Exemptions Reduce Estimate of Americans Paying Obamacare Penalties

By Alex Wayne | June 5, 2014

  • June 6, 2014 at 3:28 am
    averagejoe says:
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    You are also exempt from the fine if the cost of insurance is more then 10% of your income. My bronze package (after subsidies) would have been 35% of my income… so at least i’m exempt…

    • June 6, 2014 at 2:02 pm
      Baxtor says:
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      The funny thing is, how will they verify that? Will they run your info into the system and see what the carrier’s premium comes back as? I don’t think so. They don’t have the man power. So many more can use that as well. Plus how will they verify that a year ago when you applied that rates weren’t that high in your area? This is just a mess.
      Maybe we can exchange one President for five Pirates? At least the pirates don’t try and hide their criminal intentions.

      • June 6, 2014 at 2:25 pm
        Agent says:
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        I wonder how many will be penalized for fudging income on their applications to try to get larger subsidies. The latest report showed up to 2 million have substantial errors in their applications. We know HHS will get to the bottom of it just like they have with their other transparent assertions.

  • June 6, 2014 at 2:10 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • June 6, 2014 at 3:12 pm
      FFA says:
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      Donr need the Nuge any More. Benghazi either. 5 terrorists for a Desertor. Guess we negotiate with Terrorists now.

      What a slap in the face to everyone that has served. Especially the family members of the people killed looking for him. Not to mention the people the 5 terrorists are going to kill in future plots.

      • June 6, 2014 at 4:39 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hi FFA, I guess you missed the big blog on Climate Change. The leftists are really going for that issue and down thumbing anyone disagreeing with them. That’s ok, we can play that game as well.

        Did you see where our wonderful National Security advisor Susan Rice of Benghazi fame said Bergdahl had served with honor and distinction? Kind of flies in the face of his unit buddies who said he was a deserter and traitor and they lost men because of him. Now the White House is saying our brave fighting men are psychopaths for telling the truth about him. What a great group of patriotic Americans we have in the White House! Obama will probably pin a medal on him and send him home to a ticker tape parade.

        • June 10, 2014 at 6:50 pm
          Destro says:
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          Which home would that be, his parents or his Taliban keepers.

    • June 6, 2014 at 5:52 pm
      Agent says:
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      I thought you were playing golf today Planet. Posting at 2:10 is pretty late in the day. Does your boss know where you are going?

      • June 9, 2014 at 11:50 am
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Why are you so obsessed with Captain’s golf game?

      • June 9, 2014 at 12:32 pm
        Agent says:
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        He claims to have a 6 handicap and plays all the time and then he lied about going and playing. Pretty typical for Planet.

        • June 9, 2014 at 12:42 pm
          Libby says:
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          How do you know he lied? Just because he’s not out on the course at 2:10 doesn’t mean he isn’t going to play 9 holes. It stays light until after 8:00 now, Agent.

          You have a really bad habit of calling other people liars when you are the one that has been caught lying on here.

          • June 9, 2014 at 12:51 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, your penchant for butting into other peoples posts is a terrible habit and I thought you would try to do better, but you are a hopeless cause. By the way, I was not lying about Obamacare right from the start. Everything has come true about this disastrous law and your President lied 39 times about us keeping our plans, doctors etc and you believed every word he said. I think your brain cells have deteriorated and for you, lies are what the other side says. A liberal mind cannot accept that they are wrong on anything. That is why you attack and it just shows your lack of common sense.

          • June 9, 2014 at 1:05 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            You lied when you said you were not going to talk about me to others on this blog. Not even one day went by and you were doing it with Bob and others.

            You are the pot trying to call the copper kettle black.

          • June 10, 2014 at 6:53 pm
            Destro says:
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            Aren’t pots often the ones made of copper? Kettles are always black. You’re the kettle in your own analogy.

          • June 11, 2014 at 12:16 pm
            Libby says:
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            “Kettles are always black.”

            Uh, no.

            https://www.google.com/search?q=copper+kettles

          • June 11, 2014 at 2:07 pm
            Libby says:
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            Didn’t you ever see Sound of Music???

            “Bright copper kettles and warm wollen mittens. These are a few of my favorite things.”

        • June 9, 2014 at 1:21 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Who lied, Agent? I did play. I play every Thursday in league and tee off around 4. 9 hole league but we make the turn often anyhow. Made the turn last week. Yes, boss knows I play every Thursday. He joins me every now and again, even though he’s not part of the league.

          • June 9, 2014 at 2:29 pm
            Agent says:
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            Good for you Planet. It must be nice to have those kind of hours. Do you have “flex” hours at your office or does the boss just look the other way? How are you doing on league play?

          • June 9, 2014 at 4:21 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            I negotiated my Thursdays before I made my move over to this company several years ago. I also have free Pro Vs for as long as I work here. Hours are completely flexible. I am just required to get my work done. Some weeks, that takes 35 hours, some weeks it takes 55 hours. I am just expected to be a professional and execute.

        • June 9, 2014 at 2:10 pm
          Libby says:
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          What’s the matter Agent? Not man enough to apologize to Captain for calling him a liar?

          • June 9, 2014 at 4:35 pm
            Agent says:
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            Wow Planet, free Pro V’s furnished by the employer? Do they have the company logo on them? We represent some markets that give us golf balls with their logo on them, but usually just at company/agent outings or tournaments. I usually get three or four dozen a year. Some have cut back due to belt tightening so I noticed fewer giving them now. You may be the only person I have known to negotiate for playing golf and getting golf balls furnished by a company. Quite a perk if I do say so.

          • June 9, 2014 at 4:39 pm
            Libby says:
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            You must not be a very good negotiator Agent. I negotiated unlimited blogging time in my last deal.

          • June 9, 2014 at 4:40 pm
            Libby says:
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            Still no apology for calling him a liar?

          • June 10, 2014 at 1:43 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Yes, they do have the company logo on them. So, if I lose one, I’m marketing. Evidently, sometimes I want to market to fish – haha. I agree, they are quite the perks. I am going to represent in the annual Claims Assoc outing here this Friday as well. That tourney is always a good time. All about the flat stick when it comes to a best shot – hoping our group gets hot. Cheers for now.

        • June 9, 2014 at 2:21 pm
          FFA says:
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          I have a 4 handicap. two arms. Two Legs…

          • June 9, 2014 at 4:37 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, liberals have an additional handicap of being brainwashed by Progressive Socialists into thinking the country is on the right track and everything is working. You and I both know that is totally incorrect, but they keep trying to convince people they are right and attack those that disagree.

          • June 10, 2014 at 9:41 am
            Agent says:
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            Libby, you take the cake. If I were your boss, if you wanted to blog 24/7 on this site, I would give you the opportunity to blog from home, not on my dime. You are stealing from him and he probably doesn’t even know it.

          • June 10, 2014 at 10:17 am
            Libby says:
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            He is getting more than his money out of me. Why don’t you mind your own business instead of mine and Captain’s? What we do is none of your concern.

          • June 10, 2014 at 2:05 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            For once I have to agree with Libby:

            As long as she makes her firm money, it shouldn’t matter.

            I think she said before she had some half a million in revenues for the firm (maybe it was another person here)

            When you get that much revenues you should be able to relax a bit. Life isn’t only about working…

          • June 10, 2014 at 2:22 pm
            Agent says:
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            Planet, it is hard to market with lost balls if they are in the bottom of a pond. Perhaps a diver will retrieve them at some point. I don’t think I would want to hit a ball that was in a pond for any length of time. By the way, I play the Bridgestone B330 Tour ball. They seem to go better than the Pro V’s and spin just as well. If you are playing a scramble, all it takes is one good tee shot, one good approach and a putt made. Low scores abound. I finished second in my last tournament, a Catholic charities event. Those people do very good work with the proceeds.

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:56 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, when you stop butting into my posts with FFA and others, I will leave you alone. You can’t leave well enough alone and always have to get your two cents worth in which really isn’t worth two cents.

          • June 11, 2014 at 9:04 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Good job in the tourney, Agent. I’ve played that Bridgestone ball, good ball. I still prefer Pro Vs (actually, the 1Xs). Oh, and my joke about marketing a lost ball in the pond was, “evidently, I some times I want to market to fish.” I agree, I wouldn’t want to hit a water-logged ball, either. But, they are okay to keep around as shags. I haven’t said anything political or marginal, but somehow this post will get at least 1 thumb down.

          • June 11, 2014 at 12:19 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent – considering how many times you have butted into my conversations, spoken about me to other posters, and criticized me ad nauseum, I think you have alot of nerve trying to put me down for the same behavior. After all, I learned it from you.

    • June 9, 2014 at 12:31 pm
      FFA says:
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      Cap, how is this positive? Less people getting taxed/fined means less revenue to pay for this and therefore – higher Premiums or Higher Taxes for the rest of us.

      • June 9, 2014 at 12:37 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hey FFA, I saw an interesting article about High Crimes & Misdemeanors that can get a President impeached. This President has unilaterally changed Obamacare 23 times on a law he signed. Changes to a law have to be made by Congress and then signed into law. A President cannot make law. He is charged to faithfully execute the laws of the land. This is just one of many missteps this President has made and he has not been held accountable.

        • June 9, 2014 at 12:44 pm
          Libby says:
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        • June 9, 2014 at 12:47 pm
          FFA says:
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          I have been upset about the OBama Care thing. I am now more upset that he released 5 high level terrorist back in the mix. It was stated on the CBS (Face the Nation) show that these guys will most likely be back in the mix killing more Americans. 5 high level terrorists for one deserter. Hardly seems this was in the best interest of the nation he is sworn to protect. Many of the soldiers that have been interviewed that I have seen are speaking out against this. Seems to me this alone should be grounds for impeachment. What a slap in the face to all that have served in the military.

          • June 11, 2014 at 12:29 pm
            Agent says:
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            I don’t know about you FFA, but in the list of Impeachable offenses, two stick out that get my blood boiling. 1. Lying to the American People 39 times on tape about keeping coverage and doctors under Obamacare to further an agenda when he knew it was untrue and 2. Releasing 5 mini Bin Ladens for a deserter soldier is beyond the pale. Of course we could throw in dozens of actions of ruling with the pen, EPA, mismanagement of the economy and spending $7 Trillion in new debt, but the first two are really bad.

          • June 11, 2014 at 12:53 pm
            Libby says:
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            None of those qualify as “high crimes and misdemeaners.” Give it up, Agent.

        • June 9, 2014 at 1:54 pm
          KY jw says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Call your congressman and tell him you support impeachment.

          • June 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm
            FFA says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            So I can hear him lie to my face? Had enough of liars. He is from Il too.

          • June 9, 2014 at 2:32 pm
            Agent says:
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            Have you contacted yours KY? I have contacted mine several times. Up until now, the fear of being called racist has been a little too strong for many to take action. Not enough backbone in the House yet. Let the President release another bad news terrorist and the ball may start rolling.

      • June 9, 2014 at 12:45 pm
        Libby says:
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        • June 9, 2014 at 1:31 pm
          FFA says:
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          I stand firm to my belief that Govt has no business butting in private industry. After my run in with City Hall this week end, I now feel that no level of govt want to see small business succeed. get told one thing – I have passed the sniff test – just to be told another when its show time. All levels – liars – Manipulators – thieves. City, county, state – Fed… Dont matter. Should be used to it by now living in Il my entire life. Keep holding out hope that someone somewhere is honest enough to look me in the eye and tell me the truth.

          • June 9, 2014 at 2:40 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey FFA, is Rahm in as much trouble as the reports I have seen recently? I understand he is not in much favor up there in Chicagoland.

          • June 9, 2014 at 2:47 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, I listed the first of Impeachable Offenses when Obama changed Obamacare 23 times on his own. Following are 4 more. 2. Engaging in an illegal war in Libya – He didn’t consult with Congress or ask permission to bomb Libya, he just did it because he felt like it. 3. Lying to sell Obamacare to the American People – 39 documented times on tape. 4. Violating Immigration Law and illegally implementing the Dream Act. He has ceased enforcing immigration law and is in fact dumping illegals on several cities including Phoenix instead of deporting them. 5. Releasing 5 Taliban terrorists in exchange for 1 deserter soldier which will put more American soldiers in harms way or encourage future kidnappings. Go ahead Libby and try to defend this with your best liberal spin.

