Is this study to represent middle average Joe American or have they used skewed statistics?
I thought home ownership was higher than 56 percent. The home ownership rate for 2003 was 68.3%, so I am going to guess their statistical group is off the mark for the mean or average person in America.
Now about the money owed to the Out-of-pocket medical expenses. If I am not mistaken more States than not, have laws that, if you arrange payments with the hospital, the hospital is prohibited from putting your financial health in an adverse position. Hospitals have departments set in place to help make arrangements for re-payment. I’ll admit that if a person does incur $13,000 in bills for a psychiatry, it could be a problem. They could put your financial stability in jeopardy because they individual providers don’t fall under the same rules as hospitals.
They say co-pays are a cause to this problem. My wife is with an PPO (her choice) with an office visit co-pay of $20. If she went to the doctor every day of the week (including Saturday and Sunday) her annual co-pay could be in the $7,000 range but what doctor would have you visit their office 7 days out of every week?
My son and I are an HSA with a per family deductible of $5,100 and then 100% is paid after that deductible. Previously we were both on my wife’s PPO and that was costing $595 a month. Going to the HSA lowered the health insurance premium to $228 a month leaving us with a handsome savings that went into the HSA account.
I don’t know, the numbers just don’t add up. I know it is easy to fall into financial trouble, 15 years ago I personally visited that financial problem. I think what probably put these people over the edge is the demon. living in our society. Credit card companies and their high interest rates. The government funds rate was the lowest in 45 years and I still read of credit card companies that have interest rates as high as 31 percent. Has anyone heard anything, one peep, from the government officials about interest rates on credit cards? Once upon a time in America we had usury rates and anything charged above that was a crime. Loan sharks were the ones that fell into that criminal category. Once the idea of usury was dropped, I think the loan shark business went main stream America. The debt load in America is slowly boiling the Capitalist machine to death and some day that chicken has to come home to roost.
Since gambling addiction and psychiatric care is referenced, the obvious unanswered question in this study is this: what portion of this data is attributed to substance abuse?
Have you ever visited a hospital emergency room. I broke my arm last year. What did I see there. People dressed to the nines in $100+ sneakers with cell phones and brand new moderate to expensive cars and a lot of jewelry. No wonder they can’t afford their medical expenses. Another liberal spin. I’m sick and tired of irresponible people wanting there cake and eating it too. When we started our business, we couldn’t afford Health Insurance without making dramatic cuts to the expendable portion of our income. We ate out less. Shopped at discount department stores, And basically did what we had to do to afford to provide health care. Guess what. We did it. Did it hurt. YES. But responsible people do what they have to do. That’s the problem. Irresponibility. So liberals SHUT UP. If you are that concerned, adopt a family without health care and pay for it out of YOUR pocket. Not mine.
What the hell does this have to do with right vs. left, republican vs. democrat, etc? You could have been diagnosed with a critical illness WHILE you were in the process of saving money by shopping at discount stores. Insurance is the exchange of an unknown risk with a known cost. Since predicting the timing of such an event is impossible, you have to assume the need is immediate. You may not always have time to “straighten up” your lifestyle.
You said it. I can’t count how many times people have told me they can’t afford health insurance. Meanwhile I am see their state of the art cell phone, including a great monthly cell phone plan; not just basic cable tv; a computer better than my office computer and the kids are running around in $75 or more basketball sneakers. I wonder what would happen if everyone was required to carry some form of health insurance, like they do in States with mandatory car insurance. You might just see people taking responsibility to their own lifestyles.
The study in this article addresses issues that affect many of us in insurance, even as far as credit reporting, etc. If you feel that strongly about the study’s implications, try digging up the study and taking a hard look at their data and other information. That would be far more productive than just tarring it with a “liberal vs conservative”, “greedy them vs hardworking us” swipe and brushing it aside.
Many health plans have limitations on substance and alcohol abuse. Some plans, especially self-insured, may deny benefits altogether for substance abuse.
Look here is what frustrates many of us in the insurance business:
In my 23 years of business I have built a good book of individual health and group health.
I can point (albeit anecdotal evidence) to certain industries that employees vote to not partake in the cost of health insurance. The employees would rather have the money in their check rather than having some go to health insurance. It happens day after day after day across the fabric of the USA.
There is never ever a study into the problem of people that refuse to take responsibility for their health coverage. So when we see the studies like the one in question we know that there is a deeper issue that isn’t addressed and that is one of responsibility. When they do these studies why don’t they ask the hard questions.? Because many times the studies themselves are meant to be used for another purpose and often that purpose is political in nature.
