This is all bull. The chiropracters run up a bill to $10,000 to $20,000, so the lawyers can show damages and sue.
When the insurance companies pay; the patient is Miraculously Cured!
Of course, no legit regular doctor would participate in this so they seek the Chiropracters cause they’re all sleaze. Hence everyones insurance sky rockets.
chiropractors got paid 33.70 per visit for the last decade, no one bills 10,000 to 20,000 in NY. Dave is a wrong. patients get better with real care, not with drugs. the new system is flawed.
are you out of your mind? This is not personal injury this is Workers Comp where injured workers do not sue unless their is gross previously reported negligence. This is a case in which the State has the mandate to cover permanently injured workers and are deviously trying to get out of the responsibility because they waste so much money on other garbage that they are bankrupt.
Dave you are ignorant of what NYS Worker’s Comp is, and its history. It is rather amazing to me that such an ill-informed comment could incur so many positive responses. I can only imagine that facts do not matter to these people, who then go and vote based on their fact-challenged opinions and is likely why such shoddy law such as MTG are passed.
NYSWC takes the place of lawsuits and can correctly be called the original tort reform, as it was designed to take lawsuits off the table. Under NYSWC you can not sue your employer, period.
Extensive Independent Medical Exams (IME) are carried out by “legitimate”, in Dave’s words, medical doctors who have no relationship to the patient (they can and do seem to have close ties to insurance companies though) and medical findings are presented to Judges. The judges are trained in NYSWC law and then adjudicate, or decide, based on the facts presented at hearings, the extent of the disability and it’s permanence as well as approved treatment plans in some instances.
It is quite clear, and I could cite my personal experiences, that the costs of treatment under these guidelines do go up as does the reliance on opiates, which BTW has become an epidemic problem in NY over the past year, and I posit it is directly caused by this law.
Chiro’s own standards agree with MTG’s. The legislation they introduced in Western NY indicated treatment prior to 2010 should be conducted one way, and differently after 2010. That is just not logical to me
Mr Silber is spreading misinformation.CA rising med costs are due to increased hospitalizattion, drug repackaging and compounding. There is no a whit of evidence that it had anything to do with the restrictions on chiro care.
Ask and provider if they get 2/3 of their variances approved. The beaurocrats who wrote these idiotic guidelines are lying out of their teeth. Another example of crooked government giving into to lobbies. Hopefully the tens of thousands of New Yorkers screwed by these politicians as well as their health providers will remember this on election days
With regards to the MG-2’s (variance request) being approved, the new paper work required only gives the insurance companies as many reasons to deny treatment as there are blanks to fill on the form. It is common practice to deny treatment based on typographical errors in the form that have no bearing on the substance of the request.
For example, transposing a digit in WCB number, or submitting a medical report in a different FAX transmission then the MG-2, even if only seconds apart or submitting the reports in separate FAX transmissions to the different insurers instead of in a “batch”.
Add to this the ever shifting interpretation of the guidelines by the state’s very own Medical Director’s Office. Example: In March of last year I was told that a variance (MG-2) was required to receive only 8 chiropractic treatments for an injury, by November that had shifted to four treatments over eight weeks for an “exacerbation” (magic word!) documented by an MD with a referral from that MD, and now, I am told no referral nor examination by an MD is required and chiropractors just need to file the C4 as they used to.
This has led to the issue in my small city in Western NY, of the primary billing company that bills WC for chiropractors to stop billing for WC forcing every one of the local chiropractors on the NYSWC Medical Director’s Office referral list to drop their WC patients.
Personally I was dropped by my Pain Management osteopath, then my physical therapist refused to treat with out a written guarantee from the insurers (will never happen as not paying at all is more common than actually paying), then I was dropped by my chiropractor with the explanation that their billing company refused to bill NYSWC. I found out through a phone call to the billing agent who let slip (likely unethically) that the good doctor had lost $100,000 over the past year and a half treating long time patients who’s bills were denied for the specious reasons I sighted above. He continued to treat his patients until it became a financial burden.
Garbage law and the simple fact is I could have recovered enough to go to work a year ago if the approved treatment plan had been adhered to by the insurers. As it is I have been left doped up on narcotics, if I am not careful, and unable to consistently do my home exercise program due to the lack of treatment. The insurance company now uses this “lack of compliance” in their denials, with no sense of the irony.
As an addendum, the lack of treatment that has resulted through this convoluted MTG law has actually put me into the federal Medicare & Social Security Disability program as my conditions have worsened. The kicker is that until “Obamacare” fully kicks in in 2014, I can not treat and send the bill to Medicare as it is a “preexisting condition covered by NYSWC. Any attempt to do so would constitute fraud on the federal government.” quote from SSA response to my inquiry.
The facts are in with regards to the actual number of denials and it is very different than what the bureaucrats represent, as JL says. In response to a FOIL request actual numbers were released. Sad to say that these figures have not been published outside of the New York Workers’ Compensation Alliance: http://www.nyworkerscompensationalliance.org/uploads/file/MTGFoilResponse.pdf
Boo hoo Allen. At $35 a visit your chiro billed over $100K? Thats 2,857 treatments. The MTG on chiro care got the full support of the chiropractic community before the regs were promulgated. I have had claimant’s going to a chiro for literally decades, with zero improvement.If there is discernable improvement the variance will be allowed, it is the habitual treatment with no effect syndrome that it is trying to curb.
