Soooooooo racism does not exist? Or is it that it just be ignored? There should be punishment for crimes right??? If I agree via settlement that I have been discriminatory in my employemnt practices should I just get a pass?? Do you know how many lives have been ruined because of racially biased actions – missed promotions, no raise or just not given the SAME opportunity???
If you would focus on the present opportunities that you have and capitalize on them, rather than remain a perpetual victim, you stand a much better chance of getting ahead.
If you have few skills and an entitlement mentality, that is your own fault. You can change those circumstances, but you have to want to do so. It does not sound like you do, so you will always be in bondage.
Oh contrare mon ami!!! That would be I believe $21.4M dollars that are due and payable now. Yeah that BS about pulling neself up by your bootstraps – well you find that after pulling yourself up someone that knows someone that knows someone received an oportunity that was never availble to someone of a draker or diffrent hue. But I guess that is fair huh? Just so long as others reap the privileges of their ancestry there will always be lawsuits that will result in payment due to ignorant and racist behavior. Nobody I know is asking for a handout just an opportunity – what do you know other than what you probably have read or seen on the telly.
Cowdogs – whew you are very close to discrimination with your statement.
Do you know how many African-American professional have to work twice as hard to get half as far as their counterparts? I have even seen some African-Americans train their co-workers just so the co-worker can get ahead and get the promotion that the African-American has worked so hard for.
I guess you would be satisfied if they just sit back, shuffle their feet and said “thank ya for my paycheck, sur”. Yea, mam, I’s greatful, righty where I is.
If you have such strengths, capitalize on them. Start a business. Offer a service. Don’t spend you time calculating how much you subjectively thought you were worth. The only objective measure of that is the free marketplace.
People now expect equality of outcome and are not satisfied with equality of opportunity. When I stopped seeing myself as a victim, I was able to position myself in the industry to maximize my talents and support my goals. Anyone can…….. If you stay in a place that exploits your talents and ignores your goals, you’re not a victim. You’re an idiot!
Brokette
You have hit the proverbial nail on the head “the equality of opportunity” does not ALWAYS existHow else can you explain individuals with very similar educational backgrounds and training be provided different opportunities??? Look around our industry exactly how many non majority folks do you run across??? The field is not level opportunities are not the same the same work does not always result in the same opportuniites in the real world and thats why there are these lawsuits and again I say tehy will continue until things earnestly CHANGE.
Is it racism to believe that one should move forward on abilities and skills, rather than skin color? Agreed, perhaps in the past white people benefited from that sort of “racism”, but there has been a turn-about that recognizes that as unfair and illegal.
The reparations claimant seems to think that he/she is entitled to such reparations, on a mass basis, predicated upon what happened generations ago. If he/she has experienced it in the here and now, in violation of then-existing law, she has a remedy at law. If she can prove the violation, and quantify damages, more power to her.
That said, in this forum he/she has portrayed him/herself as a victim and a whiner. If he/she does the same in the workplace, one can understand why he/she does not get ahead.
The company by the mere fact that they are paying out millions are admitting that their internal practices were wrong. If you read the article closely you will see that not only did this affect people of color, but women as well.
I disagree with the assertion that just because a person is black, or a woman or whatever they should get paid merely based on that fact. But on the flip side of that if people are being discriminated against and denied promotions and pay raises based on their color and/or gender alone (not their abilities) it is plain wrong, and the company should have to pay!
The bottom line is that smart organizations promote and mentor their best talent. Stupid companies may engage in all types of discrimination but they only hurt themselves by refusing to utilize their “best and brightest”. Books were published in the 1970’s about the phenomenon as women began to enter the workforce in large numbers and prove their mettle. No longer were they disqualified by the “pregnancy excuse”. Xerox and IBM learned very quickly that their competitors would outpace them if they didn’t join the party and hire productive women. If you won’t let me rise in your organization, I will take a job with your competitor and do my level-best to see you fail. And, BTW, enjoy every minute of it. And THAT’S how it’s done.
