Supreme Court to Weigh Religious Exemption from Birth Control Mandate Next Week

By Greg Stohr | March 21, 2014

  • March 21, 2014 at 9:12 am
    ExciteBiker says:
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    ‘The Greens “object to being forced to facilitate abortion by providing abortifacients”‘

    Birth control simply is not an abortifacient. That argument is patently false. This entire debate makes me want to smash my head against a wall repeatedly while wondering what century we are living in. These people are stooges.

    • March 21, 2014 at 1:50 pm
      Former Status Quo says:
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      ExciteBiker,

      Go back and re-read the article. Their existing plan, ya know the one they had before ObamaCare, covered 16 of the 20 birth control options. The remaining four, such as Plan B, are what they object to.

      • March 21, 2014 at 2:05 pm
        Libby says:
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        Former,

        They can object all they want on a personal level, and as such, certainly should not use these forms of birth control. As a for-profit corporation, however, they can not object on behalf on their employees. They have no right.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:02 pm
          Former Status Quo says:
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          Enlighten me Libby. In your eyes, what are the rights of a company? What aren’t the rights?

          Would it be within Hobby Lobby’s rights if they changed their model and required all employees, regardless of their religion, to work on Sunday?

          As a Christian employee of Hobby Lobby, should I be forced to work on Sundays? Don’t I have my rights?

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:08 pm
            Libby says:
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            If it was the “law of the land” (couldn’t resist) that employers close up on Sunday (which is still true with some “blue laws” on the books) then no, the employer can not force an employee to work on Sunday.

            You are missing the point, entirely. Until the ACA mandated coverage be included it was most certainly up to the employer what, if any, coverage to include. But that changed with the passing of this law – right, wrong or indifferent.

            You don’t have to LIKE the law, but you have to follow it or bear the consequences. I don’t like to wear a seat belt or drive the speed limit, but I will get ticketed for doing either or both because that is the law.

            If you think the law is unfair to business, lobby to repeal or change it. Until then, don’t argue that some shouldn’t have to follow the law because it’s contrary to their religion. Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion. Especially in the workplace.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:24 pm
          Jared says:
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          Actually, they do have a right because they are the employer, it’s THEIR BUSINESS and they are the ones who are paying the bill for it!!! You obviously don’t own a business. As a business owner myself,I will not be FORCED to either provide something that violates my values, or be Fined per employee. IF the employee wants coverage I don’t offer, it’s their right to find another employer, not force me to give it to them. That’s why many employers are AT WILL.

          • March 25, 2014 at 8:22 am
            Libby says:
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            Gee, you sound like a peach of a boss. You and Agent ought to get together.

          • March 25, 2014 at 9:43 am
            Agent says:
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            You are right Jared. Libby is not a business owner. She is just a licensed CSR working for an agency, but she thinks she can preach to all the business owners and tell them that they don’t have any rights to run their business as they see fit.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:11 pm
            Libby says:
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            Go screw Agent. As far as the ACA goes, you don’t have any rights. It’s not me telling you that, it’s the law.

      • March 21, 2014 at 3:17 pm
        FFA says:
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        • March 21, 2014 at 3:29 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, we can keep what we liked until Obama saw fit to order us to follow his mandated nightmare. He has since unilaterally changed/delayed it 30 times. Why not make this 31 and let companies offer benefit packages that they decided on? The employees aren’t upset and they like their jobs too.

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:32 pm
            Libby says:
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            If he did that, Hobby Lobby could do whatever they wanted to do. Right now, they can’t.

          • March 22, 2014 at 4:45 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            In my case, my plan became stronger (same deductible and additional coverage at no additional costsO) and my premium DECREASED. And, I can never be denied for pre-x or run out of limits should I become gravely ill. So, for me at least, this is working. There are other success stories, too. The glass isn’t half empty. The sky isn’t falling. But, runaway greenhouse could be a reality we will be having to face by 2040. Now, that is actually frightening.

          • March 23, 2014 at 8:26 am
            Destro says:
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          • March 23, 2014 at 9:56 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            I like the people who are against everyone having access to healthcare in the USA. “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Pretty tough to have life if you don’t have healthcare. Pretty tough to have liberty if you don’t have the freedom to obtain healthcare. Pretty tough to pursue happiness when you are sick because you don’t have access to healthcare. What is the #1 cause of bankrupcty in this great nation of ours? Oh, that’s right, medical bills. I hope someday, I can ask, what WAS the #1 cause of bankruptcy in this great nation of ours and answer it with medical bills.

      • March 25, 2014 at 4:20 pm
        Connie says:
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        I believe you’re exactly right, Former – if I’m not mistaken, they are not objecting to ALL forms of birth control, but only those which are known as the “morning after” form, after conception has already taken place, because they sincerely feel according to their religious beliefs that this is terminating an existing human life. You obviously may not feel they can “force” their religious beliefs on you, but they obviously feel they should not be “compelled” to go against their beliefs either. It will be interesting to see where the Court sides on this!

        • March 26, 2014 at 9:43 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Actually, the morning after pill simply prevents contraception as well. It is emergency contraception and works before pregnancy begins. It’s not an abortion pill like most of the uninformed believe it is.

          a web address may help, “princeton.edu/questions/ecabt.html” – check it out for some education on the subject

  • March 21, 2014 at 12:51 pm
    Libby says:
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    Here we go again. Hobby Lobby just needs to go away. They can not force their religious beliefs on to their employees. And they can’t skirt the law of the land like it doesn’t apply to them. If they want to become a true religious institution on a non-profit basis, then let’s talk. Otherwise, you’re subject to the law same as any other for-profit business. Period.

    • March 21, 2014 at 3:31 pm
      Jared says:
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      • March 24, 2014 at 9:42 am
        Libby says:
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        You do know that discrimination based on religion is illegal, don’t you?

  • March 21, 2014 at 1:28 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Amen ExciteBiker, Amen Libby! Sounds like The Greens need some education. Sex education to be exact. They just don’t get it!