This is all bull. The chiropracters run up a bill to $10,000 to $20,000, so the lawyers can show damages and sue.
When the insurance companies pay; the patient is Miraculously Cured!
Of course, no legit regular doctor would participate in this so they seek the Chiropracters cause they’re all sleaze. Hence everyones insurance sky rockets.
chiropractors got paid 33.70 per visit for the last decade, no one bills 10,000 to 20,000 in NY. Dave is a wrong. patients get better with real care, not with drugs. the new system is flawed.
are you out of your mind? This is not personal injury this is Workers Comp where injured workers do not sue unless their is gross previously reported negligence. This is a case in which the State has the mandate to cover permanently injured workers and are deviously trying to get out of the responsibility because they waste so much money on other garbage that they are bankrupt.
Dave you are ignorant of what NYS Worker’s Comp is, and its history. It is rather amazing to me that such an ill-informed comment could incur so many positive responses. I can only imagine that facts do not matter to these people, who then go and vote based on their fact-challenged opinions and is likely why such shoddy law such as MTG are passed.
NYSWC takes the place of lawsuits and can correctly be called the original tort reform, as it was designed to take lawsuits off the table. Under NYSWC you can not sue your employer, period.
Extensive Independent Medical Exams (IME) are carried out by “legitimate”, in Dave’s words, medical doctors who have no relationship to the patient (they can and do seem to have close ties to insurance companies though) and medical findings are presented to Judges. The judges are trained in NYSWC law and then adjudicate, or decide, based on the facts presented at hearings, the extent of the disability and it’s permanence as well as approved treatment plans in some instances.
It is quite clear, and I could cite my personal experiences, that the costs of treatment under these guidelines do go up as does the reliance on opiates, which BTW has become an epidemic problem in NY over the past year, and I posit it is directly caused by this law.
Chiro’s own standards agree with MTG’s. The legislation they introduced in Western NY indicated treatment prior to 2010 should be conducted one way, and differently after 2010. That is just not logical to me
Mr Silber is spreading misinformation.CA rising med costs are due to increased hospitalizattion, drug repackaging and compounding. There is no a whit of evidence that it had anything to do with the restrictions on chiro care.
Ask and provider if they get 2/3 of their variances approved. The beaurocrats who wrote these idiotic guidelines are lying out of their teeth. Another example of crooked government giving into to lobbies. Hopefully the tens of thousands of New Yorkers screwed by these politicians as well as their health providers will remember this on election days
With regards to the MG-2’s (variance request) being approved, the new paper work required only gives the insurance companies as many reasons to deny treatment as there are blanks to fill on the form. It is common practice to deny treatment based on typographical errors in the form that have no bearing on the substance of the request.
For example, transposing a digit in WCB number, or submitting a medical report in a different FAX transmission then the MG-2, even if only seconds apart or submitting the reports in separate FAX transmissions to the different insurers instead of in a “batch”.
Add to this the ever shifting interpretation of the guidelines by the state’s very own Medical Director’s Office. Example: In March of last year I was told that a variance (MG-2) was required to receive only 8 chiropractic treatments for an injury, by November that had shifted to four treatments over eight weeks for an “exacerbation” (magic word!) documented by an MD with a referral from that MD, and now, I am told no referral nor examination by an MD is required and chiropractors just need to file the C4 as they used to.
This has led to the issue in my small city in Western NY, of the primary billing company that bills WC for chiropractors to stop billing for WC forcing every one of the local chiropractors on the NYSWC Medical Director’s Office referral list to drop their WC patients.
Personally I was dropped by my Pain Management osteopath, then my physical therapist refused to treat with out a written guarantee from the insurers (will never happen as not paying at all is more common than actually paying), then I was dropped by my chiropractor with the explanation that their billing company refused to bill NYSWC. I found out through a phone call to the billing agent who let slip (likely unethically) that the good doctor had lost $100,000 over the past year and a half treating long time patients who’s bills were denied for the specious reasons I sighted above. He continued to treat his patients until it became a financial burden.
Garbage law and the simple fact is I could have recovered enough to go to work a year ago if the approved treatment plan had been adhered to by the insurers. As it is I have been left doped up on narcotics, if I am not careful, and unable to consistently do my home exercise program due to the lack of treatment. The insurance company now uses this “lack of compliance” in their denials, with no sense of the irony.
As an addendum, the lack of treatment that has resulted through this convoluted MTG law has actually put me into the federal Medicare & Social Security Disability program as my conditions have worsened. The kicker is that until “Obamacare” fully kicks in in 2014, I can not treat and send the bill to Medicare as it is a “preexisting condition covered by NYSWC. Any attempt to do so would constitute fraud on the federal government.” quote from SSA response to my inquiry.
The facts are in with regards to the actual number of denials and it is very different than what the bureaucrats represent, as JL says. In response to a FOIL request actual numbers were released. Sad to say that these figures have not been published outside of the New York Workers’ Compensation Alliance:
http://www.nyworkerscompensationalliance.org/uploads/file/MTGFoilResponse.pdf
Boo hoo Allen. At $35 a visit your chiro billed over $100K? Thats 2,857 treatments. The MTG on chiro care got the full support of the chiropractic community before the regs were promulgated. I have had claimant’s going to a chiro for literally decades, with zero improvement.If there is discernable improvement the variance will be allowed, it is the habitual treatment with no effect syndrome that it is trying to curb.