Yet another example of the left not understanding basic math. Obamacare is expensive. It has to be paid for with a whole series of new taxes, including taxes on medical device manufacturers, dividend taxes, capital gain taxes and this one. Try to eliminate or reduce this one and what about all the others? Face it, Obamcare is an abortion which upwards of 56% of the people area against. Repeal it and come up with a bipartisan solution. A law which people on both sides of the aisle can support instead of the one sided POS we have.
Good one Dave. A voice of reason laying it all out. A Democrat has never seen a tax that they don’t like. This Obamanation is over 5 years old and each year, it gets worse and worse. Anyone wonder how you can fix something irreparably broken? Repeal and replace with common sense is a good start.
You said, “A Democrat has never seen a tax that they don’t like.”, yet this article is about how Democratic candidates are calling for the real of a tax.
agent – here is a perfect place for you to apologize for your mistake. you said a democrat has never seen a tax they don’t like, yet this article is all about a democrat trying to repeal the tax break – clearly this democrat does not like the tax. care to admit you were wrong or would you rather respond with trolling insults? instead of manning-up?
I am going to put this here. It was in response to one of Rosenblatt’s comments in the Gunmakers’ article fomum.
Rosenblatt,
Do yourself a favor and stop feeding into Agent’s nonsense. If you haven’t realized this by now let me say this to you clearly: he is not one to properly rationalize logic. He is a bully, probably a racist and will never open his mind enough to realize anyone, even himself, can be wrong about something. You, Planet and especially Ron should just do what bothers bullies the most – ignore him. He is not going to change. He is not going to recognize his own contradictions. He is not going to admit when he is wrong. He is going to continue to waive around his proud, white flag of intolerance, self-riotousness and anger. I, and I am sure you have too, visited this site long enough to accurately predict his responses to any formidable argument. “You progressive socialist are ruining this country and have completely wrecked the traditional family!!!!” He is nothing but a bitter, angry bully. And Agent, if you read this…I know, I know. I am nothing but a leftist liberal socialist progressive hippie. =)
p.s. – my final sentence was sarcasm. I do not define myself with terms mostly used to separate this country even more than it already has been.
October 16, 2015 at 3:12 pm
Trust me I am not a liberal says:
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why are liberals always asking us on the Right to ‘admit when we’re wrong’, yet when they’re wrong, they turn blue in the face trying to prove their point?
October 16, 2015 at 3:40 pm
bob says:
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First you’re wrong about conservatives doing this, but the ones that do generally are trying to get you to admit you’re wrong on a current pertinent issue, and you’re (not all liberals but these people so it’s a generalized you for another small section) trying to make them say they are wrong on a past issue rather than debate on the current issue.
I have had this problem a lot here.
October 16, 2015 at 3:42 pm
bob says:
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Tolerance,
Agent is not a bully. Let’s just end that phrase. Bullies don’t get pushed around as much as agent does here.
He says charged commentary, much like Ron, much like Rosenblatt, and you just suggested to ostracize him rather than talk fairly and kindly, without calling him an racist idiot who doesn’t think with facts (belittling his opinion whether true or not).
I wonder what kind of behavior that is…What do we call it when someone attempts to make the public ostracize and separate someone? Is there a word for that?
“Bullying includes actions such as making threats, spreading rumors, attacking someone physically or verbally, and excluding someone from a group on purpose.”
” Leaving someone out on purpose
Telling other children not to be friends with someone
Spreading rumors about someone
Embarrassing someone in public”
So when these people are trying to force Agent for weeks on end (which Agent does not do to them as often and only in self defense) to either apologize or they will embarrass him further in this forum what is that?
You just said an effort to get people to ignore him.
What is that?
People who are not bullies don’t use these tactics. They rely on you know…Solving the situation and talking calmly.
I’ve been abused. I’ve been bullied. And every, single, bully, has become my friend.
Without exception. A bully usually to some degree even likes you and chooses you for their own redemption, but instead assaults you to achieve it.
Well, I figure give them their redemption through positive reinforcement, and be the damn support people need in the world instead of making reasons to divide and conquer everyone.
He’s a bully???? Ostracize him!
Apply a label, ruin him, and remove him from society.
It is cruel. I had it done to me, and I didn’t like it.
Bullies are humans as well, even if Agent were one. He deserves to be treated like a human, not ignored.
Let’s try to use some human compassion here.
October 16, 2015 at 6:14 pm
bob says:
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I mean really, one of my friends from middle school and highschool beat me up all the time, one of said times he hit my head into a brick wall. Just out of nowhere.
Another would invite me over at a very young age, like 5-7 to wrestle, and then would have me sent home by his parents when I would fight back. He shot my brother and I with pellet guns. Ever been shot by one of those? It hurts. Badly.
I had another who tried to spread rumors about my penis size, just for the hell of it. We had a mutual friend so I never even confronted him on it, we would have pleasant conversations when we were in the same house. He eventually changed.
I had another who literally tackled me and broke my finger. Out of nowhere. We never had an argument about it. He later calmed down.
I befriended those who people wouldn’t. The loners, the losers, the abused, the abandoned.
And let me tell you, I know for a fact none of you have been bullied.
The only person I didn’t befriend is one who mocked me every day at school calling me a “cack?”. He eventually threatened me on Halloween. I proceeded to point out to the entire class who was listening in, that he had challenged the largest football player in the school (the friend who broke my finger by tackling me) to a fight for no reason at all, and then associated that with my wanting to fight him and cowering out. It had nothing to do with me. They told him he was an idiot, because it is a fight he would never win, and then it was done, he never bullied me again.
Another of my friends groups had a guy who was in 8th grade selling pot. When I let the teachers know he threatened me and punched a locker (since he was huge) denting it to threaten me. I said something like “Look. I have nothing against you, but these kids are too young for pot”. They called me a certain name I won’t say because people who know me will know who I am if I say that and I do not want my public identity known. They called me that a long time, and made insults about my hair.
One of them apologized my senior year, and said he put me through hell and I never did anything to him.
So on, so forth. I don’t just fight with them.
So does it sound like I maybe, just maybe have some experience on the issue?
Have you had your head hit into a brick wall? I’m just curious, have you had a guy threaten to pound you into the ground with multiple friends for a full year? Dangerous people I might add.
And you talk of bullying as POSTS on a website?
How delusional are you?
October 18, 2015 at 2:06 pm
Tolerance Matters says:
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Bob,
I truly adore your passion. You seem to really care about the topic of bullying and how it can affect someone. When Agent says to me, Caption, Ron or anyone else, “You are nothing but a leftish liberal socialist democrat” or something along those lines (and be honest, you know he does) how do you read it? He says it with such contempt, such malice and so much hatred it comes across as bullying. He is basically saying, “You are something I am not and therefore I am better than you because of it”. Bob, again, your passion on the topic is inspiring but please be honest with yourself. You seem intelligent, very intelligent, and if you truly read what Agent has written so, so many times over you will see, and maybe feel, the hatred he lays onto anyone who does not believe what he does. I said to ignore Agent because he cannot be phased. Debating is the art of phasing. Challenging until your opponent realizes you are right and they are wrong. How many times has Agent said, “I am wrong” How many times, Bob? I hope you read this the way I meant to type it. There is nothing but peace, compassion and understanding in my words. I, too, hate bullying. That being said, take a closer look at Agent and imagine being under his attack. Is being a liberal really as evil as he makes it out to be?
October 19, 2015 at 6:56 pm
bob says:
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Tolerance,
You should gather that the way I look at humans is just different than you.
I don’t consider anger and hate to be bullying. I consider it to be human. I foresee the result of someone saying to ignore someone that they get put in a corner due to damage.
How do I view agent? Damaged. Do I agree with all the he says? No. Do I even agree with all that I say looking back at it? No. You will notice over time I start to defend someone whenever a crowd gathers around. A while back it finally showed when I went to actually help Libby. She was confused, but I basically said it wasn’t ok just to go in for the kill.
I see anger as anger, and I don’t consider Agent to be crossing the line anymore than the people you’re telling not to talk with him.
But I do see that Agent is ignored by many here and considered less of a person. I really don’t think anyone here thinks less of Ron as a human or Rosenblatt. I think people get over the top at them (myself included).
The point in my posts regarding bullying is not necessarily how seriously it is taken. It is in what action is taken.
My father was a bully as well when he was younger. I didn’t give up on him either. I believe in doing the right thing and having some proper discourse.
When Ron implies agent has no reading comprehension do you not see this as an insult? Agent gets mad at Ron’s youthful mind which tends to think of Agent as dumb.
Ron gets mad that Agent gets mad at him and calls him names basically.
I don’t particularly care about it that much, this is online fighting basically. It’s not a big deal. But I do get involved on Agent’s behalf because I sympathize for him.
October 19, 2015 at 7:04 pm
bob says:
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Tolerance,
In addition:
Using bullying tactics won’t stop a bully. I take issue with the methods.
