Viewpoint: U.S. Can Learn from Florida Climate Change Response

May 27, 2014

  • May 27, 2014 at 10:25 am
    Jack Wolf says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Those pump stations won’t work for long. Not with Greenland and the W Antarctic ice sheets collapsing.

  • May 27, 2014 at 12:05 pm
    Andy says:
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    The early October in Miami invitation to Caribbean representatives should include October 8. That morning we should have one of the highest tides of the season. It would be interesting to see what low elevation areas get flooded without any storms. If there is even a moderate wind from the east, that would make the tide flooding even worse.

  • May 27, 2014 at 1:26 pm
    Henry H says:
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    8 inch rise in 100 years. So it will take about 300 years for the water to rise enough to be near the docs in the photos. Yes there is some climate change, as there always has been and always will be. How can man be so arrogant as to suppose that we humans are more powerful than the forces on natures’ natural fluctuations. What fossil fuels were burnt by humans to cause the glaciers to recede from the lower 48 state eons ago???? Oh, I remember, it was dino flatulence!

    • May 27, 2014 at 3:34 pm
      Destro says:
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      And volcanoes!!! Don’t forget about the volcanoes that spew gargantuan amounts of carbon into the air. Next task: find a way to stop volcanoes from erupting!

      • May 27, 2014 at 7:07 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        hmmm, I haven’t heard about any significant increase in volcanic activity that might account for warming over the prior century. So I’m thinking that’s probably not it.

        • May 28, 2014 at 8:03 am
          Destro says:
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          Mt St Helen’s? Mt Etna?

          • May 28, 2014 at 11:30 am
            Where_do_I_begin says:
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            The key to the previous comment is “significant increase.”

          • May 28, 2014 at 12:59 pm
            Agent says:
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            How about the one on Luzon in the Philippines. That one covered up the whole island in ash and killed a whole lot of people.

          • May 28, 2014 at 9:35 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Has there been a significant increase in volcanic activity over the last century, and if so can that account for increased mean global temps? Please cite a source.

          • May 29, 2014 at 8:55 am
            Destro says:
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            I never said a significant increase in volcanic activity, I said that volcanoes in general pump a ton of carbon into the atmosphere. Large volcanoes especially do this.

        • June 4, 2014 at 8:15 am
          Alex says:
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          The largest estimate of all of Earth’s volcanic carbon emissions — 500 million tons of CO2 — is “not even two percent of the 30 billion tons of CO2 that our civilization is cranking out every year.

        • June 12, 2014 at 10:12 pm
          Destro says:
      • May 29, 2014 at 9:14 am
        Reality_based_community says:
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        ok….why bring it up if it has nothing to do with climate *change* ???

        • May 31, 2014 at 5:02 pm
          Destro says:
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          How you get “has nothing to do with climate change” from anything I said is baffling.

          • June 2, 2014 at 9:33 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Let me be more specific, if there has been no change in volcanic activity over the last century, then it can hardly be the culprit of global warming trends observed over the last century. Correct?

      • June 2, 2014 at 9:46 am
        ExciteBiker says:
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        I recommend you watch Sunday’s episode of Cosmos where it is explained that total annual CO2 from all volcanic eruptions amounts to a very small % of what mankind artificially adds every year.

        Or you could buy an ostrich mask.

        • June 2, 2014 at 9:34 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          From what I’ve seen, their heads are exploding in reaction to the Cosmos episode.

        • June 4, 2014 at 8:44 am
          Dave says:
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          Did it explain what the USA reducing their carbon footprint by 30% while China and India increase theirs by 200% will do to the environment other than shipping millions of jobs from the US to India and China? I quit watching Cosmos after the third episode when it became apparent it was a propaganda program for the left.

          • June 4, 2014 at 9:31 am
            Libby says:
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            What a childish response.

          • June 4, 2014 at 12:17 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Destro, spoken like one who believes that science itself is a propaganda program for the left.

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:12 pm
            Destro says:
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            You’re such a colossal idiot.

          • June 15, 2014 at 8:11 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Destro, spoken like someone who has absolutely nothing substantive to say. But if you have nothing to say, why say anything?

    • May 27, 2014 at 4:22 pm
      SWFL Agent says:
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      Can’t tell from the photo if it’s a high or low tide. So 300 years could be high or low as well. More concrete and roof tops certainly have an affect on the localized flooding in SE Florida. So let’s assume we humans have no affect on climate at all and that we’re just in a natural cycle that’s occurred many times over the last million years. Do we just do nothing because it’s a “naturally occurring cycle”?

      • May 28, 2014 at 8:04 am
        Destro says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        If people are the problem then the only natural conclusion is that you’re for xenocide of the human race.

        • May 28, 2014 at 10:20 am
          EmpoftheEarth says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Everyone keeps saying fossil fuels, we should all ride bicycles…etc.

          Here, take a look at this…ANIMALS! That’s an outrage! You mean animals cause climate change? Gee, the population of humans and corresponding livestock to support said population has a strong correlation.

          http://www.worldwatch.org/files/pdf/Livestock%20and%20Climate%20Change.pdf

          Livestock are already well-known to contribute to GHG
          emissions. Livestock’s Long Shadow, the widely-cited 2006
          report by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization
          (FAO), estimates that 7,516 million metric tons per
          year of CO2 equivalents (CO2e), or 18 percent of annual
          worldwide GHG emissions, are attributable to cattle, buffalo,
          sheep, goats, camels, horses, pigs, and poultry. That amount
          would easily qualify livestock for a hard look indeed in the
          search for ways to address climate change. But our analysis
          shows that livestock and their byproducts actually account
          for at least 32,564million tons of CO2e per year, or 51 percent
          of annual worldwide GHG emissions.

          • May 28, 2014 at 1:03 pm
            Agent says:
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            So if we kill off all the animal life that contribute to C02, we will be better off, right? By the way, C02 is what plant life depend on to survive and they then give off oxygen. I think we may need oxygen for survival or we become Mars.

        • May 28, 2014 at 11:41 am
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Another leaping to a ridiculous conclusion.

      • May 28, 2014 at 8:04 am
        Destro says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Otherwise you’re just pissing in the wind.

  • May 27, 2014 at 1:28 pm
    Bill Price says:
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    Have they stopped all the Geo-source Air Conditioners pumping all the ground water out of the aquifers and causing the land to sink?
    BP

  • May 27, 2014 at 1:54 pm
    bob says:
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    sounds like they are pouring money into trying to solve an insurmountable problem. what happens when they finally give up – then the problem suddenly will be much worse. and that is inevitable.

    • May 27, 2014 at 3:36 pm
      Destro says:
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      And then they will be entirely broke from trying to stop the inevitable and need to be bailed out.

  • May 27, 2014 at 1:57 pm
    Dave says:
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    “Florida’s state and national politicians, including Governor Rick Scott and U.S. Senator Marco Rubio, are free to question whether climate change exists.”

    I tend to ignore any story which begins with a blatant lie. Scott and Rubio never said climate change does not exist, they are just questioning how much of it is attributal to man made actvity. They are also questioning the benefit of severely reducing the already reduced carbon footprint of the US while at the same time China and India are building new coal fired power plants each and every week. All the energy and jobs that go with it can be shipped to China and India with no change (if not an increase) in CO2 emmissions. Who do you figure will burn coal more cleanly and efficiently? China, India or the US? Better yet, just start the article with a blatant lie.

    • May 27, 2014 at 2:38 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Dave, did we have Environmentalists roaming around 100 years ago measuring the level of the ocean and whether it was rising or not? I think not although they sure like to spout off and say it has been rising since 1914. Hello!

      • May 27, 2014 at 7:01 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
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        Actually we have pretty good direct measurements extending back to 1800. Prior to that, there are very good proxy measurements, such as deposits of sediment. After 1990, even more precise satellite measurements are available. Did you think it was just made up?

        • May 28, 2014 at 8:06 am
          Destro says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          24 whole years of precise measurements, seems like a big enough dataset.

          • May 28, 2014 at 9:37 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            As I mentioned, good direct measurements extending back to 1800. Prior to that, sedimentation is a very good proxy.

          • May 29, 2014 at 9:14 am
            Destro says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            No, it’s not. You’re an idiot.

          • May 29, 2014 at 9:15 am
            Reality_based_community says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            What is “it.” And what is it “not?” Are you drunk? You’re not making any sense, or even present a coherent thought.

    • May 27, 2014 at 3:07 pm
      Color Me Purple says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Do you think because China and India are not working to curtail the creation of carbon emmissions, we should do the same?

      • May 27, 2014 at 4:06 pm
        Destro says:
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        I think he’s saying that it’s effectively doing nothing but ruining our economy.

        • May 28, 2014 at 4:00 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hey Destro, got a good one for you. Do you know how to brainwash a liberal? Give them an enema!

          • May 29, 2014 at 9:14 am
            Destro says:
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            Hahaha nice.

      • May 27, 2014 at 5:11 pm
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Hey Purple, how has that Green Energy program Obama put in place been working out for this country other than waste taxpayer dollars so the green companies could go belly up after they ran through their loan money? Do you think making energy out of algae or cow dung is an efficient way to manage our energy? Do you oppose the US exporting clean natural gas to Europe to help them against Putin is a bad idea?

        • May 28, 2014 at 8:07 am
          Destro says:
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          Who run Bartertown!?

          • May 28, 2014 at 10:22 am
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            Master Blaster…although Tina Turner employed numerous pigs to support the power supply of Bartertown after the apocalyptic events of Mad Max.

          • May 28, 2014 at 11:26 am
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            I didnt mean that in an insulting sense. She literally used pigs.

          • May 29, 2014 at 9:35 am
            Destro says:
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            It was a pretty solid energy source, although I would imagine the upkeep cost to feed them would cancel out most gains.

    • May 28, 2014 at 8:53 am
      Destro says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      But Dave, didn’t you know? If you don’t tow the climate change line in every way, then clearly you’re saying that climate change doesn’t exist at all, in any way.

      • May 28, 2014 at 11:07 am
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        And if you do believe it exists, you’re a nut? Why are you guys so beligerant about it?

        • May 28, 2014 at 2:41 pm
          bob says:
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          Because it’s being used to demonize our party?

          Because it’s being hyper exaggerated, and while your party suggest things like giving the ability to purchase carbon credits (really? You don’t think this would lead to and is cronyism?) we get demonized.

          So when big CEO’s buy all the carbon credits, and a small business cannot afford to buy any, and no start up businesses can make a good company, you’ll then blame republicans for the pollution that will still exist (big corporations will buy the credits so pollution won’t go down) and you’ll still blame republicans for a bad economy.

          Similar to the healthcare law.

          Make healthcare insurance unmanageable, watch the rates sky rocket, blame republicans, watch the economy stagnate, blame republicans for not spending more, then put in place a universal plan and raise taxes to be so high that low cost service businesses cannot start.

          Not every company needs to have professionals. About a third of the economy doesn’t need or benefit from higher taxes. Barbers, agriculture, etc.

          Get with the program Libby.

          People are pissed because this is yet another battle started by your side for a gimmick and to win a vote that harms us all.

          Like that absurd birth control pills argument against the church.

          • May 28, 2014 at 5:33 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, Some say that the VA scandal (Single Payer) for the military is a microcosm for what we will be getting from Obamacare in the very near future. Long waiting lines, no healthcare access, no doctors to treat, no surgery when needed and the idiots who want Single Payer for America are still trumpeting government healthcare for everyone. The government has been shown to be the most inefficient and wasteful of all institutions on anything they touch.

        • May 28, 2014 at 2:45 pm
          bob says:
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          Or to make it more simple:

          http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2014/05/27/329934.htm

          This is why we are upset.

          We don’t want a government solution to this, which will almost certainly lead to cronyism.

          Do you support lower taxes for green energy and manufacturing companies?

          Which are subsidized by higher tax rates for other companies?

          You say that oil companies are subsidized despite paying a global tax rate of 40%.

          You don’t support subsidizing companies and cronyism, but your party avidly does.

          And this climate change battle will cause it to be put in place even further.

          Your party actively screwed DHT in Oregon, (delivery services) and passed flight laws against UPS in Ohio.

          You have no defense. Get with the picture, this is why we are upset.

          Vote red, and throw these idiots out.

        • May 28, 2014 at 2:46 pm
          bob says:
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          Not to mention cable and building ordinance laws in WA State that make certain that dsl companies cannot put the groundwork as easily and it costs more so that comcast has a dominance in many districts.

          Your party always says how if they step in and regulate it will help.

          No. It won’t.

          They need to butt out.

  • May 27, 2014 at 3:05 pm
    Blue Dog says:
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    The earth is now and will always be changing.
    Its arrogant to think that we can defy gravity and the laws of physics-and essentially the hand of God by trying to artificially keep things cast in amber.
    I love our planet and to me it shows the existence of God. I do what I can to be responsible with the blessings that I have been given but I’m not a fool and think that I can make the world as I will it.

    • May 27, 2014 at 7:03 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
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      Well, actually, we routinely defy gravity. Look up in the sky next time you are out and about.

      • May 28, 2014 at 8:08 am
        Destro says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        In what ways do we “defy gravity?”

        • May 28, 2014 at 8:26 am
          KY jw says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Airplanes. Space shuttles.

          • May 28, 2014 at 8:42 am
            Destro says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            That’s not defying gravity, that’s utilizing physics.

            Idiot.

          • May 28, 2014 at 11:08 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Yep, I got nothing so I’ll call them names.

          • May 28, 2014 at 1:07 pm
            Agent says:
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            Sorry KY, we haven’t had Space Shuttles for a while now and what goes up has to come down due to gravity.

          • May 28, 2014 at 1:28 pm
            KY jw says:
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            If you say so.

        • May 29, 2014 at 4:01 pm
          EmpoftheEarth says:
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          Politicians…politicians defy gravity since they are all full of hot air…they somehow dont float off..wish they would all go to space. Would help with the CO2 issue…

      • May 29, 2014 at 2:47 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
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        Destro, really…name calling? I actually know quite a bit about “climate gate.” Once *again*…tell me which scientist falsified data? Or to repeat myself, did you just make that up? Do you have a solitary shred of evidence for your assertion? I must say, you appear to be quite evasive.

  • May 27, 2014 at 3:17 pm
    alchemsit from bristol says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Do experts in the insurance Industry believe in Climate Change? “Carbon pollution from dirty energy is warming our planet. Just ask 97% of the top climate scientists in the world.” http://clmtr.lt/c/HKz0cc0cMJ

    • May 27, 2014 at 4:43 pm
      Destro says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Don’t worry about what that other 3% has to say. And be sure to ignore the fact that scientists in that 97% falsified numbers to achieve a desired result.

      • May 27, 2014 at 6:46 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Do you have a solitary shred of evidence that 97% of scientists falsified data? Or that even one scientist falsified data?

        • May 27, 2014 at 11:34 pm
          Dave says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          No, just a few scientist falsified the evidence on which 97% based their conclusions. If the evidence of man made global warming is so compelling, why ANY of the evidence have to be falsified.And if ANY of the evidence was falsified, how can we believe anything they say?

          • May 28, 2014 at 11:01 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Hmmmmmm. Sounds like Bush and those pesky WMD’s. And Congress and the American people fell for it.

            So I suppose you could be right with climate change.

          • May 28, 2014 at 9:39 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Which “few scientists” falsified data, and in what way would that have impacted any of the conclusions of the other 97%. What a thoroughly ridiculous comment. Show me evidence that a single scientist falsified data re climate change. Just one. Pick any one. Really.

          • May 29, 2014 at 10:03 am
            Destro says:
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            RBC, for someone who pretends to be so conscious about climate change issues you’re a pretty big idiot for not knowing literally anything about “climate-gate” or the FACT that there were scientists who falsified numbers/skewed data.

            Keep being told what to think and what not to think.

          • May 31, 2014 at 5:17 pm
            Destro says:
          • June 2, 2014 at 9:43 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            The following is what the scientists said. Does that sound like they were trying to “falsify data?” They simply admit they don’t have enough data. Do you have any other evidence, as you made the allegations prior to this release. “Consequently, there is either no, or only rudimentary, knowledge to support guesses about the possible abundance of polar bears in approximately half the areas they occupy. Thus, the range given for total global population should be viewed with great caution as it cannot be used to assess population trend over the long term.””

          • June 3, 2014 at 9:47 am
            Libby says:
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            Destro – it’s obvious from your comments that you don’t know the difference between an estimate and a fact. The number of polar bears was an estimate, not a hard and fast number. Therefore, no data was “falsified.” You’ll have to do better than that with a scientific source and not the Daily Caller.

          • June 4, 2014 at 9:05 am
            Dave says:
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            Libby, let me explain lying to you for your tiny little mind since you keep on bringing up WMD’s. I guess its the only thing you whacky lefties have.

            Flawed intelligence is what led to the statements about WMD’s in Iraq. Bush did not lie. Intelligence gathered by the US, Israel, UK, Germany, FRance and a host of other countries pointed to it. The intelligence was shared Senators Hillary Clinton and John Kerry who approved the war with Iraq. Got that? Does it sink in yet? Bush did not lie about the intelligence he got, he got bad intelligence and passed it on. Does the difference sink through that thick skull of yours? Although we may never know how bad that intelligence was as who is to say that the WMD’s in Syria didn’t come from Iraq?

            Now, examples or real lying.

            * If you like your medical plan, you can keep your medical plan. Period!
            * If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period!

            * And Benghazi. Within hours of the attack, GOOD intelligence showed that the attack was an organized terrorist attack and not the result of a protest about a video. But there was an election coming up. So Obama and EVERYBODY in his administration LIED about it and for weeks and said it was the result of a protest about a video. That is a documented lie. Got that?

            And you and your ilk tell us we need to trust the scientist who doctored data about global warming http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/
            And an administration who lies so often the press secretary finally decided he could lie no longer and quit.

          • June 4, 2014 at 9:28 am
            Libby says:
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            Dave – yes, I know that is the rhetoric spewed by the right and you are sticking to it.

            The “intellegience” was bad. And Bush knew it was bad. But he went forward anyway to put forth his own agenda.

            There is documented evidence about this that I have already provided on numerous occasions, but you and your ilk refuse to accept it.