    March Madness weekend – have a good one all. Anyone have any special plans?

    • March 21, 2014 at 2:10 pm
      Libby says:
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      • March 21, 2014 at 3:17 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        Yeah, I don’t have much on the radar either. Though, I’m considering getting all drunk on Guinness and then publicly urinating on a Chic-Fil-A.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:20 pm
          Libby says:
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        • March 21, 2014 at 3:20 pm
          FFA says:
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          Save that for the United Center – a trip to the bulls game. Urinate on d roses jersey.

          Joe Noah for MVP!!! My opinion, best player in the NBA. Just keeps striving to be the best and there is something to be said for his determination.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:32 pm
          Agent says:
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          So Planet, you are one of those gay sympathizers that don’t like Chic-Fil-A because of their stand. Funny thing happened on that. When the gays boycotted them, their business almost doubled across the country. I hope you get arrested for desecrating the building.

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:34 pm
            Libby says:
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            des·e·crate

            1.insult something holy: to damage something sacred, or do something that is offensive to the religious nature of something
            2.damage something revered: to damage something that is held dear or revered

            Do you pray to the Chik-Fil-A gods, Agent?

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:40 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent, it’s a joke. Didn’t you follow the Guinness story from earlier this week. Do you see the connection now or do I really need to draw a picture?

            I couldn’t personally care less about Chic-Fil-A. I don’t eat fast food at all. Don’t care who is peddling it. It’s awful for you, holds very little nutritional value. People who wish to poison themselves with that, more power to them. I’ll pass, thank you. Pro Tip – Might want to research that “farm” where their “chicken” is coming from. Goes for any fast food chain, by the way.

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:42 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            And yes, I do sympathize with my gay brothers and sisters. They have been discriminated against for too long. Haven’t you seen that show on Netflix, “Gay Is The New Black”?

  • March 21, 2014 at 1:37 pm
    FFA says:
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    Really folks??? With all the lies OBama sold us on and you still support this.
    What I dont get is why people think the Govt can do a better job then private industry. All the wasted money, time, upset to joe average person, the lost jobs, the reduction in hours and the effort all based on lies OBama told.

    And you still support a liar. Mind Boggeling to be hones with you. Personally, I have no use for liars.

    Do you accept lies from other people in your life? Spouse? Kids? Teachers? Remember, Bush is long gone.

    • March 21, 2014 at 2:54 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, Libby doesn’t care if the law was sold on a multitude of lies. She doesn’t understand Constitutional freedoms for business? All she has on her mind is that it is unfair for a business to exclude Birth Control as part of their package of benefits they offer to employees. The employer is paying the premiums and bought the plan. They should have every right to put in whatever they want. If the employee doesn’t like the plan, go work somewhere else.

      • March 21, 2014 at 3:00 pm
        Libby says:
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        That was fine 3 years ago, Agent, but things have changed. Try to keep up.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:34 pm
          Jared says:
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          • March 24, 2014 at 9:35 am
            Libby says:
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            News flash, Jared. I don’t need birth control anymore and when I did, my employer did not cover it. I paid for it myself. That eventually changed and I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t be covered. They would pay for a pregnacy, wouldn’t they? They pay for viagra, don’t they?

            Just what are you upset about? That birth control is covered (and has been by most employers plans for years) or that it is a mandate that it be covered?

            Because I can understand you being upset about a mandate (one I obviously agree with.) But if you’re upset about it being covered at all, then I think you are wrong.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:35 pm
          Agent says:
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          The law is imploding with each passing week Libby. Try to keep up with current events. By the mid terms and after the supporters of this so called “law” get beat, we can finally install something that works and the government will get out of the mandating business.

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:36 pm
            Libby says:
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            If that happens, then that will be the “law of the land.” (Sorry, Former, I can’t help myself.)

            Until then, this is what we got. Hobby Lobby needs to be the one to “suck it up.”

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:49 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            And, once Mitt Romney wins The Office…oh, wait, how did that prediction work out? You and Karl Rove don’t exactly have a crystal ball now do you, Agent? Explain to me how the midterms are going to lead to the law being overturned? You really think President Obama is going to sign a bill that overturns his signature law?

          • March 21, 2014 at 5:39 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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            Imploding it is:
            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/21/another-glitch-newly-discovered-healthcaregov-error-giving-bad-info-on-premium/?intcmp=latestnews

            A very good friend of mine has son who has been trying to get health insurance since December – he was turned down for a “regular” plan and now he’s supposed to apply for medicaid. Unbelieveable.

          • March 22, 2014 at 2:28 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Always,
            Are you seriously using Fox News as a source? Might as well call the Koch Bros and ask them what they think.

          • March 22, 2014 at 4:48 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            I suppose you could also call Frank Luntz. He probably spearheaded the article you are referencing.

      • March 24, 2014 at 6:17 pm
        Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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        So, if an employer owns several company cars for use by employees, and the employer doesn’t believe in seatbelts, they should have the right to remove them. If the employee doesn’t like it, they can go work somewhere else. Right? After all, the employer is the one paying for it, right?

    • March 21, 2014 at 4:29 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, I don’t know why we are still arguing these points about Obamacare. Ezekiel Emanuel is promoting his book and he said in an interview that Employer sponsored plans are going away under Obamacare which was the plan all along. By 2025, only 20% of the largest employers will be left. He thinks this is a good thing since he hopes to have single payer in place. I wonder what he will think if the Senate changes out in November and the whole law is replaced with something that actually works.

      • March 21, 2014 at 4:37 pm
        Libby says:
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        It will get vetoed by Obama, that’s what will happen.

        • March 23, 2014 at 8:36 am
          Destro says:
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          Despite whether or not if it’s an improvement. ESPECIALLY if it’s an improvement.

          • March 24, 2014 at 2:03 pm
            Libby says:
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            You mean the Republicans are finally going to get up off their asses and come up with a plan??? What have they been waiting for?

