Too funny. New graduates come out of law school with a burning desire to sue someone and make a name for themselves. They can’t find a job because the country is virtually saturated with attorneys so they sue the law school. Student vs. professors, I’ll sit back and watch this one with a smile.
You must be kidding. Welcome to the real world little law students, suck it up stop your useless blogging and go look for a job. It’s called a recession A.H.’s
One should do a little more research than believing the law school’s job placement records. What might have been true (job placement numbers) a few years ago may not be true today. Buyer beware.
I get a kick out of the risk management technique of making sure the advertising of the school is based on reality. what a novel concept. Crazy it needs to be said.
I am trying to think about the damages and how they are going to prove causation. Yeah the play with the numbers but what does that have to do with your not getting a job.
These law students are shooting themselves in the foot. If they win, their law degree is now tarnished. If they lose they just became “one of the idiots that sued their own school.” I am sure many employeers are just looking for people like that. And for the bystanders that new the whole thing was bunk, they have to deal with being associated with these idiots.
No alum is going to want to help anyone from tehse classes. real stupid strategy.
I guess these kids did not learn about “puffery” in their advertising law classes.
The whole education system will soon be under fire…for, for example, selling woman’s studies degrees that offer little hope of ever getting a related job and for taking wonderful care of themselves. Our educators may not be getting filthy rich but they’re taking very good care of themselves with money that students have to borrow. It’s the biggest scam going and it’s obfuscated with one simple but misleading truth: “education is good.”
This shows the mentality of the average attorney. It’s always somebody else’s fault so let’s sue.
It’s a great case for them to make: “only the best of the best are getting jobs. And I am certainly not among the best of the best.” I bet their parents are so proud.
These lawsuits have absolutely no merit and are simply indicative of how spoiled, self-absorbed and self-entitled are these young attorneys. The evidence has been out there for two decades – graduates of Tier II, III and IV law schools, especially the latter two categories, are NOT going to get starting salaries of $160,000 and a position with a silk-stocking firm. These arrested adolescents didn’t bother to investigate the job market. They made an adult decision to gamble that they would be the exception and beat the system. They lost. Actions have consequences – something these possessors of extreme entitlement do not want to face up to. No sympathy here. The law schools gave them a legal education. If they want to practice law – hang out a shingle like innumerable others have done before.
I try real hard to be open-minded about attorneys and not think they all are low life POS’s. But then I read a story about biting the hand that feeds (fed) you, and I am once again forced to try real hard to NOT think they are all a-holes. I think I am gonna stop trying on both accounts.
Four years ago when my son started at a well-known engineering school – they said during orientation that 2/3rd of the students in the room would not be there for graduation. They have a very difficult curriculum.
Accurate in my son’s case, telling in the school’s honesty. Doesn’t make the tuition finance installments any easier to pay, but at least he’s now a 3.8 Accounting major going for his MBA. The experience forced him to mature. I think lots of students and apparently a few recent alumni need a kick in the keester growing-up.
Lucky for the professors they weren’t teaching med classes. Imagine an EMT ex-student who couldn’t get an internship finding Old Prof Brown on a stretcher.
If they closed 75% of the Law Schools in America, we would still have too many lawyers in the country for 50 years. We have the most litigous society in the history of the world. These kids have been watching too many lawyer stories on TV and think all lawyers have penthouses and Mercedes and start off with 6 figure salaries. Not to worry, the unions will fund them as OWS protestors and they can live in a tent and travel from city to city protesting the 1% crowd.
How about all these lawyers fight for big things instead of playing gotcha with the colleges on minor crap. Fight at least for the nominal return of the bankruptcy protections to all student loans. If there is to be a lawsuit, it should be a class action based upon the systemic failure to inform students about the lack of bankruptcy and other standard consumer protections prior to the loans being taken out.
This is an omission that should carry some currency in court.
Exactly how old are you people? Do you not have any idea about the education scam that has been pushed on young people for at least the past 20 years? Guidance couselors, teachers, and parents spend years trying to convince the children to go to college when they turn 18 (cost/benefit analysis be damned!) and then you are SURPRISED when they fall for it?
Perhaps you don’t remember what it is like to be 18? Kids are easy marks for scammers. Agree with the comment about the BS women’s studies degrees. Shouldn’t there be someone looking out for the children? You should be going down to your local university and demonstrating outside the Sociology Department before those predators rob another young person of his/her future, instead of sitting there wondering why 18 year olds make funny decisions.
Wow, I hold a masters in sociology and I’m doing quite fine in the insurance industry, thanks so much. Our companies are filled with history majors, sociology majors, and others who are taught to think critically (hopefully) while in school.
