C’mon Saul. You probably would not last a week as Baxtor says. Maybe you should go out & get some pepper spray so you can zap…oh yeah, a cop. Just ’cause it’s going to trial doesn’t mean it will be successful. And, no, I don’t hope they collect.
That is why we have all of the frivolous lawsuits today. We have a class of citizens call lawyers that will take any type of case and then sue. Most know that most will settle before trial to avoid the cost.
The county and sheriff’s department and their insurance carrier should fight this suit tooth and nail, all the way to the supreme court if necessary.
Apparently the punk was told to show his hands. He did not. The officer did not know what he was concealing. Tazed.
That is like the officer in Virginia on 77 stopping a speeder. The passenger had his hand in a bag of chips. The officer heard a familiar sound and drew, without shooting before the passenger could react. Further detail was that a dead body was in the back, both the driver and passenger was in on it. If the officer had not responded, he may be dead now.
What is it with these punks and criminals, especially the kids today. Do they have a death wish? They have no respect for anyone, even themselves. When I was growing up, say no to an adult or an authority figure, get your mouth busted. Yeah, it happened a couple of times. That’s it, a couple of times. Run from a cop, get shot in the ***. That did not happen to me. More respect for authority than wanting that to happen.
Not saying that the punk got what he deserved, but look at the overall picture. He was probably a smart ***, been all along, told himself to “eF” the cop, he was not doing it, resisted and got blasted. Tuff!
Now the parents wants to blame someone else for their own failures.
“A grand jury ruled last year that Cpl. Rudy Torres was justified in using his Taser twice to subdue Gray in November 2007 after Gray did not obey commands to show his hands. Gray died hours later.”
Keyword being JUSTIFIED. Guess that doesn’t count for much. Another case of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. At least the criminal has been removed from society.
last time i checked a tazer wasnt supposed to kill a person.. obviously the cop used it excessively.. if the victim was such a criminal and so outta line then why was a tazer used an not a gun?? oh wait i forgot… the cops can never do wrong with you john wayne old timers.. get with the times.. absolute power corrupts absolutely.. an it’s more evident with these big headed cops then ever…
Here is some information from a news article dated 11/21/2007:
“…Sheriff Chuck Jenkins says his deputies are trained to use Tasers only when they feel threatened. He admits as of now, the deputy involved has not been interviewed or questioned about the incident, but investigators confirm the deputy fired two shocks exactly 23 seconds apart.
“He was in the dark, 5 in the morning. He came up on a fight, three people involved. Apparently he felt he needed to use this level of force to control the situation,” said Sheriff Chuck Jenkins.
Gray is the sixth Marylander to die from a Taser this year and the second person in Frederick County to be tased in five weeks. Family members say he was deaf in one ear and may not have heard the officer’s commands.”
I do not know the whole story, but sometimes we make assumptions about a person based on these articles. How do we know he was a “criminal?” Just because the officer was “justified”, it does not mean he used proper judgment in using that type of force.
The man who was tazed may have been breaking up the fight and was in the wrong place, at the wrong time and the wrong skin color. Maybe he was the one causing the fight. Who knows.
I just wrote to say that people should not always jump to conclusions.
Yes, and the jury ruled that the Los Angeles police department was justified in their attack on Rodney King. And in how many other cases have we seen the same thing.
By the way, everyone is calling the victim a criminal. Exactly what crime was he ever charged with much less convicted of? Or do we just let the police kill people without criminal charges and then blame it on the victim who didn’t react quickly enough to an order?
Anyone here ever bothered to peruse the constitution?
You can’t assume that the taser was used excessively simply because someone died. There are plenty of reasons why a taser can accidentally kill someone, such as the victim’s physical condition / hidden ailments.
The fact that someone is dead does not automatically imply that the cop was a power-tripping thug. Sometimes accidents DO happen.