Brokette
You should be very upset only if it is like Kodak who settled $21.4MM lawsuit because they were accused of “discriminatory practices in pay and promotions”. If DeathRow Records refused to sign a caucasian or better yet signed them and then did not pay them equitably then I would say you have a case – CALL ME. Once again we cannot talk apples to apples, nobody is asking for a set number of jobs just OPPORTUNITY to ply one’s trade.
1) you are not a african-american. you are an american and have been so for your entire life. i am tired of folks using a phrase that does not fit. we are a melting pot. i could be a german-american because i was born in germany to a GI and a german lady. but i believe in being an american and hold only one citizenship.
2) if you keep using these kind of phrases, everyone is going to play the race card. afterall, if you looked recently of the firefighters in NY (i think that is correct), where it was the white folks got the courts to agree they were discriminated against.
what happened to finally stop this you are better than me just because? not just on skill and actions? when are we going to finally realize as a country, we are all one! currently the congress is trying to help by passing a health care plan that can help everyone not a particular group of folks. when we go to war, do you think our military folks look at color to determine what you can do? did we not have a Chairman JCS that was not white? military believes on your ability to do the job and do it well. i sitting next to you and we both need each other. some of us repair aircraft or rig a chute. others provide maintenance or fly a jet. it does not matter if man or woman, they both get paid the same for the same job and rank. when will that be looked at on the civilian side? how many companies large and small will finally realize, it is the competence of the person doing the job.
AMERICA – melting pot. courage of all to stand together, why does it have to only be because of a disaster? let’s bring it together and stop this hatred.
Cowdogs:
That is what this lawsuit is about “unfair and illegal’ do you really think that Kodak is going to pay all that money if they were innocent – who would be the idiot then. Reparations I beleive you introduced that term – perhaps from some other argument that you lost. This all about EQUAL OPPORTUNITY for everybody even you. In the immortal words of that great american – James Brown I don’t want nobody to give me “Nothin” just open up the door and I will get myself!!! Stop speaking on some monlithic peaople that you don’t know and that don’t exist.
Hada, these employees WERE given an opportunity. They had the jobs and they’re complaining about the OUTCOME (pay, promotions, etc.). From the story, all we KNOW is that accusations were made and Kodak’s paying. Nothing more. And you wonder why people might hestitate to hire a woman or minority? Who needs the aggravation? We’re trying to run a business here, not a daycare center. Kodak didn’t take these people on to raise. They’re employees for Pete’s sake.
WOW – I guess we should be glad to just have a job. Discrimoinationn does not exist being passed over for a key project or promotion because the boss likes someone more than me is okay. Mind you they are not as well qualified as I am, they just look a lil different.This is NEVER okay black, white brown or yellow, women man, trangender or multi gender – NEVER OKAY!!! In the immortal words of Rodney King “can’t we all just get along” “Everyone Be Blessed” Have a wonderfule weekend and come back and sell insurance. I’m out!!!
Anyone who believes that this was settled only because the Kodak people were wrong is a bit naive. The chance of a huge decision and huge costs of this over years of wrangling probably had a lot to do with it. I don’t agree with those who feel this was completely unjustified, but settlement is not an admission of guilt. It’s a surrender to the reality of our jackpot justice system. Also, anyone who believes that any good was accomplished for any of these aggrieved individuals is completely off base. This type of suit serves the vague purpose of righting wrongs, but mainly is designed to pay the fuel costs for trial lawyers jets. I don’t know anyone in the insurance business who isn’t aware of cases settled when we knew we were right.
I agree with nobody important. Sometimes you just give up because you know that you cannot win because of a stacked deck. I have been passed over for some dingbat that I had to train, but it was because she knew somebody who knew somebody who was in charge. Getting the shaft has nothing to do with color or any of the other victimhood titles. Some days you get the elevator, some days you get the shaft. I learned to deal with it, you can too. Unless you have a lawyer and a voctim rights group.
