As much as I would like to take some pleasure in seeing these greedy !@#$s swinging from the symbolic hang-man’s noose, their actions damage our whole industry. These fat cats are set for life, while the working schlubs in our business will be paying the price for years. Public hanging might satisfy the current blood-lust, but once the gallows are built in the town square, the executioner needs to drum up demand for business…
Now it’s AIG in the ‘barrel’. Isn’t it interessting to see how some of the most revered companies on Wall Street including their often publicized executives have been exposed (mostly through the efforts of Eliot Spitzer) have now been thoroughly tarnished?
Look at the millions and billions some of these companies have ‘settled’ for to avoid further scrutiny and litigation. The fact is those settlements pale against the billions by which consumers have been ‘ripped-off’ by these same companies. Many innocent investors who bought into theses companies have taken a beating.
The story that still isn’t being explored and told is the influence these same companies have exerted on the political front. These same companies and their top executives have poured millions upon millions to curry favor with elected and appointed officials for the purpose of influencing the laws that regulate their businesses. Look at the recent new Bankruptcy bill that was heavily promoted and funded by the banks and credit card companies.
Herbert Hoover said: “You know, the only trouble with capitalism is capitalists. they’re too damn greedy.” Today Mr. Hoover would probably add “and they’re dishonest”.
I’ve been saying it for years-our industry has been ripe for so long to be investigated that it stinks!
Wait until the Feds get into looking at and investigating the accounting practices of the major insurance companies. Huge earnings and profits are hidden and greatly reduced and diminished by the companies infusing their reserve accounts- they then beef up the liability side of their balance sheets all the while earning investment income on the reserve accounts.
These guys have got to do time and set an example once and for all that white collar corruption and greed will not be tolerated.
They can’t use the “I didn’t know” defense since Bernie Ebbers blew that one.
Hooray for the good guys!
Again, let’s not paint everyone in the industry with a broad brush. It is a shame that a few individuals with executive power can have a negative influence on subordinates who otherwise are people of extreme integrity and honesty.
Coming from a small company less than $10M of written premium, I was always wondering how the big giant carriers could always hit “their numbers” and not show an extreme amount of volatility from one period to the next. Looks like I found my answer, in off-shore reinsurance recoverables.
As for liability setting, I would much rather see a carrier set appropriate loss reserve levels. I sure hate it when they don’t and I’m assessed with the resulting mop up from the guarantee fund and I have to include their low rate marketing fiascos into my current rates.
Its amaizing how wide and deap this junk goes. Stand by…its not just the Fortune 500 that fall under the spell of unlimited wealth and power. The are lots of our country folks that now think the crime is not doing bad things its getting caught doing bad things. From “I am not a crook” to “I smoked but did not inhale or have sex with that woman” the leaders we are trained to look up to all have feet of clay. Look around you. We have seen the enemy and the enemy is us. Its just time to do right and show our children how right is done not how might is done.
SMALL CO. GUY
I like your post, I think it is people like you who are the “cement” that built this business and in the long run will be able to hold it together. Been with one of the “Big Broker’s” 30 yr’s (small town agent last 5 yrs.) and have learned to love and respect, what is like doing business on a “handshake” again. I only hope that other Carriers and Brokers learn a lesson from the AG NY investigation and the industry’s “Black Eye” is temp.
Jim,I dont’ disagee but
I have been around long enough and as we used to say in the UNMC “upfront and personel” with some of these people. Greed may be a factor but IMHO it’s much more ego at this point in time that has cased the problems.
CO. MAN,
I am holding stock in AIG, MMC, AOC, WSH, and AJG and I AGREE WITH YOU, but the important thing to keep faith in is once the “Hanging” is over these companies will come back. I can only pray this expierence will have taught them they are a limited amount of providers to service a limited amount of buyers and they will have a limited playing field to work on. The Regionals and the Local’s (with Integrety] willing to compete in the long run, will grow and win.