          • June 9, 2014 at 6:46 pm
            FFA says:
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            Rahms got his troubles. Last was caught running red lights on his own cameras. Numerous Parking Tickets. Of course, there is that Murder rate thing ballooning again. Wont be too long before there are calls for the National Guard to step in…. He just cant get a grip on it. Maybe if there were more jobs for people to earn an honest buck, they would opt to work. That dont seem to be a priority for the Quinn much less on the Fed level. Jobs just dont matter to politicians.

          • June 10, 2014 at 1:47 pm
            KY jw says:
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            It’s not about defending those actions, Agent. It’s about proving they are crimes.

            Changing the ACA stuff was done by regulation, which doesn’t have to go through congress. Not a crime.

            I don’t know about the war in Libya. I don’t know what Obama did or what actually happened. So that one could go either way.

            Lying is immoral and rude, but sadly not illegal.

            I’m not sure about the immigration issues. I have no clue if any laws were broken.

            Finally, the exchange of prisoners was stupid, no doubt, but again, I don’t know if any laws were broken.

            I get that these transgressions are affronts to the American public, the problem is they may not be illegal.

        • June 9, 2014 at 2:37 pm
          Agent says:
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          Who are you talking to Libby? I was never in favor of any Individual mandate or any part of this forced through travesty of a law. Look back in the records and see if you can find one vote for Obamacare by Republicans. Whatever the issue, liberals are upside down on it. Obama has continually lied on everything and you swallow it hook, line and sinker.

          • June 9, 2014 at 3:58 pm
            Libby says:
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          • June 10, 2014 at 1:54 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            The mandate was “suggested” not implemented by republicans. So don’t say “our side”. Our side rejected it.

            Romney implemented it on the state level. If failed. He even said if he is the grandfather, he can kill it.

            But back on point: STATE LEVEL is not the same as FEDERAL LEVEL.

            Not to mention, the laws were not identical, and the individual mandate is not the only thing wrong with the law. Having an individual mandate does not make the plans identical. Having exchanges does not make the plan identical.

            Limiting premium investments for growth, to 20 percent instead of 30%, just for the sake of it, is however, a bad move and a major difference. The investment side is how the claims side pays their claims, and it is why private insurance works. This is common sense.

          • June 10, 2014 at 2:17 pm
            Libby says:
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            Far be it from me to defend the ACA. I wish Obama had more backbone and gone for what he campaigned on and what he was elected for – universal health. But he didn’t and we have this conglomeration of ideas that was put together in an attempt to appease the right by using their model (albeit not exactly.)

            And as far as the right rejecting the individual mandate, the right rejected ALL healthcare reform. That’s why Obama was elected. It was a major blunder on their part. One that they are doomed to repeat, as they have no ideas of their own other than repeal and that’s not going to fly with the voters.

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:42 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            No…The republicans did not block any healthcare change. That was the democrats. They were really stubborn on things going their way.

            I already showed you the CBO rated republican plan, and I showed your their alternate plans that you admitted were they the actual alternative, you would have voted for you.

            I would have been fine with a public option.

            Obama didn’t pass this plan to compromise. Even planet and you have admitted what this plan is for:

            To make private insurance fail, and put in place a universal plan. He didn’t negotiate. He held the U.S hostage (which he did with the debt ceiling)

            Put together all your logics. You know better than this.

            You already admitted the above regarding both the universal care (which shows Obama is the one with a problem of his way or the highway) as well as the $5000 debit card for families, and insurance premiums being tax free when it comes to your pay checks (so if you make $50,000, and $5,000 is from insurance premiums, you are taxed for $45,000 instead of Obama’s plan that taxes you for $50,000 and then issues subsidies. You may say it equals out, but history shows another story. Subsidies is akin to Welfare vs the child tax credit for single moms. One worked, one didn’t, and Clinton was the one who emphasized tax reforms in favor of welfare.)

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:43 pm
            bob says:
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            *would have voted for them*

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:53 pm
            Libby says:
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            All I know is since forever, only Democrats have put plans on the table for vote and they have been shot down by Republicans. When Republicans had control of Congress, they put forward NO PLANS for healthcare reform. That means, when they could have done something they did nothing.

            They may have all the greatest “plans” in the world, but none of them were put into bills or voted on so they really don’t count.

          • June 10, 2014 at 6:28 pm
            bob says:
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            A:

            They were put for vote. Check the republican website some time. They have lists of items that democrats refused to put up for vote. The number of bills is in the hundreds. Your side gets pissed when they can’t pass one bill. Our gets pissed when they can’t pass any. This is how democrats make the illusion that republicans don’t put forward ideas. They refuse to put it up for vote, like the bill that Mc Cain put forward for housing regulations in 2005. It didn’t get a “vote” but was blocked by democrats. So everyone assumes that republicans did nothing about the housing crises. This is also why occasionally they will vote “present”.

            B: The reason you aren’t seeing the plan, as I said before, is a liberal media problem. You keep on saying they aren’t putting it out there:

            YES THEY ARE. You are demonizing any company that does so, as are the democrats in office. They know how to get you riled up. The only company which puts out all conservative news on a regular basis is Fox News. You constantly demonize it, but it had all these plans spelled out, along with Forbes.

            C: Which I forgot to put above, the republican mandate, the one I said they didn’t support, was in the Reagan days. They had a republican plan and didn’t pass it by choice. The republicans were not all for the mandate. A few one off’ers were for it. The party was not. Even if you believed they were for it, you would then have to believe the democrats were more than 20 years late in admitting it was a good idea, and also for the time period they had control of congress, from 1982 to 1995, a period of 13 years, they did nothing. So pot meet kettle. At absolute best, this would mean democrats were equal, but considering the 100′s of bills I mentioned above, I think not. Getting a few bills blocked (which the democrats panic on each time) is inherently different than having a dumb as hell leader say “you ride in the back” and literally tell you not one of your plans will be passed. Don’t tell me republicans are blocking democrats. They aren’t. They have had hundreds of plans blocked.

            You’re just plain wrong on your idea of conservatism, and I will ask you again:

            Why do so many have this same issue as you? Especially the youth, who are overwhelmingly democrat?

            Why don’t they see these things I’m talking about?

            You keep saying: it’s the republicans!

            Their plans are good. They can’t be making good plans and intentionally not marketing them. The only possibility is that democrats have had a foot hold since FDR and they won’t let it go.

            1959-1995 we didn’t have a republican majority once, before that we had 2 years 1957 to 1959, and that first year, they tried to pass a civil rights bill which democrats stone walled. The civil war. Segregation. The democrats have taken the wrong side every time. The people don’t change, they pass down their allegiance. You came, from racist segregation ancestors, and they merely changed their tone for the public. It was called the “republican revolution” for a reason Libby, republicans were all but wiped out after being (wrongly blamed) for the depression (which as a side comment Herbert Hoover basically raised minimum wage, something that until the 90′s we considered the biggest cause of the deepening of the depression, sound much like democrats now?). Your side has power that needs to be stopped at all costs.

          • June 11, 2014 at 12:39 pm
            Libby says:
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            “Why do so many have this same issue as you?”

            I’ve answered this question so many times for you and you refuse to accept my explanation.

            Your side does a crummy job of marketing themselves and they have done a HORRIBLE job of choosing the people to “represent” their party for them.

            Pick someone (actually more than one) halfway likeable and charismatic and get your message out. If you won’t accept that marketing your party is a big part of success then you are just out of touch with reality.

          • June 11, 2014 at 5:17 pm
            bob says:
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            http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-to-gop-%E2%80%98they-can-come-for-the-ride-but-they-have-to-sit-in-back/

            These are not the words of someone who is a good leader. These aren’t the words of someone who is compromising with republicans. This is exactly why republicans fought him with such voracity.

            He is openly stating that like Rosa Parks, Republicans should ride in the back (racism and bigotry ok as long as people don’t like you apparently)

            Libby, he wasn’t taking their ideas in the healthcare debate. This was his comment during that debate. Day one he said no to any of their ideas. Then he started to say he was doing their ideas because he had a mandate and exchanges.

            This was what, a 2,000 page bill, how many pages do you think the mandate and exchanges took up?

            It does not make it a republican bill to put in two items that are (supposedly) republican.

          • June 11, 2014 at 5:45 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            They are not out of touch with reality, and our people aren’t saying things like you ride in the back, and these people will put you back in chains (intentional to start race issues)

            Their medical plans are good.
            Their social security plans are the only ones that don’t only leave how much are we taxing for social security (aka 401k plans, roth plans, SRA and other plans)

            They are the only ones who have had new good plans.

            It is marketed. You don’t listen to the right companies, because your side has been successful as labeling those stations. I have given you the links. You didn’t see the links because you chose not to. Stop blaming the republicans for your ignorance. They can’t do your research for you, especially when you WANT to believe they are bad.

            Also: How is punishment a form of incentive?

            How about instead of a fine to encourage you,
            making health premiums deductible, and giving credits to buy it?

          • June 12, 2014 at 9:30 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – Was this before or after the Republican’s openly stated their one goal in life was to make Obama a one-term president? These are also not words of a leader:

            “The single most important thing we want to achieve,” McConnell said, “is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

            They figured that if they refused to cooperate on anything, they could later tell voters that the president hadn’t accomplished anything and that he had failed to reach across the aisle. McConnell and his caucus dove into that project hook, line and sinker, threatening to destroy the nation’s economy by not raising the debt limit, blocking jobs legislation, eschewing compromise on the Bush tax cuts, refusing to staff the newly-created Consumer Financial Protection Bureau or the National Labor Relations Board, and blocking even uncontroversial federal judicial nominees.

            How’d that strategy work out for you?

          • June 12, 2014 at 5:13 pm
            bob says:
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            There is nothing wrong with saying you want someone to be a one term president, when that president is a bad president.

            Should they have said their number one goal is to not run elections against Obama?

            GROW UP.

            And my references were both regarding racial charging in politics. Back in chains, back to the back of the bus?

            What I said was that if republicans had a choice in the healthcare plan, as you say they did, Obama would not have said such comments.

            He says one thing, that they are getting what they want, AND says they ride in the back?

            How exactly is that dominating the healthcare issues?

            That was HIM dominating them. That’s why it makes him a bad leader to say it.

            The republicans saying democrats don’t want republicans to win? Is a one sided, non two faced, comment. Perfectly fine.

            You are not balanced, you haven’t figured out the secret hypocrisy that makes republicans equal to democrats. Do you have any fucking idea how many 20 30 and 40 somethings think exactly as dumb as you?

            How many talk like me Libby, and be fucking honest. You always say they all do. NO. THEY. Don’t.

  • June 9, 2014 at 4:08 pm
    Agent says:
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    And your side said to get in the back of the bus, we are going to do it our way. Obama, you and Planet are all for single payer government run healthcare. We have noticed how that has worked out for the VA. An internal audit has revealed that 57,000 were on waiting lists for months and about 40 vets died waiting for treatment and that is just so far. Yes, we have seen how efficient the government is running healthcare or anything else for that matter. Please don’t try to say it was because of lack of funding. They have been getting funding, they are just incompetent.

    • June 9, 2014 at 4:38 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Agent – if you don’t want universal coverage, you are not obligated to use it. Go ahead and buy your own insurance. That’s how it is in the U.K. Ever heard of Harley Street doctors? Those are for the wealthy that prefer to forego universal coverage and purchase their own. It doesn’t always have to be one or the other, you know. You guys are so unimaginative.

      • June 10, 2014 at 1:57 pm
        bob says:
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        Universal coverage can be done with private as well Libby.

        We actually can’t opt into better coverage or Cadillac plans so to speak. The government would determine coverage levels.

        If I made a good living, and wanted to pay for a hip replacement coverage that would let me get it now, for example, and made a $50,000 income, (middle class) I could do that, and the whole middle class could do that with private insurance.

        Put in single payer, and it gets worse, services like that get back logged.

        It is exactly the middle class that gets harmed the most.

        In your scenario, the middle class has two options:

        accept the lowest level coverage for all,

        Or be out paid for by the rich, who can cut in line.

        What you just pointed out is exactly why the wealthy like the universal plans in UK: They can out pay you every time.

        • June 10, 2014 at 2:28 pm
          Libby says:
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          If universal coverage is provided for all, why can’t others that want to purchase additional coverage do so? It would create an entirely different health insurance market and products, similar to medicare supplement coverage.

