Barb- no they wont. The employess get sent to Obamacareless. It’s the plan from the left the whole time. Single payer is the socialist agenda in the WH. The middle class is going to get screwed….lean forward.
Not at all. But I think a religious exemption is not appropriate for a for-profit business. If so, it would open the floodgates for other ways to evade the law.
A religious institution has always meant a church or other non-profit entity based on religious affiliation. Not a for-profit business. If so, you could say “I’m a Christian and I shouldn’t have to pay income tax because my business is a religious institution.”
Yep, what Libby says. This question needs to be settled and I am glad that the Supreme Court is hearing it. Let the chips fall where they may on the various birth control and ACA issues.
Too bad FFA on DRose. Now, he has screwed up both knees. His NBA career will never be the same and he very well could be out of the game in a few short years and end up washing cars like a lot of other former sports stars.
Hey Always, do you think I care what Libby would say to this? I was responding to my buddy FFA who is from Chicago and who has commented on DRose many times over the past few years.
November 27, 2013 at 11:43 am
Libby says:
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To the both dumb A’s (Agent & Always) – I happened to have thumbed up those posts. Those guys always get off task with sports. I don’t mind that. It’s the mad ranting about abortion that get my panties all in a twist. Oh, that’s right. I’m not wearing any! LOL!!!
November 27, 2013 at 11:46 am
Alwasys Amazed says:
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Hi Agent,
You probably care just as much about Libby’s posts as I do. I was just throwing a little sarcasm into the mix.
November 27, 2013 at 10:19 am
Alwways Amazed says:
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Hey you two! You’re getting off the subject topic here! Libby is going her undies all in a bunch! I have been reprimanded for this same behavior before
Hey you two! You’re getting off the subject topic here! Libby is going her undies all in a bunch! I have been reprimanded for this same behavior before!!
That explains a lot. Sorry for being more than one post I know how you love repetition.
November 27, 2013 at 11:16 am
Libby says:
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Yeah, I get enough of it from you and Agent. Abortion, Friedman, Keynes, abortion, Friedman, Keynes bwayk!
November 27, 2013 at 11:41 am
Captain Planet says:
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FFA –
I think D Rose’s delays are mental. The PPACA does cover mental health issues. He should be good to go.
In all seriousness, I can’t believe this injury is going to keep him out all year again. This isn’t close to the ACL injury, from what I’m reading. Maybe they are trying to get ahead of the story this time, so in the event he does come back later this season, it will make their marquis player look better than he did last year. Hate to say it, but it seems my beloved Bulls are cursed in the point guard position. Remember what happened to Jayson Williams. Perhaps Krause sold the team’s soul for all those championships in the 90’s. Or, maybe D Rose is just a wuss and Williams shouldn’t have been driving a motorcycle like his contract read.
Meanwhile Planet, I bet DRose does not miss a check for non-performance and being out almost all of last year and it looks like most of this year. Knees to a basketball player are critical since they make so many quick moves and cuts. My guess from seeing similar injuries in basketball and football is that he may come back, but be average at best. Is he worth the millions he makes at this point? I think the Bulls are stuck with him and he can’t even be traded at this point since he is damaged goods.
Seems like a long time for the Meniscus. I was back on the sball field in 6 weeks. Little bit slower but I could still hit the ball. I thin they are just saying all year but be back in in 6 – 8 weeks depending on how bad the tear is.
November 26, 2013 at 1:40 pm
Retired UW says:
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If the Green family will give up the hundreds-of-millions of profits they have made and re-incorporate as a church, they should be able to withold contraceptives from their healthcare plan.
They would just close and kick the workers to the curb.. Maybe they would Franchise off and then break the company down to under 50 employees by specific entity.
FFA, A $475 million fine/tax each year may just finish them off. I know people who work at Hobby Lobby/Mardel’s in my town and they are very fine people. I am sure Obama will have no problem seeing the Group policy go away next year like they are in thousands of other companies across the country. This is Cloward & Pivin at its finest and we no longer have a free country to conduct business in. Another 13,000 employees down the tube who liked the plan they had and cannot keep it because the libs just have to have that mandate.
FFA, How about a little humor prior to taking off for Thanksgiving?
A guy walks into a crowded public library and asks a cute young thing if she minded if he sat next to her. She said in a very loud voice. NO, I DON’T WANT TO SLEEP WITH YOU! Everyone was staring and he was embarassed and moved to a different table. After a few minutes, she came over to him and said, I am studying Psychology and I know what a man wants. He then replies in a loud voice. $500 FOR ONE NIGHT! That’s absurd. He then whispers in her ear, I am studying law and I know how to screw people.
Freedom Scott? Only if you agree with the left’s definition of freedom. Choosing whether or not to buy health insurance is a freedom the left wants to deny you. Freedom to keep most of your hard earned cash is yet another. If you live in California top federal rate = 39.5% and in California the state income tax is 13%. 39.5% + 13% = 52.5% or more than half your money. And this doesn’t even include Social Security tax, Medicare Tax, Sales tax, Property tax, Gas taxes, vehicle taxes, etc. Freedom Scott? Are you serious?
You obviously don’t get it like everybody else on the left. The point is which doesn’t get through the skulls of those on the left is once you reach a certain income, more than half of every additional $1.00 you make goes into the hands of the government. The fact that this doesn’t disturb you says a lot about you. Also, if you knew anything about basic economics (you obviously do not like most on the left) you would understand this provides a great disincentive to earn more more money which has a huge negative effect on the economy. Combine that with welfare, food stamps and other government programs and you have tons of other incentives not to work. Where do you figure that leads us? Yep, the 1-2% growth the Obama economy is giving us when most recoveries are 5-7% growth.
Dave, the pro golfer Phil Mickelson who lives outside of San Diego figures his earnings are taxed right at 63% when federal, state, county, city, property, sales are figured in. That is why he is strongly considering moving to Arizona, Texas or Florida in the near future. Tiger Woods did it several years ago and saved millions in taxes. We have seen the high tax countries like Greece, France, Britain and others economies go into the tank because they are taking entreprenurial money so there is little or no growth.
November 27, 2013 at 10:33 am
Dave says:
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Agent, Illinois is considering a graduated income tax to help fund their $50 billion pension deficit, rather than fixing the pensions. I was figuring on moving out of this God-forsaken state AFTER retirement, but I may have to push that up. One of my good friends just moved out of Illinois to Florida and is so happy.
November 27, 2013 at 11:29 am
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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Dave, ou obviously don’t get it, like most on the right. The point that doesn’t seem to get through the skulls of those on the right is that tax rates on the top bracket of income are at historic lows. Although many of the tightie-righties love to talk about “the good old days” such as the 1950’s (“people had good values back then”), tax rates on the top levels of income were once above 90%. These days the rich are given more for doing less, which is why the income gap between the most wealthy and those who actually earn a living is historically high. They take more, and we who do the actual work get less for working hard and following the rules. The fact that this doesn’t disturb you says a lot about you. Also, if you knew anything about basic economics (you obviously do not, like most on the right) you would understand that people will grab up every dollar they can get, regardless of the tax rate. The widening income gap provides a great disincentive for people to work hard, since, no matter what they do, they won’t get anywhere. Lack of productivity has a much greater negative effect on the economy than people buying fewer yachts. Where is your “trickle down”? We’ve been waiting to see that for 30 years, but it was just another scam to help the rich hijack more of our nation’s prosperity. Where do you figure that leads us? We’re becoming a third-world country, where a handful of individuals control most of the country’s wealth, while creating disincentives for those in the middle (or lower) to produce at maximum efficiency. That’s why we don’t have more growth.
If the top tax rate is such of a burden on the poor little rich boys, I have a solution: They can trade incomes with me, and I will happily pay the higher tax rate, and they can pay my lower tax rate. Problem solved. Any takers?
I have never once complained about being in a higher tax bracket than where I used to be (and many still are). Anyone who does, is a spoiled ingrate. There are a lot of people who have worked harder than you. If it weren’t for this great nation and those who have sacrificed, you wouldn’t have had the opportunity to be in a higher tax bracket. How much do you think our nation’s soldiers get paid, protecting all you spoiled little rich boys? The least you can do is appreciate all that’s been done for you.
November 27, 2013 at 11:41 am
Libby says:
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I can’t thumb you up enough, Shirley. Wish I knew Sarge’s trick.
November 27, 2013 at 1:22 pm
FFA says:
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dave , could be cause its cold out there right now…
yes, our state sucks!!!! It will get better when the Cubs win the series…
December 3, 2013 at 2:50 pm
Agent says:
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Dave, the City of Detroit is in bankruptcy and the pensioners are raising cain about losing their “benefits”. Their benefits are largely responsible for the bankruptcy and there is no money in the till.
November 26, 2013 at 5:46 pm
New Yorker says:
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So, it’s OK with you if health insurers sell crappy policies that provide little coverage? Buyer beware is not appropriate for health insurance. The minimum essential coverage requirements in the ACA were/are absolutely the right thing to do.
New Yorker, I for one am very happy to go with out Maternity, Birth Control and Abortion coverage.
If premiums were actually Affordable, I am sure most everyone would not care about picking up that coverage. Only Demographic I have found so far were people on I CHIP (Il Version of Pool Coverage) and Max rated Groups. I am finding most people are very upset about OBamas definition of Affordable when the premiums are 2X.
FFA – do you not think insurance companies are smart enough when setting rates to factor that in for someone over 50? You may not need maternity or birth control, but let’s face it you are subject to more sickness and disease than a 20 year old. So just because you get the coverage does not mean you are paying any more for it.
So it’s OK for the government to decide what kind of insurance you have to buy? How would you like it if they told you what kind of car or home or toaster you had to buy? This is how Communism works. Some bureaucrat decides what people want and how much of it. How many times does Communism have to fail before you guys on the left understand it is a bad economic system?
Dave, Communism’s central theme is the ownership, control of the means of production. The Central Committee decides how many cars they will make, toasters or any other product. Back in the old USSR, they would announce their goals on a 5 year plan for agricultural production. They never made their goals because farmers had no incentive to grow more since they could keep only a small portion to live on. Communism is perfectly happy having their citizens living on a subsistence income and the elite live in luxury. It has failed every time it has been tried in the history of the world, but some still see it as the way to go.
Likewise, republicans are perfectly happy having their citizens living on a subsistence income and the wealthy elite living in luxury. This has already been tried and failed in the history of the world. Why do you think revolutions happen? Extreme disparity is what led to the communist revolution in Russia. Is that what you want? Apparently you do.
November 27, 2013 at 1:55 pm
Always Amazed says:
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Shirl,
There are a lot of very wealthy democrats out there too. What is Pelosi’s worth these days? We know Obama has made millions in the past 5 years and he even gave himself a 50K raise because the 400K just wasn’t enough money for him to live on. So, please stop it with your banter that the conservatives want all poor people to die off. Conservatives donate more to charity then democrats to and you’d think that would be the other way around because you libs are just bleeding hearts and just can’t to see anyone suffer. Pffffffft.
November 27, 2013 at 2:53 pm
FFA says:
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Your right Shirley. I am sure Orah is in the poverty range.
November 27, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Connie says:
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I agree with Always Amazed. Stop ranting about the wealthy Republicans. How much money are the Kennedys worth? Why did (current Secretary of State) John Kerry keep his YACHT in Rhode Island so as to avoid Massachusetts taxes? Other examples could be given. It isn’t just the Repubs who are wealthy.
November 27, 2013 at 10:22 am
Libby says:
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Dave – I agree the government should not mandate what people should buy, but they should mandate that all these options are offered at an affordable price. It should be the individual’s choice what they buy.
Good point Dave. We need to get rid of those mandatory auto insurance laws, right? Do you have a responding fire department or a police department? Communism! Do you drive on roads funded by the government? Communism!
Yes, and do you use the public library? Communism! How about the postal service? Communism! Dave, I think you need to define for the classroom what Communism is and then use it in a sentence with the PPACA. I’m curious to see how you address the private carriers providing the care in THE definition (not YOUR definition) of “Communism”.
November 27, 2013 at 1:54 pm
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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Oh! Oh! Teacher! Pick me!
I can use it in a sentence. “Anything that doesn’t benefit the rich is communism.”
November 27, 2013 at 4:35 pm
FFA says:
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Shirley, I was around when Mandatory Ins became law in IL. First year – premiums jumped at least 10%.
So yeas, scrap mandatory insurance. People that would not buy insurance buy from crappy fly by night carriers that don’t pay anyways. Let the state pull their licenses. Next time they get pulled over for speeding, they get cuffed and carted away…
November 29, 2013 at 12:58 pm
Alwasy Amazed says:
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Not everyone here in the USA owns a car, Shirl girl.
November 27, 2013 at 10:41 am
Alwasys Amazed says:
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“crappy policies”? New Yorker, I have a great policy through Humana. It’s an 80/20 plan. I’m 56 years of age, single, with no children. I do not need maternity, abortion, in vetro fertilization, the morning after pill, or prenatal coverage. What I need is a healthcare policy that is going to cover the catastrophic things that can happen to me like getting breast cancer. Which happened just last year around this very time. And, that is the type of coverage people in there 50s should have. I don’t need to be paying in premium for “services” that I am never going to use. I do not have a substandard plan and I’m tired of Obama and his minions calling it that because it’s not. What is this is a total distribution of wealth making us older people pay for something that we’re never going to use so we can pay for someone who is on a subsidy to have. This should be illegal! We have become a totally nanny state and Obamacarless is exactly what we should be calling the ACA. He doesn’t give a rats ass because he isn’t forced to be on it. Nor does any of the members of congress or his cronies – lobbyists – that pay him millions in contributions to keep it that way. Obama wrecked our healthcare as we know it for 30K people. Millions have lost their coverage because of 30 million. And now the employee “grandfathered” plans are going to be getting canceled as well. Geezelouise. Get a clue people. We have all been duped. I’m proud I didn’t vote for him – I caught on to his lying when he denied that he didn’t have a clue about Rev. White’s anti American and racist speeches when he was a member of that radical “church” for 20 years. He lied back then just as he’s doing to us now. Makes my blood boil.
Always – don’t you think rates for people over the age of 50 reflect the fact that they will not use those coverages you mentioned but that you have a higher probability of using if for cancer, diabetes, and other disease? What makes you think you are paying more for it just because it’s thrown in?
It’s like a GL policy with $15k med pay limit. If I want to lower it to $5k, I get no return premium. Or adding an enhancement endorsement because it has 1 thing I need and 10 other things I don’t. If I delete the other 10 things, I still pay the same premium.
Nice try, Libby, but no. I have received my renewal letter from Humana and my premium this year is just slightly higher at $395.39/month from the previous year. Humama did advise that the same plan with the ACA would be a lot higher because of all the new benefits that were added. Need I go any further? They did also advised that the Illinois Department of Insurance has not yet sent them a letter of explanation on what the ACA options for the same coverage would be. Gee, I wonder why the delay? Nice going Illinois.
November 27, 2013 at 11:46 am
Libby says:
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Jeez. And you believed what Humana told you? You’re dumber than I thought.
November 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm
Always Amazed says:
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Libby,
I’m not going to stoop down to your level of ignorance and you take that level to an all time new low. Yes, I believe what Human has told me because unlike our Liar In Chief, they know what they are talking about. Obama has proved his incompetence over and over again and people are finally starting to wake the blazes up and they are no longer as trusting as they once were of the community part organizer that rose up out of the ashes to become king. And, deary, once that trust is lost, it’s very hard to get it back. And all we can say with a smug look on our faces is WE TOLD YOU SO! What is his popularity rating these days? Some place in the 30s? BWAAHAHAHA!