        • May 28, 2014 at 8:10 am
          Destro says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          The fact that you don’t know about the falsified data speaks volumes about the ability of the left to ignore anything and everything that runs counter to their narrative.

          • May 28, 2014 at 11:01 am
            Libby says:
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            Ditto with Bush and WMD’s. Check and Mate!

          • May 28, 2014 at 1:56 pm
            bob says:
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            You are by far the most immature person on this site and the least educated.

            Bush did not fabricate WMD evidence.

            And WMDs were not the reason we went to war with Iraq.

            I will ask you again: Where was Osama Bin Laden found? How?

            It was intel that we obtained some time ago. We have been following him some time.

            Osama was in Iraq when we went in. It was one of a few things we said Saddam had to submit to. An inspection for Osama and his operatives, an inspection to make sure he was complying with the destruction of WMDs, and then also a demand he stop torturing his people.

            When he refused inspection on both WMD and Osama, we already knew Osama was there, and became suspicious on WMD. Why wouldn’t we? He has threatened to use them on us in he past.

            Bush W had nothing to do with the reports that followed from British intelligence detailing wmds.

            You need to get over this. It’s to the point of insanity. Bush W did the right thing with Iraq. Whether we utilized military correctly or not according to you (less than 10,000 deaths and we toppled a dictator who at one point did have wmds is pretty good in my book).

            Could we have done better? Maybe.

            You need to get over it. North Korea is worth remembering. Not Iraq.

          • May 28, 2014 at 2:10 pm
            bob says:
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            I suppose he also fabricated these two, and he tricked the entire US congres?

            http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ps9j22G9HLE

            http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBl0fnMUVc

            http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwqh4wQPoQk

            Either democrats are the biggest idiots in the world and do not deserve to govern Libby, or they were given a solid U.S. Report and then back petaled for political reasons.

            Either of those two, on such a serious matter as to a world threat on the later, or being that stupid on the former, makes them completely, absolutely, unfit to lead.

            Bush W wasn’t the worst president. He certainly spoke poorly against what was the worst democratic resurgence in U.S. history with the exception of FDR and Keelhaul for example, and Japanese internment camps in the U.S.

            But that’s just ok right?

            Republicans have done far worse according to you.

            And that segregation thing, and that slavery thing, coincidences that republicans as a percentage were universally more supportive of blacks. Sheer coincidence that they made a bill first for civil rights in 1957, coincidence that more of them as a percentage voted for it in 1964.

            Democrats have been about power a long time. Power over blacks, power over the people, power from something as dire as Iraq, (Bush W was not about power from Iraq). These guys need to be hog tied, thrown on the floor, and tossed out until they get the point:

            You. Will. Not. Govern. This. Country. Inappropriately.

          • May 28, 2014 at 2:17 pm
            Libby says:
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          • May 28, 2014 at 2:20 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            What supports Destro’s argument is this very simple fact:

            Why did they change it from:

            Scientists universally agree with global warming in the 90′s to early 2000′s.

            To:

            Scientists universally support climate change in the mid 2000′s to now?

            They either falsified or were incorrect on the data.

            My brother actually studied this and the answer is easy:

            Climate change is accurate. We can affect weather patterns (sorry to take a hit at you destro but we do)

            We won’t over heat the planet. We will change it though. Barren wastelands will become tropical and tropical areas will become barren. Our pollution (while we should be careful) will be hardest on third world countries that cannot adjust, but will not destroy the planet at all.

            Cutting down forests could doom us, and we should focus more on that. If we literally take out a forest not due to a climate change, then that forest is literally the only habitat in which forests will be. If forests stop growing somewhere due to climate, and grow somewhere else in place, we are at a net neutral change, an evolution of habitat rather than a structural change.

            I don’t see you taking up that fight.

            You are taking up the one that appeases your liberal indulgences, (and your high and mighty superiority complex with thinking you are more moral than others)

          • May 28, 2014 at 2:22 pm
            bob says:
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            Ah yes Libby,

            Blah blah blah.

            Your hate is a load of crap when it comes to WMDS.

            What do you think of the videos? Did Bush W fabricate that?

            Maybe he made Bill Clinton’s speech?

            You love and give passes to Clinton. Why? Because he bombed people instead of sending troops?

            In what world is bombing countries the high ground?

            You can lie all you want about Bush W’s role in Iraq and about WMDs in general, it just shows your hate filled life of crap.

            I said I was done arguing on morality in terms of government, and I will take religious arguments (on abortion and life issues) over governmental.

            In this case there is no religious argument for Bush W. There may be one against him depending on your opinion of war, which would put Obama on the same pedestal.

          • May 28, 2014 at 2:24 pm
            bob says:
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            Ah, the videos didn’t post.

            You’re in for a treat Libby.

            :)

            I always love to see democrats try to explain this away.

            Especially Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton.

            1998. It was a year of “what will we do with Iraq?”

            So was 1992. Al Gore also spoke of the fact that Iraq had WMDs back then, and that “Every” aspect of the report, not some, “Ever” aspect of the report dictated we needed to take military action.

            You have a horrible memory and analytical view on politics.

          • May 28, 2014 at 2:26 pm
            bob says:
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            I should say you’re in for a treat when they do.

            Insurance journal usually just puts a hold on posts with too many links.

            Wait for it.

            I posted three videos.

            Throw your tantrum about Bush W after watching it.

            You really do look like such a child and vindictive @%@ when it comes to Bush W.

            It proves you were at no point conservative in any way.

          • May 28, 2014 at 5:26 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Bob, good to see you back up and posting. Someone said that you had found Jesus and were no longer posting on IJ. By the way, KYjw was really worried that something had happened to you. I think some of the leftists on this forum are profoundly disappointed that you are back – kind of like Jack on “24″. You cut them no slack and run circles around them.

          • May 28, 2014 at 11:16 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            The fact that you believe that data were falsified speaks volumes about your credulity and willingness to believe anything in the right-wing noise machine. I know of the accusations from the denier crowd of falsification, all of which have been demonstrably false. Please cite a single credible source that a single scientist falsified data. Do you have evidence, or is this just slander?

          • May 29, 2014 at 12:20 pm
            Destro says:
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            I’m sorry that you can’t do a simple google search RBC or spend 30 seconds to find some info about it, but it happened. I’m sorry that you can’t deal with the possibility that people would “fudge the numbers” or falsify the data to achieve a desired result or push an agenda.

          • May 29, 2014 at 12:26 pm
            Destro says:
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            Great responses Bob. And to be clear, I’m not saying that humans don’t or can’t affect their environment. That is obvious. But the climate change crowd proselytizes like the planet will die in 3 years if we don’t do/pay whatever they want.

          • May 29, 2014 at 12:51 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            I did “find Jesus”.

            People like Libby demonize him, and then pretend they don’t. I really backed off so that I wouldn’t need to have a distraction while I did some things.

            Baptizing my kids was one.

            Getting in classes for Catholicism was another.

          • May 29, 2014 at 1:27 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            With how much Planet makes his bigoted comments that last comment must shock him, that I just baptized my kids (or got them involved and they became baptized rather).

            I’ve lived as an agnostic borderline atheist for too long.

            The only reason I didn’t commit to it, was people like Libby and Planet.

            Don’t you find it odd, how people have this need to insult religion?

            It’s like a call. A pull. I don’t believe that pull is fake. It comes from someone who wants you to fight god, and I think rather than ignoring it and saying life is about life, I think we should pause and think about “after” life.

            When I would debate with an atheist, as an agnostic, they would search for god in my comments, and would attack.

            I once debated why having adverse numbers of sexual partners could be bad to an atheist. He attacked of course, on the basis that I was against people’s freedoms and what does it matter how much sex people have? It is consensual and fun among two parties.

            Do you know how I argued?

            There is a chemical you release in your brain when you have sex. When you then leave that person, your brain simultaneously no longer wants to release it, because it keeps you attached to the person, and wants to, because you’re supposed to stay with that person. So out of survival, your brain finally inhibits that chemical.

            Enough times, and it is irreversible. You literally cannot attach. People with attachment issues literally have a chemical imbalance due to too much sex. I suffer from this personally.

            I took this argument, and I can’t tell you how many insults on zealotry and my religious background making me unreliable on my opinion were thrown out. I was told I only believed that because I still somewhere in my head believed in god.

            They wanted to find god, and remove him.

            And Libby does this same thing.

            Planet finds god in an argument, pointless, in comparison to government. He insults it. Seeks to attach it to those he wants to demonize.

            Something has to be causing this. It is a pull I have seen for too long.

            You might say the way I found God was by realizing the demonic pulls in my life.

            I believe I understand a bit more why the prodigal son has such potential: You know when you see evil when you have been around it so long. And unlike the people in this site seem to think, I’m not some conservative because of birth. I was born into liberalism. The lifestyle of these people…Is so innately about themselves, it is insane.

            For example:

            If in any point in your mind, you are willing to qualify life before you let that life live, (abortion) you are willing to qualify life in any circumstance (maybe this is why planet and libby qualify rights of the rich, or the worth of republican life)

            I am not going to qualify life based on it’s inconvenience to me. And I’m not going to let an abortionist then try to declare that they are better than me because they qualify life, and love it even more.

            Pro life. There’s a reason we call it that.

            It’s the most important belief that spawns all others, loving all life, regardless of circumstance. Love without conditions, love without requirement, love of all.

          • May 30, 2014 at 10:59 am
            KY jw says:
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            bob!!

            “There is a chemical you release in your brain when you have sex. When you then leave that person, your brain simultaneously no longer wants to release it, because it keeps you attached to the person, and wants to, because you’re supposed to stay with that person. So out of survival, your brain finally inhibits that chemical.

            Enough times, and it is irreversible. You literally cannot attach. ”

            Well, that is absolutely fascinating. Really! I wish I’d known this years ago, though. It explains so much.

          • May 30, 2014 at 7:01 pm
            bob says:
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            KY JW:

            I wish I had too.

            Like I said, I was not born into conservatism. My sexual partners in my history are alarmingly high.

            I forgot what the chemical is called, it has been some 10 years since that debate. It was around the start of my change to conservatism.

            I want to say dopamine (SP) but that one might not be it.

          • May 30, 2014 at 7:09 pm
            bob says:
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            Daestro:

            Then throw that out there man. They think you’re a tin foil hat, ford truck driving conservative. Or a hummer.

            My brother is a conservative as well these days, and his bumper sticker says “God Recycles. He made you from dust”.

            Don’t let them have a leg to stand on. First confirm that we all agree climate changes. Then argue with the scientists findings. The reports actually mirror what I said, and show the main issue with climate change is third world countries, and not the planet itself.

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:04 am
            Libby says:
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            There you go again, Bob. Posting novels of crap about how enlightened you are and everyone else is just clueless. You’re hysterical.

            You (and Destro) don’t know anything about what I believe, because you are too busy painting me with that big, fat, broad brush you have of liberals. You don’t listen. You don’t comprehend. It’s really pathetic.

            I never jumped on any climate change disaster bandwagon and dare either of you to find a post where I did.

            I do hate George Bush and that will never change. Similar to your views of Obama.

            And I am pro-choice and your religious arguments mean nothing to me, but that doesn’t mean I don’t believe in God. I think I have a faith much stronger than yours can ever be.

            I feel sorry for you both, because you are filled with hate and bitterness. I am not. (Except for Dubya)

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:10 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            There I go again with my enlightened attitude?

            Explain to me how you love people more than I do, when you justify killing a child, based on it’s level of difficulty of life, or it’s difficulty to the mother, etc? You have made yourself out to love women and humanity more than those evil pro lifers. You demonize them as enslaving women, whereas you actually are killing a child at worst, and are defying the creation your creator just gave you at best. Do you think your creator did that by accident? You defy your creator’s will when you abort a child. No ifs. No butts. No me me me. That is purely a philosophical out look on that one. Even though I said I won’t take non-religious arguments it is a technically philosophical reasoning on a religious topic.

            You don’t respect a poor life. I lived one as a child. And I would choose that over not to live.

            If your religion is so deep, you would know you don’t create children. And the moment a life is created it is no accident.

            Being pro choice means pro willing to weight the value of life. Whether you want to admit it or not.

            You have consistently been proven wrong on George W Bush. You have not said one point against him that held water, and when I brought up his retirement plans you finally said you would like them and it was merely about the image they portray. Then I told you that’s the image democrats like you portray. You almost openly admitted that if they are how I say they are you would want them in office but you can’t trust (Romney) and you still (without reason) hate Bush W. So it isn’t and can’t be about him. You don’t just hate him. You hate conservatism, but more importantly Libby, it really does come down to rebelling against God. You choose the social non issues here, that end up spitting in the face of God, because it is “edgy” and “hip” as you say at least you have style eh? While you slap your God in the face? You hate conservatism far more than I “hate” liberalism. In reality, I actually tend to have weakness when it comes to hating “stupidity”.

            If you knew about how I was raised you might know why. I have gone on record complimenting liberals I know.

            I have also stated I support various laws Obama has passed. There is a difference between knowing when someone is a bad president, and a bad person. Obama is just a man. I think that’s what you don’t get. You rely far too much on your party allegiances and titles, and the black and white wars.

            I do not care for them Libby!

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:36 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – you are not the world authority on Christianity, religion, or God. Therefore, your beliefs are not important to me. You are entitled to them, but you are not entitled to try to force them on me or judge me by them. Totally not cool and totally not Christian.

            You are not qualified to, nor have the right to, tell me what I think, believe, love, or value. You know nothing about me.

            Your views are not important to me and I do not embrace them. So save your breath, and your outrageous rants, and leave me and my faith alone.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:05 pm
            bob says:
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            JW:

            I do hope you’re paying attention to this current conflict with Libby and I.

            This is the exact reason I never have good convos with her.

            But moreover: See what happens when religion is discussed?

            Realizing the demonic influences in my life and my own personal issues is a lot of the source of my knowledge. Not the strength of my choices. I am very pleased with that. Being able to change.

            Now she’s saying that I have Fads. Before I was a stubborn conservative, and now I have fads.

            And saying I lived a bad life is apparently holier than thou.

            I hope you see why I don’t get along with her.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:08 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – do you think KY cares if we get along or not? I’m happy you are changing. I just don’t appreciate you judging me based on your beliefs. There is nothing Christian about that. Judge not, lest ye… Well, you know.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:48 pm
            bob says:
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          • June 3, 2014 at 2:53 pm
            bob says:
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          • June 3, 2014 at 2:57 pm
            Libby says:
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            You arrogant turd. How dare YOU tell ME about MY God. You have no idea what I believe. Go fuck yourself.

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:03 pm
            Libby says:
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            So KY agrees with you and is nice to you and all of a sudden you know all about her?

            You are judging and I will not stand for it. I have not done that to you, although I certainly could have many times.

            I supported you when you poured out your back story and did not say one single negative thing about you or your past (or present) choices. And boy, oh boy, I sure could have.

            It has only been you telling me how I am wrong. So don’t get it twisted, Bob.

            We have argued about politics and social issues before and that is perfectly fine. But when you come on here and tell me who I should worship and how I should worship, I have to draw the line.

            My God is my own and is of no concern to you. Worship how, who, whenever you want, but don’t tell me what I should or shouldn’t believe.

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:40 pm
            bob says:
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          • June 3, 2014 at 3:44 pm
            bob says:
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          • June 3, 2014 at 3:58 pm
            bob says:
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          • June 3, 2014 at 4:07 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – this IS all wrong. Because you have made it that way.

            I never said the bible is a dangerous path. I said you think you can speak for God and that is a dangerous path. Very close to blashphemy. In fact, I think you think you ARE God. Dangerous, my friend.

            WAnd wat I said before is I have my own relationship with God. It is not based on any book, although I do think all of them have the same, good messages. I do not purport to be of Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or any other religion, although I have studied many of them. Through that, I have found my faith and believe in God. That’s all I will say about it, because you would not understand any further. You are still stuck in the days of the Spanish inquisition.

            Regarding abortion, it is not life until the fetus can sustain itself outside the womb. That is my position and I believe it. You think otherwise.

            Yes, God created man so he created life. However, the fetus is created when two people have sexual relations and the sperm meets the egg. I thought they would have taught you that in school.

            You say God created life, but not homosexuals? How is that even possible? God created everything.

            And yes, you said KY “was a better person than both of us.” So it appears you know all about her.

            And lastly, this nice act is just that. An act. You still think you have the right to tell others what they should and shouldn’t think, put words in their mouth, and twist what they say to serve your own purpose. Very disingenuous and dishonest.

            Have I missed anything? If so, please read my response again, carefully, before responding because I’m pretty sure I nailed it all.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:15 pm
            Libby says:
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            Just when did I ever say I acted in God’s name? I am not so arrogant as to ever say that. I have outlined my position about abortion above. We will have to agree to disagree because I will not continue to have this conversation with you.

            It has to do with science and not with God. You will not accept that. So be it. Leave it alone.

            It’s not a point that can be proved, only believed. If God rejects me for it, then He is not the God I believe in and I guess I am screwed. But my faith does not allow me to think that. Yours does, because you have a vengeful and hateful God. I do not.

            I also do not need the fear of hell in order to lead a good life. You do.

            You tell me how to worship when you tell me I am going against God when in reality I am going against YOUR idea of God. That is arrogant, self-righteous, and judgemental behavior and it is NOT Christian.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:31 pm
            bob says:
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            So now I need to fear hell, because I believe when god makes a child he meant it?

            Suddenly you seem a lot more “religious” than me.

            I don’t see myself as God, and I’m not going to keep defending that attack. It’s pointless to debate on it. I give examples, I give ideas, I ask you questions, and this makes me God?

            I have said several times my religion is the religion of others. I take what theologians from 2000 years take from the bible. You have many times said you don’t follow the bible. You’re clearly afraid because it was “made by man”. So what do you follow? You. Gut instincts. It is the God of your head. You haven’t clearly said why you do anything that you do, except that it has nothing to do with the bible.

            Regarding your close intimate relationship with god:

            It is a child once god creates it. You say it isn’t until the child can support itself that it is a child. You think God has that viewpoint? That until something can support itself he shouldn’t create it? The life was created by your god. If you believe in god you cannot side step that. Your god. Created. All children. There are no mistakes.

            I argue with your logics, not against them. You believe. So you say. You say it’s intimate. So you say. Well, intimate believer, the above statement is an absolute if you believe in god.