          • June 10, 2014 at 2:42 pm
            bob says:
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            The government would not be able to invest without us becoming way too close to a communist nation.

            Too risky. You don’t trust government enough for that, neither do I.

            Why won’t you allow there to be private and public, if you are supposedly a moderate?

          • June 10, 2014 at 2:45 pm
            bob says:
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            I guess I should clarify further that in order for the government to match the efficiency of private, they would have to invest premiums paid in vs paid out.

            You’re in insurance. You know this.

            The investing allows for insurance companies to pay out slightly more than they receive each year. The government cannot do that.

            And, it creates more jobs, and more capital.

            Win, meet win.

            Why do you want to put the government in charge, cost healthcare jobs, remove the high paying underwriter jobs, and professional service jobs, when we already know it can be done by private with all those things?

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:27 pm
            Libby says:
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            I am allowing both public and private. And I don’t agree it would cost jobs. All of those people would still be needed to provide care, process claims, administer coverage, etc. And I don’t already know it can be done privately, because it hasn’t been. Not for 100% of Americans, it hasn’t.

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:04 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            First and foremost: Yes it has been done for 100% of Americans. We have medicaid for the poor and elderly, and medicare, and private. You cannot be refused treatment for catastrophic care. In terms of cancer, the only one that you might get denied care for, coincidentally the U.S. has equal if not better survival rates. Which means the 100% care countries are not 100% care. 100% insurance is not 100% care. You need to stop this argument. If what you were saying was true, 15% of our population would die from not having insurance, and it would affect our survival rates. As of now, despite having obesity rates 3 times that of Switzerland and Canada, homicide rates 2 times, vehicular deaths 3 times higher, we have a similar life expectancy. We do not, have, a health care problem in comparison to universal healthcare countries. Each of the 3 leading causes of death are impacted by obesity. Most people who are obese die much earlier, you won’t live past 60 with extreme care. This is just a fact. So the fact that these people are not dying in troves here, shows they get treatment. They then get a bill and go bankrupt, but they get treatment. They are not dying.

            All of the workers would be needed, but the government would not invest, and therefore would not have the same revenues coming in. Jobs would need to be cut. It is just a fact. The investments is key. You cannot say the government would do as good with 1 dollar, at least 10% costs, leaving 90% remaining, as opposed to the 1.0 to 1.09 combined ratio that you know all these insurance companies tend to have, (and that combined ratio is after overhead costs, and including salary jobs of $50,000 to $100,000 for the underwriters, and CEO’s) This creates incentive for the CEO’s to do better as well, allows high paying jobs which whether you like it or not is good, and good ol’ capitalism

            Have you looked into private vs public worker’s comp? This has been done before. You want us to pay those workers what, minimum wage, or maybe $30,000 a year? You know private sector is better at this.

            Above you didn’t say you allowed private and public. You said that private still existed in universal countries because you could pay for coverage yourself. Who has $200,000 dollars sitting around? Who even has $10,00 sitting around?

            You like universal systems, and that is a serious flaw.

            Both, fine. Liking universal is dangerous, and could only be due to emotional issues, not tangible ones, with the republican party. That is also dangerous.

            I know you thought I over stepped bounds with my Nazi comparison, but it is comparable. If we allow ourselves to think, oh dang it, those CNN and Fox News supporters (whether kotch bros, or jews) it will lead to the same power that Nazis had over their people. It has happened. It will happen again if you don’t watch it.

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:27 pm
            Libby says:
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            Providing universal care and in addition an option for buy-up coverage or totally separate is having both. How else would you propose doing both?

            And as far as the medicaid, medicare, insurance argument, we have had this ad nauseum. Not all “poor” people qualify for medicaid. They also cannot afford private. Those are the uninsured.

            Regarding trauma care versus healthcare, they are not one and the same. People DO die in America because they had no insurance to cover early detection, conservative treatment and preventive medicine.

            Going to the hospital with a broken leg will get you treatment (healthcare) on an emergency basis. You can not go into a hospital without insurance and say, I have a history of blah-blah in my family and want to have it checked out. You get that kind of healthcare when you have insurance.

          • June 10, 2014 at 6:39 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Yes, we have had this argument. Show me a number of people dying from lack of insurance, that is not matched by universal care lack of MRIs (we have way more MRI’s per thousand doctors) lack of treatment options, etc. The fact remains, if they were dying Libby, it would have to be 15% of the population.

            Anyone who does not qualify for medicaid and medicare, would be someone working. Anyone working gets insurance unless they are part time. Anyone working part time and going to school gets insurance from the school most of the time, because they would be low income. Anyone who doesn’t have medicare and medicaid and insurance, there is a law requiring care be given for any matters that require immediate attention. The only one that can get by this, is repeated treatments, like cancer, which sometimes, very rarely, aren’t treated. Then when we compare cancer survival rates, we are equal to universal care countries, despite being higher risk due to eating styles (obesity is less responsible for cancer than soda, twinkies type products, and mc donalds). So if our uninsured are dying, provide the area, the number, and explain why our life expectancy is equal to other countries, despite being fatter, at greater risk for cancer, diabetes, and heart attack, as well as homicide rates being double and vehicular being three times greater. The only possibility is that we are providing more care. Not less.

            Moving forward: Yes you can walk out and say you have a concern that requires preventative treatment (MRI, CAT SCAN etc). My brother just did it. They didn’t even ask for insurance. His leg was swelling on occasion, though not while we were there. They suggested an MRI. He got it done, paid out of pocket, no payment due at the time.

            What preventative treatment as a side comment Libby? Are you delusional as to what hospitals do?

            You keep comparing preventative to catastrophic. Preventative care is the lowest cost! You can absolutely go in and get preventative care. Even the higher costs my brother already did and got a bill, numerous times. My aunt went in with concerns she might be going blind, they checked, found an issue, and yup, she was going blind. Then they fixed it. No insurance, they just sent a bill. Of course she died some time later because the idiots had mersa in the hospital.

            You are creating scenarios that do not fit with reality, because you are indoctrinated on the left and you refuse to admit it.

            You have not once denounced a single hot item that was left leaning.

            Just admit you’re wrong on the health issue. It’s getting old.

          • June 10, 2014 at 6:46 pm
            bob says:
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            I guess to shorten it up:

            You are saying what is “possible” in our system.

            I like to talk the numbers.

            And here are the numbers: Obesity over 30%.

            greater than 90% of our population drinks fake sugars, sweeteners, in coffee, soda, and partially hydrogenated oils (banned in most universal healthcare countries on that last one)

            Why are we within a year or two of each of the best countries?

            Explain Libby. Why?

            You know we live worse than them. Smoking is more common here. Tobacco chew (leading to cancer).

            Why are our deaths equal if people aren’t getting treated?

            A lady just died in Canada and they didn’t have the type of funding to fly her out to a hospital as needed. I have personally in Washington witnessed several people flown to the hospital, middle class, when they had an injury. They received a hefty bill later, but, as that car commercial says “they lived.”.

            Health insurance is for catastrophic care. Life choices are for preventative.

            You list me one preventive care that would solve obesity, cancer, diabetes, and heart disease, that doesn’t involve mostly diet, and MRI’s, which we already have access for in this country.

            Pap smears and mammograms? They are covered, but even in the absence of being covered, they are cheap, and they bill you after doing it.

            What preventative care Libby? I’m tired of your what ifs. List it.

    • June 10, 2014 at 1:54 pm
      KY jw says:
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      Not all VA hospitals / clinics were audited. In fact it was a very small percentage of all VA locations.

      There are many that work very well. My husband has no problem getting appointments within days – 2 weeks was the longest he had to wait and that was because he had conflicts in his schedule. My dad also had no problem getting in within a couple days. Just because there are some useless administrators out there doesn’t mean they are all bad.

      • June 10, 2014 at 2:29 pm
        Libby says:
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        Right, KY. My dad got excellent long-term care at the V.A. at Ft. Bragg. My father-in-law and brother-in-law also use the facility and have no complaints.

      • June 10, 2014 at 4:15 pm
        uct says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        My dad had his cancer treated at the VA. After they botched his diagnosis for well over a year, he had to pay for a private doctor on his own. Problem solved. The VA did positively nothing for him. Had he stayed with their doctors, he would be dead today. They missed his cancer of the prostate for several years before a private doctor diagnosed it. He went back to the VA to save money as he’s older. The VA did nothing for him. I can’t say they are all bad as I don’t know that, but the one he went to would have put him in his grave had they continued to misdiagnose him.

        • June 10, 2014 at 4:17 pm
          uct says:
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          And I want to clarify what I mean by mis-diagnosis. They tried to tell him he had kidney problems associated with diabetes the first two years he went to the VA. He has no kidney problems. He had prostate cancer. If I could put into words how angry this makes me, I would, but I can’t. Again, I won’t say they are all bad, but I can tell you some of them need to be closed.

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:29 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’m sorry for the treatment your father received. That shouldn’t have happened.

            Did you dad serve in Vietnam? He may have contracted prostate cancer from Agent Orange and may be eligible for disability benefits from the government. That’s what killed my dad.

        • June 10, 2014 at 4:43 pm
          Agent says:
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          uct, one of my close friends had a gall bladder infection. He went to the VA and the yokels there had him on anti biotics and then said they didn’t have a general surgeon to take it out. It got worse and worse and finally he had to check himself out and come back home and have it done privately. When I visited him in the hospital, he said his doctor told him he would have lasted no more than a week before he was dead. The infection had spread to the intestines and part of them had to be removed. He had a tough recovery, but is ok now. I’m sure that Harry Reid will say these stories are all lies made up by the Koch Brothers and have no merit.

          • June 11, 2014 at 12:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            Just WHY did you thumb me down for giving uct my condolences on the treatment her father received? You’re a sick human being.

    • June 10, 2014 at 2:48 pm
      Agent says:
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      Isn’t that a funny post Libby? If Obama had more backbone, we would have something just like the VA has currently. Wow, how wonderful that is? Massive waits, massive fraud, massive mismanagement, poor service. The major blunder by your President was to force feed the American People his utopian dream that he had no clue how to manage and make work. Now, his signature legislation is one of failure to deliver. The headlines continue to play out as we see on how bad this all is.

      • June 11, 2014 at 2:57 pm
        Agent says:
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        Libby, if you are talking to me, it wasn’t me downthumbing you on a condolence. I don’t have a problem with that. Why did you downthumb me on my response to uct when I told him my friends story which is true by the way.

        • June 11, 2014 at 3:04 pm
          Libby says:
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          Because of your last sentence.

          • June 11, 2014 at 3:25 pm
            Agent says:
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            You certainly can’t handle the truth Libby and don’t listen to your own leaders when they spout off their lies like Hillary, Reid, Obama etc.

          • June 11, 2014 at 3:32 pm
            Libby says:
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            As an American, they’re your leaders, too.

          • June 11, 2014 at 5:11 pm
            bob says:
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            No. They aren’t.

            We don’t run by a “follow the leader” mindset in America.

            We run by a “make a new leader” mindset.

            The moment you say it is an insult to not follow someone, and it’s an ok statement, is the moment our country falls apart.

            He isn’t our leader. We don’t follow him. We don’t share the same beliefs.

          • June 12, 2014 at 9:34 am
            Libby says:
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            Fair enough. Don’t follow him. He’s still the POTUS.

  • June 10, 2014 at 9:37 am
    Agent says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    So what you are saying Libby is that 300 million have to have low performing expensive inefficient single payer health insurance and the elite can buy their own. That sounds about right for the elitists politicians and movers and shakers in business and to heck with the masses, right? I hate to tell you and Planet, but you are neither a politician or a mover and shaker so you would be stuck with the alternative and it is not a pretty sight. Ask any veteran how his VA coverage is working for him.

    • June 10, 2014 at 10:26 am
      Libby says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • June 10, 2014 at 11:02 am
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Really Libby? Just when I think you might get back on track with reasonable comments, you reach a new low. You are getting down there in boogereater and Ins 102 territory. That is not a good place to be. What makes you think the poor cannot get coverage? They do have Medicaid and that is single payer that costs them basically nothing to get. How can you possibly defend the VA given the facts that have come out about them. Do you never see the news at all or are you just stuck on Huffington Post or MSNBC. One of my friends nearly died at their hands 3 months ago for lack of treatment. Thank goodness, he had other resources and was able to get his life saving surgery privately. A lot of vets can’t do that and end up dying at their hands. Yes, I served 4 years, about half of it overseas during the Vietnam War and I am eligible, but they will never see me on their doorstep. I don’t have a deathwish like your family does. Keep on using them and see what happens.