I don’t mean to disparage any one particular field of study, but the distribution of graduates by type of degree produced by the university system in this country is quite different than the distribution of skills required by the employers of this country.
What 18 year olds are you referring to? Are kids now bypassing undergraduate schools and getting accepted into law universities, fresh out of high school? Sure, there are pre-law majors in undergrad, but the majority of ADULTS who graduate college and head to law school are not pre-law. These ADULTS can put their degrees to use in many different fields, including law. That is their choice. Let these ADULTS sleep in the bed they made.
I agree with your comments. Student loans should be no different than any other loans. The private lending industry should develop its own underwriting guidelines for amounts to be loaned and interest rates based on default risk. This would rein in the amount of student loans available and the interest rate cost would then vary based on the quality of the school (as measured by job placement statistics, probably) as well as the major. The lack of free-flowing, cheap money would stop runaway university cost inflation, making degrees more affordable overall. Math degree interest rate = 5%, Sociology degree interest rate = 15%.
We would see far fewer women’s studies majors, I’m willing to bet.
As a 30 year old still paying off what is left of my student loans for my undergrad, I see these stories and laugh. I have seen so many classmates that went on to Law school after their undergrad, only to rack up huge debt and not see the return. No one to blame but themselves. Seems that this generation thinks that if you go and get yourself a couple degrees your entitled to a fortune. There is limited value in your education if you are incabable of creating real value for your company or your clients. Business’s don’t survive off of the diplomas hanging on the walls of their offices. Bring real value to the table and you will be paid for it. If you make an adult decision to pursue a law degree, then quit bitching about the loans when you graduate. Maybe people will learn that unless your are finishing in the top portion of a 1st tier law school you are literally wasting your money to invest in this profession. Greed and Ignorance is to blame. TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS PEOPLE.
What the law grads are upset about is that the law school projected higher hire percentages than what was true. A school may say that in 2011 78% of their grads got jobs out of school within the first 8 months of graduation, but what they aren’t telling you is that 20%-30% of those hired out of the 78% are NOT legal jobs or they are hired as paralegals. Since this is just now coming to light, these grads who didn’t get jobs or are working as a paralegal for $15 an hour were mislead into thinking that they had a 78% chance of getting a job within 8 months of graduation.
I’m all for taking repsonsibility for my actions and so are my friends that just graduated from law school jobless, but the schools need to be held responsibile for not being accruate with their numbers.
They aren’t spoiled, just $200K in student loan debt, promised they had a good chance of getting a good job out of school and struggling.
So now it is the law schools responsibility to predict the future of the job market? Maybe in 20006 they had these great numbers when these kids decided to go to their law school. Come 2009 when they graduated, the economy sucked so there were less jobs to be had. C’mon Ms. L, there are no guarantees in life besides death, taxes, and a nagging mother-in-law.
Right you are youngin. I paid mine off many years ago. My oldest is graduating in 2012 and he only has 5k in loans. My other son just started college and he has none so far.
My boyfriend is an attorney and his student loan is more than our mortgage. We happily pay that bill because we know what the return will eventually be. We’re not talking about predicting the future, we’re talking inflating statistics from the past. A law school will boast that PAST graduated got X% of within 8 months of graduating, but they aren’t telling you that 20-30% of those hired were not hired to a legal job.
I think the students just want the truth, tell me how many people got LEGAL jobs LAST year so I can make my decision on which school I want to go to.
December 30, 2011 at 9:25 am
Beau says:
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Ms. L,
I can assure you none of the schools made any guarantees. Were they trying to sell their product? Yes. Is anyone forced to buy it? No.
I suppose next your going to tell me that these same “victims” are going to sue Nike cause the Jordan’s that they bought still wouldn’t make them dunk a basketball. Then they will sue their gym because they weren’t able to lose weight like the advertisement said.
Most would assume anyone willing to invest 200K in themselves would have enough common sense to know that there are no guarantees.
I would tell your friends that they made a poor investment decision. It happens in life. Sorry. Time to put on the big boy pants and deal with consequences.
They can waste their time looking for blame or they can sit in a tent on wallstreet, but sooner or later they must realize that life is difficult and there are winners and losers. There are not medals passed out to everyone equally for participation.
Too funny. New graduates come out of law school with a burning desire to sue someone and make a name for themselves. They can’t find a job because the country is virtually saturated with attorneys so they sue the law school. Student vs. professors, I’ll sit back and watch this one with a smile.
The little snot-nosed brats learned their lessons a little too well. The reality show version should be interesting!
Hell of a way to get their student loans paid isn’t it?