  • March 21, 2014 at 1:43 pm
    Libby says:
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    FFA – it’s not a matter of supporting the ACA or not. It’s a matter of Hobby Lobby trying to force their religious beliefs on to their employees. If they don’t want to use birth control, great. But as a for-profit corporation, you can’t hide behind religious freedom

    And don’t give me that hooey about they’ll have to pay more for insurance to include birth control because that just isn’t true. It’s the EXACT OPPOSITE. Including birth control contributes to lower premiums, not higher.

    • March 21, 2014 at 1:47 pm
      Former Status Quo says:
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      Libby,

      They aren’t forcing their beliefs on anyone. As a candidate for employment you should know the history of the company you work for. If you don’t agree with the beliefs of the company then don’t work there and don’t shop there…

      • March 21, 2014 at 2:07 pm
        Libby says:
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        That’s baloney and you know it. Now you are saying that their religious beliefs out-trump mine since I’m just an employee and not a business owner. That’s reverse religious discrimination.

        • March 21, 2014 at 2:10 pm
          Libby says:
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          Oh, and I took Iowa!

        • March 21, 2014 at 2:42 pm
          Former Status Quo says:
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          I keep searching the page, but I can’t find it. Where did I say their religious beliefs out-trump yours??? I think you are confusing the simple point that if you do not agree with someone/something then you should not patronize them.

          I don’t agree with the way AIG treats their employees, therefore I will I work there. I don’t agree with poultry farmers that are not free ranger farmers, therefore I don’t buy their products. It is a simple decision.

          If as an employee you want access to something like Plan B, then you should know that Hobby Lobby won’t provide it, therefore you should not apply there. If you don’t like Christian music, then don’t shop in Hobby Lobby’s stores. However, if you want to work there so badly and you love their products so much, then suck it up and deal with it.

          People and businesses should not have to change their models to satisfy the public.

          • March 24, 2014 at 12:02 pm
            Got Insurance?? says:
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            You are right…….and I should let my family go hungry if this happens to be the only employment opportunity for me just because I dont agree with their religious beliefs. We all know that this country is ripe with unlimited employment opportunities. Get real!

        • March 21, 2014 at 2:56 pm
          Libby says:
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          As a candidate for employment my religious beliefs should be no where in the equation, nor should my prospective employer’s. If you are saying I shouldn’t work there if I don’t agree with their religious beliefs, you are saying their beliefs out-trump mine and if I want to be employed there I just have to “suck it up.”

          I’ll agree with the don’t patronize as a customer, but I will not agree regarding an employment relationship. Religion shouldn’t enter into that arrangement.

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:12 pm
            Former Status Quo says:
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            Fine let’s take the religion out of it and humor me for a second: Johnson & Johnson belives it is still okay to test products on animals, something you disagree with. Would you apply for a job at J&J knowing they test their products on animals?

            The logical answer, would be: “No, I am not going to work there.” But if that were the case, wouldn’t that mean J&J’s beliefs out trump yours?

            That being said, how is this different from the religious principles?

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:19 pm
            Libby says:
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            If the only choice I had for a job would be to work at J&J or nowhere, I would have to suck it up and work there. But animal testing is not against the law. Witholding birth control from health insurance coverage is. To say Hobby Lobby has some kind of an exemption from the law because it offends it’s religious sensibilities is ridiculous. For one thing, they are a for-profit corporation and therefore, not entitled to religious sensibilities.

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:19 pm
            Libby says:
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            And you can’t take religion out of it, because that is the whole premise of Hobby Lobby’s arguement.

      • March 21, 2014 at 2:50 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hey Former, I have yet to see an employee of Hobby Lobby picketing their employer because the company objects to providing birth control. This is really all about freedom and whether it is appropriate for a government to dictate to private business what benefits they provide to employees. The law should never have been passed to start with and Progressives always think they know better and can mandate to the rest of us. I hope the Supreme Court does a better job with this issue than they did on the Constitutional issue. All they decided was the charge was a tax rather than a fine.

        • March 21, 2014 at 2:57 pm
          Libby says:
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          Get some new material, Agent.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:13 pm
          Former Status Quo says:
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          I hear ya. I just need something to do today because my Bracket got busted…nothing like debating with people on the internet…

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:21 pm
            Libby says:
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            Busted bracket. Bummer.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:25 pm
          Libby says:
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          Agent,

          This is not about “freedom and whether it is appropriate for a government to dictate to private business what benefits they provide to employees.” That ship has sailed and law says they can dictate. Again, not supporting it, just stating the facts.

          This is about someone trying to skirt the law by citing religious issues. The law says what the law says. Why shouldn’t Hobby Lobby have to abide by the same law my employer has to abide by?

          • March 23, 2014 at 8:43 am
            Destro says:
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            “Again, not supporting it.”

            HA! Right, sure you don’t.

          • March 23, 2014 at 10:01 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Destro, she doesn’t support it. She has consistently been against it in all of her posts. We know you are new out here, so we’ll let you act like some sweetened squashed tomato paste and ketchup.

          • March 24, 2014 at 8:52 am
            Libby says:
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            Destro:

            You know nothing of what I support or do not support. So to keep yourself from looking like an even bigger idiot that you already have, I’d suggest you zip it.

          • March 24, 2014 at 10:42 am
            Libby says:
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            Just to be clear, I support the notion of healthcare for ALL Americans, not just the ones that can afford it. They are usually the ones that need it least.

            I thought the ACA was going to do that, but it has been a big disappointment, mostly because Obama tried to incorporate Republican ideas into this law.

            Now, I just want Universal healthcare for all Americans. We certainly can squeeze some money out of the defense budget, the crop subsidies, and the other corporate welfare to accomplish that without increasing taxes one bit.

      • March 24, 2014 at 6:24 pm
        Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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        Former, it’s funny how the ones going around saying “don’t work there” are also the ones who are against public assistance. Do you want people to work or not? Maybe you haven’t realized, but the job market isn’t all that great (you know, that high unemployment rate). Some people have limited options. I, for one, would prefer that people work, instead of not working, because of some company’s leaders’ ignorant beliefs in magical wizards and fairies.