I can understand previous posts and reactions to the AIG investigation. Still at the end of all this, whether we like it or not, AIG has great management (with some exceptions) and a unique brand name.
So they may re-state results by $ 3B? Mr. Greenberg still deserves the credit for building a superb organization with $ 170B in market cap. Every organization I know has issues its executives would prefer not to read about in the papers. The Spitzers of this world are excellent at discovering them (would they be as good at creating great companies?), especially when the subject of the investigation has a high profile CEO. Mr. Greenberg is gone, results will be restated to provide Mr. Sullivan with a clean start, and AIG will continue to be a superb company for many years. Unfortunately for Hank, he doesn’t get the ending he always dreamed about (and in my opinion, deserves.)
Give Mr. Greenberg a real smooch there, Insurance Person. Sounds like you work for the publicity department of AIG. Greenberg “deserves” to hang. The fitting punishment would be for the millions he “deserves” to be forfeited and his gnarly arse jailed. He’s been a creep for 40 years and it finally caught up with him. AIG always had a certain “attitude” and it was an extension of Mr. Greenberg’s personality. Always a “take-it-or-leave-it” sort of way. Business men who treat their staff and their company as if they can do no wrong “deserve” everything they get when they fall.
Greed does not suck, dishonesty does. Nothing wrong with wanting more of the same (in fact that dries Capitalism). It is always wrong however to do it illegally, or unethically.
Your comments suggest that “The Ends Justify the Means” with regards to AIG’s questionable accounting practices. I wonder if the investors of Enron have the same opinion. I doubt that very much since investors lost millions. Granted the Enron situation is some what different, however haven’t you learned that even the biggest companies can fall, and fall hard? When all is said and done AIG’s investors and customers are left holding the bag.
How many of you high and mighty critics use AIG for your insurance placements? Is it Lexington and their non-admitted coverage? National Union and the money losing D&O market? How about Environmental Insurance? Need capacity? You probably involved American Home, Starr Excess or Lexington, most everyone does!
I only wish that AIG would tell the industry that it was only writing business on it’s terms, charged every agent and insured an underwriting fee to consider their risk (that would eliminate mass marketing of every account to as many carriers as can be found via email in the ever popular broker hunt for lowest possible price and broadest coverage. Now you would have to know your markets and choose intelligently), and removed themselves from unprofitable lines of business. Wouldn’t that be great! You would all have a bunch of underinsured and disgruntled customers. Oh yeah, the Errors and Omissions suits would come in too, without AIG THAT market would dry up as well. Hallelujah!
The insurance market is anything but efficient: our industry overpays our agents and brokers, undercharges our policyholders, tolerates regulatory stupidity, accepts legislative apathy and then gets to be flayed in public.
ok,ok. it aint gonna change. well, it will change a little more,going the same way its been in past few years– us agents will do more work,get less commission,have to TRAINe more underwriters and be stuck with high reserves on claims. we will be be-rated because of lack of production, loss ratios being to high,be covered up with “new products”, changes in policy language,argue with adjusters— WHY, because of the IVORY TOWER MENTALITY at most of the companies,squeeze the agents. 1971 I went to hartford with Aetna agents school right out of college, to learn “the business”,owned my own agency ,sold my agency,now run one with revenues in the millions for someone else– i have seen it all….INA,HOME,AETNA– WHERE ARE THEY NOW?THE SUN WILL COME UP TOMORROW AND WE WILL HAVE THE SAME OLD SITUATIONS ,JUST DIFFERENT FACES.gotta put up with it all, if you dont have the gold you dont have the rule….smell the roses,its still a fun business….
Well there tired of hearing it all, it appears you are not an Agent. Overpaying the Agents? When the companies stick us with rating and issuing policies, when do they kick in the increased commission for the extra time we have to spend doing their work? Or do they share the realized savings by not hiring an Underwriter? It’s like we have become the ATMs of the Insurance World.