November 27, 2013 at 2:15 pm
FFA says:
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Always, I don’t think the hold up is IL – for a change.
I believe the carriers are sitting there scratching their heads trying to game plan this curve ball.
November 27, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Always Amazed says:
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Hi FAA,
A lot of our BC/BS clients are screaming loud and clear on how their rates have good through the roof. I’m not sure if it’s because Humana’s plans are being extended for a year and the ACA doesn’t have to do anything for a while or what. BC/BS has been tied to the government for ages. We had ICHIP (Illinois Catastrophic Health Insurance Plan) for the people who had preexisting conditions for those had lost their plans run by BC/BS. It was expensive but very much like the same plans the ACA had since it covered everything including maternity and the kitchen sink. This is pretty much the plan that BC/BS is rolling out w/the ACA with huge premiums for those who aren’t eligible for a subsidy.
November 27, 2013 at 4:31 pm
FFA says:
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Always, The ICHIP people are one of the demographics that are getting a cheaper rate. Also, Max Rated Groups will be better off getting individual polices off exchange.
November 27, 2013 at 11:36 am
Agent says:
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Dave, I couldn’t be paid enough to live and try to work in the cesspool of Illinois considering how corrupt they are and how they are taxing people into oblivion. Florida does have the climate except for the occasional hurricane that comes in and blows everything away. It is the retirement state and there is no state income tax. Texas, where I am from also has many advantages, but we are a weather state and get everything from hurricanes to tornados. All in all, it is a great state, conservative and also no state income tax.
Yes Libby, there is a reason why Texas has created more jobs in the past 5 years than all the rest of the country combined. The blue states who tax their citizens the heaviest are losing population. Why is that?
December 2, 2013 at 11:24 am
Libby says:
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Wrong again, Agent. California has created the most new jobs. Texas is #4. You are so easy to de-bunk. See where I get the “9 out 10 times you’re wrong?” Do some research for crying out loud.
So Libby, I see where another one of your favored politicians in Colorado who was trying to ban guns was facing recall and she decided to resign rather than face the music. Evie Hudak is the name should you care to check it. What is this now, three? Two already gone and now three. Coupled with the movement to secede from the state, I think the Marijuana smokers may be in big trouble up there in the mile high state.
December 2, 2013 at 2:34 pm
Libby says:
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Uh, Agent, I think marijuana smokers are in great shape in Colorado. What are you talking about?
And I’ve said before, if elected officials are not serving the interests of their constituents, then they should be recalled. That is democracy (and I know the U.S. is a Republic) at work. I don’t live in northern Colorado, so the fact they are recalled doesn’t bother me.
The secession is over and is old news.
December 2, 2013 at 2:42 pm
Agent says:
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Leave it to you Libby to quote a government website to try to prove your employment numbers. These are the same people who have been fudging employment figures since 09 and conveniently leave out the citizens who have dropped out of the system after collecting their 99 weeks and have made it down to the Social Security office to collect disability. What about all the thousands of employers who have closed down in California and moved out to friendlier states like Texas & Arizona? It is pretty hard to hire workers if the business is gone. Try again and don’t quote a government website like Ron likes to do. Government credibility is non-existent.
December 2, 2013 at 3:17 pm
Libby says:
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Where else would you recommend I look for those kind of statistics, Agent? Just because it’s a government site doesn’t mean the data is incorrect.
That’s a excuse. Try again with data of your own.
December 3, 2013 at 8:05 am
Ron says:
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Agent,
Until you ptovide your own data and/or statistics with a cited source, do not judge me or anyone else for actually doing SOME research. I would be very interested to see the wages and benefits of these new jobs. Not your opinion, facts. I have seen Governor Perry travelling across the country telling employers to relocate to Texas where taxes are low, little regulation, and if you happen to blow up a town, we will ask the Federal Government to save the day.
You did not debunk my premise that Conservative Republican President Reagan DID NOT LOWER SPENDING AND DEBT. I do not care why. If President Obama is responsible for spending, debt and deficit, so is President Reagan, period.
Here are some more eye opening numbers about our debt by party. Since President Carter, Democratic Presidents have added a toal of $6.776 trillion and Republican Presidents have added $9.263 trillion. By average per year, Democratic Presidents have added $423.5 billion per year and Republican Presidents have added $463.15 per year.
Please tell me again why we should elect a Republican President if we are trying to lower our debt.
December 3, 2013 at 12:09 pm
Libby says:
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Good one, Ron. But he won’t respond. He never does when he’s backed into a corner.
November 26, 2013 at 1:48 pm
Huh! says:
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The Bible says we ought to pay our taxes, not try to avoid them, which is beside thepoint here. A biblical basis can be made for not engaging in birth control, in which case biblically based businesses should not be required to fund any birth control pills or other procedures that prevent or terminate conception.
Sebelious is the named defendant on both these cases. Out of pure business smarts, this chick needs to go based on the fact that she is drawing heavy legal bills.
Wonder if her boss would kick the prune to the curb???? To appease the other side – Sara needs a job…. I don’t think she would go along to get along.
None the less, gives the s Ct a chance to sit back and say, lets get ride of this thing all together. Maybe someone in Govt is listening to the masses…
Rules are changing all the time Libby. Truth is now partial truth. Affordable is more expensive. Substandard is what we want but cant have. Lines are blurred. Definitions are changing. Govt functions.
“Substandard is what we want but can’t have”? Um…not when you find out you need an expensive prescription or that you have an unexpected pregnancy. Nobody wants substandard then.
November 26, 2013 at 6:03 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, to borrow a favorite term from Clinton, it depends on what the definition of is is. Liberals are famous for parsing words to fit their agenda. Right is wrong, wrong is right, 2+2=3 in the new Core Curriculum being forced into the public schools so we can dumb down the society even more than it is currently. By the way Progressivism is an insidious disease. I wonder if it is covered under mental conditions under Obamacare. Most of these jokers on IJ spouting off their liberal ideas could use some serious couch time with a Psychiatrist.
November 26, 2013 at 6:09 pm
FFA says:
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And one more point New Yorker, If I get my wife pregnant, I wont need any health insurance because it would just plain and simple be a Miracle. I’ll make a fortune selling the story to everyone but OPrah. She want to send the money out of the US. So, no. Only American Companies with American Employees.
November 27, 2013 at 10:23 am
Libby says:
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Agent – we don’t parse words. You just have a problem with your reading comprehension and your understanding of the spoken word.
December 3, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, I saw a good email on Famous Presidential Lies. See the following:
LBJ – We were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin.
Nixon – I am not a crook.
Clinton – I did not have sex with that woman… Ms Lewinski.
Bush 41 – Read my lips – No new taxes.
Obama – I will have the most transparent administration in history.
TARP is to fund shovel ready jobs.
I am focused like a laser on creating jobs.
The IRS is not targeting anyone.
It was a spontaneous riot about a movie.
I will put an end to the type of politics that breeds division, conflict and cynicism.
You didn’t build that!
I will restore trust in Government.
The Cambridge Cops acted stupidly.
The public will have 5 days to look at every bill that lands on my desk.
It’s not my red line – it is the world’s red line.
Whistle Blowers will be protected in my administration.
I am not spying on American Citizens.
Obamacare will be good for America.
You can keep your insurance coverage if you like it.
You can keep your family doctor.
Premiums will be lowered $2,500 for families.
It’s just like shopping at Amazon.com
I knew nothing about “Fast & Furious” gun running to Mexican Cartels.
I knew nothing about IRS targeting Conservative Groups.
I knew nothing about what happened in Benghazi.
And the biggest of all: I, Barack Hussein Obama, pledge to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
December 3, 2013 at 2:46 pm
Libby says:
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You forgot Dubya:
“We have discovered weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.”
November 26, 2013 at 2:29 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, calling Sebelius a prune is a kind term. She is an inept leftist minion who is about as lost as Incompetano was as Homeland Security head. By, the way, when she was Governor of Kansas, she took campaign donations from Tiller, the baby killer abortionist who should have been shut down years ago for doing very late term abortions. We know about liberals records on killing babies, don’t we?
That is not the point. The point is whether a Corporation has the same rights as an individual when it comes to religious freedoms. The Corporation has no more right to force their beliefs on their employees anymore than their individual owners.
You are the same person that will bitch about them not providing coverage after it’s cancelled. You don’t want the companys provided healthcare don’t buy it. It’s your choice…you do like choice…right.
I am not debating the merits of the law here. I am debating whether a for-profit company has the right to hide behind religious immunity from the law.
Truth be told, I think the law should state there should be a birth control option available at an affordable price. Same with maternity. If you don’t need/want them, don’t buy them. But they should be offered. Is that choice enough for you?
Lib- Walmarts running a special on the pill for $10 a month. That affordable birth control?
November 27, 2013 at 11:18 am
Libby says:
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For me, yes. Can’t speak for the single mother with 3 kids that really needs it, though. That $10 might be what she needs to feed her family. Oh, and don’t forget the doctor visit to get the prescription to take to Walmart. How much is that?
November 27, 2013 at 12:37 pm
jack says:
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Libby- that’s really funny…$10 a month to feed 3 kids. How about she just cut out the trip to McD’s once a month?
November 27, 2013 at 12:54 pm
Libby says:
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What about the doctor visit? That could be another $50 to $100. Do you think a resourceful single mother of 3 can’t feed her kids on $110 a month? You’d be wrong.
November 27, 2013 at 12:56 pm
Libby says:
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Besides, it might be a matter of “I have $10 right now. I need my BC pills, but my kids are hungry. Which do I choose?”
You obviously have never had to make those kind of choices. There goes your arrogance showing again.
November 27, 2013 at 1:33 pm
jack says:
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Libby- actually i was in that position in 2006 buy my how times have changed. BECAUSE I GOT OFF MY ASS AND DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
You showed your ignorance and judgemental nature in your last post their Libby.
November 27, 2013 at 1:59 pm
Always Amazed says:
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Jack,
Libby isn’t judgmental. Nor is she racist. Don’t you read her posts?
November 26, 2013 at 2:25 pm
Agent says:
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Libby, Government should not be in the position to dictate to a business what they can buy, sell or provide benefits to employees or anything else. If the employee doesn’t like the choices offered on the benefits, they are free to go somewhere else to work. I have not seen any articles that Hobby Lobby or Mardel employees are unhappy with the company they work for. In fact, they do like having Sunday off so they can worship in the church of their choice.
Agent, if the employer doesn’t want to pay for birth control or maternity then they shouldn’t. The employee usually has to pay their portion. Make those coverages optional and the employee pick up the extra cost. But there should be an option provided because Hobby Lobby has no right to force their beliefs on their employees just as you say the government has no right to force theirs on the employer. I know you won’t agree, but I’ll ask anyway. Would that be fair?
“make those coverages optional and the employee pick up the extra cost” really Libby…serious? Thats what we call go buy it your freaking self! Nobody told you you couldn’t go buy it yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 26, 2013 at 6:04 pm
FFA says:
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Jack, OBama told us we couldn’t but it for ourselves.
November 27, 2013 at 10:26 am
Libby says:
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Jack: If my employer offers a comprehensive plan without maternity coverage, do you think I can go buy maternity coverage by itself at a reasonable cost?
November 26, 2013 at 3:04 pm
Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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Hey Libby,
“The Corporation has no more right to force their beliefs on their employees anymore than their individual owners.” So why then should the government have the right to force Obama’s beliefs on a business and on a business owner? And I still don’t understand the logic of having insurance pay for birth control. Birth control pills are not a healing medicine. Us taxpayers shouldn’t be paying for them under obamacare!!!
Cheetoh – the inclusion of birth control coverage by the government is not a religious belief. As I’ve stated before, I think there should be an option mandated, but the choice to buy it or not. Then the choice is the employee’s and not the corporation’s.
Libby,
Why should birth control be a covered item on medical insurance at all? It is not medically necessary in almost all cases, albeit several exceptions. Birth control is a choice: pills, condoms, … The government should not be mandating it be covered, especially under obamacare, where the taxpayers are subsidizing the premiums.
November 27, 2013 at 10:28 am
Libby says:
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Cheetoh – I think any insurance carrier providing maternity coverage pre and post natal care would want to provide birth control coverage. It’s a helluva lot cheaper than a pregnancy. It’s call risk control. Not to mention most birth control is obtained by prescription, which makes a doctor visit necessary. That’s why it should be covered.
November 27, 2013 at 10:48 am
Alwasys Amazed says:
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Libby, those comprehensive plans were one could choose to have maternity were the first plans to go when the ACA got put into place back in 2010. Maternity is no longer an option – it’s a mandate just like all the other useless “benefits” we now have on our “superior” plans we are being forced on.
I understand it is a mandate now. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about making it a mandate that it’s offered, but it’s the individual’s choice to purchase it or not. It’s called a compromise. Maybe that’s why you didn’t recognize it. Republicans aren’t big on compromise.
November 27, 2013 at 11:42 am
Agent says:
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Libby, It would be a lot cheaper on the American People if Obamacare was dismantled and discarded and start off by doing common sense solutions, not mandating or making people buy what the government tells them to buy.
November 27, 2013 at 11:49 am
Libby says:
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As usual Agent, you did not comprehend my suggestion. You are dumber than a box of rocks.
I said an option from the carrier should be mandated at an affordable price and choice to buy left up to the individual.
Didn’t we agree on that approach on another website?
November 27, 2013 at 2:07 pm
Always Amazed says:
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It would be nice if maternity and all the other “benefits” that we now have mandated were an option. But, you’re missing Obama’s point. Who then would be paying for these benefits so those who are eligible for the subsidies could have them. The money has to come from someplace and it’s the rest of us folks that are funding those wonderful benefits for subsidy crowd. This is the distribution of wealth we keep trying to tell you about. This is exactly what it is and how it’s starting. I’m scared to imagine what else we’re going to have to fit the bill for. You do remember the Liar In Chief’s wife saying something to the effect of “somebody is going to have to give up a bigger piece of their pie” don’t you? In my opinion I think it should Moochelle.
December 3, 2013 at 12:37 pm
Agent says:
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Website Ron is at it again. It is interesting that you quote Paul Krugman, a noted leftist former Princeton professor who is a columnist for the NY Times. He has about the same credibility of Obama which is sinking to new lows. I don’t need websites to see clearly what is going on. Your President has run up $6 Trillion in debt in less than 5 years. GW had the attack of 9/11 and the War on Terror to deal with and his spending was still less than yours. Don’t get me started on Ronnie. He had to pick up the mess Carter made in 4 years and try to recover the economy which he did a good job on. Only his Speaker Tip O’Neil welched on the big spending agenda or the deficits would have been much lower. I lived that era sonny boy and I know what happened. You resort to phony websites to tell you Ronny was a Keynsian spender. You couldn’t be more wrong.
You know, Agent? All you do when backed into a corner is try to discredit the source. Considering you have NEVER cited a source, your disdain for other people’s sources is laughable. Come back when you want to have a big boy conversation.
Zero facts Agent is at it again. Just keep spinning away into denial. I thought Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, yet all you can do is blame others. HYPOCRITE!! Try holding your elected representatives accountable for once.
