Another absurd rendering by the NJ courts. It’s time to start holding individuals accountable for their own poor judgment and social irresponsibility and not allowing them to profit from it.
Hopefully there is no law to prevent the bar from suing the distilleries and breweries that they buy their liquor from. After all they too should know that the bar will be serving people who don’t know when to say when.
It’s a shame that people cannot take responsibility for their own actions and have to sue an establishment because they have no self control. It’s like blaming your addiction on someone else. I think this suit will be huge if it is allowed.
Seriously? Now we are expected to monitor people and determine when they have reached some subjective unacceptable intoxication level? Perhaps bars should install breathalyzers and once you reach just under the legal limit, they call you a cab and have the bouncers place you in the cab.
this is so stupid. at some point in time we have to account for our own actions. bars should invest in breathalizers or make the patrons sign waivers. this just opens up to more lawsuits.
I’m gonna take some heat for this one, but… Since we are on the topic of personal accountability, isn’t the bartender supposed to stop serving people when they believe an individual is drunk? I’m not saying the bartender is completely at fault here, but they should bear some of the responsibility. Doesn’t the bartender have some level of personal accountability to do their job properly and stop serving people when they have had too much to drink? I know this could mean loss of tips, but when I go to a bar to have a few drinks, I put my safety in the hands of the bartender to tell me I have had enough (when I am not thinking rationally).
no Hank, have to disagree with you. People have to be responsible for themselves. Its a shame someone always has to blame someone else for their horrible actions.
Unless the customer shows obvious outward signs of intoxication, or has been served an “excessive” amount (and I’m not sure who determines how much that is) then I don’t know how the bartender or server would have any level of personal accountability for this customers actions. I’d rather see them tell customers that they can’t have fries with that because you’re too fat.
I took part in a demonstration in college as part of Drug and Alcohol awareness month. A small group volunteered to consume alcohol (under the supervision of Mass. State Police)and perform a field sobriety test and the breathalizer. (What college kid would turn down free alcohol right?)
Guess what: At the end of the demo I couldn’t preform a field sobriety test worth a darn, but I blew below the legal limit. Meanwhile my friend performed the field sobriety test flawlessly and blew twice the legal limit.
So how is a bartender supposed to judge when a customer has had enough?
Hank – the customer would then just sue the bartender for some sort of discrimination (race, religion, gender, etc.) if he or she were told they had too much to drink and would no longer be served…
Not surprising–any knumbskull can sue anybody for any reason because, after all, this is America, land of the free and home of the litigeous. What is unfortunate in this instance is the actions of the numbskulls in the black robes–disappointing, but not necesarily surprising. What kind of lawyer would take something like this on a contigent–
Hank, “the heat is on”. This was a restaurant. So know each waitress is going to have to recognize intoxication for soberness. At a particular moment that is a fine line (shortly afterword the intoxication is more obvious) so she/he will have to be carrying a breathalizer to test patrons. Personal responsibility.
I still stick with personal accountability. It is against the law to drink & drive, whether it 1 or 10 drinks. Bartenders are there to sell drinks, nothing else. He pled guilty, but now he wants to sue the bar for what, holding him down at gunpoint & making him drink. Sorry, throw it out on appeal.
Actually, it’s not against the law to drink and drive. It is against the law to operate a motor vehicle when your BAC is .08 or greater (in most states), unless you have a CDL, in which case the threshold is lower.
I don’t think some of the posters actually read the article. But yeah . . . personal responsibility. The bartender shouldn’t be expected to stop serving someone at .08. I got cut off at a brewpub once on my second or third beer, because the last one was a 6oz glass around 8% abv. Ticked me off even more since I only lived a block away so driving wasn’t an issue.
Does not make a dang bet of diff if you are driving or walking, riding a bike or a horseback. If a bar-keep thinks you have had enough then that is it…
If you are so drunk as to not be capable of taking care of yourself and consequently step off a curb and are hit by a bus the establishment that got you into that state bears some responsibility.
We might not like it (I don’t) but that is the law in most states!
Sorry, but I am an adult and deserve to be treated like an adult. If I get plastered and then get hit by a bus, its my own dang fault, not the beer company that brewed the ale I enjoy. If I drink too much and become intoxicated, it’s no one’s fault but my own, because i can make my own choices.
So Youngin’ how is the bartender supposed to know you live nearby? What if…you split your skull climbing into the taxi he called for you…fell off the curb at the intersection walking home… or down the stairs when you get there…or fall asleep with a cigarette in your mouth, burning down apt bldg killing all 100 residents…
Guy,
did you read my post? Let me reiterate it for you. “I’m not saying the bartender is completely at fault here, but they should bear some of the responsibility.”