Yes we all know that substance abuse is one of the better coverages in health insurance. I am one of those that believe substance abuse falls outside the arena of health insurance. Maybe there could be policies strictly for substance abuse kind of like critical illness policies. Hm, can we say adverse selection on that one? I can hear them now, what do you mean my substance abuse policy doesn’t help me from snorting that next line? Darn! Don’t you understand that stuff is killing my liver!
Hey, does my auto insurance cover my car engine? I forgot to add the oil, ran it without oil….kind of treated it badly and feel that there should be some type of coverage.
I suprised at the comments people are making. I wonder how many of the people filing Bankrupcy are actually the people wearing the high priced shoes and clothing, carrying expensive cell phones, etc. I’ve known a few people that have filed for medical reasons and all were because of serious long term illnesses where after a few years of deductibles, out-of-pocket medical expenses, and the cost of items not covered (i.e. P.T., Prescriptions, Mental Heath needs) were unable to pay because of loss wages from not working. All ended up filing because the lose of income made it near impossible to pay for all their medical expenses and living expenses without giving up/selling their homes.
Should individuals/families have to become homeless in order to file? Also how many of the filiers employers/jobs provided them with Short or Long Term Disability Insurance? If provided was the amount of income under such plans sufficient to live on.
Another comment about the comment from etimer of 7:01 a.m. 2/4/05, for all the people who elected not to purchase medical insurance from him/her, how many of them had decent income levels that would allow them to support a family of 4 (lets say over $40k gross annually) at minimal? If the est. cost of employee contribution, employers paid insurance policies is $250-400 a month, after taxes could the average family of 4, having a net tax income of $2800 monthly before paying their share of medical premiums really afford to pay for it and make mortgagee/rent payments ($500-1,000 monthly), Utilities ($200-300 monthly), Groceries ($500 monthly for 4 people – that approx $30 weekly per person and doesn’t include eating out), Clothing and other basic expenses? — Doesn’t leave much for the expensive shoes either does it?
One last comment. With serious illnesses even in households with two incomes, may times the person with the illness is unable to work and the other person is needed to take care of the sick person, therefore making it impossible to work.
It’s not just the cost of insurance that leads some into bankruptcy but society in general when everyone is too busy being wrapped up in their own lives to help out their neighbors. I don’t mean financially either. I wonder if anyone complaining, has ever worked all day, then went home and sent their time helping out their sick friends or neighbors or their families day-after-day, week-after-week, month-after-month thereby freeing up a spouse so that they could work to bring in an income to help out?
The nature of the modern society and the inability and/or unwillingness of individuals to be neighborly to one another has created many problems that has caused additional financial difficulty for some. Lets face it, you never heard of anyone filing bankrupcy 50 years ago when people made time for one another.
I personally don’t have a problem with someone filing bankruptcy if it’s for financial problems because of situations beyond their control. However I do object to individuals/business filing because of credit problems and especially if they’ve done it more than one time.
Not everyone, but a few.
One of my friend’s husband had a massive heart attack at 45. He was out of work for 6 months. 3 months after his heart attack she was in a car accident. (NOT her fault- other driver ran red light) His health picked up a good chunk of his medical, and her auto/other driver’s auto picked up a good chunk of hers. But he needed all kinds of meds/therapy, she required back surgery w/rehab. Estimated out of pocket? Around $18,000. BUT neither of them could work for months. Everything fell behind, utilities were in danger of cut-off. They had 3 kids that still needed to eat. His employer gave him a leave of absense, but she lost her job. By the time they were both able to go back to work, their debt was somewhere in the $75K range. If they hadn’t filed bankruptcy, they would have lost a home that they’d lived in AND paid for over the last 10 years.
That’s not as isolated as people think. My best friend has Systemmic Lupus. Her 13 year old daughter was just diagnosed with Lupus, including Rheumatoid Arthritis. Both of them have serious health issues requiring expensive medication (not covered by insurance) and loss of time from work and school. Yes, she has a nice house with a new truck. But she PAYS for all of it, including almost $800 a month for health insurance. There are times she has been out of work for a couple of months at a time. Should she live in a cheap apartment ‘just in case’?
My premiums have gone from $600 to $950 a month for insurance in the last 2 years- coverage has decreased (for meds and copays are higher) and I have no idea what I’m in for since I’ve been diagnosed with an as yet undetermined thyroid problem. After insurance my husband brings home roughly $250 a week. We don’t live well on that, let me tell you. I make decent money, but if the rates go much higher, we’ll be better off with one of us losing our jobs and going to welfare.
My mother is on social security/disabilty. Her meds are $300 a month when she only makes about $900. Guess who has to pick up the slack for that?
MOST of the ‘blue-collar workers’ in this country are little more then 1 major health crisis from bankruptcy. Health insurance premiums are pushing to unobtainable premium rates while the coverage is dropping drastically.
Ok, what am I missing her…..I’m confused???
