Medicaid. That is basically free insurance and hits the deficit much harder. Why would people enroll in Obamacare if they can get Medicaid. I would bet that almost no young people have enrolled anywhere and that is what they were counting on to fund this travesty.

    • November 11, 2013 at 3:37 pm
      Cheetoh Mulligan says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 20
      Thumb down 9

      I still don’t see how contraceptives should be a covered expense under health insurance. It is not a needed medicine. If you want to have sex, then pay for your chosen method of not having the female get pregnant. Why should a business have to pay for this luxury? Now under obamacare, why should the taxpayer pay for contraception?
      I laugh at the quote in the story by the dissenting judge where she says that it is not the corporation’s choice in what the employee wants to use as a method of contraception. Yet conversely she feels the corporation has no choice and must pay for the contraception. That’s incredible!

  • November 11, 2013 at 2:01 pm
    Guy DeMarco says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 12
    Thumb down 0

    Interesting … it seems both sides are using the same argument against each other. So, just who is forcing their belief on the other? Those who say the employer must provide contraceptive coverage regardless of their religious belief or those who say they should not have to pay for something they find morally objectionable and against their religious belief?

    At this juncture, I am thinking Freedom of Religion may win out here as it is actually addressed in the US Constitution. But then, who knows what the courts will say.

    • November 11, 2013 at 2:24 pm
      FFA says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 16
      Thumb down 7

      Error on the side of caution – the Constitution… This will never stop. Suit after suit will be filed. Govt got no business being in private business.

      • November 11, 2013 at 2:27 pm
        Celtica says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
        Thumb up 12
        Thumb down 13

        So then you do agree that women have the right to choose – ???

        • November 11, 2013 at 2:44 pm
          FFA says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
          Thumb up 17
          Thumb down 8

          My argument has always been a financial one in this matter. I supplied for my birth control and I am done making babies. I believe that if you choose to go on birth control, then the cost should be yours to shoulder. You play, you pay.

          I believe abortion is wrong. In my mind, there is no such thing as an unwanted baby. Even with my struggles, I would still take in any child in need of a roof over his/her head. I have no intention of getting into a debate on this issue. Everyone has to live with the choice they make. If you can make that choice and look yourself in the mirror, that’s your decision.

          Supreme Ct says its the woman’s decision and I do not sit here and judge the decision that women make. Eventually, everyone is judged by a power greater then what is on Earth. I will be judged for my sins. You will be judged for yours. That’s up to St Pete – or whom ever you believe to be the Gate Keeper.

          Either way, no one, even you, speak out in support of this law nor Obama any more. I believe we have come to a majority decision – get rid of this law. Please do advise if that is not the case with you.

          • November 11, 2013 at 3:28 pm
            Celtica says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
            Thumb up 11
            Thumb down 17

            I say let it go to the Supreme Court for a decision on contraceptive benefits. They decided on abortion and the ACA and so it should go for the religious aspects of benefits.

            However, I do tend to notice that when people want the government to stay out of people’s private lives, it doesn’t actually mean they want the government to stay out of women’s lives.

            Just the way it is.

          • November 11, 2013 at 3:56 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 12
            Thumb down 3

            Celtica, you didn’t answer the question, given the problem as well as the fact that 17 Mill people can not keep what they have / like, do you think OBama Care should be scrapped all together?

            Do you think that Obama should have consequences for knowing lie to the American people after he knew in June 2010 that people would lose their coverage?

          • November 11, 2013 at 5:36 pm
            Celtica says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 8
            Thumb down 5

            FFA, I do not think that the ACA should be scrapped because 17 million people cannot keep what they have. Their insured contacts simply never had a clause that entitled them to coverage forever and a day. They were always at risk of being dropped or terms changed. Just like the real world. And they were surely not promised coverage for pre-existing conditions.

            But those insurers could have — and will if they wish to remain in insurance — have to offer coverage on a level playing field so consumer can cmpare applex to apples rather than the apples to oranges approach.

            As for Obama lying, shame on him for promising that people could keep their plans if they wanted — no matter how poor those plans were written and what little coverage they actually provided. However, I do not put this anywhere near the magnitude of lies of the Bush Administration and the case for War in Iraq and Afghanistan.

            All in all, the ACA provides coverage for pre-existing conditions, preventative exams and a level playing field. How can making America healthier be so bad?

          • November 11, 2013 at 6:02 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 8
            Thumb down 1

            Celtica. In IL, Ind & WI plans were available for Pre X. I would guess every state had something set up.

            Comparing my HSA guys plan to what he is going to have , he is giving up coverage as the plan was written above and beyond what Obama has in his plan. The plans I see being cancelled would be the ones getting the Cadi Tax.

            I guess I could live with the 18 mil being cancelled. I worry about the 75mil on groups. I also worry that the web site will not be ready on time so more of the 18 mil being cancelled are going to be left twisting in the wind because the tech is no where near ready. I have successfully quoted only 4 and I have someone camping on the site every day.

            At the very least, I would guess you would be in favor of a delay until it gets fixed?

            The Supreme Ct will come to the decision on BC. It just wont matter one way or the other if people cant get insurance due to the tech issue.

          • November 11, 2013 at 6:30 pm
            Celtica says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 6
            Thumb down 5

            FFA: I would listen to the arguments for and against delaying implementation of the the ACA; however, it must be said that application by phone and the U.S. mail are still operational. Not EVERYTING needs to be done on a website.