You can’t make someone who is angry admit they are wrong, except by taking lead on the issue.
October 20, 2015 at 8:23 am
confused says:
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“Do I even agree with all that I say looking back at it? No” so you post things you don’t believe yet claim others are arguing disingenuously? that’s some pretty impressive mental gymnastics you are trying to pull off
October 15, 2015 at 6:02 pm
Agent says:
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Ron, you should be forced to read all 2700 pages of Obamacare and the thousands of pages added and report back to us on the taxes ladled into it. All Democrat all the time.
Really tolerance? You want Bob to take a look at my posts which are defending myself from the likes of Stan, Ins102, Confused, Ron and yes, even you. I have been called every name in the book, had my moniker stolen to post ugly things and you want Bob to denounce me. How laughable!
By the way, being a Progressive Socialist Liberal is pretty bad. Following the lead of Obama has gotten this country into a terrible mess and liberals keep giving him a pass. It is a good thing that he is a short timer.
October 19, 2015 at 11:39 am
confused says:
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agent – you are the first person to lob an insult at people at least 50% of the time. need proof? check out you insulting Lundberry for no good reason on this article
now can you explain to the class how you were “defending” yourself from Lundberry when you told him he needs to go back to school to learn how to write? or can you admit you went on the offensive to insult him there and you were not defending yourself what so ever?
October 19, 2015 at 12:24 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
I see you are always playing the victim.
Are you sure you’re not a liberal?
October 19, 2015 at 5:39 pm
bob says:
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And there is that any conservative hypocrisy card again Ron…
Why don’t you do what you asked of Agent, and admit you fuel the arguments with him.
Takes two to tango.
I’m not serious in that. I don’t expect you to. This is my essentially saying you’re being absurd.
October 19, 2015 at 7:01 pm
bob says:
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Dang it guys…
Confused: You can’t prove this unless you pull up all posts. Who started it is irrelevant, you all contribute and all fuel it.
Ron: Maybe if you weren’t saying condescending things to Agent all the time about his ability to read, type, and think…He wouldn’t be gunning for your throat to reveal you as an ideologue. You want to prove he’s a hypocrite, he wants to prove you’re an ideologue. Let’s settle for whatever topic is on topic on the day an argument is had.
Agent: I actually see nothing wrong with your post above, but they would probably see it a an insult to be called progressive socialist liberals…This is really just miscommunication because you talk differently than them.
October 19, 2015 at 7:02 pm
Ron says:
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bob,
I will admit that I occasionally fuel the fire Agent ignites.
You will never get such an admission from Agent. He is perfect.
October 20, 2015 at 8:31 am
confused says:
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“Confused: You can’t prove this unless you pull up all posts. Who started it is irrelevant, you all contribute and all fuel it.”
(1) there are only 2 posts to read – Lundberry’s only post in that article and Agent’s reply to that comment. That’s all that applies here.
(2) Who started it is NOT irrelevant. Agent implied he only insults someone when he has to defend himself. I provided the most recent example of Agent starting the insults.
Hopefully this will enlighten Agent to realize he does not solely respond to insults with insults, but that he begins to insult others when he hasn’t been insulted.
(3) Yes, I agree I fuel the fire. As Ron said, Agent will not acknowledge he does this as well.
AT THE LEAST, Agent could admit there is proof he does lob out the first insult even if nobody has insulted him first and maybe, just maybe, he should not go on the offensive and attack people for no good reason. He’s is not defending himself at all there – he’s starting the cycle of insults. To claim he only posts insults as a defense to someone insulting him is a flat out lie.
October 20, 2015 at 3:54 pm
BS says:
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Here you go Confused:
Forrest says:
I guess it would be presumptuous to ask “what was she ‘thinking’?” A real brain was obviously not involved in any of this.
Agent says:
Forrest, she was typical of the low information voter that permeates the landscape. I would bet the only thing she knows how to do is download an app and do her silly Facebook posting. I hope she doesn’t have cell access in jail.
Lundberry says:
isn’t being jail all about cell access ‘rimshot’
Confused says:
periscope is not facebook old man. also, she is a conservative republican and not a progressive democrat. finally, do you really think the cops will let her have her cell phone behind bars? that is absurd, even by florida’s standards
hahahahaha, nice post lundberry!
Agent says:
Yes, nice post lundberry. Perhaps you need to go back to school and learn how to construct a sentence and punctuate. I am used to it with confused since he is nothing but a Progressive troll. Maybe the two of you can meet at the next Hilliary rally.
It does look a bit like an unprovoked attack…
October 20, 2015 at 4:44 pm
confused says:
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thanks for taking the time to post that, BS. I am struggling to understand how Agent thought Lundberry was insulting him even in the slightest. I don’t think it could be any clearer that Lundberry was just making a joke and it wasn’t directed at anyone.
October 16, 2015 at 2:47 pm
bob says:
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So democrats don’t like taxes?
You’re main arguing style is to find hypocrisy or over passionate slip ups from agent and focus on it to discredit him.
Funny….You say the right does this much more savagely than the left.
I use methodology. I just had a huge gay right argument where it wasn’t until the end that the person (Ron) stopped trying to say I was against gays and disrupted the argument as such.
You will say my above comment was the same.
It’s not. The topic here is regarding Ron’s comment to disrupt Agent’s. Ron doesn’t have an argument there that shows democrats don’t like taxing.
So I asked the question, and he must now answer it.
Then I pointed out what he just did to Agent. He must now debate with the topic at hand, or continue arguing like he just did.
People like you think you’re a lot smarter than you are. Look at my history. Do I sound remotely like an idiot?
I often offer perspective no one else does, and I am willing to bet, you have literally never heard my gay marriage argument.
Literally, never.
Nor my argument on healthcare
Nor the social security plan with the new types.
Nor my suggestion I made this week about how to possibly remove the billions of dollars of marketing ads.
I am no fool. I won’t have some idiot come on here trying to say “hypocrite” for the 500th time. Let’s talk about the topic on hand.
October 16, 2015 at 4:05 pm
poke the bear says:
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i successfully poked the bear! you asked me if you sounded like an idiot and the answer is yes. why? you used the wrong word when you wrote ‘You’re main arguing style’ so I wrote ‘your main arguing style’ to correct you. and then you went on your rant making false claims for no reason besides making yourself feel better. i have heard all your arguments on gay marriage, healthcare, social security and possibly remove the billions of dollars of marketing ads. confused out
October 16, 2015 at 4:28 pm
bob says:
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Confused –
Ok, A:
I’m more than confident you have made errors in spelling on a site that you don’t pre check every post you make.
B: I’m not an idiot. So if you’re claiming misspelling that makes me an idiot you’re wrong.
C: We call this trolling. It is a reasonable assumption for me to make that you’re talking on the topic at hand. The only thing you’ve proven here is you are both and idiot and a troll.
October 16, 2015 at 4:36 pm
confused says:
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and i’m more than confident you are wrong at least 70% of the time when you make assumptions about people who post here
October 16, 2015 at 5:12 pm
bob says:
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You’re free to that thought, you’re not free to set up a scenario where I look like a fool because you made something look like it was something it wasn’t.
That shows more about you than it does I.
Moving on: My “assumptions” always involve proof. For example Ron claims to be moderate, and has constantly the last time told me republicans are more of hypocrites than democrats. I asked him for evidence, and gave him some myself, and he refused to put evidence.
Therefore I have as I often do, called him a fake moderate for his appearance.
My assumptions when I make them are generally well founded, they are not ones like you make, and let me be clear, you make many.
You mistake cliches, with reality. You’ve been a child far too long and need to grow out of it. When you get to about 30, you should be leaving this behind. But in your case I think you may actually be in that age range and still haven’t learned.
Example: Not all things are the same. So arguing back and forth how I’m the same as everyone else, is pointless. Just because I had the nerve to say Ron was not consistent and was lying about his voting history. He isn’t old enough to have voted past the 1992 election. So did he vote HW? Did he vote Dole? Did he vote Bush W? He has tried to say he votes moderately and I believe his mislead people on this fact. He says he will vote conservative this time.
I weight has actions, and I make a decision. It is not an assumption without merit.
All my thoughts have a great deal more thought than your average person.
Ergo my medical advertisement,
Ergo my gay marriage one,
Ergo Social security, etc.
October 16, 2015 at 3:57 pm
bob says:
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And another question Ron:
Do you know for a fact that this democrat candidate isn’t lying and removing this because it’s unpopular and then will go and introduce a new tax?
Perhaps Agent already looked up this candidate, and perhaps, his whole plan has much higher taxes.
Perhaps he is talking the big picture, not just one item in the grand scheme of many.
But you would rather see him as a hypocrite. This is your weakness.
You believe republicans are always hypocrites, and you want to expose them. Remove the bias, and you can become a moderate.