  • March 21, 2014 at 1:51 pm
    FFA says:
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    Nice theory Libby. Who put that out, the Obama admin? Getting sucked into another lie?

    Where is the actuarial data by someone other then the liar in charge?

    If your spouse lied to you like OBama lied to you, would he still be around? Would you trust anything he said?

    • March 24, 2014 at 6:30 pm
      Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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      He shouldn’t lie; he should just say that he doesn’t remember doing that.

      • March 25, 2014 at 5:21 pm
        Agent says:
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        Obama the Narcissist loves the camera. He lied 39 times on tape that if we liked our plan we could keep it -PERIOD! If we liked our doctor, we could keep him – PERIOD! Can he now say that he didn’t really say that?

        • March 26, 2014 at 9:11 am
          Libby says:
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          A lie is a false statement to a person or group made by another person or group who knows it is not the whole truth, intentionally.

          A misstatement is to state falsely or incorrectly without intent.

          Prove he lied and didn’t misstate.

  • March 21, 2014 at 2:03 pm
    Original Bob says:
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    As I lean libertarian I’m against the government telling “private” business to do anything that should be left to the people (owners) who have their personal funds at risk. Free birth control is a Sanger/Flukeristic religion which should play no part in in our politics or in an ill conceived health care act. If you don’t like Hobby Lobby, don’t invest or work or shop at their stores.

    • March 21, 2014 at 2:09 pm
      Libby says:
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      That may be so, Original, but unfortunately whether for or against, the ACA is the law of the land. And Hobby Lobby has to abide by it the same as anyone else until it is no longer law.

      • March 21, 2014 at 2:29 pm
        FFA says:
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        It is the law of the land until OBama pulls his pen pout and inks some more lies.

        O Bob, I cant agree more. They cant keep their house in order and the liar wants to tell me how to keep my house in order.

        If you missed the local Chicago news, two more democrats in legal problems. One resigned the day the feds raided him. The other just hit the news this AM. Both Democrats. Both Cook County. Where did Obama cut his teeth?

  • March 21, 2014 at 2:25 pm
    Original Bob says:
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    Marijuana use is illegal is the law of the land, illegal immigration is the law of the land, defense of marriage act is the law of the land, voter registration is the law of the land – it appears that “law of the land” only applies when liberals agree with it.
    And I thought Friday would be a low post day.

    • March 21, 2014 at 2:41 pm
      Libby says:
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      The defense of marriage act has been struck down as unconstitutional and is no longer the law of the land. SCOTUS ruled on the ACA and found it was not unconstitutional.

      I understand you don’t like the law, but it is the law. And as such, it has to be followed even by Hobby Lobby.

      • March 21, 2014 at 2:55 pm
        Original Bob says:
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        Okay, I’m one for four. SOCUS ruled on the constitutionality of imposing ACA as a “tax” and left the other issues open. Would you post “law of the land” one more time? I might have missed it the millions of times it has been posted/spoken by liberal bloggers and the democratic party in the context of the ACA – And Libby I still don’t think you are in the insurance profession.

        • March 21, 2014 at 2:58 pm
          Libby says:
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          I don’t give a rats ass what profession you think I’m in.

          • March 21, 2014 at 2:59 pm
            Libby says:
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            And, as a man, I don’t give a rats ass about your opinion on birth control, either.

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:13 pm
            Original Bob says:
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            Really? (the Jon Stewart response)

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:24 pm
            FFA says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Then why respond to him?

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:26 pm
            Libby says:
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            Because, FFA, I have to get the last word. Remember?

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:39 pm
            FFA says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Oh yea. Thats right. CRS today (for me).

          • March 23, 2014 at 8:47 am
            Destro says:
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            Haha Libby, you are the worst.

          • March 24, 2014 at 8:53 am
            Libby says:
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            I’m the worst what?

    • March 21, 2014 at 3:42 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Hey O Bob, Marijuana has been legalized in some states including Libby’s home of Colorado. Does that explain her comments? I think she is stoned half the time with her repetitive and ill conceived ideas.

      • March 21, 2014 at 5:01 pm
        original Bob says:
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        That seems logical but Libby was spouting the liberal demo party line before the marijuana law was passed and I know since it was not the “law of the land” back then (obviously Colorado law trumps federal laws) Libby would not have been previously stoned. Or if so, she may claim that previously she only Clintoned that joint so as not to break the “law of the land”.

      • March 23, 2014 at 8:49 am
        Destro says:
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        Average Libby response:

        “Law of the land blah blah, ACA blah blah, law of the land blah blah religious blah. Blah law of the land blah.”

      • March 24, 2014 at 8:55 am
        Libby says:
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        Average Destro response: Haha Libby sucks haha haha you’re an idiot haha haha repeal the ACA haha haha impeach Obama haha haha Libby sucks.

  • March 21, 2014 at 2:29 pm
    R says:
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    The point missed relates to the Citizens United case. The Supreme ruled corporations have the same free speech rights as individuals and are not subject to different rules than individuals in the exercise of free speech in political races.
    If Corporations have the same rights as individuals under the Citizens case, then do they have the same rights as individuals to not be coerced against their will to violate their principles?
    PPACA does not mandate that an individual use any form of contraception, it merely says if you choose to do so it is covered under the insurance plan. PPACA does force a corporation offering insurance to now cover more types of contraception.

    Does this violate their free speech rights?

    • March 21, 2014 at 2:39 pm
      Libby says:
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      How can a Corporation have principles??? And no, this has nothing to do with free speech. They are free to bitch and moan about it all they want, but they still have to provide the coverage. It is the employee’s individual choice to use it or not – according to their religious principles, not the Corporations’.

      • March 23, 2014 at 9:17 am
        Destro says:
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        But why should birth control be mandatorily covered in the first place. If birth control is covered I want massage/accupunture and manicures/pedicures covered as well. Also, pet grooming and haircuts/shaves.