          • November 12, 2013 at 9:45 am
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 6
            Thumb down 2

            Caltica, Health Insurance contracts previously the company could only cancel for non pay or if they are pulling out. If they discontinued the exact policy form, they offered alternatives. In this case, the alternative are not as strong on the coverage at more then 2x the current premium.

          • November 12, 2013 at 10:11 am
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 9
            Thumb down 3

            BTW Celtica, Bashing Bush – in my opinion is pointless. He is past. Problems of the ACA are all OBamas.

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:03 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 2

            Caltica, people call the 800 number and they get a pre recorded message to call back in 42 hours. To give up my personal info to someone that wasn’t even required to go threw a back round check is not acceptable to me. So, problems exist on that aspect of roll out too.

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:34 pm
            Libby says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 5
            Thumb down 6

            FFA – I just got through on the phone no problem. Besides, how long ago did you get your insurance license? Have you gone through a background check since? Have you seen all the articles on IJ about insurance agents committing fraud? Have you or your wife given personal information to a receptionist at your doctor’s office or an admission clerk in a hospital or clinic? How about your mortgage broker &/or bank clerk?

            None of those people mentioned above go through a background search, but you have no problem releasing your personal information to them.

            Please. Find a better argument against the ACA than that one.

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:58 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 1

            Libby, thanks for the heads up. My CSR is getting on the phone with them right now…. Seize the moment….

            I personally knew my doctor before he was my doctor. He had that info 25 years ago. I trust him. My Mortgage guy, yes you guess it. I knew him before he was my mortgage guy. I trust him. That’s been 15 years. I am about 5 years from not having a mortgage. Someone on an 800 phone number don’t get my info. Its about minimalizing risk. I don’t do anything to expose myself so as to accomplish that goal.

            I have been licensed since 1985. I cant remember that far back, but when I broke independent, all my carriers went through a back round check on me. I take Class room ethics for three hours every 24 months. Its mandatory class room. On a side note – Illinois Politicians telling me I have to take ethics….. HMMM. On my renewal, there is always a question about Felonies and Back Child Support.

            One of my dad former peers did time In club fed for fraud, so yes. I know there are crooks in every walk of life. Fact is I think they built Brooks Correction Facility just for politicians and white collar crimes. That’s where most of Grey Lord & Silver Scoop convicts went to.

            I opened my bank account when I was 18 and still have the same account… When I opened my biz book, that was my FEIN. It has been a long long time since I have given out my ss number. My last credit card I applied for was my FEIN. That’s been 4 years at least. It only has a $500 limit on it.
            Cell phone was Biz.

            I have trust issues with people on the phone and the internet.

          • November 12, 2013 at 2:25 pm
            jw says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 5
            Thumb down 0

            FFA, you knew your doctor and trust him. Do you know his billing clerk? The receptionist? Do you know the person(s) at the insurance company who will be reviewing the billing?

            What about at the hospital where your wife recently had a procedure done? Did you know those registrars? The billing staff? (by the way, I worked for HCA for a while, all billing for hospitals was done in Nashville, TN – I didn’t even know those people and i worked for the same company)

            None of these people will have undergone a background check. (I’ve done all those jobs, by the way)

          • November 12, 2013 at 2:33 pm
            jw says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 1

            Let me clarify, I don’t think any of those people will use your information for illegal gain. My point is only that your information is out there, and employees at any of those businesses have access to it.

            Once you give your information the first time, it’s out there. Forever. Now, I have been out of healthcare for a very long time, so it’s quite possible the employers are doing a complete background check on all these positions. I keep forgetting it’s been over 10 years since I had to work in health care. So, maybe I’m wrong.

          • November 12, 2013 at 3:05 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 0

            JW –
            I have not been to a doc for several years. Chiro earlier this year. Strange coincidence, I knew him when we were kids from the Lake… I did not know he was in the practice. I walked in, saw his name and had to ask if he was the same John Smith I knew as a kid. If the ID theft happens on his watch, his problem… Last I remember, all they ask for is my Ins Card. I do know my claim rep at the insurance carrier. I wrote the policy. I did my due diligence… On all my wifes claim, its always the same person assigned to my account. Makes it nice – dealing with one person for everything that goes on. Not gonna be nice any more.

            All the facility, all they asked for was my insurance card which does not have my SS or my wife’ SS number on it.

            I am careful. Maybe bordering on Paranoid about that stuff. I don’t want to know how good my ID theft coverage on my HO policy is.

            Also, I just don’t like change….

          • November 13, 2013 at 7:14 am
            jw says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 1

            one last comment:

            FFA, they don’t ask for your SSN because they already have it in their data base.

        • November 13, 2013 at 12:10 am
          ijs says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 4
          Thumb down 2

          I firmly believe that liberals should have the right to kill their babies.

    • November 11, 2013 at 3:13 pm
      Ron says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 12
      Thumb down 9

      Guy DeMarco,

      F.Y.I.
      Freedom from Religion is also in the Constitution.

      Amendment I

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

      http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

      The real question is, should Freedom of Religion win over Freedom from Religion?