When President Obama’s defenders use the fact the he inheritied the worse economic collapse since the Great Depression, which also started during a Republican Presidency, they get criticized for blaming Bush, but somehow it is OK to defend President Reagan by blaming Carter. He did not just increase spending the first few years to save the economy, he continued throghout his term and it actually escalated after 3 years in office.
I wonder what Friedman would have said about President Reagan’s “spend to save the economy” approach.
Stop blaming Congress for spending during President Reagan’s term and President Obama during his. Either the buck stops with the President or it does not. Pick a side.
Just because a website does not support your narrative, it does not mean it is phony. Provide your own sources to debunk mine.
If your Economics professors were to read your comments without any sources, they would be embarassed.
Keep on spinning and keep on defending Obama Ron. You are a liberal Democrat in Independent clothing. You should join the legion of Independents who have a brain and are rejecting all the lies told by this President.
If your definition of spinning is providing facts that support my piosition and cite my sources, then I will keep spinning.
Thank you for not answering my questions, again. There is no proof that President Reagan was a true fiscal Conservative. A true fiscal Conservative does not increase government spending, the deficit, and sign 11 tax increases.
You can criticize me for utilizing websites to gather information, but at least I give you an opportunity to research what I use. You provide nothing because you have nothing.
December 3, 2013 at 2:17 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
Here is some more good reading about Conservative President Reagan.
Hey Ron, since you like everyone to provide proof of opinions, I encourage you to “google” F A Hayek, the Noble winning economist who wrote a book called The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism. You may actually learn something. He goes into some detail about how Capitalism is far superior to Socialism in every way. I know this will go against your belief system since you are a huge defender of Obama and his thug belief that he can control every aspect of our society, but it is a big lie and it is being shown every day in this country.
Hey, Agent – no-one provides proof of opinions. We provide proof of facts. Those pesky little things you are in short supply of.
You will not get an argument from me that Socialism is superior to Capitalism. I’m not a Socialist. You saying I am over and over ad nauseum does not make it so.
Hayek does give the facts only you and Ron ignore them. You and Ron both cite liberal talking points which you call facts and then say you prefer Capitalism over Socialism. I really had a laugh over the Paul Krugman referenced article. Guess what Libby & Ron, your President is the biggest Socialist ever to grace the White House and his aim is to ultimately dismantle all we stand for. Capitalism is the greatest economic engine ever created in the world and you are perfectly happy seeing this guy tear it down. You have been smoking too much of that legal Colorado weed.
Please list ALL of the liberal talking points I have cited. Showing PROOF that President Reagan was not the glorious fiscal Conservative you make him out to be is not a liberal talking point. It is evidence.
I have read Hayek and agree with a lot of his philosophy especially his Business-cycle Theory. Did you not notice that I cited an article from the Austrian Economics website of the Ludwig von Mises Institute? Unlike you, I am open to learning many different economic philosophies and respect what they write even when I do not agree.
If you want to go against someone on economics, stick with Libby. (no offense Libby. I know economics is not your strong suit) I will crush you!!
Please list everything President Obama has implemented that meets the definition of Socialism.
Why do you refer to Hayek as a Nobel Prize winning economist, but not Krugman? You need to learn to respect those who have achieved the highest honor in their field.
December 3, 2013 at 6:50 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
One last thing, wasn’t I the one who called for an end to Progressive Socialism when you were content to a 100 year break because we would be long gone?
December 4, 2013 at 9:12 am
Libby says:
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Agent – calling someone a Socialist does not make them one. Rant on, good buddy.
Ron – no offense taken, although I am learning. Quickly.
November 26, 2013 at 4:58 pm
Celtica says:
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So, who wants to venture a guess on the SCOTUS ruling?
Does an employer have a right to impose their religious beliefs on individuals?
They don’t FFA and that is the reason we have a screwed up society on the verge of ruin. Government stopped listening to their constituents many years ago. Elections are getting rigged and the same elitists are still in office doing their edicts and regulations we have to live with. I saw an interesting town hall back before Obamacare was passed. It was the now infamous Mary Landrieu of Louisiana. The folks were giving her a lot of trouble on why they didn’t want it passed and she had a distressed look on her face. Guess what, she voted for it anyway after receiving a huge bribe from Reid. Now, she is running for re-election and the folks haven’t forgot. I look for her to be packing her bag next year.
So, Jack. Answer my question. If my employer offers a comprehensive plan without maternity coverage, do you think I can go buy maternity coverage by itself at a reasonable cost?
And don’t deviate from this particular question, because it’s a 2-parter.
Libby- no you can’t. But you can go buy an indiv policy with it included,pay for the pregnancy yourself, or find another job. IT’S NOT YOUR EMPLOYERS JOB TO PROVIDE IT AND/OR PAY FOR IT.
So if my employer offers a plan that has everything I need but maternity, why should I have to forgoe that plan and pay MORE for insurance?
Why shouldn’t my employer provide a plan without maternity but offer maternity coverage as a separate option? Then I’m the one paying for the maternity, but can also take advantage of the basic plan my employer is offering to his employees?
Why is that not a win-win?
November 27, 2013 at 12:17 pm
Celtica says:
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So if an employer doesn’t offer maternity coverage that means none of their employees (and this includes prospective fathers) can grow families — which is Pro Life.
You guys need to get a better argument. Oh, and better candidates.
November 27, 2013 at 12:47 pm
jack says:
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Libby- how is it a win-win when the gov forces an employer to offer something that drives the cost up so much the employer decides to stop offering the coverage to the employee or the spouse?
You had a part 2?
November 27, 2013 at 12:51 pm
Libby says:
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That was part 2. How does it drive up the cost if the employer isn’t paying for it? If the employer pays for the plan he wants to (or a portion for that matter) and the employee pays for the things that aren’t included in the plan himself, how is that driving the cost up to the employer?
Again, it’s a compromise. Something you Republicans aren’t used to. Mandate that coverage has to be offered, but not paid for by the employer. Why is that so hard to understand?
November 27, 2013 at 1:14 pm
jack says:
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Libby- Do you write group health insurance?
November 27, 2013 at 3:19 pm
jack says:
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Libby- Do you write group health and are you familiar with the laws and how they apply to employer contribution requirements?
November 27, 2013 at 4:25 pm
FFA says:
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Jack, libby is brick & mortar – no health.
December 2, 2013 at 9:15 am
Libby says:
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No, I don’t write benefits. P&C only. But if you’re going to tell me it doesn’t work that way now, all I can say is “change it.”
November 27, 2013 at 11:02 am
Original Bob says:
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If you can’t afford kids don’t have them. I paid for our hospital bills when mine were born as I had no health insurance coverage at that time. The hospital put me on a payment plan which was less costly per month than a health insurance policy. When did we start thinking that if something is not insured we were being denied health care? Why are we providing coverage for optional activities?
Libby, if I am as dumb as a box of rocks, you are dumber than a door knob. When will you understand that we don’t want the government to mandate anything on Healthcare coverage? That is the very reason insurance is unaffordable on the ACA. Mandates must go and the only way to do that is to dump this Progressive Dream.
Well, that’s where you and I disagree Agent. I think it should be a mandate that coverage is offered at an affordable price, but not mandated that you have to buy it. I want to be able to get the coverage I want/need and not have an insurance company tell me I can’t have it, and not buy the coverage I don’t/want need. Isn’t that what you Republicans have been bitching about?
Yes Libby, we have disagreed many thousand times because you have swallowed the Progressive position hook, line and sinker and won’t listen to Conservative ideas and really don’t mind having your freedoms taken away by an all powerful central government who wants to control all aspects of our lives.
It’s only affordable IF you qualify for a subsidy. Haven’t you been paying attention? The woman in the photo opp that was misquoted isn’t eligible now for a subsidy because at 50K she makes too much money and now she can’t afford the wonderful ACA with all its promise of grander. This affordable price you keep bringing up is not affordable to all. Obama lied! Our premiums would be reduced by $2500 per family we all heard him spout off when he was running. What a crock of shit.
December 2, 2013 at 9:17 am
Libby says:
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I’m not talking about what is. I’m talking about what should be. I’ve already said the ACA is a disaster and needs a complete overhaul. But when I come up with suggestions for change, all I hear is “that’s not how it is now.” I KNOW that.
December 2, 2013 at 6:05 pm
FFA says:
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Libby says – ” I think it should be a mandate that coverage is offered at an affordable price”
If it was affordable, we would not be having this conversation. Everyone I am pricing except for the previously defined demographics (ICHIP & MAX RATED GROUPS)is going to have an increase in cost. Adverse selection (me included) is going to have a decrease.
Free Unicorns for everyone! You want the coverage, then get ready to pay for it. And keep your liberal pie holes shut when your premiums and taxes go up. I’m going to go ahead and get my I told you so in here.
My religion adhears strictly to the Commandment “Thou Shall Not Kill”. Why then should I have to pay income tax that might provide money to be used by the CIA to murder people with their drones? I demand to be exempted from paying any Federal tax! It’s God’s will!
Thou Shall Not Kill applies to the innocent. The Bible does not say you can’t defend yourself with deadly force. Jesus suggested you have a concealed weapons permit.
Jack – are you saying all people killed by drones are not innocent? Innocent of what? Who decides who is and who isn’t innocent? I thought that was God’s job, not man’s.
So Libby, why is your President killing so many with drones if innocents are getting killed? Why did he brag about it saying I am pretty good at killing people. Obamacare is another manifestation of killing people since so many are losing their healthcare and will die without their coverage.
Trust me Libby, your President really likes his drones and killing enemies with them. Unfortunately, they do kill innocents on the ground, but they are considered collateral damage.
November 27, 2013 at 12:48 pm
Libby says:
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Just what does that have to do with what Jack was saying? You don’t know any more about what Obama likes and doesn’t like than I do. But at least I heard about his comment from the person it was made to and got the context of it instead of making up shit like you do.
Happy Thanksgiving.
November 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm
Always Amazed says:
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Great sadness! Pfffffffft!
November 27, 2013 at 4:23 pm
FFA says:
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Libby – yes Bush.
December 2, 2013 at 9:21 am
Libby says:
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Once and for all, I did not advocate killing Bush. I said he should be tried for treason.
It just so happens the penalty for treason, at this time in this country, is death.
Dave twisted that around and said I wanted to kill Bush. I did not say that.
But if it happened I’m sure I would not shed a tear.
How do you determine the “innocent” ones? Just the Republicans?
November 27, 2013 at 1:05 pm
jack says:
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Libby- Innocent people die every day. Some accidental,some intentionally at the hands of bad people. You know that. God judges our heart and soul. He gave us free will.
I do appreciate your question about who decides who is and who isn’t innocent. Outside of God,I think that depends on who’s in power. And thats the problem! When we like the person in power and their definition of right(innocent) and wrong(not innocent)we are ok with their judgements. But when you have man making the rules they can change depending again on who’s in power. You want to take religion out of politics, you end up with men making laws to fit their definition of right vs. wrong.
Well, who gets to decide which religion? Again, you have man making the decision of whose religion is “right” and whose is “wrong.” We just need to stop killing each other. Period.
Jack, in Texas, we take the right to defend ourselves seriously and have a right to use deadly force when someone breaks in our house. All we have to do is make sure they are inside and we are good to go.
Not in gun free zones in many of the liberal states Libby. That is an open invitation to a thug to rob or rape the helpless. Chicago is a prime example of strict gun control and they have the worst murder rate in the country.
Since A doesn’t want to pay for B’s maternity care who doesn’t want to pay for C’s birth control, why don’t we just get rid of healthcare insurance entirely. If you get sick, you get sick, deal with it yourself. Why expect me to pay for your cancer if I never get cancer?
You really don’t have a clue do you? Health insurance should be for the catastrophic things that happen to you like cancer. Not the little stuff like birth control OR Viagra for that matter. 1 out of every 5 women get diagnosed with breast cancer in her lifetime. Those are pretty high odds.
Always Amazed — speaking of cluelessness, that was a rhetorical question. I believe in a broad range of healthcare coverage because we do not know what is ahead of usl.
But if we are goign to pick and choose who pays for what, I really don’t want to pay for your breast cancer coverage if I am one of the 80% who doesn’t get it. If I do get it, I will opt in and pay coverage during the treatment period.
Isn’t that how y’all see pregnancy coverage? You don’t need it, so you don’t want to pay for it.
That would be why there is a different rate for male vs females. I have a minimal risk for breast cancer and you have a longer life expectancy which is why your life insurance is cheaper. We have a exhaust pipe and you have an intake manifold.
Not always. I had a guy who just cut my hair not so long ago and he told me that male breast cancer ran very high in his family and that the male memebers in his family had to have mammograms quite often. But the higer rate for females now applies to the males. What’s fair is fair.
November 27, 2013 at 4:43 pm
Celtica says:
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FFA – since you want a pick and choose world, why should i pay for that prostate cancer in your exhaust pipe?
November 27, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Always Amazed says:
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Well it might have been rhetorical but I had failed to see your dry sense of humor. That doesn’t mean I am clueless but Obama on the other had will always be clueless. He knew nothing about healthcare and this whole ACA mess proves it and so do his ratings. Why would a man who is supposed to so intelligent hire a foreign company, have all his Chicago thugs in is administration, and then roll out a health care plan that was less then have baked at best? Now, THAT really is clueless. So now let me ask: are YOU happy now?
If you are determined to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I will not stop you. However, the plan is working in those states that chose to embrace it. Those that didn’t are stomping their feet saying I told you so — to the detriment of their own residents.
Am I happy now? I am with ACA but not with the rollout in the states. It should have not have been as sloppy as it turned out to be. But that’s the rollout, not the plan itself.
It is working in the states that embraced it. How can that be when people who supposedly signed up for it haven’t even paid for it yet? Do the plans they applied for actually exist if no payment has been collected? I think not. And what about the millions – yes millions who have lost their coverage? Do you think those folks are embracing their letters of cancelation that they keep getting in the mail? I think not again. I’d be livid from hell right now had Humana had not extended my existing policy for another year. And you can bet that I’m not going to be happy next year this time when I have to choose a plan for the ACA that’s going to coat me more than what I my employer pays now for all the extra benefits that a woman my age does NOT need. Keep trying to spin this mess in a positive way if it makes you feel better. Obama ruined our health care for the 30 million who didn’t have it and some were by choice mind you not because they couldn’t get it – they simply chose not to and those are the 20 year old kids who like me when I was that old didn’t think that I needed it at that point in my life. Obama has angered more people in this country than he helped and his approval rate prove it. If he were running now he’d have lost the election.
December 2, 2013 at 4:21 pm
FFA says:
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No. It is not how I see pregnancy. I see getting pregnant is a choice. I don’t see getting cancer a choice. Heart disease runs in my blood line. I did not chose that.
when you buy maternity, you say when I get pregnant. When you buy health coverage, you say If I have a heat attach. I didn’t choose high cholesterol. when I was diagnosed, I adjusted my diet and don’t have a problem.
Are you saying having a baby is a choice so maternity costs should not be included in health insurance?
December 2, 2013 at 6:10 pm
FFA says:
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I am saying that it should be optional. If someone is active during the fertile years, they should have the choice of eating the bill or paying for an insurance carrier to eat it.
Yes, libby, in my book getting pregnant is a choice. Can choose to watch the calendar. Can choose to wrap it in plastic. Can choose to be on the pill. Many choices.
December 3, 2013 at 8:53 am
Libby says:
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That’s exactly what I said, FFA. It should be a choice to purchase or not purchase it.
December 3, 2013 at 10:31 am
FFA says:
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Libby, I agree with that 100%. That is the way it is now. That should not change.