How convenient it must be to live in a world where all of life’s wrongs are a result of something you can do nothing about (race/gender) and never YOUR responsibility. And please spare me the ridiculous words of Rodney King. He’s an alcoholic/drug addict with a criminal record as long as a arm (and a leg).
Actually the new minority are Caucasian Males. We should be claiming minority status in the courts!
As for not enough minorities in our industry, the industry has bent over backwards to make it better. I know of one case in Milwaukee where a company had to guarantee the courts that six black Americans would succeed in our business. Those agents didn’t have to work at all to make the agency grow cuz the company had to do it for them. I think I was discriminited against with that arrangement.
Its time to put this behind us. We elected a black president and most companies know that they should not discriminate. We shouldn’t either! Let’s get out and sell something!
Having worked as a clerk in a law office that handled EEOC litigation while I was college, yes… I do think Kodak is going to pay “all that money if they were innocent” and not because they’re “idiots”.
They’ll pay the settlement because there’s no way to defend… they’ll pay as much trying to defend themselves in court, probably get dragged through the mud when Farrakhan, Jackson, or some other loud-mouth gets himself on Larry King, then probably find a hostile jury or activist judge who’ll rule against them anyway.
You can’t defend against these kind of cases… the facts don’t matter, the rulings don’t either, just the allegation. I believe you referenced Rodney King… what happened when a jury decided those cops didn’t violate his rights? Didn’t matter what the law said, everyone already knew what they believed.
Since you quoted Rodney King, I’ll quote Reginald Dennings, “Ouch”.
Right on, Passing Through. Having been on the receiving end (working in agency admin) of one of these allegations, the lesson I learned was that this is only of the few places in our justice system where the accused is presumed guilty until THEY prove themselves innocent.
And for the person who said, “Oh we should be grateful just to have the job,” my point is that the job is the OPPORTUNITY, the promotion is the OUTCOME.
I am tired of people misusing the term racism. It dilutes its important meaning. Quite often the term should be bigotry which in some cases is rooted in racism but not always.
Racism-a belief that race is the primary dterminant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a aprticular race.
Predjudice- An irrational attitutde of hostillity directed against an individual, group of people or race or their supposed characteristics.
Bigot – one who is intolerantly devoted to to his own opinions or predgudices.
Judge Sotomayors comment about laitina women can make better decision than a white judge. This is racism.
Kodak alledgedly discriminating against blacks, is prejudice that may be rooted in racism or bigotry but we don’t have those facts from the article.
Never said that WE talk that way in the present day, quite the contrary. My reference was to the old slave mentality (way of talking) of having to appease by PRETENDING to be ignorant.
I doubt it N.I. The atty’s are the ones that get compensated in a big way. sorry but these suits are absolutely bogus. the allegations are, typically, false and made up by someone with a chip on their shoulder and the companies can’t defend the bogus claims. sorry but to call Kodak a racist company because someone may or may not have written “racist” graffiti on the bathroom wall just reeks of laziness and entitlement.
Yes you are correct. I let my frustration get the better of me. I just get tired of people throwing words around and diminishing their meaning so we never know what anyone is saying.
My sincere apologies to all offended. It was in poor form.
Kodak will never change their racist strategic practices. Don’t blame the minorities for shouting ‘foul’ the rule book for the game was burned by Management.
It’s about time this company got what it deserves. that’s why it’s going out of business. This has been going on for over 100 hundred yrs if you read your history about george Eastman He discriminated against Female White. yes I said White women.
I am curious to see if the actual employees got more in the settlement than a gift card for a big mac.
that is after what the lawyers get first!
What a racist deal and a broad brush to paint with.
Soooooooo racism does not exist? Or is it that it just be ignored? There should be punishment for crimes right??? If I agree via settlement that I have been discriminatory in my employemnt practices should I just get a pass?? Do you know how many lives have been ruined because of racially biased actions – missed promotions, no raise or just not given the SAME opportunity???