        • June 10, 2014 at 11:17 am
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          I’ve known people that have died or almost died at the hands of a civilian hospital and doctor, too. So what?

          And newsflash, Agent, not all poor people are eligible for Medicaid. If you work a $11 and hour job, that could disqualify you. I’d like to see you try to live and support your family on $11 an hour, including health insurance. You’re an entitled moron that knows nothing about how the other half lives. Typical Republican.

          • June 10, 2014 at 12:07 pm
            Agent says:
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            2.9 million applied for Medicaid and their applications have not been processed yet. Who is responsible for that, the Koch brothers? By the way, your hated Koch Brothers just made a $25 million contribution to the United Negro College fund for scholarships. They are such bad people, right?

          • June 10, 2014 at 12:15 pm
            Libby says:
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            Yes, Agent, more people are eligible for Medicaid under the ACA. That still is not the same as universal healthcare coverage. I know you don’t understand the mechanics nor the nuances of the issues, so I will not try to explain them.

            What does a scholarship to the UNC have to do with price of tea in China? Way to deflect the attention away from the issue at hand.

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:42 pm
            FFA says:
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            Eligible buy not insured due to lack of qualified people to get the job done as well as the goof ball navigators and the Help Desk at Health Care . Gov.

            Baby born Mid March still has not received her decline from Medicare so I can add the baby onto moms policy. Even if baby is eligible, mom dont want to be that leach on society. She want to pay her own way. Healthcare.gov also told her she didnt have maternity. Still takes hours to talk to someone then you get hit or miss if they are some incompetent twit or they actually know what they are doing / talking about…

            this is the worst intrusion of Govt into pvt industry that ever was in my life time. Not likely to get any better any time soon.

          • June 10, 2014 at 5:53 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, your response is much like the Progressives you love so much. What possible difference does it make at this point? So what! Sorry, you are not getting off the VA hook so easily. Their level of incompetence is unparalleled in the history of medicine and they are crooks to boot fudging their numbers while vets were dying. This administration should do the right thing and give all vets vouchers to get treated right away by private doctors and hospitals, but I doubt they will.

        • June 10, 2014 at 1:59 pm
          bob says:
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          • June 10, 2014 at 2:32 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            And you’re proud of that, aren’t you Bob? I didn’t go for your throat, I merely disagreed with you. But that’s enough for you to “go for the face.” Anger issues anyone?

          • June 10, 2014 at 2:55 pm
            Agent says:
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            You are right Bob. She is much like her beloved Pit Bulls who go for the jugular vein. By the way, notice the deflection when I said that 2.9 million signed up for Medicaid and their applications have not been processed and she said more are eligible for Medicaid under the ACA. If they are eligible, why can’t they get processed for coverage? Could our stupid bureaucrats be responsible for that? I heard today that the VA was using software for appointments that dates back to 1985 as testified by a VA official. No wonder they had such a backlog. Why was their system never updated when they have received very adequate funding for many years? The quick answer is they are total incompetents.

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:34 pm
            Libby says:
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            I think pit bulls go for the face, Agent.

          • June 11, 2014 at 4:54 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Since when did saying you did something mean you are proud of it? You push people’s buttons intentionally don’t you? Just the phrase you just said about me being proud about it makes me want to smack you.

            Moving on: You did not merely disagree. You insulted. Disagreeing with numbers is one thing. You made a source war, you also threw in insults not regarding sources regarding my education on the matter, which is why I said I think my brother knows more than you.

            I don’t care about your argument. It can be whatever. I do care about your tone you give. It is rude. I left that one because it wasn’t worth continuing and you were out of control.

          • June 11, 2014 at 4:56 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Pit bulls go for the neck, latch on, and then since they have lock jaw they shake their head. It’s supposed to cut the jugular and be a near instant death strike. Of course their teeth aren’t nearly as efficient as a Dobberman for that (I experienced that one first hand when I broke up a dog fight back in my teens, pit bulls break bones without leaving much of a mark, the person who got attacked by the doberman was seriously torn up) Agent is technically correct but I don’t really care.

          • June 11, 2014 at 5:03 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            I did see that. I was more intrigued by your comment about the Koch bros though. She side stepped it and said it wasn’t relevant. I think it is, when it comes to the fact that she says for some reason if they finance anything whatever the finance must be bad, and she is all over the koch bros like white on rice constantly.

            $25 million is a lot for a good purpose.

            Some businesses finance campaigns against the government and for good change, because they are the only ones who can. The government has done a good job of dominating most political fields, someone has to break it. Instead, the fact that they are in business means they are no longer an American to Libby (though she doesn’t even realize it and doesn’t do it intentionally) she disregards any wealthy person who puts input on the economy (with the exception of the actual bad ones like Warren Buffet). Unlike her, I trust capitalism. It works. Regulated capitalism is the cause of most our issues.

            Libby tends to think a business donating and being active is the equivalent to cronyism. I bet you money, she thinks that makes the koch bros guilty of cronyism, which really just shows she needs to get a better understanding of what it is.

          • June 11, 2014 at 5:06 pm
            bob says:
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            Funny thing on that she went for the throat I went for the face:

            It really does spell out our relationship, Libby and I, agent!

            When it comes to dogs, a blow to the head will usually land it unconscious. That’s the way that doberman was dealt with.

            The doberman (Libby) went for my throat (debate style for the kill) and I went for the doberman’s face (knock out).

            This really brings back memories of that dog fight!

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:16 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – you do know I’m here, right? You talk about me like I’m not.

            It’s funny you think you can expound on what I think and feel, yet you have never met me. Here is a short list of your recent ASSumptions about me that are false:

            1) She says for some reason if they finance anything whatever the finance must be bad. FALSE I said the Koch Bros financing a “study” denying climate change did not make it a valid “study.”

            2) Instead, the fact that they are in business means they are no longer an American to Libby. FALSE Where the hell do you get this stuff?

            3) She disregards any wealthy person who puts input on the economy (with the exception of the actual bad ones like Warren Buffet). FALSE I have no problem with wealthy people. Only the ones that use their wealth to buy votes.

            4) Unlike her, I trust capitalism. FALSE I believe in capitalism.

            5) Libby tends to think a business donating and being active is the equivalent to cronyism. FALSE Financing a study to debunk what is proven science is NOT donating. The fact that KB donated to the Negro College Fund does not mean anything to me one way or another. I’m sure there was a reason for them to do this that benefited them.

            And this comment takes the cake! “I don’t care about your argument. It can be whatever. I do care about your tone you give. It is rude.” LMFAO!!!! This coming from the man that “hands me my head”, “goes for my face”, insults me and calls me names! That is rich, my friend.

          • June 12, 2014 at 5:16 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Come on. I don’t talk about you like you’re not here.

            I would have to be talking about myself like I wasn’t here. Seeing as I related myself in poor light too, like we dog fight.

            You always say laugh a little. Don’t take everything so seriously.

            You’re being an intolerable jerk.

    • June 10, 2014 at 1:56 pm
      KY jw says:
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      Again, Agent, the VA has well operated hospitals and clinics. Don’t write them all off.

      • June 10, 2014 at 2:58 pm
        Agent says:
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        If you don’t mind KY, I will avoid them at all costs. The tip of the iceberg has just been revealed.

        • June 10, 2014 at 3:08 pm
          FFA says:
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          Wasnt one of the “bad VA” the Hines center in – you guessed it – Illinois?

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:30 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, I have lost count and it was up to 26 hospitals with major problems the last I saw. I think it was a pandemic of biblical proportions. These so called administrators were collecting bonuses on our dime for fudging their appointment records. They should be in jail for this, but wonderful Eric Holder will probably not prosecute them. Why should he? He hasn’t prosecuted anyone else for wrongdoing and is one that is in Contempt of Congress himself for Fast & Furious. Aren’t these people just wonderful?

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:57 pm
            FFA says:
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            The accusation I am hearing on the news at Hines is that they were letting people die to keep down expenses so they could hit their bonus money.

      • June 11, 2014 at 5:08 pm
        Agent says:
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        Thanks for the correction on the dogs Bob. We had a savage debate on them a few weeks ago. There is a good reason why Pit Bulls are the most feared dog and the #1 forbidden dog with Insurance carriers. They cause more serious maulings, deaths & bite claims than all other breeds combined. #2 are Rottwilers, #3 are Doberman’s, #4 are Chows. All the others fall way back of these.

        • June 11, 2014 at 7:13 pm
          bob says:
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          I’m surprised dobermans aren’t number 1.

          You should have seen what the doberman did to the girl. I just had a busted up hand, the teeth didn’t do much piercing or tearing at all.

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:18 am
            Libby says:
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            Yeah, blame the dog not the owner. I bet the rape victim was just asking for it, too, huh?

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:17 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Did I blame the dog?

            Pit bulls have lock jaw and Doberman’s, when they attack, have extremely large teeth, that have dips and jaggies, (look at other dogs some time. Dobermans have very different teeth) and it tears. A chihuahua doesn’t tear.

            But moreover, yes, Pitbulls and rotties, and doberman dogs were all breed to bring out “jealous” traits, in order to make a watch dog. They do have traits that make them more prone to attack.

            You keep saying not to blame the breed, but have you studied dog breeds at all?

            The “jealous” trait does not always turn into violence. But the moment for example, an environment changes, like a new home, and a new pack unit arrives (a baby) there is risk that no human can ignore. After Katrina a pit killed a child due to this. You can’t train for that Libby.

            And comparing rape victims is not ok.

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:35 pm
            Libby says:
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            Not only do I study breeds, I am an avid dog lover and pet(s) owner. I have personal experience with pit bulls and understand their traits. However, it is incumbent upon a pet owner to not only train it’s animal (to their best ability) but to be sure they are never in a position to harm another.

            And just for your edification, Pit Bulls do not have any special physical mechanism or enzyme that allows them to “lock” their jaws. If you compare a Pit Bull skull to a skull of any other dog breed, you can see with the naked eye that both skulls share the same characteristics and general bone structure.

            http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php?gclid=CIGvjqri9L4CFUOXOgodQxQAIg

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:13 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Pretty much all dogs do lock jaw, whether by mechanism or just simply keeping their mouth shut. Pit bulls just happen to be good at it.

            And on being an avid dog researcher, the girl I was with was a dog trainer, and veterinary assistant, grand fathered into vet tech. The dogs were never harmed.

            Dogs with aggressive behavior can become aggressive for life, from something as simple as one dog decides on a given day to eat out of another’s food bowl. That is what had these dogs start to not like each other, one time, just once, when they were puppies Jadzia ate K’lar’s food. K’lar attacked even as a puppy, and then they kept them in separate kennels, and made sure they were watched at all times when they were outside together, or one back yard one front yard. And even though it happened years prior they kept the dogs separated ever since. The ONE day that they were in a house together, (a new house) they attacked each other. My girlfriend and I got in between. The doberman tore my girlfriend to shreds. There was blood everywhere. The pit bull broke my hand without leaving much of a mark. I knew the dogs well. They were not trained poorly. They were made home made meals, and were treated very well. Dobermans and Pitt bulls will be naturally aggressive to outsiders, and or in new environments and you are right, it takes considerable training to stop. Which means, it is the dog that you have to train and the owners can fail without being bad owners.

            As for my example with children and new environments, you cannot train the breed out of that possibility. You go tell the parents of that child that they trained their pit bull wrong and it was their fault m’kay?

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:21 pm
            Libby says:
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            First of all, to have a pit bull and doberman in the same household is foolish, at best.

            Second, you don’t just train the dog. You also train the owner.

            Third, you don’t let your aggressive dog around other dogs or children. That’s part of being a responsible pet owner.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:31 pm
            bob says:
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            First of all:

            If having a doberman and a pitbull in the same house is stupid, it’s stupid because of the breed. Also: When do you expect they might cross in the real world? Because the moment a pet is ok with attacking another it is ok with attacking a human being. Have you been around owners who were attacked, and seen their methods? I have.