As much as I would like to take some pleasure in seeing these greedy !@#$s swinging from the symbolic hang-man’s noose, their actions damage our whole industry. These fat cats are set for life, while the working schlubs in our business will be paying the price for years. Public hanging might satisfy the current blood-lust, but once the gallows are built in the town square, the executioner needs to drum up demand for business…
Now it’s AIG in the ‘barrel’. Isn’t it interessting to see how some of the most revered companies on Wall Street including their often publicized executives have been exposed (mostly through the efforts of Eliot Spitzer) have now been thoroughly tarnished?
Look at the millions and billions some of these companies have ‘settled’ for to avoid further scrutiny and litigation. The fact is those settlements pale against the billions by which consumers have been ‘ripped-off’ by these same companies. Many innocent investors who bought into theses companies have taken a beating.
The story that still isn’t being explored and told is the influence these same companies have exerted on the political front. These same companies and their top executives have poured millions upon millions to curry favor with elected and appointed officials for the purpose of influencing the laws that regulate their businesses. Look at the recent new Bankruptcy bill that was heavily promoted and funded by the banks and credit card companies.
Herbert Hoover said: “You know, the only trouble with capitalism is capitalists. they’re too damn greedy.” Today Mr. Hoover would probably add “and they’re dishonest”.
I’ve been saying it for years-our industry has been ripe for so long to be investigated that it stinks!
Wait until the Feds get into looking at and investigating the accounting practices of the major insurance companies. Huge earnings and profits are hidden and greatly reduced and diminished by the companies infusing their reserve accounts- they then beef up the liability side of their balance sheets all the while earning investment income on the reserve accounts.
These guys have got to do time and set an example once and for all that white collar corruption and greed will not be tolerated.
They can’t use the “I didn’t know” defense since Bernie Ebbers blew that one.
Hooray for the good guys!
Again, let’s not paint everyone in the industry with a broad brush. It is a shame that a few individuals with executive power can have a negative influence on subordinates who otherwise are people of extreme integrity and honesty.
Coming from a small company less than $10M of written premium, I was always wondering how the big giant carriers could always hit “their numbers” and not show an extreme amount of volatility from one period to the next. Looks like I found my answer, in off-shore reinsurance recoverables.
As for liability setting, I would much rather see a carrier set appropriate loss reserve levels. I sure hate it when they don’t and I’m assessed with the resulting mop up from the guarantee fund and I have to include their low rate marketing fiascos into my current rates.
Its amaizing how wide and deap this junk goes. Stand by…its not just the Fortune 500 that fall under the spell of unlimited wealth and power. The are lots of our country folks that now think the crime is not doing bad things its getting caught doing bad things. From “I am not a crook” to “I smoked but did not inhale or have sex with that woman” the leaders we are trained to look up to all have feet of clay. Look around you. We have seen the enemy and the enemy is us. Its just time to do right and show our children how right is done not how might is done.
SMALL CO. GUY
I like your post, I think it is people like you who are the “cement” that built this business and in the long run will be able to hold it together. Been with one of the “Big Broker’s” 30 yr’s (small town agent last 5 yrs.) and have learned to love and respect, what is like doing business on a “handshake” again. I only hope that other Carriers and Brokers learn a lesson from the AG NY investigation and the industry’s “Black Eye” is temp.
Jim,I dont’ disagee but
I have been around long enough and as we used to say in the UNMC “upfront and personel” with some of these people. Greed may be a factor but IMHO it’s much more ego at this point in time that has cased the problems.
CO. MAN,
I am holding stock in AIG, MMC, AOC, WSH, and AJG and I AGREE WITH YOU, but the important thing to keep faith in is once the “Hanging” is over these companies will come back. I can only pray this expierence will have taught them they are a limited amount of providers to service a limited amount of buyers and they will have a limited playing field to work on. The Regionals and the Local’s (with Integrety] willing to compete in the long run, will grow and win.
Nothing I can add here except, AMEN
I can understand previous posts and reactions to the AIG investigation. Still at the end of all this, whether we like it or not, AIG has great management (with some exceptions) and a unique brand name.
