Death Spiral Unlikely for Obamacare: Study

By Jason Lange | December 18, 2013
Obamacare

  • December 18, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    knowall says:
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    How in the world could anyone tell at this point? They aren’t even collecting much in premiums are they?

    Most people in their 20′s, esp if they are saddled with student loan debt and/or are unemployed, could care less whether older folk have insurance or not.

  • December 18, 2013 at 1:32 pm
    Whodathunkit? says:
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    I wonder what impact the fact that older americans out number younger americans play in these calculations. So far it looks like there are three subsidized insureds for every one unsubsidized. Add to that the fewer young people financing the older people. I’m no actuary but the numbers just don’t seem to add up.

  • December 18, 2013 at 1:38 pm
    Pete says:
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    Come on `Whodathunkit’! You’ve been told that the numbers add up! Don’t you believe what you’ve been told? Why would you question anything you’ve been told about this law? Even the `honest abe’ President of our country said everything will be roses and syrup! Why do you question these things?

    OK, bend over now!

    • December 18, 2013 at 2:21 pm
      KY jw says:
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      LOL

      Roses and syrup?

  • December 18, 2013 at 1:46 pm
    FFA says:
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    I have 5 total apps in – all adverse older selection. One exception a 27 yr old gal that’s 6 months pregnant. Ony ones I know that are biting are the ones with out or the ones on max rated groups.

    • December 18, 2013 at 6:15 pm
      InsGuy says:
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      I agree FFA. Age isn’t the only demographic that should be looked at. I’d like more info on those less than 30-somethings that signed up. i.e, Male/Female healthy/not. I L&H companies can track “clean claims” can’t they also track “clean apps”.

      Young’ens have cross-sections with health issues just like every other group, Type I Diabetes, transplants, AIDs, etc. Are they really going to be the solution to the funding gap??

      Unless there’s another “boomer” gen, the bell curve won’t shift back for another 20-30 years (when the current “boomers” exit the equation).

    • December 20, 2013 at 5:48 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, the title of this article is – Death Spiral Unlikely for Obamacare: Study. Hmm, in view of recent facts that have come to light, this may have been written in October when they thought the plan may have some merit. Obviously, they were as wrong as could be.

  • December 18, 2013 at 2:01 pm
    Good Grief says:
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    I’d guess that the folks doing the tally don’t understand insurance pricing. This is one possible cause of the “death spiral”, but it doesn’t address the fact that healthy Americans will find it cheaper to pay the fine cum tax rather than pay a subsidized insurance rate. The people rushing to the marketplace today are those who HAVE to have insurance — pre-existing conditions, elderly, pregnant etc.

    Next year, when rates go up (and it’ll be a lot more than a 3% increase), those folks who find it cheaper to self-insure will drop out and pay the fine. That leaves a more concentrated group of sick, pre-existing conditions and elderly in the pool, which means the claim experience is worse. That means rates go up…again.

    2016 rolls around and the next group of folks drop out who find it more afforadable to pay the fine…more concentration of sick and elderly…and prices go up again…and so forth and so on. This is the undiscussed death spiral that seems more likely at this point.

    There are plenty of real-life, and recent, examples of this happening in the industry. When carriers get behind the rate curve, and don’t have the flexibility to move off policies or adjust pricing enough to turn a profit, they lose more and more money until they pull out of the state or open a new company with new pricing and rules.

    I think the real issue is telling insurance companies they have to take all comers, they have to offer high level of coverage (that increases pricing and prohibits a more cost-sensitive policy), and they can’t increase pricing at will. The end result will be ugly — the one guaranteed loser is the consumer.

  • December 18, 2013 at 2:06 pm
    Scott R. says:
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    I think we can judge success or failure by the number of people who willingly pay the fine rather than paying for insurance. We’ll see.

    • December 18, 2013 at 2:50 pm
      Just a Mom says:
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      I have a question, I am in P&C, so not up to date on all the ins and outs of this Obamacrap…. I know if people don’t purchase it, they can be fined. What happens when they go to the Dr/Hosp/whatever?? Does the Dr just charge them a fee to be paid in cash or is there a protocol that Dr. has to deal with if the patient is uninsured? This is just inquiring minds want to know….

      Thanks for any responses!

      • December 18, 2013 at 3:22 pm
        FFA says:
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        The doc will direct bill them what ever the charge is. When they don’t pay, the doc will send to collection and settle for about 0.60 on the dollar or the patient will claim Bankruptcy.
        In other words, business as usual except they pay a fine to the govt.

        • December 19, 2013 at 10:31 am
          Agent says:
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          FFA, did you see the AMA report saying blood pressure readings of 149/89 were ok for older Americans? My doctor would get excited if my blood pressure readings were approaching that and get me on a medicine to bring it down. I guess the AMA, who signed onto Obamacare don’t care how many strokes and heart attacks people will have. That is a good way to get rid of the Senior population by rationing care.

          • December 19, 2013 at 2:22 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 19, 2013 at 2:35 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 19, 2013 at 2:53 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, your selective memory on the AMA is faulty. They were the first of the doctors associations to jump on the bandwagon. Of course, they only made up 17% of the doctor population and many other doctors jumped on their so called endorsement. I wonder if all those white coats lined up at the White House were AMA guys or just government bureaucrats dressed up to look like doctors with their stethoscopes draped on their shoulders.

          • December 19, 2013 at 3:57 pm
            Libby says:
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      • December 18, 2013 at 8:14 pm
        Just a Dem says:
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        • December 19, 2013 at 10:59 am
          Agent says:
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          So Dem, are you saying it is perfectly alright to ruin the Healthcare for 85% of Americans and shift the costs of the deadbeats to them making their costs much higher for coverage? Isn’t that the definition of redistribution of wealth that this scheme embodies? The deadbeats already have access to Medicaid if they bother applying. Pools were taking care of the PreX’s. Why a one size fits all model so that the libs can have their precious benefits at the expense of the majority of Americans who liked what they had? Why get 6 million canceled who face a lapse of coverage in a few short weeks?

          • December 19, 2013 at 2:24 pm
            Libby says:
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        • December 20, 2013 at 11:21 am
          Agent says:
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          Libby, if there are 17% of the doctors for it, that means 83% are against it. I would imagine many of the AMA doctors that were for it back in 2010 have changed their tune by now. Dr. Carson couldn’t find one doctor for it in his recent travels and he has talked to a bunch of them.

  • December 18, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    Dave says:
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    “This helps make insurance more affordable for older Americans who most need it, but it requires the young to pay more to subsidize the old.”

    Isn’t this the very definition of a Ponzi scheme? Much like the Ponzi schemes of Social Security and Medicare which combined have unfuded liabilities of well over $80 trillion. Doesn’t this program start out with 10 years of taxes funding 6 years of benefits to make it look like this program is fiscally sound? What about the next 10 years where 10 years of taxes will be funding a full 10 years of benefits? It’s all a Ponzi scheme and Obama will be long gone when it blows up much like Roosevelt is long gone after constructing these $80 trillion dollar in deficit programs.

    • December 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm
      Agent says:
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      I agree for the most part Dave only I would call it a Socialist Ponzi scheme. It is also not Insurance, but a control mechanism for the left. They want to control every aspect of our lives and the opportunity to control one sixth of the economy was too much for them to pass up. Government mandates are the big issue and not giving Americans a choice, but replace what they liked is not a good solution to reforming Healthcare.

      • December 18, 2013 at 3:49 pm
        Sargeant Major says:
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        Dave, Agent, Unfortunately, you are correct. The Federal government has raided Social Security and Medicare to pay for “other” things like—- Obamacare. They do nothing but issue IOUs to SS and Medicare in the form of US debt and then have to go borrow from China or whoever to make their debt payments so US citizens can get their SS and Med payments. It becomes a vicious cycle. This is the same thing that the city of Detroit did and they filed for bankruptcy because there was no more room on the credit card and they could not make their obligations.
        So here is my question- We always hear of things like the federal government taking 716 billion out of Medicare to pay for Obozocare or the Fed taking money out of Social Security and that SS is underfunded and will need to restructure the SS system. Why don’t we ever hear about the federal government taking money out of Medicaid? Why don’t we hear of the federal government taking money out of Welfare system?
        I am all for funding medicaid and welfare for those truly in need while they get themselves back on their feet. But, it has been shown in several studies that fraud in Medicaid and welfare runs from 30 to 60%, depending on who you want to believe.

        • December 18, 2013 at 6:22 pm
          InsGuy says:
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          Sarge, there isn’t “money in welfare”. Remember, the food stamps are in the Agriculture budget, and you’ve seen recently what happens when people mess with the Agriculture budget (Remember the Oct 1. crap) Regardless of what WH spin the liberal media fed us, that was [mostly] about the Republicans messing with the food stamp funding. period.

          • December 18, 2013 at 8:34 pm
            Sargeant Major says:
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            InsGuy,
            You are right when in comparison to SS or Medicare. But that said there is a terrible amount of fraud in the Welfare and food stamp system and not one of the Democrats want to do anything about it and never have. It would be nice to see one, at least one program with rampant fraud addressed.