yeah an people see ufo’s sometimes too.. it could of been an accident.. but your tellin me this cop may not have been trained properly in the use of a tazer? how bout we jus train monkeys to learn karate, give one to every cop, and then when the monkeys accidently kill people with karate chops,or criminals accidently kill monkeys with poisoned banannas it will just be a push…
who hunts for flies anyway? an i’d probably jus use some flypaper, using honey is a waste of an excellent tea ingredient an who could afford to be wasteful in this economy.. an baxtor.. why would a cop call the cops? wouldnt that jus be back up? seems like one of my dangers right now is being tazered by what? oh yeah.. a cop.. stop worrying.. no wonder your in insurance.. your countin on things goin wrong
I’m with you Baxter; I have had my share of encounters with the police and know full well that when an officer stops me that I give him my undivided attention. You have to respect authority and act properly, even if you think you are in the right. Challenging a police officer can only lead to more confusion. Maybe the guy does have bad hearing but if you were in that situation, you’ve gotta be aware of your position and know that this is NOT the time to question anyone or act contrarily. I was arrested once unfaily and without cause as far as I was concerend but I complied with the officer’s commands instead of challenging him; I did not bother to dispute when it happened because I knew it was not the place to do so. When it all played out in court, the charges were dropped. If you put yourself in the officer’s place, you would know that he is prepared for any use of force and that is unfortunate because it was not always like that. There was no need for a taser when I was younger because there were fewer “wise” guys on the streets but that’s all changed now. Either the guy underestimated his position and it went against him or, he was really just made a mistake at best; he put himself in that position; he played the hand he was dealt and got what he should have expected…
The last time I was pulled over on the interstate, it was “yes, officer” and “no, officer”. This guy had a MAJOR powertrip going on, but I was polite and respectful. After my lecture I was told to drive safe and we both went our separate ways. The fact that I wasn’t given a ticket leads me to believe two things.
1.) I didn’t do anything wrong (other than cross a big ego, ie, wrong place, wrong time).
2.) In this situation (and those similar to it) it pays to play nice.
So I swallowed my pride and took a verbal thrashing from someone who felt the need to be a “tough guy”. So what?!?!?! No ticket, no fine, no foul.
Regardless of being in the wrong, if you aren’t smart enough to know that you don’t F with cops, you pay the consequences. There are good cops and there are bad cops, just like there are good insurance agents and bad insurance agents. You have to understand that when someone else is in a position of power, like it or not, you have to play by their rules.
Let’s say, for arguments sake, the cop was excessive in his use of the tazer and this kis was a victim. I’m ashamed of the $145MM…because I find it unlikely that he would be willing to make that much money in his lifetime. That’s what bothers me the most.
My sense is that many police departments and officers are too quick to use their tasers because of their belief that they are non-lethal. They also use them punitively instead of defensively which seems inappropriate.
I have seen enough news stories about taser induced deaths to have the opinion that they are often but not exclusively non-lethal.
I have seen stories about officers tasing people who were already restrained, officers pulling people out of cars and tasing them for things like not getting license/insurance out quickly enough, etc. I’ve seen stories about police tasing mentally handicapped people, tasing young children, and tasing the elderly.
Tasers are supposed to be a last line of defense before using lethal force. Unfortunately they seem to frequently be used to enforce compliance or more accurately to punish non-compliance.
These stories you speak of make headlines because they help sell newspapers and crank up ratings. What you don’t hear are the stories where tasers were used very succesfully and lives were saved because of them. I am willing to bet that happens more often than the former.
saul, the criminal apologist. tasers typically kill people that are under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol which is most likely the case with this criminal. police have no obligation to inquire if the criminal is under said influence before tasing them. if they don’t want to be tased and/or die, then they should have obeyed the officer in the first place. don’t forget that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Just how many headlines do we see about the ridiculous awards, not to mention the suits filed for such ridiculous amounts, compared to the actual number of suits, trials and judgements that take place every day. Kind of skews the picture, doesn’t it?
taser toting cops are just a bunch of posers. they know tasers kill and continue to use them. they don’t put their lives on the line, they put your’s and mine on the line. who needs police after all, they will kill you.
Mato, I hope you were just being sarcastic. If not, your disrepect for police really shows. Todays norm seems to be “it’s always somebody elses fault” and a lot of people do not take responsibility for thier own actions. Instead they blame others (police etc)for imagined wrongs. If perps would do as the police direct them to do respecfully, there would be no reason for the use of tasers. Ever think of that?
Actually, what needs to happen to Mato is that a perp is threatening to harm his family and he does get a chance to call the “killers” as he calls them. Upon being connected, and he tells them who he is, they repsond, “Oh, we are killers! Handle it your own damn self!”
C’mon Saul. You probably would not last a week as Baxtor says. Maybe you should go out & get some pepper spray so you can zap…oh yeah, a cop. Just ’cause it’s going to trial doesn’t mean it will be successful. And, no, I don’t hope they collect.
the family deserves nothing. lets reward a criminal
The judicial cowardice, short-sightedness and flat out ignorance of civil judges never ceases to amaze me.
Ya, good. Lets reward criminal behavior at taxpayers expense.
That is why we have all of the frivolous lawsuits today. We have a class of citizens call lawyers that will take any type of case and then sue. Most know that most will settle before trial to avoid the cost.