You asked, “Do you know for a fact that this democrat candidate isn’t lying and removing this because it’s unpopular and then will go and introduce a new tax?” No, but if they are attracting Democratic voters, why would they lie about removing any tax? According to Agent, all Democrats love all taxes. Based on that assumption, it would be political suicide to make any case against any tax in the middle of a Democratic primary. Either that or Agent is wrong. You decide.
The fact that you have to work that hard to defend Agent speaks volumes.
He is a hyperbolic, unapologetic, Conservative troll. He uses talking points and divisive language, including false labels to incite others. Then he complains that the country is so divided. He does not care whether or not the country is divided, he is mad because he and his ideology are becoming the minority.
You are way too smart to want to risk having any association with him.
October 16, 2015 at 4:20 pm
Ron says:
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bob,
I believe everyone is a hypocrite to some extent. The problem I have with Republicans, and especially Agent, is that they do not have the self awareness to admit it even when the facts are presented.
October 16, 2015 at 4:27 pm
Agent says:
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Ron, I don’t need Bob’s defense of me even though he is nice to do it. Of course, you will never give it any thought or acceptance. After all, you proudly voted for Obama twice and he is the most prolific spender we have seen in our lifetime. Look up the national debt ticker sometime and you will see what I mean. He has already gotten his wonderful 39.6% Progressive tax rate for the better off and if he had his way, it would be much higher than that. You like him so much because you don’t even pay Federal Income tax.
October 16, 2015 at 4:38 pm
confused says:
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YOU VOTED FOR OBAMA TWICE ignores ron’s non-presidential votes for republicans and his admission that he will vote republican this presidential election if there are no new democratic candidates to consider. give it a rest.
October 16, 2015 at 5:35 pm
Agent says:
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Bob, as long as we are talking about taxes, following is what I gleaned from Federal Tax Receipts & Expenditures.
1. Federal Tax Receipts for fiscal year 2015, a new record.
$3,248,723,000,000. That is up $212,927,100,000 from the $3,035,795,900,000 in fiscal 2014.
2. Expenditures – Fiscal 2015 is $3,687,622,000,000 for a deficit of $438,899,000,000.
We have 148,800,000 total workers including full and part time workers. That works out to a federal tax haul of for fiscal 2015 of $21,832.82 for every person in the United States with a job. If we had more workers, the figure would be less, but we know we have the lowest labor participation rate since 1977 so it is what it is. The record taxes we are paying still doesn’t keep up with the insatiable need for the government to spend so we continue to have big deficits and we continue to have to borrow from the public and people like China and Japan among others. Please advise how any business could survive spending so much more than they are taking in. Can we say “Bankruptcy”? Progressives are responsible for this in both parties.
October 19, 2015 at 12:22 pm
bob says:
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Yes Confused, you’re right, no moderate would vote for Obama twice.
He’s lying to appear moderate.
On this next election he could say it until the cows come home, he has also simultaneously called republicans bigger liars and hypocrites. Let me ask you, do you consider you personally vote for bigger liars and hypocrites?
He claimed to be a catholic. Do Catholics tend to vote for liars and hypocrites?
Do you know the Catholic demographics? I do. Ron matches them to the T.
He is what I will call a democrat Catholic apologetic. He votes for them but feels bad about it, but thinks republicans are worse.
It’s easy to see. Let me just point something out to you:
My father was a Catholic, I finally became one after being out it for a long time, but I was in it for some time as well. I was around the young crowd. Ron is a dime a dozen, and he is basically controlling public image of himself. That is what matters most to him in these arguments. He wants desperately to be forgiving, open minded, etc.
And it showed like heck when it came to the gay rights argument.
That is another he looked like a Catholic apologetic. He matches the demographic to the T. To, the, T!
Even when I made it secular he tried to make it religious and about oppression. No conservative does that. No moderate does that.
So he says republicans oppress gays, women, and are liars and hypocrites, he doesn’t want to do away with the estate tax by his own admission, he doesn’t want to reduce taxes on the wealthy, he wants to control the budget but doesn’t think republicans are as good on it, he doesn’t like their war aspects (something he has said is more important than abortion).
So let’s see if we have this right:
He wants gay marriage because he thinks they should have the rights, when he argued with me he tried to make religions oppressive of gays (Typical Catholic apologetic). He rarely if ever talks about abortion, except to say republicans are wrong for focusing on it, so I’m not sure his opinion on it, but, again, thinking republicans should stay out of it while being Catholic is a Catholic apologetic, and he simultaneously considers war worse, at which time I had to point him to a Catholic Bishop’s website with a voting pamphlet showing that babies came first according to the Church itself. I didn’t tell him at the time 48,000,000 babies were aborted last year world wide, 1.72 billion total to date (more than any wars). That would have been too logical and he’s an ideologue who constantly contradicts himself.
Now when we look at Ron, we can see that he is a walking contradiction in many ways. He is either a liar on the Catholic front, or is the type of Catholic I’m talking about. If he is that type of Catholic, he is obsessed with appearing moderate, but these people are the types that condemn hypocrisy and do it themselves in the Church. I’ve seen it.
So do I need to hear anything other than his opinions and that he voted for Obama twice, and all this info to know he’s basically a liberal? No.
October 19, 2015 at 12:54 pm
confused says:
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bob, if you were right about even 1/2 of things you ‘knew to be true’ about me, my age, my beliefs, my intelligence, the intent of my posts, who i voted for and why, et cetera, i would likely believe what you just said about ron. since i know you were constantly wrong when you posted things you thought were true about me (when you were really wrong about at least 90% of the things you said), i have to presume you are also wrong telling me all about ron. your track record of correctly identifying what someone believes, has argued in the past, or anything else about them, is very very poor.
October 19, 2015 at 1:30 pm
Ron says:
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Let’s count all of the falsehoods in just one of bob’s posts:
1. “He’s lying to appear moderate.” I have never claimed to be a moderate
2. “He votes for them but feels bad about it, but thinks republicans are worse.” I vote mostly for Republicans
3. “Even when I made it (gay rights argument) secular he tried to make it religious and about oppression.”
4. “So he says republicans oppress gays, women, and are liars and hypocrites, he doesn’t want to do away with the estate tax by his own admission, he doesn’t want to reduce taxes on the wealthy, he wants to control the budget but doesn’t think republicans are as good on it, he doesn’t like their war aspects (something he has said is more important than abortion).” With the exception of calling Republicans liars and hypocrites. To be fair I also think nearly all politician are liars and hypocrites.
bob, you actually greed with me that being against gay marriage is unconstitutional. That was my sole argument.
5. “He rarely if ever talks about abortion, except to say republicans are wrong for focusing on it,…” My stance on abortion: I am personally against it, but also believe all people should have the right to choose when it comes to anything that affects their bodies. However, I believe abortions should be illegal if the child is able to survive outside of the womb.
I do not recall ever saying that war is worse than abortion.
October 19, 2015 at 5:45 pm
bob says:
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“Let’s count all of the falsehoods in just one of bob’s posts:
1. “He’s lying to appear moderate.” I have never claimed to be a moderate
Yes you have. Independent is the same thing.
2. “He votes for them but feels bad about it, but thinks republicans are worse.” I vote mostly for Republicans
And voted for Obama twice? Nope. What State are you in? Which republican did you vote for that didn’t agree with Romney or McCain?
3. “Even when I made it (gay rights argument) secular he tried to make it religious and about oppression.”
I see what you did there. You’re not as smart as you think you are. You’re just a kid, I can tell.
4. “So he says republicans oppress gays, women, and are liars and hypocrites, he doesn’t want to do away with the estate tax by his own admission, he doesn’t want to reduce taxes on the wealthy, he wants to control the budget but doesn’t think republicans are as good on it, he doesn’t like their war aspects (something he has said is more important than abortion).” With the exception of calling Republicans liars and hypocrites. To be fair I also think nearly all politician are liars and hypocrites.
bob, you actually greed with me that being against gay marriage is unconstitutional. That was my sole argument.”
No. I did not agree with you. And it isn’t unconstitutional. What did I say? Or do you remember? The country is against treating two things that are the same differently. Gay marriage is not synonymous with pro creating marriage. The rights should not be equal, and the needs are not equal. We debated some time on this fact, and you constantly went back to ideological arguments until you pulled an Agent and said I was against dem der constitution. You’re just going to have to admit that gay marriage is not the same as straight marriage. Therefore making a separate marriage with those rights in mind is fair, and making an extension of pro creating advantages to those who do not procreate, is actually unfair.
5. “He rarely if ever talks about abortion, except to say republicans are wrong for focusing on it,…” My stance on abortion: I am personally against it, but also believe all people should have the right to choose when it comes to anything that affects their bodies. However, I believe abortions should be illegal if the child is able to survive outside of the womb.
I do not recall ever saying that war is worse than abortion.”