            I don’t have a desire to debate further. You are no Christian. You are a charlatan. This is why I refused debates with you before.

            Children are the most important in this world. And you charlatan, oppose your God, while claiming you are in the right. You call me a god because I tell you that God wanted that child born?

            How dare you! You are the one declaring yourself above god, who gave you and others those children, the most vulnerable in the world at conception, and you think yourself the superior for being for the right to choose?

            I have literally seen you with disgust against those who don’t let the “woman choose”. Well god doesn’t let you choose either. You get pregnant, he made the kid. Hate to put this in your face, but when you get pregnant it is then your choice against god, and we already see which you choose, in your intimate relationship with your creator.

            Now leave. I am done with your voodoo.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:37 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – if you had been paying attention I already told you I don’t purport to be a Christian.

            If you believe I am a charlatan, go for it. I know it’s a character defect, but I really don’t care.

            You are a looney tune.

          • June 3, 2014 at 8:19 pm
            bob says:
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            You claim to believe in god.

            If you believe in god you are more or less christian, unless you are lying, loony toon.

            And if you believe in God, god creates all.

            Again, you either believe or you don’t. And god doesn’t accidentally make a child.

            Therefore, no matter the religion, if a god exists, you are declaring yourself god by advocating the death of the being god made. It is the way it works.

            Admit you don’t believe. This is crazy. You refuse to. IF you believed, you would believe god made the kid and killing it or terminating pregnancy is directly in violation of a being that made you pregnant.

          • June 3, 2014 at 9:12 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob,

            You purport to be a Christian but you don’t even know what that means. It means you believe in Jesus. I believe inGod. There is a difference. Study more grasshopper.

          • June 4, 2014 at 9:59 am
            Libby says:
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            I read your first link. (Don’t have time to read them all.) I don’t know if “falsifying” data is entirely accurate, as they did explain why they did what they did and the addition of the .3mm adds only 1 inch sea level rise over the entire century. Hardly “alarming”.

            However, whether sea level is rising or not, the glacial ice is melting. That is not in dispute by any of the scientists I saw regarding this issue.

            What they are saying is the land masses are rising, so the oceans are holding more water. OK, maybe not a crises for disappearing shorelines, but certainly it does not prove that there is not warming that is melting the polar icecap. In fact, it substantiates that claim.

            And before you go off on me, Dave, I am not a climate change fanatic nor a scientist. I am trying to look at the data objectively.

          • June 4, 2014 at 11:59 am
            Agent says:
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            Some good ones Dave. The climate change dudes out there are full of lies about what is going on. Admissions of falsifying data apparently don’t mean anything to many on this forum.

          • June 4, 2014 at 12:29 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            I read the first link, and as is pretty much the case with every single baseless accusation by the denialists, this is complete without merit as well (as would be expected since it came from the right-wing Koch funded Heartland institute). The adjustments made to estimated sea-level rise are standard, and well accepted in the scientific literature. I really don’t think I’ll waste my time on the remainder of the links. i hope many more climate scientists go the route of Michael Mann and start suing these media rags for libel /slander. “Expert: “There Should Be Nothing Controversial About The Necessity Of Making This Correction.” W.R. Peltier, University of Toronto physicist and director of the Centre for Global Change Science published research in 2001 and in subsequent years showing that the correction was necessary. In an email, Peltier stated that the adjustment “has always been included in the analyses” conducted by “the leading European scientist working in this area” and “there should be nothing controversial about the necessity of making this correction”

          • June 4, 2014 at 12:40 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            I read another link just for entertainment. It links to another Heartland fake scandal the deniers call Kiwigate. This surfaced on 2010 on right-wing sites, and has long ago been debunked as well. All these people have is slander and libel.

    • May 28, 2014 at 10:24 am
      EmpoftheEarth says:
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      Climategate…this was the center of global warming research that greenies relied on in their foot stomping.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html

      • May 28, 2014 at 1:31 pm
        KY jw says:
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        You really like this article, don’t you?

        (not that it really matters, but I do remember that crap hit the fan when the falsified data was exposed)

        • May 29, 2014 at 2:53 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          Yeah..once again, no data were falsified. Numerous independent investigations were conducted. *all* of them fully exonerated the scientists in question. Fully and completely. Absolutely nothing in the stolen emails suggests in the slightest that data were falsified; or even that anybody did anything unethical. Of course, the *evidence* won’t hinder your contrary beliefs in the slightest, just as it doesn’t on the issue of climate change.

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:06 am
            Libby says:
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            RBC – evidence will not sway the deluded neocons. Don’t confuse them with facts. Just point them in Rush Limbaugh’s direction and they will follow. Just like the sheeple they are.

        • May 29, 2014 at 3:04 pm
          Agent says:
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          Good post Bob. I am glad for you. Some on this site love to run down people who believe in God and the afterlife. They are going to get a surprise one day and it won’t be pleasant. I have always been a bit puzzled about Catholics. We know they are pro-life and believe that every life is precious and yet they continue to vote for liberals who are the biggest pro abortion advocates around, put in birth control, abortions, the pill into Obamacare. What is the appeal for Progressive Democrats who are ruining the economy, don’t know how to run anything, ruined the VA, bad economic policy etc, etc,etc. They should have awakened from their slumber by now, but apparently not yet.

          • May 29, 2014 at 3:51 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            Funny you mention that, because I pointed out to Planet and Libby once that same statistic. The majority of Catholics are democrat, when they were insulting religion.

            The reason for this is laws. It is very hard for the church to give their opinion on candidates or issues that would lead to a candidate. They can lose their tax exempt status.

            The church does have an official statement that voting for anyone regardless of party who supports abortion is a mortal sin.

            They say in a guide what is most important in voting, and they even point out that the argument on who is better with the poor is a valid one, so it cannot take the absolute argument on whether or not murder of children is ok off the table. They explain abortion issues are first, social issues come last. They have terms for it, that are rather beautiful and structured.

            You should look it up. I don’t have the links readily available but they really toe the line in a way not to break the law, and say it in a way that shows why living a poor life is what Jesus praises, and that taking that right away from a child in order to provide for the poor who Jesus praises is a grave sin.

            There are a lot of Catholics who are second and third generation. Greater than 70% of the church in it’s people are not good Catholics.

            You should search for the Catholic converts. They are just wow.

          • May 29, 2014 at 4:32 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            Here, this should show what I mean:

            http://catholiceducation.org/articles/politics/pg0062.html

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:09 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – I DARE you to find one post where Captain has insulted religion. You can’t. He is a devout Christian. Once again, the reading comprehension of Republicans is deplorable.

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:22 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            pre qualifying,

            “religious” zealot.

            He does not post without saying it.

            He does not post without saying a bunch of rich white christian men want to determine what women do in the bed room, by being pro life. To justify killing a child, he throws first religion in the face of the religious, and calls them an aggressor.

            Planet is plainly against religion. I have debated with him on it, and there is no debate. He actually blamed racism on churches.

            I have not forgotten that fight.

            You two do rebel against any public display of your god.

            The bible both says being gay is wrong, and clearly says that sexually immoral who practice it will go to hell. It also says clearly the biggest sin is against yourself with sexual sin. It also says judge not. However, it also says if a brother sins, call him out, if he rejects you, bring another, if he rejects the two of you, bring a priest, if he rejects that, he is lost.

            The answer is YES.

            Not one or the other. You do the “judge not”.

            Why do you think we exist if we are not to influence each other?

            We are to not judge, but to love, and then also to inform them their action is harmful.

            The answer is that being gay actually harms them. That’s why they shouldn’t do it. You believe they are experiencing love. They are in fact robbing themselves of it.

            When you are married as a couple, without birth control, nothing beats the surprise of birth. Realizing things in a fury as your pregnant wife progresses. As you raise a child together. You are clueless. This is the life god wants for all. It is why gay love isn’t love.

            But when someone spreads the word about real love:

            You call people homophobes and defend what is robbing that homosexual of the best love they can have. You distract the word, and corrupt the believer until they take your argument, and thus argue per your pre conceived notion. I know how one falls on both sides libby.

            You know what I do?

            First: Love no matter what.

            Second: Show them that they will never experience a love like the experience of getting pregnant, having a child, and staying with the mother indefinitely. Show them that men and women ARE different, not the same, and that a life together has benefits that you will not have with a same sex couple.

            And I never lie and say yeah, you’re ok when they come up and randomly say that they have a life with just as much love. I smile and say “you could have so much more”.

            Look at that as me being high and mighty all you want.

            It’s roses and rainbows in my world these days. And all I see is you causing conflicts, miss deeply religious. I don’t want to be involved in your God’s religion.

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – please brush up on your reading comprehension. At NO TIME did I EVER say I was RELIGIOUS. I said I have a strong faith in my God. I also told you the bible is a book written by man and has been distorted and twisted by man over the ages. You believe what you want to about what the bible says, but don’t quote it to me. Or bring me another. Or bring me a priest.

            You actually believe you can speak for God? Your audacity is boundless. You are on a dangerous path and I will pray for your soul.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:08 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            So God is a mythical person in your head,

            For which you have the decision of right and wrong,

            And from which you now have the need to pray for me,

            And to berate me,

            And insult me.

            And I’m on a dangerous path?

            Yes. Of course. The bible is morally sound. Everything I just listed is pretty good.

            Acknowledge bad, don’t judge it. There is another spot that says do not insult it. One says to intervene, and if you fail let them go.

            It is a path that ensures you:

            A: Can help someone by talking to them.
            B: Do not condemn someone while talking to them.
            C: It acnkoweleges the reasons why homosexual behavior harms people. And it does. You ignore such things.
            D: It ensures you will have no power over the thought of God.

            If the biblical concept is strong I will follow it.

            You imply that my following this book will harm people.

            How?

            What in what I said harms people?

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:09 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby:

            Should be a E:

            That if you cannot help someone you actually get rid of the bad influence in your life.

            Live and let live.

            You will only disconnect when the god in your head says so.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:14 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – I never said you following the bible will harm anyone. I don’t know where you get these crazy thoughts of yours. If the bible and your religion bring you peace and happiness, then I am glad. And have told you as much before.

            I do not, however, like you sitting in judgement of me just because my views are different than yours. You have tried to show me the errors of my ways and have fulfilled your requirement of testifying. Now, give it a rest. It is unwelcomed and unaccepted.

            I prefer to keep my “religious” beliefs, my faith, my spiritualism between me and my God. I do not have a need to prosthelytize, as you do. Good is done by the works themselves, not by broadcasting them to others. It is self-serving and un-Christian to do so.

            So do not judge me and we’ll get along just fine.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:16 pm
            Libby says:
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            E. “That if you cannot help someone you actually get rid of the bad influence in your life.”

            I thought you’d already done that with me…

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:41 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            I’m not debating with you to keep you in my life.

            I do not know why you are so angry. What exactly happened recently?

            I care about you as a human. This is over the top Libby, and you know it.

            I don’t mean to be mean, but I was on here talking to Agent and giving him realizations I had, JW heard it and it affected her.

            It reminded me the reason I debate here is for people so see truth.

            My debate with you right now is so that people will see right from wrong for themselves. The same debates I used to. And see what is happening to God in today’s society when you talk about such an important being and realizations involving God.

            Calm down. I’m not in the mood for a fight.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:44 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Excuse me? I wasn’t testifying to you.

            I was posting to others and you went full attack because I offended your honor when I brought up how much you attack religion. The best way to prove me wrong after all, it to attack religion.

            If that’s your requirement I have fulfilled your requirements. If you want to debate religion then continue.

            This is old. You are just not used to ever being told your ideals may be in error.

            You aren’t always right Libby.

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:07 pm
            Libby says:
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            Neither are you, Bob.

            And Agent only made that comment because I had told KY in another post that you had found religion and cast me out of your life.

            I’d like to keep it that way from now on.

            If you continue, I will know it is only to get a rise out of me. And you will.

            If you haven’t been able to tell by now, no-one on here appreciates your preaching. That’s why they all left but me. It is not the place for that. Take it to church and leave it off of IJ,

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:50 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            No one being KY JW who just realized from my comment a pretty important aspect of permisciouty?

            Yes Libby. Of course. What my life has been, and what I have learned, has place everywhere. Even barring the fact that you constantly make a mockery of it here. If religion and my life doesn’t belong in arguments, why have you put it there even when I was an agnostic? If it doesn’t belong in arguments don’t put it there yourself.

            Don’t throw back the “You’re not right always either” at me. I am not becoming Catholic how the “god in my head” tells me to. I’m studying 2000 years of theology, and I will listen to those who have knowledge, AKA Agent the protestant, or professors. You bluntly said you don’t care. As soon as someone doesn’t follow the god in your head you don’t care.

            I don’t argue to get a rise out of you. It is to thoroughly stop the influence you have in the world and people like you.

            You’re a very angry person since I’m talking like this.

            Again: Think about why. You’re being called. You don’t have to answer the devil’s call.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            Give it a rest Bob. I am not an angry person. I am angry at you for telling me how and what to believe about God. You don’t have the right.

            And, if you want my honest opinion, I think KY had a little sarcasm in her response to you because it was ridiculous. A chemical that makes you not want to leave the person? Or whatever BS you posted. Ludicrous.

            Almost as ludicrous as “the devil made me do it.” LOL!!! I thought Flip Wilson was dead.

            I am not so (there’s that word again) ARROGANT to think my posts on here influence anyone. But you sure do. Get over yourself. You’re not that interesting nor is your message a new one.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:36 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            It is funny to see your reactions to my comments, and then hear you say they are not new arguments.

            Conservatives do not argue like me.

            Christians don’t either.

            Dopamine. It is not absurd. There is a chemical when it comes to attachment in society. Pleasure chemicals. Sex is pleasurable. You actually release dopamine outside of sex after you have sex the first time.

            Then when you experience pain, the chemical keeping you attached is dopamine. Your body then experiences intense pain. There’s a reason they say “the first time is the deepest” it’s a song too.

            It is. First relationships with first sex are. After that point when you finally detach, your body is less willing to produce dopamine from sex.

            I find it funny you would debate this one. Look it up. I don’t have the time or energy to get into it with you.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            To answer your question, I think God should be left out of ALL discussions. It is a highly personal and passionate subject that certainly doesn’t belong in an insurance or political debate.

            Using it is a dishonest form of debate.

          • June 3, 2014 at 8:23 pm
            bob says:
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            No, it isn’t.

            To remove god is the dishonest form of debate.

            To use the interjection and intimidation, and then state that religion is a means to a distraction is dishonest.

            You believe in god as a secondary, and a possible block, and you refuse to acknowledge that god makes babies. I mean really.

            The truth is you don’t truly believe, and you should just realize that and then actually seek god. It isn’t a matter of keeping god out of everything (which I already said you did, and you dishonestly refused that you did).

            That is how we get to bad decisions, against god.

            God exists. If he exists, dedicate your life to him. Not the perception of others.

          • June 3, 2014 at 8:39 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby:

            Let’s go full circle:

            “To answer your question, I think God should be left out of ALL discussions. It is a highly personal and passionate subject that certainly doesn’t belong in an insurance or political debate.

            Using it is a dishonest form of debate.”

            You said this.

            My original comment was sharing an experience and part of said this regarding you:

            ““I took this argument, and I can’t tell you how many insults on zealotry and my religious background making me unreliable on my opinion were thrown out. I was told I only believed that because I still somewhere in my head believed in god.

            They wanted to find god, and remove him.

            And Libby does this same thing.

            Planet finds god in an argument, pointless, in comparison to government. He insults it. Seeks to attach it to those he wants to demonize.

            Something has to be causing this. It is a pull I have seen for too long.”

            Particular emphasis on:

            “They wanted to find god, and remove him.

            And Libby does this same thing.”

            I have reached my limit with you Libby!

            You used the phrase I said to mock me and insult me, and then finally, full circle, after claiming you have a passionate belief in god (I guess that was dishonest of you to say) you then say exactly what I said was your goal in arguments, to remove god from all arguments.

            You are not deeply religious. You want god out of everything.

            You are not passionate on your belief in God.
            You abject his will with his creations (abortion)
            And moreover, I can give as many life stories as I want.

            I don’t have to put them away deep in a corner. For being liberal, that is awfully conservative and I have spoken about this very action from many liberals. It is common. Get in the box, put that in the corner. The same thing you claim you are freeing the people on, you control them regarding. Freedom of religion, freedom from religion eh Libby? All too literal, no freedom until religion is gone?

            You got your tail feathers ruffled because I had the audacity to say that you don’t want god in convos, and then you yell at me and confirm it, telling me I judged you by saying it?

            Geez. Do you not clearly see I was right to begin with, it was perfectly fair to say, and Satan inside you called you?

            He did. You obviously don’t freak out like that on other topics. It is only with regards to religion because you have been marked, owned, and claimed.

            Maybe you need to focus on that. It is because of stuff like this that I believe. By “seeing the demonic forces” in my own life.

            Watching them come forth, like you, and spew hatred.

          • June 3, 2014 at 9:18 pm
            Libby says:
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            Maybe you think if you talk in circles enough people will start agreeing with you. I’m way too smart for you Bob. You make no sense and sound like the nut you are. Go away. You and you religious zealotry have no place here. You spew nothing but rhetoric and nonsense.

          • June 3, 2014 at 9:24 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Let me repeat:

            You told me that you got into this fight because I offended your religion.

            That was my original comment, copied and pasted, the one you freaked out on.

            I said that you seek to remove god from all conversations.

            You then said yourself, god doesn’t belong in any conversations.

            You think you can just come in here, belligerent, accusing me of being an aggressor when I basically was spot on? I said Libby (you) doesn’t like god in conversations and you retaliated before admitting you don’t.

            How much more wrong do you have to be and how much more simple do I have to be?

            You. Are. Owned. If you don’t realize by now the vomit coming out of your mouth was a calling and a mark you are out of your mind.

            I’ll say it again:

            Libby doesn’t want god in conversations agent.

            Now go ahead and attack me, and tell me that it makes sense.

          • June 3, 2014 at 9:30 pm
            bob says:
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            Spin it all you want libby:

            My original comment:

            “““I took this argument, and I can’t tell you how many insults on zealotry and my religious background making me unreliable on my opinion were thrown out. I was told I only believed that because I still somewhere in my head believed in god.