“And for my first lawsuit, I name….my school! And forget the fund drive phone calls!”
You must be kidding. Welcome to the real world little law students, suck it up stop your useless blogging and go look for a job. It’s called a recession A.H.’s
But Jeff…we’re in recovery!!
It was only a matter of time before they started eating their own. It just goes to show you that it doesn’t take intelligence to be an attorney.
One should do a little more research than believing the law school’s job placement records. What might have been true (job placement numbers) a few years ago may not be true today. Buyer beware.
I get a kick out of the risk management technique of making sure the advertising of the school is based on reality. what a novel concept. Crazy it needs to be said.
I am trying to think about the damages and how they are going to prove causation. Yeah the play with the numbers but what does that have to do with your not getting a job.
These law students are shooting themselves in the foot. If they win, their law degree is now tarnished. If they lose they just became “one of the idiots that sued their own school.” I am sure many employeers are just looking for people like that. And for the bystanders that new the whole thing was bunk, they have to deal with being associated with these idiots.
No alum is going to want to help anyone from tehse classes. real stupid strategy.
I guess these kids did not learn about “puffery” in their advertising law classes.
Can you say ironic?
The whole education system will soon be under fire…for, for example, selling woman’s studies degrees that offer little hope of ever getting a related job and for taking wonderful care of themselves. Our educators may not be getting filthy rich but they’re taking very good care of themselves with money that students have to borrow. It’s the biggest scam going and it’s obfuscated with one simple but misleading truth: “education is good.”
This shows the mentality of the average attorney. It’s always somebody else’s fault so let’s sue.
It’s a great case for them to make: “only the best of the best are getting jobs. And I am certainly not among the best of the best.” I bet their parents are so proud.
These lawsuits have absolutely no merit and are simply indicative of how spoiled, self-absorbed and self-entitled are these young attorneys. The evidence has been out there for two decades – graduates of Tier II, III and IV law schools, especially the latter two categories, are NOT going to get starting salaries of $160,000 and a position with a silk-stocking firm. These arrested adolescents didn’t bother to investigate the job market. They made an adult decision to gamble that they would be the exception and beat the system. They lost. Actions have consequences – something these possessors of extreme entitlement do not want to face up to. No sympathy here. The law schools gave them a legal education. If they want to practice law – hang out a shingle like innumerable others have done before.
No, they’ll probably go to work for the government. Just sayin’
I try real hard to be open-minded about attorneys and not think they all are low life POS’s. But then I read a story about biting the hand that feeds (fed) you, and I am once again forced to try real hard to NOT think they are all a-holes. I think I am gonna stop trying on both accounts.
Four years ago when my son started at a well-known engineering school – they said during orientation that 2/3rd of the students in the room would not be there for graduation. They have a very difficult curriculum.
Accurate in my son’s case, telling in the school’s honesty. Doesn’t make the tuition finance installments any easier to pay, but at least he’s now a 3.8 Accounting major going for his MBA. The experience forced him to mature. I think lots of students and apparently a few recent alumni need a kick in the keester growing-up.
Lucky for the professors they weren’t teaching med classes. Imagine an EMT ex-student who couldn’t get an internship finding Old Prof Brown on a stretcher.
HEY ALL YOU YOUNG’NS THIS MAY COME AS A SHOCK BUT BRACE YOURSELVES: “LIFE IS NOT ALWAYS FAIR” WOW! HOW ABOUT YOU JOIN THE REAL WORLD…
If they closed 75% of the Law Schools in America, we would still have too many lawyers in the country for 50 years. We have the most litigous society in the history of the world. These kids have been watching too many lawyer stories on TV and think all lawyers have penthouses and Mercedes and start off with 6 figure salaries. Not to worry, the unions will fund them as OWS protestors and they can live in a tent and travel from city to city protesting the 1% crowd.
The irony of it all is just killing me!
You reap what you sow!
How about all these lawyers fight for big things instead of playing gotcha with the colleges on minor crap. Fight at least for the nominal return of the bankruptcy protections to all student loans. If there is to be a lawsuit, it should be a class action based upon the systemic failure to inform students about the lack of bankruptcy and other standard consumer protections prior to the loans being taken out.
This is an omission that should carry some currency in court.
Exactly how old are you people? Do you not have any idea about the education scam that has been pushed on young people for at least the past 20 years? Guidance couselors, teachers, and parents spend years trying to convince the children to go to college when they turn 18 (cost/benefit analysis be damned!) and then you are SURPRISED when they fall for it?
Perhaps you don’t remember what it is like to be 18? Kids are easy marks for scammers. Agree with the comment about the BS women’s studies degrees. Shouldn’t there be someone looking out for the children? You should be going down to your local university and demonstrating outside the Sociology Department before those predators rob another young person of his/her future, instead of sitting there wondering why 18 year olds make funny decisions.