The county and sheriff’s department and their insurance carrier should fight this suit tooth and nail, all the way to the supreme court if necessary.
Apparently the punk was told to show his hands. He did not. The officer did not know what he was concealing. Tazed.
That is like the officer in Virginia on 77 stopping a speeder. The passenger had his hand in a bag of chips. The officer heard a familiar sound and drew, without shooting before the passenger could react. Further detail was that a dead body was in the back, both the driver and passenger was in on it. If the officer had not responded, he may be dead now.
What is it with these punks and criminals, especially the kids today. Do they have a death wish? They have no respect for anyone, even themselves. When I was growing up, say no to an adult or an authority figure, get your mouth busted. Yeah, it happened a couple of times. That’s it, a couple of times. Run from a cop, get shot in the ***. That did not happen to me. More respect for authority than wanting that to happen.
Not saying that the punk got what he deserved, but look at the overall picture. He was probably a smart ***, been all along, told himself to “eF” the cop, he was not doing it, resisted and got blasted. Tuff!
Now the parents wants to blame someone else for their own failures.
“A grand jury ruled last year that Cpl. Rudy Torres was justified in using his Taser twice to subdue Gray in November 2007 after Gray did not obey commands to show his hands. Gray died hours later.”
Keyword being JUSTIFIED. Guess that doesn’t count for much. Another case of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. At least the criminal has been removed from society.
That was my point, what part of JUSTIFIED does this brainless twit of a judge not understand.
last time i checked a tazer wasnt supposed to kill a person.. obviously the cop used it excessively.. if the victim was such a criminal and so outta line then why was a tazer used an not a gun?? oh wait i forgot… the cops can never do wrong with you john wayne old timers.. get with the times.. absolute power corrupts absolutely.. an it’s more evident with these big headed cops then ever…
Here is some information from a news article dated 11/21/2007:
“…Sheriff Chuck Jenkins says his deputies are trained to use Tasers only when they feel threatened. He admits as of now, the deputy involved has not been interviewed or questioned about the incident, but investigators confirm the deputy fired two shocks exactly 23 seconds apart.
“He was in the dark, 5 in the morning. He came up on a fight, three people involved. Apparently he felt he needed to use this level of force to control the situation,” said Sheriff Chuck Jenkins.
Gray is the sixth Marylander to die from a Taser this year and the second person in Frederick County to be tased in five weeks. Family members say he was deaf in one ear and may not have heard the officer’s commands.”
I do not know the whole story, but sometimes we make assumptions about a person based on these articles. How do we know he was a “criminal?” Just because the officer was “justified”, it does not mean he used proper judgment in using that type of force.
The man who was tazed may have been breaking up the fight and was in the wrong place, at the wrong time and the wrong skin color. Maybe he was the one causing the fight. Who knows.
I just wrote to say that people should not always jump to conclusions.
Yes, and the jury ruled that the Los Angeles police department was justified in their attack on Rodney King. And in how many other cases have we seen the same thing.
By the way, everyone is calling the victim a criminal. Exactly what crime was he ever charged with much less convicted of? Or do we just let the police kill people without criminal charges and then blame it on the victim who didn’t react quickly enough to an order?
Anyone here ever bothered to peruse the constitution?
You can’t assume that the taser was used excessively simply because someone died. There are plenty of reasons why a taser can accidentally kill someone, such as the victim’s physical condition / hidden ailments.
The fact that someone is dead does not automatically imply that the cop was a power-tripping thug. Sometimes accidents DO happen.
yeah an people see ufo’s sometimes too.. it could of been an accident.. but your tellin me this cop may not have been trained properly in the use of a tazer? how bout we jus train monkeys to learn karate, give one to every cop, and then when the monkeys accidently kill people with karate chops,or criminals accidently kill monkeys with poisoned banannas it will just be a push…
Apparently you didn’t read my post. I said that the accident very likely had nothing to do with the police officer’s level of training.
As for the monkeys… uh, thanks for the input.
For the ones on here that are blaming the COP. Two things for you spineless excuses for a human being.
1) Let’s see you be an officer for a week. You’ll probably shoot more people then any other officer just because you don’t want to die.
2) You’re probably the first person to call the cops when something isn’t going your way.
Come on people, get into the 21st century. It’s dangerous out there and if you want to live, then respect a police officer.