            Second:

            No. In the case I said you train the dog. Vet tech. I was talking about if you own a dog, to be a responsible owner, you have to train the dog. I am making the assumption of a good owner. You are making the assumption of a bad. I’m talking a perfectly good owner. And the first thing they have to do, is train the dog so it doesn’t attack. That means the dog is a problem.

            And third:

            Don’t let your dog around “other” aggressive dogs or children?

            That is a paradox, that proves aggressive dogs will always be aggressive, and still shows the owners are training around the dog’s aggression, therefore, it is the breed.

            Also: Don’t have kids if you have a pitbull? Don’t live in an area where the house might be destroyed with a pit bull? Are you crazy? They were in the middle of Katrina. They didn’t have an outfit for the dog. The dog was the risk. Not them.

            You need to apologize for your statement to that family NOW.

            I will not accept your comment regarding an innocent child’s death while you blame the parents and not the DOG that killed it.

            The dogs that attacked my ex and I were the problem. Not my ex, who sheltered animals, more than you have ever engaged I am sure, and myself, who also took in animals to shelter. My cat became a suckler and completely attached to me. My cats acted like dogs. My dogs, loved me and her. I had doberman’s since. Even Zeus, the most gentle, would always have the ridge on his back go up at dog parks. And I knew if he was put in the wrong circumstance, with a baby alone or with another dog, he would attack.

            If being responsible is not allowing a dog to be in that position, being responsible is also acknowledging that the dog is aggressive, and it is the breed.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:37 pm
            Libby says:
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            I never said aggressiveness is not in the breed, bob. Where did you learn to read???

            I said, if you have an aggressive dog you should not allow it around other dogs &/or children. Is that not true?

            I also said don’t ONLY train the dog, you also train the owner. I can’t drop my dog off at the trainer and pick it up trained. I have to be trained, as well.

            My remark about not letting aggressive dogs around children was not directed to the family in Louisiana, you moron. It was directed to owners of aggressive dogs.

            Get a life.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:38 pm
            Libby says:
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            And YES. Don’t have kids if you have a pit bull. Or don’t get a pit bull if you have kids. It’s pretty simple, even for a moron like you.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:41 pm
            Libby says:
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            And this dog fight between a pit bull and a doberman was entirely your girlfriend’s fault. If she were really a vet tech, she would have known not to have those two breeds in the same household – let alone feed them together. She’s as big a moron as you are.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:43 pm
            bob says:
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            Dobermans Rotties and Pit bulls are dogs you don’t own kids with,

            Because they are dangerous breeds.

            If you need a trained owner.

            It’s because the breed has issues. End of story Libby. The dogs are problems.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            But then again, she had you for a boyfriend…

            Yup! Moron.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:04 pm
            bob says:
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            If you aren’t supposed to have two breeds in one household, it is the breed.

            She thought the same as you, that training could stop it.

            Training didn’t stop it.

            So it is the breed.

            Just admit it and shut up.

            When dogs attack no matter what when exposed to each other,

            Their breed is a problem.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:06 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Fuck you.

            You cannot say phrases like that to me.

            The reason we end up fighting all the time isn’t me. It is you saying crap like “romney loots and pillages!” and then you don’t back up your argument. That is a fighting phrase.

            While I say:

            Hillary doesn’t create jobs by giving speeches. Romney does through making firms profitable.

            And then you go off your rocker saying I insulted Hillary.

            It is not the same.

            I don’t really care about the swearing at you at that point, because you are just a vindictive bitch, not worth my time. We are done in this article again, later!

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:07 pm
            bob says:
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            And then you say “Yup, moron, she was with you!”

            So she clearly knows nothing about dogs.

            A+ for arguing style, you worthless piece of trash.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:36 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – you have failed, once again, to address my original comment.

            PLEASE POINT OUT WHERE I SAID BREED WAS NOT A FACTOR?

            You can’t, so now you can shut the fuck up.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:37 pm
            Libby says:
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            And Romney IS a looter and pillager, as BACKED UP by the link I provided.

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:02 pm
            Libby says:
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            And just to be clear, Bob. I said, and I quote:

            “Yeah, blame the dog not the owner.” I said nothing about breed.

            You just make shit up as you go along.

          • June 12, 2014 at 5:02 pm
            bob says:
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            Don’t ask me if it’s simple enough for me.

            Back on point to my original comment:

            I am surprised that dobermans aren’t higher on the list.

            Is that simple enough for you?

            The breed is a greater risk. Stop with the bull crap. You went on a tirade of crap because I said I’m surprised that dobermans aren’t higher on the list? And my argument was actually in terms of how much damage they can do when they attack vs the number of attacks.

            Doberman’s teeth are horrible. They tear like crazy when they shake their head. Thus why blood was everywhere, from my ex getting torn apart.

          • June 12, 2014 at 5:03 pm
            bob says:
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            Saying blame the dog not the owner, is disregarding the risk of the dog / breed.

            Just knock it off.

            Dogs are risks, based on breed more than owner.

        • June 12, 2014 at 1:42 pm
          bob says:
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          Let me give some background Libby:

          I owned two german sort hair pointers. These two dogs, were the sweetest dogs I have ever had.

          I had a doberman and a pit bull that when I got with my ex I helped care for. These two dogs were the most jealous and violent.

          I had a doberman and a min pin. The min pin was basically always aggressive, but didn’t attack. The doberman was extremely gentle. He was a great dog. But he still panicked and got jealous often wen he was in new environments. I liked to call him “dopey”. The way he ran in water was hilarious. But at the same time as being generally care free and dopey, every now and again he would completely go into a mode where he would attack if the thing he was worried about got close to him. This could be something as simple as a large person, don’t ask me why, he didn’t like large people. He didn’t like kids.

          I took care of a rottie, well quite few rotties and dobermans. Oddly they get along with each other. But they do not get along with other dogs.

          Then there are my experiences with dogs like labs, collies, and mixed breeds. Isis never once threatened anything. The lab only became violent after it went blind, deaf, and was extremely ill (like most dogs will do). The collie was very friendly.

          All same owners, same care takers. So why the difference Libby?

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:47 pm
            Libby says:
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            Read my lips you ignorant turd.

            I NEVER SAID AGGRESSIVENESS WASN’T IN THE BREED. I said it’s up to the owners to be responsible if they own an aggressive breed.

            And yes, training DOES help with behavior. It won’t change a trait, but you can train the behavior somewhat.

            It seems you had many aggressive dogs and only one that was not. Seems there’s a trend there with the owner…

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:08 pm
            bob says:
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            You said:

            It wasn’t the breed, it was the owner.

            It is the breed.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:42 pm
            Libby says:
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            The breed will determine the dog’s traits.

            It’s up to the owner to protect others from an aggressive dog. It’s not the dog’s fault if they act like a dog.

            Is that simple enough for you?

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            I said:

            “Yeah, blame the dog not the owner.” Nothing there about breed.

            You twist words around to suit yourself and I WILL NOT stand for it. You are a liar.

          • June 12, 2014 at 6:00 pm
            bob says:
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            Fuck you!

            This liar crap is out of line. I don’t twist anything. That’s you. What I do, is switch talking style, as do you.

            Why don’t we stick to the concepts?

            I said I’m surprised dobermans aren’t at the top.

            You said yeah blame the dog.

            My concept has been overwhelmingly the same, which is YES BLAME THE DOG in the case of violent breeds.

            You have consistently said it is the owner. Which disregards the fact that there are violent breeds.

            I will not blame the owner, for the fact that doberman have teeth that are terrible and can do massive damage. I won’t blame the owner for the dog attack either, as she is a vet tech. She raised Jad’zia fine.

            The dog is to blame in the case of bad breeds.

          • June 16, 2014 at 11:27 am
            Libby says:
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            The dog is not to blame for being a DOG. If the owner can’t handle that breed, they shouldn’t own that breed. It is 100% the owners responsibility to make sure their dog does not have the opportunity to attack a person or another dog.

          • June 16, 2014 at 11:29 am
            Libby says:
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            And yes, if you step in between two dogs fighting (especially a doberman and a pit bull) you are a MORON. Throw a bucke to water on them. That will separate them. Then you grab their collar and put their hind quarters between your legs dragging them apart. You’d think a vet tech would know that.

      • June 11, 2014 at 5:24 pm
        Agent says:
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        Yes Bob, the left is constantly on the attack against the evil Koch Brothers. I wonder sometime how many of the leftist rich have made a donation of that size to a worthy organization. They are notoriously stingy with their money to charity as shown on tax records. Now that Hillary & Bill are worth north of $100 million, do you think they are donating much of that personal wealth to charity? I know he has a foundation, but how much is his in it?

        • June 11, 2014 at 7:15 pm
          bob says:
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          Did you know that a huge sum of his wealth actually came after his presidency and books etc?

          *shakes head*

          Go into office and sleep with a girl, and apparently you can write a book and make money off of it.

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:19 am
            Libby says:
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            He never slept with her.

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:18 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            You always argue on minor points, would you rather I say get your dick sucked and write a book about it? It’s worse.

            Not to mention:

            I severely doubt a relationship would ever be purely oral.

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:38 pm
            Libby says:
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            It was hardly a “relationship.” You could have said had oral sex to be accurate. You never worry too much about details, though, do you?

            And I wasn’t aware his book was about his sex life with Miss Lewinski. Another stretch of the truth, bob-style.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:44 pm
            bob says:
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            Again with semantics,

            A sexual relationship is a relationship Libby!

            And the fact that you are just so disgusting of a human being to point out that minor detail shows a lot about you.

            Sick.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:46 pm
            bob says:
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            When did you last see a girl who would be ok with a purely sexual relationship in which she only sucked cock?

            Since you want to be vulgar so will I.

            I know of only one, which I won’t go into. And that one, always has sex included in it at some point if the sexual relationship goes on for a prolonged period of time.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            I want to be vulgar? You’re the only vulgar one here bob.

            And when was the last time I saw a girl only satisfied with oral sex? When she’s an intern in the White House and trying to please the POTUS. It wasn’t a love affair, stupid. She was getting high off of blowing the pres.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:10 pm
            bob says:
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            Saying he never “had sex with her” is vulgar.

            You are trying to define the sex. In my book, sucking someone’s cock is a form of sex.

            besides which, “sleeping with” someone isn’t “sex” either Libby. I don’t think when people have sex they are “sleeping” do you?

            So you clearly took something that wasn’t vulgar, and made it vulgar. And I’ll give it to you vulgar when you do.

            You will act polite, you will respond how one should respond, or I will knock you upside the head, got it?

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            You’re an idiot.

            I said he didn’t SLEEP with her, you moron. I never said ANYTHING about SEX. You did.

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:18 pm
            FFA says:
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            just a thought…. Your both vulgar and should throttle back a bit…

            just my opinion. Your both embarrassing your selves.

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’m not embarrassed, FFA. He starts it and I’ll be damned if I won’t finish it.

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:26 pm
            Libby says:
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            And the most vulgar thing I said was for him to go suck it. That doesn’t really rank way up there to me.

            He’s the one with the vulgar language here, not me.

        • June 12, 2014 at 10:27 am
          Libby says:
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          You mean Democrats like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Michael Bloomberg who have all committed to giving away half of their mulit-billion dollar fortunes? I didn’t see the Koch Brothers on that list. Combined they have as much money as Bill Gates ($72B with a “B”) so $25M is a drop in the tax-deductible bucket to them.

          Both you and bob have a distorted image of Democrats. Not surprising, really.

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:24 pm
            bob says:
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            I mentioned Warren Buffet. And he is not a good guy. We already have studies regarding capital gains taxes, and they don’t bring in additional revenues. If he wanted to pay more taxes, he could. If Bill wanted to pay more taxes, he could. They are liars for public opinion.

            The majority of CEO’s who are democrat, are so in order to not have the public ask questions about what they think about social hot issues, or to basically have you be able to say “he’s democrat, he likes me!” remind me, what happened to that CEO recently who resigned because of LBGT issues?

            Your comment only proves what you think about republicans is wrong.

            If a CEO owner is democrat it’s a good thing, if they (koch) are a republican question them?

            WHY?

            You just questioned why Koch bros wasn’t on the list. Well let me ask you why Warren buffet is? Could it also be an ulterior motive?

            You need to see all sides to the picture. You try to spell out motivations before you even acknowledge the why someone is republican as a CEO.

            The answer is DHT in Oregon, UPS in Ohio, Comcast in Washington State, JP Morgan Chase on the federal level, CRA regs on the federal level, preferential treatment in the tax code on the federal level, and general government decisions on the business level.