        • March 23, 2014 at 3:20 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Because, birth control is medical in nature. My wife was prescribed birth control NOT for the sake of avoiding pregnancy but for another medical condition. Look into it and get some education, Destro. Manicures are not medical in nature. You may be onto something with accupuncture, though. I hear you on that one.

          • March 23, 2014 at 3:55 pm
            destro says:
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            Well if you have untended cuticles that could lead to an infection in your nail bed so technically it’s preventing a medical condition.

          • March 24, 2014 at 10:30 am
            FFA says:
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            Captain Planet says:
            “Because, birth control is medical in nature. My wife was prescribed birth control NOT for the sake of avoiding pregnancy but for another medical condition”

            then, Cap, its not Birth Control.

          • March 24, 2014 at 10:38 am
            Libby says:
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            It’s still medical in nature, FFA.

          • March 24, 2014 at 2:02 pm
            FFA says:
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            Yes it is. But it is not prescribed for the sole purpose of Birth Control. An apple and an orange sprung from the same seed. If I recall other posts, didn’t work to well for Cap Planet. He got the d Rose Birth Control – Over Priced, defective and ineffective. A complete waste of good money.

          • March 24, 2014 at 2:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            I don’t understand your point. Captain’s wife was prescribed birth control pills for a medical condition. Are you saying it’s OK to pay for them in that case, but not if they’re used for actual birth control?

            And I don’t know if their recent bundle of joy was a result of faulty BC or a planned event.

          • March 24, 2014 at 2:29 pm
            FFA says:
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            My point is that his wife is not taking Birth Control, but medication for another issue. It may be the same pill, but billed under a different code for her medical condition.

            His argument for or against can not be based on religion as it is medical necessity, not voluntary Birth Control. Voluntary Birth Control… Thats the difference.

            He did previously state that he slipped one by the goalie. He got an OOPS… LOOKIE HERE. Thought he was done and then had to rethink it all… Even the best laid plans run amuck. He made his decision and never looked back. Tells me that he is an honorable man forgoing abortion, standing up, being accountable for his blood.

            Oh, and he is not defending D Rose any more.

          • March 24, 2014 at 2:32 pm
            Libby says:
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            So you ARE saying it should be covered as long as it’s not used for its intended purpose which is birth control???

          • March 24, 2014 at 3:35 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, he states that the intended use is not for Birth Control, but for a medical condition. As such, the coding that the doc uses to bill is different then the coding for Voluntary Birth Control.

            Some people take asprin for head aches. Some take it to thin blood in older age. Same pill, different reason for taking it.

            Its the intended use that makes the difference. She is taking it to medicate a lady parts problem, not to avoid pregnancy. She needs it, not wants it. Need VS Want.

            So, in this case, it is not birth control, but medication.

          • March 24, 2014 at 3:41 pm
            FFA says:
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            “Libby says:
            So you ARE saying it should be covered as long as it’s not used for its intended purpose which is birth control??”

            He has already established the intended purpose is for a medical condition. Its intended purpose is not birth control. It is not being billed as Voluntary Birth Control. In his case, the side effect is Birth Control.

            Yes, his wife needs it just like my wife needs her Thyroid & Diabetes Meds. Being a medical condition, it should absolutely be covered.

          • March 24, 2014 at 3:56 pm
            Libby says:
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            FFA – The doctor’s office codes the office visit and diagnosis, not the prescription. The prescription is either covered or not covered, regardless of the reason for prescribing.

            I am asking you if birth control pills, for lack of another name to call them, should be covered or not. I think what you are saying is they should be covered as long as they are not used for birth control but for another “medical” condition. Is that your position???

          • March 24, 2014 at 4:24 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby – from my previous post – “Yes, his wife needs it just like my wife needs her Thyroid & Diabetes Meds. Being a medical condition, it should absolutely be covered.”

            Also My Previous post – Needs vs wants. 2 different codes.

            She is taking medication for an existing medical condition.

            Just to be clear, YES, she needs it for a medical condition.

            For someone that wants to avoid consequences of their actions, no, it should not be covered.

          • March 24, 2014 at 4:30 pm
            Libby says:
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            Well, I view avoiding an unwanted pregnancy a medical issue, FFA. The pill must be prescribed by a doctor. That makes it medical in my book.

          • March 25, 2014 at 3:11 pm
            FFA says:
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            Well Libby, it may be in your book. My sis is a TPA for a union benefit plan. Your book does not read the same as theirs. I have got to go with a TPA that I know and trust.

            No disrespect intended, but I will stick with the way they write the book.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:13 pm
            Libby says:
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            I have no idea what you are talking about FFA.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:23 pm
            FFA says:
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            TPA = Third Party Administrator. My sister audits claims payments in a self funded plan.

            She – unlike Obama – follows the law.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:38 pm
            Libby says:
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            What does that have to do with birth control?

        • March 25, 2014 at 12:00 pm
          Got Insurance?? says:
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          Well then….you should have got into politics and made sure that there was plenty of pork in the bill to make sure those things were covered!

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:13 pm
            Libby says:
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            Or you, Got insurance??

  • March 21, 2014 at 3:23 pm
    Captain Planet says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Who wants to come with me to a Planned Parenthood to get some free jimmie hats and make a trip into a Hobby Lobby? We can Breitbart it and get it on video. Conservatives love that sh!t.

    • March 21, 2014 at 3:26 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      I’m in!

      • March 21, 2014 at 3:30 pm
        Captain Planet says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Okay, but we won’t doctor our footage. We’ll use raw footage. That’s how we can separate ourselves from the Breitbart way.

        • March 21, 2014 at 3:35 pm
          Libby says:
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          No editing either!

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:40 pm
            FFA says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Lets see if I can snarf the last word in this string…
            Do I get a free condom to wear?

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:45 pm
            Agent says:
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            Unfortunately FFA, nothing is free. Someone has to pay for all these lovely things. If you want to have fun with Planet, you can join him urinating on Chic-Fil-A’s building. In my town, that should get you about 30 days in the local jail.

