I love how liberals will bring up Iran-Contra but dismiss “Operation: Fast & Furious” as a “phony scandal.”
I also don’t understand why liberals seem to be so in the tank for Iran becoming a nuclear power. It’s abundantly clear that they don’t need the energy as they’re basically sitting on an ocean of oil. Will it have to take Israel (if not us) being nuked for people to wake up from their liberal fever dreams?
The same can be said about Conservatives bringing up scandals involving Democrats while idsmissing Republican scandals. They are all criminals. To think otherwise is to be completely naive.
This is the core of our current divide in this country, not President Obama. Nobody is willing to hold their party accountable. This is why I refuse to identify with either party anymore.
March 18, 2015 at 12:18 pm
Destro says:
Like or Dislike:
4
0
I agree that some Conservatives do it to. I was just pointing it out because Celtica was defending/deflecting the current scandal Hillary Clinton is having while previously bringing up Iran-Contra. I was very critical of Bush when he was in office, but then I see how everyone who was critical of Bush is more or less giving the Obama administration a free pass on everything he’s done that Bush did; if not outright supporting the things they were critical about.
I still don’t understand why Liberals want a nuclear Iran…
March 18, 2015 at 12:21 pm
Ron says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Destro,
I cannot speak for them, but I highly doubt any American, including Liberals, want a nuclear Iran.
March 18, 2015 at 12:36 pm
Destro says:
Like or Dislike:
5
0
President Obama does…
March 18, 2015 at 12:37 pm
Destro says:
Like or Dislike:
2
0
Although I suppose you said “any AMERICAN.” hahaha ;)
March 18, 2015 at 5:45 pm
Insurance Guy says:
Like or Dislike:
3
0
Obama is “The Great Divider.”
This is the most divided this country has been since the Civil War. He has pitted races against eachother as well as “the haves and the have nots.” All planned.
March 19, 2015 at 10:38 am
Destro says:
Like or Dislike:
4
0
That’s because class warfare is the go to tactic for any Statist. Create civil discord and that way you can get away with whatever you want.
March 19, 2015 at 10:52 am
Ron says:
Like or Dislike:
0
6
Do the Republicans bear any responsiblitiy for the divide? All they have done since he was elected is demonize and mislabel him, and seek to undermine nearly everything and anything he proposes. Then they turn around a blame him for all of th ills of the country and the world.
I do not think he has been a great uniter, but neither was President GW Bush.
Regarding class warfare, that has been going on for decades. What have Republicans done to stop that war? All they do is label those who are not financially successful as lazy, entitled moochers. Try repecting those who bust their asses 40-60 hours a week on $10-15 per hour or less. You do not know their story and what their opportunites may have been in their lives. It is so easy to judge from your castles.
March 19, 2015 at 1:34 pm
Destro says:
Like or Dislike:
5
0
“Try repecting those who bust their asses 40-60 hours a week on $10-15 per hour or less. You do not know their story and what their opportunites may have been in their lives.”
I know their stories because I am living that story right now. And if by castle you mean a tiny 1 bedroom apartment, I guess a slumdog in Mumbai would consider it a castle. But first, how about you try to quash your own ignorance and assumptions of others.
March 19, 2015 at 1:54 pm
Ron says:
Like or Dislike:
0
5
Destro,
It sounds like my message should not be geared toward you. For that, I apologize.
However, I stand by my comment of how you and others in your situation are perceived by many on the right, especially those who are financially successful.
You did not answer my question, “What have Republicans done to stop class warfare?
March 19, 2015 at 6:35 pm
Destro says:
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
13
0
It’s hilarious that you say Republicans have demonized the president when they really haven’t; at least compared to how the Democrats demonized and belittled GWB at every turn possible. Even John Kerry on Bill Maher making a subtle joke about shooting GWB. Yes the Right has tried to undermine or halt many of his horrendous policies. Kind of like how Republicans basically called everything regarding how Obamacare was going to be a colossal flop. Kind of like how they called Russia becoming more aggressive on the global stage in 2012 and were laughed at thoroughly by Obama and his cronies. But to get to the point regarding what have Republicans done to stop class warfare…
Well, for one they haven’t been propping up blatant cases of self-defense as racial hate crimes. They haven’t been instituting race-based policies like Obama’s “Brother’s Keeper” program. They haven’t perverted nearly all of their policies by injecting race into them.