Wow, I hold a masters in sociology and I’m doing quite fine in the insurance industry, thanks so much. Our companies are filled with history majors, sociology majors, and others who are taught to think critically (hopefully) while in school.
I don’t mean to disparage any one particular field of study, but the distribution of graduates by type of degree produced by the university system in this country is quite different than the distribution of skills required by the employers of this country.
Just sayin’
What 18 year olds are you referring to? Are kids now bypassing undergraduate schools and getting accepted into law universities, fresh out of high school? Sure, there are pre-law majors in undergrad, but the majority of ADULTS who graduate college and head to law school are not pre-law. These ADULTS can put their degrees to use in many different fields, including law. That is their choice. Let these ADULTS sleep in the bed they made.
I agree with your comments. Student loans should be no different than any other loans. The private lending industry should develop its own underwriting guidelines for amounts to be loaned and interest rates based on default risk. This would rein in the amount of student loans available and the interest rate cost would then vary based on the quality of the school (as measured by job placement statistics, probably) as well as the major. The lack of free-flowing, cheap money would stop runaway university cost inflation, making degrees more affordable overall. Math degree interest rate = 5%, Sociology degree interest rate = 15%.
We would see far fewer women’s studies majors, I’m willing to bet.
As a 30 year old still paying off what is left of my student loans for my undergrad, I see these stories and laugh. I have seen so many classmates that went on to Law school after their undergrad, only to rack up huge debt and not see the return. No one to blame but themselves. Seems that this generation thinks that if you go and get yourself a couple degrees your entitled to a fortune. There is limited value in your education if you are incabable of creating real value for your company or your clients. Business’s don’t survive off of the diplomas hanging on the walls of their offices. Bring real value to the table and you will be paid for it. If you make an adult decision to pursue a law degree, then quit bitching about the loans when you graduate. Maybe people will learn that unless your are finishing in the top portion of a 1st tier law school you are literally wasting your money to invest in this profession. Greed and Ignorance is to blame. TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS PEOPLE.
Regards,
Not an Idiot
What the law grads are upset about is that the law school projected higher hire percentages than what was true. A school may say that in 2011 78% of their grads got jobs out of school within the first 8 months of graduation, but what they aren’t telling you is that 20%-30% of those hired out of the 78% are NOT legal jobs or they are hired as paralegals. Since this is just now coming to light, these grads who didn’t get jobs or are working as a paralegal for $15 an hour were mislead into thinking that they had a 78% chance of getting a job within 8 months of graduation.
I’m all for taking repsonsibility for my actions and so are my friends that just graduated from law school jobless, but the schools need to be held responsibile for not being accruate with their numbers.
They aren’t spoiled, just $200K in student loan debt, promised they had a good chance of getting a good job out of school and struggling.
And no, I’m not an attorney.
So now it is the law schools responsibility to predict the future of the job market? Maybe in 20006 they had these great numbers when these kids decided to go to their law school. Come 2009 when they graduated, the economy sucked so there were less jobs to be had. C’mon Ms. L, there are no guarantees in life besides death, taxes, and a nagging mother-in-law.
You forgot “student loan bill”.
Right you are youngin. I paid mine off many years ago. My oldest is graduating in 2012 and he only has 5k in loans. My other son just started college and he has none so far.
My boyfriend is an attorney and his student loan is more than our mortgage. We happily pay that bill because we know what the return will eventually be. We’re not talking about predicting the future, we’re talking inflating statistics from the past. A law school will boast that PAST graduated got X% of within 8 months of graduating, but they aren’t telling you that 20-30% of those hired were not hired to a legal job.
I think the students just want the truth, tell me how many people got LEGAL jobs LAST year so I can make my decision on which school I want to go to.
Ms. L,
I can assure you none of the schools made any guarantees. Were they trying to sell their product? Yes. Is anyone forced to buy it? No.
I suppose next your going to tell me that these same “victims” are going to sue Nike cause the Jordan’s that they bought still wouldn’t make them dunk a basketball. Then they will sue their gym because they weren’t able to lose weight like the advertisement said.
Most would assume anyone willing to invest 200K in themselves would have enough common sense to know that there are no guarantees.
I would tell your friends that they made a poor investment decision. It happens in life. Sorry. Time to put on the big boy pants and deal with consequences.
They can waste their time looking for blame or they can sit in a tent on wallstreet, but sooner or later they must realize that life is difficult and there are winners and losers. There are not medals passed out to everyone equally for participation.