Is this study to represent middle average Joe American or have they used skewed statistics?
I thought home ownership was higher than 56 percent. The home ownership rate for 2003 was 68.3%, so I am going to guess their statistical group is off the mark for the mean or average person in America.
Now about the money owed to the Out-of-pocket medical expenses. If I am not mistaken more States than not, have laws that, if you arrange payments with the hospital, the hospital is prohibited from putting your financial health in an adverse position. Hospitals have departments set in place to help make arrangements for re-payment. I’ll admit that if a person does incur $13,000 in bills for a psychiatry, it could be a problem. They could put your financial stability in jeopardy because they individual providers don’t fall under the same rules as hospitals.
They say co-pays are a cause to this problem. My wife is with an PPO (her choice) with an office visit co-pay of $20. If she went to the doctor every day of the week (including Saturday and Sunday) her annual co-pay could be in the $7,000 range but what doctor would have you visit their office 7 days out of every week?
My son and I are an HSA with a per family deductible of $5,100 and then 100% is paid after that deductible. Previously we were both on my wife’s PPO and that was costing $595 a month. Going to the HSA lowered the health insurance premium to $228 a month leaving us with a handsome savings that went into the HSA account.
I don’t know, the numbers just don’t add up. I know it is easy to fall into financial trouble, 15 years ago I personally visited that financial problem. I think what probably put these people over the edge is the demon. living in our society. Credit card companies and their high interest rates. The government funds rate was the lowest in 45 years and I still read of credit card companies that have interest rates as high as 31 percent. Has anyone heard anything, one peep, from the government officials about interest rates on credit cards? Once upon a time in America we had usury rates and anything charged above that was a crime. Loan sharks were the ones that fell into that criminal category. Once the idea of usury was dropped, I think the loan shark business went main stream America. The debt load in America is slowly boiling the Capitalist machine to death and some day that chicken has to come home to roost.
Well said!
Since gambling addiction and psychiatric care is referenced, the obvious unanswered question in this study is this: what portion of this data is attributed to substance abuse?
Have you ever visited a hospital emergency room. I broke my arm last year. What did I see there. People dressed to the nines in $100+ sneakers with cell phones and brand new moderate to expensive cars and a lot of jewelry. No wonder they can’t afford their medical expenses. Another liberal spin. I’m sick and tired of irresponible people wanting there cake and eating it too. When we started our business, we couldn’t afford Health Insurance without making dramatic cuts to the expendable portion of our income. We ate out less. Shopped at discount department stores, And basically did what we had to do to afford to provide health care. Guess what. We did it. Did it hurt. YES. But responsible people do what they have to do. That’s the problem. Irresponibility. So liberals SHUT UP. If you are that concerned, adopt a family without health care and pay for it out of YOUR pocket. Not mine.
What the hell does this have to do with right vs. left, republican vs. democrat, etc? You could have been diagnosed with a critical illness WHILE you were in the process of saving money by shopping at discount stores. Insurance is the exchange of an unknown risk with a known cost. Since predicting the timing of such an event is impossible, you have to assume the need is immediate. You may not always have time to “straighten up” your lifestyle.
You said it. I can’t count how many times people have told me they can’t afford health insurance. Meanwhile I am see their state of the art cell phone, including a great monthly cell phone plan; not just basic cable tv; a computer better than my office computer and the kids are running around in $75 or more basketball sneakers. I wonder what would happen if everyone was required to carry some form of health insurance, like they do in States with mandatory car insurance. You might just see people taking responsibility to their own lifestyles.
The study in this article addresses issues that affect many of us in insurance, even as far as credit reporting, etc. If you feel that strongly about the study’s implications, try digging up the study and taking a hard look at their data and other information. That would be far more productive than just tarring it with a “liberal vs conservative”, “greedy them vs hardworking us” swipe and brushing it aside.
Many health plans have limitations on substance and alcohol abuse. Some plans, especially self-insured, may deny benefits altogether for substance abuse.
Look here is what frustrates many of us in the insurance business:
In my 23 years of business I have built a good book of individual health and group health.
I can point (albeit anecdotal evidence) to certain industries that employees vote to not partake in the cost of health insurance. The employees would rather have the money in their check rather than having some go to health insurance. It happens day after day after day across the fabric of the USA.
There is never ever a study into the problem of people that refuse to take responsibility for their health coverage. So when we see the studies like the one in question we know that there is a deeper issue that isn’t addressed and that is one of responsibility. When they do these studies why don’t they ask the hard questions.? Because many times the studies themselves are meant to be used for another purpose and often that purpose is political in nature.