          • December 18, 2013 at 8:36 pm
            Sargeant Major says:
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            Talk about fraud? According to The Detroit Free Press, Governor Snyder just signed a law that prohibits Welfare recipients from running their card through an ATM at liquor stores, horse tracks and strip clubs. Snyder is a Republican. Under the former Governor Jennifer Granholm (D) (otherwise known as Jennifer Grandtheft for her tax policy), bridge cards were given away to just about everyone. My son called me from college one day and said he was going down to get a bridge card because all the students got them and you could buy beer and not spend his stipend I sent him. I said absolutely not.

            http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013312180150

          • December 19, 2013 at 10:04 am
            Agent says:
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            You are right Sargeant. The fraud and abuse on Food Stamps is horrendous, but what politician in DC will take it on and do something about it. They would be called racists as just one of the terms used. I saw an article the other day that Florida just busted a ring and arrested about 60 perps for selling the cards etc. Millions are involved in this loss. I am afraid this country has a significant number of people who try to game the system.

            On a slightly different note, the people applying for Healthcare on the government site should be signing up with Lifelock, the ID theft protection firm to protect themselves because their identity will be stolen by the legion of hackers out there. Lifelock will be kept very busy and investors may want to buy some of their stock since they are a growth industry.

    • December 18, 2013 at 3:03 pm
      knowall says:
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      When LBJ was signing (Medicare) he told his staffers, probably under his breath, whatever you do do not tell anyone what this will actually cost

      • December 18, 2013 at 6:19 pm
        Agent says:
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        Progressive Liberals like LBJ was has caused the economic ills of this country for 40 years. He took the Social Security Trust Fund and moved it into the General Fund to pay for his War on Poverty. Anyone see an improvement of the status of the poor? Adding insult to injury, Clinton/Gore started taxing Social Security benefits which weren’t supposed to be taxed. These guys were all crooks and should have been confined to cells next to Bernie.

        • December 19, 2013 at 11:17 am
          Ron says:
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          Agent,

          Do you hold Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush and Obama accountable at all for not moving Social Security Trust Fund back out of the General Fund?

          I blame all of them for that failure.

          • December 19, 2013 at 1:29 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, do you agree that a Progressive Liberal is the one that actually did it to start with and do you agree that Progressive Liberals like Clinton/Gore were the ones responsible for taxing Social Security benefits that FDR promised would not be touched by subsequent administrations? I hardly think Nixon, Ford, Reagan, HW or GW would have instituted this grand theft of the American Peoples money to pay for a liberal agenda that was totally wasted. We may agree that once something is done by the Federal Government and put into practice, it is never reversed. Have you ever seen a candidate of either party run on the promise of moving Social Security back into the Trust Fund? If so, let me know and I will vote for him. Usually what I hear is to move the retirement age to a higher age so they can save it. What? I think they like the money they are playing with too much.

          • December 19, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            Ron says:
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    • December 19, 2013 at 2:57 pm
      Agent says:
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      You are right for once Libby. Texas had a perfectly good Pool for the PreX’s. All you had to have was two rejections from the Health markets and you could get in. Sorry about your state. They were not into making coverage available. Now, all the Pools are being destroyed and the PreX people will have to go to Obamacare or Medicaid. By the way, all the working poor do have access to Medicaid if they bother to apply. I know they can’t afford Obamacare.

      • December 19, 2013 at 3:55 pm
        Agent says:
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        Ron, I agree with you partially. If you check the record on Gore as the President of the Senate as VP, he cast the tie breaking vote to allow taxation of Social Security. Was his lock box taxable income for government use? By the way, it might have been a tie on LBJ’s biggest mistake. The Trust Fund was huge, but him trumping up the Gulf of Tonkin incident got us in big trouble in Vietnam. Kennedy was smart enough to begin an exit strategy, but he got assassinated before he could do it. LBJ and his military complex people really wanted to make some money off that war and they got their wish. That was a bigger quagmire than Iraq/Afghanistan combined is now. How many did we lose, 44,000+ and people are just as upset now with only a fraction of that lost in the Middle East wars. If we want to do a review of the wars the country has had in the past 100 years, let’s look at WW1. Woodrow Wilson – Progressive Democrat, WW2, FDR, Progressive Democrat, Korea – Harry Truman- Democrat, Vietnam -LBJ, Progressive Democrat. Gulf War 1 – HW Bush after Saddam invaded Kuwait. Gulf War 2 – GWBush after Saddam was developing WMD’s that everyone including Democrats thought he had and had used on his own people and against Iran in their war. Afghanistan – GWBush after being attacked on 9-11 I think the Progressive Democrats have it by a wide margin for committing forces to war.

        • December 19, 2013 at 4:13 pm
          Ron says:
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          • December 20, 2013 at 11:36 am
            Agent says:
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            Ron, so you admit Gore ran on a lie. My memory of his positions is not good enough to remember him ever say he would move Social Security back to the Trust Fund. With a Progressive, it is wise not to believe what they say, just what they do. If I recall, he did his vote when he was VP and before he ran for President. The record was already there. Yes, you are correct I didn’t vote for AlGrr. I pointed out the wars because liberals seem to think Repubicans are Cowboys eager to wage war and the record of who was in office when we got into war is clear. FDR was looking for an excuse to get into WW2 even though the country had no stomach for it so he got caught with his pants down with Pearl Harbor and was totally unprepared to defend it. LBJ wanted us in Vietnam and got his wish. Democraps are always weak on defense and our enemies figure out that is the best time to strike us.

          • December 20, 2013 at 12:36 pm
            Ron says:
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  • December 18, 2013 at 2:38 pm
    Ryan says:
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    Am I the only one that thinks this “report” is a bit biased? one of the largest health care providers in the country happens to due a report about how obamacare is a good thing… hmm…

    • December 19, 2013 at 10:01 am
      FFA says:
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      I am sure they got a tax break to come out and say what OfnBama wants them to say.

      The Demographics I am putting into this – NO WAY THIS WILL WORK… I have heard many times already for the young crowd, I’ll just pay the fine…

      There is no way they got the pricing correct….

      • December 19, 2013 at 10:13 am
        Agent says:
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        FFA, what other line of insurance you handle for your customers requires no underwriting to issue coverage? The only question I saw on the app remotely asking a relevant question was whether you smoke or not. On a Life App, they ask that and also about health conditions that would determine the class and rate table or if the condition is bad enough, you get declined. Also, they do a paramed and check blood and urine to verify info. Height and weight are also a consideration for rate class. Life companies are no dummies like Obamacare is. Unlike this current Healthcare debacle, the young and healthy get terrific rates for Level Term Life and it is so cheap they can buy large amounts of coverage and not strain their budgets. The young and invincible’s get penalized under Obamacare so they can subsidize the sick and older crowd. Everything is totally upside down in this scheme.

        • December 19, 2013 at 10:53 am
          FFA says:
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          I offer a life product with only two U/W questions – Are you Terminal? Are you Confined to facility?
          A $5000 face amount would cost a 65 yr old almost $300 @ month. It would only pay the full face amount in year #3.

          • December 19, 2013 at 1:14 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, the company is ahead of the game if the senior makes it two years since they have collected $7,200 by then. They are betting that the applicant doesn’t croak in the first year. By the way, $5,000 doesn’t cover the typical funeral expense these days. I have seen Funeral Homes that are licensed to sell Burial Insurance and they sell a guarantee that the expenses are covered (as long as the funeral is at their home). I don’t know about your area, but there is a big rise in cremations in our area due to the cost of funerals, embalming, caskets, burial plots etc. The cost is generally less than half the full funeral.

          • December 19, 2013 at 1:31 pm
            FFA says:
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            Agent, This does have a cash build up feature that can apply to the DB. At some point in the future, the client does come out ahead.
            Average Funeral is over $15,000 in my neck of the woods.
            Cremation over $5000.
            Don’t include any plots.
            In 20+ years in this biz, have not sold one of them…. People know how to do math the old fashion was – NOT THE OfnBAMA WAY.

          • December 26, 2013 at 10:25 am
            InsGuy says:
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            So, you sell a life product that pays its face amount of $5K only after the insured has paid $7200 in premium?

            I think you’d better check your E&O coverage and make sure your carrier is A+ – rated.

      • December 19, 2013 at 10:24 am
        Agent says:
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        FFA, a tax break is not all the carriers would be getting. They have been told when the claims roll in on the PreX crowd and they are taking a big hit, they will be bailed out just like the banks and AIG were when they got into serious trouble. Microsoft has probably been told they would get some nice tax breaks to come in and try to fix the site.

      • December 24, 2013 at 1:31 pm
        LiveFree says:
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        “There is no way they got the pricing correct….”

        That is right on the nose FFA. The government (as their proven track record shows) is unable to relate to pricing as determined by free market forces. They guess and ALWAYS guess wrong.

        In fact Gov’t regulations subsidizing employer funded healthcare coverage and along with AMA licensure has lessened price sensitivity to near zero in the healthcare industry and that is the main reason for the high prices. If that was just addressed (pull out all gov’t regulation of the industry!) the consumers would make decisions based on pricing along with quality and doctors would offer the right quality of service for the prices acceptable to the consumers.

        I find it ironic that they are trying to make healthcare more affordable with more regulations when that is precisely what has ruined the healthcare industry in the first place.

    • December 26, 2013 at 3:03 pm
      Agent says:
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      Ron, you are running in circles as usual. When a VP who is President of the Senate casts the tie breaking vote to tax Social Security, I hardly think he would have followed through and put Social Security back into the Trust Fund. He, like most Progressive Democrats liked having all that money available to spend in the General Fund. His whole life is a fraud and his position on Global Warming is also fraudulent. He likes those Carbon credits so he can make himself richer. He then sells his TV interests to Al Jazeerah for more money. They might have made an unwise investment since their viewership is almost non-existent.