            They wanted to find god, and remove him.

            And Libby does this same thing.

            Planet finds god in an argument, pointless, in comparison to government. He insults it. Seeks to attach it to those he wants to demonize.

            Something has to be causing this. It is a pull I have seen for too long.”

            How many times do I have to point this out?

            This is why you berated me.

            You can complicate it all you want.

            “““I took this argument, and I can’t tell you how many insults on zealotry and my religious background making me unreliable on my opinion were thrown out. I was told I only believed that because I still somewhere in my head believed in god.

            They wanted to find god, and remove him.

            And Libby does this same thing.

            Planet finds god in an argument, pointless, in comparison to government. He insults it. Seeks to attach it to those he wants to demonize.

            Something has to be causing this. It is a pull I have seen for too long.

            Make another comment libby, say another lie. Go ahead and let satan work through you. Justify your attack, but as I said before:

            ““I took this argument, and I can’t tell you how many insults on zealotry and my religious background making me unreliable on my opinion were thrown out. I was told I only believed that because I still somewhere in my head believed in god.

            They wanted to find god, and remove him.

            And Libby does this same thing.

            Planet finds god in an argument, pointless, in comparison to government. He insults it. Seeks to attach it to those he wants to demonize.

            Something has to be causing this. It is a pull I have seen for too long.”

            How many times do I have to repeat it libby? My original statement that contained nothing of harm, nothing against your religion? I judged you?

            You admitted it, in your last comment:

            ““To answer your question, I think God should be left out of ALL discussions. It is a highly personal and passionate subject that certainly doesn’t belong in an insurance or political debate.

            Using it is a dishonest form of debate.”

            You said that.

            How many times do I have to put it in front of you?

            Does Satan have you in this much of a hold? You believe you were right even now, with the statements in front of you?

            You don’t believe Satan is why you are this convinced despite logic, that I went after you?

            I professed an experience, and talked about god, and those who attack him and went him absent.

            ““To answer your question, I think God should be left out of ALL discussions. It is a highly personal and passionate subject that certainly doesn’t belong in an insurance or political debate.

            Using it is a dishonest form of debate.””

            You said this. Admit it. Stop hiding. I from the beginning was talking about the harm of removing god from life. Recognize the demons in your life.

            You are marked, owned, signed for. Stop heeding the call.

          • June 4, 2014 at 8:40 am
            Libby says:
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            I think you are the one possessed here, Bob. You keep taking my words and twisting them to your benefit.

            I said, inferred, meant, and later clarified God should be kept out of arguments on IJ about politics and insurance. You know that’s what I meant and still you try to twist my words. It won’t work because I won’t let you.

            You are nuttier than a fruitcake and always have been. LEAVE ME ALONE. You’re starting to frighten me.

      • June 4, 2014 at 7:02 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
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        Yeah, climategate really kind of fizzled, to live on only on the right-wing blogosphere. For actual science, I’d recommend the site run by noted climatologist Gavin Schmidt, RealClimate. As they noted back in 2010: “but as we predicted, no inquiries found anyone guilty of misconduct, no science was changed and no papers retracted.” – See more at: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2010/11/one-year-later/#sthash.ZNKXyS9w.dpuf

  • May 27, 2014 at 3:55 pm
    Whodathunkit? says:
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    I am a believer in “climate change”. I just choose to call it winter, spring summer and fall.

    • May 27, 2014 at 6:47 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Wow. You don’t appear to understand what the term “climate” means.

      • May 28, 2014 at 8:17 am
        Destro says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        No, you don’t.

        • May 28, 2014 at 9:40 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          You understand that seasonal variation is not climate, right?

          • May 29, 2014 at 12:28 pm
            Destro says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            You understand that you’re an idiot, right?

          • May 30, 2014 at 9:20 am
            Reality_based_community says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            I’ll admit that at least one of us is an idiot.

          • June 1, 2014 at 8:18 am
            Destro says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            SO CLEVER!!!

          • June 2, 2014 at 9:45 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Slightly more clever than your oft-repeated “you are an idiot” line.

    • May 29, 2014 at 4:53 pm
      Agent says:
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      Good article Bob. I think you are right that 70%+ of all Catholics are not good Catholics because they keep voting for people that support abortions (Pro Choice). Nancy Pelosi is the worst example of a Catholic who advocates abortion big time and put it in Obamacare. She should have been excommunicated many years ago by the church. I could just see her at confession. Father, forgive me for I have sinned and put abortion into my healthcare bill. She thinks she gets absolution for every sin although I doubt she ever goes to Mass. I do know a lot of good Catholics who live by the principles of the church and they are good people. They are staunchly against abortion and against Progressive Liberalism.

      • May 29, 2014 at 5:18 pm
        bob says:
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        I think what makes them bad Catholics is relying on democrats to do charity for them.

        They literally think they help the poor by voting democrat, so much so, that they are willing to kill children, or if they don’t believe they are killing, deny God’s gift of a child. Mortal sin takes knowledge after all, so if you don’t believe you are killing you surely must realize God gave you pregnancy, and you are rejecting it.

        The bible actually says that any form of charity that is forced (taxes) is not a form of charity. These catholic democrats, in an even worse show of lack of charity when voting democrat, are getting that money from the wealthy, and are spiteful of the wealthy. Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, applies to the wealthy. Stealing is wrong. Period. Even from the rich.

        I didn’t know Nancy Pelosi was Catholic…I haven’t paid attention to Catholicism since I was a kid.

        She wouldn’t be allowed communion is my guess. For example, priests are not allowed to give communion to non repentant sinners, so as such, an Arch Bishop some time ago said John Kerry is not allowed to receive communion, and then Kerry blasted the church for making that “attack”. I suppose the Church must submit to evil these days. I am shocked that fake Catholics are more concerned with what their friends think about their religion, than what their religion (God) thinks about them and their friends. They are more concerned with image than evil.

        It’s insane.

        • June 2, 2014 at 10:13 am
          Libby says:
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          Bob – Religion does NOT equal God. Get your f’ing facts straight you born-again moron.

          And pro-choice does NOT equal pro-abortion. If you could comprehend what you read, you would know that choice is not the same word as abortion. Dolt.

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:25 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            It was an expression designed for affect, people care more about what people think about their religion than following any God. It is accurate. I see I have riled you up. I called the satan right out of you eh?

            Relax, I’m being edgy like you.

            But on point, pro choice is pro abortion. You can’t be pro choice in terms of genocide can you? You KNOW it is a child, and you KNOW your god made it. There is from there no pro choice or middle ground.

            You can’t say you love that life while you are not willing to fight for it’s survival, and in fact encourage it’s death, and argue politically against those who seek to save it calling them zealots.

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:45 pm
            Libby says:
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            Would you prefer nutjob to zealot? Both seem applicable here.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:11 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            When you’re seeking out that and think religion causes it?

            No. I would not prefer a word change.

            A nut job will be a nut job. It is never due to religion. It is due to their own personal character defect.

            I won’t demean religion or god by attaching religion to it.

            Should I call people who do bad and say god told them to, God nut jobs?

            No. They aren’t doing what God tells them to, should I say that God just makes people do that? No. It would insult God. God made religion Libby. And you’re insulting his creation and him.

            Religious nut jobs aren’t following religion. They are actually twisting it. A nut job is a nut job.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:22 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about, as usual. God did not create religion. Man did. There are tons of “religious zealots” (men) out there that do horrible things in the name of God. Wars are fought and people killed in the name of God and religion.

            I do not need religion to tell me what is right and what is wrong. “Do amongst others as you would have them do unto you.” Pretty much sums it all up for me. Don’t need a bible, koran, torah, or any other “religious” tome to tell me that.

            How arrogant of you to think that your relision is the only one with God’s word.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:31 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            You are beyond words.

            You want me to be that way. So you can attack. The person who believes only my religion is the right one.

            But you, how dare you, come up with wrong and right from your own head as you said!

            I never said which religion had to be followed, and I am not mistaking religion from god and that religion was made by man.

            My point is actually against drawing the conclusion that religion is causing anything. Man is. Religion doesn’t create itself. So the man who corrupts it is at fault. Not religion.

            You wouldn’t say someone who was being crazy was acting in God’s name. It’s insulting to do so.

            We don’t need to precursor religious nut job. Nut job suffices. The only reason to precursor religious, is you have an issue with religion.

            If you can’t follow, it’s just that you aren’t thinking this through.

            You are looking for an enemy in me, due to my religious profession (not task, but rather statement profession) and you don’t think maybe, maybe you’re over the top?

            And maybe, maybe that pull you feel in your head,

            Telling you to throw the bible out the window, it’s evil,

            And telling you to fight with me while I’m seeking peace,

            Is coming from somewhere?

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:55 pm
            Libby says:
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            OK, Bob. That tears it. You must be schizophrenic because I quote:

            “God made religion Libby. And you’re insulting his creation and him.”

            Your exact words as written above.

            “God did not create religion. Man did.” My exact words. It’s you that can’t keep up.

            And telling me I am wrong because I do not believe what the bible says is not only judgemental, but indicates the bible is the only real word of God and your religion is the only true religion. ARROGANT FOOL.

            You are not seeking peace. You attacked me first on this blog. And since I don’t believe in the devil, I certainly doubt he’s on my left shoulder in his red suit whispering in my ear. You really are a simpleton.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:05 pm
            bob says:
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          • June 3, 2014 at 4:33 pm
            Libby says:
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            OMG. Help save me from Bob!

            Religion is man’s belief in God. It was never created by God. Man created religion in an attempt to answer questions that have no answers.

            I had a nun tell me once that it’s not, “I’ll believe it when I see it.” It’s, “I’ll see it when I believe it.” That is the meaning of faith.

            I have faith. I believe in God. I also believe in science and don’t think the two contradict each other. You obviously do because you seem to speak like you are back in the dark ages. God made man and gave him a brain so he could learn the wonders of the world, including science.

            God does not make mistakes. You obviously think he does. And he has pain. And he misses us. You sound more like you are talking more about man than God and yet you tell me my “religion” is made up in my head. My idea of God is so grand you would not be able to comprehend it. God is everything or he is nothing.

            Try reading “The Sermon on the Mount” if you want to learn a little about my God.

          • June 3, 2014 at 6:02 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, are you trying to perform an exorcism with Libby? It isn’t working. She is already spitting pea soup.

          • June 4, 2014 at 8:49 am
            Libby says:
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            You have broken your promise to me Agent. Don’t you dare have the audacity to call anyone else a liar on this forum again.

      • May 29, 2014 at 5:36 pm
        Agent says:
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        Bob, you are right. Democrats keep promising they are helping the poor, but every program they have keep the poor from advancing and they like to keep the entitlements rolling. Keep the poor dumbed down, dependent and keep voting Democrat. Good Catholics should realize that government solutions do not work and charity begins at home. I play in a Catholic charity golf tournament every year (even though I am Protestant). They do good work locally to help the poor.

        • May 29, 2014 at 5:49 pm
          bob says:
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          Agent,

          Good for you. I want to get into something like this.

          But even more so I want to get involved in the prison work. I guess I relate to it in some ways. I have had a lot of darkness in my life. I haven’t committed any crimes, but I know what it’s like to want to stop the pain in your life and the temptation.

          I had a dream the other night about my dad, and it made me have some realizations in that area.

          My mom was really terrible to us. She still is.

          In my dream my dad was reliving our life. Only he was happy. With every bad thing he went through.

          Then I asked him “how and why are you here?”. And he said “I was here for her. I will always be here for her.” He then paused, and in a voice that you would only understand if you knew him what it meant, said “YOU are here for her too.”.

          Suddenly I had this understanding I’m not here for the people who put good in my life. I’m here to PUT good into people’s lives, who are far from God, so that they will know he loves them. So their burdens will be lighter. The life of a Catholic is a burdensome one.

          These dreams and events have popped up, one after the other. I know I’m being directed. I was also recently reminded that an ex from my past, who I looked at my being used by her as my biggest weakness in life, was my strongest trait, but also was what God expected from me. She did horrible things, and all I wanted was for her to come home, and love me. I used to frown when thinking about it, look down on myself. But, when I routinely thought that, I found that I would also protect, well, myself when the chips were down. Again: I’m here for others.

          Regarding entitlements, I think more so than that, as I said above, not everything needs an education that builds up debt and taxes. Logging, mining, agriculture, the cost of each of those goes up with higher taxes for entitlements. So maybe people who get an education are better off, but not those who want to live a simple life, when it comes to a high tax high spend environment.

          I used barber shops for a reason. There are studies that prove what I’m talking about. Low cost services die out in high tax environments.

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:17 am
            Libby says:
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            Yes, Bob. I know how much “good” you’ve put into my life with your insults, name-calling, and profanity-laced rants. You do know, don’t you, that what makes you a good Christian (or “religious” person as you would say) is PRACTICING WHAT YOU PREACH, don’t you?

            You might want to try it. Otherwise, you are just another hypocritical liar.

        • May 29, 2014 at 5:59 pm
          bob says:
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          Agent,

          It would be better worded if I said suddenly I understood I’m not meant to surround myself only with those who put good in my life.

          That I should surround myself with those who need me to put good in their life.

          If I surround myself with more people who put good in my life I’m not bearing any fruit at all. I’m sharing fruit with other people who already have it so to speak. The littlest of God’s children includes those who are destitute and in sin.

          Fundamentally, democrats do not believe in this.

          How quickly are you tossed out if you don’t “bring something to the table” or if you are not enjoyable to them? If you are a party pooper? If you don’t share similar interests?

          I mean really. Compatibility is what most democrats talk about, and then you can go to their views on divorce. Same thing. It’s not about the fact that you made a life long commitment, it’s about compatibility, or what you are not getting in the relationship.

          It is consistent with most democrats, but especially atheists.

          Divorce = Me.
          Abortion = Me.
          Taxes / Entitlements = Me.
          Relationships = Me.

          • May 30, 2014 at 11:17 am
            KY jw says:
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            Wow, bob, you have really put a lot of thought and energy into this topic. I just wish I could reconcile my social conscience with my religion. I’ll keep your explanations in mind. Thanks; I know you were chatting at Agent, but I am guessing you were sharing with all of us.

          • May 30, 2014 at 3:32 pm
            Agent says:
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            I agree Bob. Even though I am Protestant, I share many of the same values you do including Marriage. 40 years married to the same woman for better or worse, in sickness and health. By the way, it should be between Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve. These pro gay people make me nauseous. These peoples relationships don’t last long and they are typically very unstable. Jealousy reigns supreme. I wrote a sandwich deli shop with two women “partners” a few years ago. When things went bad between them, the shop closed. One was seeing another woman on the side and that is when it hit the fan.

          • May 30, 2014 at 6:57 pm
            bob says:
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            KW JW:

            I have had one hell of a life KY JW. This thought and energy is the culmination of trying to fix it.

            I was indeed sharing with all. I feel like some people here need to know.

          • May 30, 2014 at 7:17 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            I laughed at your adam and eve comment. My mom says that.

            Be careful. Don’t be disgusted with them.

            If anything you should feel sorry for them.

            Sexual sin is sin against yourself more than anything else. That’s what the bible says. It denies yourself a loving fruitful relationship.

            When it comes to gay people have you seen how destructive they are? I pity them.

            We should want a good life for them.

            It isn’t the sinner god is disgusted with.

            I’ve come to realize the biggest pain to god is people not choosing him. Yes, the sin is the affect. But it isn’t the cause. We all sin from not choosing god, or to love each other. That’s what hurts him, that he wants us back. We should be careful not to be disgusted with people, that god really wants to simply love him.

          • May 30, 2014 at 7:19 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            And to finish that:

            We should help those people, give them as much love as possible, so they know God wants them back enough to sacrifice anything for them.

            My abilities of good aren’t for me. They are for anyone else that needs it. This includes gays. My abilities should never be used to show how disgusting they are, though I certainly could do a good job of it with my intellect.

            You know?

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:24 am
            Libby says:
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            OMG, Bob. Do you think your are Mother Teresa or something. Or perhaps you just lay hands and take away sin and pain. Give me a break.

            When you denegrated me and “cast me out of your life” I said “A true Christina would pray for me, not insult me and throw me out of their life.” Now all of a sudden you’re everyone’s answer to pain and suffering? You’re a little full of yourself, don’t you think?

            And another thing, God doesn’t feel pain or “want us back.” We never left Him, as He is always there for us. He is our Father. Fathers don’t turn their backs on their children. Especially not the Heavenly Father.

            I think I’d do a whole lot more practicing and alot less preaching, if I were you.

          • June 2, 2014 at 5:05 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, you get attacked and insulted by the left for turning your life around. Par for the course with this bunch of leftists. Christians have always been persecuted going back to Jesus’s time. The Godless Atheists have nothing to believe in and think Christians are stupid for believing in the afterlife. Some on the left profess to be Christians, but are against “religion”. To be sure, there are Charlatans out there to exploit people and get their bucks, but the key is for people to recognize who these Charlatans are and dismiss them. Remember Jim Jones? He got his cult followers to commit suicide for him.

          • June 2, 2014 at 9:49 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            That’s an extremely bigoted and offensive post, Bob. You entitled to your religion, but when you attack others’ religious beliefs or non-belief, you are a bigot. And for the record, atheists have far lower levels of divorce, abortion, and receipt of entitlements. In fact, you’ll find all of these things are *much* more prevalent in the so-called red-states. How about we keep religion out of discussions of insurance news, unless it’s somehow directly related to the topic at hand?

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:30 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            God doesn’t feel pain?

            Why does hell exist?

            You cannot deny it exists.

            Why does it?

            You don’t care about your God’s pain?

            Mother Theresa? You seem very very mad now that I’m talking as I should. That’s satan in you. It suddenly shows your head when you see true Christianity as I said before. If you were christian, you would be glad for my progress, whether or not you were in my crossfire of words in the past. Instead, you are insulting me, and limiting my path.

            Do know that God remembers such things.

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:50 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh, Bob. This is just your newest fad, that’s all. First there was liberalism, then there was homosexuality, then there was promiscuity, then there was conservatism, then there was agnosticism, now there’s “religion.” You’re one screwed up dude. I pray for you often, believe it or not.

            If you are truly devoted to your path, there is not one thing I could do to limit it.

            And, no, God doesn’t feel pain and there is no hell. Why? Do you need the threat of hell to do the right thing? Funny. I don’t.