Saul – you might catch more flies with honey than vinegar….a positive approach to your problem would give you more credence.
who hunts for flies anyway? an i’d probably jus use some flypaper, using honey is a waste of an excellent tea ingredient an who could afford to be wasteful in this economy.. an baxtor.. why would a cop call the cops? wouldnt that jus be back up? seems like one of my dangers right now is being tazered by what? oh yeah.. a cop.. stop worrying.. no wonder your in insurance.. your countin on things goin wrong
I’m with you Baxter; I have had my share of encounters with the police and know full well that when an officer stops me that I give him my undivided attention. You have to respect authority and act properly, even if you think you are in the right. Challenging a police officer can only lead to more confusion. Maybe the guy does have bad hearing but if you were in that situation, you’ve gotta be aware of your position and know that this is NOT the time to question anyone or act contrarily. I was arrested once unfaily and without cause as far as I was concerend but I complied with the officer’s commands instead of challenging him; I did not bother to dispute when it happened because I knew it was not the place to do so. When it all played out in court, the charges were dropped. If you put yourself in the officer’s place, you would know that he is prepared for any use of force and that is unfortunate because it was not always like that. There was no need for a taser when I was younger because there were fewer “wise” guys on the streets but that’s all changed now. Either the guy underestimated his position and it went against him or, he was really just made a mistake at best; he put himself in that position; he played the hand he was dealt and got what he should have expected…
The last time I was pulled over on the interstate, it was “yes, officer” and “no, officer”. This guy had a MAJOR powertrip going on, but I was polite and respectful. After my lecture I was told to drive safe and we both went our separate ways. The fact that I wasn’t given a ticket leads me to believe two things.
1.) I didn’t do anything wrong (other than cross a big ego, ie, wrong place, wrong time).
2.) In this situation (and those similar to it) it pays to play nice.
So I swallowed my pride and took a verbal thrashing from someone who felt the need to be a “tough guy”. So what?!?!?! No ticket, no fine, no foul.
Regardless of being in the wrong, if you aren’t smart enough to know that you don’t F with cops, you pay the consequences. There are good cops and there are bad cops, just like there are good insurance agents and bad insurance agents. You have to understand that when someone else is in a position of power, like it or not, you have to play by their rules.
Respectful, as in how you demonstrate your tact in your comments?
Mark, I suspect you aren’t standing next to him with a gun, taser and billy club. Your email postings are slightly less intimidating.
Let’s say, for arguments sake, the cop was excessive in his use of the tazer and this kis was a victim. I’m ashamed of the $145MM…because I find it unlikely that he would be willing to make that much money in his lifetime. That’s what bothers me the most.
My sense is that many police departments and officers are too quick to use their tasers because of their belief that they are non-lethal. They also use them punitively instead of defensively which seems inappropriate.
I have seen enough news stories about taser induced deaths to have the opinion that they are often but not exclusively non-lethal.
I have seen stories about officers tasing people who were already restrained, officers pulling people out of cars and tasing them for things like not getting license/insurance out quickly enough, etc. I’ve seen stories about police tasing mentally handicapped people, tasing young children, and tasing the elderly.
Tasers are supposed to be a last line of defense before using lethal force. Unfortunately they seem to frequently be used to enforce compliance or more accurately to punish non-compliance.
These stories you speak of make headlines because they help sell newspapers and crank up ratings. What you don’t hear are the stories where tasers were used very succesfully and lives were saved because of them. I am willing to bet that happens more often than the former.
saul, the criminal apologist. tasers typically kill people that are under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol which is most likely the case with this criminal. police have no obligation to inquire if the criminal is under said influence before tasing them. if they don’t want to be tased and/or die, then they should have obeyed the officer in the first place. don’t forget that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Just how many headlines do we see about the ridiculous awards, not to mention the suits filed for such ridiculous amounts, compared to the actual number of suits, trials and judgements that take place every day. Kind of skews the picture, doesn’t it?
taser toting cops are just a bunch of posers. they know tasers kill and continue to use them. they don’t put their lives on the line, they put your’s and mine on the line. who needs police after all, they will kill you.
Mato, I hope you were just being sarcastic. If not, your disrepect for police really shows. Todays norm seems to be “it’s always somebody elses fault” and a lot of people do not take responsibility for thier own actions. Instead they blame others (police etc)for imagined wrongs. If perps would do as the police direct them to do respecfully, there would be no reason for the use of tasers. Ever think of that?
I hope you get tasered repeatedly at some point in your life.
Actually, what needs to happen to Mato is that a perp is threatening to harm his family and he does get a chance to call the “killers” as he calls them. Upon being connected, and he tells them who he is, they repsond, “Oh, we are killers! Handle it your own damn self!”