December 3, 2013 at 5:34 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, There is always a cost associated with Healthcare coverage. When you have all these mandated coverages the libs think you must have, it runs the cost way up. You and I don’t need maternity, abortion, birth control, but we have to pay for others. That is what Socialism is all about. It is a giant wealth redistribution scheme and is so costly, it will bankrupt the country.
December 4, 2013 at 9:17 am
Libby says:
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Most healthy young people of child-bearing age have little need for alzheimers coverage, or treatment for blood pressure, incontinence, and other age-related problems. But they have it.
The fact that you have birth control and maternity coverage does not necessarily mean you are paying an additional premium for it. That’s what actuaries and rate-making departments are for…
December 2, 2013 at 1:19 pm
KY jw says:
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Why should health insurance be just for catastrophic things? HMOs are popular and a fabulous creation. They’ve been around for over 20 years (since I graduated from college at the very least).
But wouldn’t an HMO that covers cancer screenings detect the potentially catastrophic cancer before it becomes catastrophic?
December 3, 2013 at 12:47 pm
Libby says:
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Of course it would. I’m sure she wants THAT covered. She just doesn’t want anything covered that SHE doesn’t need. To hell with everyone else.
December 4, 2013 at 8:58 am
KY jw says:
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Aahh. You are probably correct, Libby.
November 27, 2013 at 3:00 pm
jw says:
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So if I go to work for a company owned by a Christian Scientist….my health care would consist of “readings” and no medical treatments???? For you insurance junkies I remember having a GL endorsement to the med pay coverage that provided “readings” in addition to medical payments. Try and get that through an underwriter today.
Hey FFA, do you think that website is fixed now like the Administration is claiming? I saw a report this morning that they are still scared to death that a large number of applicants will still crash the site. Also, a lot of people who thought they applied only to find the company has no record of them applying. Hmm! What a deal!
“jack says: Free Unicorns for everyone!” Yay, send mine now!
I have no clue what SCOTUS will rule, this could go either way. Too bad we won’t know anything until next summer (probably). I wonder how many articles will be on IJ in the mean time?
(I’ve changed my name since there is another jw posting on IJ. Wouldn’t want anyone confused.)
Why do all the Repubs on this site keep quoting Obama’s approval rating? What does that matter at this point in time? He’s not running for re-election.
Libby, the approval ratings are a reflection of his policies and decisions which are horrible to say the least. Don’t think his Democratic colleagues that voted for this mess haven’t taken note and are distancing themselves as much as they can. They are in full career saver mode now. I wonder how many will invite him to campaign for them for re-election. Didn’t work out so well with Charley Crist in Florida when he gave the President a big hug.
So Libby, how come the good citizens of Colorado continue to recall politicians who were trying to ban guns and approved of legalizing marijuana even for recreational use? The latest casualty is one Evie Hudak who resigned before she could be recalled. Coupled with the movement of secession from the state by a number of counties, I think they have serious problems up in that state and some wrongs will be righted in the near future. These liberal lawmakers up there will be shown the door.
Agent – the secession movement has fizzled out. It was spearheaded by a very small minority of rural residents in northern Colorado.
The majority of the state is liberal, but it being the west, they like their guns. As far as pot goes, who cares? I’ve never seen any mass murderers or violent criminals result from smoking weed. It’s time we stop wasting money and resources trying to criminalize it. There are alot of other drugs (many popping up every day) and crimes we should be worrying about.
December 3, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Agent says:
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So Libby, you don’t think pot leads to more serious drug use and more crime? I have seen studies that Marijuana use is insidious and does lead to harder drugs like Cocaine and it quickly gets out of hand. Are you enjoying your imported pot because your posts are cloudy with that smoke.
December 4, 2013 at 9:22 am
Libby says:
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Oh, Agent. Yea of many, many years. Have you never smoked pot before??? I don’t think anyone not already inclined to abuse drugs is going to go off the deep end and start shooting heroin because they smoked some pot. That’s like saying alcohol leads to alcoholism so we’d better outlaw it. Smoking weed, in and of itself, is no big deal. We need to stop wasting our time and money chasing after it, legalize it, and collect our tax money. Win-win.
December 2, 2013 at 2:07 pm
FFA says:
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Libby, it indicates confidence in our president. when it gets low, in my opinion only – any president should step down. I don’t know the magical number but say – 30% for 90 days???
It fluctuates for every president. Bush’s numbers were even lower at one point and he didn’t step down. In fact, I didn’t hear a big “impeach Bush” campaign coming from the right.
I think the Impeachment cries came from the left Libby. They were all over his case just like you have been. I don’t agree with all he did, but his biggest failing was being a RINO in the last two years and not cracking down on the liberals more. I wish he had come out with a speech to the American People about what was going on with Fanny & Freddie and warning about the impending housing meltdown, but he didn’t do it until far too late. Even with his flaws, he did keep the country safe from Terrorism his last 7 years.
That’s the best you can say about him? Even with his flaws, Obama has kept the country safe from terrorism for the last 5 years. I guess they’re even.
December 2, 2013 at 12:04 pm
Rusty says:
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This is what happens when a law is not properly vetted by the entire Congress before vote is held in each house. Here, the law was packed with all the favored items the bureaucratic drafters wanted, then passed in the middle of the night without a single vote of the opposing party or even any meaningful debate on the floor of each house. Worse yet, passage without even knowing what was in it was espoused by then House Speaker Pelosi. No one voting on it had read it or even fully understood what they were voting on. Shrouding a sweeping law like Obamacare in secrecy, coupled with bribes to favored parties or groups, is the way it got passed and the Democrats in congress (not a single Republican voted for it) should be ashamed of themselves for ramming this law through in such a fashion – worse yet, late at night and at the last minute. If laws are to be passed this way from now on, we can kiss our democratic country good bye and get prepared to live under a single party, tyrannical government. In fact, we’ve already seen one step in that direction with the abolishment of the 200+ year old Senate filibuster privilege during presidential appointment confirmations. It is especially telling that the very Democrats, (especially Senate Leader Harry Reid) are on record as opposing it only a few years ago when Republicans controlled the Senate, now heartily endorse and passed it while they are in control. With two-faced people like this leading our country, how can we believe anything they say any longer?
After all Rusty, They did give lawmakers 48 hours to read a 2,700 page bill before voting on it. What do you want, a week? I think a lot of Democrats wished they had read it now that the disaster has struck and their political careers are in jeopardy. They can run from it, but they can’t hide. The shellacking of 2010 will be minor compared to 2014.
Agent – the bill was posted on 11/18/09 and debate started on 11/20/13. The Senate voted to end the debate on 12/23/13. The law was voted in on 12/24/13. So Democrats, and Republicans alike, had 35 days to review the bill before voting on it.
In July or August, 2009 the Republicans had already decided to unanimously vote against it (BEFORE it had even been presented) with Mitch McConnell saying:
“It was absolutely critical that everybody be together because if the proponents of the bill were able to say it was bipartisan, it tended to convey to the public that this is O.K., they must have figured it out.”
Republican opposition was a done deal before it even began and it didn’t make a damn bit of difference to them what was in the bill.
Libby, find me one Congressman or one Senator in either party who read the bill before they voted on it. In fact, the President didn’t read it either as is more evident with each passing day. If you like your plan, you can keep it. If you like your doctor, you can keep him. 39 times. Period!
Which is it? He didn’t read it or he lied? Pick a story. Any story. Make up a new one if you want. You’re good at that.
December 2, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Libby says:
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It seems all republicans have a problem with reading comprehension. Here is EXACTLY what Pelosi said during a speech at the 2010 Legislative Conference for the National Association of Counties AFTER the bill had been passed by the Senate.
Pelosi: People won’t appreciate reform until it passes
Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Tuesday that people won’t appreciate how great the Democrat’s health plan is until after it passes.
“You’ve heard about the controversies, the process about the bill…but I don’t know if you’ve heard that it is legislation for the future – not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America,” she told the National Association of Counties annual legislative conference, which has drawn about 2,000 local officials to Washington. “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it – away from the fog of the controversy.”
The “pill” promotes promiscuity, poisons people (causes cancer) and pullutes the planet (residue, often flushed down toilets, has been found in wildlife on six continents).
By preventing attachment of fertilized eggs, it can also be said to cause abortion, i.e., to end the lives of the unique individuals that would otherwise have formed in their mothers’ wombs.
With all due respect, anyone who decides to use such a drug (a Faustian bargain if ever there was one) to make pleasure “worry free” (a false god, if ever there was one) ought to at least have the decency to pay for it herself.
1. What planet are you from?
2. In what century were you born?
3. What “residue” are you talking about?
4. “Cause” abortion? Do you even understand how the pill works?
5. Why should “pleasure” NOT be worry free?
6. Is the punishment for “pleasure” pregnancy in your book?
Please help me understand your archaic and sexist thinking.
When the reason is clouded by lust, evil may appear to be good. I fear that your questions and comments imply that you look to Oprah and Lady Gaga for your wisdom, rather than to reason and revealed truth. You may even believe we have no free will and that the universe created itself from nothing. Perhaps you should give these matters more thought. We need to consider the issues objectively, i.e., as if we had not aborted any babies or taken poisonous drugs for decades in order to fornicate without “punishment.” It is worth reading some philosophy.
You’re getting philosophy confused with fundamental Christianity. My God is not a punishing God like yours. He doesn’t punish me for enjoying what he put here on earth for me to enjoy. And my reason is not clouded by lust, nor do I look to Oprah &/or Lady Gaga for anything other than entertainment. You sound like a kook. Godspeed, Libby
You women want equal rights? Lose the shirts! Ok for me to go topless, its ok for you! Show off what we vow to save by walking endless miles!
Now, where did I leave my pink thong???
December 2, 2013 at 4:27 pm
Libby says:
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You walk countless miles for boobies, FFA?
December 2, 2013 at 4:56 pm
FFA says:
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No I don’t. But I do sponsor the walkers. I do go to fund raising “auctions” and my wife volunteers her time too. Breast Cancer Foundation gets at least $200.00 a year from me. I know its not much, but I have had people close to me deal with that to the point that the sib got elective removals (I cant spell the medical name). In the post op analysis, they did find cancer – a very small spec that would have killed her by now.
And no, I don’t have a pink thong either.
December 3, 2013 at 8:55 am
Libby says:
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Oh. I get it. I do that, too. I walk and sponsor my cousins when they do the 3 day/60 mile walk – $100 a piece.
December 3, 2013 at 10:34 am
FFA says:
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Yes Libby, very worth while cause. If they can find a cure for one cancer, a cure for the rest would likely be right around the corner.
December 2, 2013 at 3:02 pm
Robert Hill says:
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The “pill,” as it is used in the majority of circumstances, is nothing more than a recreational drug.
So, in your mind, married couples aren’t having sex? Just asking, because I know many couples who don’t want children at the moment and its either go without or rely on birth control. How does that make the pill a recreational drug?
jw, anything being done for fun is recreational. when we as a society have sex when the intended result is not children, we are doing it for fun ie recreation. No other reason but to achieve the big O. On my book anyways, that’s fun!
FFA, I can see the logic in calling it “recreational” since it isn’t “procreational”. ;)
Still, though, it isn’t a bad recreational drug since not everyone should be procreating. Seriously, this applies to married people too.
December 3, 2013 at 5:18 pm
Agent says:
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Hey KYjw, I don’t care if it is recreational or procreational. Employers shouldn’t be forced to pay for it on a health plan. It is all about personal responsibility anyway and it is cheap so the individual should pay for it out of pocket. It worked great for many years. Ever wonder why Catholics historically had large families? They depended on the natural cycles method and they had all kinds of accidents which produced children and they didn’t run to the abortion clinics either.
I was just responding to RH’s comment about the pill. He doesn’t want anyone to even TAKE it. I don’t really care who pays for it. My insurance would cover it if I needed it, but I have an HMO that pretty much covers everything. Well, as long as I go through my primary care physician.
December 4, 2013 at 9:29 am
Libby says:
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Agent – if it’s so cheap, how much could the employer be paying for the coverage? You people keep saying how cheap it is but then are against covering it. You do know that you have to go to the doctor for a prescription, right? Do you want to cover that or are women on their own for that, too?
December 2, 2013 at 3:39 pm
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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Robert, your religion is nothing more than a recreational drug, which has caused the slaughter of many, many innocent people throughout the centuries. So, you think it’s wrong to destroy a single cell, but murdering thousands is ok? Praise the lord!
I had a visit from one of the state senators today. He asked how Workers Comp reform is working out. You should have seen his jaw when I told him the cold hard facts of reality at the street level.
It did nothing but increase cost to the small business man.
He is a republican. I guess he wants the input of small business. There are troubles in my town. Business after business going down. It was unexpected and unannounced. Only the second time I actually – with my own two eyes – saw a politician out talking to joe average. Today, he should be in Springfield as the Pension Reform is up for vote today (Per WGN). Looking like the tax payer in Il is getting saddled with the bill… what a surprise!
I told him they need to shit can all the comp commissioners. Also told him I am on the vote them all out plan regardless of party. Got a troubled look on his face when I told him that.
Too bad it wasn’t the senator from DC. Durbin needs to go! Time to change the good ole boys network.
December 3, 2013 at 11:46 am
Libby says:
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Couldn’t agree more.
December 3, 2013 at 3:08 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, How many Democratic politicians have expressed interest in how you were doing as a business? Has Emanuel & Quinn been by to see you lately or do you just receive notices that your taxes are going up?
Agent, I am in the burbs, so I wont see Emanuel. Ditto on Quinn. He don’t give a damn about anything but Chicago. If not for Chicago, he would be collecting unemployment. If I remember correctly, he lost every county except three – one being Cook. In elections, cook is the only county that matters. Even had he won the other two, he still would have got in.
Hell, I don’t even get my local mayor in.
Once upon a time, my DC House rep approached me while I was walking down the side walk. That was on election day.
If State Farm is completely done in IL, all hell is going to break lose on election day. Many politicians will lose their jobs at all levels. How could they let a major employer walk out of state??? Right under their noses…
December 3, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Agent says:
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Well FFA, I guess that is the trouble with a state that is dominated by one county and one city. Thank goodness we are more spread out down here. Our politicians do stay in touch and I have shaken hands with everyone from Rick Perry down to my mayor. Liberals don’t like Perry because he is up north urging businesses to move to Texas for the tax advantages, the facilities, weather, work force and lower cost of living. Perry is all about business 24/7 and that is good enough for me. Let the sour puss Liberals scream about Social Justice if they like and business owners like it just fine down here.
December 4, 2013 at 9:30 am
Libby says:
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Trust me, Agent. That is NOT why we don’t like him.
December 4, 2013 at 9:53 am
Ron says:
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Agent,
Do not forget this part of Perry’s sales pitch:
If you happen to blow up a town, we will ask the Federal Government to save the day.
FFA, we fixed WC in Texas many years ago and now have a stable system and it does what it was intended to do. It was bad back in the day when lawyers sued for every cut finger and there was no voluntary market so we had to place everyone in the Pool at jacked up rates. Contractors had no choice because they couldn’t get jobs without it. Many other businesses fell out of the system and did Occupational Accident coverage, but we recouped most of them when WC recovered and rates came down.