      • December 26, 2013 at 3:20 pm
        Ron says:
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    • December 26, 2013 at 4:50 pm
      Agent says:
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      Ron, there may have been a good reason why you didn’t vote for Gore since he was and is a serial liar. His lips don’t move without a lie coming out of them. By the way, the stage for weakness was set by Clinton who did practically nothing about the Terrorists and Bin Laden prior to Bush taking office. He paid little attention to the African Embassy bombings, USS Cole, Kobar Towers, the first World Trade Center attack and all he did was bomb an empty training site for Al Quida in Afghanistan and bomb an Aspirin factory in Sudan. Way to go Slick Willy. His second term was taken up by his scandal and Impeachment Hearings. By the way, all of our intelligence agencies didn’t talk much about imminent threats back on those days since they had their own turf. It really didn’t make much difference who was in office, the Terrorists were going to do their thing. By the way, your Geography also needs some work. This country has the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans on our borders and we were a little hard to attack although the Japanese were pretty successful in Hawaii. Now, we get attacked on our own soil or our installations overseas are attacked. We were very weak militarily under FDR prior to WW2 and soldiers had to train with wooden rifles in basic training. Carter let the military go badly in his short tenure. When our hostages were taken in Iran, he eventually tried to rescue them and our planes broke down in the desert due to poor maintenance and lack of spare parts. I give Ronny all the credit for re-building our military from the imbecilic Carter. Did you happen to read that the Iran hostages were released the day Ronny was sworn in? They didn’t want to mess with Ronny. He also let Ghadafi have it in Libya when they brought the Pam Am airliner down. Ghadafi turned over all his nuclear plans and didn’t allow Terrorists to train in his desert after that. Ronny was the right leader at the right time. By the way, your last idiotic statement about Bush was that you didn’t vote for him was that he wasn’t a fiscal conservative. Did you expect him to apologize to Bin Laden and make nice, or take some action and exact revenge for 3,000+ innocent American lives? That takes money to build up the military and launch strikes against them. Who among the Democrats can you name that would practice fiscal restraint when we had a war on? They don’t know the meaning of fiscal restraint.

      • December 27, 2013 at 8:10 am
        Ron says:
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        • December 27, 2013 at 11:11 am
          Agent says:
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          Ron, your father in law could not have been more accurate about you. If he could see your posts, he would say to all of us, I figured out this guy early on and he is a Progressive wolf in Independent clothing. Your knowledge of history and the unintended consequences of weak leadership is appalling. The stage had been set for many years under Clinton and the new President Bush had been in office less than 9 months when 9/11 happened, intelligence agencies didn’t communicate to warn anyone about imminent threats so you just blame Bush, just like Libby and some of the others. Why did all the previous attacks not resonate with Democrats & Republicans and why did they not act to shore up our Intelligence community and force them to communicate with each other to prevent an attack? Yes, Bush was in office, but you can’t just lay blame on him alone. It was a failure of all parties involved. Should he just have apologized to Bin Laden and sent him some money so he wouldn’t attack us again? A Democrat like Gore would have more than likely done that since he was a milk toast liar anyway. It is interesting that you think we marginalized Bin Laden. Ron, he killed 3,000+ Americans and you just brushed him off, thinking he was just hiding out in a cave. He was thinking of ways to hurt us 24/7 and organizing his legions to carry out plots. Many have tried and one of his followers, Major Hassan of our own military managed to gun down our unarmed soldiers at Ft Hood. Your President called that “workplace violence” even after he yelled out Allah Akbar as he began shooting. What a travesty of imbecilic nonsense.

          On what grounds did Iran fear Ronny before he was sworn in? Ronny had made several speeches in the campaign vowing to rebuild the military after the peanut farmer had allowed it to degenerate and morale was very low. Ronny was no nonsense strong on national defense. My proof is what he did to Khadafi in Libya. They didn’t need to see his movies, they were smarter than you apparently are.

          • December 27, 2013 at 3:27 pm
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  • December 18, 2013 at 3:31 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    This is speculation and unsupported at that. What they don’t say is:
    * That “next years potential slight increase” is on top of the 50,60,100 or 200% that comes this year to “unsubsidized” citizens.

    *Or the deductible increases from say $500 or $1,000 to $2,500, $3000 or $5,000 per family member.

    *Plus the numbers presented assume those 6 million people who were cancelled would all come back in the system.

    * It also assumes that those enrolled (all 364,000 of them) will actually buy and PAY for the coverage they enrolled in. That won’t happen. At lease some of those will change their mind, not be able to pay, rather pay the fine etc. So the actual number of enrollees are not all buyers.

    • December 18, 2013 at 6:20 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargeant, but Jay Carney said millions were enrolling and they like what they see. Anymore Kool Aid sippers want to refute this?

      • December 19, 2013 at 10:54 am
        FFA says:
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        Millions of Adverse Selection… Wonder how they are going to like their tax bill.

        • January 20, 2014 at 10:56 am
          Agent says:
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          FFA, millions for Medicaid. The tax bill groweth for everyone except the 47% that pay nothing.

      • January 7, 2014 at 5:36 pm
        Agent says:
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        Sargeant, in his press conference last week, the now bearded one Carney could not answer how many millenials had enrolled in Obamacare even though he proudly proclaimed that 2 million had enrolled. I guess that pesky website cannot pull up info by date of birth either. My suspicion is that they don’t want anyone to know how few the number is.

  • December 18, 2013 at 3:50 pm
    Vickie says:
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    Obamacare won’t solve the problem. How about if we start at the bottom.

    1. Stop frivolous law suits against Doctors and Hospitals. Medical professionals aren’t God and sometimes bad things just happen.
    2. Stop overcharging for services – $15 Kleenex that cost significantly less and so on???
    3. Insurers STOP paying when bills are over inflated.

    Maybe healthcare insurance costs would go down.

    • December 18, 2013 at 4:11 pm
      FFA says:
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      Your wise beyond your years!

    • December 18, 2013 at 6:23 pm
      Agent says:
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      Vickie, no one wants to see all the frivolous charges on a hospital bill that is long as your arm for a two or three day visit. Anyone with insurance experience knows that is not what the hospital is eventually paid. They have contracts with insurance companies and what is paid is usually a fraction of the billing. Medicaid will actually pay less than any private plan. No wonder they don’t want to take Medicaid patients.

    • December 19, 2013 at 10:08 am
      Richard says:
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      Agree, let the market work.

      1) Require an itemized bill upfront for all care (except emergency), you are not responsible if the actual bill is more than 10% of this amount. They do it for car repair in many states, why not here. Then people can comparison shop.
      2) Ban doctor kickbacks from pharma and med device companies – they after commercial insurance commission disclosure but that is often a transaction between 2 generally sophisticated parties. The level of assymetric inofmration is much more in medicine, best to ensure that the doctor’s advice is not tainted.

      • December 19, 2013 at 2:23 pm
        Agent says:
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        Richard, unfortunately Obama and his minions were not into private market solutions offered by Republicans back in the day. No shopping across state lines, no pooling of applicants for better pricing, no Tort Reform to lower costs for doctors or hospitals. No State Pools for the PreX crowd. They could have subsidized that and I wouldn’t have minded. When Progressives had their mind made up to do this, they would not be deterred because they think they are the smartest people in the room and really don’t care who gets hurt as has been proven out.

        • December 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm
          Ron says:
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          • December 23, 2013 at 2:44 pm
            Agent says:
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            Well Ron, they did manage to get Medicare Part D done on a bipartisan basis, unlike the partisan basis Obamacare was passed. By the way, Hillarycare was such a disaster, it didn’t get any traction in Congress back in the day. Only Progressives have been hankering for national healthcare for 100 years and when they saw their opportunity, look what we got for the trouble. By the way, there was a small incident that shifted the focus for most Americans called 9-11. Who on either side of the aisle were pushing Healthcare for several years. The country was in full survival mode and seeking to take out the evildoers.

          • December 23, 2013 at 4:04 pm
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    • December 24, 2013 at 1:36 pm
      LiveFree says:
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      Number 2 and 3 are perfect examples of what happens when price sensitivity of consumers gets taken out of the equation because of government regulations, subsidies, and licensure.

      It’s like when the company is paying for your trip you might as well upgrade to business or first class right?

      • December 26, 2013 at 12:46 pm
        Agent says:
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        Ron, your skull is so thick, it would take a military grade bullet to penetrate it. I give you history, and you come right back to complaining that Republicans haven’t done anything to fix Healthcare. Do you really think any Republican bill to fix Healthcare would make it past Harry Reid’s desk? It hasn’t worked for 5 years, so why would it now? No debate, no vote. I wonder what has happened to Mary Landrieu’s bill. Is it being debated or voted on? She is a Democrat trying to save her butt in the mid terms, but I doubt Harry cares to let it be debated. He takes all his directions from the White House.