Reagan dropped the tax rate on all Americans by 25%. Free market Capitalism has been by far the strongest if not only system that grants the possibility for upward social mobility.
March 20, 2015 at 8:45 am
Ron says:
Like or Dislike:
0
9
Destro,
If you honestly believe that President Obama has not been demonized and treated with far less respect than nearly any previous president, then there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.
You response to how Republicans have stopped class warfare was to bring up race and say what they did not do? How about some kind of positive action actual related to class, not race? If you do not know or if they have not done anything, just say so. Please do not try to bring up something useless and irrelevant just to answer.
Regarding President Reagan, presidents do not change tax rates or tax policy, that is the job of the Congress, period. Side note, he also signed at least 11 bills that included tax increases.
Also, during his term, spending, deficits, debt, size of the government all increased. If you are going to give him credit for decreasing taxes, he is also responsible for the other side of the ledger.
I have asked Agent several times without a response, maybe you can answer: How come it was OK for Keynesian principles to applied during President Raegan’s term to fix the poor economy he inheritied, but not during President Obama’s term? How come deficits did not matter, according to Vice President Cheney, during President GW Bush’s term, but now they do?
March 20, 2015 at 10:55 am
Destro says:
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
10
0
Obama Elected with 71% of the vote, 90% of the media is in the bag inside of another bag head over heels tingle up Chris Matthews leg for him, anybody protesting his abhorrent policies are in turn demonized by the overwhelming Liberal media chastised for things they applauded Bush protesters for. Obama could literally use the constitution as toilet paper and the Left would give him a pass and excuse it. Forgive me if I think your claim of being “demonized and treated with far less respect than nearly any previous president,” is laughable at best. Were you in a coma during the George W. Bush administration?
A better question regarding class warfare would be, what has Obama done that hasn’t contributed to class warfare? Republicans have historically created better and less restrictive business environments. Hiking up taxes on businesses and making them move out of state is a Liberal Democrat tactic. Look at Michigan and the Hellhole that is known as Detroit. 40+ years of a monolithic Democrat government has turned that city into a cesspool.
March 20, 2015 at 11:43 am
Ron says:
Like or Dislike:
0
4
Destro,
I am niot saying other presidents were treated with the prioper respect either, but how President Obama has been treated dwarfs them. The only thing people did not like about President GW Bush was the war in Iraq. Which, in hindsight, was a miserable failure that needlessly cost us valuable American military lives and billions of taxpayer dollars, lead to a continuinfg civil war, further instability in the Middle East, and the establichment of ISIS. If we knew he had WMD, why not just bomb that/those location?
For me personally, the worst part was how the war was sold to us. VP Cheney knew what the result of invading the war would be, but did not express that. Here is his exact quote from 1992:
“[I]f we’d gone to Baghdad [in the first Gulf War] we would have been all alone. There wouldn’t have been anybody else with us. There would have been a U.S. occupation of Iraq. None of the Arab forces that were willing to fight with us in Kuwait were willing to invade Iraq.
Once you got to Iraq and took it over, took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq, you could very easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off: part of it, the Syrians would like to have to the west, part of it — eastern Iraq — the Iranians would like to claim, they fought over it for eight years. In the north you’ve got the Kurds, and if the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey.
It’s a quagmire if you go that far and try to take over Iraq.
The other thing was casualties. Everyone was impressed with the fact we were able to do our job with as few casualties as we had. But for the 146 Americans killed in action, and for their families — it wasn’t a cheap war. And the question for the president, in terms of whether or not we went on to Baghdad, took additional casualties in an effort to get Saddam Hussein, was how many additional dead Americans is Saddam worth?