          • June 3, 2014 at 1:51 pm
            bob says:
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            “That’s an extremely bigoted and offensive post, Bob. You entitled to your religion, but when you attack others’ religious beliefs or non-belief, you are a bigot. And for the record, atheists have far lower levels of divorce, abortion, and receipt of entitlements. In fact, you’ll find all of these things are *much* more prevalent in the so-called red-states. How about we keep religion out of discussions of insurance news, unless it’s somehow directly related to the topic at hand?”

            A:

            Then believing republicans are against the middle class is bigoted. Arguing point moot.

            B:

            Saying someone is more about themselves without god is not bigoted. Have you ever called someone selfish?

            C:

            The deriving force of those without God in their life is themselves. It is not bigotry. It is darwinism.

            Call religion a mental disorder if you so desire. And it could very well be. But it’s the only mental disorder that can remove darwinism in a way that makes a being above you mandate that you treat another person well. With the exception of kings and dictators.

            You’re talking to a former atheist/agnostic. I know your debate tactic. Are we going to talk with some degree of class, or are we really going to go the philosophical route, and then say it is all a matter of opinion, while calling me a bigot?

            Eh?

          • June 3, 2014 at 1:55 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            My newest fad?

            What was my previous fad?

            It is all about logic. Again: Why does hell exist? You don’t take debates, you take attacks.

            Personal ones.

          • June 3, 2014 at 1:56 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            I think Mother Theresa must have a back story I haven’t heard of.

            If she’s anything like I was, or am here, I wouldn’t follow her.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:13 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Moreover,

            First I was a hard headed conservative who doesn’t change his opinion.

            Now I have fads at a whim.

            Really.

            Which am I?

            Are you done with the insults? I must have left you with a lot of issues unresolved with me.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:29 pm
            Libby says:
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            Where do I start, Bob. Yes, you are all those things. You are so tormented, you leap from trend to trend desparately seeking solace and peace. I hope this newest thing brings that to you.

            A. “My newest fad? What was my previous fad?” I listed them for you already.

            B. “Why does hell exist?” I already said it doesn’t.

            C. “Are you done with the insults? I must have left you with a lot of issues unresolved with me.” I’ll be done with the insults just as soon as you stop 1) judging me; 2) putting words in my mouth; 3) prosthelytizing to me.

            Got it?

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:34 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            I’m judging you by stating biblical word? What judgement have I made? I have said what you’re doing. And I will continue to do so.

            You didn’t say what my prior fad was. You said this is a new fad. What was my prior fad? I don’t have fads.

            I’m all of them and none all rolled into one?

            This is paranoia and hysteria. For as much as you are saying religion has me riled up, I’m not.

            I’m not going crazy here.

            In fact, I’m mainly asking you why are you acting this way in different ways. To think about what you’re doing.

            Right now you are on assault mode Libby.

            Turn it off, shut it down.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:46 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – every time you tell me I am wrong because I do not believe what your bible says to you, it is sitting in judgement. And as long as you do that, I will remain on assault mode.

            You have no right. So if you want to continue to be verbally assaulted, insulted, and cursed at, please be my guest and continue. If you want to stop preaching your nonsense at me, I will be more than happy to continue a cordial conversation.

            Your choice.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:57 pm
            bob says:
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          • June 3, 2014 at 3:10 pm
            Libby says:
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            I will not debate you on what my God does or does not tell me. It’s none of your business.

            Just as your God is none of mine.

            Keep your little book to yourself, too.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:07 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Then we are removing god from arguments?

            Which is what I said you do above? Which is why you started this fight?

            When it comes to abortion you remove god.

            Which makes sense. Because if it were about God, you would realize removing the child is an act against god.

            Debate over.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:19 pm
            bob says:
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            And side comment:

            You already have told me what your god in your head says.

            And then you back petal, and tell me not to tell you what he says.

            This back and forth is really irritating.

            You told me, that my bible shouldn’t dictate your life. When I said abortion was wrong. That’s telling me what my religion is. I didn’t tell you not to tell me what my religion was. I instead said, what does your bible say? Are you objecting god’s will through the termination of life? You didn’t answer.

            You told me as long as I say I don’t agree with you you can insult me. You just reiterated you don’t agree with me. Do I get to insult you now?

            Your god in your head is why you are this way. You have no authority above the god in your head.

            I rely on a group of people who are my help. I rely on a book, and then people’s interpretations and theology.

            Not the bible of my head.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:43 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – I have read many books. They all say basically the same thing.

            When you speak of God (for whom you do not have the respect to write properly) are you speaking of Jesus or God or are they one and the same?

            I guess everyone that doesn’t believe in your bible (Jews, Muslims, Hidus, etc.) are all charlatans as well?

            You are the worst type of Christian. You say you don’t judge but you do. Hypocrite.

          • June 3, 2014 at 10:38 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Yes, bob, bigoted ignorance. Specifically, your statement that “It is consistent with most democrats, but especially atheists.

            Divorce = Me.
            Abortion = Me.
            Taxes / Entitlements = Me.
            Relationships = Me.”

            It’s not only factually incorrect, but it’s a sweeping generalization about an entire class of people based on ignorance and prejudice and is, by definition, bigoted. It’s not the same thing as “calling somebody selfish” based on their individual observable behavior. I’d hope you would understand the difference. I must say you are a poor emissary for your god.

          • June 4, 2014 at 9:23 am
            Libby says:
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            RBC, Bob is the worst kind of bigot. He refuses to accept it, but accuses others of it if you do not agree with his assertions; which half the time make no sense.

            He is also a bully, as you can tell with his relentless rants and ravings.

            He attacked me about George Bush. Then has the nerve to tell me I attacked him. He is a looney tune of the highest order and is starting to frighten me. You are best not to engage, otherwise he cyber-stalks you on IJ and will not leave you alone.

          • June 4, 2014 at 12:47 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Libby, I can’t help but agree that bob’s rants appear to be the ravings of a lunatic. I’m not entirely sure he cast off all of those old demons he claims were haunting him. Since, ya know, demons are from within and there they reside.

          • June 4, 2014 at 1:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            I hear ya, RBC. But Bob seems to think the demons reside somewhere below (hell I guess) except when they surface to whisper satanic gobbledygook in your ear.

            He’s one twisted and confused individual that borderlines on the fanatic. Scary sh*t.

          • June 5, 2014 at 12:10 pm
            bob says:
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            Oh boy Reality, let’s play shall we?

            You chose me because you find me to be religious, and you think I will not ingrain common sense and philosophy with religion.

            “Divorce = Me.
            Abortion = Me.
            Taxes / Entitlements = Me.
            Relationships = Me.””

            Let’s go to the topic at hand. I said that in the absence of religion Divorce is about me.

            Divorce:

            Please explain how divorce is not about the person getting a divorce when they get it? They are getting one for one of many reasons involving themselves. In what world are they doing it for the other person? I have seen many religious people stay with people, and it is commonly thrown in their face that they would ever self sacrifice to that degree, on the atheist side. Deny that all you want. It does happen. Divorce is me.

            Abortion:

            In the absence of god, killing a child is denying an existence. There is no existence in the US of A in poverty, considering how much we have for the poor, in which killing a child would be the benefit over having the child. In what world is abortion for anyone other than the person having an abortion? Abortion = Me.

            Taxes / Entitlements:

            I’ll let you have the ignorant argument you will put here, that taxes isn’t about “me”, as I know which you will put forward, but take note: Those that believe in the government regarding taxes give notably less to Charity. I have already posted links to this. The very mindset of people who believe in the government are against charity. And certainly those who receive are all about me. There is no way that with all that we spend that all the people on entitlements all NEED to be on entitlements. Some do. Most don’t. Taxes and entitlements are about me.

            Relationships:

            I have not once. NOT ONCE. Seen an atheist who would forego attractions like I did with my first girlfriend, of 300 lbs, my second, of 300lbs, and considered that human being the way that I did when I was 13 and 18 and a catholic (when I did believe, before my 10 year long rebellion period, in which I was much as ignorant as you). Atheists. Do not. Throw out. Attractions. Nearly. To. The Degree. That theists do. Of course, at least half of all religious believers STILL would never marry someone they were not attracted to. But buddy, have you ever even seen one atheist who would give away that pleasure? Who would much less give away flirting? They look at it as their only chance in life. Believers do not, and it is not weighed in their head with importance. Without religion, you weigh things as an animal.

            You commonly believe, as most due, in the more agnostic leaning / atheist crowd, that you have experienced something I have not, that I am limited by religion, that I am bigoted and you are not (while you have something against religion) that you are superior. I do not believe myself superior to you.

            I don’t even believe myself superior to the “me’s” above.

            Let me be clear, 18-28 were years that I argued against religion. And I took the same arguments you are taking with me. You aren’t well versed on this, yet. Until you see this argument a few more times, and see what the “you” equivalent says each time.

          • June 5, 2014 at 12:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            OK, Bob. I understand now. You are only 28 years old. Come back and let’s talk when you have had a chance to actually live a little life and experience OTHERS. It is YOU that is all about YOU. Your experiences, Your feelings, Your religion. You are one of the most self-centered people I have encountered. And as such, you find it impossible to accept that inconvenient truth about yourself.

            You are still wet behind the ears, grasshopper. You don’t even know what you don’t know.

            Divorce – sometimes it is a mutual decision between two people that love and care about each other. I still love and care about my ex-husband, but we both were not happy after 18 years together and made this difficult decision FOR each other, not AGAINST each other.

            Abortion – while a difficult decision, sometimes it IS the right decision. Enough said on that.

            Taxes/Entitlements – no arguments from me on this.

            Relationships – you haven’t had enough HEALTHY ones to even ponder on this subject, let alone expound. Once you have lived past your 28 years, you will realize there are many kinds of relationships in life. Child/Parent. Spouse/Spouse. Lover/Lover. Friend/Friend. Family/Family. There are many reasons (and seasons) for relationships in one’s life. Some come and go, some last forever. That is the nature of relationships. Hopefully we all leave a relationship better than when we entered it. Not all relationships are meant to last.

            So. Take your “profoundness” and live a little more. We’ll talk later when your ears have dried.

          • June 5, 2014 at 3:33 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby and reality,

            You are perfectly entitled to disagree with me.

            You are not perfectly entitled to insults and labeling me a bigot.

            I think democrats and those who have abortions, divorces, and rely on entitlements, are about themselves. That is not bigotry. You can argue some people need entitlements, which is why I said there are those that need them. That is another argument. Those who rely on them, by the numbers, are democrats, and those who agree with people being able to rely on them, are primarily democrats.

            I think that gays are denying them a lifestyle that has many beautiful things they never experience. Childbirth being one. Another being going through the hormones of another gender, which obviously, drives many of us crazy (and many more who are selfish and about themselves to divorce, one in two people get divorced. It is not because of wife beaters and people they need to leave. It is about them being selfish.)

            That is not bigorty.

            You can throw out insults all you want. I’m perfectly game.

          • June 5, 2014 at 3:52 pm
            bob says:
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            Reality,

            Show me the study that shows the recipients of welfare themselves in the red states, are red voters.

            That is data manipulation right there.

            I have seen the data you are referring to. I have seen the argument. You argue like a typical atheist.

            By the by:

            Saying atheists are like gods with lower divorce rates, abortion rates, etc, (which is untrue) is also the negative version of my comment.

            Which, if it were true I were bigoted, would also make you bigoted.

            Just saying.

            I don’t think you are. I think you share a different opinion, and are used to calling people bigots to gain points in arguments. It’s a pretty dick move.

            You can own up to it if you want, it would be ok, and very manly of you. And then you know, we could talk about these things.

            Maybe.

            In a utopia. If you weren’t an atheist who was so riled up against religion that you were foaming at the mouth. If you weren’t being demonically pulled, which is the only explanation why an atheist wouldn’t act logical with me.

            I don’t see atheists argue proper. They all argue like you.

            You want to disprove the existence of god to me? (a shaky new believer)

            Prove it’s not your atheism and far way relationship from god causing this.

            Prove you have a moral code and will follow it in arguments.

            Is that difficult reality? Without god can you handle it?

          • June 5, 2014 at 7:07 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Bob, your last several posts were not really very coherent. In fact, they were virtually indecipherable. Not trying to be insulting…sometimes less is more.

            If you addressed my primary point at all, it escaped me. I did not respond to you because you profess to be religious (play the victim card much?). As I said, when you demean and make wild generalizations about an entire group based on their differing religious beliefs or non-belief, by *definition* that is bigotry. That’s what I said. Look it up, brother.

          • June 5, 2014 at 7:16 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            And as I mentioned, our assertions are flat out wrong, even taken as generalizations. Evangelicals are significantly more likely to have extra-marital affairs than are atheists. Atheists make up between 5%-10% of the US population (depending on how it’s defined), but comprise well below 1% of the prison population. One survey found that over 25% of those seeking an extra-marital affair on one popular site described themselves as evangelical, which is about twice the evangelical population at large, so they seem significantly overrepresented (see link below). Remember the “mote in they neighbor’s eye” verse, before you go off attacking entire groups of people based solely on their attitudes towards religion. http://aattp.org/new-survey-shows-evangelical-christians-most-likely-to-cheat-on-spouses/

          • June 5, 2014 at 8:29 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            ok bob, I don’t really like to discuss religion much, and as I said I don’t think it is an appropriate topic for this forum. Since the dog is let out, and dinner and dishes are done, I try to respond to your extremely disjointed post. Remember, you are communicated in text, not speaking from the pulpit.

            “Show me the study that shows the recipients of welfare themselves in the red states, are red voters.”

            I have never made such a claim, nor know of any study done on this topic. You have made the opposite claims that “liberals and atheists” do receive more welfare. Please cite a study. What I conclude is that the red states produce more poor people, which is obvious from the data, whether they be left or right (or most likely, largely apolitical).

            “That is data manipulation right there.”

            See above, and try to read comments with a little more care and less bias / projection / or whatever is going on with you.

            “I have seen the data you are referring to. I have seen the argument. You argue like a typical atheist.”

            How does a “typical atheist” argue, bob? Another wild generalization. Do they argue like Richard Dawkins, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Carl Sagan, Albert Einstein, and other atheists of that sort?

            By the by:

            “Saying atheists are like gods with lower divorce rates, abortion rates, etc, (which is untrue) is also the negative version of my comment.”

            I haven’t made any of those claims, but it turns out that atheists do actually have significantly lower divorce rates than various religious groups. Perhaps they just make better dating decisions. I don’t point this out to suggest any kind of superiority, but to counter your factually incorrect claim that atheists, being prone to narcissism, *have higher divorce rates* That claims is factually incorrect. Why did you even bring it up in the first place?

            “Which, if it were true I were bigoted, would also make you bigoted.”

            This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

            “Just saying.”

            Me too.

            “I don’t think you are. I think you share a different opinion, and are used to calling people bigots to gain points in arguments. It’s a pretty dick move.”

            I rarely call people bigots. Really, only those that denigrate an entire class of people based solely on their religious beliefs or lack thereof. ‘Cause, ya know, that’s pretty much exactly the definition of the word. Fortunately, I know virtually nobody that does that.

            “In a utopia. If you weren’t an atheist who was so riled up against religion that you were foaming at the mouth. If you weren’t being demonically pulled, which is the only explanation why an atheist wouldn’t act logical with me.”

            None of these sentences are complete sentences. Subject, verb, object. It would make your posts easier to follow. And yeah, the fact that I disagree with you is probably due entirely to demonic influences *rolls eyes*

            “I don’t see atheists argue proper. They all argue like you.”

            Perhaps you should get out more, bob.

            “You want to disprove the existence of god to me? (a shaky new believer)”

            I have absolutely no desire to disprove god to you or anybody else (which can’t be done anyway, since one cannot prove a negative). Proselytizing seems to be your thing, not mine. I object to your denigrating an entire class of people based solely on their religious beliefs. You’ll never find anything like that in my posts. I’ll bet you my entire savings on that, bob. Never happened.

            “Prove it’s not your atheism and far way relationship from god causing this.”

            Jumpin Jeezuz on a pogo stick. What are you one about?

            “Prove you have a moral code and will follow it in arguments.”

            Well, I don’t think that can be proven. But as a start, I’ll think you’ll find I have never denigrated an entire class of people based solely on their religious beliefs.

            “Is that difficult reality? Without god can you handle it?”

            bob, I know you think that people attack what you say because of your religion. That probably is not the case, certainly not with respect to me. Did it ever occur that people dispute you because you come across as an asshole? Something to think about.

          • June 6, 2014 at 9:31 am
            Libby says:
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            Ding, ding, ding! You hit the nail on the head, RBC. Bob’s post are incoherent tomes of nonsense half the time because he types like he talks. He’s a miserable communicator. I have very respectfully pointed this out to him and asked him to be more concise to make it easier to follow, but this throws him into another rage and more pages of incoherent nonsense.

            And yes, people mostly disagree with him not because of his opinion but because he comes across as a complete asshole.

          • June 6, 2014 at 6:04 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Seems to be circular reasons. The discussions always follow the form of:

            Bob: You are an ungodly person!!! Probably one of them communistic homosexual lovin’ god denyin’ LIBRULS”

            Answer: Now hang on a second Bob…

            Bob: [caps lock power active!] STOP ATTACKING MY RELIGION!!!! [off]. *goes on for another 30 pages of incoherent ranting*

            It’s like trying to talk to somebody on acid.

        • June 3, 2014 at 10:30 am
          Agent says:
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          Bob, I know a very good guy who is a lay minister and he has a prison ministry and gives Bibles to prisoners and also leads a service there. He has converted some very bad people to Christianity and changed their lives. They had very little future with the life they were leading and perhaps some can actually lead a good productive life when they get out.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:59 pm
            bob says:
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            Are you seeing this Agent?

            Am I wrong in thinking this is about the nicest I have been to Libby while defending myself and my beliefs?

            Have I been offensive?

            Or is Satan really this strong in her? I know that sounds crazy saying it out loud, but I’ve seen this my whole life. People will sometimes just go into attack mode at the site of God and bible quotes.

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:11 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh, yes, Bob. Ask Agent what he thinks about me. That should be fair and impartial.

            Keep it up, pal.