        • December 26, 2013 at 1:14 pm
          Ron says:
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          • December 26, 2013 at 2:51 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, your head is still too thick to understand anything. Please go into your websites and prove there was any stomach to do Healthcare Reform in either party during the early years of the War on Terror. Besides that, there was still a bad taste in their mouths over the debacle of Hillarycare and there was no interest in revisiting that any time soon. By the time of the Pelosi,Reid, Obama triumverant came into office, that is when it was dredged up out of the slime of Progressive programs and they decided it was a perfect time to impose their will on the people. Nancy proudly proclaimed that she would pole vault the fence to get it done. Then, when she bribed, cajoled, threatened enough Blue Dogs to get it passed, she famously said she had to pass it to see what was in it. The people now know what was in it and they are comprehensively rejecting it as we see with each passing week. Don’t give me any of your nonsense about the Republicans not having a plan of reform. They were told, we won, you lost so get in the back of the bus.

          • December 26, 2013 at 3:40 pm
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  • December 19, 2013 at 10:05 am
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    • December 19, 2013 at 10:17 am
      Agent says:
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      Gadfly, your moniker fits you perfectly. A gadfly is a blood sucking insect who likes to visit cows butts for their sustenance.

    • December 19, 2013 at 10:49 am
      Sargeant Major says:
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      Gadfly

      So you prefer crappy government controlled insurance at twice the price and twice the deductibles, and half the patient service? I guess one could go bankrupt twice as fast.

      • December 19, 2013 at 10:55 am
        FFA says:
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        Wonder how you will feel when the 2014 tax bill is due…
        Gonna hurt.

        • December 19, 2013 at 11:25 am
          Agent says:
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          FFA, Gadfly is one of the 47% who don’t pay taxes, collect Food Stamps, Government Housing, Disability and their activity is limited to OWS rallies and blogging on this site.

      • December 19, 2013 at 2:13 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hey Sargeant, I saw an article today and need you to confirm it for me since you are from the Detroit area. It said the Detroit News reported the first Obama Gas Station had opened up which apparently had funding through Obamacare. The lie they told was that it would serve underprivileged people and give them “free” gas so they could get to their doctor or hospital for treatment. They will let the blacks pump free, but everyone else has to pay the going rate if they stop there. Hmm! I wonder if they will give free gas to the drug dealer who rolls up in his Escalade with the fancy rims. This is blatant reverse discrimination. The article said this in just the first of 70 planned stations and the sign has Obama plastered all over it. Let me know if this is true. I wouldn’t put it past them. They can use CITGO gas since Obama and Venezuela are tight.

        • December 19, 2013 at 2:32 pm
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          • December 19, 2013 at 2:48 pm
            Agent says:
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            I wasn’t talking to you Libby and Sargeant lives there so I prefer to get my information from a real source, not a left wing Snopes site. All I was doing was asking for a confirmation, not an attack from you! If it isn’t true, that will be the end of it for me. Of course, it is never the end of it with you.

          • December 19, 2013 at 4:19 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 19, 2013 at 5:13 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, Sarge does a good job showing the Youtube. The last one he sent had every major Democrat agreeing with GW on WMD’s in Iraq. Yet, you continue to post that GW was the only one responsible for that war. I promise you every one of those Democrats were ardent in their support. I would like you to call them all liars if you are sticking to your story on GW. Careful, Bill & Hillary were in there stoking the fire as well. Too bad you can’t hear from their own lips what they say. You prefer to go on your leftist sites for your info.

          • December 19, 2013 at 8:31 pm
            Sargeant Major says:
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            Agent,
            You have to admit Libby sure is entertaining. A couple days ago she quotes Newsmax. The next day she crits Newsmax when someone else posted the source.
            Yesterday she crits Snopes when someone uses it. Now today she posts Snopes as a source. If it is something she don’t like she crits it and if she likes it she uses it (Recall the Klu Klux Klan website she referred to).
            Now she says she can’t get sound on You tube. Why use You tube? It is a little hard to deny the words coming out of their mouth. But hey, she doesn’t have sound, can’t plug is a cheap set of headphones, doesn’t watch TV (oops, only local TV) and does not know who Obama’s press Secretary, Jay Carney (Mouthpiece)is. I now know why she is uninformed and misguided- LOL!!!

          • December 20, 2013 at 10:40 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 24, 2013 at 10:02 am
            Dave says:
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            Yeah Libby, same old lame-brained Democratic talking point. And A blatant lie much like your President has become so attuned to. Bush did not lie about weapons of mass destruction you liar! He got bad intelligence. Israel got bad intelligence. France got bad intelligence. Germany got bad intelligence. Great Britain got bad intelligence. Pretty much the entire Western world got bad intelligence about weapons of mass destruction Iraq. Unless of course the weapons of mass destruction in Syria came from Iraq. You want a lie you stupid liberal? Here’s one. Obama got really good intelligence about the attacks in Benghazi indicating it was an organized terrorist attack. He and his administration went on to lie for weeks that it was a protest arising out of a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxf77xQ_NLU&list=FL9lJuRBjktDPY_TeM76IBSw&index=31

            There was an election coming up so they had to lie. Once that lie was exposed he then lied about the fact that he said it was the video. He lied and said he called it a terrorist attack the next day, compounding his lie. Quit with the moronic lying talking point that Bush lied. It is your boy who lied and lied again.

            If you like your medical insurance you can keep it. Period!
            If you like your doctor you can keep him. Period!

            Now take your constant lies and shove them where the sun does shine you lying *##@$!

        • December 19, 2013 at 8:23 pm
          Sargeant Major says:
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          Agent,

          Not that I am aware of. That would have made big headlines and I have not seen it. n fact the 97% of Detroit citizens who voted for Obama are mad he did not “Send the bacon back to Detroit” after they all voted for him- HAHA. It would be kind of interesting if they did, why? I doubt they could get it built as thieves would be hauling off the materials most everyday without police to watch over them. It would be robbed regularly of any change it might keep. The Chaldeans (arab- Chritian Iraqs)who run most of the gas stations in Detroit would be up in arms and there goes some voters.

          I hope they try it !!

          • December 20, 2013 at 10:14 am
            Agent says:
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            Ok Sargeant, I knew you would know if anything was going on up there. By the way, what will happen to the unfunded pensions of the City workers with this bankruptcy going on? If the money is not in the till, I wonder if the union will settle for somewhat less on the accounts or will it just go away?

          • December 20, 2013 at 10:42 am
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          • December 20, 2013 at 12:48 pm
            Ron says:
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          • December 20, 2013 at 1:31 pm
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          • December 26, 2013 at 12:37 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Dave, did you catch any of that 60 minute interview with the now infamous Susan Rice. She is in the same mold as Hillary. They can’t be bothered with phony scandals and what possible difference does it make anyway? Her list of lies are right up there with the Commander in Chief.

    • December 24, 2013 at 1:38 pm
      LiveFree says:
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      The fact that you think we have a free market healthcare/insurance industry is laughable.

      • December 27, 2013 at 5:06 pm
        Agent says:
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        What do you mean LiveFree? Companies are “free” to write insurance as long as they faithfully follow the edicts of this so called law and apply all the taxes, fees and extra charges it dictates to them. Of course, they are not free to write the Catastrophic Plans or plans people liked before cancellations since those plans were dumped when this law came into force.

  • December 19, 2013 at 11:24 am
    FFA says:
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    Well, the 800 number strikes again. Went through all the right hoops with this gal. She calls the 800 number, they don’t bother checking Doctors which was the first thing I did and they signed her up on the Blue Choice network.
    FFA don’t get the sale, she gets a $300 bill from her current docs to change records. and, when I was on the phone this AM explaining why I didn’t quote the Blue Choice, she broke out in tears.
    Way to improve her quality of life OfnBama!
    Way to go Ofnbama unprofessional Non Back round checked min wage earners pin heads. Way not to care about anyone other then your own ego!
    Way to further ruin the Dems up for elections chances!
    We agents are not to be trusted to do the right thing by our clients???
    So all you Ofnbama supporters, go ahead and blame it on Bush or the client…

    Everybody on this planet would be a better option then this guy. even his own teen age daughters would have more common sense then this guy does.

    • December 19, 2013 at 11:57 am
      Agent says:
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      FFA, he did hire Podesta from the Center of American Progress to clean up Obamacare. It only took two days for him to get into trouble by calling Republicans a cult and compared them to the Jim Jones cult who told his followers to swallow poison Kool Aid and committed mass suicide. Hmm! He is a swell guy and I am sure Obama loves his counsel on how to govern.

  • December 19, 2013 at 12:07 pm
    FFA says:
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    Its just a matter of time before everyone gets kicked right in the crotch by …

    Gadfly, your turn is coming as these are real life stories. This is what is happening on Main St USA.

    • December 19, 2013 at 12:59 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hey FFA, You knew that Obama has been trying to ramp up support with the Millenial bunch, didn’t you? He has put out a new ad designed to win their support. It showed a young dude sitting around in his jammies drinking hot cocoa and thinking about signing up. Of course, this is one of those failure to launch dudes who are living at home with Mom with all the benefits, no job or job prospects and what he is thinking of is how much free stuff he can get.

      • December 19, 2013 at 1:13 pm
        FFA says:
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        Real world Main St USA, I have heard more then once that its cheaper to take the Tax and then sign up should something happen.

        Should something catastrophic happen, they will just claim Bankruptcy.

    • December 26, 2013 at 4:23 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, you may have run across a few stories in recent months about the demise of the State Pools due to the implementation of Obamacare. The Pools were on the chopping block and supposedly no longer needed. The idea was that PreX people who are in the current State Run Pools would be able to go right in and get coverage since there are no pre-existing conditions denials. We both know that enrollment is not going well and many Pool insureds have not been able to secure coverage, certainly not before 1-1-14.