          • March 21, 2014 at 3:59 pm
            FFA says:
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            No thanks agent. I have my Awards Dinner tonight. Gonna snap up a few plaques and a bonus check. Not sure what else. I am sitting at the same table as the COB. Rep would not tip his hand why I drew that card. Maybe just the luck of the draw. May be something other then what I already know I am getting… I know I had a good year with them folks. Dont think agent of the year, but they know I bust my ass for them and I am very aware of my P & L statements.

          • March 21, 2014 at 4:20 pm
            Libby says:
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            Congratulations, Agent! You deserve an award and a bonus!

          • March 21, 2014 at 4:20 pm
            Libby says:
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            Sorry! I mean:

            Congratulations, FFA! You deserve an award and a bonus!

          • March 23, 2014 at 10:46 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent,
            I had a good weekend, you? This tournament is awesome. Had my fill of the lovely Irish stout, pulled the zipper, dropped my jeans, and turned the West Des Moines location into Chik-Fil-P.

        • March 23, 2014 at 9:18 am
          Destro says:
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          You’re an idiot. First off, Breitbart didn’t doctor his footage, other media sources did. Secondly, every single media outlet selectively edits and “doctors” their footage.

  • March 21, 2014 at 4:23 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Yeah, duh Libby! They don’t just hand out awards to everyone. This isn’t 5 year old soccer.

    • March 21, 2014 at 4:35 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      That’s ok Libby, I have already received my plaques and bonuses for outstanding production with my top company. I bet you about choked on your congratulations to me after hitting the post button.

      • March 21, 2014 at 4:38 pm
        Libby says:
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        Not at all. If you were getting an award, I would congratulate you, too. There’s never enough pats on the back for a job well done. I hope you have an enjoyable weekend, Agent.

      • March 22, 2014 at 2:31 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        Agent,
        Just got off the phone with your dentist. You’ve got plaque, all right!

        • March 25, 2014 at 10:11 am
          Agent says:
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          Planet, I heard you got “Idiot Of The Year”. Congratulations for a job well done. Your employer should be proud to have such an outstanding citizen working for him.

          • March 25, 2014 at 11:49 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Idiot of The Year – Uhhhh, good one???? (That’s gold, Jerry!)

            Oh yeah, well the jerk store called…

            Jokes, Agent, jokes. Put a smile on that face!

          • March 26, 2014 at 11:23 am
            Libby says:
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            And they want their Agent back.

  • March 21, 2014 at 4:41 pm
    Agent says:
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    Way to go FFA. Stick with growing with P&C and you will do well. It is a tried and proven formula for growth in an agency. Libby slams agents that have substantial Personal Lines volume. We still have a much larger volume in Commercial Lines, but our Personal Lines is doing very well also and it does pay a lot of bills and is less volatile that Commercial Lines. Many of our carriers have combined production in both lines for Contingency and that sweetens the pot. Oops! There I go talking about success and making some money. To someone like Ron and Libby, I only worship money. I also like doing a great job for my clients, by the way.

    • March 21, 2014 at 4:52 pm
      Libby says:
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      Way to go, Agent. I say something nice to you and you turn around and slam me to FFA. You’re a miserable old man. But I still hope you enjoy your weekend. Would it kill you to return the sentiment?

    • March 24, 2014 at 10:33 am
      FFA says:
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      Thanks for the Pats On the back… All I was trying to do was to keep on top of my bills. was not even paying attention to the production numbers.

      But, 2013 is gone, done and over with. We all live in a world of what have you done for me lately, so time to roll up the sleeves and get back at it.

      • March 24, 2014 at 2:48 pm
        FFA says:
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        BTW, my awards were based on Premium Growth, Life Premium and Loss Ratio based on – you guessed it – loss/premium.

        • March 24, 2014 at 3:21 pm
          Libby says:
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          Of course they were, FFA. They were COMPANY awards. That’s how COMPANIES calculate revenue, by premium. AGENCIES use commission. I don’t know why you are so pig-headed on this subject.

          If you sell $500,000 premium at 0% commission, you haven’t made a single dime.

          • March 24, 2014 at 4:18 pm
            FFA says:
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            The first number in agency revenue calculations is was always will be premium. One is just as important as the other.

          • March 24, 2014 at 4:32 pm
            Libby says:
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            Not true. The first number in agency revenue calculations is REVENUE. If you write on a fee basis, premium means nothing. If you write WC v. Package business, premium means nothing. It’s all about what you bring to the bottom line and nothing else. But you go ahead and keep arguing with me about it.

          • March 25, 2014 at 3:04 pm
            FFA says:
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            I dont fee. Many around me do. That is one reason I take business from my local competitors. Yahoo next town over charges $5.00 to process a cert.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:15 pm
            Libby says:
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            Not that kind of fee, FFA. You write the business net of commission and charge a fee for service. It usually ends up being less than the commission. Large accounts prefer to purchase insurance and services this way.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:26 pm
            FFA says:
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            HMMM. My biggest account is about $250000 Premium. I’ll stick with commis.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:40 pm
            Libby says:
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            Again, FFA, you don’t understand. It is usually the client that requests service on a fee basis.

            If you client knew that, according to you and Agent’s 10% rule, you make $25,000 off of him would he think your services are worth that? Do you disclose that to him?

          • March 26, 2014 at 11:21 am
            Libby says:
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            I didn’t think so.

        • March 25, 2014 at 10:16 am
          Agent says:
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          There she goes again FFA telling you how to calculate your success. Obviously, as a CSR, she doesn’t understand what an agent sees with yearly calculations with companies, hasn’t seen a bonus calculation based on Loss Ratio etc. She is almost as goofy as Planet, but not quite.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:18 pm
            Libby says:
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            F/U Agent. I’m telling you both how to calculate REVENUE, not success. You both are just too stubborn, bull-headed, and hard-headed to understand what I’m saying.

            Of course carrier calculations (contingencies and profit sharing) are based on premium. Premium is the carrier’s REVENUE.