You stated that war was arguably as big of an issue when it came to politics. You are good enough with this to find your own comment. So do it.
October 19, 2015 at 5:48 pm
bob says:
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Ron,
You sound like a lying attorney, I mean really, you don’t recall the website I gave you regarding the Catholic Church voting morality?
You don’t recall. It may have happened, may not have right? At least you’re not lying eh?
Moving on: Your entire list were not falsehoods. If anything each one was an attempt for you to say you were conservative.
Not, buying, it.
I note you didn’t direct my estate tax argument. So why would you ever vote for republicans if this is the case?
You insulted REAGAN after the first election of Obama. Conservatives don’t do this.
This was while you refused to mock Obama.
Someone who enjoys insulting one party does not vote for it.
Also, you specifically recently told me you thought republicans were the greater hypocrite, so while you try to say you think all politicians are this way…
You already about a week ago said what I said you did.
I don’t spread falsehoods. I know why you do what you do and why you don’t realize you’re a liar. You bought your own crap.
I’ve seen you a lot in the Church, Catholic Apologetic, you know what I mean. You’re in the Church. You know what Catholics mean when they say this.
October 19, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Ron says:
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bob,
1. Moderate and Independent are NOT the same thing. A moderate is someone who identifies as a Democrat or Republican, but is willing to accept the flaws in their own party and how the other party may be “better”. An Independent does not identify with either party.
2. NY. I am not sure whether or not they agree with Sen. mcCain or Mitt Romney, but here is the list; Kathleen Weppner, Rob Astorino, John Cahill, Bob Antonacci, and Chris Moss
3. My position about gay marriage is from a legal rights standpoint, period.
4. When I asked you, “I am still waiting for you to quote where it says in the Constitution that it is OK to deny legal rights to 2 consenting adults that have been granted to 2 other consenting adults.”; you answered, “I don’t believe it’s ok to deny legal rights that have been granted to 2 other consenting adults.”
You said, “You’re just going to have to admit that gay marriage is not the same as straight marriage. Therefore making a separate marriage with those rights in mind is fair, and making an extension of pro creating advantages to those who do not procreate, is actually unfair.” What part of “separate but equal is unconstitutional” do you not understand?
5. I found your quote, now go find mine, boy. Either that or just admit that you are wrong.
October 20, 2015 at 8:36 am
Ron says:
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bob,
I have no desire to be considered a Conservative or Liberal or Democrat or Republican.
More falsehoods from bob:
“You insulted REAGAN after the first election of Obama. Conservatives don’t do this.”
When did I insult President Reagan? I have actually stated that I believe he is the best president we have had in my lifetime. Yes, I was alive when he was the President.
Pointing out the fact that Keynesian principles were used to pull the country out of the economic mess left by President Carter is not an insult, just a fact. In addition, I never said they were his ideas, but they were implemented.
As I have pointed out multiple times, the following these occurred during his term:
1. Spending increased
2. Annual deficits increased half of the years he was in office
3. The smallest deficit occurred during his 1st year in office
4. The national debt increased by 186%
5. The number of federal government employees increased by 324,000 or 6.5% increase.
6. There were tax increases in 5 out of 8 of his years in office, including an increase in the estate tax.
“This was while you refused to mock Obama.”
I have spoke against President Obama multiple times on this blog.
“Someone who enjoys insulting one party does not vote for it.”
I do not enjoy pointing out the flaws of the current Republican Party. It actually disappoints me, but I will continue to vote for Republicans if I believe they, as individuals, are the better candidate.
The problem we have, bob, is that you an assumption about me a while ago based on a post or 2 and want so badly to be right, you will spin anything to try to be right. Just admit that you were wrong about me and we can all move on.
October 20, 2015 at 1:43 pm
bob says:
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Hey Ron, I voted for Mccain and Romney, but I vote for other democratic candidates. I disagree with more taxes and I want Obamacare. I really believe that with Romney and Mccain in office we have no way of knowing if Obamacare or similar act would pass, so I can’t very well use that to judge whether or not these conservatives will pass my liberal ideals. I want an estate tax, for all I know maybe Jeb Bush will give it to me. I’m extremely for abortion.
I live in Washington State and I’m a liberal man, you’ll have to trust me that in governing seats I vote democrat, however. Democrats are huge liars, way bigger then republicans. But trust me that I vote for them when I say this.
I’m an independent.
You are so full of crap Ron…It’s unbelievable anyone is defending you right now. Though it makes sense considering who it is.
October 20, 2015 at 2:02 pm
Ron says:
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bob,
THAT is your response?
You have gone over the edge, or there is more moniker theft going on.
Time for a looonnnggg vacation. better yet, just go away, and take Agent with you.
October 20, 2015 at 3:06 pm
confused says:
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ron – i think we need to start taking everything bob says with a giant grain of salt. he wrote this earlier:
“Do I even agree with all that I say looking back at it? No”
so why should we believe him when he admits that he doesn’t agree with everything he says anyway? and yet he claims other people debate disingenuously. that’s some pretty impressive mental gymnastics
October 14, 2015 at 2:35 pm
BS says:
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the tax “may create an incentive to substantially lower the value of the benefits package” and shift costs to consumers.
May? There’s no ‘may’ about it. it’s happened.
I used to have awesome coverage. No deductible. A couple of co-pays, and practically nothing out of pocket. Blood work, MRIs and all other tests were covered 100%. It cost a bit more than all the other plans, but considering some of my health crap, it was worth it.
This year, my company did the private exchange thing, my ‘Cadillac’ plan is gone, and I ended up with the $350 deductible option. The coverage isn’t awful, but I’m still paying a lot more this year than I did last year for medical expenses. And it’s not just the deductible that gets me – it’s the co-pay. If they covered 100% after the deductible being met, I might not be as irritated, but only 80%? The average cost for an MRI is $2,611. I would be responsible for the $350 deductible, plus 20% of the remaining cost. $452 + $350 = $802. That’s $802 more than I would have paid out of pocket last year. And that’s not including the cost of the blood work that they have to do prior starting up the machine. I know that there is an out-of-pocket maximum, but considering I paid so little out of pocket last year, I’m not still not happy about it.
Oh, and let’s not forget the fact that the new deductible option is $50 more a paycheck than what I paid last year, for far better coverage… *sigh*
BS, you are only one of millions that have seen their benefits reduced, deductibles and out of pocket expense increased and you may have lost some access to doctors and hospitals you used to use. Many people on the individual exchanges have had to select much higher deductibles in the thousands. They may just stop going to the doctor because of the expense. Is that improving healthcare?
Ron, you now have your Independent candidate after Webb dropped out of the Democratic race and says he is considering an Independent run. He said he just doesn’t agree with the Democratic Party anymore and the two Socialists vying for the nomination.
It is really sad to see the party of Truman and Kennedy hijacked by the most left wing Progressive Socialists who are now in charge of it. So much for moderate Democrats. I wonder what the Blue Dogs are doing for a living now, lobbyists?
While I agree with you, it is just as sad to see the party of Eisenhower and Reagan being hijacked by the right wing Conservative nut jobs who are now in charge of the Republican Party.
Say what you want but the one and only reason they want to get rid of the tax is because the super majority of those subject to this tax are highly benefited public workers like teachers, police, firemen, railroad etc. You think they want to lose their vote? Amazing how these Dem’s can trash talk about the rich, the super pak’s, the rich lobby industry, the “Big Money” people and yet in the same breath they go out and pay for votes like it was part of the game.
We just have to spread the money around – BHO to Joe the Plumber. I am a modern Progressive – Hilliary
Bernie Sanders is basically a Communist. That is Socialism on steroids. Does anyone want to vote for either besides Planet and Stan and Celtica? By the way, the debate viewer ratings are in. 9 million fewer watched it than the last Republican debate. What a snooze job.
1 – stan already said he is not voting for any democrat currently running for president, so you are wrong there
2 – are you related to Joseph McCarthy?
3 – you say the democratic debate was a snooze job, but you also admitted you did not watch it. why should we care about what someone thinks about the debate when they didn’t even bother to watch it?
You should apologize confused. Stan has been the biggest cheerleader for Hilliary on this blog. Prior to that, Celtica and the now absent Libby.
I did see the low lights of the debate. About 1 minute was all I could stand to go with the summary provided by Fox which showed the clips. They were all afraid to confront their queen and hold her accountable and CNN was absent on follow ups.
October 15, 2015 at 11:40 am
confused says:
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sarcasm start; oh. okay. because you can definitely judge anything that lasts for an hour or more off of a 60 second clip. i’m sure one minute is enough time for anyone to understand what happened in the full debate. i did not like the _____ (insert name of new tv show or movie) because the first 60 seconds were horrible; end sarcasm
October 15, 2015 at 11:14 am
confused says:
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agent, please ignore the 1st point – it was ron who said he was not voting for any current democratic candidate, not stan. i was mistaken, i was wrong, and i apologize for my error.