            Plenty of (jewish) businesses were not on the Nazi bandwagon. And Hitler said to question them.

            Are we back on that route of reasoning, rather than actually analyzing the two parties?

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob, you’re an idiot. I was responding to Agent’s assertion that wealthy democrats are stingy and do not give to charities.

            I then pointed out that Gates, Buffet and Bloomberg have all made “The Giving Pledge.” This is a pledge to GIVE AWAY half of their fortunes. Check it out – the Koch name is nowhere on the list. So did they donate $25M? Yeah, so what? These people are giving away Billions (with a B). Go suck it.

            http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Making-a-difference/Change-Agent/2011/0511/Giving-Pledge-A-big-hearted-billionaires-club-led-by-Bill-Gates-and-Warren-Buffett-keeps-growing

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:02 pm
            bob says:
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            You replied to both of us, and said I am clueless on democrats.

            I am not clueless. I mentioned Warren Buffet in my commentary of democrats who are liars, and support a tax plan mainly in order to be likeable. The numbers don’t support the tax plan, neither the revenues or benefits, (which are non existent due to the harm on the economy).

            $72B with a B is not their cash. It is all their assets.

            Even so, in 10 years that would be $250,000,000, which would be a considerable sum of cash, and that is just one aspect of charity they give to. I am sure they don’t make $72 billion a year, that is their life’s work. Those numbers are favorable.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:54 pm
            Libby says:
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            You call Warren Buffet a liar because he supports a tax plan that you don’t agree with? And just FYI – the Giving Pledge members pledged to give 50% or more of their wealth to charity. An estimate of the contribution promised by the first 40 donors, based on their aggregate wealth as at August 2010, was at least $125 billion.

            And again, Koch Brothers are not on the list. And the Koch Brothers did not give $25M of their own money to the NCF – they gave corporate money.

            The people I am talking about are giving away HALF of their PERSONAL FORTUNE. And the ones I listed are all Democrat.

            And, as an aside, here is an interesting article about the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Not looking to favorable for your side.

            http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/12/do-democrats-make-better-neighbors/354676/

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:05 pm
            bob says:
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            I can call him a liar, because he supports a tax plan based on “fairness” and claims it would increase revenues and help the poor, whereas research shows that capital gains tax increases do not increase revenues.

            You are just inept.

            And you can call Romney a looting pillaging corporate fuck (more or less)

            Without fact checking that? See my link below.

            I don’t randomly call people liars or looters or pillagers.

            You are insane.

            And I’m not going to treat you with respect any longer. You either back off and admit you were wrong for what you said on the girlfriend front, and others, how you handled it, or I’ll clean your mouth out with soap (metaphorically speaking, I mean I will make your life hell.)

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:11 pm
            bob says:
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            I can also call him a liar,

            Because he can send in a check for more if he thinks he is under paying.

            It’s a gimmick.

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:12 pm
            Libby says:
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            Too late for that Bob, you’ve already made my life hell with your constant stalking and harranguing me.

            I CAN call Romney a looter and corporate raider, because that’s what he did. Whether the company was failing or not. He put plenty of them out of business. I did fact check it.

            And last time I checked, poor people did not have any issue with capital gains – BECAUSE THEY HAVE NONE. Capital gains will affect someone like YOU, but not poor people. Make a windfall? Pay up. I see nothing wrong with that.

            And I will not apologize. She obviously was a moron to be dating you. I can only imagine about your wife. SHE married you! Yikes.

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:14 pm
            Libby says:
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            He’s giving his money to charity, not the Government.

            HALF. OF. IT.

            Koch Bros??? Not so much.

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:18 pm
            Libby says:
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            “And I’m not going to treat you with respect any longer.” Don’t make me laugh.

            You have NEVER treated me with respect. That’s the reason I treat you the way I do. I tried an olive branch several times only to have you spit on me.

            What I notice about you, is once I make my point, you disappear. And yet you are so fond of saying you “handed me my head.” Yeah, until I served you yours on a silver platter, pal.

            See above re:

            1) Giving pledge (so much for stingy Democrats)
            2) Breed comment – I never mentioned breed
            3) Vulgar comment – I never mentioned sex, you did.

            Now. Are you done? If so, go suck it.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:59 pm
            bob says:
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            When a company is failing, you lay people off.

            You can’t say whether it was failing or not,

            Without noting the companies he stopped from failing,
            and the jobs he made from those firms that would have failed that mushroomed.

            This is how capital works. Have you done stocks? You remove funds from the ones that will fail. If owners throw money at a failing inefficient company, everyone suffers more.

            You don’t get to label that as an emotional flame war, or against those people. Greater good is the concept here. Either have 4,000 inefficient jobs going nowhere, or revise the company to buckle down and have 8,000 later on, while laying of 2000 in the mean time.

            If those jobs were active while the firm was struggling, they would not be able to invest. This is why we call it “investment” type firms, and why it is bain “capital”. It’s about growing capital. If you keep people employed at inflated rates, that is why companies fail.

          • June 13, 2014 at 3:41 pm
            bob says:
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            I had posted a link here regarding all of the koch bros charity work.

            The one agent listed is not the only one.

            They give quite a bit.

            And if we are going by charity, Biden gives less than 10%, Romney gives almost 30%. So should we now trust Romney?

          • June 16, 2014 at 11:32 am
            Libby says:
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            The amount of charitable donations has nothing to do with “trust.” This all stemmed from a remark by Agent that stingy democrats. I posted information disputing his assertion. That’s all. You don’t need to get your bowels in an uproar over it.

    • June 11, 2014 at 6:18 pm
      Agent says:
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      You are right Bob. We don’t share the same beliefs with leftists like Obama. He may be President currently, but thank God for not much longer. This country is devoid of leadership and is like a ship without a rudder drifting in the wind.

  • June 10, 2014 at 11:05 am
    FFA says:
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    Saw an interview with Hillary this Am on the news. She stated they left the White House Broke and way in debt. She cited legal fees and mortgages.

    So here is the logical side of my brain working today. Why would she go back for round two of the same? End up broke and in debt again? The interviewer stated they were making millions for speaking engagements charging $30,000 per chat.

    I also remember her being booed off stage at the Concert for New York following the 911 attack.

    I stuck my hand in the fire only once.

    • June 10, 2014 at 11:19 am
      Libby says:
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      She hasn’t said she’s coming back for more, FFA. Unless she made that announcement in her interview this morning.

      • June 10, 2014 at 11:42 am
        FFA says:
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        She would not say yes or no. She stated it was a personal decision and they left the white house broke and in debt. She made reference to life being easier since they left (my words, not hers).

        • June 10, 2014 at 11:57 am
          Libby says:
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          I don’t know why she’d want to go back, either, but I hope she does. She’s got my vote.

        • June 10, 2014 at 12:04 pm
          Agent says:
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          Yes FFA, I am really sure the Clinton’s were broke when they left office. They bought the house in Chappequa for $1.7 million, the town house in Georgetown and of course the office & apartment in Harlem. They just live just like the common folks, don’t they? I guess that Presidential retirement just doesn’t go very far anymore. I have seen reports that they have accumulated $111 million since leaving office. Now, she gets the Senate retirement and Secretary of State retirement plus all the speaking engagements, book deal etc. I feel so sorry for the Clintons.

          • June 10, 2014 at 1:53 pm
            FFA says:
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            You forgot to mention their house on Megans Bay, St Thomas in the Caribbean. From the tour boat I was on, looked to be in excess of 5000 sq feet.

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:56 pm
            txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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            Heh Heh, Daddy I’m 30 and I think it’s time I git me a job, buy me a ball team Heh Heh. Daddy, Ima run to Alabama for a year and git my drink on Heh Heh, Pay for that too, Heh Heh. Daddy, Sammy Sosa, Raphael Palmero, and Jose Canseco want some steroids Heh Heh, we’re playin’ fair Heh Heh.

          • June 11, 2014 at 10:47 am
            FFA says:
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            One more point on Hillary and her Financial Woos…
            If she cant manage her finances being one of the 1% ers, how the hell will she properly manage the financial issues of the country?

            Another reason to not vote for her is she does decide to run.

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:29 am
            Libby says:
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            FFA – you’re broke, too. Does that mean you can’t handle your finances? The fact that they were broke, did NOT go bankrupt, and now are millionaires certainly proves they can handle their finances. Maybe you should get some financial advice from them to improve your situation.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:13 pm
            FFA says:
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            I am saddled by Med Bills. Now, issues with parents and my daughter, Legal Bills been piling up. Had to pull $5000 out of my pocket out of my pocket this week due to the incompetence of the Medicaid Folks. Take one or the other out of the mix, I am fine..

            No, I do not know how to manage my finances… I knew that 20 years ago. But then, I am not considering a run for free housing in DC… If I had free public housing, I would have NO MORTGAGES.

          • June 12, 2014 at 1:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            I think the Clintons are doing just fine handling their finances and I would trust mine to them any day.

    • June 10, 2014 at 12:11 pm
      Connie says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      FFA – was that the same interview in which she complained they couldn’t keep up with the mortgages on their HOUSES, plural? Remember when Romney was criticized by the left for having more than one home, that he was too rich and elite to be able to relate to the common man? How does someone struggling paycheck to paycheck relate to someone complaining about not being able to keep up with the mortgage on TWO homes?? News flash to Hillary, there are easy solutions to your problem – sell one house and live in the other. Or sell both houses and downsize to a smaller house. But don’t go on TV and whine about mortgages on TWO homes when a lot of people are struggling just to keep up with a mortgage on ONE.

      • June 10, 2014 at 1:56 pm
        FFA says:
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        Yes, that is the one. Not sure if she was complaining or just making a statement of fact. She cited a large amount of legal bills. Guess Bills Interns Sued??.

        Yes, she lives a very lavish life style that few can only hope to achieve. They are what some in this forum despise and still state they would vote for her. Actually looks like she needs some plastic surgery. Was looking old…. And getting heavy too.

        • June 10, 2014 at 2:48 pm
          Connie says:
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          Perhaps I shouldn’t have used the word “complaining” but nevertheless, to someone with one much smaller house and one mortgage, who is living paycheck to paycheck, someone talking about being unable to keep up with the mortgage on TWO BIG houses is going to come across sounding like they are “complaining.” If that was Romney, he’d have been crucified for making those comments. “Rich white guy, can’t relate.” But if it’s Hillary, she gets a pass. Oh well…

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:01 pm
            FFA says:
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            I understand your point. Its all a matter of perception on an individual basis. Your last sentence is dead on accurate no matter which way you slice it. Especially when you have a vacation home in the Caribbean on Megans bay. Everyone bashes Romney for his level of success. Hillary gets the pass.

            I have a hard time understanding why she would go through the White house again especially if she walked away broke and in debt with piles of legal bills. Throw in the fact Billy was doing the interns… Seems to me that was just a bad experience all the way around.

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:30 pm
            Libby says:
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            Hillary didn’t make her money by stealing corporations, robbing their assets and putting people out of work.

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:46 pm
            FFA says:
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            Hillary makes her money giving speaches to the tune of $30,000 each. Average talk is about 90 mins along with her govt pensions.

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:02 pm
            Libby says:
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            So? What’s wrong with that? At least it’s an honest living.

          • June 10, 2014 at 4:55 pm
            FFA says:
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            I dont recall saying anything is wrong with it. Only thing I can think that would be wrong with that is that its not me making $30,000 for 90 minutes. I’m jealous… If only I could get that kind of money for rambling on and on and on….

          • June 11, 2014 at 7:21 pm
            bob says:
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            Hillary does not employ nearly as many people as Romney.

            Also, Romney, does not, steal corporations, and destroy jobs.

            In his absence, firms collapse. I believe the man at Staples was quite happy with the explosion of jobs he had.

            He basically buckles the company down so they can grow. And most of the time that requires pain first, reward later. If it didn’t work, he wouldn’t be a millionaire. He didn’t just take all the money he fired people with. That would create temporary wealth. He made the companies successful.

            You need to stop the Romney Bashing. He’s quite a good CEO who has made many jobs more than he has had to destroy in order to make a company not go belly up. Hillary has made ZERO as part of a corporation.