            I will not debate with you two numbskulls the definition of revenue when it comes to an agency operation any longer. You’re obviously too dense to understand the concept.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:30 pm
            FFA says:
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            You just have not made any sense to me on your point. My revenues are a %% of premium. Thats how I operate. No Fees. Just Commis. No Premium. No Commish. That simple. no obama speak here. Just old school webster dictionary language. What I was taught in grade school by the knuckle wrapping nuns. When a spanking on the but was not child abuse.

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            I understand that. MY POINT (again and again and again) is that depending on the carrier, product, and line of business the commission percentage will change.

            A “$100,000 account” is really a $5,000 account at 5%.
            It is a $15,000 account at 15%.

            So using premium as a basis to calculate YOUR REVENUE (not the carrier’s revenue, which is premium) is the commission amount. That is revenue to the agency, not the premium.

            I really don’t see what is so hard to understand. If I make $50,000 wages, the amount that goes into my bank account depends on my tax bracket, my deductions, and various other items. So I really don’t take home $50k. It’s the same concept. Premium means nothing. It’s the commission on the premium that pays your bills.

            I worked with a guy that all he wrote was professional liability at 7.5% commission. He had a $15M book. However, his REVENUE on his book was less than the revenue on my $15M book, because I made more commission.

            We both had $15M books, but the revenue was not the same. Get it?

            Comparing premium to revenue is comparing apples to oranges.

        • March 25, 2014 at 5:10 pm
          Agent says:
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          So FFA, Libby just can’t leave it alone, can she? She admits not ever owning an agency and she doesn’t even know how an agency conducts business and thinks we are dumb about commissions and premium volume. I get two documents every month from my carriers. 1. Production report – Premium for month and premium year to date by line. That is how we track our growth with a company. 2. Commission Statement – Commissions we earn with that company for that month.

          You got your bonus and award from putting premium volume on the books and obviously grew a lot with the company. The bonus is a reward for your hard work. I have yet to see a carrier give an award for “revenue” growth. We all know that premium growth leads to revenue growth.

          • March 26, 2014 at 9:14 am
            Libby says:
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            If you rely on company commission statements and don’t track your revenue using your own system, you’re an idiot Agent. But I think I’ve already established that point.

            Keep going. You’re only making yourself look stupider and stupider.

          • March 26, 2014 at 2:23 pm
            FFA says:
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            In the context of the discussion I was having with agent, anyone with a grade school math class could have easily figured out one or the other. I flipped a coin in my head and it came up premium.

          • March 26, 2014 at 2:40 pm
            Libby says:
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            Look. I apologize for horning in on your intimate chat with Agent on the size of your, uh, agency.

            I’ll keep my comments to myself from now on, since you don’t seem open to hearing them.

            OK?

          • March 26, 2014 at 3:03 pm
            FFA says:
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            I wanst discussing the size of agency, just how busy it had been. It was a 4 – 5 day run that saw a quick sharp drastic drastic in premium and in agency revenue. Been a long time since I had that kind of volume move in that short of a time frame across multiple accounts.

          • March 26, 2014 at 3:04 pm
            FFA says:
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            Agent – neither can I. A pointless discussion where both parties are right. I have admitted that she is right.

          • March 26, 2014 at 3:12 pm
            Libby says:
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            Whatever. Just to state the facts, you said you wanted to grow to a $5M agency and I asked you if you meant premium or commission. That’s what I remember starting it. And we are both not right. You are wrong to value your agency in terms of premium dollars. Period. End of story. Nobody is going to buy your premium, they are going to buy your revenue. But you go ahead and continue to think like the ex-captive that you are. You’ll be lucky to hit the $5M mark.

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:41 pm
    Marcus Neale says:
    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • March 24, 2014 at 6:38 pm
      Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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      Stop the fornicators too! Go to your prayer closet!

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:55 pm
    Mary Feeney says:
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    “Santorum: States Should Have The Right To Outlaw Birth Control”

    Rick Santorum reiterated his belief that states should have the right to outlaw contraception during an interview with ABC News yesterday, saying, “The state has a right to do that, I have never questioned that the state has a right to do that. It is not a constitutional right, the state has the right to pass whatever statues they have.”
    Santorum has long opposed the Supreme Court’s 1965 ruling “that invalidated a Connecticut law banning contraception” and has also pledged to completely defund federal funding for contraception if elected president. As he told CaffeinatedThoughts.com editor Shane Vander Hart in October, “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country,” the former Pennsylvania senator explained. “It’s not okay. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm.

    • March 25, 2014 at 1:11 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Santorum running for President again? Oh yes, please, please, PLEASE! That guy might be the biggest joke of a candidate since, well, okay, he was just one of the clowns in the car that was looking for the R nomination. They were all equally laughable. I do invite Rick to bring his frothiness in a stretched out sweater vest to the debate again. I just hope not to get any on me.

      • March 25, 2014 at 4:19 pm
        Libby says:
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        What a gift to the Democrats what would be!

  • March 24, 2014 at 2:23 pm
    KY jw says:
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    I am curious how the SCOTUS justices will rule on this. I’m going to have to leave the arguing to others because while I think the law is clear, it really isn’t. You see, I think all businesses should be treated the same – so that competition is on a level playing field. Otherwise, the “exceptions” would allow some companies to lower costs unfairly. But, that’s just my opinion – and I’m no expert in law.

    I’m also (a little) concerned that the case law springing from this adventure will impact other areas. Sadly, I didn’t think of that on my own; I read an article this morning describing several possible consequences of either allowing or disallowing an exception.

    • March 24, 2014 at 2:35 pm
      Libby says:
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      Careful KY, you might start sounding like a socialist with all that “level playing field” talk.

      But that was my point from the get-go. Hobby Lobby should have to comply with this law the same as everyone else – until it’s repealed or changed.

      • March 25, 2014 at 7:38 am
        KY jw says:
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        Oops, didn’t mean to go all socialist. ;-)

        I’m kind of comparing it to insurance. Don’t all insurers want to be treated the same by the regulators? I mean, it would be a crime if one company is required to adhere to the law and a competitor wasn’t.