They simply want to buy votes from teachers, police, fire, and other highly benefited union members for this up coming election. Nothing more, nothing less. Come on you don’t think they were working for you, do you?
I thought the unions were exempt? Did that change?
Also, going through my training, they didnt mention where the Tax for not having insurance will be for year three.
And last but not least, Democrats want to do away with a tax? How cold is it in hell?
FFA, I think the unions and a lot of big companies got an initial waiver on the Cadillac plans, but the waiver is due to run out, I think in 2017 so they are getting nervous now.
Hey FFA, good news! The House is voting to impeach the IRS Commissioner for false statements he gave to them and for not cooperating with required information. This comes after our wonderful DOJ decided to let Lois Lerner off. How Obama of them! I thought Obama would have to give her a pardon to get her off. Maybe Eric Holder is still lurking around the office.
Yet another example of the left not understanding basic math. Obamacare is expensive. It has to be paid for with a whole series of new taxes, including taxes on medical device manufacturers, dividend taxes, capital gain taxes and this one. Try to eliminate or reduce this one and what about all the others? Face it, Obamcare is an abortion which upwards of 56% of the people area against. Repeal it and come up with a bipartisan solution. A law which people on both sides of the aisle can support instead of the one sided POS we have.
Good one Dave. A voice of reason laying it all out. A Democrat has never seen a tax that they don’t like. This Obamanation is over 5 years old and each year, it gets worse and worse. Anyone wonder how you can fix something irreparably broken? Repeal and replace with common sense is a good start.
Agent,
You said, “A Democrat has never seen a tax that they don’t like.”, yet this article is about how Democratic candidates are calling for the real of a tax.
Do you ever get sick of being wrong?
agent – here is a perfect place for you to apologize for your mistake. you said a democrat has never seen a tax they don’t like, yet this article is all about a democrat trying to repeal the tax break – clearly this democrat does not like the tax. care to admit you were wrong or would you rather respond with trolling insults? instead of manning-up?
I am going to put this here. It was in response to one of Rosenblatt’s comments in the Gunmakers’ article fomum.
Rosenblatt,
Do yourself a favor and stop feeding into Agent’s nonsense. If you haven’t realized this by now let me say this to you clearly: he is not one to properly rationalize logic. He is a bully, probably a racist and will never open his mind enough to realize anyone, even himself, can be wrong about something. You, Planet and especially Ron should just do what bothers bullies the most – ignore him. He is not going to change. He is not going to recognize his own contradictions. He is not going to admit when he is wrong. He is going to continue to waive around his proud, white flag of intolerance, self-riotousness and anger. I, and I am sure you have too, visited this site long enough to accurately predict his responses to any formidable argument. “You progressive socialist are ruining this country and have completely wrecked the traditional family!!!!” He is nothing but a bitter, angry bully. And Agent, if you read this…I know, I know. I am nothing but a leftist liberal socialist progressive hippie. =)
p.s. – my final sentence was sarcasm. I do not define myself with terms mostly used to separate this country even more than it already has been.
why are liberals always asking us on the Right to ‘admit when we’re wrong’, yet when they’re wrong, they turn blue in the face trying to prove their point?
First you’re wrong about conservatives doing this, but the ones that do generally are trying to get you to admit you’re wrong on a current pertinent issue, and you’re (not all liberals but these people so it’s a generalized you for another small section) trying to make them say they are wrong on a past issue rather than debate on the current issue.
I have had this problem a lot here.
Tolerance,
Agent is not a bully. Let’s just end that phrase. Bullies don’t get pushed around as much as agent does here.
He says charged commentary, much like Ron, much like Rosenblatt, and you just suggested to ostracize him rather than talk fairly and kindly, without calling him an racist idiot who doesn’t think with facts (belittling his opinion whether true or not).
I wonder what kind of behavior that is…What do we call it when someone attempts to make the public ostracize and separate someone? Is there a word for that?
http://www.stopbullying.gov/what-is-bullying/definition/
“Bullying includes actions such as making threats, spreading rumors, attacking someone physically or verbally, and excluding someone from a group on purpose.”
” Leaving someone out on purpose
Telling other children not to be friends with someone
Spreading rumors about someone
Embarrassing someone in public”
So when these people are trying to force Agent for weeks on end (which Agent does not do to them as often and only in self defense) to either apologize or they will embarrass him further in this forum what is that?
You just said an effort to get people to ignore him.
What is that?
People who are not bullies don’t use these tactics. They rely on you know…Solving the situation and talking calmly.
I’ve been abused. I’ve been bullied. And every, single, bully, has become my friend.
Without exception. A bully usually to some degree even likes you and chooses you for their own redemption, but instead assaults you to achieve it.
Well, I figure give them their redemption through positive reinforcement, and be the damn support people need in the world instead of making reasons to divide and conquer everyone.
He’s a bully???? Ostracize him!
Apply a label, ruin him, and remove him from society.
It is cruel. I had it done to me, and I didn’t like it.
Bullies are humans as well, even if Agent were one. He deserves to be treated like a human, not ignored.
Let’s try to use some human compassion here.
I mean really, one of my friends from middle school and highschool beat me up all the time, one of said times he hit my head into a brick wall. Just out of nowhere.
Another would invite me over at a very young age, like 5-7 to wrestle, and then would have me sent home by his parents when I would fight back. He shot my brother and I with pellet guns. Ever been shot by one of those? It hurts. Badly.
I had another who tried to spread rumors about my penis size, just for the hell of it. We had a mutual friend so I never even confronted him on it, we would have pleasant conversations when we were in the same house. He eventually changed.
I had another who literally tackled me and broke my finger. Out of nowhere. We never had an argument about it. He later calmed down.
I befriended those who people wouldn’t. The loners, the losers, the abused, the abandoned.
And let me tell you, I know for a fact none of you have been bullied.
The only person I didn’t befriend is one who mocked me every day at school calling me a “cack?”. He eventually threatened me on Halloween. I proceeded to point out to the entire class who was listening in, that he had challenged the largest football player in the school (the friend who broke my finger by tackling me) to a fight for no reason at all, and then associated that with my wanting to fight him and cowering out. It had nothing to do with me. They told him he was an idiot, because it is a fight he would never win, and then it was done, he never bullied me again.
Another of my friends groups had a guy who was in 8th grade selling pot. When I let the teachers know he threatened me and punched a locker (since he was huge) denting it to threaten me. I said something like “Look. I have nothing against you, but these kids are too young for pot”. They called me a certain name I won’t say because people who know me will know who I am if I say that and I do not want my public identity known. They called me that a long time, and made insults about my hair.
One of them apologized my senior year, and said he put me through hell and I never did anything to him.
So on, so forth. I don’t just fight with them.
So does it sound like I maybe, just maybe have some experience on the issue?
Have you had your head hit into a brick wall? I’m just curious, have you had a guy threaten to pound you into the ground with multiple friends for a full year? Dangerous people I might add.
And you talk of bullying as POSTS on a website?
How delusional are you?
Bob,
I truly adore your passion. You seem to really care about the topic of bullying and how it can affect someone. When Agent says to me, Caption, Ron or anyone else, “You are nothing but a leftish liberal socialist democrat” or something along those lines (and be honest, you know he does) how do you read it? He says it with such contempt, such malice and so much hatred it comes across as bullying. He is basically saying, “You are something I am not and therefore I am better than you because of it”. Bob, again, your passion on the topic is inspiring but please be honest with yourself. You seem intelligent, very intelligent, and if you truly read what Agent has written so, so many times over you will see, and maybe feel, the hatred he lays onto anyone who does not believe what he does. I said to ignore Agent because he cannot be phased. Debating is the art of phasing. Challenging until your opponent realizes you are right and they are wrong. How many times has Agent said, “I am wrong” How many times, Bob? I hope you read this the way I meant to type it. There is nothing but peace, compassion and understanding in my words. I, too, hate bullying. That being said, take a closer look at Agent and imagine being under his attack. Is being a liberal really as evil as he makes it out to be?
Tolerance,
You should gather that the way I look at humans is just different than you.
I don’t consider anger and hate to be bullying. I consider it to be human. I foresee the result of someone saying to ignore someone that they get put in a corner due to damage.
How do I view agent? Damaged. Do I agree with all the he says? No. Do I even agree with all that I say looking back at it? No. You will notice over time I start to defend someone whenever a crowd gathers around. A while back it finally showed when I went to actually help Libby. She was confused, but I basically said it wasn’t ok just to go in for the kill.
I see anger as anger, and I don’t consider Agent to be crossing the line anymore than the people you’re telling not to talk with him.
But I do see that Agent is ignored by many here and considered less of a person. I really don’t think anyone here thinks less of Ron as a human or Rosenblatt. I think people get over the top at them (myself included).
The point in my posts regarding bullying is not necessarily how seriously it is taken. It is in what action is taken.