      • November 11, 2013 at 4:34 pm
        FFA says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 8
        Thumb down 2

        Ron, given the issues that have presented itself, do you think that Obama Care should be scrapped? Delayed?

        • November 12, 2013 at 8:15 am
          Ron says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 5
          Thumb down 7

          FFA,

          First, I do nor call it Obama Care, it is the Patient Protection and Affrdable CAre Act (PPACA). President Obama wanted at least a public option, so this is not what he wanted.

          Second, I have posted several times that I am against the law as it is curently written. My only problem has been the strategy used by Republicans. Going for full repeal in the current political environment is a waste of time and my tax dollars. They need to focus on either: 1. regaining control by acting like reasonble adults; or 2. trying to work on certain aspects of the law for which they are against.

          A lot of them say they like parts of the law, so just focus on what you do not like. There is a reason there are 27 Amendments to the Constitution. Nothing is perfect.

          I do honestly believe that President Obama would have worked with them if they did not come out with their, “make him a one-term President” approach. They set the tone.

          • November 12, 2013 at 9:46 am
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 6
            Thumb down 0

            I can respect that…

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:26 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 4

            No. They didn’t.

            Obama stated “you sit in the back” regarding healthcare.

            It was not because they said their goal was to make him a one term president.

            Quit finding reasons to call the republicans babies, while ignoring the actions of Obama.

            The Patient’s Choice Act of 2009 was a good one. If Obama strictly disagreed for the sake of someone saying they didn’t want him president, then the president needs to sit down, shut up, and grow up.

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:38 pm
            Libby says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 5
            Thumb down 9

            Bob, Bob, Bob: The Patient Care Act of 2009??? Wasn’t this AFTER Obama was elected? What did they do in the umpteen years before 2009? NOTHING. NADA. BUBKISS.

            Only when they realized that something was actually going to happen with healthcare did they get up off their asses and throw together some plan no-one ever heard of.

            Obama compromised plenty on his plan, since he actually wanted a single payer option. But instead he used the Heritage Foundations plan as his base, trying to appease the Republicans. But they will not be appeased. Not until Obama is out of the White House. Period. End of story.

          • November 12, 2013 at 2:38 pm
            jw says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 3

            Why didn’t republicans push a plan through when Clinton was president? Or whenever it was that they had the majority in both the senate and the house.

          • November 12, 2013 at 3:59 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 2

            Libby says – “Bob, Bob, Bob: The Patient Care Act of 2009??? Wasn’t this AFTER Obama was elected? What did they do in the umpteen years before 2009? NOTHING. NADA. BUBKISS”

            My premium was $722 when they did “NOTHING. NADA. BUBKISS” I had a $1K ded and a Doc Co pay. Now its over $1500 with a flat $5K ded.

            “NOTHING. NADA. BUBKISS” was better. and, I am not gonna be able to keep it if I wanted to.

          • November 12, 2013 at 4:07 pm
            Libby says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 3

            FFA – you said that premium was either a group premium or a COBRA premium – both of which you are no longer eligible.

            And didn’t you say your premium is actually going DOWN with the ACA rates?

            The ACA is not responsible for your premium increases.

          • November 12, 2013 at 4:41 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 0

            Libby, the $722 was a Cobra Premium and the $1500 is group. Yes, my premium is going down if I can get the application in.
            The only demographic that I have found going down is Max Rated Groups and people on IChip – the adverse selection demographic.
            My premium reduction will only last a short time when the numbers catch up. Meanwhile, I will forever lose the income I am getting from BCBS & Humana. Premium Reduction – Short term – income lost – forever.
            I have changed my marketing focus to the self funded plan.
            If I could get people enrolled and get the income replaced, I would happier then I am.

          • November 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm
            Libby says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 4

            I wish you luck in replacing the income. I know that must be a big blow to your business.

          • November 12, 2013 at 5:15 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 0

            Two years ago, workers Comp reform cost me over $500,00 in premium volume. It also tripled my Non Resident fees. Now this….
            Was looking forward to replacing it with Health Income.

            Govt Intrusion.

      • November 12, 2013 at 10:11 am
        Ron says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 15
        Thumb down 1

        Interesting that my post has received at least 7 thumb downs for quoting the Constitution.

        • November 12, 2013 at 11:03 am
          jw says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 4
          Thumb down 0

          wow. how sad.

        • November 12, 2013 at 11:48 am
          Libby says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 5
          Thumb down 3

          Par for the course, Ron. I’ve gotten thumbed down for saying God Bless America. Go figure.

          There are haters amongst us…

  • November 11, 2013 at 2:31 pm
    Rusty says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 9
    Thumb down 10

    This is a real interesting issue because of the legal recognition of the separation between a business owner and the corporate business owned as respects taxes tax versus the right of such owners to express their religions beliefs in the conduct of the business. I am not sure there is a right or wrong to this issue, but of this I am certain-we will see more and more of these kinds of cases as the government imposes more and more upon the lives of its citizens. As for the practical issue, if Obama Care is to pay cover birth control, it would have to apply equally to both males and females. So, does this mean we all have to pay for the condoms used by highly sexually active males and pills by highly sexually active females? Some will obviously use more than others, but either way, their activity is a matter of choice and I fail to see why the choice to have frequent sex, accompanied by their choice to use birth control has to be funded by everyone. What is the rationale for government health programs to fund activities that are conducted as a matter of choice? It seems that is is but another example of the overreach of government into the lives of citizens. Once that concept gains more and more of a foothold, there is no stopping it. Between what we’ve already seen the concept at work in New York City and in our public schools and now hearing about bans on trans-fat, it appears the government, that we elect, has decided that people are not capable of taking care of themselves, so it has to intervene. Maybe that is what’s happening as the nanny state makes more and more decisions for us. For example, it may be only a matter of time before the government decides how many hours we can spend watching TV or what we can watch. Worse yet, it may also decide on the content of what we watch, as is illustrated by the current effort to infuse pro-ObamaCare messages into entertainment formats in order to brainwash viewers. We are seeing Orwell’s 1984 emerge – only a couple of decades later than it was predicted to do so.