A lot of people who go to restaurants and bars aren’t driving, so you risk alienating customers by checking all and holding them to a driving standard.
In NY, I now have to have the applicant sign a form acknowledging that they understand that the insurance company pays me a commission for selling insurance.
Maybe bartenders should have every patron sign a form acknowledging that there is alcohol in the beverages they serve and that the patron is aware that based on his/her body weight and rate of comsumption he/she could become legally intoxicated if too many alcoholic beverages are consumed in too short a period. Then the patron would need to stipulate to the number of drinks already consumed in the last six hours and initial and note the time for each drink served while in the restaurant. Then, just to be safe, the bouncer could be required to do a sobriety test on each patron as they exit the establishment and have the patron sign (again) to acknowledge the results.
Or, to quote Shakespeeare’s Henry VI, we could kill all the lawyers.
Think about how crazy it is to expect a bartender to be able to control a person’s drunkeness. Especially in a large tavern where there are multiple bartenders and servers and hundreds of patrons.
People need to be responsible, but as long as lawyers and judges rule that people don’t have to take responsibility for their actions, they will look to blame others.
Another perfect – but horrible – example of the combination of judicial activism and bleeding-heart liberalism which pervades
the NJ Suprenme Court, which, in so many situations, rules that someone other than the “injured” party must be responsible for the injury and damages. This ghuy was stoned and knew it, yet he goes out on his cycle – a dangerous vehilce to begin with – and hurts himself. Justices say someone must pay him money, and after all, it’s only an insurance company’s (yours and mine) money anyway.
For this patron’s BAC to be .196 means they probably drank the equivalency eight plus drinks, which raises a valid question of why they were served so much. No human can have so many drinks and still be legal to drive right?
There are those people out there that can drink and have a .196 and not look or act drunk at all. I know a couple of people that can drink all day and there is no way that you would ever be able to tell. Why should this be the bartenders responsibility? I can see stopping someone who is obviously drunk.
0.16 — 0.19 BAC: Dysphoria predominates, nausea may appear. The drinker has the appearance of a “sloppy drunk.”
0.20 BAC: Feeling dazed/confused or otherwise disoriented. May need help to stand/walk. If you injure yourself you may not feel the pain. Some people have nausea and vomiting at this level. The gag reflex is impaired and you can choke if you do vomit. Blackouts are likely at this level.
I’m going to have to take a perch on the fence on this one, I would imagine that you would have to see that this guy’s 3 sheets to the wind at this point.
If it was .10 – .15 close call, but .196? gotta see that one coming.
At what point does the establishment serving the drinks become just a bit on the responsible side? When the guy drops off his stool dead from ETOH poisoning?
many of you have the same argument and many of you agree. so let’s focus, they are right in that he can sue them for giving him more to drink but where does that stop? first of all, you can not always tell if someone is over the limit by sight, except for those that are staggering and hopefully you have already sighted that one and called him a cab you better had a witness placing him into the cab because he could get out and then fall and slip crack his head and then blame the tavern. second, are you then going to require a breathalyzer from the bar? NO! this is a costly device and will make those underground bars or homes places to go and this business will go belly up. this guy is going to have to prove to everyone that at what point was he over the limit? how much did he have to drink and how long was he there? when was his last drink? too many variables!! this is why it’s going to be hard to define why the bar is at-fault. this guy just wants money to cover his fines and fees because of his ignorance of his own personal responsibility. what’s to say he did not stop along the way and have another beer or such! i think the bar/restaurant is going to win.
Actually, I’m sure the suits against the Fast Food restaraunts for causing sudden coronaries when too many burgers are ordered at a time … will prevail …and gain traction. Hope no one (anywhere) dies as a result of such eating.
When will this litigation end? Lawyers make the laws, exempt themselves if elected from those same laws, (sexual harassment, etc. etc.) then enforce them by installing bleeding heart liberal wackos on the bench and venue shopping the joke of a case.
Who voted for the liberal wacko who NEVER had a private job in his life and is sending us federally down the drain?
Another absurd rendering by the NJ courts. It’s time to start holding individuals accountable for their own poor judgment and social irresponsibility and not allowing them to profit from it.
Hopefully there is no law to prevent the bar from suing the distilleries and breweries that they buy their liquor from. After all they too should know that the bar will be serving people who don’t know when to say when.