Celtica says – “FFA – since you want a pick and choose world, why should i pay for that prostate cancer in your exhaust pipe”
I’m gonna die from a heart attack or a stroke – same as all my Grand Parents & Great Grand Parents did – quickly… Dads mom died of Breast Cancer. Not likely for me. I’m still an A cup. I don’t need a manzier. Working off the Florida Fat I came home with.
Good for them, standing up for what they believe in. Of course, eventually they will be made to comply.
Barb- no they wont. The employess get sent to Obamacareless. It’s the plan from the left the whole time. Single payer is the socialist agenda in the WH. The middle class is going to get screwed….lean forward.
Let’s see, I can hear it now. “They hate women” says Libby and every other liberal out there.
Not at all. But I think a religious exemption is not appropriate for a for-profit business. If so, it would open the floodgates for other ways to evade the law.
A religious institution has always meant a church or other non-profit entity based on religious affiliation. Not a for-profit business. If so, you could say “I’m a Christian and I shouldn’t have to pay income tax because my business is a religious institution.”
Yep, what Libby says. This question needs to be settled and I am glad that the Supreme Court is hearing it. Let the chips fall where they may on the various birth control and ACA issues.
So if I want to eat bacon on my salad while i work at the local muslim fast food joint I should get it and they should pay for it in my benefits?
You guys crack me up.
Since when does healthcare coverage include lunch at a fast food joint?
You crack me up.
OBama could wave his magic wand and make it so.
Shirley- sorry that one went over your head. I’ll explain if you need me to?
Not over our heads. Irrelevant and stupid.
Here you go Libby and Shirley-
You want abortion pills- pay for it
I want bacon on my salad- i’ll pay for it
Jack – you want boner pills? (And sooner or later you will.) Pay for it.
Yeah, Jack. What Libby says. And, besides, it’s not the Supreme Court that hates women, it’s those representing today’s Republican Party – hahaha.
Cap, maybe D Rose should go on Obama Care. Maybe it would speed up his rehab???? I am sure his current policy is substandard.
Too bad FFA on DRose. Now, he has screwed up both knees. His NBA career will never be the same and he very well could be out of the game in a few short years and end up washing cars like a lot of other former sports stars.
How dare you get off the subject topic and make this a sports issue!! Shame on you!! Libby will have her undies in a bunch!!
Hey Always, do you think I care what Libby would say to this? I was responding to my buddy FFA who is from Chicago and who has commented on DRose many times over the past few years.
To the both dumb A’s (Agent & Always) – I happened to have thumbed up those posts. Those guys always get off task with sports. I don’t mind that. It’s the mad ranting about abortion that get my panties all in a twist. Oh, that’s right. I’m not wearing any! LOL!!!
Hi Agent,
You probably care just as much about Libby’s posts as I do. I was just throwing a little sarcasm into the mix.
Hey you two! You’re getting off the subject topic here! Libby is going her undies all in a bunch! I have been reprimanded for this same behavior before
Hey you two! You’re getting off the subject topic here! Libby is going her undies all in a bunch! I have been reprimanded for this same behavior before!!
Well gals, I guess I need a spanking for getting off task.
Good Lord, Always. Give it a rest with my panties, would you? I’m not wearing any.
That explains a lot. Sorry for being more than one post I know how you love repetition.
Yeah, I get enough of it from you and Agent. Abortion, Friedman, Keynes, abortion, Friedman, Keynes bwayk!
FFA –
I think D Rose’s delays are mental. The PPACA does cover mental health issues. He should be good to go.
In all seriousness, I can’t believe this injury is going to keep him out all year again. This isn’t close to the ACL injury, from what I’m reading. Maybe they are trying to get ahead of the story this time, so in the event he does come back later this season, it will make their marquis player look better than he did last year. Hate to say it, but it seems my beloved Bulls are cursed in the point guard position. Remember what happened to Jayson Williams. Perhaps Krause sold the team’s soul for all those championships in the 90’s. Or, maybe D Rose is just a wuss and Williams shouldn’t have been driving a motorcycle like his contract read.
Meanwhile Planet, I bet DRose does not miss a check for non-performance and being out almost all of last year and it looks like most of this year. Knees to a basketball player are critical since they make so many quick moves and cuts. My guess from seeing similar injuries in basketball and football is that he may come back, but be average at best. Is he worth the millions he makes at this point? I think the Bulls are stuck with him and he can’t even be traded at this point since he is damaged goods.
Seems like a long time for the Meniscus. I was back on the sball field in 6 weeks. Little bit slower but I could still hit the ball. I thin they are just saying all year but be back in in 6 – 8 weeks depending on how bad the tear is.
If the Green family will give up the hundreds-of-millions of profits they have made and re-incorporate as a church, they should be able to withold contraceptives from their healthcare plan.
Think they’ll do it?
Uh…. No.
They would just close and kick the workers to the curb.. Maybe they would Franchise off and then break the company down to under 50 employees by specific entity.
FFA, A $475 million fine/tax each year may just finish them off. I know people who work at Hobby Lobby/Mardel’s in my town and they are very fine people. I am sure Obama will have no problem seeing the Group policy go away next year like they are in thousands of other companies across the country. This is Cloward & Pivin at its finest and we no longer have a free country to conduct business in. Another 13,000 employees down the tube who liked the plan they had and cannot keep it because the libs just have to have that mandate.
FFA, How about a little humor prior to taking off for Thanksgiving?
A guy walks into a crowded public library and asks a cute young thing if she minded if he sat next to her. She said in a very loud voice. NO, I DON’T WANT TO SLEEP WITH YOU! Everyone was staring and he was embarassed and moved to a different table. After a few minutes, she came over to him and said, I am studying Psychology and I know what a man wants. He then replies in a loud voice. $500 FOR ONE NIGHT! That’s absurd. He then whispers in her ear, I am studying law and I know how to screw people.
Good one….
The real issue is whether or not Government should be mandating ANY sort of healthcare coverage. I argue that freedom is better.
Freedom Scott? Only if you agree with the left’s definition of freedom. Choosing whether or not to buy health insurance is a freedom the left wants to deny you. Freedom to keep most of your hard earned cash is yet another. If you live in California top federal rate = 39.5% and in California the state income tax is 13%. 39.5% + 13% = 52.5% or more than half your money. And this doesn’t even include Social Security tax, Medicare Tax, Sales tax, Property tax, Gas taxes, vehicle taxes, etc. Freedom Scott? Are you serious?
Which is why I will continue fighting the Left with everything that I have.
The top rate of 39.5% doesn’t apply to anyone’s total income. It only applies to the top portion of the income. Nice try.
You obviously don’t get it like everybody else on the left. The point is which doesn’t get through the skulls of those on the left is once you reach a certain income, more than half of every additional $1.00 you make goes into the hands of the government. The fact that this doesn’t disturb you says a lot about you. Also, if you knew anything about basic economics (you obviously do not like most on the left) you would understand this provides a great disincentive to earn more more money which has a huge negative effect on the economy. Combine that with welfare, food stamps and other government programs and you have tons of other incentives not to work. Where do you figure that leads us? Yep, the 1-2% growth the Obama economy is giving us when most recoveries are 5-7% growth.
Dave, the pro golfer Phil Mickelson who lives outside of San Diego figures his earnings are taxed right at 63% when federal, state, county, city, property, sales are figured in. That is why he is strongly considering moving to Arizona, Texas or Florida in the near future. Tiger Woods did it several years ago and saved millions in taxes. We have seen the high tax countries like Greece, France, Britain and others economies go into the tank because they are taking entreprenurial money so there is little or no growth.
Agent, Illinois is considering a graduated income tax to help fund their $50 billion pension deficit, rather than fixing the pensions. I was figuring on moving out of this God-forsaken state AFTER retirement, but I may have to push that up. One of my good friends just moved out of Illinois to Florida and is so happy.
Dave, ou obviously don’t get it, like most on the right. The point that doesn’t seem to get through the skulls of those on the right is that tax rates on the top bracket of income are at historic lows. Although many of the tightie-righties love to talk about “the good old days” such as the 1950’s (“people had good values back then”), tax rates on the top levels of income were once above 90%. These days the rich are given more for doing less, which is why the income gap between the most wealthy and those who actually earn a living is historically high. They take more, and we who do the actual work get less for working hard and following the rules. The fact that this doesn’t disturb you says a lot about you. Also, if you knew anything about basic economics (you obviously do not, like most on the right) you would understand that people will grab up every dollar they can get, regardless of the tax rate. The widening income gap provides a great disincentive for people to work hard, since, no matter what they do, they won’t get anywhere. Lack of productivity has a much greater negative effect on the economy than people buying fewer yachts. Where is your “trickle down”? We’ve been waiting to see that for 30 years, but it was just another scam to help the rich hijack more of our nation’s prosperity. Where do you figure that leads us? We’re becoming a third-world country, where a handful of individuals control most of the country’s wealth, while creating disincentives for those in the middle (or lower) to produce at maximum efficiency. That’s why we don’t have more growth.
If the top tax rate is such of a burden on the poor little rich boys, I have a solution: They can trade incomes with me, and I will happily pay the higher tax rate, and they can pay my lower tax rate. Problem solved. Any takers?
I have never once complained about being in a higher tax bracket than where I used to be (and many still are). Anyone who does, is a spoiled ingrate. There are a lot of people who have worked harder than you. If it weren’t for this great nation and those who have sacrificed, you wouldn’t have had the opportunity to be in a higher tax bracket. How much do you think our nation’s soldiers get paid, protecting all you spoiled little rich boys? The least you can do is appreciate all that’s been done for you.
I can’t thumb you up enough, Shirley. Wish I knew Sarge’s trick.
dave , could be cause its cold out there right now…
yes, our state sucks!!!! It will get better when the Cubs win the series…
Dave, the City of Detroit is in bankruptcy and the pensioners are raising cain about losing their “benefits”. Their benefits are largely responsible for the bankruptcy and there is no money in the till.
So, it’s OK with you if health insurers sell crappy policies that provide little coverage? Buyer beware is not appropriate for health insurance. The minimum essential coverage requirements in the ACA were/are absolutely the right thing to do.
New Yorker, I for one am very happy to go with out Maternity, Birth Control and Abortion coverage.
If premiums were actually Affordable, I am sure most everyone would not care about picking up that coverage. Only Demographic I have found so far were people on I CHIP (Il Version of Pool Coverage) and Max rated Groups. I am finding most people are very upset about OBamas definition of Affordable when the premiums are 2X.
FFA – do you not think insurance companies are smart enough when setting rates to factor that in for someone over 50? You may not need maternity or birth control, but let’s face it you are subject to more sickness and disease than a 20 year old. So just because you get the coverage does not mean you are paying any more for it.
Libby, I don’t know!!!
So it’s OK for the government to decide what kind of insurance you have to buy? How would you like it if they told you what kind of car or home or toaster you had to buy? This is how Communism works. Some bureaucrat decides what people want and how much of it. How many times does Communism have to fail before you guys on the left understand it is a bad economic system?
Dave, Communism’s central theme is the ownership, control of the means of production. The Central Committee decides how many cars they will make, toasters or any other product. Back in the old USSR, they would announce their goals on a 5 year plan for agricultural production. They never made their goals because farmers had no incentive to grow more since they could keep only a small portion to live on. Communism is perfectly happy having their citizens living on a subsistence income and the elite live in luxury. It has failed every time it has been tried in the history of the world, but some still see it as the way to go.
Likewise, republicans are perfectly happy having their citizens living on a subsistence income and the wealthy elite living in luxury. This has already been tried and failed in the history of the world. Why do you think revolutions happen? Extreme disparity is what led to the communist revolution in Russia. Is that what you want? Apparently you do.
Shirl,
There are a lot of very wealthy democrats out there too. What is Pelosi’s worth these days? We know Obama has made millions in the past 5 years and he even gave himself a 50K raise because the 400K just wasn’t enough money for him to live on. So, please stop it with your banter that the conservatives want all poor people to die off. Conservatives donate more to charity then democrats to and you’d think that would be the other way around because you libs are just bleeding hearts and just can’t to see anyone suffer. Pffffffft.
Your right Shirley. I am sure Orah is in the poverty range.
I agree with Always Amazed. Stop ranting about the wealthy Republicans. How much money are the Kennedys worth? Why did (current Secretary of State) John Kerry keep his YACHT in Rhode Island so as to avoid Massachusetts taxes? Other examples could be given. It isn’t just the Repubs who are wealthy.
Dave – I agree the government should not mandate what people should buy, but they should mandate that all these options are offered at an affordable price. It should be the individual’s choice what they buy.
Good point Dave. We need to get rid of those mandatory auto insurance laws, right? Do you have a responding fire department or a police department? Communism! Do you drive on roads funded by the government? Communism!
Yes, and do you use the public library? Communism! How about the postal service? Communism! Dave, I think you need to define for the classroom what Communism is and then use it in a sentence with the PPACA. I’m curious to see how you address the private carriers providing the care in THE definition (not YOUR definition) of “Communism”.
Oh! Oh! Teacher! Pick me!
I can use it in a sentence. “Anything that doesn’t benefit the rich is communism.”
Shirley, I was around when Mandatory Ins became law in IL. First year – premiums jumped at least 10%.
So yeas, scrap mandatory insurance. People that would not buy insurance buy from crappy fly by night carriers that don’t pay anyways. Let the state pull their licenses. Next time they get pulled over for speeding, they get cuffed and carted away…
Not everyone here in the USA owns a car, Shirl girl.
“crappy policies”? New Yorker, I have a great policy through Humana. It’s an 80/20 plan. I’m 56 years of age, single, with no children. I do not need maternity, abortion, in vetro fertilization, the morning after pill, or prenatal coverage. What I need is a healthcare policy that is going to cover the catastrophic things that can happen to me like getting breast cancer. Which happened just last year around this very time. And, that is the type of coverage people in there 50s should have. I don’t need to be paying in premium for “services” that I am never going to use. I do not have a substandard plan and I’m tired of Obama and his minions calling it that because it’s not. What is this is a total distribution of wealth making us older people pay for something that we’re never going to use so we can pay for someone who is on a subsidy to have. This should be illegal! We have become a totally nanny state and Obamacarless is exactly what we should be calling the ACA. He doesn’t give a rats ass because he isn’t forced to be on it. Nor does any of the members of congress or his cronies – lobbyists – that pay him millions in contributions to keep it that way. Obama wrecked our healthcare as we know it for 30K people. Millions have lost their coverage because of 30 million. And now the employee “grandfathered” plans are going to be getting canceled as well. Geezelouise. Get a clue people. We have all been duped. I’m proud I didn’t vote for him – I caught on to his lying when he denied that he didn’t have a clue about Rev. White’s anti American and racist speeches when he was a member of that radical “church” for 20 years. He lied back then just as he’s doing to us now. Makes my blood boil.
Always – don’t you think rates for people over the age of 50 reflect the fact that they will not use those coverages you mentioned but that you have a higher probability of using if for cancer, diabetes, and other disease? What makes you think you are paying more for it just because it’s thrown in?
It’s like a GL policy with $15k med pay limit. If I want to lower it to $5k, I get no return premium. Or adding an enhancement endorsement because it has 1 thing I need and 10 other things I don’t. If I delete the other 10 things, I still pay the same premium.
Nice try, Libby, but no. I have received my renewal letter from Humana and my premium this year is just slightly higher at $395.39/month from the previous year. Humama did advise that the same plan with the ACA would be a lot higher because of all the new benefits that were added. Need I go any further? They did also advised that the Illinois Department of Insurance has not yet sent them a letter of explanation on what the ACA options for the same coverage would be. Gee, I wonder why the delay? Nice going Illinois.