Our judgment was, not very many, and I think we got it right.”
Sound familiar as to what really happened compared to what he said in 2003?
“We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators,”
Russert asked: “And you are convinced the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites will come together in a democracy?” Cheney replied quickly: “They have so far.”
“If you look at the opposition, they’ve come together, I think, very effectively, with representatives from Shia, Sunni and Kurdish elements in the population. They understand the importance of preserving and building on an Iraqi national identity. They don’t like to have the U.S., for example, come in and insist on dealing with people sort of on a hyphenated basis — the Iraqi-Shia, Iraqi-Sunni — but rather to focus on Iraq as a nation and all that it can accomplish as a nation, and we try to be sensitive to those concerns. I think the prospects of being able to achieve this kind of success, if you will, from a political standpoint, are probably better than they would be for virtually any other country and under similar circumstances in that part of the world.”
Ah yes, regime change would work out just fine — better than fine. “Extremists in the region would have to rethink their strategy of jihad,” Cheney had told the Veterans of Foreign Wars seven months earlier. “Moderates throughout the region would take heart.” Plus a bonus: “Our ability to advance the Israeli-Palestinian peace process would be enhanced.”
This, combined with lowering taxes during wartime to create an unmanageable debt, is why I did not vote for President GW Bush again in 2004.
…except America’s involvement in Vietnam really began in the JFK and peaked in the LBJ administrations. Not that I’m defending Agent, just pointing out that both parties have had their scandals and should both be reviled.
You can actually take it back as far as Truman. That wasn’t my point.
I just thought that Agent’s comment on Haldeman not getting anyone killed in a foreign land showed a complete ignorance of history and I simply pointed out the obvious.
Yes, a Democrat Kennedy got us involved in that one, LBJ, a Democrat escalated it getting over 50,000 of our boys killed in it and a Republican, Nixon got us out of it.
Hey Rosenblatt, I hardly think Eisenhower sent 400,000 troops to Vietnam to get them killed. LBJ was really the one to blame for the huge escalation, inventing the Gulf of Tonkin incident to justify more escalation, and not having a plan to win. Back then, the strategy was to take a hill, then abandon it to the Viet Cong, take it again, abandon it again. Democrats are unique in their ignorance of how to fight a fight. The current one is the best example of recent years.
March 19, 2015 at 12:21 pm
Rosenblatt says:
Like or Dislike:
0
4
Agent – you posted that it was Kennedy who got us involved in Vietnam. My reply had nothing to do with who escalated it or who sent more troops to fight. It was solely about who got us involved in Vietnam, which occurred before Kennedy took office.
March 19, 2015 at 1:01 pm
Ron says:
Like or Dislike:
0
3
Agent,
Do you honestly believe the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are/were well fought?
Well Ron, we did kick the Taliban out in Afghanistan and Saddam out of Iraq, so yes the military did their job. Did you know that your President said that Afghanistan was the right war for the right reasons? Did you know he voted against the surge in Iraq which reclaimed Iraq. Of course, since then he has telegraphed every move and told the enemy the dates of his withdrawal and all they have to do is wait. He abandoned Iraq entirely inviting ISIS to come in and then arrogantly called them the JV team. How has that worked out? Jordan woke up when their pilot was burned alive and is taking on the fight. We should support their efforts, give them all they need to fight since Obama will not fight.
March 20, 2015 at 8:58 am
Ron says:
Like or Dislike:
0
1
Agent,
The Taliban hid for a while and are still in Afghanistan and Iraq is in worse shape now and has created a safe haven for ISIS to flourish. Good job.
Yes, the war in Afghanistanm was the right thing to do, but it is also the longest military conflict in U.S. history. Does not sound like it was necessarily executed that well.
I know President Obama’s voting record and I disagreed with him on that vote. As much as I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning, I believe the surge was the right thing to do at the time.
Why does it matter if the enemy knows when we are going to leave? Should we remain there forever and waste tax dollars and U.S. lives to help people who do not really want the help? It takes months to withdraw that many troops, so as soon as you begin, the enemy knows your leaving.