It’s a shame that people cannot take responsibility for their own actions and have to sue an establishment because they have no self control. It’s like blaming your addiction on someone else. I think this suit will be huge if it is allowed.
Seriously? Now we are expected to monitor people and determine when they have reached some subjective unacceptable intoxication level? Perhaps bars should install breathalyzers and once you reach just under the legal limit, they call you a cab and have the bouncers place you in the cab.
If the brings suit against the bar, he should be blacklisted from ever eating out again! Ever!
this is so stupid. at some point in time we have to account for our own actions. bars should invest in breathalizers or make the patrons sign waivers. this just opens up to more lawsuits.
I’m gonna take some heat for this one, but… Since we are on the topic of personal accountability, isn’t the bartender supposed to stop serving people when they believe an individual is drunk? I’m not saying the bartender is completely at fault here, but they should bear some of the responsibility. Doesn’t the bartender have some level of personal accountability to do their job properly and stop serving people when they have had too much to drink? I know this could mean loss of tips, but when I go to a bar to have a few drinks, I put my safety in the hands of the bartender to tell me I have had enough (when I am not thinking rationally).
Ok, now I’m ready to be slammed!
no Hank, have to disagree with you. People have to be responsible for themselves. Its a shame someone always has to blame someone else for their horrible actions.
Hank’s a good Democrat.
Unless the customer shows obvious outward signs of intoxication, or has been served an “excessive” amount (and I’m not sure who determines how much that is) then I don’t know how the bartender or server would have any level of personal accountability for this customers actions. I’d rather see them tell customers that they can’t have fries with that because you’re too fat.
I took part in a demonstration in college as part of Drug and Alcohol awareness month. A small group volunteered to consume alcohol (under the supervision of Mass. State Police)and perform a field sobriety test and the breathalizer. (What college kid would turn down free alcohol right?)
Guess what: At the end of the demo I couldn’t preform a field sobriety test worth a darn, but I blew below the legal limit. Meanwhile my friend performed the field sobriety test flawlessly and blew twice the legal limit.
So how is a bartender supposed to judge when a customer has had enough?
Hank – the customer would then just sue the bartender for some sort of discrimination (race, religion, gender, etc.) if he or she were told they had too much to drink and would no longer be served…
Not surprising–any knumbskull can sue anybody for any reason because, after all, this is America, land of the free and home of the litigeous. What is unfortunate in this instance is the actions of the numbskulls in the black robes–disappointing, but not necesarily surprising. What kind of lawyer would take something like this on a contigent–
Hank, “the heat is on”. This was a restaurant. So know each waitress is going to have to recognize intoxication for soberness. At a particular moment that is a fine line (shortly afterword the intoxication is more obvious) so she/he will have to be carrying a breathalizer to test patrons. Personal responsibility.
I still stick with personal accountability. It is against the law to drink & drive, whether it 1 or 10 drinks. Bartenders are there to sell drinks, nothing else. He pled guilty, but now he wants to sue the bar for what, holding him down at gunpoint & making him drink. Sorry, throw it out on appeal.
Actually, it’s not against the law to drink and drive. It is against the law to operate a motor vehicle when your BAC is .08 or greater (in most states), unless you have a CDL, in which case the threshold is lower.
I don’t think some of the posters actually read the article. But yeah . . . personal responsibility. The bartender shouldn’t be expected to stop serving someone at .08. I got cut off at a brewpub once on my second or third beer, because the last one was a 6oz glass around 8% abv. Ticked me off even more since I only lived a block away so driving wasn’t an issue.
Ever hear of “Drunk in public?”
Does not make a dang bet of diff if you are driving or walking, riding a bike or a horseback. If a bar-keep thinks you have had enough then that is it…
If you are so drunk as to not be capable of taking care of yourself and consequently step off a curb and are hit by a bus the establishment that got you into that state bears some responsibility.
We might not like it (I don’t) but that is the law in most states!
So bars need to be nanny’s then, huh?
Sorry, but I am an adult and deserve to be treated like an adult. If I get plastered and then get hit by a bus, its my own dang fault, not the beer company that brewed the ale I enjoy. If I drink too much and become intoxicated, it’s no one’s fault but my own, because i can make my own choices.
So Youngin’ how is the bartender supposed to know you live nearby? What if…you split your skull climbing into the taxi he called for you…fell off the curb at the intersection walking home… or down the stairs when you get there…or fall asleep with a cigarette in your mouth, burning down apt bldg killing all 100 residents…
All the bartenders’ fault, right Hank?