      The State of Texas Insurance Commissioner signed an order to extend existing Pool coverage to 3-31-14 to avoid the hardship of individuals with chronic conditions as well as significant out of pocket expenses to pay for the needed treatment directly. The state is just putting off the pain for a few months. Perhaps the website will be working by then. These are the people we will be picking up the tab for because the young and healthy are not going to sign up. It is called Adverse Selection Ron, if you want to go on your website and verify.

  • December 19, 2013 at 1:16 pm
    FFA says:
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    The Sign Language guy would be a better option….

    His buddy Levine would be a better option. Curley Joe is a better option. Shemp, Abbott & Costello….

    I HATE LIARS! This guy is the worst kind. He has been busted and continues to lie… I’snt that against the Muslim Faith??

    • December 19, 2013 at 1:40 pm
      Agent says:
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      Funny FFA. Some say this President is an Abbott & Costello skit. The most famous was “Who’s on First”? The President plays Abbott and the people play Costello. He does keep us guessing, right?

      Regarding the Muslim Faith, when have their leaders been honest with the US about their intentions, support of Terrorism etc? In my view, they are the most devious religion in the world and think it is a badge of honor to deceive all infidels. They also like to kill all infidels. They only like us when we cut them a check for their oil on a regular basis. They will stab us in the back in a heart beat.

      • December 19, 2013 at 5:48 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hey FFA & Sargeant, I don’t know if you get the daily Property Casualty 360 news email, but I just saw a story of interest. You know that there were 2 winners in the Mega Lottery, one from Atlanta, one from California. It seems a lady in Atlanta worked as a VP of a broker called Aspen Insurance won half this lottery. Her boss confirmed it and said she is still a full time employee. Her name is Ira Curry. Why do I think she will have her cardboard box in her hand by tomorrow picking up her personal belongings? With her $175 million net after taxes, I think she can get by for a while. Sayonara boss, here are the files I am working on. You take care of it from now on. I am out of here.

        • December 19, 2013 at 5:59 pm
          FFA says:
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          No, I don’t get that. But, good for her!!! I’ld see what I could do to get the money out of the country before Ofnbama has a chance to touch it that fn liar…

          • December 20, 2013 at 10:19 am
            Agent says:
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            Well, they say that Bermuda is nice this time of year and the Caymans also look good. She had better get her money out of the country quick before it can be absconded with. The total is supposed to be after taxes, but liberals will think she is a 1%er and try to get more. Of course California will take their extra 13% bite over and above the Feds.

        • December 19, 2013 at 9:33 pm
          Sargeant Major says:
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          Yes, I heard. Good for Her but get the check first, then exit stage right. I also saw what the person in California will pay in taxes versus the person in Georgia. They also had an example for Texas and Florida (No state Tax in either) The guy in Caifornia had his pocket picked compared to the others.

          • December 20, 2013 at 10:44 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 20, 2013 at 12:36 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, I seem to remember a post you made that you would move to Texas for your work if your employer moved. Now, you say you couldn’t be paid to move here. I assume you will now just join the unemployment lines rather than move to either Florida or Texas. You are really a contradiction as usual.

          • December 20, 2013 at 4:01 pm
            Libby says:
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    • December 23, 2013 at 2:59 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, even Rain Man (played by Dustin Hoffman)would have been better. He at least knew numbers, what worked and what didn’t.

  • December 19, 2013 at 1:40 pm
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    • December 19, 2013 at 2:28 pm
      Agent says:
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      Actually idk, Medicaid is growing faster since people are being put into that about 70% of the time with the exchanges. 6 million are losing their insurance. Could you or any of your liberal friends imagine you will like Medicaid better than the private plan you have now? Perhaps your imagination doesn’t go that far and you should keep sipping that Kool Aid or Hot Chocolate like the Millenials are supposed to do.

  • December 19, 2013 at 1:43 pm
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    • December 19, 2013 at 2:09 pm
      FFA says:
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      Give it time IDK, its going to kick you square in the pants.
      Ask 10 women of they would change their lady parts docs to save a few buck on their insurance. Wait till you and you spouse have to pay record transfer fees because the jack asses on the 800 number are too stupid to make sure.

      When you do your homework on how this is working, then your opinion may be worth something.

      Fact – OBAMA IS A LIAR. FACT – PEOPLE CANT KEEP THEIR DOCS. FACT PREMUMS ARE GOING UP FOR MOST. FACT – MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING UNINSURED – its cheaper to pay the TAX. FACT OBAMA IS A LIAR. FACT – HIS PALS ARE IN JAIL. Opinion – he belongs there too for treason.

    • December 19, 2013 at 2:37 pm
      FFA says:
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      Man IDK, Your just living in a dream world. All will have insurance…
      None will have their trusted Doctors if they keep using the dumb asses on the 800 number and the web site. . All will have an increase on their tax bill. All that use the 800 number and the web site will be paying to change doctors.

      • December 19, 2013 at 4:18 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, I just heard an interview Stuart Varney of Fox did with Dr. Ben Carson, the famous Neurosurgeon. Dr. Carson is a brilliant guy. He just retired from John Hopkins after a decorated career. He is living proof that someone born in very poor circumstances in Detroit can rise above it and succeed.

        He is now traveling the country, meeting people, making speeches and weighing whether to run. I hope he does. He can run circles around the leftist opposition and speaks so well, yes without teleprompters. His statement to Varney was that he has met with many, many doctors and he cannot find one that likes Obamacare. They entered the Practice of Medicine to help people, not become government employees.

        • December 19, 2013 at 9:26 pm
          Sargeant Major says:
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          Agent, FFA

          Ben Carson is a great guy and yes proof that you can come up in poor circumstance and end up having a great life by working hard, doing what is right, listening to the right people and— work even harder. I personally know a lot of Detroiters like that

          • December 20, 2013 at 12:32 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Sargeant, has Detroit given the keys to the city to Dr. Ben yet for being a great native son that made it? I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t since the Progressive mob is still in office.

    • December 19, 2013 at 5:41 pm
      FFA says:
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      IDK Says “Hospital charges are high to cover all the uninsured costs they incur. ACA will help this issue in a couple of way”

      Govt took the first line of defense of Fraud out of the equation when they said agents cant see the EOB. We could get them on our desk and review them with the insured back in the 80′s and question the charges. Make sure they are all legit. Now – not.

      idk, you really don’t have a clue.

      • December 19, 2013 at 5:52 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, if you were a decent hacker, you could see everything in the file from Social to Income, bank records etc. It won’t be a secret for long with no site security.

        • December 20, 2013 at 3:00 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, if the hackers can get into Target’s computer on 40 million shoppers, they will have a field day with Healthcare.gov.

      • December 26, 2013 at 12:31 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, did you see the article that our Commander in Chief applied for the Bronze Plan as a token of support for the law? It is a fake application, because no personal info was given. His staff did it for him. He doesn’t really want the hackers to find out his true identity or there would be real trouble with the fake Connecticut Social he has been using. I wonder if they used Sotero or Obama when they inputted it.

    • December 24, 2013 at 1:41 pm
      LiveFree says:
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      And how exactly do costs increase for hospitals just because they are uninsured?

      If you had any real knowledge of how hospitals operate you would know that is just wrong. In fact a lot of doctors have practices only accepting the uninsured and charge much lower prices.

  • December 19, 2013 at 4:21 pm
    FFA says:
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    GOOD. Now, what is it going to take for congress to move on getting this liar out of a position to do further damage to the average Joe American?

    • December 19, 2013 at 4:35 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, I think it will take an approval rating of somewhere in the mid thirties to start proceedings. That may be not too far off since it is 43% now and falling. Let a couple million go to the doctor in January and find out they don’t have insurance and the S*&^will hit he fan. Trey Gowdy may be the first to bring charges. It won’t be Boner since he is a weak leader. Hey, they could do what Toronto did with their crack smoking mayor. They stripped him of his duties and now all he does is go to meetings and dance with the council.

      • December 19, 2013 at 4:52 pm
        FFA says:
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        I have an idea for his replacement- DA COACH! He will tell it like it is weather we want to hear it or not.

        Hall of Famer. Super Bowl Coach. Successful business man.

        DITKA FOR PRES!!!

        • December 19, 2013 at 5:24 pm
          Agent says:
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          I always liked Ditka. George Halas was lucky to have him for a number of pro bowl years and Dallas was lucky to have him for the last few years of his career. He was also a very good coach and got a Superbowl ring for Chicago. Boy was that team awesome. The defense just shut everyone down and Walter Payton (sweetness)was a terrific back.
          Ditka wouldn’t have to try too hard to be a better President than the current one. He is all business, common sense and would hire good people to carry out policy, something that is sorely lacking now. He is also not agenda driven and would do the right thing for the people. I have noticed he will look a man in the eye and tell them the truth. I like that quality.

        • December 19, 2013 at 9:27 pm
          Sargeant Major says:
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          I’ll vote for him. I want to see what happens when he headbutts Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid!!!

          • December 20, 2013 at 12:28 pm
            Agent says:
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            Sargeant, if Ditka head butted Pelosi, he would knock her face right off since it is a Botox mask anyway. With Reid, he would go right through the wall since he may be 120 lbs soaking wet. Ditka would receive an unnecessary roughness penalty.