My father was a bully as well when he was younger. I didn’t give up on him either. I believe in doing the right thing and having some proper discourse.
When Ron implies agent has no reading comprehension do you not see this as an insult? Agent gets mad at Ron’s youthful mind which tends to think of Agent as dumb.
Ron gets mad that Agent gets mad at him and calls him names basically.
I don’t particularly care about it that much, this is online fighting basically. It’s not a big deal. But I do get involved on Agent’s behalf because I sympathize for him.
Tolerance,
In addition:
Using bullying tactics won’t stop a bully. I take issue with the methods.
You can’t make someone who is angry admit they are wrong, except by taking lead on the issue.
“Do I even agree with all that I say looking back at it? No” so you post things you don’t believe yet claim others are arguing disingenuously? that’s some pretty impressive mental gymnastics you are trying to pull off
Ron, you should be forced to read all 2700 pages of Obamacare and the thousands of pages added and report back to us on the taxes ladled into it. All Democrat all the time.
Go Cubs! Win it for FFA & Dave.
Really tolerance? You want Bob to take a look at my posts which are defending myself from the likes of Stan, Ins102, Confused, Ron and yes, even you. I have been called every name in the book, had my moniker stolen to post ugly things and you want Bob to denounce me. How laughable!
By the way, being a Progressive Socialist Liberal is pretty bad. Following the lead of Obama has gotten this country into a terrible mess and liberals keep giving him a pass. It is a good thing that he is a short timer.
agent – you are the first person to lob an insult at people at least 50% of the time. need proof? check out you insulting Lundberry for no good reason on this article
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2015/10/15/385109.htm/?comments
now can you explain to the class how you were “defending” yourself from Lundberry when you told him he needs to go back to school to learn how to write? or can you admit you went on the offensive to insult him there and you were not defending yourself what so ever?
Agent,
I see you are always playing the victim.
Are you sure you’re not a liberal?
And there is that any conservative hypocrisy card again Ron…
Why don’t you do what you asked of Agent, and admit you fuel the arguments with him.
Takes two to tango.
I’m not serious in that. I don’t expect you to. This is my essentially saying you’re being absurd.
Dang it guys…
Confused: You can’t prove this unless you pull up all posts. Who started it is irrelevant, you all contribute and all fuel it.
Ron: Maybe if you weren’t saying condescending things to Agent all the time about his ability to read, type, and think…He wouldn’t be gunning for your throat to reveal you as an ideologue. You want to prove he’s a hypocrite, he wants to prove you’re an ideologue. Let’s settle for whatever topic is on topic on the day an argument is had.
Agent: I actually see nothing wrong with your post above, but they would probably see it a an insult to be called progressive socialist liberals…This is really just miscommunication because you talk differently than them.
bob,
I will admit that I occasionally fuel the fire Agent ignites.
You will never get such an admission from Agent. He is perfect.
“Confused: You can’t prove this unless you pull up all posts. Who started it is irrelevant, you all contribute and all fuel it.”
(1) there are only 2 posts to read – Lundberry’s only post in that article and Agent’s reply to that comment. That’s all that applies here.
(2) Who started it is NOT irrelevant. Agent implied he only insults someone when he has to defend himself. I provided the most recent example of Agent starting the insults.
Hopefully this will enlighten Agent to realize he does not solely respond to insults with insults, but that he begins to insult others when he hasn’t been insulted.
(3) Yes, I agree I fuel the fire. As Ron said, Agent will not acknowledge he does this as well.
AT THE LEAST, Agent could admit there is proof he does lob out the first insult even if nobody has insulted him first and maybe, just maybe, he should not go on the offensive and attack people for no good reason. He’s is not defending himself at all there – he’s starting the cycle of insults. To claim he only posts insults as a defense to someone insulting him is a flat out lie.
Here you go Confused:
Forrest says:
I guess it would be presumptuous to ask “what was she ‘thinking’?” A real brain was obviously not involved in any of this.
Agent says:
Forrest, she was typical of the low information voter that permeates the landscape. I would bet the only thing she knows how to do is download an app and do her silly Facebook posting. I hope she doesn’t have cell access in jail.
Lundberry says:
isn’t being jail all about cell access ‘rimshot’
Confused says:
periscope is not facebook old man. also, she is a conservative republican and not a progressive democrat. finally, do you really think the cops will let her have her cell phone behind bars? that is absurd, even by florida’s standards
hahahahaha, nice post lundberry!
Agent says:
Yes, nice post lundberry. Perhaps you need to go back to school and learn how to construct a sentence and punctuate. I am used to it with confused since he is nothing but a Progressive troll. Maybe the two of you can meet at the next Hilliary rally.
It does look a bit like an unprovoked attack…
thanks for taking the time to post that, BS. I am struggling to understand how Agent thought Lundberry was insulting him even in the slightest. I don’t think it could be any clearer that Lundberry was just making a joke and it wasn’t directed at anyone.
So democrats don’t like taxes?
You’re main arguing style is to find hypocrisy or over passionate slip ups from agent and focus on it to discredit him.
Funny….You say the right does this much more savagely than the left.
Just saying.
your main arguing style
Wrong.
I use methodology. I just had a huge gay right argument where it wasn’t until the end that the person (Ron) stopped trying to say I was against gays and disrupted the argument as such.
You will say my above comment was the same.
It’s not. The topic here is regarding Ron’s comment to disrupt Agent’s. Ron doesn’t have an argument there that shows democrats don’t like taxing.
So I asked the question, and he must now answer it.
Then I pointed out what he just did to Agent. He must now debate with the topic at hand, or continue arguing like he just did.
People like you think you’re a lot smarter than you are. Look at my history. Do I sound remotely like an idiot?
I often offer perspective no one else does, and I am willing to bet, you have literally never heard my gay marriage argument.
Literally, never.
Nor my argument on healthcare
Nor the social security plan with the new types.
Nor my suggestion I made this week about how to possibly remove the billions of dollars of marketing ads.
I am no fool. I won’t have some idiot come on here trying to say “hypocrite” for the 500th time. Let’s talk about the topic on hand.
i successfully poked the bear! you asked me if you sounded like an idiot and the answer is yes. why? you used the wrong word when you wrote ‘You’re main arguing style’ so I wrote ‘your main arguing style’ to correct you. and then you went on your rant making false claims for no reason besides making yourself feel better. i have heard all your arguments on gay marriage, healthcare, social security and possibly remove the billions of dollars of marketing ads. confused out
Confused –
Ok, A:
I’m more than confident you have made errors in spelling on a site that you don’t pre check every post you make.
B: I’m not an idiot. So if you’re claiming misspelling that makes me an idiot you’re wrong.
C: We call this trolling. It is a reasonable assumption for me to make that you’re talking on the topic at hand. The only thing you’ve proven here is you are both and idiot and a troll.
and i’m more than confident you are wrong at least 70% of the time when you make assumptions about people who post here
You’re free to that thought, you’re not free to set up a scenario where I look like a fool because you made something look like it was something it wasn’t.
That shows more about you than it does I.
Moving on: My “assumptions” always involve proof. For example Ron claims to be moderate, and has constantly the last time told me republicans are more of hypocrites than democrats. I asked him for evidence, and gave him some myself, and he refused to put evidence.
Therefore I have as I often do, called him a fake moderate for his appearance.
My assumptions when I make them are generally well founded, they are not ones like you make, and let me be clear, you make many.
You mistake cliches, with reality. You’ve been a child far too long and need to grow out of it. When you get to about 30, you should be leaving this behind. But in your case I think you may actually be in that age range and still haven’t learned.
Example: Not all things are the same. So arguing back and forth how I’m the same as everyone else, is pointless. Just because I had the nerve to say Ron was not consistent and was lying about his voting history. He isn’t old enough to have voted past the 1992 election. So did he vote HW? Did he vote Dole? Did he vote Bush W? He has tried to say he votes moderately and I believe his mislead people on this fact. He says he will vote conservative this time.
I weight has actions, and I make a decision. It is not an assumption without merit.
All my thoughts have a great deal more thought than your average person.
Ergo my medical advertisement,
Ergo my gay marriage one,
Ergo Social security, etc.
And another question Ron:
Do you know for a fact that this democrat candidate isn’t lying and removing this because it’s unpopular and then will go and introduce a new tax?
Perhaps Agent already looked up this candidate, and perhaps, his whole plan has much higher taxes.
Perhaps he is talking the big picture, not just one item in the grand scheme of many.
But you would rather see him as a hypocrite. This is your weakness.
You believe republicans are always hypocrites, and you want to expose them. Remove the bias, and you can become a moderate.
bob,
You asked, “Do you know for a fact that this democrat candidate isn’t lying and removing this because it’s unpopular and then will go and introduce a new tax?” No, but if they are attracting Democratic voters, why would they lie about removing any tax? According to Agent, all Democrats love all taxes. Based on that assumption, it would be political suicide to make any case against any tax in the middle of a Democratic primary. Either that or Agent is wrong. You decide.