President Obama has ordered multiple attacks against ISIS even before Jordan. And you say I do not watch the news.
Bottom line, if we did not invade Iraq, we would not have to deal with ISIS, saved billions of dollars and valuable American lives, and may have taken out Osama bin Laden much sooner. But that must be President Obama’s fault.
March 20, 2015 at 11:35 am
Destro says:
Like or Dislike:
5
0
“Bottom line, if we did not invade Iraq, we would not have to deal with ISIS, saved billions of dollars and valuable American lives, and may have taken out Osama bin Laden much sooner. But that must be President Obama’s fault.”
-You don’t know that we wouldn’t have to deal with ISIS.
-We would have saved billions of dollars and thousands of American lives but the consequences of doing nothing could have been far greater in both respects.
-Osama Bin Laden could have also never been taken out at all.
Hey there Captain Hindsight, it’s cool that you think that you’re some kind of alternate reality seer.
March 23, 2015 at 8:37 am
Ron says:
Like or Dislike:
0
4
Destro,
You are correct when you said, “You don’t know that we wouldn’t have to deal with ISIS”. However, you don’t know, “the consequences of doing nothing could have been far greater in both respects.”
To be fair, I did say that we may have taken out Osama bin Laden much sooner.
Neither of us can know with any certainty how things would have played out if we did not go into Irag. However, VP Cheney knew what was going to happen and he and the Bush Administration lied to us.
March 23, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Agent says:
Like or Dislike:
6
0
By the way Ron, the Soviet Union had their issues with Afghanistan and tried to make them a province with a puppet government. After a lot of blood and treasure was expended by them, they decided it wasn’t worth it and pulled out. Why did Obama think it was the right war for the right reasons? That country is barbaric and lives in medieval times.
He was a Progressive Liberal Democrat from Texas who was the pits. He won his first race to the House by using dead people to vote. That strategy has been used by Democrats for years along with multiple voting from precinct to precinct. Even at that, he barely won. A man like him couldn’t get elected dog catcher the past 30 years in Texas.
March 19, 2015 at 5:57 pm
Agent says:
Like or Dislike:
6
0
Hey Destro, I saw a good political cartoon today. Dick Cheney in a picture said that Obama was the worst President ever in his lifetime. In the picture next to it was a picture of Castro, an ISIS leader in a hood, an Iranian Mullah, Assad of Syria and Putin from Russia. Caption said – We disagree!
Rosemarie Woods deleted a 16 minutes or so of tape. Hillary delted 30,000 emails, but trust her that none had anything to do with her job, that would need to be preserved under any normal record retention requirement.
And of course we all set up email servers in our homes, for convenience sake.
Now ask who needs to go to jail for obstruction of justice and destruction fo evidence?
Isn’t it strange that the State Department can’t seem to locate the Separation agreement that she either did or didn’t sign? 14 days and still counting on that answer. That bimbo redhead spokesperson Psaki said she was still working on it. If Hillary didn’t sign it, didn’t turn over the records for two years, I believe she is in for some big trouble. If she did sign it, then didn’t turn over the records, she is still in big trouble. How many emails on Benghazi are deleted? She doesn’t get to pick and choose even if she is Hillary Clinton.
David, if you are a former President of the United States, you would get your own email server at home after you leave office. Now, all you have to do is run and be elected to office.
The reason the GOP went after Bill Clinton was payback for Watergate. The last time Hilary turned over records, the GOP made sure to drag her name though the mud. That was in the 90’s.
Think Hilary is going to give the GOP free reign on her personal emails 15 years later? Dream on.
So, let’s recap — the GOP has Benghazi and a private email server maintained by a former president. Good luck in getting that to stick for the 2016 election. You would have better luck in backing a viable candidate that appeals to more than older white tea party guys.
Even after all these years I can’t forgive or forget Tricky Dick and his minions. Hank, if my dad were a cheating crook, I’d probably try to rationalize it too.