        • December 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, I just found out that Tony Romo underwent surgery to repair a herniated disk in his back. Guess who the back up is. Kyle Orton has been the clip board holder all season. I am sure he will tear up the Eagles Sunday when they come to town. Perhaps Jones wants to get the Eagles overconfident so they can spring an upset. The back up to the back up is the newly re-signed 41 year old Jon Kitna who had retired and was teaching and coaching High School in Washington state. At least he knows the plays since he was a back up last year. So long Cowgirls, you have played like an 8-8 team and that is where you will finish.

          • December 30, 2013 at 12:46 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Sargeant & FFA. The season is now officially over for the Bears, Detroit and my Cowboys. I thought the Bears were going to pull it out on the Packers for a long time until they let a receiver run free right at the end of the game. I haven’t seen a receiver that wide open in several years. The Cowboys played a decent game against Philly, but the porous defense once again manifested plus they had a few mistakes like fumbles and interceptions that got in the way. That is what losing teams do in crunch time. Oh well, perhaps Jones will fire himself in the off season and hire a football man to run the draft and signings. Orton did play a good game.

      • December 27, 2013 at 12:34 pm
        Agent says:
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        So FFA, I posted the above comment on 12-19-13 on the 43%. Here we are on 12-27-13 and it has already fallen to 39% approval. It will be interesting what happens when the s%$# hits the fan in January, won’t it?

        • December 27, 2013 at 3:44 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hey FFA, to add insult to injury, the new story posted through Town Hall and the NY Post details the coming Obamacare tax bill. Most insurers aren’t advertising the Obamacare Taxes, but one company, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Alabama laid bare the taxes on its bills with a separate line item for Affordable Care Act Fees and Taxes.

          The new taxes and fees include a 2% levy on every health plan which is expected to net $8 Billion in 2014 and increase to $14 Billion by 2018. There is a $2 per policy going to a Medical Research trust fund???? Insurers pay a 3.5% user fee to sell medical plans on the dysfunctional Healthcare.gov site

          Some hidden costs are the 2.3% Medical Devices tax that will inflate the cost of items such as stents, pacemakers,prosthetic limbs etc. Add the smaller deduction for those with high out of pocket expenses. Americans are currently allowed to deduct expenses that exceed 7.5% of their income. The threshold jumps to 10% next year. Then, there is the new Medicare tax. Individual tax filers earning more than $200,000 or families earning more than $250,000 will pay an additional 0.9% Medicare surtax on top of the existing 1.45% Medicare payroll tax. They will also pay an extra 3.8% Medicare Tax if they have investment income from dividends or rental income and capital gains. Those Dems sure are creative in finding new ways to tax the American people, aren’t they? That is why they are Progressives so they can try to get more blood out of the turnip.

  • December 19, 2013 at 5:46 pm
    FFA says:
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    After all said and done – not a bad day. Three P & C Apps in. Booked a renewal.
    Still feel real bad for the gal that Ofnbama min wage 800# pin head screwed out of her doctor. Gonna go home tonight remembering her crying. The guy just don’t care about quality of life.
    Main St America getting weaker every day this ass hole is in office.
    Calls coming in from my WI pals asking for help now.

    • December 19, 2013 at 5:57 pm
      Agent says:
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      I feel for you FFA and I know you have a good heart or you wouldn’t feel bad for the lady. I get mostly outrage from people down here on what is going on. Remember Earline, the one they fired for talking to Hannity? She was actually nice and polite and they cut her loose in a NY minute.

      By the way, the A&E TV network is not for long. They cut that Duck Dynasty guy loose for expressing his opinion on gay marriage and the gays got him fired. That is about the only program worth anything on that network so they will look like MSNBC shortly on ratings. I hope the show goes to Fox and it will do well since they have a following.

      • December 19, 2013 at 6:11 pm
        FFA says:
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        Outrage is turning to heart break up here. Feel bad when people realize what this liar did to them. People think I am out for my commis. Well I am as ofnbama screwed me out of Health Commis over the past few years with his liar way of being. Most important to me is to make sure people don’t get screwed by this ass hole. Fn Quinn screwed me out of Comp Commis with his Obama care version of workers comp.
        I wrote almost $700ooo in New Biz premium with my regional this year. Imagine not losing the business I did because of the f’n dummerthencraps sticking their nose into my biz. I lost about $600000 in volume because of them two ass holes. I would have two more people off the unemployment line if the f’n democrats would stay the hell out of my biz. They cant even manage their side of things and they want to tell us how to manage ours.

        • December 20, 2013 at 10:31 am
          Agent says:
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          FFA, I feel for you up there trying to do business in that environment. It is bad enough that the market is getting hard and companies are picking business to death to try to write something, but you dealing with the government bureaucracy in an unfriendly to business state has to jangle the nerves. No wonder you are considering Wisconsin to relocate. Hang in there buddy.

          • December 20, 2013 at 11:13 am
            FFA says:
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            Things not looking any better. Many jobs leaving the state for good reasons.

        • December 20, 2013 at 11:15 am
          Agent says:
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          So FFA, what do you think about the latest moving the goal posts by Obama/Sebelius? Man, those goal posts are getting close to the top of the stands don’t you think? The latest rule change announced last night will let any consumer whose current plan is being cancelled claim a “hardship exemption” and buy a bare bones “catastrophic plan” if standard health plans sold through the Federal and State Exchanges are more expensive than their previous plan. Our wonderful Sebelius said the goal was to ensure the “smoothest possible transition” for people seeking new coverage after cancellation of their policies.

          Karen Ignagni, president of America’s Health Insurance Plans said the latest rule change could cause significant instability in the marketplace and lead to further confusion and disruption for consumers. Do you think? I am sure the carriers heads are spinning. Now, they have to come up with a Catastrophic Plan with a week left in the year and field thousands of calls from consumers on what they can get. I think that extra 500 Blue Cross hired to field phone calls will be inadequate, don’t you?

          • December 20, 2013 at 11:50 am
            FFA says:
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            Man o man…. I have not seen that yet. Yet another “I am oBama so I can do what ever fits my mood and just blame it on someone else” thing.

            What other aspect of life can the rules change mid stream??? How about in sport the refs / umps make up a new rule in the middle of the game?

          • December 20, 2013 at 12:24 pm
            Agent says:
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            Well FFA, my interpretation on this is “all politics all the time”. As you recall, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, the recipient of the Louisiana Purchase for her vote introduced a bill in the Senate for consumers to keep what they had. She is in big trouble for re-election. With 6 million getting cancelled 1-1, they thought they had to do something or face the hangman’s noose in the mid terms. I think it is interesting that they are in the process of repealing this law by changing it so drastically that it will not have any funding if people buy something other than their vaunted coverage. Do you think you can get some quotes on this Catastrophic Protection through Blue Cross or any other carrier in time to prevent a lapse?

          • December 20, 2013 at 1:06 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, go on Foxnews.com and there is a good synopsis of the Christmas Surprise.

          • December 26, 2013 at 2:38 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA said – what other aspect of life can the rules change mid stream? This is what happens with a Progressive Socialist leader in charge whose program for the country is in shambles. He keeps drip, drip, dripping bad news out just about every week on this disaster.

            By the way, the way the NFL referees keep calling games, one might get the impression that they are changing some rules as they go along. The worst calls are the pass interference penalties. Receivers and defenders both have their hands all over each other all the way down the field. 90% of the time, the call is against the defender when the receiver is equally guilty with push offs etc. It has affected games. Maybe they will start playing flag football soon. They sure aren’t playing real football anymore.

    • December 27, 2013 at 4:18 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, Slick Willie used to be fond of biting his lip and saying “I feel your pain”. He didn’t of course, but our current President has no feelings at all for the suffering he is causing in this country. It is all agenda all the time and to hell with the folks. A true American President who cared for his country would not be doing this radical agenda that is so wrong on so many levels. It is time for him to exit stage right, don’t you agree. Perhaps in January, there will be some brave souls in the House to start proceedings.

  • December 20, 2013 at 10:30 am
    Experienced says:
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    After the excitement and thrill is gone, how many of these young insureds are going to continue paying when Apple comes out with a new phone that they have to own. Many will sign up, few will remain.

    • December 20, 2013 at 11:39 am
      Agent says:
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      The bloom is off the rose already for the young Millenials Experienced. They have gone on their computers, saw what was available and the cost and collectively said – WHAT? Why should I pay this much for insurance? I don’t even have a job. Give me a break.

  • December 23, 2013 at 8:43 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Libby said- “Yeah, but he gets to live in California! You couldn’t pay me to live in either Florida or Texas. Or Detroit.”

    I am not surprised coming from someone who lives in nowwhereville, PA. The place without national cable news, sound for their computers and a good influx of KKK websites.
    They don’t want you either.

    • December 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hey Sargeant, did you see the new CNN poll with registered voters?

      Two months ago, the Democrats had a 50%-42% lead with registered voters. One month ago, it had suddenly shifted to 49%-47% for Republicans. Currently, it is 49%-44% for Republicans. What could have caused this dramatic shift since the President said he had the site fixed and expected to reverse his fortunes. Even by Ron’s math, that is a 13% change in two months. Why the rejection of the ideas of the left? Could it be that something smells to high heaven and the people have had smelling salts put under their nose? No wonder Democrats are nervous about their political career. I wonder what the poll will reveal in January after 6 million find out they have no insurance.