If you would focus on the present opportunities that you have and capitalize on them, rather than remain a perpetual victim, you stand a much better chance of getting ahead.
If you have few skills and an entitlement mentality, that is your own fault. You can change those circumstances, but you have to want to do so. It does not sound like you do, so you will always be in bondage.
No one owes you anything.
Oh contrare mon ami!!! That would be I believe $21.4M dollars that are due and payable now. Yeah that BS about pulling neself up by your bootstraps – well you find that after pulling yourself up someone that knows someone that knows someone received an oportunity that was never availble to someone of a draker or diffrent hue. But I guess that is fair huh? Just so long as others reap the privileges of their ancestry there will always be lawsuits that will result in payment due to ignorant and racist behavior. Nobody I know is asking for a handout just an opportunity – what do you know other than what you probably have read or seen on the telly.
Cowdogs – whew you are very close to discrimination with your statement.
Do you know how many African-American professional have to work twice as hard to get half as far as their counterparts? I have even seen some African-Americans train their co-workers just so the co-worker can get ahead and get the promotion that the African-American has worked so hard for.
I guess you would be satisfied if they just sit back, shuffle their feet and said “thank ya for my paycheck, sur”. Yea, mam, I’s greatful, righty where I is.
As I said, victim mentality.
If you have such strengths, capitalize on them. Start a business. Offer a service. Don’t spend you time calculating how much you subjectively thought you were worth. The only objective measure of that is the free marketplace.
As I said, victim mentality.
People now expect equality of outcome and are not satisfied with equality of opportunity. When I stopped seeing myself as a victim, I was able to position myself in the industry to maximize my talents and support my goals. Anyone can…….. If you stay in a place that exploits your talents and ignores your goals, you’re not a victim. You’re an idiot!
Thank you
Brokette
You have hit the proverbial nail on the head “the equality of opportunity” does not ALWAYS existHow else can you explain individuals with very similar educational backgrounds and training be provided different opportunities??? Look around our industry exactly how many non majority folks do you run across??? The field is not level opportunities are not the same the same work does not always result in the same opportuniites in the real world and thats why there are these lawsuits and again I say tehy will continue until things earnestly CHANGE.
So I should upset myself that there aren’t an equal number of caucasians in the “rap community”. Puh-leez!
Is it racism to believe that one should move forward on abilities and skills, rather than skin color? Agreed, perhaps in the past white people benefited from that sort of “racism”, but there has been a turn-about that recognizes that as unfair and illegal.
The reparations claimant seems to think that he/she is entitled to such reparations, on a mass basis, predicated upon what happened generations ago. If he/she has experienced it in the here and now, in violation of then-existing law, she has a remedy at law. If she can prove the violation, and quantify damages, more power to her.
That said, in this forum he/she has portrayed him/herself as a victim and a whiner. If he/she does the same in the workplace, one can understand why he/she does not get ahead.
The company by the mere fact that they are paying out millions are admitting that their internal practices were wrong. If you read the article closely you will see that not only did this affect people of color, but women as well.
I disagree with the assertion that just because a person is black, or a woman or whatever they should get paid merely based on that fact. But on the flip side of that if people are being discriminated against and denied promotions and pay raises based on their color and/or gender alone (not their abilities) it is plain wrong, and the company should have to pay!
The bottom line is that smart organizations promote and mentor their best talent. Stupid companies may engage in all types of discrimination but they only hurt themselves by refusing to utilize their “best and brightest”. Books were published in the 1970’s about the phenomenon as women began to enter the workforce in large numbers and prove their mettle. No longer were they disqualified by the “pregnancy excuse”. Xerox and IBM learned very quickly that their competitors would outpace them if they didn’t join the party and hire productive women. If you won’t let me rise in your organization, I will take a job with your competitor and do my level-best to see you fail. And, BTW, enjoy every minute of it. And THAT’S how it’s done.