Yes we all know that substance abuse is one of the better coverages in health insurance. I am one of those that believe substance abuse falls outside the arena of health insurance. Maybe there could be policies strictly for substance abuse kind of like critical illness policies. Hm, can we say adverse selection on that one? I can hear them now, what do you mean my substance abuse policy doesn’t help me from snorting that next line? Darn! Don’t you understand that stuff is killing my liver!
Hey, does my auto insurance cover my car engine? I forgot to add the oil, ran it without oil….kind of treated it badly and feel that there should be some type of coverage.
I suprised at the comments people are making. I wonder how many of the people filing Bankrupcy are actually the people wearing the high priced shoes and clothing, carrying expensive cell phones, etc. I’ve known a few people that have filed for medical reasons and all were because of serious long term illnesses where after a few years of deductibles, out-of-pocket medical expenses, and the cost of items not covered (i.e. P.T., Prescriptions, Mental Heath needs) were unable to pay because of loss wages from not working. All ended up filing because the lose of income made it near impossible to pay for all their medical expenses and living expenses without giving up/selling their homes.
Should individuals/families have to become homeless in order to file? Also how many of the filiers employers/jobs provided them with Short or Long Term Disability Insurance? If provided was the amount of income under such plans sufficient to live on.
Another comment about the comment from etimer of 7:01 a.m. 2/4/05, for all the people who elected not to purchase medical insurance from him/her, how many of them had decent income levels that would allow them to support a family of 4 (lets say over $40k gross annually) at minimal? If the est. cost of employee contribution, employers paid insurance policies is $250-400 a month, after taxes could the average family of 4, having a net tax income of $2800 monthly before paying their share of medical premiums really afford to pay for it and make mortgagee/rent payments ($500-1,000 monthly), Utilities ($200-300 monthly), Groceries ($500 monthly for 4 people – that approx $30 weekly per person and doesn’t include eating out), Clothing and other basic expenses? — Doesn’t leave much for the expensive shoes either does it?
One last comment. With serious illnesses even in households with two incomes, may times the person with the illness is unable to work and the other person is needed to take care of the sick person, therefore making it impossible to work.
It’s not just the cost of insurance that leads some into bankruptcy but society in general when everyone is too busy being wrapped up in their own lives to help out their neighbors. I don’t mean financially either. I wonder if anyone complaining, has ever worked all day, then went home and sent their time helping out their sick friends or neighbors or their families day-after-day, week-after-week, month-after-month thereby freeing up a spouse so that they could work to bring in an income to help out?
The nature of the modern society and the inability and/or unwillingness of individuals to be neighborly to one another has created many problems that has caused additional financial difficulty for some. Lets face it, you never heard of anyone filing bankrupcy 50 years ago when people made time for one another.
I personally don’t have a problem with someone filing bankruptcy if it’s for financial problems because of situations beyond their control. However I do object to individuals/business filing because of credit problems and especially if they’ve done it more than one time.
Not everyone, but a few.
One of my friend’s husband had a massive heart attack at 45. He was out of work for 6 months. 3 months after his heart attack she was in a car accident. (NOT her fault- other driver ran red light) His health picked up a good chunk of his medical, and her auto/other driver’s auto picked up a good chunk of hers. But he needed all kinds of meds/therapy, she required back surgery w/rehab. Estimated out of pocket? Around $18,000. BUT neither of them could work for months. Everything fell behind, utilities were in danger of cut-off. They had 3 kids that still needed to eat. His employer gave him a leave of absense, but she lost her job. By the time they were both able to go back to work, their debt was somewhere in the $75K range. If they hadn’t filed bankruptcy, they would have lost a home that they’d lived in AND paid for over the last 10 years.
That’s not as isolated as people think. My best friend has Systemmic Lupus. Her 13 year old daughter was just diagnosed with Lupus, including Rheumatoid Arthritis. Both of them have serious health issues requiring expensive medication (not covered by insurance) and loss of time from work and school. Yes, she has a nice house with a new truck. But she PAYS for all of it, including almost $800 a month for health insurance. There are times she has been out of work for a couple of months at a time. Should she live in a cheap apartment ‘just in case’?
My premiums have gone from $600 to $950 a month for insurance in the last 2 years- coverage has decreased (for meds and copays are higher) and I have no idea what I’m in for since I’ve been diagnosed with an as yet undetermined thyroid problem. After insurance my husband brings home roughly $250 a week. We don’t live well on that, let me tell you. I make decent money, but if the rates go much higher, we’ll be better off with one of us losing our jobs and going to welfare.
My mother is on social security/disabilty. Her meds are $300 a month when she only makes about $900. Guess who has to pick up the slack for that?
MOST of the ‘blue-collar workers’ in this country are little more then 1 major health crisis from bankruptcy. Health insurance premiums are pushing to unobtainable premium rates while the coverage is dropping drastically.