    • November 11, 2013 at 4:02 pm
      Pat says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 15
      Thumb down 0

      Actually, if health plans must cover contraceptives, why do they have to cover ALL types? Most health insurance plans have a formulary where they will pay for some drugs but not others, usually based on price and effectiveness. Why should this be any different for contraceptives? If so, can a plan comply by only covering the cost of condoms (and then limit the number per month as they do with some medications). There is actually an easy answer to this potentially constitutional problem. Don’t mandate that health insurance plans cover contraceptives or abortions at all. Corporations that want to cover it, can do so as they do today. For those that don’t, let individuals choose to purchase such coverage directly from the government and at actuarially sound premiums so the taxpayers are not subsidizing the coverage.

      • November 12, 2013 at 12:58 pm
        Libby says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 2
        Thumb down 1

        I think they were replying to Rusty’s comment:

        “So, does this mean we all have to pay for the condoms used by highly sexually active males and pills by highly sexually active females? Some will obviously use more than others, but either way, their activity is a matter of choice and I fail to see why the choice to have frequent sex, accompanied by their choice to use birth control has to be funded by everyone.”

  • November 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm
    idk says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 11
    Thumb down 2

    It’s hard to take these messages seriously with the clear lack of science knowledge. The number of pills taken by a woman is the exact same every month. It has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of sexual activity.

    • November 11, 2013 at 3:08 pm
      FFA says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 10
      Thumb down 5

      IDK – I think your right on that point. I just don’t want my premiums going up. I paid for mine. I am past making babies. Why should I start paying again through higher premiums? Nothing is free in this world.

    • November 11, 2013 at 4:22 pm
      Pat says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 6
      Thumb down 0

      If you are referring to my post, I was mentioning a limit on the number of condoms each month, not birth control pills. You might want to reread my post.

  • November 11, 2013 at 3:00 pm
    sl says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 11
    Thumb down 1

    Various religious dogma has no place in corporate america – what a mess that would be…

    • November 11, 2013 at 3:10 pm
      FFA says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 12
      Thumb down 5

      SI, Govt has no place in Private Business.

      • November 11, 2013 at 3:33 pm
        Agent says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 10
        Thumb down 9

        I agree FFA, but whether we like it or not, they are poking their nose in all our business since they want to exercise control over us. They want to tell us what to eat, drink, what car we can drive and what kind of healthcare we can have or not have. It is a massive intrusion of government into what used to be a free country. Never mind the Constitution. We know best and you should just go along with it. Liberals just hate it when Conservatives object to the way things are going. When will the low information voters wake up? Perhaps the cancellation notices are doing the trick.

    • November 11, 2013 at 4:41 pm
      Pat says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 9
      Thumb down 3

      si – you say that religious dogma has no place in corporate America. I don’t necessarily agree with you on that as I think privately held companies should reflect the beliefs of their owners. I have question for you. What if a corporation didn’t want to provide health insurance for anything that was considered elective (including contraceptives except where medically necessary)? In fact, why should any INSURANCE cover elective services or substances when the basic premise of insurance is to cover the unexpected and unintended, not the elective which are planned?

  • November 11, 2013 at 3:42 pm
    idk says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 9
    Thumb down 9

    The government has to fill the gaps that private industry either won’t participate in, can’t make money at or is failing in…

    If private industry had solved the issue of the uninsured and escalating health care costs than the government wouldn’t have to come in.

    Government is needed to balance business who only has the goal of profit. Government recognizes the other goals of society that business does not have responsibility for.

    The best way to have a limited government is to have solid business that doesn’t pollute, balances short and long-term profit with the desire of the society in which they operate.

    • November 11, 2013 at 4:05 pm
      FFA says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 7
      Thumb down 3

      IDK, In Il, WI & IND people had coverage available to them. Private Industry had the plans that people just did not take advantage of.

      Disrupting 18 MIL with an additional potential of 75 Mill on groups to get 17 Mil people coverage? Obama says – regarding the 18 Mil – its only 5% of the population. OBama promised – even after June 2010 when he found out we could not – that people could keep the coverage they have.

      Ever try the double up method in Vegas? It don’t work. House always wins.

    • November 13, 2013 at 4:58 pm
      LiveFree says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 3
      Thumb down 0

      IDK, I respectively disagree. The use of private industry in your post is somewhat bothersome to me just because I think private industry and free markets get confused quite often. Yes there is “private industry” in healthcare (private businesses) but their is no “free market” in the industry. I strongly believe a free market in the healthcare industry would have cured this. It all starts with a little mandate here and regulation there at any level or indirect corner of the industry and next thing you know there is an organizations (usually special interest groups) that capitalize on those new regulations at others expense (be it the public through taxes or private industry through un-fair completive advantage). These organizations enjoy this very much so they hire lobbyist to further pillage the industry all with the help of the government which is the perfect alibi because they are “by and for the people.”