I was Hank’s roommate 1971-72 at UCLA, before Watergate broke. It was our freshmen year. He was a good roommate. I made him laugh a lot. We had some great times.
At least Haldeman didn’t get anyone killed in a foreign land like some we know.
Agent, nope Halderman didn’t get anyone killed in a foreign land like Bush did.
…nor did he sell weapons to Iran.
No, he did not sell weapons to Iran. Unlike Reagan (I’m looking at your Irancontragate).
And he also did not send love letters to Iran. Unlike the 47 GOP Senators. (Stupidgated)
I love how liberals will bring up Iran-Contra but dismiss “Operation: Fast & Furious” as a “phony scandal.”
I also don’t understand why liberals seem to be so in the tank for Iran becoming a nuclear power. It’s abundantly clear that they don’t need the energy as they’re basically sitting on an ocean of oil. Will it have to take Israel (if not us) being nuked for people to wake up from their liberal fever dreams?
Destro,
The same can be said about Conservatives bringing up scandals involving Democrats while idsmissing Republican scandals. They are all criminals. To think otherwise is to be completely naive.
This is the core of our current divide in this country, not President Obama. Nobody is willing to hold their party accountable. This is why I refuse to identify with either party anymore.
I agree that some Conservatives do it to. I was just pointing it out because Celtica was defending/deflecting the current scandal Hillary Clinton is having while previously bringing up Iran-Contra. I was very critical of Bush when he was in office, but then I see how everyone who was critical of Bush is more or less giving the Obama administration a free pass on everything he’s done that Bush did; if not outright supporting the things they were critical about.
I still don’t understand why Liberals want a nuclear Iran…
Destro,
I cannot speak for them, but I highly doubt any American, including Liberals, want a nuclear Iran.
President Obama does…
Although I suppose you said “any AMERICAN.” hahaha ;)
Obama is “The Great Divider.”
This is the most divided this country has been since the Civil War. He has pitted races against eachother as well as “the haves and the have nots.” All planned.
That’s because class warfare is the go to tactic for any Statist. Create civil discord and that way you can get away with whatever you want.
Do the Republicans bear any responsiblitiy for the divide? All they have done since he was elected is demonize and mislabel him, and seek to undermine nearly everything and anything he proposes. Then they turn around a blame him for all of th ills of the country and the world.
I do not think he has been a great uniter, but neither was President GW Bush.
Regarding class warfare, that has been going on for decades. What have Republicans done to stop that war? All they do is label those who are not financially successful as lazy, entitled moochers. Try repecting those who bust their asses 40-60 hours a week on $10-15 per hour or less. You do not know their story and what their opportunites may have been in their lives. It is so easy to judge from your castles.
“Try repecting those who bust their asses 40-60 hours a week on $10-15 per hour or less. You do not know their story and what their opportunites may have been in their lives.”
I know their stories because I am living that story right now. And if by castle you mean a tiny 1 bedroom apartment, I guess a slumdog in Mumbai would consider it a castle. But first, how about you try to quash your own ignorance and assumptions of others.
Destro,
It sounds like my message should not be geared toward you. For that, I apologize.
However, I stand by my comment of how you and others in your situation are perceived by many on the right, especially those who are financially successful.
You did not answer my question, “What have Republicans done to stop class warfare?
It’s hilarious that you say Republicans have demonized the president when they really haven’t; at least compared to how the Democrats demonized and belittled GWB at every turn possible. Even John Kerry on Bill Maher making a subtle joke about shooting GWB. Yes the Right has tried to undermine or halt many of his horrendous policies. Kind of like how Republicans basically called everything regarding how Obamacare was going to be a colossal flop. Kind of like how they called Russia becoming more aggressive on the global stage in 2012 and were laughed at thoroughly by Obama and his cronies. But to get to the point regarding what have Republicans done to stop class warfare…
Well, for one they haven’t been propping up blatant cases of self-defense as racial hate crimes. They haven’t been instituting race-based policies like Obama’s “Brother’s Keeper” program. They haven’t perverted nearly all of their policies by injecting race into them.