Jeez. And you believed what Humana told you? You’re dumber than I thought.
Libby,
I’m not going to stoop down to your level of ignorance and you take that level to an all time new low. Yes, I believe what Human has told me because unlike our Liar In Chief, they know what they are talking about. Obama has proved his incompetence over and over again and people are finally starting to wake the blazes up and they are no longer as trusting as they once were of the community part organizer that rose up out of the ashes to become king. And, deary, once that trust is lost, it’s very hard to get it back. And all we can say with a smug look on our faces is WE TOLD YOU SO! What is his popularity rating these days? Some place in the 30s? BWAAHAHAHA!
Always, I don’t think the hold up is IL – for a change.
I believe the carriers are sitting there scratching their heads trying to game plan this curve ball.
Hi FAA,
A lot of our BC/BS clients are screaming loud and clear on how their rates have good through the roof. I’m not sure if it’s because Humana’s plans are being extended for a year and the ACA doesn’t have to do anything for a while or what. BC/BS has been tied to the government for ages. We had ICHIP (Illinois Catastrophic Health Insurance Plan) for the people who had preexisting conditions for those had lost their plans run by BC/BS. It was expensive but very much like the same plans the ACA had since it covered everything including maternity and the kitchen sink. This is pretty much the plan that BC/BS is rolling out w/the ACA with huge premiums for those who aren’t eligible for a subsidy.
Always, The ICHIP people are one of the demographics that are getting a cheaper rate. Also, Max Rated Groups will be better off getting individual polices off exchange.
Dave, I couldn’t be paid enough to live and try to work in the cesspool of Illinois considering how corrupt they are and how they are taxing people into oblivion. Florida does have the climate except for the occasional hurricane that comes in and blows everything away. It is the retirement state and there is no state income tax. Texas, where I am from also has many advantages, but we are a weather state and get everything from hurricanes to tornados. All in all, it is a great state, conservative and also no state income tax.
Yeah, there’s a reason there is no state income tax. You’d have to live in Texas or Florida. LOL!!! I’ll pay income tax!
Yes Libby, there is a reason why Texas has created more jobs in the past 5 years than all the rest of the country combined. The blue states who tax their citizens the heaviest are losing population. Why is that?
Wrong again, Agent. California has created the most new jobs. Texas is #4. You are so easy to de-bunk. See where I get the “9 out 10 times you’re wrong?” Do some research for crying out loud.
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=recipientTopJobs&ViewAll=100
So Libby, I see where another one of your favored politicians in Colorado who was trying to ban guns was facing recall and she decided to resign rather than face the music. Evie Hudak is the name should you care to check it. What is this now, three? Two already gone and now three. Coupled with the movement to secede from the state, I think the Marijuana smokers may be in big trouble up there in the mile high state.
Uh, Agent, I think marijuana smokers are in great shape in Colorado. What are you talking about?
And I’ve said before, if elected officials are not serving the interests of their constituents, then they should be recalled. That is democracy (and I know the U.S. is a Republic) at work. I don’t live in northern Colorado, so the fact they are recalled doesn’t bother me.
The secession is over and is old news.
Leave it to you Libby to quote a government website to try to prove your employment numbers. These are the same people who have been fudging employment figures since 09 and conveniently leave out the citizens who have dropped out of the system after collecting their 99 weeks and have made it down to the Social Security office to collect disability. What about all the thousands of employers who have closed down in California and moved out to friendlier states like Texas & Arizona? It is pretty hard to hire workers if the business is gone. Try again and don’t quote a government website like Ron likes to do. Government credibility is non-existent.
Where else would you recommend I look for those kind of statistics, Agent? Just because it’s a government site doesn’t mean the data is incorrect.
That’s a excuse. Try again with data of your own.
Agent,
Until you ptovide your own data and/or statistics with a cited source, do not judge me or anyone else for actually doing SOME research. I would be very interested to see the wages and benefits of these new jobs. Not your opinion, facts. I have seen Governor Perry travelling across the country telling employers to relocate to Texas where taxes are low, little regulation, and if you happen to blow up a town, we will ask the Federal Government to save the day.
http://www.texastribune.org/2013/08/02/feds-approve-texas-request-west-recovery/
Was that a government site too?
I have been asking for some other source of employment numbers, but you have provided NONE.
I honestly believe you need to trade in you Economics degree for a Philosophy degree.
Agent,
In addition, you never responded to a couple of my posts from a separate article.
President Reagan incorporated some Keynesian economics too. Are you prepared to call him a pea brain?
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2012/06/paul-krugman-reagan-was-a-keynesian.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-21/ronald-reagan-s-accidental-keynesian-stimulus-echoes.html
You did not debunk my premise that Conservative Republican President Reagan DID NOT LOWER SPENDING AND DEBT. I do not care why. If President Obama is responsible for spending, debt and deficit, so is President Reagan, period.
Here are some more eye opening numbers about our debt by party. Since President Carter, Democratic Presidents have added a toal of $6.776 trillion and Republican Presidents have added $9.263 trillion. By average per year, Democratic Presidents have added $423.5 billion per year and Republican Presidents have added $463.15 per year.
http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebtanddeficit/p/US-Debt-by-President.htm
Please tell me again why we should elect a Republican President if we are trying to lower our debt.
Good one, Ron. But he won’t respond. He never does when he’s backed into a corner.
The Bible says we ought to pay our taxes, not try to avoid them, which is beside thepoint here. A biblical basis can be made for not engaging in birth control, in which case biblically based businesses should not be required to fund any birth control pills or other procedures that prevent or terminate conception.
Sebelious is the named defendant on both these cases. Out of pure business smarts, this chick needs to go based on the fact that she is drawing heavy legal bills.
Wonder if her boss would kick the prune to the curb???? To appease the other side – Sara needs a job…. I don’t think she would go along to get along.
None the less, gives the s Ct a chance to sit back and say, lets get ride of this thing all together. Maybe someone in Govt is listening to the masses…
FFA – it is not the job of the Supreme Court to listen to the masses. It’s to hear the case and judge fairly and impartially.
Rules are changing all the time Libby. Truth is now partial truth. Affordable is more expensive. Substandard is what we want but cant have. Lines are blurred. Definitions are changing. Govt functions.
“Substandard is what we want but can’t have”? Um…not when you find out you need an expensive prescription or that you have an unexpected pregnancy. Nobody wants substandard then.
FFA, to borrow a favorite term from Clinton, it depends on what the definition of is is. Liberals are famous for parsing words to fit their agenda. Right is wrong, wrong is right, 2+2=3 in the new Core Curriculum being forced into the public schools so we can dumb down the society even more than it is currently. By the way Progressivism is an insidious disease. I wonder if it is covered under mental conditions under Obamacare. Most of these jokers on IJ spouting off their liberal ideas could use some serious couch time with a Psychiatrist.
And one more point New Yorker, If I get my wife pregnant, I wont need any health insurance because it would just plain and simple be a Miracle. I’ll make a fortune selling the story to everyone but OPrah. She want to send the money out of the US. So, no. Only American Companies with American Employees.
Agent – we don’t parse words. You just have a problem with your reading comprehension and your understanding of the spoken word.
FFA, I saw a good email on Famous Presidential Lies. See the following:
LBJ – We were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin.
Nixon – I am not a crook.
Clinton – I did not have sex with that woman… Ms Lewinski.
Bush 41 – Read my lips – No new taxes.
Obama – I will have the most transparent administration in history.
TARP is to fund shovel ready jobs.
I am focused like a laser on creating jobs.
The IRS is not targeting anyone.
It was a spontaneous riot about a movie.
I will put an end to the type of politics that breeds division, conflict and cynicism.
You didn’t build that!
I will restore trust in Government.
The Cambridge Cops acted stupidly.
The public will have 5 days to look at every bill that lands on my desk.
It’s not my red line – it is the world’s red line.
Whistle Blowers will be protected in my administration.
I am not spying on American Citizens.
Obamacare will be good for America.
You can keep your insurance coverage if you like it.
You can keep your family doctor.
Premiums will be lowered $2,500 for families.
It’s just like shopping at Amazon.com
I knew nothing about “Fast & Furious” gun running to Mexican Cartels.
I knew nothing about IRS targeting Conservative Groups.
I knew nothing about what happened in Benghazi.
And the biggest of all: I, Barack Hussein Obama, pledge to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
You forgot Dubya:
“We have discovered weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.”
FFA, calling Sebelius a prune is a kind term. She is an inept leftist minion who is about as lost as Incompetano was as Homeland Security head. By, the way, when she was Governor of Kansas, she took campaign donations from Tiller, the baby killer abortionist who should have been shut down years ago for doing very late term abortions. We know about liberals records on killing babies, don’t we?
Thank you for that well-reasoned, thoughtful counter-argument. It explains a lot.
When has Obama been with in reason with this law?
That is not the point. The point is whether a Corporation has the same rights as an individual when it comes to religious freedoms. The Corporation has no more right to force their beliefs on their employees anymore than their individual owners.
You are the same person that will bitch about them not providing coverage after it’s cancelled. You don’t want the companys provided healthcare don’t buy it. It’s your choice…you do like choice…right.
You guys really don’t get it do you. It’s so sad.
Jack – it’s you that doesn’t get it.
I am not debating the merits of the law here. I am debating whether a for-profit company has the right to hide behind religious immunity from the law.
Truth be told, I think the law should state there should be a birth control option available at an affordable price. Same with maternity. If you don’t need/want them, don’t buy them. But they should be offered. Is that choice enough for you?
Very reasonable Libby. That’s what we have now.
Lib- Walmarts running a special on the pill for $10 a month. That affordable birth control?
For me, yes. Can’t speak for the single mother with 3 kids that really needs it, though. That $10 might be what she needs to feed her family. Oh, and don’t forget the doctor visit to get the prescription to take to Walmart. How much is that?
Libby- that’s really funny…$10 a month to feed 3 kids. How about she just cut out the trip to McD’s once a month?
What about the doctor visit? That could be another $50 to $100. Do you think a resourceful single mother of 3 can’t feed her kids on $110 a month? You’d be wrong.
Besides, it might be a matter of “I have $10 right now. I need my BC pills, but my kids are hungry. Which do I choose?”
You obviously have never had to make those kind of choices. There goes your arrogance showing again.
Libby- actually i was in that position in 2006 buy my how times have changed. BECAUSE I GOT OFF MY ASS AND DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
You showed your ignorance and judgemental nature in your last post their Libby.
Jack,
Libby isn’t judgmental. Nor is she racist. Don’t you read her posts?
Libby, Government should not be in the position to dictate to a business what they can buy, sell or provide benefits to employees or anything else. If the employee doesn’t like the choices offered on the benefits, they are free to go somewhere else to work. I have not seen any articles that Hobby Lobby or Mardel employees are unhappy with the company they work for. In fact, they do like having Sunday off so they can worship in the church of their choice.
Agent, if the employer doesn’t want to pay for birth control or maternity then they shouldn’t. The employee usually has to pay their portion. Make those coverages optional and the employee pick up the extra cost. But there should be an option provided because Hobby Lobby has no right to force their beliefs on their employees just as you say the government has no right to force theirs on the employer. I know you won’t agree, but I’ll ask anyway. Would that be fair?
“make those coverages optional and the employee pick up the extra cost” really Libby…serious? Thats what we call go buy it your freaking self! Nobody told you you couldn’t go buy it yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jack, OBama told us we couldn’t but it for ourselves.
Jack: If my employer offers a comprehensive plan without maternity coverage, do you think I can go buy maternity coverage by itself at a reasonable cost?
Hey Libby,
“The Corporation has no more right to force their beliefs on their employees anymore than their individual owners.” So why then should the government have the right to force Obama’s beliefs on a business and on a business owner? And I still don’t understand the logic of having insurance pay for birth control. Birth control pills are not a healing medicine. Us taxpayers shouldn’t be paying for them under obamacare!!!
Cheetoh – the inclusion of birth control coverage by the government is not a religious belief. As I’ve stated before, I think there should be an option mandated, but the choice to buy it or not. Then the choice is the employee’s and not the corporation’s.
Libby,
Why should birth control be a covered item on medical insurance at all? It is not medically necessary in almost all cases, albeit several exceptions. Birth control is a choice: pills, condoms, … The government should not be mandating it be covered, especially under obamacare, where the taxpayers are subsidizing the premiums.
Cheetoh – I think any insurance carrier providing maternity coverage pre and post natal care would want to provide birth control coverage. It’s a helluva lot cheaper than a pregnancy. It’s call risk control. Not to mention most birth control is obtained by prescription, which makes a doctor visit necessary. That’s why it should be covered.
Libby, those comprehensive plans were one could choose to have maternity were the first plans to go when the ACA got put into place back in 2010. Maternity is no longer an option – it’s a mandate just like all the other useless “benefits” we now have on our “superior” plans we are being forced on.
I understand it is a mandate now. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about making it a mandate that it’s offered, but it’s the individual’s choice to purchase it or not. It’s called a compromise. Maybe that’s why you didn’t recognize it. Republicans aren’t big on compromise.
Libby, It would be a lot cheaper on the American People if Obamacare was dismantled and discarded and start off by doing common sense solutions, not mandating or making people buy what the government tells them to buy.
As usual Agent, you did not comprehend my suggestion. You are dumber than a box of rocks.
I said an option from the carrier should be mandated at an affordable price and choice to buy left up to the individual.
Didn’t we agree on that approach on another website?
It would be nice if maternity and all the other “benefits” that we now have mandated were an option. But, you’re missing Obama’s point. Who then would be paying for these benefits so those who are eligible for the subsidies could have them. The money has to come from someplace and it’s the rest of us folks that are funding those wonderful benefits for subsidy crowd. This is the distribution of wealth we keep trying to tell you about. This is exactly what it is and how it’s starting. I’m scared to imagine what else we’re going to have to fit the bill for. You do remember the Liar In Chief’s wife saying something to the effect of “somebody is going to have to give up a bigger piece of their pie” don’t you? In my opinion I think it should Moochelle.
Website Ron is at it again. It is interesting that you quote Paul Krugman, a noted leftist former Princeton professor who is a columnist for the NY Times. He has about the same credibility of Obama which is sinking to new lows. I don’t need websites to see clearly what is going on. Your President has run up $6 Trillion in debt in less than 5 years. GW had the attack of 9/11 and the War on Terror to deal with and his spending was still less than yours. Don’t get me started on Ronnie. He had to pick up the mess Carter made in 4 years and try to recover the economy which he did a good job on. Only his Speaker Tip O’Neil welched on the big spending agenda or the deficits would have been much lower. I lived that era sonny boy and I know what happened. You resort to phony websites to tell you Ronny was a Keynsian spender. You couldn’t be more wrong.
You know, Agent? All you do when backed into a corner is try to discredit the source. Considering you have NEVER cited a source, your disdain for other people’s sources is laughable. Come back when you want to have a big boy conversation.
Zero facts Agent is at it again. Just keep spinning away into denial. I thought Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, yet all you can do is blame others. HYPOCRITE!! Try holding your elected representatives accountable for once.
When President Obama’s defenders use the fact the he inheritied the worse economic collapse since the Great Depression, which also started during a Republican Presidency, they get criticized for blaming Bush, but somehow it is OK to defend President Reagan by blaming Carter. He did not just increase spending the first few years to save the economy, he continued throghout his term and it actually escalated after 3 years in office.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-spending
I wonder what Friedman would have said about President Reagan’s “spend to save the economy” approach.