      I find it ludicrous to believe the Government has the ability to recognize what is best for society in regards to a corporate industry better than the participants in that industry whose profit incentive only increases that affect (what incentive does the gov’t have?). Private business in a free market is truly by and for the people because each dollar earned is a vote in their service or product, and to earn that dollar they will strive to do what is best for society to get that profit as society will be the only factor (i.e. no/minimal regulations). Monopolies are only created with the help of government. (here is a cynical/deadpanish but very truthful little article about that http://mises.org/daily/6572/Five-Ways-to-Create-a-Monopoly).

      If you knew all the government imposed regulation and licensure that billing in healthcare goes through (I do so not blowing smoke), added in with government paid options medicare and medicade, you could not in good faith call it a free market. The best way to have a limited government is really simply, actually limit it.

  • November 11, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 8
    Thumb down 7

    FFA said- ” I believe that if you choose to go on birth control, then the cost should be yours to shoulder. You play, you pay.”

    I am with you FFA. I really don’t care as long as I don’t have to pay for it and I don’t have to pay for it through my taxes or my business.
    If someone wants to buy it, fine pay for it. I also don’t think I should have to pay for maternity care, pediatric care, drug addition care and drug rehab treatment. Nor do I want to buy mental treatment care. But wait, I can’t do that because Obama says those plans are “substandard” even if they have been approved the department of insurance in my state (He called those folks stupid). So, I have to buy something that I don’t want and don’t want to pay for.

    • November 11, 2013 at 5:44 pm
      Celtica says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 8
      Thumb down 6

      Sarg: Do you expect young adults to pay for your age related ailments?

      • November 12, 2013 at 11:12 am
        jw says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 8
        Thumb down 0

        That’s an interesting point. There are people on blood pressure medicine who could go off that medicine if they stuck to low sodium diets and basically ate healthy.

        Should insurance cover the meds for these people?

      • November 12, 2013 at 11:16 am
        jw says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 4
        Thumb down 0

        Please do not assume my point is birth control should be included in health insurance. I am asking because the topic of what insurance should cover has become conflicted. I don’t think medication for high blood pressure is cheap. (not on any, so i don’t know)

        • November 12, 2013 at 11:57 am
          Ron says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 5
          Thumb down 1

          jw,

          My generic high blood pressure meidcation is less than $4 per month w/no prescription coverage.

          I do eat healthy, exercise, and maintain a low sodium diet. The only thing left that could help would be to stop reading IJ.

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:15 pm
            jw says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 0

            LOL

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:18 pm
            jw says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 0

            BTW, I made sure not to say ALL people on blood pressure medicine, since I have met people who do everything right and still have to take the meds.

            This applies to cholestoral meds, too. In some cases, eating right can eliminate the need for drugs. (note I said SOME cases)

      • November 12, 2013 at 5:39 pm
        FFA says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 3
        Thumb down 1

        Celtica -”Do you expect young adults to pay for your age related ailments”.
        Obama does. That’s all that matters.

      • November 14, 2013 at 11:14 am
        Sargeant Major says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 3
        Thumb down 2

        Celtica- I don’t have any age related ailments and you have no idea how old I am. No I don’t expect young adults to pay. If ACA goes away the young will pay very little for healthcare. My daughter pays about $112.00 per month for a single adult, no dependents from employer based coverage through Blue Cross Blue Shield. Under Obamacare that price will be over $500.00 per month according to her employer.

  • November 11, 2013 at 5:27 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 9
    Thumb down 9

    I heard Obama has signed a book deal for his biography. They are going after the younger readers and calling it—- “The Lyin’ King”!

    • November 11, 2013 at 5:40 pm
      Celtica says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 9
      Thumb down 8

      It will be right next to Bush and Cheney’s books about their service in Vietnam. However, rather than being memoirs, it will be marketed as fiction.

      • November 14, 2013 at 11:15 am
        Sargeant Major says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 4
        Thumb down 2

        Well since you asked about my age related ailments I must ask if you expect young people to pay for your mental impairment?

    • November 11, 2013 at 5:51 pm
      FFA says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 10
      Thumb down 2

      First things first Sarge — I Salute you & Agent & Libby & my dad and all other vets that made it possible to even have this debate. THANK YOU!

      Second of all damn your Lions! nuf said.

      Last but not last, no regular in the IJ speaks in favor of Obama Care nor in favor of OBama. The light has gone on in every ones head that this sucks. We are worse off then where we were. It has all turned to Bush Bashing.

      Next time someone like Biden goes into a debate and asks people to “Trust Me”, DONT!!!!

      • November 11, 2013 at 5:52 pm
        FFA says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 7
        Thumb down 1

        OOPS Should have ready libbys dad – not Libby herself.

        • November 11, 2013 at 6:31 pm
          Celtica says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 8
          Thumb down 5

          FFA:

          No regular in the IJ speaks in favor of the ACA or Obama?
          Really? And I mean really? Or just the people who think as you do?

          Sheesh.