Reagan dropped the tax rate on all Americans by 25%. Free market Capitalism has been by far the strongest if not only system that grants the possibility for upward social mobility.
Destro,
If you honestly believe that President Obama has not been demonized and treated with far less respect than nearly any previous president, then there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.
You response to how Republicans have stopped class warfare was to bring up race and say what they did not do? How about some kind of positive action actual related to class, not race? If you do not know or if they have not done anything, just say so. Please do not try to bring up something useless and irrelevant just to answer.
Regarding President Reagan, presidents do not change tax rates or tax policy, that is the job of the Congress, period. Side note, he also signed at least 11 bills that included tax increases.
Also, during his term, spending, deficits, debt, size of the government all increased. If you are going to give him credit for decreasing taxes, he is also responsible for the other side of the ledger.
I have asked Agent several times without a response, maybe you can answer: How come it was OK for Keynesian principles to applied during President Raegan’s term to fix the poor economy he inheritied, but not during President Obama’s term? How come deficits did not matter, according to Vice President Cheney, during President GW Bush’s term, but now they do?
Obama Elected with 71% of the vote, 90% of the media is in the bag inside of another bag head over heels tingle up Chris Matthews leg for him, anybody protesting his abhorrent policies are in turn demonized by the overwhelming Liberal media chastised for things they applauded Bush protesters for. Obama could literally use the constitution as toilet paper and the Left would give him a pass and excuse it. Forgive me if I think your claim of being “demonized and treated with far less respect than nearly any previous president,” is laughable at best. Were you in a coma during the George W. Bush administration?
A better question regarding class warfare would be, what has Obama done that hasn’t contributed to class warfare? Republicans have historically created better and less restrictive business environments. Hiking up taxes on businesses and making them move out of state is a Liberal Democrat tactic. Look at Michigan and the Hellhole that is known as Detroit. 40+ years of a monolithic Democrat government has turned that city into a cesspool.
Destro,
I am niot saying other presidents were treated with the prioper respect either, but how President Obama has been treated dwarfs them. The only thing people did not like about President GW Bush was the war in Iraq. Which, in hindsight, was a miserable failure that needlessly cost us valuable American military lives and billions of taxpayer dollars, lead to a continuinfg civil war, further instability in the Middle East, and the establichment of ISIS. If we knew he had WMD, why not just bomb that/those location?
For me personally, the worst part was how the war was sold to us. VP Cheney knew what the result of invading the war would be, but did not express that. Here is his exact quote from 1992:
“[I]f we’d gone to Baghdad [in the first Gulf War] we would have been all alone. There wouldn’t have been anybody else with us. There would have been a U.S. occupation of Iraq. None of the Arab forces that were willing to fight with us in Kuwait were willing to invade Iraq.
Once you got to Iraq and took it over, took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq, you could very easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off: part of it, the Syrians would like to have to the west, part of it — eastern Iraq — the Iranians would like to claim, they fought over it for eight years. In the north you’ve got the Kurds, and if the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey.
It’s a quagmire if you go that far and try to take over Iraq.
The other thing was casualties. Everyone was impressed with the fact we were able to do our job with as few casualties as we had. But for the 146 Americans killed in action, and for their families — it wasn’t a cheap war. And the question for the president, in terms of whether or not we went on to Baghdad, took additional casualties in an effort to get Saddam Hussein, was how many additional dead Americans is Saddam worth?
Our judgment was, not very many, and I think we got it right.”
Sound familiar as to what really happened compared to what he said in 2003?
“We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators,”
Russert asked: “And you are convinced the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites will come together in a democracy?” Cheney replied quickly: “They have so far.”
“If you look at the opposition, they’ve come together, I think, very effectively, with representatives from Shia, Sunni and Kurdish elements in the population. They understand the importance of preserving and building on an Iraqi national identity. They don’t like to have the U.S., for example, come in and insist on dealing with people sort of on a hyphenated basis — the Iraqi-Shia, Iraqi-Sunni — but rather to focus on Iraq as a nation and all that it can accomplish as a nation, and we try to be sensitive to those concerns. I think the prospects of being able to achieve this kind of success, if you will, from a political standpoint, are probably better than they would be for virtually any other country and under similar circumstances in that part of the world.”