The fact that you have to work that hard to defend Agent speaks volumes.
He is a hyperbolic, unapologetic, Conservative troll. He uses talking points and divisive language, including false labels to incite others. Then he complains that the country is so divided. He does not care whether or not the country is divided, he is mad because he and his ideology are becoming the minority.
You are way too smart to want to risk having any association with him.
bob,
I believe everyone is a hypocrite to some extent. The problem I have with Republicans, and especially Agent, is that they do not have the self awareness to admit it even when the facts are presented.
Ron, I don’t need Bob’s defense of me even though he is nice to do it. Of course, you will never give it any thought or acceptance. After all, you proudly voted for Obama twice and he is the most prolific spender we have seen in our lifetime. Look up the national debt ticker sometime and you will see what I mean. He has already gotten his wonderful 39.6% Progressive tax rate for the better off and if he had his way, it would be much higher than that. You like him so much because you don’t even pay Federal Income tax.
YOU VOTED FOR OBAMA TWICE ignores ron’s non-presidential votes for republicans and his admission that he will vote republican this presidential election if there are no new democratic candidates to consider. give it a rest.
Bob, as long as we are talking about taxes, following is what I gleaned from Federal Tax Receipts & Expenditures.
1. Federal Tax Receipts for fiscal year 2015, a new record.
$3,248,723,000,000. That is up $212,927,100,000 from the $3,035,795,900,000 in fiscal 2014.
2. Expenditures – Fiscal 2015 is $3,687,622,000,000 for a deficit of $438,899,000,000.
We have 148,800,000 total workers including full and part time workers. That works out to a federal tax haul of for fiscal 2015 of $21,832.82 for every person in the United States with a job. If we had more workers, the figure would be less, but we know we have the lowest labor participation rate since 1977 so it is what it is. The record taxes we are paying still doesn’t keep up with the insatiable need for the government to spend so we continue to have big deficits and we continue to have to borrow from the public and people like China and Japan among others. Please advise how any business could survive spending so much more than they are taking in. Can we say “Bankruptcy”? Progressives are responsible for this in both parties.
Yes Confused, you’re right, no moderate would vote for Obama twice.
He’s lying to appear moderate.
On this next election he could say it until the cows come home, he has also simultaneously called republicans bigger liars and hypocrites. Let me ask you, do you consider you personally vote for bigger liars and hypocrites?
He claimed to be a catholic. Do Catholics tend to vote for liars and hypocrites?
Do you know the Catholic demographics? I do. Ron matches them to the T.
He is what I will call a democrat Catholic apologetic. He votes for them but feels bad about it, but thinks republicans are worse.
It’s easy to see. Let me just point something out to you:
My father was a Catholic, I finally became one after being out it for a long time, but I was in it for some time as well. I was around the young crowd. Ron is a dime a dozen, and he is basically controlling public image of himself. That is what matters most to him in these arguments. He wants desperately to be forgiving, open minded, etc.
And it showed like heck when it came to the gay rights argument.
That is another he looked like a Catholic apologetic. He matches the demographic to the T. To, the, T!
Even when I made it secular he tried to make it religious and about oppression. No conservative does that. No moderate does that.
So he says republicans oppress gays, women, and are liars and hypocrites, he doesn’t want to do away with the estate tax by his own admission, he doesn’t want to reduce taxes on the wealthy, he wants to control the budget but doesn’t think republicans are as good on it, he doesn’t like their war aspects (something he has said is more important than abortion).
So let’s see if we have this right:
He wants gay marriage because he thinks they should have the rights, when he argued with me he tried to make religions oppressive of gays (Typical Catholic apologetic). He rarely if ever talks about abortion, except to say republicans are wrong for focusing on it, so I’m not sure his opinion on it, but, again, thinking republicans should stay out of it while being Catholic is a Catholic apologetic, and he simultaneously considers war worse, at which time I had to point him to a Catholic Bishop’s website with a voting pamphlet showing that babies came first according to the Church itself. I didn’t tell him at the time 48,000,000 babies were aborted last year world wide, 1.72 billion total to date (more than any wars). That would have been too logical and he’s an ideologue who constantly contradicts himself.
Now when we look at Ron, we can see that he is a walking contradiction in many ways. He is either a liar on the Catholic front, or is the type of Catholic I’m talking about. If he is that type of Catholic, he is obsessed with appearing moderate, but these people are the types that condemn hypocrisy and do it themselves in the Church. I’ve seen it.
So do I need to hear anything other than his opinions and that he voted for Obama twice, and all this info to know he’s basically a liberal? No.
bob, if you were right about even 1/2 of things you ‘knew to be true’ about me, my age, my beliefs, my intelligence, the intent of my posts, who i voted for and why, et cetera, i would likely believe what you just said about ron. since i know you were constantly wrong when you posted things you thought were true about me (when you were really wrong about at least 90% of the things you said), i have to presume you are also wrong telling me all about ron. your track record of correctly identifying what someone believes, has argued in the past, or anything else about them, is very very poor.
Let’s count all of the falsehoods in just one of bob’s posts:
1. “He’s lying to appear moderate.” I have never claimed to be a moderate
2. “He votes for them but feels bad about it, but thinks republicans are worse.” I vote mostly for Republicans
3. “Even when I made it (gay rights argument) secular he tried to make it religious and about oppression.”
4. “So he says republicans oppress gays, women, and are liars and hypocrites, he doesn’t want to do away with the estate tax by his own admission, he doesn’t want to reduce taxes on the wealthy, he wants to control the budget but doesn’t think republicans are as good on it, he doesn’t like their war aspects (something he has said is more important than abortion).” With the exception of calling Republicans liars and hypocrites. To be fair I also think nearly all politician are liars and hypocrites.
bob, you actually greed with me that being against gay marriage is unconstitutional. That was my sole argument.
5. “He rarely if ever talks about abortion, except to say republicans are wrong for focusing on it,…” My stance on abortion: I am personally against it, but also believe all people should have the right to choose when it comes to anything that affects their bodies. However, I believe abortions should be illegal if the child is able to survive outside of the womb.
I do not recall ever saying that war is worse than abortion.
“Let’s count all of the falsehoods in just one of bob’s posts:
1. “He’s lying to appear moderate.” I have never claimed to be a moderate
Yes you have. Independent is the same thing.
2. “He votes for them but feels bad about it, but thinks republicans are worse.” I vote mostly for Republicans
And voted for Obama twice? Nope. What State are you in? Which republican did you vote for that didn’t agree with Romney or McCain?
3. “Even when I made it (gay rights argument) secular he tried to make it religious and about oppression.”
I see what you did there. You’re not as smart as you think you are. You’re just a kid, I can tell.
4. “So he says republicans oppress gays, women, and are liars and hypocrites, he doesn’t want to do away with the estate tax by his own admission, he doesn’t want to reduce taxes on the wealthy, he wants to control the budget but doesn’t think republicans are as good on it, he doesn’t like their war aspects (something he has said is more important than abortion).” With the exception of calling Republicans liars and hypocrites. To be fair I also think nearly all politician are liars and hypocrites.
bob, you actually greed with me that being against gay marriage is unconstitutional. That was my sole argument.”
No. I did not agree with you. And it isn’t unconstitutional. What did I say? Or do you remember? The country is against treating two things that are the same differently. Gay marriage is not synonymous with pro creating marriage. The rights should not be equal, and the needs are not equal. We debated some time on this fact, and you constantly went back to ideological arguments until you pulled an Agent and said I was against dem der constitution. You’re just going to have to admit that gay marriage is not the same as straight marriage. Therefore making a separate marriage with those rights in mind is fair, and making an extension of pro creating advantages to those who do not procreate, is actually unfair.
5. “He rarely if ever talks about abortion, except to say republicans are wrong for focusing on it,…” My stance on abortion: I am personally against it, but also believe all people should have the right to choose when it comes to anything that affects their bodies. However, I believe abortions should be illegal if the child is able to survive outside of the womb.
I do not recall ever saying that war is worse than abortion.”
You stated that war was arguably as big of an issue when it came to politics. You are good enough with this to find your own comment. So do it.
Ron,
You sound like a lying attorney, I mean really, you don’t recall the website I gave you regarding the Catholic Church voting morality?
You don’t recall. It may have happened, may not have right? At least you’re not lying eh?
Moving on: Your entire list were not falsehoods. If anything each one was an attempt for you to say you were conservative.
Not, buying, it.
I note you didn’t direct my estate tax argument. So why would you ever vote for republicans if this is the case?
You insulted REAGAN after the first election of Obama. Conservatives don’t do this.
This was while you refused to mock Obama.
Someone who enjoys insulting one party does not vote for it.
Also, you specifically recently told me you thought republicans were the greater hypocrite, so while you try to say you think all politicians are this way…
You already about a week ago said what I said you did.