          • November 12, 2013 at 9:54 am
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 7
            Thumb down 1

            In its current form as it is today, Libby and Ron have both spoken against it (ACA). Not the concept, the way it is today. Cap Planet has fallen silent all together. Probably moved on to complaining about the Bulls as they are not the team he & I thought they would be. D Rose should have solved all the problems from last year.

            Your the only one left that speaks in favor of it in its current form – not the concept, the current form. So, now even Libby and Ron think like I do.

            Any one else left thinks this thing should go forward in its current form as it is written today?

          • November 12, 2013 at 11:57 am
            Libby says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 7
            Thumb down 5

            FFA – I have always said the ACA was a living, breathing document and it should be improved and amended as needed. I never said it should be thrown out all together. Because something is better than nothing, which is what the Republicans have given us.

            My beef has been with Congress that can’t seem to set aside their own agendas to work together to make the ACA a success. Sure it needed changes. Let’s work together to make it happen. Instead they spend all their time on useless votes to repeal.

            And the Obama bashing has gotten out of hand. Just as you say Bush bashing is pointless, so is Obama bashing. Just what has that done to improve any situation? It just gives Congress more fodder to continue their at-each-others-throat mentality. After all, the American people are the same way so they must agree…

            I’m sick of all the hate spewing and name calling and downright meanness of people in this country and on this blog.

            I’m not defending Obama, but every wrong in this country is not his fault.

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:11 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 5
            Thumb down 3

            Libby says “I’m not defending Obama, but every wrong in this country is not his fault.

            I agree with that point. Everything wrong in the ACA is his fault. 18Mil people stand to lose their health insurance and can not get through to get alternative coverage – better or worse. He needs to step up and delay its implementation before we end up worse then when we started.

            BTW, I have never been a fan of any liar regardless of occupation.

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:30 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 5
            Thumb down 4

            Libby,

            Nothing is what the *democrats* gave us.

            Fixed. Obama himself said that much of the ACA was his version of republican ideas. So did you. So which is it, did Obama cave too much to republican ideas, or did the republicans have no ideas?

            You have no logics. At all.

            Moving on to the way it actually is however: The ACA is bad, and we had better options on the table from the republicans, including 2 CBO rated plans, and the Patients Choice Act. The reason these did not pan out, was the democrats were caught up in a flame war against Bush W. Ergo, Obama’s famous “you ride in the back” comment regarding healthcare. Really. If he supposedly put their ideas “in the back” then did he really put in place republican ideas? If he rejected the Patient’s choice act as well as two others did he listen to their ideas?

            The republicans are not the fault for healthcare reforms going poorly. You can look no further than Obama, who clearly made it “d” versus “r” for reverse as he worded it.

          • November 12, 2013 at 1:52 pm
            Libby says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 5

            The ACA was modeled after the Heritage Foundations plan. Neither the Heritage Foundation nor the Republican party brought forth this plan as a bill. So while the Heritage Foundation, a right-wing think tank, came up with the concept, the Republicans did nothing to make it into law. My logic is just fine, thank you.

            And yes, I believe Obama did compromise too much with the right. He should have gone for a single payer system.

            Further, “If he rejected the Patient’s choice act as well as two others did he listen to their ideas?” Are you saying he rejected them out of hand? Maybe they just weren’t good plans.

            The Republicans have sat on their hands regarding healthcare, bringing forth these “plans” at the last minute so they wouldn’t be one-upped. Then when something is finally put into place, they do nothing to improve it and everything to tank it.

            The Republicans put “R” against “D” mentality in motion. Not the other way around. McConnell made his one-term comment on 10/23/10. Obama, referring to the Republicans driving the car (economy) into the ditch, said on 10/26/10 that “they can come for the ride, but they have to sit in back.” Meaning they can be in the car, but they won’t be driving the car. Hardly the characterization the right has tried to make it.

          • November 12, 2013 at 3:10 pm
            Agent says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 2

            So FFA, the other serial liar and impeached but not removed Slick Willy came out and said that Obama needed to honor his pledge that people would not lose their Healthcare, Period. I wonder how they are going to try to do that at this point when the law was signed 3 1/2 years ago and this administration knew people were going to lose their coverage. They did it for an agenda and was sure they would have a ready pool of customers eager to sign up. Oops! What happened here? No healthy young signing up, most signing up for Medicaid? Only a 3% of goal so far? No workable site after nearly 6 weeks?

          • November 12, 2013 at 3:27 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 0

            Agent – They do have a ready pool of customers – 17 Mil Uninsured, 18 Mil being cancelled and a potential of 75Mil on group ready and willing. What happened??? Well we all know.

            I do accept that this is law. I don’t have to like it, but I accepted and embraced it. Now, I am being cut out of the marketing process and losing income which I need.

            More people need to speak out quickly about delaying the implementation.

            If it were up to me, It would be implemented by Month of Birth. Your born in Jan, sign up in Jan ect… Not cram everyone in in a short period of time. Maybe open an agent access link so we the agents that control 90% of the health market can move people in at a pace that’s not come one come all today and then add an additional 18Mil to the mix. That way, people could be at a comfort level with the person they are dealing with.

            But what do I know… I’m just an average Joe trying to keep a roof over my head…

          • November 12, 2013 at 5:42 pm
            FFA says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 0

            Libby says – “The ACA was modeled after the Heritage Foundations plan.”
            I was modeled after Brad Pitt. Turns out he is a short fat bald guy.