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:14 pm
            Libby says:
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            And your little “nice” act isn’t fooling anyone. I saw the true Bob come out on another post just the other day. You’re the same arrogant, self-righteous, know-it-all you’ve always been.

            Now you know everything about God after one catechism lesson. Typical.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:08 pm
            bob says:
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            My nice act?

            And you saw the mean bob come out?

            Well I’m seeing the mean Libby. There’s only so much of this I can tolerate.

            What did I say Libby that shows how mean I am?

          • June 3, 2014 at 6:10 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes Bob, I am seeing it and the nicer you are, the angrier Libby becomes. In her heart, she knows she is wrong, but she is angry you are killing her with kindness given all the battles you have had with her the past few years.

          • June 5, 2014 at 3:37 pm
            bob says:
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            Bob,

            I seem to have made both reality and Libby go off their rockers. Funny isn’t it?

            When you’re marked you’re marked. It doesn’t particularly bug me, though if Reality wants a game of it…I could make it one.

            Easy one liner: So then Reality, tell me what you think of them there homophobic corporate republicans, who want the elderly to die, people not to have healthcare, children to die, and for the poor to die?

            Please. Tell me how you REALLY feel Reality.

            Bigotry has no place in this argument, other than your dishonest method of debate.

          • June 5, 2014 at 3:43 pm
            bob says:
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            Why do I have to be fair and impartial when I ask another if they are seeing you basically go foaming at the mouth as if from an exorcism?

            All you are doing is reaffirming my faith, Reality included.

            I have never seen a catholic do this. I have seen a catholic doing what I’m doing now, which at the time seemed very zealous.

            But right now, I’m seeing more zealotry on your and Reality’s end. More sheer panic, more wanting to be better, more…Dishonest methods of debate.

            You know you started this argument for the wrong reasons, and you keep on going.

            I would expect an apology, or for it never to go this far from a believer.

          • June 6, 2014 at 1:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – your hypothetical question to RBC is ludicrous. You are indeed a bigot when you lump all democrats into some half-baked notion of yours.

            As far as me confirming your faith, I’m happy to help. I am not threatened by your religion, I have my own faith that has brought me peace.

            I have done nothing to apologize for or I would. I am prompt to do so when I have been wrong. Another tenet of my faith. Not so much with yours.

        • June 3, 2014 at 12:26 pm
          bob says:
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          Libby,

          Don’t start fights with me and you won’t get my foot up your arse.

          Practice what you preach?

          You seem angrier since I’m becoming better. This is why I have more faith lately.

          Enjoy the spiteful path. I’m not having any of it.

          • June 3, 2014 at 12:54 pm
            Libby says:
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            You’re not getting better, Bob. You’re just getting nuttier. And I’m not spiteful. I pray for you often.

            I just don’t like your holier than thou bullshit preaching on Insurance Journal. Save that for your religious zealotry sites. From what I hear, there are plenty of them around. Or you could start a prayer circle, speak in tongues, and dance with snakes for all I care. Keep the other shit away from me and IJ. No-one on here wants to hear it.

          • June 3, 2014 at 1:54 pm
            bob says:
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            You pray for me while saying that?

            Practice what you preach on “holier than thou”.

            I am giving back story, and reasoning why lifestyles are harmful.

            That is not holier than thou. In fact, I think commenting on my sexual history being quite a blemish, my being an atheist, my arguments with atheists, is contrary to holier than thou. It is quite the “exactly the same as you, so stop being blind” wake up call.

            I will always defend myself. And you pray for me?

            You don’t even follow God Libby! Why are you praying for me at all? You seem way to angry to do so.

            Do you pray for the children that are aborted as well?

            You seem to be ok with attacking the people you pray for.

          • June 3, 2014 at 2:37 pm
            Libby says:
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            I only attack when attacked, Bob. You find it OK to judge me and tell me I don’t follow God and don’t have love in my heart.

            Well, I find it OK to tell you you are a self-righteous, f’ed up individual that views the world through his own little microcosm of personal experiences and is arrogant enough to think that all people either do or should think like he does.

            Your back story, while titillating and sordid at the same time, is not proof of anything but your personal experience as experienced by you. It is not indicative of how other people’s experiences have or should be. That’s your arrogance talking again.

            And your arguments against homosexuality are again a result of your personal experiences as experienced by you. Not the reality of every homosexual on earth. Although, I’m sure you’d like to think so.

            Take your back story and use it to tell others why YOU feel the way they do. But don’t use it to tell OTHERS how they should feel. That’s so f-ing arrogant.

            You want to know why you are holier than thou? Because all of a sudden you have found something that works in your life, for you, and you think you have the answer for everyone on how to live their life. You don’t have a corner on that market, pal.

            Embrace it, enjoy it, and wallow in the peace of it. But don’t YOU DARE tell others what they are doing is wrong because you all-of-a-sudden found religion and think you know it all. You don’t.

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:03 pm
            bob says:
            Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:16 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Bob – there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. After all, God created it as God created EVERYTHING.

            Argue your way out of that one, moron.

          • June 3, 2014 at 3:18 pm
            Libby says:
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            And no, I’m not feeling very charitable towards you right now. That does not mean I don’t love you. I am sure you have been unkind or uncharitable to your wife or vice-versa. It does not mean you do not love them. It means you are human.

            Just you saying I don’t have love in my heart is judgement of me. You really do think that YOU are God, now, don’t you? You seem to be carrying this religion thing a little too far with one. You’re not bordering on blaspheme. I’d watch it if I were you.

          • June 3, 2014 at 4:14 pm
            bob says:
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            Tell me, how does blasphemy work in the “my head” bible?

            How do you blaspheme in the church of Libby, which states that the bible itself is blasphemy not to be followed?

            This is old Libby. You don’t have love for me. I said you remove religion from arguments and this is what I get.

            I can argue my way out of the homosexuality argument, with one simple question: Did god create a people who can do nothing wrong? Is murder ok?

            Now you will say I’m comparing homosexuality to murder.

            No. I’m defining an absolute form of immorality. Murder. It is absolute. So you can, in the existence of god, do things that are wrong.

            Now back to my argument against homosexuality, which is really an argument for love:

            Is the love from same sex couples, as fruitful as two sex?

            No.

            Male and female brains are coded different. The pregnancy, the child birth, going through a pregnant woman as a man who knows nothing about it, is the definition of the word “humbling”. It isn’t about the positive. It is about learning. The reason homosexual behavior is wrong biblically is not because of the act itself. It is the removal of the best that god gave you right here, it two sex coupling. My wife drives me crazy in a way that no man could. She also loves me in ways no man could. Same sex couples lack diversity of natural occurring life circumstances. It is literally less fruitful. Debate against that.

          • June 3, 2014 at 9:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            Nope. I don’t need to continue this ridiculous conversation. You are like sheep and I don’t debate with nonsense spewing steeple.

          • June 5, 2014 at 3:46 pm
            bob says:
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            You’re cute. I can go on and on?

            Who went on and on when I said she didn’t like god in conversations, saying I belittled her then said at the end “I don’t want god in conversations!”

            You are marked, owned, called for.

            I don’t need to continue with you. If you don’t believe in hell Libby, and believe only in what you do being good, you’re going there.

            I’ll pray for you, and it isn’t a threat. It’s just the way it is, and I would rather you not.

          • June 6, 2014 at 1:53 pm
            Libby says:
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            Well, Bob, you can’t control who I do or don’t pray for.

            And you can try twisting my words all you want. That doesn’t make it true. I said there is no place for God in IJ discussions about political issues. Period. End of conversation.

            “You are marked, owned, called for.” Now who’s being cute? You’re a nut. Plain and simple.

            I don’t need the fear of hell to do the right things. But if you do, go ahead and believe all you want.

            Have you checked out “Sermon on the Mount” yet? Do that and then we’ll talk.

          • June 6, 2014 at 6:14 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Bob- “Don’t start fights with me and you won’t get my foot up your arse.”

            “You seem angrier since I’m becoming better. ”

            Yes, Bob actually juxtaposed those two sentences. Bob, you need a better irony detector.

    • June 2, 2014 at 4:46 pm
      Agent says:
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      Planet insults religion all the time and people that believe and stand up for their convictions. He thought it was real funny to go out to Chick Fil A and pee on their building because of their stance on Christianity. There is no way Planet is a devout Christian. That is not what they do.

      • June 3, 2014 at 8:40 am
        Libby says:
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        If anyone thinks Planet actually peed on the Chik Fil A then they are absolutely devoid of any intelligence. It was a joke. And it was because of their stance on gays, not Christianity.

        • June 3, 2014 at 10:32 am
          Agent says:
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          So what if it was a joke. He was very flippant about it and showed his true colors and that is not Christian at all. Perhaps he should go to confession on his admission.

        • June 3, 2014 at 11:13 am
          Libby says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          So it’s not Christian to tell a joke?

  • May 27, 2014 at 4:04 pm
    George says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    So many who choose to be ignorant; and so eager to flaunt their ignorance.

    • May 27, 2014 at 4:33 pm
      Destro says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      You may call them ignorant, but to them you are utterly delusional.

      • May 27, 2014 at 5:13 pm
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Hey Destro, back in the dust bowl years in the 30′s, do you think man changed the climate to have drought? Lo and behold, the climate returned to normal and man had nothing to do with it.

        • May 28, 2014 at 8:22 am
          Destro says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Before the “global warming/climate change” crowd came along we referred to things as natural disasters; keyword being natural. But clearly the Earth has never undergone any kind of weather like we’ve been having. It’s not like northern states have EVER gotten hail storms in early Summer, or tornadoes outside of Missouri.

  • May 27, 2014 at 4:17 pm
    Whodathunkit? says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Yep, I got nothing so I’ll call them names.

    • June 1, 2014 at 8:26 am
      Destro says:
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      Shut up Libby.

      • June 2, 2014 at 10:27 am
        Libby says:
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        Hahahahaha. Where do you think I got that line, you moron? From Whodathunkit.

  • May 27, 2014 at 6:43 pm
    Reality_based_community says:
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    It always fun to see the climate science denialist crowd swarm every single part of the internet every time the subject comes up; repeating the same debunked talking points ad nauseam without even the slightest degree of critical thinking. In fact, most of the talking points are logically incoherent and intellectual indefensible. “The climate has always changed.” “It’s hubris to think humans can influence the climate.” etc. It’s really rather like asserting that “People have always died from natural causes. It’s crazy to think that people die from automobile accidents.” The science is in. The many thousands of peer-reviewed studies, examining many multiple lines of evidence, nearly unanimously come to the same conclusion. Climate change is real, it’s cause by humans, and if we don’t change course it going to get very bad in relatively short order. You can deny it all you want, but denial changes nothing for those of us who choose to live in reality.

    • May 28, 2014 at 8:41 am
      Destro says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      “Denialist” is not a word. Speaking of no degree of critical thinking, your analogy of people dying from natural causes and car accidents is laughable. “The science is in.” No more research needed guys, the science is in.

      I like how the climate change lemmings love to equate anyone who doesn’t agree with them as “flat-Earthers” etc. when in reality they are closer to that comparison.

      • May 28, 2014 at 11:19 am
        Where_do_I_begin says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Alright Dave and/or Destro:

        Please explain why the analogy is laughable.

        Agree or disagree? (see below)

        The climate is changing, not only in the US, but globally.

        Burning fossil fuels pollutes the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat.

        Extracting fossil fuels from the ground or from underwater exacts a heavy toll on our natural ecosystems. For example, open pit mines, oil rig explosions, boreal forest removal (think tar sands in Alberta), watershed contamination such as in West Virginia.

        The ocean is becoming more acidic as more fossil fuels are burned.

        Fossil fuels are a finite resource that will one day run out.

        The costs to the environment, and to the declining health of some of the world’s population, such as residents in Beijing, are difficult to quantify. These costs are not currently included in the “cost” of the fuels that we burn.

        In extending the olive branch for a minute – I will understand take your argument that the world is a big place, how could humans cause the climate to change? “The climate has always changed.”

        BUT – going through the list I presented, if you can agree with even one of those topics, then we will find common ground, REGARDLESS of how you feel about the science of “climate change.”

        In thinking about saving our natural resources from destruction? Some may even call it conservatism…

        • May 29, 2014 at 2:27 pm
          Destro says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          It’s not conservatism, it’s conservation; slightly related topics. And yes I am a conservationist as well as a conservative. I’m not saying that humans can’t or aren’t affecting the environment. What I’m saying is that without a catastrophic event such as a pandemic or plague (or zombies) what is being done to “stop climate change” (that is what’s laughable, trying to create some kind of unimpeded stasis for Earth.

          Fossil fuels are a finite resource that will one day run out, but it’s not today. Nor will it be very soon. The U.S. has an incredible amount of oil but we aren’t utilizing it.

          I’m all for finding new forms of cheap/renewable energy. I just don’t think Big Government cronyism (Solyndra) is how we can accomplish it. The only thing it does is ruin our economy while the liberal elite do absolutely nothing but line their pockets.

          The earth has been spinning and churning out life for eons and will continue to as long as we reside in “the goldie-locks zone”. Again I’m not saying that human beings have no affect whatsoever on the environment, but the extent of which those on the left and especially in positions of power propagate their claims is ludicrous and telling of the movement in general.

          5 years ago, Joe Biden and John Kerry testified before congress that the polar ice caps would be completely melted by 2013. Now of course that just so happened to be the year after Obama got elected, with that extremely dire (and immensely inaccurate) projection being for the year after the president’s re-election. Moral of that story is blatant, alarmist, and outlandish lies to push an agenda, divide the people, and ruin the economy.

      • May 28, 2014 at 9:42 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        When your side escapes from the insular right-wing noise machine and begins to publish rigorous research in respectable peer-reviewed journals, you might have a little more heft. If you have virtually no published pieces, you really have no argument.

        Denialist is a word I’ve coined, because you folks are in no way skeptics. I won’t sully that noble term and tradition.

        • May 29, 2014 at 2:47 pm
          Destro says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          You are such a gargantuan moron.

          • May 29, 2014 at 2:54 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Wow…I guess I should respond on your same intellectual level – I know you are but what am I?

        • May 29, 2014 at 4:37 pm
          Joker says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          So now anyone that disagrees with your flawed “science” is automatically a right winger? I’ll tell you flat out that neither party gives a rats ass about any of us. If you’re too ignorant to see they are both puppets of the banking class, then how could anyone take you seriously with regards to “climate change”

          And also, there are lots of peer reviewed documents by several prominent scientists that refute the points you’ve made. And no, I will not waste my time citing them for you. I’ve wasted enough time reading your nonsensical banter on here. If you actually cared enough to listen to an opposing viewpoint, you would have already looked for them AND FOUND THEM.

          Climate change is nothing more than a power/money grab and another tax to steal the wealth of the populace. If it wasn’t then how can you justify giving billions of tax payer funds to overseas dictators to combat it. They just steal that money and enrich themselves. It makes about as much sense as Obama droning all these other nations in the name of democracy.

          I also loved how IJ took a pot shot at republicans in the beginning of the article. Yup, no bias here. LOL

          • June 1, 2014 at 4:29 pm
            Destro says:
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            I’m glad someone else picked up on that glaring bit of bias from the article. Dave commented on it pretty close to the top of the comments section too. Pretty absurd how the authoritarian liberalism comes out with the climate change issue. If you don’t agree with the powers that be entirely, you’re a right wing nutjob who’s probably missing some teeth, sleeping with your sister, [insert additional insult towards conservatives here].

      • May 29, 2014 at 3:09 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Destro, you know you can lead a full life still and overcome your affliction. You just need to be deprogrammed, as they do with cult survivors.

        • June 1, 2014 at 8:32 am
          Destro says:
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          The scary thing is, that’s probably what you really think. You’re either in your early twenties, or a sociopath.

          • June 1, 2014 at 8:34 am
            Destro says:
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            And speaking of “cult survivors,” believe me hombre, your side of the climate change debate seems to look like a cult much more than those who are skeptical.

          • June 2, 2014 at 9:53 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Except unlike most cults, my side doesn’t continually deny the massive amount of scientific evidence. That’s more your side’s forte. And you do excel at it, I must say. Rather like a cult…

  • May 27, 2014 at 11:38 pm
    Dave says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    And the climate change alarmist don’t have their own set of talking points, based on documented lies? Feel free to come out of your shell anytime you wish. BTW, why did y’all change from global warming alarmists to climate change alarmists? That damn contradicting evidence? Hate when that happens!

    • May 29, 2014 at 3:37 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      What are the documented lies, Dave. You folks are good at throwing around vague accusations, but when pressed can’t seem to provide any specifics. What “documented lies?” Destro still have refused to provide any specifics about exactly who falsified data. Throwing around unfounded accusations like that is, I have to say it, disgraceful behavior. And how could it possibly matter whether one calls it climate change or global warming? What difference does it make what one calls it?

      • June 1, 2014 at 8:36 am
        Destro says:
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        The evolution of the naming of it shows the gimmick.

        • June 2, 2014 at 9:55 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          Guess what Destro, there is no central committee on naming conventions that now requires everybody to use a new term. The term “global warming” is still very much in scientific parlance. I have no idea where you’re getting this. Oh wait…actually I do know.

    • June 2, 2014 at 11:06 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
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      And once again, what are the “documented lies?” You’re very good at throwing around vague unfounded accusations, and not so accomplished at providing any specifics or any evidence.

      • June 3, 2014 at 8:41 am
        Libby says:
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        Typical of the right.

        • June 3, 2014 at 10:45 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          Unfortunately, all too typical of climate change deniers.

        • June 6, 2014 at 9:34 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          Still nothing but crickets. No specifics. No names. No details. No anything…

          • June 9, 2014 at 8:59 am
            Libby says:
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            That’s because there are no specifics. There are no names or details. So they just disappear. Off to spread more nonsense on another thread.

  • May 28, 2014 at 10:04 am
    Al Gorethymoney4carboncredits says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

  • May 28, 2014 at 10:32 am
    EmpoftheEarth says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    The problem I have with the alarmists is that everything is viewed in a time scale that is not geologically apropriate. 20 years is insignificant time frame on a geological scale. Guess what? Population growth has been significant, yet plants thrive on Carbon Dioxide and give off Oxygen and are supposed to balance out.
    Also, you do realize that the planet goes through periods of cooling and heating? The earth’s axis can tilt over the ages affecting the climate on the planet.