        • March 25, 2014 at 12:37 pm
          Agent says:
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          KYjw, do you remember the good old days when we had a free country before this Socialist law was passed? Believe it or not, employers could pick from a menu of plans from carriers to offer to their employees. Have you ever heard of a “Cafeteria” plan where employees could pick from several options? What we have now is the government dictating to business what they have to offer.

    • March 24, 2014 at 4:26 pm
      FFA says:
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      Notre Dame lost their case. Precedent is set. No way Hobby Lobby can be considered more religious then Notre Dame.

      • March 25, 2014 at 7:39 am
        KY jw says:
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        Hadn’t thought of that. I forgot all about ND.

  • March 24, 2014 at 2:55 pm
    destro says:
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    I see that Libby and CaptainPlanet’s earlier comments received some 20+ boost while all of the responses who previously had 80% positive have now been buried by a similar amount of downvotes….

    • March 24, 2014 at 3:22 pm
      Libby says:
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      The liberals come out at night while you neo-cons are clutching your stuffed Ronald Reagan dolls and sucking your thumbs.

      • March 25, 2014 at 12:46 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hey Libby, Cockroaches and Democ(rats) come out at night too.

        • March 25, 2014 at 1:01 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Not surprising about the Democrats. That’s when all the stars come out, too!

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:21 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’m sure you have alot of experience with cockroaches being from West Texas. Isn’t that cockroach HQ?

          • March 25, 2014 at 4:57 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Planet, I saw a good article about a candidate in Iowa who is running for Senate to replace the awful Tom Harkin. Joni Ernst said she was raised on an pig farm and castrated pigs growing up and she knew how to cut the pork in Washington. She sounds like a candidate I could endorse.

          • March 26, 2014 at 8:05 am
            Destro says:
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            The issue remains, either you, Captain Planet, or both of you are gaming these comments by spamvoting your posts up and anyone elses down by a minimum 20 votes on every one

          • March 26, 2014 at 9:17 am
            Libby says:
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            Spamvoting? I don’t even know what that is. I don’t know about you, but IJ only allows me to vote once and then I’m done. And Captain Planet doesn’t vote.

            Could it be that people just don’t like you?

          • March 26, 2014 at 9:59 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Destro, I don’t vote at all for me or anyone else. Watch when I post a comment, likes will be 0. Agent posts, likes will be 1 immediately. Not sure who does it, but it seems robovoting does happen out here. I would agree with that assessment. Could care less who likes my comments or not.

          • March 26, 2014 at 10:28 am
            Libby says:
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            I vote when I post my comment so it is grayed out. Then when I come back on the site, I can easily see the new postings without going through them all. But I do thumb down almost all of Agents posts, though. He’ll start out saying something halfway nice, but he always has to add a nastygram at the end.

          • March 26, 2014 at 11:39 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            So, Agent, I’m curious what specifically you agree with Joni about in her political platform.

            You may very well want to stand behind her, Agent. You wouldn’t want to get in front of her with her, um, skill set and some of the piggesh comments you post out here. Y know what she does to pigs.

            In all seriousness, a clever commercial but Harkin has done a good job for Iowa. He’s pretty well liked here. We should be focusing on Charles Grassley. Dude wanted to use federal funding to put a rain forest in IOWA. A rain forest here, really? Oh yes, really…

            http://lakecurrents.com/release-room/20101027/kaptur-files-indoor-rainforest-iowa-2-countdown-marcy-kapturs-most-wasteful-po

            You might see some of your other buddies supporting some serious pork in this article, Agent.

          • March 26, 2014 at 2:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            Quote from Joni:

            “As our campaign builds energy toward a primary win in June, Sarah Palin’s roaring support will help me to victory, and as a result, make ‘em squeal in Washington.”

            Wow. She’s a shoe-in with that endorsement.

          • March 26, 2014 at 2:46 pm
            Libby says:
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            But you know, Agent, she served in the Army, castrated pigs, and her husband’s name is “Gail”. Sounds a little butch to me. You sure you’d trust her in the senate?

  • March 25, 2014 at 6:14 pm
    Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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    I agree with Agent; we need to cut the pork. We need to stop giving millions in free handouts to billionaire NFL team owners.

  • March 25, 2014 at 6:22 pm
    Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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    Back to the topic of this story. Healthcare benefits provided by employer to employee are part of the employee’s compensation package. Does the employer have the right to decide how their employees’ paychecks can be spent? The employer pays for the paycheck; can a Jewish employer forbid a person from using any of their paycheck for the purchase of a Christmas ham? After all, the employer is paying for it, and they have the right to not have their money being spent on something that conflicts with their religious beliefs. I wonder how the Christians would feel about that one. Would they still argue in favor of the employer?

    • March 26, 2014 at 9:18 am
      Libby says:
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      Good one, Don’t.

  • March 26, 2014 at 10:37 am
    KY jw says:
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    Totally off topic:

    Has anyone seen a post from bob (from Washington) in the past week?

    • March 26, 2014 at 11:25 am
      Libby says:
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      I haven’t, but he sometimes goes weeks between postings.

  • March 26, 2014 at 10:54 am
    Captain Planet says:
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    Sceintologists do not believe in psychiatric medicine. Scientologists own many business. So, what if they refused any of their employees to have psychiatric medicine of any kind because taking it goes against their religion? Even taking aspirin is looked down upon in that religion. You all right with this as well, neo-cons? Or, what about a Muslim owning a business? Can’t have pork or alcohol, there goes BBQ ribs and beer for any of their employees.

    • March 26, 2014 at 2:27 pm
      FFA says:
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      Scientoligists??? You just making stuff up now or is that a real thing?

      • March 26, 2014 at 2:41 pm
        Libby says:
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        He’s not making it up.

      • March 27, 2014 at 10:34 am
        KY jw says:
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        I think it’s L. Ron Hubbard’s brain child and has been recognized as a religion. Freaky, eh?



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