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:35 am
            Libby says:
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            There is a distinction between the good kind of businessman, the one who launches and grows firms, creating new products and jobs and opportunities, and the evil, Romney-style businessman, who makes millions by raiding and looting.

            Coming up with an idea, raising funds, building a factory, and beginning to sell products is one, often admirable, way to get rich. Undertaking a leveraged buyout of an existing firm, shutting down a bunch of its plants, reorganizing it, and then flipping the restructured entity to new owners is very different. One creates jobs, one kills them. One is noble, the other squalid. One builds firms, the other loots them.

            And the fact that Hillary does not employ anyone has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

            You need to get off the Hillary bashing.

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:28 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Your vile filth you just said needs to stop.

            He does not raid and loot.

            He comes in to failing companies, restructures (which usually requires lay offs and moves to make the business efficient) and then builds the company.

            You are absurd. Staples was failing. Romney gave this guy the same advice. People lost jobs. Then they grew.

            The only reason you say he raids and loots, is because you are an extreme bigot when it comes to republicans.

            The only reason I say Hillary makes no jobs, is that she doesn’t.

            Making speeches and writing books could at most make a team of maybe 50 support staff. Romney has had a net positive on jobs, with corporations making in the thousands at bare minimum, net positive, after lay offs.

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:51 pm
            Libby says:
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            You just can’t handle the truth about your pretty boy, Romney.

            http://www.massaflcio.org/romney-corporate-raider

            Go suck it.

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:56 pm
            Libby says:
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            It’s people like you that will make sure I never switch parties. You, Agent, Destro, Empo, and Dave are the worst representatives of the republican party. If you kept your mouth shut more often and let people like Crain or Ralph speak for you, there might be a change. But as long as you guys continue to spew your nasty, sarcastic rhetoric and sling insults at “libtards”, Democrats will be in office.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:11 pm
            bob says:
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            The truth?

            Go suck it?

            How about fuck you?

            Romney makes more jobs than he gets rid of. And in the circumstances he restructures companies, they were failing.

            That means no jobs, if he doesn’t restructure.

            Just grow up.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:40 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/01/workers-voice/union-backed-ad-says-romneys-investments-created-z/

            Why don’t you go suck it?

            People debate on how many net jobs Romney created, but no one argues that he raided and pillaged.

            At the end there, politifact says it was likely at least in the thousands on the positive end.

            Just like democrats had the lie of the year award for medicare in 2011, and you accused them of lying more.

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/dec/20/lie-year-democrats-claims-republicans-voted-end-me/

            Choke it down, shut up, grow up.

            Raid and pilage, give me a break you psychopth.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:56 pm
            Libby says:
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          • June 12, 2014 at 4:19 pm
            bob says:
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            So we either shut up while you tear us apart,

            Or you’ll continue to believe bull crap, and tear us apart?

            The reason you aren’t a republican is arrogance. You want to believe that Romney is screwing everyone, the business is screwing everyone, and you are better than those wealthy people.

            You don’t believe in business, capitalism, and freedom of choice in the business field.

            You don’t like that we say you are wrong, but you are perfectly fine calling us wrong, and then stating no wonder the girl was clueless as a vet tech, she was dating me.

            She knows more than you.

            Personal attacks to forego knowledge, style over substance, that’s you libby.

            I have crushed you in every argument we have had over content. You’ve won in your mind over style and how I talk, not the content.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:23 pm
            Libby says:
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          • June 12, 2014 at 4:23 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            A well known fact that politifact says is not a fact?

            When making sure a company fails you often have to cut the fat, trim jobs. It was not for the sake of fast profits. It was for turning a company profitable. And as the politifact showed, many of the companies they helped mushroomed later on. This is how those companies work, some fail some mushroom, some you have to cut jobs.

            You focus on just the cutting like a dog. You can’t pay employees when your company fails.

            You use politifact as a source yourself but are unwilling to listen to it why?

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:43 pm
            bob says:
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            I’m deluding myself?

            Have you looked at your attacks?

            If we question democrats you go insane. If we say they are wrong or corrupt you say republicans are too.

            You refuse to let democrats be wrong.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            Pot meet kettle.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:52 pm
            Libby says:
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            And disagreeing with you hardly rises to the level of going insane. You’re the one that threatens to punch teeth out, calls people trash when they disagree with you, swears at them, WRITES IN ALL CAPS, etc., etc., etc.

            It is you that actually foams at the mouth and goes insane on here. I make my point very reasonably until your nonsense starts and then it’s on like donkey kong pal. If you want a little mouse that doesn’t talk back, go home to your wife.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:55 pm
            bob says:
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            No no no Pot me kettle for you.

            I’m not letting you back out of this.

            I always start with facts and logic, you’re the one who throws out comments about my ex while telling me that I judge your life. Pot meet kettle on that too.

            You’re going to grow up, and I will not give you an out on this!

            Bring it on Libby! I will no longer back down to you, and people like you. Want to continue?

            I’ll just source quote it up. Let’s have a source quote blast!

          • June 12, 2014 at 7:15 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            I can type all caps if I please.
            If you say the girl I was dating was a moron because she was dating me, I’ll say fuck you.

            If you call me an idiot, I’ll knock you upside the head.

            I don’t foam at the mouth. I kick your ass into line.

            And that’s the way it should be. I don’t get walked on.

            With you not getting walked on is part of being a strong woman.

            With me it is apparently foaming at the mouth. Good to know.

            Your suck it is style, my reply of fuck you is just what…Raging lunacy?

            You don’t expect a fuck you when you tell someone to suck it, and insult their pretty boy silver spoon senator wannabee?

            Seriously?

            DEBATE THE DAMN FACTS.

            Not your pitiful attempts of zingers.

            I don’t debate with zingers.

            I debate AGAINST zingers. It’s why I choose you to debate with.

          • June 16, 2014 at 11:38 am
            Libby says:
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            There you go ranting and foaming at the mouth again.

            “If you call me an idiot, I’ll knock you upside the head. I don’t foam at the mouth. I kick your ass into line.” Youza! A little anger management may be in order for you.

            And yes, pot meet kettle for YOU. I’m not the one being the hypocrite here. You are.

            “Have you looked at your attacks?

            If we question democrats you go insane. If we say they are wrong or corrupt you say republicans are too.

            You refuse to let democrats be wrong.”

            Change democrat to republican and it’s all the same. So go suck it.

        • June 10, 2014 at 3:04 pm
          Agent says:
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          Well, she will be 67 when she runs and she is already very leathery. Perhaps she will call Nancy and schedule a Botox appointment with her doctor. I kind of thought she might make a sabbatical to Switzerland and have some re-construction done by now. It is very strange that not many like her, but the media loves her and some on this forum will still vote for her despite her past and lack of achievements. After all, what possible difference does it make at this point, right?

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:07 pm
            FFA says:
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            No way can she be worse….

          • June 10, 2014 at 5:01 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, I don’t buy the being broke lie for a moment. Didn’t she get a big book advance for – It takes a village to raise a child? Boy, that was something the Progressives loved. No parental responsibility, just turn your kid over to day care and the school and they will be fine. How is that working out for society right now?

          • June 11, 2014 at 9:47 am
            Agent says:
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            FFA, you may have been a little light on the amount Hillary rakes in for a speech. I saw a report that it is really $200,000 for the typical speech.

            By the way, the reports of the demise of the Tea Party is greatly exaggerated. The TEA Party guy in Virginia handed RINO Eric Cantor his head last night. Before the left says that it is just another rich white guy, Brat is an “Economics” professor at a college and had about 10% of the funds Cantor had to campaign. His message resonated with the voters who are tired of RINO’s doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. Cantor was only the “majority” leader in the House. This is sending shock waves through the establishment Republicans and it is time for new blood.

          • June 11, 2014 at 12:51 pm
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          • June 11, 2014 at 1:31 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent,
            I for one applaud Eric Cantor being handed his head. Serves him right! Couldn’t stand that guy. Sounds like he’s going to be a big baby and resign from Majority Leader, take his ball, and go home.

          • June 11, 2014 at 2:55 pm
            FFA says:
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            I think it is all part of the “Vote Them Out Movement”.
            She was In Chicago again yesterday whining about being broke. Imagine that a 1%% cant manage her household finances… What on earth would happen to the country if she is in charge?

          • June 11, 2014 at 4:22 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Well, FFA, Congress holds the purse strings, not The President.

          • June 11, 2014 at 4:44 pm
            FFA says:
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            Cap, as president, I think she would have influence over budget matters.
            That irresponsible with money gives me cause for concern.

            I will admit, she would be better then what we have. At least she is not from IL…

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:38 am
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          • June 12, 2014 at 2:01 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, in my case, the legal bills are just starting. This is because Medicaid mishandled my parent application. The attorney picked it apart. The med bills are going to get worse as my wife started coughing blood yesterday. Chest x ray showing nothing wrong with lungs….
            Revenue is up again in the agency. Harder I work, more and more go to other people.
            As far as my debt goes, only Mortgage (primary & equity line for WI property). No Credit Card, no car payments. If I could get half what I paid for the WI Property, I would take it… Of course, WI property is plan B should something happen here. With the spike in biz 2 years running, moving out of IL is no longer an option.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:12 pm
            bob says:
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            He’s ugly and his face is leathery is a good argument in politics isn’t it libby?

            Trash.

          • June 12, 2014 at 2:58 pm
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          • June 12, 2014 at 2:59 pm
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          • June 12, 2014 at 3:25 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, the only time Hillary does not lie is when she keeps her mouth shut. By the way, how do you like all that good will she built up all around the world and how other countries love us since she was globe trotting around the world? The Middle East is one huge mess and Iraq is in danger of falling to the extremists and I suppose Obama & Kerry read in the paper they might have a problem over there to deal with.

          • June 12, 2014 at 3:32 pm
            Libby says:
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          • June 12, 2014 at 3:42 pm
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          • June 12, 2014 at 4:02 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Bob, hard to find a reply button between your posts and Libby’s rants. I often wonder what the economy would look like under 6 years of Romney vs what we have had. There is no doubt in my mind that Romney was pro business, would have lowered the marginal rate for business to create some real jobs, reined in the EPA which has killed so many jobs. Instead of a contracting economy that we have now, we would probably be cruising along at 3-5% growth with the incentives he proposed. The left can rant all they want, but Romney was at least a leader and would have done the right thing for the country.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:24 pm
            Libby says:
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          • June 12, 2014 at 4:25 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent saying it doesn’t make that a method of saying Eric Cantor is a bad representative.

            Have you even looked into Cantor?

            He’s actually a good rep. You keep saying we need better reps. And people on our side are actually listening to you for some reason.

            It is a known fact that republicans are more likely to split from their chosen rep. Maybe we are more willing to switch reps and call out crap, so much so that even if you don’t like him we won’t like him.

            I will say there are a lot of idiot conservatives right now.

            Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan are some of the best.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:29 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            The republicans, did NOT create the economic mess.

            Did you miss my post where Clinton said they contributed by not allowing republicans to regulate fannie mae and freddie mac?

            Do you remember when I posted the CRA ratings of the firms that failed? And how CRA ratings work? And who triggered the ratings for the first time?

            Clinton and Obama finally started suits with CRA regs, triggering them in the late 90′s early 2000′s. This started companies actually fighting for good ratings.

            WAMU grew by over 20 locations, something they could only do by having a high debt to net capital ratio. Laws allow you to have a higher debt to net capital ratio if you have a higher CRA rating.

            I showed you like 15 companies, on their CRA rating in 2007 and why. And nearly every single one, was given a high rating for giving loans to low income borrowers with little to no proof of income documentation. Also, the median loan was higher than the median income could afford, and this was quoted as a positive.

            The republicans did NOT cause this crises.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:30 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Or I should say, him saying that shouldn’t make you spew it back out and apply it to Eric Cantor.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:35 pm
            Libby says:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:38 pm
            Libby says:
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          • June 12, 2014 at 4:52 pm
            bob says:
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            Super majority is 60. We did not have a super majority.

            I don’t know, how did we supposedly stop Obama from passing jobs bills, and how did we cause the government shut down as the minority Libby?

            Us having majority doesn’t mean we caused the crises.

            We are going to argue tangible facts, as to what caused the crises.

            Are you going to deny that republicans tried to pass housing regs against fannie and freddie? Does that mean Clinton lied?

            Are you going to deny those CRA regs gave better scores for the reasons I mentioned?