Brokette
You should be very upset only if it is like Kodak who settled $21.4MM lawsuit because they were accused of “discriminatory practices in pay and promotions”. If DeathRow Records refused to sign a caucasian or better yet signed them and then did not pay them equitably then I would say you have a case – CALL ME. Once again we cannot talk apples to apples, nobody is asking for a set number of jobs just OPPORTUNITY to ply one’s trade.
here’s the problem:
1) you are not a african-american. you are an american and have been so for your entire life. i am tired of folks using a phrase that does not fit. we are a melting pot. i could be a german-american because i was born in germany to a GI and a german lady. but i believe in being an american and hold only one citizenship.
2) if you keep using these kind of phrases, everyone is going to play the race card. afterall, if you looked recently of the firefighters in NY (i think that is correct), where it was the white folks got the courts to agree they were discriminated against.
what happened to finally stop this you are better than me just because? not just on skill and actions? when are we going to finally realize as a country, we are all one! currently the congress is trying to help by passing a health care plan that can help everyone not a particular group of folks. when we go to war, do you think our military folks look at color to determine what you can do? did we not have a Chairman JCS that was not white? military believes on your ability to do the job and do it well. i sitting next to you and we both need each other. some of us repair aircraft or rig a chute. others provide maintenance or fly a jet. it does not matter if man or woman, they both get paid the same for the same job and rank. when will that be looked at on the civilian side? how many companies large and small will finally realize, it is the competence of the person doing the job.
AMERICA – melting pot. courage of all to stand together, why does it have to only be because of a disaster? let’s bring it together and stop this hatred.
Cowdogs:
That is what this lawsuit is about “unfair and illegal’ do you really think that Kodak is going to pay all that money if they were innocent – who would be the idiot then. Reparations I beleive you introduced that term – perhaps from some other argument that you lost. This all about EQUAL OPPORTUNITY for everybody even you. In the immortal words of that great american – James Brown I don’t want nobody to give me “Nothin” just open up the door and I will get myself!!! Stop speaking on some monlithic peaople that you don’t know and that don’t exist.
Hada, these employees WERE given an opportunity. They had the jobs and they’re complaining about the OUTCOME (pay, promotions, etc.). From the story, all we KNOW is that accusations were made and Kodak’s paying. Nothing more. And you wonder why people might hestitate to hire a woman or minority? Who needs the aggravation? We’re trying to run a business here, not a daycare center. Kodak didn’t take these people on to raise. They’re employees for Pete’s sake.
To: Disgusted
Amen and Amen!!!
WOW – I guess we should be glad to just have a job. Discrimoinationn does not exist being passed over for a key project or promotion because the boss likes someone more than me is okay. Mind you they are not as well qualified as I am, they just look a lil different.This is NEVER okay black, white brown or yellow, women man, trangender or multi gender – NEVER OKAY!!! In the immortal words of Rodney King “can’t we all just get along” “Everyone Be Blessed” Have a wonderfule weekend and come back and sell insurance. I’m out!!!
Anyone who believes that this was settled only because the Kodak people were wrong is a bit naive. The chance of a huge decision and huge costs of this over years of wrangling probably had a lot to do with it. I don’t agree with those who feel this was completely unjustified, but settlement is not an admission of guilt. It’s a surrender to the reality of our jackpot justice system. Also, anyone who believes that any good was accomplished for any of these aggrieved individuals is completely off base. This type of suit serves the vague purpose of righting wrongs, but mainly is designed to pay the fuel costs for trial lawyers jets. I don’t know anyone in the insurance business who isn’t aware of cases settled when we knew we were right.
I agree with nobody important. Sometimes you just give up because you know that you cannot win because of a stacked deck. I have been passed over for some dingbat that I had to train, but it was because she knew somebody who knew somebody who was in charge. Getting the shaft has nothing to do with color or any of the other victimhood titles. Some days you get the elevator, some days you get the shaft. I learned to deal with it, you can too. Unless you have a lawyer and a voctim rights group.