      • December 26, 2013 at 4:17 pm
        Ron says:
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        • December 27, 2013 at 10:22 am
          Agent says:
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          Hey Ron, a reduction of 6 points for Democrats and an increase of 7 points for Republicans is a 13% swing if you need some help on your math which you apparently flunked. I could care less about approval ratings of Congress and that will work out in the mid terms. The liberal Democrats are in panic mode now and are seeking ways to distance themselves from Obama, but he is like a noose around their neck. Did you happen to notice that Obama’s approval rating is now at 39%? He is in free fall ever since he said the site had been fixed. I hope he is enjoying his golf vacation. By the time he gets back, he may be around 35%.

          • December 27, 2013 at 3:56 pm
            Ron says:
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    • December 27, 2013 at 4:49 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hey Sargeant, I have news for Libby. She shouldn’t want to live in California either. Her paycheck would be lighter by 13.3% on the state income tax. This is not counting the property taxes, county, city, sales. Several cities have taken bankruptcy or are near bankruptcy due to city employee benefits/pension problems, much like Detroit is going through right now. California takes dysfunction to a new level. On the other hand, Florida & Texas are solvent and have no state income tax. How do we do that? How do we attract new businesses all the time? Tax Abatements may be part of it.

  • December 23, 2013 at 8:53 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Agent,

    The Detroit pensioners are in trouble. They will get something but not what they retired on. Far from it. It seems 40 plus years of blind loyalty to Detroit’s Democratic crooks left the cabinets empty. They have been vocal and sued the state but the liberal press has not had much to say. Since it is another Democrat screw up what would they say? Its George Bush’s fault and there was no WMDs when we rolled into Iraq? LOL
    I am serious, the Federal government is doing the same thing that Detroit did debt wise. They borrowed from the pension plans and issued IOU;s (Debt) to cover the under-funding and either stole the money or spent it running the city. Then they would borrow more and more The Fed is doing the same thing, issuing debt and taking money out of Social Security and Medicare and I suppose anywhere else they can squeeze the turnip. Sooner or late the cabinet will be empty and there goes the neighborhood, not to mention entitlements etc

    • December 27, 2013 at 4:12 pm
      Agent says:
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      Ron, when you change to being a Conservative and agreeing with our positions instead of putting a slant on everything I post and trying to show something different, then I will respect you. Until then, you are just an agitator who has a bad habit of agreeing and then disagreeing. So you don’t like the poll numbers, big deal. I don’t like the info you post on your bogus websites either. I guess it galls you that Obama has fallen so dramatically in the polls in just two months. Wait until January rolls around. That might just trigger the Articles of Impeachment we are hoping for.

      • December 30, 2013 at 2:10 pm
        Ron says:
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        • December 30, 2013 at 4:00 pm
          Agent says:
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          You prove my point Ron. You don’t have a Conservative bone in your body. If I make a Conservative point or a criticism of the President, you quickly go to a website that gives the Progressive talking points or is totally bogus in the numbers they put out. You cite an article by Krugman, who is a noted leftist Economist and current NYT columnist who spews the Progressive agenda. You said you respected my beliefs and agreed on more topics than disagree. I have yet to see you agree with me without then harping on why Conservative Republicans are at fault for not changing things. You say you don’t care about Obama’s poll numbers (I use better language than you did). Apparently, you are disregarding what registered voters think about his agenda and what it is doing to this country.

          If you don’t think Obama deserves being Impeached, you are in sad shape mentally. Your life will be changed in 2014 and more than likely for the worse. Jimmy Carter’s one term tenure was bad for the country and the economy. He was mostly incompetent, but he didn’t have a raging agenda which has done so much harm in such a short time. To borrow your own term, it is too bad you are too closed minded to see that.

          • December 31, 2013 at 9:16 am
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    • December 31, 2013 at 12:36 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hey Sargeant, are you familiar with a car dealership in Jackson, Mi called Extreme Dodge? They were voted one of the best dealerships in the state. There is a story on Political Outcast about what they are going through on their Health Insurance. They have decided to give their employees $2,400 to buy their own Health Insurance on the exchanges or the employees can opt for the renewal dealership plan. If they do that, deductibles will escalate, maximum out of pocket will go way up and the premiums are much higher. Many of the employees don’t know how they are going to make it next year. Thank you Obama for doing in the small businessman and employees. We know how the quoted premiums are going on the Individual plans. Good luck covering yourself and family on $200 per month.

  • December 23, 2013 at 10:04 pm
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    • December 24, 2013 at 1:56 pm
      LiveFree says:
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      “unless you consider the full faith and credit of the US just an IOU – which, come to think of it, the GOP has made a good effort toward making it just that when they threatened to default this year.”

      I do consider that just an IOU, or at least something comparable. The government still has massive debts and the income stream to SS isn’t enough to keep the program sustainable. It (gov’t) will either default eventually or finance it’s own debt by printing enough money to pay back creditors with money that is now useless compared to when it was originally lent.

      • December 24, 2013 at 5:11 pm
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        • December 26, 2013 at 10:05 am
          LiveFree says:
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          I agree that will be the least of my worries but my biggest worry is the default on our debt, which isn’t being helped by a deficit program like S.S.

          The stunt the GOP pulled was nothing but a party politics show because everyone should know the Government will not even reduce the pace of debt growth and neither Dems or Repubs really want to reduce debt. That stunt isn’t the problem the problem is that all debts will need to be paid someday. We are screwed.

          • December 26, 2013 at 8:20 pm
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    • December 31, 2013 at 9:53 am
      Agent says:
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      Ron, you are quite correct that I am a Conservative from head to toe and I am totally against the Progressive Socialism agenda which the President espouses every day of the week. There is no grey area for debate. Apparently, that does not bother you in the least and think he stacks up with the Presidents of the past since they apparently lied as much has he has. How sad for you! 61% of the American People are in agreement with me about his competence to hold office and you are still with the 39% who somehow try to justify his actions. Just his serial lying on Obamacare is enough to Impeach him since it affects so many million people.

      I am not going to continue the list of items of this Presidents agenda that have been cited over and over on this forum by myself, Sargeant, FFA, Dave, Jack, LiveFree, Bob, Experienced. We can’t help it if you don’t watch the news or prefer to get your info from bogus government sites, quote articles from noted leftists like Krugman. Ron, you are going to the wrong places for your information and the only conclusion the rest of us have of you is that you must agree with them or you wouldn’t keep citing them.

      • December 31, 2013 at 11:19 am
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        • December 31, 2013 at 12:26 pm
          Agent says:
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          I hate to upset your apple cart Ron, but only Tricky Dicky has had a lower approval rating than Obama in the past 50 years and he was in the midst of Watergate and lying about it. Impeachment was about to be brought when he decided to resign. Serial lying by a President is one of the worst offenses they can do, especially when so many in the country are affected. Obama is the worst of the lot by a large margin. If you want to believe a confirmed leftist like Krugman, that is your business and it shows your true colors.

          • December 31, 2013 at 12:41 pm
            Ron says:
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        • January 6, 2014 at 5:12 pm
          Agent says:
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          Ron, your wonderful Gallup poll failed to mention that Carter was the only one of the modern Presidents who had a decline in approval by 9 points from 06 to 10. Who knows who was polled on this, but anyone with half a brain and lived through Carter would not poll anything close to a 50% approval on job performance no matter when it was done. If you are in love with Krugman and his conclusions, you are a Socialist big time. Keep sticking with your leftists metrics Ron. It is very revealing to your character and your father in law was correct.

          • January 6, 2014 at 6:05 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, you won’t get any credit from me for saying you believe in Friedman and Krugman. They are diametrically opposed in how they view Economics. That is like Libby saying she is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Either you are a Conservative or a Liberal. You can’t have it both ways. Oil & Water do not mix.

          • January 6, 2014 at 8:23 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I never said that I believe in Krugman in totality. I have yet to study any economist with whom I totally agree. However, Friedman would be the closest. That is why I am so upset with the Republicans. They are supposed to be strict followers of Friedman, yet incorporate too many Keynesian principles for my taste. They talk a good fiscal conservative game when they are in the majority, then spend us into further deficits when they are in power. That is why they do not stay in power very long.

            However, they are about to get another opportunity in the upcoming mid-terms. Let’s see if they keep their word this time.

            This country has been very successful throughout our history by having a balance between free market and governmental influence on the economy. You have praised President Reagan for using government policies to get us out of the recession left by Carter.

            There are many people who do not identify as Conservative or Liberal. We are called independents and have a far greater influence on elections because we do not just vote a party line.

            Do you want me to be a Progressive Socialist? It will never happen, but you seem hell bent on trying to make the case, unsuccessfully.

            Please be more specific which leftist metrics I have provided and provide your own Conservative metrics. Never mind, Conservative metrics is an oxymoron.

  • December 23, 2013 at 10:37 pm
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    • December 26, 2013 at 8:23 pm
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      • December 27, 2013 at 8:54 am
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    • January 2, 2014 at 4:02 pm
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      Ron, I agree with you that ex President’s approval ratings tend to climb over time. Bush has a higher rating than the current President even though he was reviled while in office. Carter is breathing a sigh of relief because he was widely believed to be the worst President of the past 50 years or longer. You cited that Carter’s approval ratings are now over 50% now, but failed to say what Ronnie’s ratings are now. Is that because he is dead, or did it not fit your narrative? You said Obama may go lower than 35%, but hasn’t yet. Stay tuned Ron, see what it is by the end of this month after millions have found out they don’t have insurance.