            What do you think would happen if George W said “we need to stop giving loans to poor people”. Would it have worked as a campaign due to how your side markets us as against the poor?

            When Palin said that poor people getting loans was the problem, people said she blamed the poor. She wasn’t even accusing them and it nearly blew up in her face. Do you think she could have revised those laws without the democrats saying republicans were after poor people’s abilities to get homes?

            Are you insane?

            http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html

            What do you think of that?

            The same author later on says Bush tried to get rid of all regulations.

            You can just shut up now, or take the argument as to how this collapse happened. If you say deregulation, what deregulation? The CRA regs were a problem. When you have to give loans to the poor to be allowed to have expansion ability and high debt to capital ratios, that is a problem Libby.

          • June 12, 2014 at 4:58 pm
            Libby says:
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          • June 12, 2014 at 5:20 pm
            bob says:
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            They did know what they were doing.

            And republicans at no point were tied into that.

            At the same time: Were it not for requiring firms to give bad loans to get a higher CRA rating, the corporate greedy people wouldn’t have done it.

            They were greedy mostly on the part that they knew a few things:

            To grow they had to do it.
            That makes it the government’s fault
            The government would make up for their bad debt to net capital ratio.

            I don’t view that as too corrupt actually.

            They thought if they grew enough and then got enough good loans and passed off the bad ones as they did someone else would get hit.

            It’s called survival.

            Who forced them to have the bad loans that they needed to get rid of?

            Who made the moral hazard? Dergulation? My ass.

            It was debt to net capital ratios and cra regs, as well as fannie mae and freddie mac. Each of those democrat impeded, sponsored, and controlled on the wrong side.

            Al Franken wouldn’t even admit he was wrong about there being no issues of financial soundness. Bill O’reilly tore him up.

          • June 12, 2014 at 5:56 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, I do have Health Insurance. But every which way I turn, there is a co pay for this that the next thing. Seems everything is at least $50.00 and upwards of $200.
            Seems no one can tell me when the co pays will stop because no one knows. My Prior Insurance was more costly per month. But at least I knew $5000 was the most I would pay out. I am feeling screwed all over again.

          • June 12, 2014 at 7:05 pm
            bob says:
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            As a side comment:

            It wouldn’t matter how many of them are democrats (though I guarantee you the majority are democrats and not republicans.)

            It would matter which representatives caused it and which laws caused it.

            Credit card debt as a side comment is wholly the fault of the consumer over spending. I’m sorry. You can’t say any regulation would stop consumers from putting too much on a credit card. Credit cards were not the cause of this crises.

          • June 13, 2014 at 11:55 am
            FFA says:
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            Well folks, the fact she is from IL should stop everyone from voting for her. Another 8 years of this mess???

            Dont vote with your heart or just cause she is a she. Use your head. Keep all Il politicians out of any position of power.

        • June 10, 2014 at 3:33 pm
          Libby says:
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          • June 10, 2014 at 3:53 pm
            FFA says:
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            I can not judge another mans appearance. We all look the same to me. Besides, we can always grow a beard to hide our flaws.

            Her experience – See Bengazi. Her know how??? What does she know how to do? Not get out of the way of a bus obama was driving.

            BTY, we have been concentrating on all her flaws since she lied to the American People. She probably only looks that bad because Obama threw her under the bus and it ran her over. All her intelligence you say she has could not get her off that hook.

          • June 10, 2014 at 3:59 pm
            txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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          • June 10, 2014 at 4:21 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, I wonder now that she appears to be running if Kentucky Fried Chicken will offer their Hillary special bucket again. Two small breasts, two fat thighs and all the biscuits you can eat. By the way, Nancy Botox Pelosi looks like a scarecrow now. Those treatments just don’t seem to be working anymore. Both are ugly women with an ugly disposition. Have you ever heard Hillary laugh? It sounds like a horse whinney and is very abrasive.

          • June 10, 2014 at 5:16 pm
            FFA says:
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            Agent, I have a family member working at KFC. Writing on the wall for a major financial crises there. Seems to be going down, headed for BK.

          • June 11, 2014 at 2:49 pm
            Agent says:
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            Good for you Planet on Cantor. He lost touch with his constituents and didn’t take Brat seriously since polling showed him up by 20 points. When a Congressman or Senator is focused on DC rather than the folks back home, eventually he will lose. The next one up is Thad Cochran in Mississippi in a runoff. He has been up there forever contributing to the C02 problem. By the way, is that lady in Iowa who grew up castrating pigs on the farm and promising to cut pork in DC doing well? I think she would be a good replacement and represent Iowa well.

          • June 11, 2014 at 4:59 pm
            Agent says:
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            Actually FFA, I believe Hillary’s family was from Chicago. She had the good sense to move away and go to school on the East Coast and never returned to get into the very corrupt Chicago political scene.

          • June 11, 2014 at 5:27 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Planet, since you admit Congress holds the purse strings, are you opposed to defunding the EPA for all the damage they are causing to the economy? Are they after your Ethanol plants out there in Iowa for emissions? I didn’t think so!

          • June 12, 2014 at 9:07 am
            Captain Planet says:
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          • June 12, 2014 at 4:40 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, compared to Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee, Nancy Pelosi and many others on the left, Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan look like saints. However, Cantor’s mistake was to forget his constituents and focus on DC and got a bit arrogant and in love with the big PACs and lobbyists. He also became a RINO and was willing to reach across that aisle and go over to the other side. That is what is wrong with DC, power politics and forgetting the people. It kinds of reminds me of the series – House of Cards with Kevin Spacey. I think that show is pretty close to what reality is in Washington, DC.

          • June 12, 2014 at 7:07 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            Did you see Cantor’s webpage and fights from April 2014?

            He wasn’t a rhino. This is what I mean by people like Libby are turning us republicans against our own candidates because we are likely to turn against them.

            He went full on assault at the proposed new 1.8 trillion of spending and or taxes.

            Though good for you for breaking party line. It’s exactly the type of thing Libby needs to do.

          • June 13, 2014 at 1:05 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, remember when Hillary was running against the Chosen One in 08 and they were debating? She admitted to being a “Modern Progressive” whatever that means. Being a Progressive at all should give voters pause since Progressives have been screwing this country over for the past quarter century. I include RINO’s who have Progressive tendencies as well.

          • June 13, 2014 at 5:56 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey FFA, How about another news zinger to end the week? In today’s Washington Times and I am sure will be on other real news outlets, it seems that the IRS cannot locate all those incriminating emails Lois Lerner was sending and receiving after they pledged to cooperate for the past year? Of course, she is currently in Contempt of Congress for taking the 5th. I don’t know why they don’t just throw her in jail and put her in with some rough Lezzies and perhaps she might talk after a few days. This administration is the nastiest in the history of the country and they will do anything to protect themselves from the truth coming out about their nefarious criminal operation. My guess is the hard drive may be at the bottom of the Potomac or was incinerated in the IRS boiler room.

          • June 16, 2014 at 10:38 am
            FFA says:
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            Driving home from the Lake yesterday, I came on a farm that was having a moving sale. On a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood was painted Thanks UPOS Obama. even rural Wisconsin dont seem to like him.

        • June 10, 2014 at 4:25 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, I don’t think it was the interns suing, just the sexual harassment women like Christine Willey, Paula Jones, etc.,etc., etc. I don’t think Ms Lewinsky ever sued. She just had the blue dress and that kept her alive. She does stand to make some money with her book though.

          • June 10, 2014 at 5:17 pm
            FFA says:
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            Is that who Mitch Rider was singing about – Devil with the Blue Dress on?????

          • June 10, 2014 at 5:43 pm
            Agent says:
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            Well FFA, KFC’s may have some closings here and there. They seem to be doing fine here and many have Taco Bell’s in them as well. I think it depends on the area they are in. Do they have $15 per hour minimum wage up there yet? That is going to cause trouble with a lot of restaurants in certain states. Seattle has already passed it and are starting to see the bad effects of it. I guess they want to shut some businesses down.

          • June 12, 2014 at 11:23 am
            Agent says:
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            Planet, we can have a discussion if you admit that we have a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. Most Democrats seem to think we have a Democracy which is the messiest and most unwieldly form of government. That is why our founding fathers set up three separate branches of government to serve as checks and balances for one that might get out of control like the current Executive Branch. We have a President who likes to govern now by the phone and pen, change laws, chose which ones he wants to enforce and ignore others. The legislative branch and Judicial Branch have not done a good job of checking his powers and that is why he thinks he can continue to do his thing. The EPA is the nastiest of all agencies and all the leadership should be gone, just like the VA. They should be reeled in and only do what they were set up to do.

          • June 12, 2014 at 11:32 am
            Libby says:
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          • June 12, 2014 at 3:19 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Planet, are you talking about that 500,000 acres of land in New Mexico right on the border of Mexico that the President declared a refuge? It seems to be a refuge for illegals and the Cartel. I think we have plenty of National Monuments, refuges already. How about using some common sense and turning the Oil & Gas Industry loose and develop our own resources. With what is going on in the Middle East right now, we will need our own resources sooner than you think.

          • June 13, 2014 at 11:32 am
            Agent says:
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            Bob, I need an opinion. Since Libby and others think Hillary is the smartest woman in the world and she was just wonderful as Secretary of State, do you think Obama should ask her to go with Kerry over to Masol & Tikrit to negotiate a peace with the insurgents about to overrun Iraq? I am sure these guys will welcome their presence over there, right?

  • June 10, 2014 at 3:54 pm
    FFA says:
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    Libby, on an unrelated note, caught a Tribute Band called Kasmier last week. If your a Led Zep fan, its a must see.

    • June 10, 2014 at 4:03 pm
      Libby says:
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      Of course I’m a Zepplin fan! I met Robert Plant once…

      • June 11, 2014 at 4:52 pm
        FFA says:
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        I do remember you saying that when we went through the Brush With Fame chat. Thats why I directed that at you. We seem to have the same taste in music. I had J Geils blasting (Must have got lost) this AM. My new gal – 30 yrs old – asked me “Who is That?” I was stunned… none the less, Foreigner coming in soon. Next on my list of aging rockers I am going to see. Sad to say I am going to miss George as I will be out of town when he comes through. Waiting on the BoDeans to come through again. Maybe Summerfest in MIL…

        • June 12, 2014 at 9:09 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Why can’t we get just ONE MORE TOUR with Pink Floyd? Can’t Gilmour and Waters suck it up for one final run? Do you know how much money they’d make? As it goes, I guess I’d rather see Roger live than David. Roger’s last tour was a spectacle!

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:43 am
            FFA says:
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            Cap – YEP…. There is a Floyd Tribute band around Chicago & Burbs that would be a must see for Floyd Fans… Cant think of the name right now, but will get it for you. They get out to Dekalb so not that far of a drive for you. Hang out with a bunch of college kids.. Remember the days when life was much simpler.

            BTW, I dont think they need any more money. I would bet that they are in the 1% group of the 1%% ers.

          • June 12, 2014 at 10:52 am
            Libby says:
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            Where would we get the acid?

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:26 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby- in the parking lot….

          • June 12, 2014 at 12:51 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh! The same place I used to get it!

    • June 13, 2014 at 5:27 pm
      Always Amazed says:
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      Hi FAA,

      Kasmier is fantastic! They are playing Burger Fest in Roscoe Village on the 12th of July and I will be there!

      • June 16, 2014 at 9:58 am
        FFA says:
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        This was my first time seeing them. Well worth the ticket price…

        • June 17, 2014 at 3:08 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, I hate to break into the reverie of the entertainment world, but had something to share on Hillary’s book deal. Simon & Shuster paid her a $14 million advance. The media made a big splash for her promoting the book. So far, she has sold 60,000 out of a printing of 1 million books and the publisher has said it was disappointing. I think they may take a bath on that investment and stores will have to reduce it to paperback cost and it still probably will not sell. The article I read said they will be lucky to sell 150,000 copies including Libby. Libby, if you haven’t bought it yet, give it a month and you can get a reduced price.

          • June 17, 2014 at 3:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            Maybe you can get me a copy for my birthday.

  • June 12, 2014 at 11:22 am
    Libby says:
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    This has nothing to do with healthcare, but I laughed until I cried watching it. It’s hilarious!!!

    http://www.today.com/news/all-himself-las-vegas-airport-man-makes-hilarious-music-video-2D79790252



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