How convenient it must be to live in a world where all of life’s wrongs are a result of something you can do nothing about (race/gender) and never YOUR responsibility. And please spare me the ridiculous words of Rodney King. He’s an alcoholic/drug addict with a criminal record as long as a arm (and a leg).
might as well give some money to the gays and tranni’s….
Actually the new minority are Caucasian Males. We should be claiming minority status in the courts!
As for not enough minorities in our industry, the industry has bent over backwards to make it better. I know of one case in Milwaukee where a company had to guarantee the courts that six black Americans would succeed in our business. Those agents didn’t have to work at all to make the agency grow cuz the company had to do it for them. I think I was discriminited against with that arrangement.
Its time to put this behind us. We elected a black president and most companies know that they should not discriminate. We shouldn’t either! Let’s get out and sell something!
Having worked as a clerk in a law office that handled EEOC litigation while I was college, yes… I do think Kodak is going to pay “all that money if they were innocent” and not because they’re “idiots”.
They’ll pay the settlement because there’s no way to defend… they’ll pay as much trying to defend themselves in court, probably get dragged through the mud when Farrakhan, Jackson, or some other loud-mouth gets himself on Larry King, then probably find a hostile jury or activist judge who’ll rule against them anyway.
You can’t defend against these kind of cases… the facts don’t matter, the rulings don’t either, just the allegation. I believe you referenced Rodney King… what happened when a jury decided those cops didn’t violate his rights? Didn’t matter what the law said, everyone already knew what they believed.
Since you quoted Rodney King, I’ll quote Reginald Dennings, “Ouch”.
I think it’s sad that you believe black people talk that way. How racist of you.
Right on, Passing Through. Having been on the receiving end (working in agency admin) of one of these allegations, the lesson I learned was that this is only of the few places in our justice system where the accused is presumed guilty until THEY prove themselves innocent.
And for the person who said, “Oh we should be grateful just to have the job,” my point is that the job is the OPPORTUNITY, the promotion is the OUTCOME.
I am tired of people misusing the term racism. It dilutes its important meaning. Quite often the term should be bigotry which in some cases is rooted in racism but not always.
Racism-a belief that race is the primary dterminant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a aprticular race.
Predjudice- An irrational attitutde of hostillity directed against an individual, group of people or race or their supposed characteristics.
Bigot – one who is intolerantly devoted to to his own opinions or predgudices.
Judge Sotomayors comment about laitina women can make better decision than a white judge. This is racism.
Kodak alledgedly discriminating against blacks, is prejudice that may be rooted in racism or bigotry but we don’t have those facts from the article.
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
If you’re going to argue semantics you should have found a different word for your title line.
An illiterate person would not benefit from your post since he/she would not be able to read or comprehend your definitions.
A better heading might have been “For the uniformed…” or “Clarification of Language”.
Never said that WE talk that way in the present day, quite the contrary. My reference was to the old slave mentality (way of talking) of having to appease by PRETENDING to be ignorant.
I doubt it N.I. The atty’s are the ones that get compensated in a big way. sorry but these suits are absolutely bogus. the allegations are, typically, false and made up by someone with a chip on their shoulder and the companies can’t defend the bogus claims. sorry but to call Kodak a racist company because someone may or may not have written “racist” graffiti on the bathroom wall just reeks of laziness and entitlement.
Yes you are correct. I let my frustration get the better of me. I just get tired of people throwing words around and diminishing their meaning so we never know what anyone is saying.
My sincere apologies to all offended. It was in poor form.
Kodak will never change their racist strategic practices. Don’t blame the minorities for shouting ‘foul’ the rule book for the game was burned by Management.
It’s about time this company got what it deserves. that’s why it’s going out of business. This has been going on for over 100 hundred yrs if you read your history about george Eastman He discriminated against Female White. yes I said White women.