Stop blaming Congress for spending during President Reagan’s term and President Obama during his. Either the buck stops with the President or it does not. Pick a side.
Just because a website does not support your narrative, it does not mean it is phony. Provide your own sources to debunk mine.
If your Economics professors were to read your comments without any sources, they would be embarassed.
Keep on spinning and keep on defending Obama Ron. You are a liberal Democrat in Independent clothing. You should join the legion of Independents who have a brain and are rejecting all the lies told by this President.
Agent,
If your definition of spinning is providing facts that support my piosition and cite my sources, then I will keep spinning.
Thank you for not answering my questions, again. There is no proof that President Reagan was a true fiscal Conservative. A true fiscal Conservative does not increase government spending, the deficit, and sign 11 tax increases.
You can criticize me for utilizing websites to gather information, but at least I give you an opportunity to research what I use. You provide nothing because you have nothing.
Agent,
Here is some more good reading about Conservative President Reagan.
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488
Hey Ron, since you like everyone to provide proof of opinions, I encourage you to “google” F A Hayek, the Noble winning economist who wrote a book called The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism. You may actually learn something. He goes into some detail about how Capitalism is far superior to Socialism in every way. I know this will go against your belief system since you are a huge defender of Obama and his thug belief that he can control every aspect of our society, but it is a big lie and it is being shown every day in this country.
Hey, Agent – no-one provides proof of opinions. We provide proof of facts. Those pesky little things you are in short supply of.
You will not get an argument from me that Socialism is superior to Capitalism. I’m not a Socialist. You saying I am over and over ad nauseum does not make it so.
Hayek does give the facts only you and Ron ignore them. You and Ron both cite liberal talking points which you call facts and then say you prefer Capitalism over Socialism. I really had a laugh over the Paul Krugman referenced article. Guess what Libby & Ron, your President is the biggest Socialist ever to grace the White House and his aim is to ultimately dismantle all we stand for. Capitalism is the greatest economic engine ever created in the world and you are perfectly happy seeing this guy tear it down. You have been smoking too much of that legal Colorado weed.
Agent,
Please list ALL of the liberal talking points I have cited. Showing PROOF that President Reagan was not the glorious fiscal Conservative you make him out to be is not a liberal talking point. It is evidence.
I have read Hayek and agree with a lot of his philosophy especially his Business-cycle Theory. Did you not notice that I cited an article from the Austrian Economics website of the Ludwig von Mises Institute? Unlike you, I am open to learning many different economic philosophies and respect what they write even when I do not agree.
If you want to go against someone on economics, stick with Libby. (no offense Libby. I know economics is not your strong suit) I will crush you!!
Please list everything President Obama has implemented that meets the definition of Socialism.
Why do you refer to Hayek as a Nobel Prize winning economist, but not Krugman? You need to learn to respect those who have achieved the highest honor in their field.
Agent,
One last thing, wasn’t I the one who called for an end to Progressive Socialism when you were content to a 100 year break because we would be long gone?
Agent – calling someone a Socialist does not make them one. Rant on, good buddy.
Ron – no offense taken, although I am learning. Quickly.
So, who wants to venture a guess on the SCOTUS ruling?
Does an employer have a right to impose their religious beliefs on individuals?
I say no.
What does the SCOTUS give a damn about what you or I think?
Since when does any level of Govt give a crap about the average Joes?
They don’t FFA and that is the reason we have a screwed up society on the verge of ruin. Government stopped listening to their constituents many years ago. Elections are getting rigged and the same elitists are still in office doing their edicts and regulations we have to live with. I saw an interesting town hall back before Obamacare was passed. It was the now infamous Mary Landrieu of Louisiana. The folks were giving her a lot of trouble on why they didn’t want it passed and she had a distressed look on her face. Guess what, she voted for it anyway after receiving a huge bribe from Reid. Now, she is running for re-election and the folks haven’t forgot. I look for her to be packing her bag next year.
C- so me not paying for something my employee wants is “imposing my religious beliefs” ??? What’s next, I have to provide muslim prayer rugs ?
Your employer is not preventing you from buying something on your own or finding another job.
After you liberals finish off killing American jobs, I hope you enjoy the use of your EBT cards.
So, Jack. Answer my question. If my employer offers a comprehensive plan without maternity coverage, do you think I can go buy maternity coverage by itself at a reasonable cost?
And don’t deviate from this particular question, because it’s a 2-parter.
Libby- no you can’t. But you can go buy an indiv policy with it included,pay for the pregnancy yourself, or find another job. IT’S NOT YOUR EMPLOYERS JOB TO PROVIDE IT AND/OR PAY FOR IT.
Part 2 ?
NO YOU CAN’T. Bingo!
So if my employer offers a plan that has everything I need but maternity, why should I have to forgoe that plan and pay MORE for insurance?
Why shouldn’t my employer provide a plan without maternity but offer maternity coverage as a separate option? Then I’m the one paying for the maternity, but can also take advantage of the basic plan my employer is offering to his employees?
Why is that not a win-win?
So if an employer doesn’t offer maternity coverage that means none of their employees (and this includes prospective fathers) can grow families — which is Pro Life.
You guys need to get a better argument. Oh, and better candidates.
Libby- how is it a win-win when the gov forces an employer to offer something that drives the cost up so much the employer decides to stop offering the coverage to the employee or the spouse?
You had a part 2?
That was part 2. How does it drive up the cost if the employer isn’t paying for it? If the employer pays for the plan he wants to (or a portion for that matter) and the employee pays for the things that aren’t included in the plan himself, how is that driving the cost up to the employer?
Again, it’s a compromise. Something you Republicans aren’t used to. Mandate that coverage has to be offered, but not paid for by the employer. Why is that so hard to understand?
Libby- Do you write group health insurance?
Libby- Do you write group health and are you familiar with the laws and how they apply to employer contribution requirements?
Jack, libby is brick & mortar – no health.
No, I don’t write benefits. P&C only. But if you’re going to tell me it doesn’t work that way now, all I can say is “change it.”
If you can’t afford kids don’t have them. I paid for our hospital bills when mine were born as I had no health insurance coverage at that time. The hospital put me on a payment plan which was less costly per month than a health insurance policy. When did we start thinking that if something is not insured we were being denied health care? Why are we providing coverage for optional activities?
OB- you just knocked that one out of the park!
Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Libby, if I am as dumb as a box of rocks, you are dumber than a door knob. When will you understand that we don’t want the government to mandate anything on Healthcare coverage? That is the very reason insurance is unaffordable on the ACA. Mandates must go and the only way to do that is to dump this Progressive Dream.
Well, that’s where you and I disagree Agent. I think it should be a mandate that coverage is offered at an affordable price, but not mandated that you have to buy it. I want to be able to get the coverage I want/need and not have an insurance company tell me I can’t have it, and not buy the coverage I don’t/want need. Isn’t that what you Republicans have been bitching about?
Yes Libby, we have disagreed many thousand times because you have swallowed the Progressive position hook, line and sinker and won’t listen to Conservative ideas and really don’t mind having your freedoms taken away by an all powerful central government who wants to control all aspects of our lives.
It’s only affordable IF you qualify for a subsidy. Haven’t you been paying attention? The woman in the photo opp that was misquoted isn’t eligible now for a subsidy because at 50K she makes too much money and now she can’t afford the wonderful ACA with all its promise of grander. This affordable price you keep bringing up is not affordable to all. Obama lied! Our premiums would be reduced by $2500 per family we all heard him spout off when he was running. What a crock of shit.
I’m not talking about what is. I’m talking about what should be. I’ve already said the ACA is a disaster and needs a complete overhaul. But when I come up with suggestions for change, all I hear is “that’s not how it is now.” I KNOW that.
Libby says – ” I think it should be a mandate that coverage is offered at an affordable price”
If it was affordable, we would not be having this conversation. Everyone I am pricing except for the previously defined demographics (ICHIP & MAX RATED GROUPS)is going to have an increase in cost. Adverse selection (me included) is going to have a decrease.
“Should be” FFA. Should be…
Free Unicorns for everyone! You want the coverage, then get ready to pay for it. And keep your liberal pie holes shut when your premiums and taxes go up. I’m going to go ahead and get my I told you so in here.
You guys crack me up.
My religion adhears strictly to the Commandment “Thou Shall Not Kill”. Why then should I have to pay income tax that might provide money to be used by the CIA to murder people with their drones? I demand to be exempted from paying any Federal tax! It’s God’s will!
Thou Shall Not Kill applies to the innocent. The Bible does not say you can’t defend yourself with deadly force. Jesus suggested you have a concealed weapons permit.
Jack – are you saying all people killed by drones are not innocent? Innocent of what? Who decides who is and who isn’t innocent? I thought that was God’s job, not man’s.
So Libby, why is your President killing so many with drones if innocents are getting killed? Why did he brag about it saying I am pretty good at killing people. Obamacare is another manifestation of killing people since so many are losing their healthcare and will die without their coverage.
Did you ever hear me advocate killing of anyone, let alone by drones? No. And you never will.
The statement Obama made about killing people was not a brag. It was with great sadness that he said that. But you will not accept that.
Trust me Libby, your President really likes his drones and killing enemies with them. Unfortunately, they do kill innocents on the ground, but they are considered collateral damage.
Just what does that have to do with what Jack was saying? You don’t know any more about what Obama likes and doesn’t like than I do. But at least I heard about his comment from the person it was made to and got the context of it instead of making up shit like you do.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Great sadness! Pfffffffft!
Libby – yes Bush.
Once and for all, I did not advocate killing Bush. I said he should be tried for treason.
It just so happens the penalty for treason, at this time in this country, is death.
Dave twisted that around and said I wanted to kill Bush. I did not say that.
But if it happened I’m sure I would not shed a tear.
I think it’s jack’s job ;)
Shirley- my job is to defend myself, my wife, 3 daughters and any other innocent person i see fit to defend.
How do you determine the “innocent” ones? Just the Republicans?
Libby- Innocent people die every day. Some accidental,some intentionally at the hands of bad people. You know that. God judges our heart and soul. He gave us free will.
I do appreciate your question about who decides who is and who isn’t innocent. Outside of God,I think that depends on who’s in power. And thats the problem! When we like the person in power and their definition of right(innocent) and wrong(not innocent)we are ok with their judgements. But when you have man making the rules they can change depending again on who’s in power. You want to take religion out of politics, you end up with men making laws to fit their definition of right vs. wrong.
Well, who gets to decide which religion? Again, you have man making the decision of whose religion is “right” and whose is “wrong.” We just need to stop killing each other. Period.
Jack, in Texas, we take the right to defend ourselves seriously and have a right to use deadly force when someone breaks in our house. All we have to do is make sure they are inside and we are good to go.
Agent – I know you think Texas is something special, but that law applies almost everywhere.
Not in gun free zones in many of the liberal states Libby. That is an open invitation to a thug to rob or rape the helpless. Chicago is a prime example of strict gun control and they have the worst murder rate in the country.
Those are few and far between, Agent. And I did say almost anywhere, didn’t I?
Not any more agent. I think we rank third.
Agent, in SC we have stand your ground and don’t have to wait for him to come in ;)
The Commies are coming !
Gadfly- wake up, they are already here.
That’s what we get for taking witch-burning out of the schools.
Shirley- be careful there the muslims might think you are talking about them stoning and burning the homosexuals and women. It might incite a riot.
Running apts this AM. Yall been busy on the IJ…
Since A doesn’t want to pay for B’s maternity care who doesn’t want to pay for C’s birth control, why don’t we just get rid of healthcare insurance entirely. If you get sick, you get sick, deal with it yourself. Why expect me to pay for your cancer if I never get cancer?
Celtica,
You really don’t have a clue do you? Health insurance should be for the catastrophic things that happen to you like cancer. Not the little stuff like birth control OR Viagra for that matter. 1 out of every 5 women get diagnosed with breast cancer in her lifetime. Those are pretty high odds.
Always Amazed — speaking of cluelessness, that was a rhetorical question. I believe in a broad range of healthcare coverage because we do not know what is ahead of usl.
But if we are goign to pick and choose who pays for what, I really don’t want to pay for your breast cancer coverage if I am one of the 80% who doesn’t get it. If I do get it, I will opt in and pay coverage during the treatment period.
Isn’t that how y’all see pregnancy coverage? You don’t need it, so you don’t want to pay for it.
There. Happy now?
That would be why there is a different rate for male vs females. I have a minimal risk for breast cancer and you have a longer life expectancy which is why your life insurance is cheaper. We have a exhaust pipe and you have an intake manifold.
Not always. I had a guy who just cut my hair not so long ago and he told me that male breast cancer ran very high in his family and that the male memebers in his family had to have mammograms quite often. But the higer rate for females now applies to the males. What’s fair is fair.
FFA – since you want a pick and choose world, why should i pay for that prostate cancer in your exhaust pipe?
Well it might have been rhetorical but I had failed to see your dry sense of humor. That doesn’t mean I am clueless but Obama on the other had will always be clueless. He knew nothing about healthcare and this whole ACA mess proves it and so do his ratings. Why would a man who is supposed to so intelligent hire a foreign company, have all his Chicago thugs in is administration, and then roll out a health care plan that was less then have baked at best? Now, THAT really is clueless. So now let me ask: are YOU happy now?
If you are determined to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I will not stop you. However, the plan is working in those states that chose to embrace it. Those that didn’t are stomping their feet saying I told you so — to the detriment of their own residents.
Am I happy now? I am with ACA but not with the rollout in the states. It should have not have been as sloppy as it turned out to be. But that’s the rollout, not the plan itself.
Check this out — if you dare:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/obamacare-state-success-100338.html?hp=f2
It is working in the states that embraced it. How can that be when people who supposedly signed up for it haven’t even paid for it yet? Do the plans they applied for actually exist if no payment has been collected? I think not. And what about the millions – yes millions who have lost their coverage? Do you think those folks are embracing their letters of cancelation that they keep getting in the mail? I think not again. I’d be livid from hell right now had Humana had not extended my existing policy for another year. And you can bet that I’m not going to be happy next year this time when I have to choose a plan for the ACA that’s going to coat me more than what I my employer pays now for all the extra benefits that a woman my age does NOT need. Keep trying to spin this mess in a positive way if it makes you feel better. Obama ruined our health care for the 30 million who didn’t have it and some were by choice mind you not because they couldn’t get it – they simply chose not to and those are the 20 year old kids who like me when I was that old didn’t think that I needed it at that point in my life. Obama has angered more people in this country than he helped and his approval rate prove it. If he were running now he’d have lost the election.
No. It is not how I see pregnancy. I see getting pregnant is a choice. I don’t see getting cancer a choice. Heart disease runs in my blood line. I did not chose that.
when you buy maternity, you say when I get pregnant. When you buy health coverage, you say If I have a heat attach. I didn’t choose high cholesterol. when I was diagnosed, I adjusted my diet and don’t have a problem.
Having sex is a choice. Getting pregnant is not.
Are you saying having a baby is a choice so maternity costs should not be included in health insurance?
I am saying that it should be optional. If someone is active during the fertile years, they should have the choice of eating the bill or paying for an insurance carrier to eat it.
Yes, libby, in my book getting pregnant is a choice. Can choose to watch the calendar. Can choose to wrap it in plastic. Can choose to be on the pill. Many choices.
That’s exactly what I said, FFA. It should be a choice to purchase or not purchase it.