    • May 28, 2014 at 9:45 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      You really haven’t the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Not even remotely. Climate reconstructions now extend back to over 400,000 years.

      Yes, the Earth’s axis tilts. That’s pretty well understood. It is not related to the current warming trend. In fact, it’s lessening the impact of warming.

      • May 29, 2014 at 2:50 pm
        Destro says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Do you own a vehicle? Do you buy/use plastic products? The funny thing about you alarmists is that you rally against oil and whatever else but they are just as much of the problem that you so zealously attack.

        • May 29, 2014 at 2:57 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          So your evasiveness indicates that you’ve retracted your prior statement that current warming is cause by eccentricities in the Earth’s orbit. Correct?

          • May 30, 2014 at 12:27 pm
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            Leave me alone! Im busy making money so I can buy oil to cover the local wildlife with.

          • June 1, 2014 at 8:40 am
            Destro says:
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            Haha, you’re legitimately delusional aren’t you RBC? At least it makes your username mildly funny in an ironic way.

          • June 2, 2014 at 9:59 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            More evasiveness. Are you or are you not supporting the contention that orbital eccentricities are cause the observed warming over the last century? As an aside, you’d have trouble picking Irony out of a lineup consisting solely of Irony and and additional 3 Rushbots.

          • June 19, 2014 at 7:24 pm
            Destro says:
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            You really are a sociopath aren’t you, what’s that like?

  • May 28, 2014 at 10:50 am
    rod says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Wow there is a lot of hot air around. The sea has been trying to soak it up but the people keep replicating themselves and adding more hot air exponentially thereby heating the sea surface and fuelling more violent storms from all this hot air energy. Al Gore and Jim Hansen are very convincing in their arguments, I certainly have not heard any convincing counter arguments or science other than knit picking by oil and coal lobbyists at some publications from poorly paid scientists.

    • May 28, 2014 at 11:26 am
      EmpoftheEarth says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Rod, again, just an opinion.

      And no, Day after Tomorrow is not a documentary. You cant protect yourself from extreme subzero temperatures by heating a burger grill at Wendy’s.

  • May 28, 2014 at 11:05 am
    Libby says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    So if we believe in climate change and that man has a hand in it, we are alarmists?

    How did you leap to that conclusion?

    • May 29, 2014 at 2:53 pm
      Destro says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      It’s the claims made by those in the highest echelons of the climate change debate. Such as John Kerry and Joe Biden saying in 2009 that “by 2013 the polar ice caps will be completely gone.” That is what is alarmist.

      • May 29, 2014 at 3:48 pm
        Agent says:
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        Destro, didn’t those environmentalists that said the South Pole was melting get stuck in the thickest ice recorded in many years when they sailed down there? Even the ice breakers couldn’t get through. I think they were finally rescued by helicopter and as far as I know, that ship is there for the foreseeable future. We also had many of the leftists saying we were running out of energy and we needed to conserve. The latest estimates of reserves show the US with more recoverable energy than the entire Middle East. I really don’t think we have a dying off of the Polar Bears in the north either. What a bunch of bunk.

        • June 1, 2014 at 8:52 am
          Destro says:
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          Yup, 2013 had the largest ice gain in the past 20-odd years. Funny that you mention polar bears, elsewhere in these comments I posted a recent article showing that the figure of the number of polar bears dying off was made up. We do have megatons of recoverable energy but the left doesn’t want us to tap it. Neither side really is pushing for it, besides Republicans pushing for the Keystone pipeline.

          My best guess as to why we are holding off on tapping into our huge stores of resources is that we’re buying up oil from 2nd and 3rd world countries as cheap as possible now, so that when foreign oil starts to dry up the US will become the leading supplier of oil and usher in a new dawn of opulence and exceptionalism. That’s the only sense I can make of it.

          • June 2, 2014 at 2:52 pm
            Agent says:
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            I wish I could believe your best guess Destro, but the simpler explanation might make more sense. We have in office the most stupid green environmentalists in recorded history. They want no development of our natural resources and would rather try to make gas out of cow dung or algae or switchgrass at 10 times the cost. They also would rather buy from foreign sources in hopes of them “liking” us more. Make no mistake, these people do not like the US much, but will accept our money on Oil & Gas. Obama gave money to Brazil to drill offshore and told them we would be their best customer. Guess who owns a big chunk of the Brazilian oil development? You are right, George Soros.

        • June 6, 2014 at 6:19 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          Agent- “Destro, didn’t those environmentalists that said the South Pole was melting get stuck in the thickest ice recorded in many years when they sailed down there?”

          Perhaps you should keep up with the science Agent, rather than relying on what you apparently consider a clever anecdote. “A slow-motion and irreversible collapse of a massive cluster of glaciers in Antarctica has begun, and could cause sea levels to rise across the planet by another 4 feet within 200 years” http://www.latimes.com/science/environment/la-sci-0513-antarctic-ice-sheet-20140513-story.html

      • June 2, 2014 at 10:02 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
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        Destro, you understand the neither Joe Bidon nor John Kerry are in the “highest echelons of the climate change debate” (whatever that means). They are politicians. Try scientists like Michael Mann, James Hanson, Gavin Schmidt, and countless other climate scientists.

    • May 29, 2014 at 4:33 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      The sad fact is, Libby, is that while you may be alarmed, you probably aren’t alarmed nearly enough. The posters on this site are blind – willfully blind. Lemmings… http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/12/climate-scientist-environment-apocalypse-human-extinction

      • June 1, 2014 at 8:53 am
        Destro says:
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        Lol Mother Jones.

        • June 2, 2014 at 10:03 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          lol, Mother Jones, winner of many many journalism awards. lol Destro, who lol’s out-of-context a lot when he has nothing substantive to say. lol.

          • June 19, 2014 at 7:26 pm
            Destro says:
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            “Journalism” awards.

  • May 28, 2014 at 11:30 am
    EmpoftheEarth says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Just wanted to provide a counterpoint..here is an enviromentalist who provides some different facts.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/copenhagen-and-global-warming-ten-facts-and-ten-myths-on-climate-change/16467

    . Climate has always changed, and it always will. The assumption that prior to the industrial revolution the Earth had a “stable” climate is simply wrong. The only sensible thing to do about climate change is to prepare for it.

    2. Accurate temperature measurements made from weather balloons and satellites since the late 1950s show no atmospheric warming since 1958. In contrast, averaged ground-based thermometers record a warming of about 0.40 C over the same time period. Many scientists believe that the thermometer record is biased by the Urban Heat Island effect and other artefacts.

    3. Despite the expenditure of more than US$50 billion dollars looking for it since 1990, no unambiguous anthropogenic (human) signal has been identified in the global temperature pattern.

    4. Without the greenhouse effect, the average surface temperature on Earth would be -180 C rather than the equable +150 C that has nurtured the development of life.

    Carbon dioxide is a minor greenhouse gas, responsible for ~26% (80 C) of the total greenhouse effect (330C), of which in turn at most 25% (~20C) can be attributed to carbon dioxide contributed by human activity. Water vapour, contributing at least 70% of the effect, is by far the most important atmospheric greenhouse gas.

    5. On both annual (1 year) and geological (up to 100,000 year) time scales, changes in atmospheric temperature PRECEDE changes in CO2. Carbon dioxide therefore cannot be the primary forcing agent for temperature increase (though increasing CO2 does cause a diminishingly mild positive temperature feedback).

    6. The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has acted as the main scaremonger for the global warming lobby that led to the Kyoto Protocol. Fatally, the IPCC is a political, not scientific, body.

    Hendrik Tennekes, a retired Director of Research at the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, says that “the IPCC review process is fatally flawed” and that “the IPCC wilfully ignores the paradigm shift created by the foremost meteorologist of the twentieth century, Edward Lorenz“.
    7. The Kyoto Protocol will cost many trillions of dollars and exercises a significant impost those countries that signed it, but will deliver no significant cooling (less than .020 C by 2050, assuming that all commitments are met).

    The Russian Academy of Sciences says that Kyoto has no scientific basis; Andre Illarianov, senior advisor to Russian president Putin, calls Kyoto-ism “one of the most agressive, intrusive, destructive ideologies since the collapse of communism and fascism“. If Kyoto was a “first step” then it was in the same wrong direction as the later “Bali roadmap”.

    8. Climate change is a non-linear (chaotic) process, some parts of which are only dimly or not at all understood. No deterministic computer model will ever be able to make an accurate prediction of climate 100 years into the future.
    9. Not surprisingly, therefore, experts in computer modelling agree also that no current (or likely near-future) climate model is able to make accurate predictions of regional climate change.
    10. The biggest untruth about human global warming is the assertion that nearly all scientists agree that it is occurring, and at a dangerous rate.

    The reality is that almost every aspect of climate science is the subject of vigorous debate. Further, thousands of qualified scientists worldwide have signed declarations which (i) query the evidence for hypothetical human-caused warming and (ii) support a rational scientific (not emotional) approach to its study within the context of known natural climate change.

    • May 28, 2014 at 11:46 am
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Yes, the climate changes. That is not the argument here. If you don’t see that, I can’t help you.

      • May 29, 2014 at 3:53 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Libby, you have to understand that deniers use the term “natural climate change” in a religious sense. All climate change throughout the history of the planet is *caused* We know the vast majority of those causes. But when they say “natural climate change” without even pretending to understand the cause, it’s just a faith-based exercise on their part.

        • May 29, 2014 at 4:19 pm
          Destro says:
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          So what is the solution? Everyone give their money to the government so they can take care of it? Because we know how competent and efficient government is.

          • May 29, 2014 at 4:48 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            The solution is to reduce carbon emissions. We can argue about the best policy to accomplish that. But the first step in solving a problem is to recognize there is a problem.

          • June 1, 2014 at 9:10 am
            Destro says:
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            Humans have overpopulated the earth, I remember seeing that there are (or were) enough resources to sustain a maximum of 1 billion people. Earth and Evolution have a way of healing itself through bacteria/viruses. The zombie apocalypse is nigh!!!

    • May 28, 2014 at 1:51 pm
      Where_do_I_begin says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Exactly as Libby says. The argument is the effect of our influence, which from the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, is pretty severe. Certainly no one is saying natural variability doesn’t play a role – but I don’t see how anyone could rationally claim that sending pollutants into the atmosphere at a greater rate than ever before has no effect.

      The key is the rate of change, not the fact that there is a change. The rate of change of hydrocarbon emission into the atmosphere has significantly increased since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, and concurrently, the world’s mean temperature has increased AT A HIGHER RATE than before as well.

      Historically, as the climate changed, biosphere could adapt as the temperature changed SLOWLY. We are finding that the biosphere can’t adapt to the rapid changes in temperature, acidity in the oceans, etc.

      So the argument, based on collected evidence, is that burning fossil fuels and other industrial practices have led to increased RATES of change, which explains the rapid and exponential increase of the earth’s temperature over the past 200 years.

      • May 29, 2014 at 3:57 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Very true. All of the natural causes of climate change, on balance, lead toward increased cooling. The impact of carbon use has had a strong enough impact to reverse the natural trend.

        • June 1, 2014 at 9:13 am
          Destro says:
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          If you really want to alarm yourself, look up “Global Dimming.”

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:37 am
            Libby says:
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            Would we see a picture of you?

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:06 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Yeah, global dimming, which is also understood, isn’t really a problem. Given the planet is actually *warming* ugh.

    • May 28, 2014 at 2:07 pm
      Where_do_I_begin says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Also, think about the Ozone crisis that an international consensus deemed worth enough of an issue to correct.

      Man made pollution caused a massive natural system to break down. We broke the ozone layer. We broke it badly enough that all governments agreed to fix it.

      Want to burn fossil fuels and throw natural systems out of balance? Just ask the ozone layer if we should still use CFCs in aerosol cans.

      • May 29, 2014 at 3:56 pm
        Destro says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        We need to go back to the dark ages! A pack donkey with pots and pans clanking off of either side as samurais and knights patrol the dirt roads doling out justice as they see fit. Well at least for the peasant(read non-political class).

        That or we can embrace steam power. I for one would like to see the steampunk earth. That’s of course assuming that every single nation of the world chooses to abandon their energy sources in place of steam.

        Fingers crossed!!!

        • May 29, 2014 at 3:57 pm
          Destro says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          You probably think I am serious and that my conclusions to your lunacy are ridiculous. My post was meant to be satirical in reflecting the level of ridiculousness coming from the climate change crowd.

        • May 30, 2014 at 10:48 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          You apparently never escaped the dark ages, Destro. We’ve learned a few things in the last 7 centuries. The earth is round and orbits the sun. Disease is cause by invisible organisms and not witchcraft. CO2 causes the earth’s climate to warm.

          • June 1, 2014 at 9:19 am
            Destro says:
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            *furiously taking notes*
            Earth…round…ORBITS sun.
            Disease…NOT witchcraft…

          • June 1, 2014 at 9:20 am
            Destro says:
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            Still though, Steampunk Earth sounds pretty sweet.

    • May 28, 2014 at 9:49 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Jeezuz…there are so many falsehoods in your post I don’t even know where to begin. For those who are interested in the *science* behind climate change, as opposed to politically motivated talking points that have been repeatedly debunked, I suggest you visit one of the many reputable scientific websites. One of the best I’ve seen is “RealClimate,” run by actual and well-respected climate scientists such as Gavin Schmidt. They are the real deal. Michael Mann also has a site and a Facebook page that is worth reading.

      • May 29, 2014 at 4:10 pm
        EmpoftheEarth says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        OK…All of you left-leaning folks keep asking me to cite my sources…how about time you cite yours as you keep demonizing me as a crackpot who is uneducated, believes the earth is flat. I have a master’s degree, have taken science courses, and my brother is a scientist. So I would appreciate it if we can have a civil debate and present evidence. Im talking to you Libby!

        • May 29, 2014 at 4:23 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Try the most recent IPCC report. It’s a fairly exhaustive compendium of the evidence.

        • May 29, 2014 at 5:43 pm
          Agent says:
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          Actually Empo, you did cite your sources with your link. Of course, the leftists will not accept anything but their own sources of their agenda and try to debunk anyone with a different source. Good old Ron always trots out his leftist sources when trying to prove his point. He thinks Paul Krugman is a brilliant economist even though it is proven he is a career leftist of the first order. So what if he has a Nobel? The Nobel gave Obama a Peace prize without doing anything and those drones keep killing innocent civilians as well as the bad guys.

        • June 1, 2014 at 9:24 am
          Destro says:
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          *stares at EmpoftheEarth through half closed eyes before breaking a smile*

          This guy’s all right.

        • June 2, 2014 at 10:40 am
          Libby says:
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          Excuse me? Just where was I uncivil in this posting? I can be downright nasty, I’ll agree. But not here on this particular forum. Now, I would appreciate an apology.

          • June 2, 2014 at 1:51 pm
            Libby says:
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            And Emp – Since you’re talking to me, where have I demonized you or called you an uneducated crackpot in relation to climate change? I asked for the source of your Top Ten “Facts” that supposedly debunked the Top Ten “Myths”. I think it was a fair question. Get your head out of your ass and know when to argue and when to shut the f*ck up.

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:08 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Dammit Libby! Don’t you know that asking for sources is just utterly contemptuous behavior? In some circles…

    • June 6, 2014 at 5:43 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
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      emp, just cutting and pasting, without edit, the standard denialist talking-points that have already been endlessly debunked? I’d take the time to rebut every single one of your 10 talking points, but actually I won’t. It’s a total and wreckless disregard of the truth, and its unadulterated bs. If you’d like to pick *one* point I might take the time to respond. Pick your best talking-point. Otherwise, this is just a Gish Gallop (look it up), a debating tactic of science denialists of every stripe.

    • June 10, 2014 at 7:07 pm
      Reality_based_community says:
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      Alright, I’ll take a few seconds to respond to Emp’s Gish Gallop of assertions.

      ” Climate has always changed, and it always will. The assumption that prior to the industrial revolution the Earth had a “stable” climate is simply wrong. The only sensible thing to do about climate change is to prepare for it.”

      This is silly, and constitutes a straw-man argument. The assumption that climate is stable would be wrong, if anybody actually makes that assumption. Since no climate scientists has, I don’t really seen the relevance.

      2. Accurate temperature measurements made from weather balloons and satellites since the late 1950s show no atmospheric warming since 1958. In contrast, averaged ground-based thermometers record a warming of about 0.40 C over the same time period. Many scientists believe that the thermometer record is biased by the Urban Heat Island effect and other artefacts.

      That is flat-out and demonstrably untrue. Satellite measurements have measured a very clear and unambiguous upward trend in atmospheric temperatures. It is also flat-out false that “many scientists” believe that the thermometer record is an artifact of the urban heat island effect. The effect is well understood, and incorporated into models. No plausible explanation for rising temperatures can be had by appealing to this effect. Wrong again, Emp.

      3. Despite the expenditure of more than US$50 billion dollars looking for it since 1990, no unambiguous anthropogenic (human) signal has been identified in the global temperature pattern.

      This assertion is simply contrary to the overwhelming (published, peer-reviewed) evidence. I guess it’s easy to just make assertions when no evidence is required or expected. Wrong again, Emp.

      4. Without the greenhouse effect, the average surface temperature on Earth would be -180 C rather than the equable +150 C that has nurtured the development of life.

      “Carbon dioxide is a minor greenhouse gas, responsible for ~26% (80 C) of the total greenhouse effect (330C), of which in turn at most 25% (~20C) can be attributed to carbon dioxide contributed by human activity. Water vapour, contributing at least 70% of the effect, is by far the most important atmospheric greenhouse gas.”

      Even if true, a 25% effect doesn’t sound “minor” to me – if temps changed by 25% we’d probably all be dead. And the impact of water vapor is fully incorporated in climate models and is well understood. It is not that as CO2 heats the atmosphere, water vapor increased, thus further amplifying the greenhouse effect. You are essentially arguing the point of climate change scientists rather than against them.

      5. On both annual (1 year) and geological (up to 100,000 year) time scales, changes in atmospheric temperature PRECEDE changes in CO2. Carbon dioxide therefore cannot be the primary forcing agent for temperature increase (though increasing CO2 does cause a diminishingly mild positive temperature feedback).