Ah yes, regime change would work out just fine — better than fine. “Extremists in the region would have to rethink their strategy of jihad,” Cheney had told the Veterans of Foreign Wars seven months earlier. “Moderates throughout the region would take heart.” Plus a bonus: “Our ability to advance the Israeli-Palestinian peace process would be enhanced.”
This, combined with lowering taxes during wartime to create an unmanageable debt, is why I did not vote for President GW Bush again in 2004.
TL;DR
Hey Agent. Ever heard of Vietnam?
…except America’s involvement in Vietnam really began in the JFK and peaked in the LBJ administrations. Not that I’m defending Agent, just pointing out that both parties have had their scandals and should both be reviled.
Gulf of Tonkin “incident”
You can actually take it back as far as Truman. That wasn’t my point.
I just thought that Agent’s comment on Haldeman not getting anyone killed in a foreign land showed a complete ignorance of history and I simply pointed out the obvious.
Yes, a Democrat Kennedy got us involved in that one, LBJ, a Democrat escalated it getting over 50,000 of our boys killed in it and a Republican, Nixon got us out of it.
I thought it was a Republican (Dwight Eisenhower) who got us involved in that one.
SEATO was used as a cover for Eisenhower to build a new nation in the South fighting against the Communists in the North. In 1955, the Republic of Vietnam was born
http://thevietnamwar.info/us-presidents-during-the-vietnam-war/#sthash.GPh2Jdhe.dpuf
Hey Rosenblatt, I hardly think Eisenhower sent 400,000 troops to Vietnam to get them killed. LBJ was really the one to blame for the huge escalation, inventing the Gulf of Tonkin incident to justify more escalation, and not having a plan to win. Back then, the strategy was to take a hill, then abandon it to the Viet Cong, take it again, abandon it again. Democrats are unique in their ignorance of how to fight a fight. The current one is the best example of recent years.
Agent – you posted that it was Kennedy who got us involved in Vietnam. My reply had nothing to do with who escalated it or who sent more troops to fight. It was solely about who got us involved in Vietnam, which occurred before Kennedy took office.
Agent,
Do you honestly believe the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are/were well fought?
You really did miss my entire point, didn’t you.
Well Ron, we did kick the Taliban out in Afghanistan and Saddam out of Iraq, so yes the military did their job. Did you know that your President said that Afghanistan was the right war for the right reasons? Did you know he voted against the surge in Iraq which reclaimed Iraq. Of course, since then he has telegraphed every move and told the enemy the dates of his withdrawal and all they have to do is wait. He abandoned Iraq entirely inviting ISIS to come in and then arrogantly called them the JV team. How has that worked out? Jordan woke up when their pilot was burned alive and is taking on the fight. We should support their efforts, give them all they need to fight since Obama will not fight.
Agent,
The Taliban hid for a while and are still in Afghanistan and Iraq is in worse shape now and has created a safe haven for ISIS to flourish. Good job.
Yes, the war in Afghanistanm was the right thing to do, but it is also the longest military conflict in U.S. history. Does not sound like it was necessarily executed that well.
I know President Obama’s voting record and I disagreed with him on that vote. As much as I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning, I believe the surge was the right thing to do at the time.
Why does it matter if the enemy knows when we are going to leave? Should we remain there forever and waste tax dollars and U.S. lives to help people who do not really want the help? It takes months to withdraw that many troops, so as soon as you begin, the enemy knows your leaving.
President Obama has ordered multiple attacks against ISIS even before Jordan. And you say I do not watch the news.
Bottom line, if we did not invade Iraq, we would not have to deal with ISIS, saved billions of dollars and valuable American lives, and may have taken out Osama bin Laden much sooner. But that must be President Obama’s fault.