So they may re-state results by $ 3B? Mr. Greenberg still deserves the credit for building a superb organization with $ 170B in market cap. Every organization I know has issues its executives would prefer not to read about in the papers. The Spitzers of this world are excellent at discovering them (would they be as good at creating great companies?), especially when the subject of the investigation has a high profile CEO. Mr. Greenberg is gone, results will be restated to provide Mr. Sullivan with a clean start, and AIG will continue to be a superb company for many years. Unfortunately for Hank, he doesn’t get the ending he always dreamed about (and in my opinion, deserves.)
Give Mr. Greenberg a real smooch there, Insurance Person. Sounds like you work for the publicity department of AIG. Greenberg “deserves” to hang. The fitting punishment would be for the millions he “deserves” to be forfeited and his gnarly arse jailed. He’s been a creep for 40 years and it finally caught up with him. AIG always had a certain “attitude” and it was an extension of Mr. Greenberg’s personality. Always a “take-it-or-leave-it” sort of way. Business men who treat their staff and their company as if they can do no wrong “deserve” everything they get when they fall.
Greed does not suck, dishonesty does. Nothing wrong with wanting more of the same (in fact that dries Capitalism). It is always wrong however to do it illegally, or unethically.
Mr. Insurance Person,
Your comments suggest that “The Ends Justify the Means” with regards to AIG’s questionable accounting practices. I wonder if the investors of Enron have the same opinion. I doubt that very much since investors lost millions. Granted the Enron situation is some what different, however haven’t you learned that even the biggest companies can fall, and fall hard? When all is said and done AIG’s investors and customers are left holding the bag.
How many of you high and mighty critics use AIG for your insurance placements? Is it Lexington and their non-admitted coverage? National Union and the money losing D&O market? How about Environmental Insurance? Need capacity? You probably involved American Home, Starr Excess or Lexington, most everyone does!
I only wish that AIG would tell the industry that it was only writing business on it’s terms, charged every agent and insured an underwriting fee to consider their risk (that would eliminate mass marketing of every account to as many carriers as can be found via email in the ever popular broker hunt for lowest possible price and broadest coverage. Now you would have to know your markets and choose intelligently), and removed themselves from unprofitable lines of business. Wouldn’t that be great! You would all have a bunch of underinsured and disgruntled customers. Oh yeah, the Errors and Omissions suits would come in too, without AIG THAT market would dry up as well. Hallelujah!
The insurance market is anything but efficient: our industry overpays our agents and brokers, undercharges our policyholders, tolerates regulatory stupidity, accepts legislative apathy and then gets to be flayed in public.
Insurance…gotta love it!
ok,ok. it aint gonna change. well, it will change a little more,going the same way its been in past few years– us agents will do more work,get less commission,have to TRAINe more underwriters and be stuck with high reserves on claims. we will be be-rated because of lack of production, loss ratios being to high,be covered up with “new products”, changes in policy language,argue with adjusters— WHY, because of the IVORY TOWER MENTALITY at most of the companies,squeeze the agents. 1971 I went to hartford with Aetna agents school right out of college, to learn “the business”,owned my own agency ,sold my agency,now run one with revenues in the millions for someone else– i have seen it all….INA,HOME,AETNA– WHERE ARE THEY NOW?THE SUN WILL COME UP TOMORROW AND WE WILL HAVE THE SAME OLD SITUATIONS ,JUST DIFFERENT FACES.gotta put up with it all, if you dont have the gold you dont have the rule….smell the roses,its still a fun business….
Well there tired of hearing it all, it appears you are not an Agent. Overpaying the Agents? When the companies stick us with rating and issuing policies, when do they kick in the increased commission for the extra time we have to spend doing their work? Or do they share the realized savings by not hiring an Underwriter? It’s like we have become the ATMs of the Insurance World.
Can anybody tell me is it enron Or arthur anderson story repeated? Shall AIG go in the same way as Enron?