      • November 14, 2013 at 11:19 am
        Sargeant Major says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 3
        Thumb down 1

        Don’t worry about the Lions yet as they always seem to screw up a good thing somewhere during the season. I hope they do well and it is about time but I am cautious. It would be great to go to a player game and actually win!

  • November 12, 2013 at 10:53 am
    uct says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 18
    Thumb down 1

    This is an interesting scenario. On one hand, I don’t like the idea of Obamacare paying for birth control. On the other, maybe it would help keep some folks off Welfare and Lord knows I hate supporting someone with six kids more than paying for their upbringing out of my tax dollars. It’s really a no-win situation. The question I have is will the people popping out all the kids use Obamacare and/or the birth control if it is free for them? I have my doubts. Either way, the American taxpayer is going to foot this bill (again). What a great society we live in. The lazy are consistently rewarded with options, while those of us working 50-60 hours per week are hammered with the privlege of paying for them.

    How about a compromise; We pay for the birth control, but if you already have children and are on welfare, yet don’t take advantage of the free birth control, you are disqualified from receiving any “extra” benefits with your housing, food stamps, or whatever else my taxes are paying for. I think that is not only fair, but logical, which is why it will never happen.

    • November 12, 2013 at 4:02 pm
      Agent says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 4
      Thumb down 3

      FFA, Can you just imagine all the head scratching going on behind the scenes in the White House & HHS? They have a sorry law, a website that doesn’t work, coverage that is more expensive that no one can apparently get and an angry American people. My question is, who are they going to throw under the bus for this disaster? Just fixing the dysfunctional website is not going to work with people. The Republicans have tried to repeal it because they knew what was coming, but people like Ron bashed them and said they were wasting taxpayer dollars for trying to do it. How many taxpayer dollars were wasted on the site? It may very well be close to a billion dollars to either fix it or start over. Say what you want about Ted Cruz. His voice was loud and strong and he is being proven right every day that goes by.

      • November 12, 2013 at 4:09 pm
        Libby says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 4
        Thumb down 4

        Why didn’t they spend that time trying to revise it and make it better instead of trying to repeal it when that was never going to get through the Senate, let alone the President.

        Riddle me that, Agent.

        • November 12, 2013 at 5:25 pm
          FFA says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 3
          Thumb down 0

          Its politics as usual Libby. They would all rather play the blame game instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting the job done.

        • November 12, 2013 at 5:31 pm
          Agent says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 4
          Thumb down 3

          Libby, when this was put together, no Republican input was sought or accepted, then it was rammed through without any Democrat reading it and knowing what the ramifications were. It was finally passed without one Republican vote in either house. How far do you think any changes would have gotten with Harry Reid trashing everything sent his way? The Progressives thought they were the smartest in the room and it is their baby all the way. They proved themselves to be the dumbest of the dumb and look at the price we are paying for their stupidity.

          • November 14, 2013 at 12:04 pm
            jw says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 0

            Agent, everything you said just proves the point that there is no way to REPEAL the ACA with the current policians in office. Therefore, the anti-aca group needs to craft/propose fixes a little at a time.

            Until the majority of those in power are for repeal, the repeal cannot happen. That is why they are considered to be wasting time and money.

            Several of those posting on the IJ forums have used the phrase “politics as usual” to refer to the non-cooperation. Well, that means the politicians have to work within that mindset to fix this nightmare. It may take a long time, but this is a big mess.

    • November 14, 2013 at 11:22 am
      Sargeant Major says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 3
      Thumb down 1

      UCT- I am not sure it keeps many off the welfare roll. Where I live,the women with 6 kids by different fathers has had access to birth control for free all along from the community health center and paid for by Medicaid. They just never use it. They have more kids as a way to periodically get a government raise.

  • November 12, 2013 at 1:36 pm
    Employee says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 6
    Thumb down 8

    Dear Employer: I respect your religous beleifs, but they are not my religous beliefs when it comes to contraception. If the company sponsored medical health plan does not cover contraception, when should I and my unplanned child move in with you? If that doesn’t work for you. You can just cut me a check for $241,080 which is the current cost to raise one child until the age of 18.

    • November 12, 2013 at 4:22 pm
      FFA says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 8
      Thumb down 3

      Dear Employee – how do you get kids out at 18 where there are no jobs? Get my kids out, I’ll take your unplanned child in. You – you made your bed. sleep in it.

    • November 13, 2013 at 2:58 pm
      Pat says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 4
      Thumb down 0

      Employee – the use of contraception and a person’s decisions to engage in sex are both completely elective. In addition, contraceptives don’t treat or prevent disease. Insurance generally doesn’t cover things that are completely elective or don’t treat or prevent disease so why should this be any different?

    • November 14, 2013 at 11:24 am
      Sargeant Major says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 3
      Thumb down 1

      Dear Employee- Try abstinence or by your own rubbers and save yourself $241,080

  • November 12, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    FFA says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 12
    Thumb down 0

    UCT Says – “How about a compromise;”… Do you have politics in your future?

    You got my vote!