Guy,
did you read my post? Let me reiterate it for you. “I’m not saying the bartender is completely at fault here, but they should bear some of the responsibility.”
You shouldn’t go out drinking if you don’t have a plan to get home safely. If you can’t plan that far ahead, do all your drinking at home.
A lot of people who go to restaurants and bars aren’t driving, so you risk alienating customers by checking all and holding them to a driving standard.
In NY, I now have to have the applicant sign a form acknowledging that they understand that the insurance company pays me a commission for selling insurance.
Maybe bartenders should have every patron sign a form acknowledging that there is alcohol in the beverages they serve and that the patron is aware that based on his/her body weight and rate of comsumption he/she could become legally intoxicated if too many alcoholic beverages are consumed in too short a period. Then the patron would need to stipulate to the number of drinks already consumed in the last six hours and initial and note the time for each drink served while in the restaurant. Then, just to be safe, the bouncer could be required to do a sobriety test on each patron as they exit the establishment and have the patron sign (again) to acknowledge the results.
Or, to quote Shakespeeare’s Henry VI, we could kill all the lawyers.
Think about how crazy it is to expect a bartender to be able to control a person’s drunkeness. Especially in a large tavern where there are multiple bartenders and servers and hundreds of patrons.
People need to be responsible, but as long as lawyers and judges rule that people don’t have to take responsibility for their actions, they will look to blame others.
Another perfect – but horrible – example of the combination of judicial activism and bleeding-heart liberalism which pervades
the NJ Suprenme Court, which, in so many situations, rules that someone other than the “injured” party must be responsible for the injury and damages. This ghuy was stoned and knew it, yet he goes out on his cycle – a dangerous vehilce to begin with – and hurts himself. Justices say someone must pay him money, and after all, it’s only an insurance company’s (yours and mine) money anyway.
For this patron’s BAC to be .196 means they probably drank the equivalency eight plus drinks, which raises a valid question of why they were served so much. No human can have so many drinks and still be legal to drive right?
There are those people out there that can drink and have a .196 and not look or act drunk at all. I know a couple of people that can drink all day and there is no way that you would ever be able to tell. Why should this be the bartenders responsibility? I can see stopping someone who is obviously drunk.
0.16 — 0.19 BAC: Dysphoria predominates, nausea may appear. The drinker has the appearance of a “sloppy drunk.”
0.20 BAC: Feeling dazed/confused or otherwise disoriented. May need help to stand/walk. If you injure yourself you may not feel the pain. Some people have nausea and vomiting at this level. The gag reflex is impaired and you can choke if you do vomit. Blackouts are likely at this level.
I’m going to have to take a perch on the fence on this one, I would imagine that you would have to see that this guy’s 3 sheets to the wind at this point.
If it was .10 – .15 close call, but .196? gotta see that one coming.
At what point does the establishment serving the drinks become just a bit on the responsible side? When the guy drops off his stool dead from ETOH poisoning?
many of you have the same argument and many of you agree. so let’s focus, they are right in that he can sue them for giving him more to drink but where does that stop? first of all, you can not always tell if someone is over the limit by sight, except for those that are staggering and hopefully you have already sighted that one and called him a cab you better had a witness placing him into the cab because he could get out and then fall and slip crack his head and then blame the tavern. second, are you then going to require a breathalyzer from the bar? NO! this is a costly device and will make those underground bars or homes places to go and this business will go belly up. this guy is going to have to prove to everyone that at what point was he over the limit? how much did he have to drink and how long was he there? when was his last drink? too many variables!! this is why it’s going to be hard to define why the bar is at-fault. this guy just wants money to cover his fines and fees because of his ignorance of his own personal responsibility. what’s to say he did not stop along the way and have another beer or such! i think the bar/restaurant is going to win.
Hmmm. suing the bar when he chose to get drunk. Perhaps I should sue McDonalds for my gastric reduction. RIDICULOUS. Take responsibbility, victims!!
Actually, I’m sure the suits against the Fast Food restaraunts for causing sudden coronaries when too many burgers are ordered at a time … will prevail …and gain traction. Hope no one (anywhere) dies as a result of such eating.
When will this litigation end? Lawyers make the laws, exempt themselves if elected from those same laws, (sexual harassment, etc. etc.) then enforce them by installing bleeding heart liberal wackos on the bench and venue shopping the joke of a case.
Who voted for the liberal wacko who NEVER had a private job in his life and is sending us federally down the drain?
I surely did not.