      Partially true, but the last statement “a dmininishngly mild positive feedback” is flatout false. It is know that the last mass extinction event, during which over 95% of all life on the planet died out, was driven by greenhouse gases – including CO2 and methane.

      6. The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has acted as the main scaremonger for the global warming lobby that led to the Kyoto Protocol. Fatally, the IPCC is a political, not scientific, body.

      Hendrik Tennekes, a retired Director of Research at the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, says that “the IPCC review process is fatally flawed” and that “the IPCC wilfully ignores the paradigm shift created by the foremost meteorologist of the twentieth century, Edward Lorenz“.

      This is just silly.

      7. The Kyoto Protocol will cost many trillions of dollars and exercises a significant impost those countries that signed it, but will deliver no significant cooling (less than .020 C by 2050, assuming that all commitments are met).

      The Russian Academy of Sciences says that Kyoto has no scientific basis; Andre Illarianov, senior advisor to Russian president Putin, calls Kyoto-ism “one of the most agressive, intrusive, destructive ideologies since the collapse of communism and fascism“. If Kyoto was a “first step” then it was in the same wrong direction as the later “Bali roadmap”.

      Quite a collection of sources that make assertions with evidence or any explanation.

      8. Climate change is a non-linear (chaotic) process, some parts of which are only dimly or not at all understood. No deterministic computer model will ever be able to make an accurate prediction of climate 100 years into the future.

      This is silly, compounding the silliness by using the vaguely scientific term “non-linear.” In fact, non-linear systems can be modeled quite well. The well-known hockey-stick graph is itself a representation of non-linearity.

      9. Not surprisingly, therefore, experts in computer modelling agree also that no current (or likely near-future) climate model is able to make accurate predictions of regional climate change.

      What experts? This is sort of like saying “four out of five dentists agree…” I seriously doubt most computer experts dispute the primary conclusions of climate models.

      10. The biggest untruth about human global warming is the assertion that nearly all scientists agree that it is occurring, and at a dangerous rate.

      Another straw-man argument. Well over 97% of the peer-reviewed literature on climate science agrees that climate change is occurring, that it is human caused, and that the consequences could be catastrophic.

      Nice Gish Gallop though.

  • May 28, 2014 at 11:31 am
    EmpoftheEarth says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    LAYING TEN GLOBAL WARMING MYTHS

    Myth 1 Average global temperature (AGT) has increased over the last few years.

    Fact 1 Within error bounds, AGT has not increased since 1995 and has declined since 2002, despite an increase in atmospheric CO2 of 8% since 1995.

    Myth 2 During the late 20th Century, AGT increased at a dangerously fast rate and reached an unprecedented magnitude.

    Facts 2 The late 20th Century AGT rise was at a rate of 1-20 C/century, which lies well within natural rates of climate change for the last 10,000 yr. AGT has been several degrees warmer than today many times in the recent geological past.

    Myth 3 AGT was relatively unchanging in pre-industrial times, has sky-rocketed since 1900, and will increase by several degrees more over the next 100 years (the Mann, Bradley & Hughes “hockey stick” curve and its computer extrapolation).

    Facts 3 The Mann et al. curve has been exposed as a statistical contrivance. There is no convincing evidence that past climate was unchanging, nor that 20th century changes in AGT were unusual, nor that dangerous human warming is underway.

    Myth 4 Computer models predict that AGT will increase by up to 60 C over the next 100 years.

    Facts 4 Deterministic computer models do. Other equally valid (empirical) computer models predict cooling.

    Myth 5 Warming of more than 20 C will have catastrophic effects on ecosystems and mankind alike.

    Facts 5 A 20 C change would be well within previous natural bounds. Ecosystems have been adapting to such changes since time immemorial. The result is the process that we call evolution. Mankind can and does adapt to all climate extremes.

    Myth 6 Further human addition of CO2 to the atmosphere will cause dangerous warming, and is generally harmful.

    Facts 6 No human-caused warming can yet be detected that is distinct from natural system variation and noise. Any additional human-caused warming which occurs will probably amount to less than 10 C. Atmospheric CO2 is a beneficial fertilizer for plants, including especially cereal crops, and also aids efficient evapo-transpiration.

    Myth 7 Changes in solar activity cannot explain recent changes in AGT.

    Facts 7 The sun’s output varies in several ways on many time scales (including the 11-, 22 and 80-year solar cycles), with concomitant effects on Earth’s climate. While changes in visible radiation are small, changes in particle flux and magnetic field are known to exercise a strong climatic effect. More than 50% of the 0.80 C rise in AGT observed during the 20th century can be attributed to solar change.

    Myth 8 Unprecedented melting of ice is taking place in both the north and south polar regions.

    Facts 8 Both the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets are growing in thickness and cooling at their summit. Sea ice around Antarctica attained a record area in 2007. Temperatures in the Arctic region are just now achieving the levels of natural warmth experienced during the early 1940s, and the region was warmer still (sea-ice free) during earlier times.

    Myth 9 Human-caused global warming is causing dangerous global sea-level (SL) rise.

    Facts 9 SL change differs from time to time and place to place; between 1955 and 1996, for example, SL at Tuvalu fell by 105 mm (2.5 mm/yr). Global average SL is a statistical measure of no value for environmental planning purposes. A global average SL rise of 1-2 mm/yr occurred naturally over the last 150 years, and shows no sign of human-influenced increase.

    Myth 10 The late 20th Century increase in AGT caused an increase in the number of severe storms (cyclones), or in storm intensity.

    Facts 10 Meteorological experts are agreed that no increase in storms has occurred beyond that associated with natural variation of the climate system.

    Robert M. Carter is a Research Professor at James Cook University (Queensland) and the University of Adelaide (South Australia). He is a palaeontologist, stratigrapher, marine geologist and environmental scientist with more than thirty years professional experience.

    • May 28, 2014 at 11:55 am
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Please provide your source.

      • May 29, 2014 at 3:23 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        wow, libby, you got 7 thumbs down for your comment, requesting a source. I guess they really don’t like citing sources. It gets in the way of just making stuff up.

        • May 29, 2014 at 4:10 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Exhibit A….wow.

    • May 28, 2014 at 3:22 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Good try Empo, but the Environmental leftists have a closed mind to anything but their agenda. They won’t be happy until we are all paying a carbon tax just to breathe. By the way, their President said just today at the West Point commencement ceremony that the military will be used to “fight” Climate Change in the future. What in the h – - – does that mean?

    • May 29, 2014 at 8:34 am
      Reality_based_community says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      My post above stating that “there are so many inaccuracies in this post I don’t know where to begin” was intended for this post. Jeez, more talking points. Mann’s hockey stick, far from a “statistical contrivance,” has stood up remarkably well since its 1998 publication. It’s been repeatedly replicated using different data sources and different methodologies. It was affirmed by the National Academy of Sciences, the IPCC, and other distinguished scientific bodies. And Dr. Carter, the apparent source of you post, really has zero respect in the scientific community and appears to have little integrity when money is on the line. http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/07/09/australian-university-dumps-bob-carter-advisor-multiple-global-climate-science-denial-groups

      • May 29, 2014 at 3:26 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        btw, Michael Mann is suing the conservative National Review for libel. The National Review accused him of falsifying data, in the absence of any evidence. To date, Mann has won every hearing on the matter. We’ll see how this case goes…

      • June 1, 2014 at 10:53 am
        Destro says:
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        First off, the IPCC is not a distinguished scientific body. It’s a political one. Regarding Dr. Carter, isn’t that curious that the university sacks professors who don’t agree 100% with climate change alarmists.

        • June 2, 2014 at 1:42 pm
          Libby says:
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          “First off, the IPCC is not a distinguished scientific body. It’s a political one.” Uh. No.

          The IPCC is a scientific body under the auspices of the United Nations (UN). It reviews and assesses the most recent scientific, technical and socio-economic information produced worldwide relevant to the understanding of climate change. It does not conduct any research nor does it monitor climate related data or parameters.

          Because of its scientific and intergovernmental nature, the IPCC embodies a unique opportunity to provide rigorous and balanced scientific information to decision makers. By endorsing the IPCC reports, governments acknowledge the authority of their scientific content. The work of the organization is therefore policy-relevant and yet policy-neutral, never policy-prescriptive.

          • June 2, 2014 at 11:10 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            That’s a pretty good description of the IPCC, Libby.

        • June 2, 2014 at 10:09 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          Actually, the IPCC is a distinguished scientific body. Composed of actual distinguished scientists. Really…look it up…

  • May 28, 2014 at 9:55 pm
    Reality_based_community says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Let’s see – temps have risen so much in Australia that their national weather service had to invent new color coded maps. As virtually the entire nation was going up in flames and kangaroos were literally fainting from heat exhaustion. Record drouth in CA, following a near-record drouth in the Midwest. South Korea and Japan experience their hottest summers on record. Globally, the 10 warmest years on record have occurred since 1998. Damn, those “librul conspirators” have been working overtime! http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2014/01/21/global-climate-report-2013/4719911/

    • May 29, 2014 at 4:06 pm
      Destro says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      I’m from the Midwest, not sure how to tell you this, but the only way we had a record drought would be if you only measured the past 8 years. You’re an idiot.

      • May 29, 2014 at 4:17 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Yeah, I’m from the Midwest too. I guess you just weren’t paying attention *to one of the worst droughts on record* Also, all these “you are an idiot” comments are just sophomoric. You are older than 12 aren’t you? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/29/us-drought-2012-midwest-winter_n_2214061.html

        • June 1, 2014 at 10:54 am
          Destro says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Ahhh the HuffPo, truly a bastion of objectivity.

          • June 2, 2014 at 1:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            Attack the source. So typical. So far you have denegrated any source not tilted to the right. Why are your sources credible, but ours aren’t? Find some sources to dispute them or shut up.

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:12 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Libby, when one can’t dispute the evidence, one attacks the source. Of course, he could have click on the many links embedded in the article to read directly the primary sources, including NOAA, US Drought Monitor, etc.

          • June 6, 2014 at 12:30 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes Destro, When leftists want to try to prove something, they trot out Huffington which is one of the most far left wing organization in the country. That makes them look more stupid than ever.

          • June 6, 2014 at 6:25 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            Agent, you obviously didn’t bother to read the article. If you had, you would have seen links to the source material, such as NOAA and the Drought Monitor. That Destro could have lived through one of the worst droughts on record and have not only have been oblivious to it, but then adamantly deny that it ever occurred even when presented with the evidence…well, I don’t even know what to say. Perhaps that explains a lot…

  • May 29, 2014 at 1:28 pm
    ralph says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    i realize this is pretty unrelated, but here’s a question:

    Why don’t we do something about North Korea? Seriously…Has anyone read “Escape From Camp 14″? If not, I highly urge you to do so. It’s one of the most horrific stories I’ve read in a long time; I’d put it up there with Elie Wiesel’s “Night.” There are well over 300,000 innocents living in forced labor camps in North Korea. The country starves while their leaders live in extravagance, as they continuously threaten their neighbors and the US with nuclear war.

    Maybe THAT’S where our focus should be?

    • May 29, 2014 at 3:10 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Ralph, when you have an insane dictator in charge, he does what he wants and nothing the International community does fazes him. He could care less if his people are starving as long as he makes sure his military is fed and they get perks. I understand he had an uncle that was high up in the military and disagreed with him so the boy had the uncle fed to the dogs. That is what insane people do.

  • May 29, 2014 at 3:00 pm
    Reality_based_community says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Well I have to say this entire exercise was about as useful as trying to convince anti-evolutionists that the Earth is older than 6,000 years. Pointless. Unfounded assertions, ad hominem attacks, evasiveness, failure to support assertions when confronted by contrary evidence, etc. It is time for our species to grow up, folks.

    • May 29, 2014 at 4:08 pm
      Destro says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      You’re an idiot.

      • May 29, 2014 at 4:17 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        You’re a doody-head.

        • May 30, 2014 at 12:33 pm
          EmpoftheEarth says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          To quote the Church Lady, “well isn’t that Special.”

          • May 30, 2014 at 12:49 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            It’s sad that someone that purports to be a grown-a$$ adult acts like Destro, isn’t it?

          • June 1, 2014 at 10:56 am
            Destro says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            As opposed to acting like you?

          • June 2, 2014 at 4:53 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Destro just graduated from college, so he’s your typical arrogant, snot-nosed, know-it-all kid. Just consider the source and blow him off.

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:14 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Yes, exactly as opposed to acting like me – ad hom attacks, insulting belligerent behavior, evasiveness, complete and utter failure to address any of the substantive points that were raised, assertions without evidence, name calling, baseless accusations, etc. I could go on.

          • June 2, 2014 at 10:15 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Libby: “Destro just graduated from college, so he’s your typical arrogant, snot-nosed, know-it-all kid. Just consider the source and blow him off.”

            What? Wait. I find that hard to believe. Destro graduated from college?

  • May 29, 2014 at 4:12 pm
    EmpoftheEarth says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    I’m convinced…

    • June 2, 2014 at 5:10 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Destro shows much more intelligence than many who have seen more life on this blog. Example: Planet, Boogereater, RBC, Celtica, Ron, Where do I begin, Ins 102 and others. He shows me that he has been raised right and is Conservative.

      • June 15, 2014 at 8:29 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
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        I must have missed the display of maturity and intelligence. Do you find that intelligence in “you’re an idiot” or the more robust “you’re a gargantuan idiot?”

  • May 30, 2014 at 10:56 am
    T Dub says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Just ignore it. S. Fla is a pit anyway.

    • May 30, 2014 at 3:40 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Any state electing someone like Allan Grayson to Congress twice has something wrong with them.

  • June 2, 2014 at 8:51 am
    Jack says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    We need new EPA regulations to drive cost up so high that it deters the use of electricity. That way people in the north can die of exposure to cold and people in the deep south can die from the heat. Of course those hot and cold extremes are known to cause
    “gun” violence so we will be able to justify gun control as well. We could raise the min wage to say $25 an hour to help pay the electricity bills because flipping a hamburger should pay a living wage. Raise taxes as well to send money over to Africa for compensation of our White privilege while we are at it. You did know it was our white privilege that destroyed their forest and killed all the animals. We should pay for every other countries failure to progress into the 21st century. Maybe we could all convert to Islam so we stop the war on terror and get the added benefit of beating women and homosexuals.

  • June 2, 2014 at 3:03 pm
    Agent says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Jack, I have always been a bit puzzled by the continent of Africa not advancing into the 20th & 21st Century. Any advancement they have had was introduced by the British primarily. We have sent missionaries, the Peace Corps, teachers and much aid over there for the past 100 years and the people are still living the same as they were 500 years ago. Why can’t they advance like the other continents have?

  • June 3, 2014 at 12:28 am
    Reality_based_community says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Those interested in the basic science might want to watch the last Cosmos episode. http://www.cosmosontv.com/watch/270803523723

  • June 3, 2014 at 10:59 pm
    Reality_based_community says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    So, still no answers.

    1. Which climate scientist falsified data, in which study, and how has that impacted the overall findings of climatology?

    2. If the clear observed overall trend in global mean temperatures is just “natural variation,” what exactly is causing it? Solar output? Volcanic activity? Other?

    You folks made such assertions…still no evidence. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

    • June 4, 2014 at 8:45 am
      Libby says:
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      You will get no answers from them RBC. They spew nonsense and then run off to spew it somewhere else. It is their M.O. No statistics, no facts, just rhetoric they heard on FoxNews or the Rush show. Or maybe a chain-mail email they received. That’s where they get all the really good “information.”

      • June 4, 2014 at 1:00 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
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        They are rather like a very childish cult. They insulate themselves from the outside world, and live in a hermetically sealed bubble. There is not debate in the scientific literature re the fundamentals of climate change. Rather than confront the science, they throw out sophomoric jokes (which only they find funny), and throw around baseless accusations. WE got a few links from Destro, but those links all pointed to manufactured controversies that have long ago been debunked. It’s sad and really rather pathetic. I guess it’s a choice to live in reality among adults.

        • June 4, 2014 at 1:40 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          v”“I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness…

          The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance” – Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World – Science as a Candle in the Dark. Well known liberal propagandist and physicist.

        • June 4, 2014 at 4:21 pm
          Agent says:
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          Reality, actually, Empo gave out the most links. Try to stay up. By the way, it is the Climate Change dudes that were completely debunked and many resigned from their positions. If they were right, why did they quit when they were caught with their pants down?

          • June 4, 2014 at 6:50 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            What? *Who resigned* due to academic dishonesty? Can you give me one name?

          • June 6, 2014 at 5:46 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            You seem congenitally unable to answer a simple question. Who quit? Did you just make this up?

    • June 4, 2014 at 6:16 pm
      Agent says:
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      Empo and Dave gave you plenty of articles to answer you Reality, but you are too lazy to read them. Names were named on all these faux climate guys who had egg all over their faces for their deception. They should be prosecuted, but with libs in office, they probably won’t be.

      • June 4, 2014 at 6:49 pm
        Reality_based_community says:
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        I respondeded to two of the links. Completely bogus unadulterated bs. I’m not going to waste my time following the other links, but I’d bet a very large sum of money that they are bogus as well. How about one of you folks accusing a scientist of falsifying data 1. a name and 2. the name of the journal article containing the falsified data and 3. proof of such falsification, preferably in the way of some formal action taken by the university rather than the right-wing tabloid press.

        • June 4, 2014 at 7:15 pm
          Reality_based_community says:
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          Here, I’ll start with respect to denialists who just make stuff up. Alan Wegman. Study pulled after having been found to have been plagiarized and thwarted peer-review process. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2011/05/16/208108/wegman-scandal-rocks-cornerstone-of-climate-denial/

          • June 5, 2014 at 8:58 am
            Libby says:
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            Oh, RBC, I do love your passion, but you know the naysayers will have nothing to do with your data. Right? Keep the faith, buddy. You have science and most of the intelligent world behind you.

          • June 6, 2014 at 6:28 pm
            Reality_based_community says:
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            I don’t post to change there minds, Libby. I absolutely know that no amount of information can do they. They have hermetically sealed themselves off from reality. I post to hopefully raise awareness to those who may be undecided or watching from the sidelines, and hopefully point them to some useful information.

          • June 9, 2014 at 9:03 am
            Libby says:
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            Keep up the good work. You’ve given me some good information.



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