      • January 3, 2014 at 9:33 am
        Ron says:
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        • January 3, 2014 at 10:37 am
          Agent says:
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          Ron, Carter was the worst President on record up until being replaced by the current President. By the way, the media is notably left wing and make hero’s out of Democratic Presidents and openly castigate Republican Presidents. This has been going on for a long time Ron and is a joke. Clinton has been disbarred, Impeached but not removed and yet he is somehow a great statesman now. The only time he didn’t lie about something was when he didn’t speak. I must admit that Obama must have gone to the Bill Clinton School of lying, because he is even better at it.

          • January 3, 2014 at 11:16 am
            Ron says:
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  • January 3, 2014 at 6:04 pm
    Agent says:
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    Ron, I don’t need to provide any metrics to your ilk. I lived through Carter, saw his idiocy, telling us to turn our thermostats down and wear a sweater as our energy policy, long lines at the gas pump, saw his polices generate 20%+ interest rates, a stagnating no growth economy, letting the military go until they had to scavenge parts to get airplanes to fly, low morale in the military. I was a young producer at the time and it was tough out there with a hard market and it was discouraging. I am sure you will try to pull up a website to disprove this, but there is nothing like trying to live through it and believe me, that was reality.

    • January 6, 2014 at 8:49 am
      Ron says:
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  • January 6, 2014 at 10:43 am
    Agent says:
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    So Ron, now you are an apologist for Carter. You like to blame former President’s for what happened during his one term. There is a very good reason why he was a one termer. He had no plan to recover the economy whatsoever. Reagan inherited a very poor economy and rolled up his sleeves and did a great job. By the way, Reagan was forced to increase military spending because of how it had been let go under Carter. People widely criticized him for the Star Wars defense system he intended to employ, but it got Gorbachev’s attention and they realized they couldn’t compete so the Iron Curtain came down and we won the Cold War. As a side note, IRA’s & 401K’s came about as one of the economic policies and were instrumental in increasing saving and investment in America. Did Carter propose that? Did Carter do anything? Quit defending the imbecile peanut farmer. All he did was take in oxygen and give off carbon dioxide for 4 long years.

    • January 6, 2014 at 11:15 am
      Ron says:
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      • January 6, 2014 at 12:13 pm
        Agent says:
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        I have a correction to your twisted ideas Ron. Obviously, you haven’t studied your history much or your websites were in error. You say Carter increased military spending by a higher percentage than Reagan in each of their first terms. If you knew anything about Presidential history, you would know that the country had enough of Carter after one term. I think it was a substantial landslide for Reagan in that election. By the way, your website cited has little I agree with. I think Reaganomics was good for the country and did succeed in recovering the economy even though it took a while to get rid of Carteromics, run away inflation, economic malaise. Many of the things going on with Carter are much in evidence today in this country. Obama is actually much worse since he wants to redistribute the wealth and make everyone equally poor. Use your brain (if you have one) instead of a website.

        • January 6, 2014 at 12:31 pm
          Ron says:
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          • January 6, 2014 at 3:32 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, since I lived in both the Carter era and the Reagan era and apparently you didn’t, you have no idea how bad Carter was as a President and how big a mess he left Reagan. That was one deep hole to dig out of. Not as big as the hole we have now, but deep nonetheless. Did you also know that Tip O’Neil (D-Mass) welched on the deal he made with Ronny to hold spending down? Yes, spending did increase some because the military had to be rebuilt after years of neglect. Government did grow some naturally as it has for 50 years. A weak economy means less tax revenue so there were some deficits. Congress would not grant a line item veto as requested and as has been the case for every President. I am not sure the big spenders like Obama and others really would want it since they like to spend, Keynsian style. Tell me something Metric Ron. Do you believe the government increases revenue when they raise taxes? All the data I have ever seen is that it decreases revenue and kills jobs. We are now in a job killing market with higher taxes, redistribution of wealth schemes with Obamacare being the biggest culprit. What would you do to recover the economy, raise taxes or decrease taxes and regulation?

  • January 6, 2014 at 3:53 pm
    FFA says:
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    You two are on a roll today.

    • January 6, 2014 at 4:52 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hi FFA. I trust you were able to navigate back home without much trouble. How did you like that Green Bay/SF game? 0 temperature and minus 15 wind chill. I thought SF handled the conditions better than I thought they would. That QB Kapernic is a deer isn’t he? He was the difference with his running ability. They deserved to win because they outplayed GB even though Rodgers is good and made it close. I don’t know how any football team can play in those extreme conditions.

      • January 7, 2014 at 11:36 am
        FFA says:
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        They were all good games over the week end. I thought the GB / San Fran game was the best of the bunch. Kapernic is very good. Compliment him with Frank Gore and Boldin, you have a hard job stopping them. Crabtree stepped up. In the end, a lack of a defense cost Green Bay.

        • January 7, 2014 at 11:53 am
          Agent says:
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          I agree FFA. What are those guys trying to prove running around out there with bare arms in that kind of weather? That takes macho to the extreme. That National Title game was good as well. I thought Auburn had Fl State, but the defense couldn’t hold when it counted most. My most enjoyable bowl game was the Sugar Bowl where my alma mater beat Saben and the Tide. Stoops outcoached him and the team outplayed them.

        • January 13, 2014 at 11:30 am
          Agent says:
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          Well, Kapernic showed how good he was against Carolina on the road too. In the battle of young mobile quarterbacks, he was clearly the one with more poise and able to make plays. It should be quite a battle with Seattle next weekend. Hard to win in Seattle and the two teams have split their two games so far. I have a feeling that SF will do it and get to the Superbowl. If they can shut down that animal running back of the Seahawks, they will win.

  • January 6, 2014 at 4:11 pm
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    • January 6, 2014 at 7:39 pm
      Dave says:
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      Read David Stockman’s book, the Triumph of Politics. He explains how the Democrats refused to cut spending. Look at history and any Republican effort to permanently fix Medicare and Social Security. Bush tried. Paul Ryan tried. And the Democrats respond with a childish ad showing a Paul Ryan look-a-like pushing granny off the cliff. Expecting any Democratic effort at at fiscal responsibility is like praying for pigs to fly.

      And Clinton’s surpluses?

      1) They were fake surpluses as surpluses in the Social Security fund which were needed to fund future payouts were spent on other things which leaves Social Security with around $40 trillion in unfunded liabilities, and
      2) The surpluses were in large part funded by the dot-com bubble a fake and temporary increase in wealth.

      I give Clinton very little credit.

      • January 7, 2014 at 10:01 am
        Agent says:
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        I agree Dave. Democrats think Clinton was wonderful and restored the economy. My memory of that time is that Newt Gingrich and the House had to shut the government down on Clinton to reach a budget deal to balance the budget since they made the Contract with America pledge to do so. He was pragmatist enough to finally agree to it and then made a speech on ending welfare as we knew it. It is too bad that Republicans did not stick to their guns in subsequent years. However, we did not anticipate that wild eyed Muslims would attack this country and we would have to ramp up a defense on the War on Terror. Things have pretty much been out of control ever since.

    • January 7, 2014 at 10:08 am
      Agent says:
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      Beautiful Ron. I asked you to think for yourself and you come back with two more websites. Perhaps you should ask your father in law how it was living under the Carter regime. Do you ask him to provide proof or do you not talk at all? How does he feel about living under a Progressive Socialist government which is rapidly destroying the country we grew up in? I noticed in a prior post that you said Obama is not a dictator. Hello? Governing by Executive Fiat is considered dictating to the people. Changing a law passed by Congress several times unilaterally is dictating in my mind.

      • January 7, 2014 at 12:44 pm
        Ron says:
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        • January 7, 2014 at 2:21 pm
          Agent says:
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          Ron, I think you have Executive fiat rule confused with line item vetos. Why has every President pleaded with Congress for line item veto at every State of the Union speech if he really has that authority? I don’t think they have the authority to cut out items on a spending bill that they don’t like. Executive Orders are quite a different story. They can order a department or agency to implement policy they want. It would be interesting if you have a metric on the types of Executive Orders that the prior Presidents have done and compare them to Obama’s Executive Orders. Which have been more harmful to the country?

  • January 7, 2014 at 11:35 am
    sl says:
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    • January 7, 2014 at 11:48 am
      Agent says:
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      sl, I can multi task with the best of them. Just this morning, renewed 2 Commercial accounts, 3 Personal Lines accounts, did some planning with my partners for 2014 on how to deal with rate increases and we approved a raise for our CSR’s. I still have time to hold up the Conservative banner against the leftists on this site.

  • January 7, 2014 at 5:37 pm
    Ron says:
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    • January 15, 2014 at 2:19 pm
      Agent says:
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      So Ron the confused. Today, the President/King announced in Raleigh, NC that in 2014, he would go around Congress to implement his program/agenda. If they don’t go along with him on his proposals, he will just use his pen to rule by Executive Fiat. Does that sound like a President of a Constitutional Republic? Those are fighting words and hopefully the Impeachment proceedings will begin soon.

  • January 7, 2014 at 6:06 pm
    Agent says:
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    Ron, you are a certifiable idiot if you think a President has the executive authority to line item veto any spending bill. Do you think their request each year is merely false rhetoric? If they had that authority, how come nothing is ever cut out if they object to it? Executive Orders are for other things, not line item vetos. Get it?



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