I don’t spread falsehoods. I know why you do what you do and why you don’t realize you’re a liar. You bought your own crap.
I’ve seen you a lot in the Church, Catholic Apologetic, you know what I mean. You’re in the Church. You know what Catholics mean when they say this.
bob,
1. Moderate and Independent are NOT the same thing. A moderate is someone who identifies as a Democrat or Republican, but is willing to accept the flaws in their own party and how the other party may be “better”. An Independent does not identify with either party.
2. NY. I am not sure whether or not they agree with Sen. mcCain or Mitt Romney, but here is the list; Kathleen Weppner, Rob Astorino, John Cahill, Bob Antonacci, and Chris Moss
3. My position about gay marriage is from a legal rights standpoint, period.
4. When I asked you, “I am still waiting for you to quote where it says in the Constitution that it is OK to deny legal rights to 2 consenting adults that have been granted to 2 other consenting adults.”; you answered, “I don’t believe it’s ok to deny legal rights that have been granted to 2 other consenting adults.”
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/10/02/383689.htm/?comments
You said, “You’re just going to have to admit that gay marriage is not the same as straight marriage. Therefore making a separate marriage with those rights in mind is fair, and making an extension of pro creating advantages to those who do not procreate, is actually unfair.” What part of “separate but equal is unconstitutional” do you not understand?
5. I found your quote, now go find mine, boy. Either that or just admit that you are wrong.
bob,
I have no desire to be considered a Conservative or Liberal or Democrat or Republican.
More falsehoods from bob:
“You insulted REAGAN after the first election of Obama. Conservatives don’t do this.”
When did I insult President Reagan? I have actually stated that I believe he is the best president we have had in my lifetime. Yes, I was alive when he was the President.
Pointing out the fact that Keynesian principles were used to pull the country out of the economic mess left by President Carter is not an insult, just a fact. In addition, I never said they were his ideas, but they were implemented.
As I have pointed out multiple times, the following these occurred during his term:
1. Spending increased
2. Annual deficits increased half of the years he was in office
3. The smallest deficit occurred during his 1st year in office
4. The national debt increased by 186%
5. The number of federal government employees increased by 324,000 or 6.5% increase.
6. There were tax increases in 5 out of 8 of his years in office, including an increase in the estate tax.
“This was while you refused to mock Obama.”
I have spoke against President Obama multiple times on this blog.
“Someone who enjoys insulting one party does not vote for it.”
I do not enjoy pointing out the flaws of the current Republican Party. It actually disappoints me, but I will continue to vote for Republicans if I believe they, as individuals, are the better candidate.
The problem we have, bob, is that you an assumption about me a while ago based on a post or 2 and want so badly to be right, you will spin anything to try to be right. Just admit that you were wrong about me and we can all move on.
Hey Ron, I voted for Mccain and Romney, but I vote for other democratic candidates. I disagree with more taxes and I want Obamacare. I really believe that with Romney and Mccain in office we have no way of knowing if Obamacare or similar act would pass, so I can’t very well use that to judge whether or not these conservatives will pass my liberal ideals. I want an estate tax, for all I know maybe Jeb Bush will give it to me. I’m extremely for abortion.
I live in Washington State and I’m a liberal man, you’ll have to trust me that in governing seats I vote democrat, however. Democrats are huge liars, way bigger then republicans. But trust me that I vote for them when I say this.
I’m an independent.
You are so full of crap Ron…It’s unbelievable anyone is defending you right now. Though it makes sense considering who it is.
bob,
THAT is your response?
You have gone over the edge, or there is more moniker theft going on.
Time for a looonnnggg vacation. better yet, just go away, and take Agent with you.
ron – i think we need to start taking everything bob says with a giant grain of salt. he wrote this earlier:
“Do I even agree with all that I say looking back at it? No”
so why should we believe him when he admits that he doesn’t agree with everything he says anyway? and yet he claims other people debate disingenuously. that’s some pretty impressive mental gymnastics
the tax “may create an incentive to substantially lower the value of the benefits package” and shift costs to consumers.
May? There’s no ‘may’ about it. it’s happened.
I used to have awesome coverage. No deductible. A couple of co-pays, and practically nothing out of pocket. Blood work, MRIs and all other tests were covered 100%. It cost a bit more than all the other plans, but considering some of my health crap, it was worth it.
This year, my company did the private exchange thing, my ‘Cadillac’ plan is gone, and I ended up with the $350 deductible option. The coverage isn’t awful, but I’m still paying a lot more this year than I did last year for medical expenses. And it’s not just the deductible that gets me – it’s the co-pay. If they covered 100% after the deductible being met, I might not be as irritated, but only 80%? The average cost for an MRI is $2,611. I would be responsible for the $350 deductible, plus 20% of the remaining cost. $452 + $350 = $802. That’s $802 more than I would have paid out of pocket last year. And that’s not including the cost of the blood work that they have to do prior starting up the machine. I know that there is an out-of-pocket maximum, but considering I paid so little out of pocket last year, I’m not still not happy about it.
Oh, and let’s not forget the fact that the new deductible option is $50 more a paycheck than what I paid last year, for far better coverage… *sigh*
BS, you are only one of millions that have seen their benefits reduced, deductibles and out of pocket expense increased and you may have lost some access to doctors and hospitals you used to use. Many people on the individual exchanges have had to select much higher deductibles in the thousands. They may just stop going to the doctor because of the expense. Is that improving healthcare?
“If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.”
Dont forget that there is no stop loss. Co Pay to Doct / Specialists / Er Visits never end.
Ron, you now have your Independent candidate after Webb dropped out of the Democratic race and says he is considering an Independent run. He said he just doesn’t agree with the Democratic Party anymore and the two Socialists vying for the nomination.
It is really sad to see the party of Truman and Kennedy hijacked by the most left wing Progressive Socialists who are now in charge of it. So much for moderate Democrats. I wonder what the Blue Dogs are doing for a living now, lobbyists?
Agent,
While I agree with you, it is just as sad to see the party of Eisenhower and Reagan being hijacked by the right wing Conservative nut jobs who are now in charge of the Republican Party.
Say what you want but the one and only reason they want to get rid of the tax is because the super majority of those subject to this tax are highly benefited public workers like teachers, police, firemen, railroad etc. You think they want to lose their vote? Amazing how these Dem’s can trash talk about the rich, the super pak’s, the rich lobby industry, the “Big Money” people and yet in the same breath they go out and pay for votes like it was part of the game.
The Dem’s just have different masters including the public service unions, trial lawyers and those seeking corporate welfare (Im-Ex bank users).
We just have to spread the money around – BHO to Joe the Plumber. I am a modern Progressive – Hilliary
Bernie Sanders is basically a Communist. That is Socialism on steroids. Does anyone want to vote for either besides Planet and Stan and Celtica? By the way, the debate viewer ratings are in. 9 million fewer watched it than the last Republican debate. What a snooze job.
1 – stan already said he is not voting for any democrat currently running for president, so you are wrong there
2 – are you related to Joseph McCarthy?
3 – you say the democratic debate was a snooze job, but you also admitted you did not watch it. why should we care about what someone thinks about the debate when they didn’t even bother to watch it?
You should apologize confused. Stan has been the biggest cheerleader for Hilliary on this blog. Prior to that, Celtica and the now absent Libby.
I did see the low lights of the debate. About 1 minute was all I could stand to go with the summary provided by Fox which showed the clips. They were all afraid to confront their queen and hold her accountable and CNN was absent on follow ups.
sarcasm start; oh. okay. because you can definitely judge anything that lasts for an hour or more off of a 60 second clip. i’m sure one minute is enough time for anyone to understand what happened in the full debate. i did not like the _____ (insert name of new tv show or movie) because the first 60 seconds were horrible; end sarcasm
agent, please ignore the 1st point – it was ron who said he was not voting for any current democratic candidate, not stan. i was mistaken, i was wrong, and i apologize for my error.
They simply want to buy votes from teachers, police, fire, and other highly benefited union members for this up coming election. Nothing more, nothing less. Come on you don’t think they were working for you, do you?
I thought the unions were exempt? Did that change?
Also, going through my training, they didnt mention where the Tax for not having insurance will be for year three.
And last but not least, Democrats want to do away with a tax? How cold is it in hell?
FFA, I think the penalty for not buying goes up to $695 in 2016 and yes, it is a tax, not a fine.
FFA, I think the unions and a lot of big companies got an initial waiver on the Cadillac plans, but the waiver is due to run out, I think in 2017 so they are getting nervous now.
Hey FFA, good news! The House is voting to impeach the IRS Commissioner for false statements he gave to them and for not cooperating with required information. This comes after our wonderful DOJ decided to let Lois Lerner off. How Obama of them! I thought Obama would have to give her a pardon to get her off. Maybe Eric Holder is still lurking around the office.