Libby, I agree with that 100%. That is the way it is now. That should not change.
FFA, There is always a cost associated with Healthcare coverage. When you have all these mandated coverages the libs think you must have, it runs the cost way up. You and I don’t need maternity, abortion, birth control, but we have to pay for others. That is what Socialism is all about. It is a giant wealth redistribution scheme and is so costly, it will bankrupt the country.
Most healthy young people of child-bearing age have little need for alzheimers coverage, or treatment for blood pressure, incontinence, and other age-related problems. But they have it.
The fact that you have birth control and maternity coverage does not necessarily mean you are paying an additional premium for it. That’s what actuaries and rate-making departments are for…
Why should health insurance be just for catastrophic things? HMOs are popular and a fabulous creation. They’ve been around for over 20 years (since I graduated from college at the very least).
Because SHE had a catastrophic illness. That’s why. Me, me, me, me…
But wouldn’t an HMO that covers cancer screenings detect the potentially catastrophic cancer before it becomes catastrophic?
Of course it would. I’m sure she wants THAT covered. She just doesn’t want anything covered that SHE doesn’t need. To hell with everyone else.
Aahh. You are probably correct, Libby.
So if I go to work for a company owned by a Christian Scientist….my health care would consist of “readings” and no medical treatments???? For you insurance junkies I remember having a GL endorsement to the med pay coverage that provided “readings” in addition to medical payments. Try and get that through an underwriter today.
It would fly right threw as religion don’t mean much to the govt any more. It would be free money for the carrier.
It too bad this free B/C wasn’t around when OBama & Pelosi were being conceived…
Hey FFA, do you think that website is fixed now like the Administration is claiming? I saw a report this morning that they are still scared to death that a large number of applicants will still crash the site. Also, a lot of people who thought they applied only to find the company has no record of them applying. Hmm! What a deal!
“jack says: Free Unicorns for everyone!” Yay, send mine now!
I have no clue what SCOTUS will rule, this could go either way. Too bad we won’t know anything until next summer (probably). I wonder how many articles will be on IJ in the mean time?
(I’ve changed my name since there is another jw posting on IJ. Wouldn’t want anyone confused.)
Why do all the Repubs on this site keep quoting Obama’s approval rating? What does that matter at this point in time? He’s not running for re-election.
Libby, the approval ratings are a reflection of his policies and decisions which are horrible to say the least. Don’t think his Democratic colleagues that voted for this mess haven’t taken note and are distancing themselves as much as they can. They are in full career saver mode now. I wonder how many will invite him to campaign for them for re-election. Didn’t work out so well with Charley Crist in Florida when he gave the President a big hug.
Probably about as many as asked Bush to campaign for them. They have about the same approval ratings.
So Libby, how come the good citizens of Colorado continue to recall politicians who were trying to ban guns and approved of legalizing marijuana even for recreational use? The latest casualty is one Evie Hudak who resigned before she could be recalled. Coupled with the movement of secession from the state by a number of counties, I think they have serious problems up in that state and some wrongs will be righted in the near future. These liberal lawmakers up there will be shown the door.
Agent – the secession movement has fizzled out. It was spearheaded by a very small minority of rural residents in northern Colorado.
The majority of the state is liberal, but it being the west, they like their guns. As far as pot goes, who cares? I’ve never seen any mass murderers or violent criminals result from smoking weed. It’s time we stop wasting money and resources trying to criminalize it. There are alot of other drugs (many popping up every day) and crimes we should be worrying about.
So Libby, you don’t think pot leads to more serious drug use and more crime? I have seen studies that Marijuana use is insidious and does lead to harder drugs like Cocaine and it quickly gets out of hand. Are you enjoying your imported pot because your posts are cloudy with that smoke.
Oh, Agent. Yea of many, many years. Have you never smoked pot before??? I don’t think anyone not already inclined to abuse drugs is going to go off the deep end and start shooting heroin because they smoked some pot. That’s like saying alcohol leads to alcoholism so we’d better outlaw it. Smoking weed, in and of itself, is no big deal. We need to stop wasting our time and money chasing after it, legalize it, and collect our tax money. Win-win.
Libby, it indicates confidence in our president. when it gets low, in my opinion only – any president should step down. I don’t know the magical number but say – 30% for 90 days???
It fluctuates for every president. Bush’s numbers were even lower at one point and he didn’t step down. In fact, I didn’t hear a big “impeach Bush” campaign coming from the right.
I think the Impeachment cries came from the left Libby. They were all over his case just like you have been. I don’t agree with all he did, but his biggest failing was being a RINO in the last two years and not cracking down on the liberals more. I wish he had come out with a speech to the American People about what was going on with Fanny & Freddie and warning about the impending housing meltdown, but he didn’t do it until far too late. Even with his flaws, he did keep the country safe from Terrorism his last 7 years.
That’s the best you can say about him? Even with his flaws, Obama has kept the country safe from terrorism for the last 5 years. I guess they’re even.
This is what happens when a law is not properly vetted by the entire Congress before vote is held in each house. Here, the law was packed with all the favored items the bureaucratic drafters wanted, then passed in the middle of the night without a single vote of the opposing party or even any meaningful debate on the floor of each house. Worse yet, passage without even knowing what was in it was espoused by then House Speaker Pelosi. No one voting on it had read it or even fully understood what they were voting on. Shrouding a sweeping law like Obamacare in secrecy, coupled with bribes to favored parties or groups, is the way it got passed and the Democrats in congress (not a single Republican voted for it) should be ashamed of themselves for ramming this law through in such a fashion – worse yet, late at night and at the last minute. If laws are to be passed this way from now on, we can kiss our democratic country good bye and get prepared to live under a single party, tyrannical government. In fact, we’ve already seen one step in that direction with the abolishment of the 200+ year old Senate filibuster privilege during presidential appointment confirmations. It is especially telling that the very Democrats, (especially Senate Leader Harry Reid) are on record as opposing it only a few years ago when Republicans controlled the Senate, now heartily endorse and passed it while they are in control. With two-faced people like this leading our country, how can we believe anything they say any longer?
After all Rusty, They did give lawmakers 48 hours to read a 2,700 page bill before voting on it. What do you want, a week? I think a lot of Democrats wished they had read it now that the disaster has struck and their political careers are in jeopardy. They can run from it, but they can’t hide. The shellacking of 2010 will be minor compared to 2014.
Agent – the bill was posted on 11/18/09 and debate started on 11/20/13. The Senate voted to end the debate on 12/23/13. The law was voted in on 12/24/13. So Democrats, and Republicans alike, had 35 days to review the bill before voting on it.
In July or August, 2009 the Republicans had already decided to unanimously vote against it (BEFORE it had even been presented) with Mitch McConnell saying:
“It was absolutely critical that everybody be together because if the proponents of the bill were able to say it was bipartisan, it tended to convey to the public that this is O.K., they must have figured it out.”
Republican opposition was a done deal before it even began and it didn’t make a damn bit of difference to them what was in the bill.
Libby, find me one Congressman or one Senator in either party who read the bill before they voted on it. In fact, the President didn’t read it either as is more evident with each passing day. If you like your plan, you can keep it. If you like your doctor, you can keep him. 39 times. Period!
Which is it? He didn’t read it or he lied? Pick a story. Any story. Make up a new one if you want. You’re good at that.
It seems all republicans have a problem with reading comprehension. Here is EXACTLY what Pelosi said during a speech at the 2010 Legislative Conference for the National Association of Counties AFTER the bill had been passed by the Senate.
Pelosi: People won’t appreciate reform until it passes
Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Tuesday that people won’t appreciate how great the Democrat’s health plan is until after it passes.
“You’ve heard about the controversies, the process about the bill…but I don’t know if you’ve heard that it is legislation for the future – not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America,” she told the National Association of Counties annual legislative conference, which has drawn about 2,000 local officials to Washington. “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it – away from the fog of the controversy.”
Context? We don’ need no stinkin’ context!
Exactly. Why understand the context when you make shit up as you go along?
Better check with FoxNews first, though.
The “pill” promotes promiscuity, poisons people (causes cancer) and pullutes the planet (residue, often flushed down toilets, has been found in wildlife on six continents).
By preventing attachment of fertilized eggs, it can also be said to cause abortion, i.e., to end the lives of the unique individuals that would otherwise have formed in their mothers’ wombs.
With all due respect, anyone who decides to use such a drug (a Faustian bargain if ever there was one) to make pleasure “worry free” (a false god, if ever there was one) ought to at least have the decency to pay for it herself.
Robert:
1. What planet are you from?
2. In what century were you born?
3. What “residue” are you talking about?
4. “Cause” abortion? Do you even understand how the pill works?
5. Why should “pleasure” NOT be worry free?
6. Is the punishment for “pleasure” pregnancy in your book?
Please help me understand your archaic and sexist thinking.
When the reason is clouded by lust, evil may appear to be good. I fear that your questions and comments imply that you look to Oprah and Lady Gaga for your wisdom, rather than to reason and revealed truth. You may even believe we have no free will and that the universe created itself from nothing. Perhaps you should give these matters more thought. We need to consider the issues objectively, i.e., as if we had not aborted any babies or taken poisonous drugs for decades in order to fornicate without “punishment.” It is worth reading some philosophy.
Godspeed,
Robert
You’re getting philosophy confused with fundamental Christianity. My God is not a punishing God like yours. He doesn’t punish me for enjoying what he put here on earth for me to enjoy. And my reason is not clouded by lust, nor do I look to Oprah &/or Lady Gaga for anything other than entertainment. You sound like a kook. Godspeed, Libby
Now that I read more of RH’s comments, I think this one may be a troll. Perhaps we should quit feeding it?
I was thinking the same thing.
Oh no! The fornicators!
What’s wrong with women these days, showing their ankles in public? It’s the end times!
You women want equal rights? Lose the shirts! Ok for me to go topless, its ok for you! Show off what we vow to save by walking endless miles!
Now, where did I leave my pink thong???
You walk countless miles for boobies, FFA?
No I don’t. But I do sponsor the walkers. I do go to fund raising “auctions” and my wife volunteers her time too. Breast Cancer Foundation gets at least $200.00 a year from me. I know its not much, but I have had people close to me deal with that to the point that the sib got elective removals (I cant spell the medical name). In the post op analysis, they did find cancer – a very small spec that would have killed her by now.
And no, I don’t have a pink thong either.
Oh. I get it. I do that, too. I walk and sponsor my cousins when they do the 3 day/60 mile walk – $100 a piece.
Yes Libby, very worth while cause. If they can find a cure for one cancer, a cure for the rest would likely be right around the corner.
The “pill,” as it is used in the majority of circumstances, is nothing more than a recreational drug.
Thank you for your in-depth and very wise respond, but you didn’t answer my questions. What residue? Is pregnancy a punishment for fornicating?
So, in your mind, married couples aren’t having sex? Just asking, because I know many couples who don’t want children at the moment and its either go without or rely on birth control. How does that make the pill a recreational drug?
jw, anything being done for fun is recreational. when we as a society have sex when the intended result is not children, we are doing it for fun ie recreation. No other reason but to achieve the big O. On my book anyways, that’s fun!
FFA, I can see the logic in calling it “recreational” since it isn’t “procreational”. ;)
Still, though, it isn’t a bad recreational drug since not everyone should be procreating. Seriously, this applies to married people too.
Hey KYjw, I don’t care if it is recreational or procreational. Employers shouldn’t be forced to pay for it on a health plan. It is all about personal responsibility anyway and it is cheap so the individual should pay for it out of pocket. It worked great for many years. Ever wonder why Catholics historically had large families? They depended on the natural cycles method and they had all kinds of accidents which produced children and they didn’t run to the abortion clinics either.
I was just responding to RH’s comment about the pill. He doesn’t want anyone to even TAKE it. I don’t really care who pays for it. My insurance would cover it if I needed it, but I have an HMO that pretty much covers everything. Well, as long as I go through my primary care physician.
Agent – if it’s so cheap, how much could the employer be paying for the coverage? You people keep saying how cheap it is but then are against covering it. You do know that you have to go to the doctor for a prescription, right? Do you want to cover that or are women on their own for that, too?
Robert, your religion is nothing more than a recreational drug, which has caused the slaughter of many, many innocent people throughout the centuries. So, you think it’s wrong to destroy a single cell, but murdering thousands is ok? Praise the lord!
I had a visit from one of the state senators today. He asked how Workers Comp reform is working out. You should have seen his jaw when I told him the cold hard facts of reality at the street level.
It did nothing but increase cost to the small business man.
Wow! Your state senator made a housecall to visit you? That’s impressive, FFA.
He is a republican. I guess he wants the input of small business. There are troubles in my town. Business after business going down. It was unexpected and unannounced. Only the second time I actually – with my own two eyes – saw a politician out talking to joe average. Today, he should be in Springfield as the Pension Reform is up for vote today (Per WGN). Looking like the tax payer in Il is getting saddled with the bill… what a surprise!
I told him they need to shit can all the comp commissioners. Also told him I am on the vote them all out plan regardless of party. Got a troubled look on his face when I told him that.
Good. I hope he spreads the word.
Too bad it wasn’t the senator from DC. Durbin needs to go! Time to change the good ole boys network.
Couldn’t agree more.
FFA, How many Democratic politicians have expressed interest in how you were doing as a business? Has Emanuel & Quinn been by to see you lately or do you just receive notices that your taxes are going up?
Agent, I am in the burbs, so I wont see Emanuel. Ditto on Quinn. He don’t give a damn about anything but Chicago. If not for Chicago, he would be collecting unemployment. If I remember correctly, he lost every county except three – one being Cook. In elections, cook is the only county that matters. Even had he won the other two, he still would have got in.
Hell, I don’t even get my local mayor in.
Once upon a time, my DC House rep approached me while I was walking down the side walk. That was on election day.
If State Farm is completely done in IL, all hell is going to break lose on election day. Many politicians will lose their jobs at all levels. How could they let a major employer walk out of state??? Right under their noses…
Well FFA, I guess that is the trouble with a state that is dominated by one county and one city. Thank goodness we are more spread out down here. Our politicians do stay in touch and I have shaken hands with everyone from Rick Perry down to my mayor. Liberals don’t like Perry because he is up north urging businesses to move to Texas for the tax advantages, the facilities, weather, work force and lower cost of living. Perry is all about business 24/7 and that is good enough for me. Let the sour puss Liberals scream about Social Justice if they like and business owners like it just fine down here.
Trust me, Agent. That is NOT why we don’t like him.
Agent,
Do not forget this part of Perry’s sales pitch:
If you happen to blow up a town, we will ask the Federal Government to save the day.
http://www.texastribune.org/2013/08/02/feds-approve-texas-request-west-recovery/
FFA, we fixed WC in Texas many years ago and now have a stable system and it does what it was intended to do. It was bad back in the day when lawyers sued for every cut finger and there was no voluntary market so we had to place everyone in the Pool at jacked up rates. Contractors had no choice because they couldn’t get jobs without it. Many other businesses fell out of the system and did Occupational Accident coverage, but we recouped most of them when WC recovered and rates came down.
Celtica says – “FFA – since you want a pick and choose world, why should i pay for that prostate cancer in your exhaust pipe”
I’m gonna die from a heart attack or a stroke – same as all my Grand Parents & Great Grand Parents did – quickly… Dads mom died of Breast Cancer. Not likely for me. I’m still an A cup. I don’t need a manzier. Working off the Florida Fat I came home with.