“Bottom line, if we did not invade Iraq, we would not have to deal with ISIS, saved billions of dollars and valuable American lives, and may have taken out Osama bin Laden much sooner. But that must be President Obama’s fault.”
-You don’t know that we wouldn’t have to deal with ISIS.
-We would have saved billions of dollars and thousands of American lives but the consequences of doing nothing could have been far greater in both respects.
-Osama Bin Laden could have also never been taken out at all.
Hey there Captain Hindsight, it’s cool that you think that you’re some kind of alternate reality seer.
Destro,
You are correct when you said, “You don’t know that we wouldn’t have to deal with ISIS”. However, you don’t know, “the consequences of doing nothing could have been far greater in both respects.”
To be fair, I did say that we may have taken out Osama bin Laden much sooner.
Neither of us can know with any certainty how things would have played out if we did not go into Irag. However, VP Cheney knew what was going to happen and he and the Bush Administration lied to us.
By the way Ron, the Soviet Union had their issues with Afghanistan and tried to make them a province with a puppet government. After a lot of blood and treasure was expended by them, they decided it wasn’t worth it and pulled out. Why did Obama think it was the right war for the right reasons? That country is barbaric and lives in medieval times.
What state was LBJ from?
He was a Progressive Liberal Democrat from Texas who was the pits. He won his first race to the House by using dead people to vote. That strategy has been used by Democrats for years along with multiple voting from precinct to precinct. Even at that, he barely won. A man like him couldn’t get elected dog catcher the past 30 years in Texas.
Hey Destro, I saw a good political cartoon today. Dick Cheney in a picture said that Obama was the worst President ever in his lifetime. In the picture next to it was a picture of Castro, an ISIS leader in a hood, an Iranian Mullah, Assad of Syria and Putin from Russia. Caption said – We disagree!
Heh, yeah I mean comparing him to despots he’s not the worst. As far as US presidents go he’s definitely on a short list.
Rosemarie Woods deleted a 16 minutes or so of tape. Hillary delted 30,000 emails, but trust her that none had anything to do with her job, that would need to be preserved under any normal record retention requirement.
And of course we all set up email servers in our homes, for convenience sake.
Now ask who needs to go to jail for obstruction of justice and destruction fo evidence?
Isn’t it strange that the State Department can’t seem to locate the Separation agreement that she either did or didn’t sign? 14 days and still counting on that answer. That bimbo redhead spokesperson Psaki said she was still working on it. If Hillary didn’t sign it, didn’t turn over the records for two years, I believe she is in for some big trouble. If she did sign it, then didn’t turn over the records, she is still in big trouble. How many emails on Benghazi are deleted? She doesn’t get to pick and choose even if she is Hillary Clinton.
David, if you are a former President of the United States, you would get your own email server at home after you leave office. Now, all you have to do is run and be elected to office.
Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever.
What a joke.
Don’t worry, Obama will pardon her since she was Secretary of State in his administration. That list of pardons will be very long indeed.
The reason the GOP went after Bill Clinton was payback for Watergate. The last time Hilary turned over records, the GOP made sure to drag her name though the mud. That was in the 90’s.
Think Hilary is going to give the GOP free reign on her personal emails 15 years later? Dream on.
So, let’s recap — the GOP has Benghazi and a private email server maintained by a former president. Good luck in getting that to stick for the 2016 election. You would have better luck in backing a viable candidate that appeals to more than older white tea party guys.
If Hillary had been a Republican you would be frothing at the mouth with righteous indignation.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Even after all these years I can’t forgive or forget Tricky Dick and his minions. Hank, if my dad were a cheating crook, I’d probably try to rationalize it too.
Tricky Dick and minions are choir boys compared to who we have now.
I was Hank’s roommate 1971-72 at UCLA, before Watergate broke. It was our freshmen year. He was a good roommate. I made him laugh a lot. We had some great times.
I was Hank’s roommate at UCLA, 1971-72. We had some great times. He was a heck of a debator. You didn’t want to try to argue with him.