  • November 12, 2013 at 3:20 pm
    Rusty says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 8
    Thumb down 3

    As respects the umber of birth control pills, I didn’t mean that literally being the same as a number of condoms. However, isn’t there a “morning after” pill that might be used multiple times by a woman who is not regularly taking regular birth control pills? And, “Employee” why you feel that someone else sould pay for your condoms? Haven’t you ever heard of personal responsibility? Why do you think an employer who doesn’t believe in contraception is somehow responsible for your unplanned child? I’ve got news for you – your employer had nothing to do with your child’s conception – that was strictly between you and your partner. Unfortunately the more we read blogs like this the more we realize there’s a whole population out there that wants to shove their own responsibility onto the shoulders of others.

    • November 12, 2013 at 4:06 pm
      FFA says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 8
      Thumb down 0

      If there is some guy out there needing as many condoms as a woman needs a pill – he should hit the lecture circuit.
      Just a thought…

      • November 12, 2013 at 4:10 pm
        Libby says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 2
        Thumb down 0

        Or the b-ball court.

        • November 12, 2013 at 4:17 pm
          FFA says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 7
          Thumb down 0

          Does the B stand for Blue????

          • November 12, 2013 at 4:55 pm
            Libby says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 2

            LOL! I was thinking more of basketball. From what I’ve heard… Just sayin’.

  • November 12, 2013 at 5:25 pm
    Baxtor says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 6
    Thumb down 1

    I don’t care either way on the birth control being covered or not covered. I am also a Christian. With that said, how can these religious institutions argue that by helping to cover the cost of insurance (that includes Birth Control) for their employees violates their religious rights? The reason I ask is, do they fire an employee if they find out they went out drinking over the weekend and got drunk? If not, then my question is why not? The money they are paying that employee is being used for their drunkeness and that is against scripture. We can go on and on about what employee’s use money for that would go against the owner’s beliefs. So by purchasing an insurance plan that must cover birth control, that’s where they draw the line? Anyway, just food for thought.

    • November 12, 2013 at 5:48 pm
      FFA says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 6
      Thumb down 1

      Baxtor – How can I get sued for a building that burnt down that was not covered when I got their signature on a waiver that explained the building was not covered???? BTW, it burnt down because of a faulty electric feed – they tapped into the power before the meter.

      If you can answer my question, then I’ll try and answer yours…
      Point being – something just don’t make any sense…

      • November 13, 2013 at 3:12 pm
        Agent says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 3
        Thumb down 1

        FFA, On E&O claims, the client may allege they didn’t know what they were signing and sues you anyway. You still have to defend it. Who do the people getting their policies cancelled due to the lies of the President sue? Can you imagine a class action suit with 100 million on it? Material misrepresentation is a biggie with E&O claims.

    • November 13, 2013 at 3:05 pm
      Pat says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 2
      Thumb down 1

      When a company pays all or part of the cost of health insurance, they are directly supporting the provisions of the plan, hence the objection to covering contraceptives. When a company pays an employee a salary and that employee in turn decides to spend his/her money on any number of vices, it is the employees money, not the employers. The former is akin to me lending you my car and then you get into an accident. In this case I have liability as the owner. On the other hand if I sell you my car and then you get into an accident, I have no liability.

  • November 13, 2013 at 12:24 am
    ijs says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 10
    Thumb down 0

    Obama knew the website wasn’t ready, all he had to do was postpone the individual mandate for one year. He might have been seen as a compromiser, he would have avoided the shutdown and probably created some good faith across the aisle. He knew that postponing this was probably the best course of action he could have dealt in good faith with the American people until our government was in a better position to make this work. Instead, in his arrogance, he chose to lie and dig in his heels. His narcissistic, activist, unyielding incompetent heels.

    And some of you want a single payer??? You want this bunch of unaccomplished morons taking care of your healthcare??? Please explain to me on what planet (no pun intended) is this a good idea.

    • November 13, 2013 at 10:40 am
      Agent says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 5
      Thumb down 1

      Apparently Slick Willy and Diane Feinstein don’t think it is a good idea now either.

  • November 13, 2013 at 12:59 pm
    jw says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 1
    Thumb down 3

    Just by reading the articles and comments on IJ, I think the biggest problem with the ACA is mandated minimum coverage. Am I up to speed now?

    (i said biggest problem not only problem)

  • November 13, 2013 at 1:53 pm
    nomesaneman says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 11
    Thumb down 0

    Birth control seems to be one of the carrots (among other things) they are dangling in front of the young people to get them to sign up. I’m sure there will be another article about this tomorrow, but the marketing to the young folks is quite something:

    http://www.uproxx.com/webculture/2013/11/got-insurance-ads-obamacare-sure-get-people-talking/

    At least it looks like they got Miley Cyrus on board with the pills.

    I’m a 60′s guy, but these ads — I don’t know. I am feeling old…Helen Gurley Brown, Gloria Steinem where are you??

  • November 14, 2013 at 9:47 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 3
    Thumb down 0

    Libby said- ” I never said it should be thrown out all together. Because something is better than nothing, which is what the Republicans have given us”
    I have heard you say this several times and it simply is not true. If you listen or watch the liberal media spout off you are uninformed. The Republicans have, at least on 5 or more occasions offered bills on healthcare reform and some dating before Obamacare. Just read this article in Forbes.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/28/seriously-the-republicans-have-no-health-plan/



Add a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*

More News
More News Features